Manchester blast
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-40007886.
I'm from there. It shouldn't make a difference. I doubt anyone I know was there, but.....
Most of the concertgoers were kids. Fucking awful.
Each attendee should get a full refund of their ticket price AND a free ticket* to another concert of their choosing**. That way those who were kiled will not have died for nothing.
* Good only at the same location.
** Just in case the suicide bomber was a disgruntled Ariana Grande fan.
How something like this could happen in a country that has a moat around it I can't imagine. OTOH, a moat is not a wall.
Too soon?
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-40007886.
I'm from there. It shouldn't make a difference. I doubt anyone I know was there, but.....
It does hit harder at home, sorry.
How something like this could happen in a country that has a moat around it I can't imagine. OTOH, a moat is not a wall.
Most, all? recent terror attacks are perpetrated by citizens/ resisdents.
ISIS radicalizes people at home via youtube etc, they are not agents sent in from outside any more, that's out dated rhetoric.
He was referring to how Trump's wall would prevent that from happening here, which is of course as ridiculous a premise as the channel would prevent it there. ;)
Britian was once protected by a moat. So terrorists built a Chunnel - defeating that protection.
He was referring to how Trump's wall would prevent that from happening here, which is of course as ridiculous a premise as the channel would prevent it there. ;)
I was referring to the Great Wall of China.
Most, all? recent terror attacks are perpetrated by citizens/ resisdents.
ISIS radicalizes people at home via youtube etc, they are not agents sent in from outside any more, that's out dated rhetoric.
So it's largely
domestic terrorism. Those citizens/residents must be very unhappy with their home. You'd think BREXIT would have cheered them up by now. I guess you just can't please some people. All in all a small price to pay for personal freedom though. You don't want Britain to become like China.
You'd think BREXIT would have cheered them up by now.
Hark! An EU terrorist attacking the heartland of Brexit. It makes complete sense. Why did political spin doctors not know it first?
I went to work today and a lass from my team was desperately trying to get word of her friend who took his kid sister to the concert. He wasn't answering his phone, he wasn't responding to texts.
She eventually heard from him about 2pm - his phone had powered down. He and his sister had stayed in Manchester overnight as they couldn't get a train back to Yorkshire.
Something I find very, very sad in all this, is that the bomber was only 22. He was barely a grown up himself. I'm sure he felt very grown up. A year younger than my eldest niece.
He took a couple of steps from the nest and ...
Angry and violent young men (mainly) who for whatever reason feel the world is against them, or that their parents don't understand them, or that life needs some greater meaning than it has, have always been vulnerable to extremist recruitment and/or influence. They're also vulnerable to a bunch of other stuff, like depression and suicide.
IS and their ilk are insidious. The mechanisms they employ in recruitment, whether to formal engagement or informal association, are highly sophisticated and very effectively calibrated for their target groups.
They only need to reach a handful of kids to cause unbelievable harm - both in terms of casualties and in terms of social cohesion.
And we play their game - every time we tweet or post a facebook comment that points the finger at muslims in general, we read the script they penned for us. We feed straight back into that recruitment machine.
In case you hadn't guessed from the above: I made the mistake of reading some youtube comments underneath a clip of James Corden's piece about the bombing. Just made me feel even angrier. Do they think they have more right to their outrage than Mancunian muslims? Are they more personally affected by this horror than the mostly muslim taxi drivers who ferried people about Manchester all night, for free, getting kids back to worried parents? How about the muslim concert goers?
Fucking hell, man. What a mess. 22 dead, 59 injured, and how many traumatised for life? How do you explain something like this to those kids?
You just have to explain to them how much more their concert tickets would cost to pay for proper security screening and how much longer they would have to stand in line for everyone to get screened. I'm sure they'd agree that taking their chances on what happened was the better option.
While you're at it, tell them how lucky they were that NHS support wasn't taken down by hackers at the same time; because, NHS is still running Windows XP with all its vulnerabilities. Point out how much they're saving on taxes by not upgrading.
You just have to say what the young people are wanting to hear, that you're saving them money; then, they'll calm down and everything will be hunky-dory.
Angry and violent young men (mainly) who for whatever reason feel the world is against them, or that their parents don't understand them, or that life needs some greater meaning than it has, have always been vulnerable to extremist recruitment and/or influence. They're also vulnerable to a bunch of other stuff, like depression and suicide.
Christian/atheist/FSM youth who feel alienated commit suicide. Muslim youth become suicide bombers, either to kill some of the white devils that caused their problems, or in hope of the virgins and respect from the Muslim community.
Christian/atheist/FSM youth who feel alienated commit suicide.
Or shoot up a school, or join a far right group, or take out their frustrations on young women.
If a far right group espoused suicide bombing some of them would do that. In the 70s it probably would have been left wing terrorists.
The ideology of militant islamists is profoundly dangerous because of the level of destruction their followers and supporters aim for - but the mechanisms at play are the same as they ever were.
Facebook has become a nice recruiting tool for nutters. It all goes back to the failure of our education system. The localized extremists who should have slowly been extinguished by reality now have a larger platform for hate. I'm expecting much more trouble with homegrown nuts as they expand their meat world bubbles into digital. I guess the Feds can monitor them more easily this way.
The localized extremists who should have slowly been extinguished by reality now have a larger platform for hate. .
I think you've nailed the reason why this kind of extremism is so persistent. When you look at the various revolutionary, and pseudo revolutionary movements in modern history, they mostly fizzle out or crash and burn, with just a handful rumbling along at a very local level. Look at the left wing revolution-inspired terrorism of the 70s.
Revolutionary movements have generally had at their core the seeds of their on destruction - either they succeed and become the establishment against which others revolt, or the new tomorrow fails to materialise and the troops get bored, grow up, lose faith and move on.
The IS model is kind of ingenious. They've successfully utilised modern technology to make their impact global, and have agents in every country and to maintain a startling air of immediacy and relevance.
Compare their reach and impact to the communist extremists who also had a global agenda and the difference is frightening.
I have right wing Christians in my bacefook feed. I'm often left wondering, do they know what they're saying? Is this a fantasy or an alternate reality they're describing? The words are the same as you get from crackpot Islamists but how many would take it to the next level?
...or take out their frustrations on young women.
Most of their frustrations are caused by young women, or the lack thereof, if they were getting laid they wouldn't have time to kill people.
In this case "fuck 'em" is not a dismissal, but the solution.
C'mon girls, for your community, for your country. :haha:
Or shoot up a school
Every time that happens here we are told it is a simple and obvious gun control issue.
Or bullying.
Or mental health infrastructure.
Or many other root cause discussions.
It think you'd be hard pressed to find a school shooting where coverage didn't include more than gun control.
Gun control is about harm reduction; it's a different topic from root causes. Both harm reduction and root causes should be addressed. You're never going to do well enough on root causes to prevent all incidents, and you're never going to reduce the damage from any incidents to the point where root causes are moot.
Every time that happens here we are told it is a simple and obvious gun control issue.
Or bullying.
Or mental health infrastructure.
Or many other root cause discussions.
It think you'd be hard pressed to find a school shooting where coverage didn't include more than gun control.
Gun control is about harm reduction; it's a different topic from root causes. Both harm reduction and root causes should be addressed. You're never going to do well enough on root causes to prevent all incidents, and you're never going to reduce the damage from any incidents to the point where root causes are moot.
And here we have the real problem: left-wing elites bullying well-intentioned patriots with troublesome nuance.
JUST LET ME BE MAD AT A SIMPLE PROBLEM SO I CAN YELL IT AWAY.
You're both making good points, but only one of you is talking about stuff that can improve the situation.
You're both making good points, but only one of you is talking about stuff that can improve the situation.
That's one way to look at it, but have you considered that if Liberals would just SHUT UP, all the problems would just go away by themselves? You know, like problems do.
Most of their frustrations are caused by young women, or the lack thereof, if they were getting laid they wouldn't have time to kill people.
In this case "fuck 'em" is not a dismissal, but the solution.
C'mon girls, for your community, for your country. :haha:
Could it be that suicide bombers expecting to get 72 virgins in heaven are now selecting venues where they can choose some virgins to take along with them?
And here we have the real problem: left-wing elites bullying well-intentioned patriots with troublesome nuance.
JUST LET ME BE MAD AT A SIMPLE PROBLEM SO I CAN YELL IT AWAY.
Oh I forgot you were here! See you in July, everyone.
That's one way to look at it, but have you considered that if Liberals would just SHUT UP, all the problems would just go away by themselves? You know, like problems do.
Have
any of you ever considered that if you quit separating yourselves according to left, right, liberal, conservative and focus on fixing the goddamn problems you're bitching about, instead of looking for whom to blame it on, or who the reason is we can't fix it, or who caused it and why, or why we should fix it this way and not your stupid, retarded way, that something might actually get done?
This why I refrain from politics, and it's why I hate people.
Yeah. I have. I try to be mindful of the more important ideas and not just the shiny / loud / popular ideas. I have some success. I definitely have room for improvement.
It's also often the case that the right thing to do / right way to view an issue is also satisfying. Sometimes it's right to call out the other side and challenge them on the facts.
I don't hate or love politics. I accept the fact that political considerations are often unavoidable. Sometimes they're present but merely in the way. Sometimes they're part of the problem, maybe a big part.
Have any of you ever considered that if you quit separating yourselves according to left, right, liberal, conservative and focus on fixing the goddamn problems you're bitching about, instead of looking for whom to blame it on, or who the reason is we can't fix it, or who caused it and why, or why we should fix it this way and not your stupid, retarded way, that something might actually get done?
Yes but I gave up when I realised you'll thwart me at every turn. If I get an idea and want to discuss it, you run off to bucket night, or the river. :mecry:
so to get back on track.....
This
She's 91, you know
and this
they say it allWe've just had a vicious attack on some of the most vulnerable of our population too. Fortunately, no one was killed or injured.
[ATTACH]60638[/ATTACH]
LAS VEGAS (AP) — A man wearing body armor and a mask backed a tractor-trailer through the gate of the Moonlite Bunny Ranch before dawn Thursday and crashed it into the front door of the famed Nevada brothel featured in the CatHouse reality television show, according to authorities and the brothel's owner.
Brian Brandt, 40, of Reno, was arrested and faces charges of assault with a deadly weapon, property destruction and possession of stolen property, the Lyon County Sheriff's office said.
Brothel owner Dennis Hof said none of the five employees, 30 female prostitutes and 10 customers inside at the time were hurt when the crash happened just after 4 a.m.
The impact of the truck crashing into the building scared them and sounded "like a bomb going off," Hof said, causing what he estimated at $400,000 damage.
Hof said the suspect was wearing full body armor and a mask. He said he did not know Brandt and none of the people working at the brothel did.
The truck with a bright yellow cab had been stolen from a northern Nevada terminal of Michigan-based Central Transport hours before it crashed into the brothel, said Mickey Blashfield, a company spokesman. ...
You live in a neighborhood where the feral dog population is growing...a number of folks have been injuried -- some killed -- by these dogs...after each attack, vocal folks in the neighborhood make a big show about how 'we can't let these dogs change the way we conduct our lives!' and how 'we must be united!', but not one person lifts a finger to ring the animal control folks, or to just pick up and carry a baseball bat when goin' out.
Animal control, of course, has a pretty good bead on the dogs but is largely hobbled in its efforts to exterminate them by animal rights bastids who make a big stink anytime anyone even thinks about killing the animals...'you're a speciesist!' they shriek.
So, the ferals keep eatin' babies and old folks, folks keep jibber-jabberin', nuthin' really gets done.
The Hebrews had/have a solution for this crap: 'If you know someone is coming to kill you, get up early and go kill them first'.
Seems to me: we're well past the crack of dawn on this, their intent is crystal, 'diplomacy' (bribery) has been tried (and has failed)...time to kill some people.
Did Fox News also say that!? Wow. They need Ailes back to restore 'fair and honest'.
but not one person lifts a finger to ring the animal control folks, or to just pick up and carry a baseball bat when goin' out.
Except that they did.
Several members of the community, including members of the bomber's own family reported him to the anti-radicalisation unit as a potential danger.
He was investigated and deemed to be only peripherally involved in radicalism and not an imminent danger.
Seems to me: we're well past the crack of dawn on this, their intent is crystal, 'diplomacy' (bribery) has been tried (and has failed)...time to kill some people.
Off you go, see how that works for you.
Or were you expecting the Government to do that for you.
What I expect is for our employees to put law-abiding citizens first, and to eliminate threats to those citizens (the folks who pay the bills).
What I get is a lotta noise from folks who, for some godamned reason, wanna hesitate and shuffle their feet and not do much else.
As for my neighborhood: I do what I can.
What about you?
#
"He was investigated and deemed to be only peripherally involved in radicalism and not an imminent danger."
Yeah, that seems to be the story over and over. Seems like, at some point, folks would say 'okay, the last ten violent acts were done by persons only peripherally involved in radicalism and not an imminent danger, so mebbe we need to redefine our terms, lower the bar, tolerate less'.
tw, what the holy fuck does fox news have to do with anything?
tw, what the holy fuck does fox news have to do with anything?
It explains your attitude. And contempt for honesty and facts.
Since you have none, it also explains your excessive use of irrelevant and profane adjectives. And your love of violence.
What I expect is for our employees to put law-abiding citizens first, and to eliminate threats to those citizens (the folks who pay the bills).
The Manchester bomber was a citizen and, as far as I know, a law abiding one until this incident.
"He was investigated and deemed to be only peripherally involved in radicalism and not an imminent danger."
Yeah, that seems to be the story over and over. Seems like, at some point, folks would say 'okay, the last ten violent acts were done by persons only peripherally involved in radicalism and not an imminent danger, so mebbe we need to redefine our terms, lower the bar, tolerate less'.
The last ones that succeeded. Investigators have to do triage, and if the ones that they do consider to be a threat end up not making the news, that's probably in their favor.
Do you want to pay for an agency to put permanent surveillance on everyone who has ever shown up on their radar?
Would you want them to be able to do that, even if there were no monetary cost?
Or are you just advocating skipping the surveillance and imprisoning or killing people without evidence? Evidence against one [insert ethnicity/religion/etc] is evidence against all?
What facts have I ignored, tw?
#
HM, I don't have all the solutions. Just seems to me what our employees are doin' now isn't succeeding well enough, often enough.
We don't know if they stopped any, stopped 99 or stopped 999.
I wonder if one of these horrific incidents prompts more people who didn't want to get involved to come forward? Of course that can be a double edged sword. Cops may get useful pertinent information but may increase the static from paranoid people whose neighbor only hangs wash out on even numbered days.
From the Mirror
Mr Ramadan, 49, part of the close-knit Libyan community in south Manchester, said the incident unfolded at Didsbury Mosque.
"There was a sermon about anti- Daesh (IS) and he stood up and started calling the Imam - 'You are talking b*****ks," he said.
"And he gave a good stare, a threatening stare into the Imam's eyes,
"He was banned."
I'm glad to hear some mosques are trying to discredit isis.
On the topic
As the picture demonstrates, police are now accompanied by an armed soldier ... and apparently by Superman.
From the Mirror
I'm glad to hear some mosques are trying to discredit isis.
I think most probably do try to discredit IS and speak against extremism. I think there are a few hotbeds of activity - Finsbury Park mosque was one the most infamous for a while, but they seem to have gone to a lot of effort to reform since Abu Hamza went.
I daresay a majority of imams would really like these fuckers to stop polluting their faith with their dangerous notions.
It doesn't take a huge number of extremists, and it doesn't take a huge number of sympathetic mosques or community leaders to cause a lot of problems, about which the peaceful majority are unable to do very much.
Back when I was a councillor, I had to engage with various community leaders,and there didn't seem to me to be a massive difference between the attitudes and concerns of local imams and the attitudes and concerns of local vicars. The guys who ran the muslim community centre youth group were just as determined as the Church of England youth club organiser was to get young lads off the street and onto the five-a-side football pitch.
There were some cultural differences, no doubt, particularly in some parts of the muslim community, where the percentage of people who were born and raised in Pakistan or Kashmir was much higher than in other parts of the community, but in general they just seemed to want the same basic shit everyone else wanted.
... It doesn't take a huge number of extremists, and it doesn't take a huge number of sympathetic mosques or community leaders to cause a lot of problems, about which the peaceful majority are unable to do very much.
[Bold mine]
My impression is that it's only because
the English won't let them.
A grassroots unarmed anti-terrorism movement modeled on
similar anti-crime movements could significantly reduce the impact of terrorist attacks.
Unfortunately, the English mentality of a passive citizenry that leaves their personal safety to the government,
in the hands of professionals, has undermined such grassroots organization; so, there's nothing left to be adapted from anti-crime to anti-terrorism let alone incentive to start from scratch.
This also applies to Manchester which while it didn't deserve what happened and didn't want it to happen; nonetheless, was an enabler by just being English.
Now you know and knowing is half the battle. MI6 probably just shakes its head at MI5 and a docile citizenry that doesn't care to change it.
If only we could find something that linked all the health problems of the poor together.....
Air, every one of those terrorists breath air. Probably drink water too, but that's not a given. I'll bet every one of the perverts showers nude. :yesnod:
Penises. Every single one of those violent fuckers has a penis.
The brainwashed must do a pathetic god's bidding. Because a feeble god cannot do its own slaying. Why would anyone worship something so pathetic? Brainwashing. It works on adults who are still children.
An adult would have found a new argument by now.
An adult would have found a new argument by now.
Children learn by the rote method. Repeating reality is necessary. Eventually you will grasp it - or grow up.
A grassroots unarmed anti-terrorism movement modeled on similar anti-crime movements could significantly reduce the impact of terrorist attacks.
That link got blocked at work for the following reasons : " Access to the requested website has been blocked because it is currently categorized as: Political/Social Advocacy;Suspicious"
And you shouldn't forget that it is also a money problem. I guess the costs of super surveillance is far too high considering the effect...
I'm always reminded about the first meeting btw Taylor Durden and the Narrator.
And then again : 22 deaths and 64 seriously injured... How many people die in the UK every year because they are neglected or forgotten, because they can't afford the medical care they need, of hunger, of drugs, because due to pressure and greed they can't respect basic security and safety instructions, or just by Murphy's Law, by drunken drivers or crime??? Guess how many children are born everyday already drug addicted because their mother was, how many children are chronically sick because their parents are smoking in their presence, how many children are indoctrinated by conspiracy theorists and bad cartoons, how many children are molested and bullied everyday and turn into monsters later on...
So terrorism was always present and if not then we were fighting wars. I think we are overrating terrorist attacks and should concentrate more on other problems...
You almost make it sound as though terrorist attacks are doing the British a favor by culling it's population.
That link got blocked at work for the following reasons : " Access to the requested website has been blocked because it is currently categorized as: Political/Social Advocacy;Suspicious"
And you shouldn't forget that it is also a money problem. I guess the costs of super surveillance is far too high considering the effect...
I'm always reminded about the first meeting btw Taylor Durden and the Narrator.
And then again : 22 deaths and 64 seriously injured... How many people die in the UK every year because they are neglected or forgotten, because they can't afford the medical care they need, of hunger, of drugs, because due to pressure and greed they can't respect basic security and safety instructions, or just by Murphy's Law, by drunken drivers or crime??? Guess how many children are born everyday already drug addicted because their mother was, how many children are chronically sick because their parents are smoking in their presence, how many children are indoctrinated by conspiracy theorists and bad cartoons, how many children are molested and bullied everyday and turn into monsters later on...
So terrorism was always present and if not then we were fighting wars.[SIZE="7"] I think we are overrating terrorist attacks and should concentrate more on other problems...[/SIZE]
You're correct.
I agree with you.
Relative to many other risks, risks I blithely undertake every day, harm or death from terrorism is almost impossibly unlikely.
The US had warned the Brits about this guy in January, not just as another suspect but a bad guy with a mission in the works.
Well they found a dandy way to get rid of him: let him blow himself up. Now they can devote the resources it would have taken to stop him to other causes. I'm sure the people of Manchester were on board with this luck of the draw approach as to where it might happen. After all, the odds were in their favor.
If you're not going to spend the money to fix all the problems, it makes sense to tackle the biggest hazards/killers in the country.
If that means none or little money to thwart terrorists, it won't be long before it climbs to the top of the charts... with a bullet.
[YOUTUBE]UQ89ygc36EA[/YOUTUBE]
Beeee good to each other!
Very nice, excellent, excellent.
Who's going to get a bee tattoo?
[SIZE="4"]Why thousands of people in Manchester are getting bee tattoos[/SIZE]
If you do, don't have a crown tattooed over it. People would think you defected to France!
A couple of my cousins kids have had them done. Most of my extended family are in and around Manchester.
I was wondering abut those bees.
Now I know.
They could do like Chicago, have so many gangs killing so many people that terrorists are afraid to go there.
and now London :(
It's like Sundae left and the whole place went to hell.:(
No, no, no. The Mancs are getting a star-studded free concert out of their terrorist attack. Londoners want to get a free concert too.
Too soon?
I got the train over to Todmorden to see J yesterday. As I was boarding the train there was a message playing over the tannoy about what to do if you see anything suspicious.
Reminded me of the IRA days.
You'd think someone would say enough is enough and put their foot down.
I got the train over to Todmorden to see J yesterday. As I was boarding the train there was a message playing over the tannoy about what to do if you see anything suspicious.
Reminded me of the IRA days.
that's exactly how I felt. Remembering that we never needed to do fire drills for most of my high school years because there were so many bomb scares we had it down..... :(
A football fan reportedly yelled “F**k you, I’m Millwall” as he single-handedly took on the three knife-wielding London terror attackers armed with nothing more than his fists.
Roy Larner has already been hailed a hero, with a petition launched for him to be awarded the George Cross medal for his actions in the Black and Blue steakhouse on Saturday night.
In fighting back, the 47-year-old Millwall fan gave dozens of others who were in the Borough Market restaurant the chance to escape.
Now out of the intensive care ward of St Thomas’ Hospital, where he was treated for knife wounds all over his body including his neck, the father-of-one has told The Sun how he reacted when the killers burst into the restaurant shouting “Islam, Islam” and “This is for Allah”.
“Like an idiot,” he told the newspaper, “I shouted back at them. I thought, ‘I need to take the p*** out of these b******s’.” “I took a few steps towards them and said, ‘F*** you, I’m Millwall’. So they started attacking me.” “I stood in front of them trying to fight them off. Everyone else ran to the back. “I was on my own against all three of them, that’s why I got hurt so much. “It was just me, trying to grab them with my bare hands and hold on. I was swinging. “I got stabbed and sliced eight times. They got me in my head, chest and both hands. There was blood everywhere. “They were saying, ‘Islam, Islam!’. I said again, ‘F*** you, I’m Millwall!’ “It was the worst thing I could have done as they carried on attacking me. “Luckily, none of the blows were straight at me or I’d be dead.”
As he recovered in hospital, Mr Larner’s friends have brought him a running magazine. The front cover headline reads: “Learn to run.”
Fuck you I'm Millwall.
Classic
Trump has right royally pissed off many Brits with his Twitter war against the Mayor of London. Seriously, not the fucking time, man.
Good on Roy.
My President is unhinged.
A reallygood speech from the Leader of the Opposition and candidate for PM, shortly after the Manchester bomb
[YOUTUBE]lWs8aHwetfI[/YOUTUBE]
Fuck you I'm Millwall.
Indeed.:devil:
"The Lion Of London Bridge"...That is awesome.
And
fuck running. Away, I mean. Running away is right out.
If limpdicks like these three were torn to fucking pieces by the people they were trying to kill/terrorize [COLOR="LemonChiffon"]and buried in a vat of bacon grease,[/COLOR] this shit would calm down a bit.
The police response was incredibly fast. 8 minutes from the first 999 call to all three terrorists dead.
"Fuck you I'm Millwall" is awesome. For the first time ever. :lol:
...and I love the magazine touch
The police response was incredibly fast. 8 minutes from the first 999 call to all three terrorists dead.
"Fuck you I'm Millwall" is awesome. For the first time ever. :lol:
...and I love the magazine touch
Eight minutes! A lot can happen in eight minutes. Run or become a sliced and diced celebrity! Yeah, no. I'll take the
Texas solution.
Indeed.:devil:
"The Lion Of London Bridge"...That is awesome.
And fuck running. Away, I mean. Running away is right out.
If limpdicks like these three were torn to fucking pieces by the people they were trying to kill/terrorize [COLOR="LemonChiffon"]and buried in a vat of bacon grease,[/COLOR] this shit would calm down a bit.
Ok, lemme ask you, at what point do you run away? Four knives? Eleven? I'm not from Sparta. There probably is a number I think. Make them catch me.
Of course the circumstances matter. If I'm between the knives and my children, "Running away
is right out."
A Millwall fan with a gun would be scary
Ok, lemme ask you, at what point do you run away? Four knives? Eleven? I'm not from Sparta. There probably is a number I think. Make them catch me.
Of course the circumstances matter. If I'm between the knives and my children, "Running away is right out."
Well, you get to tell St. Peter it took three/four/eleven of them to get ya.
I'm not sure I could live with myself if I ran. Then again, I don't got that much to live for anyway. May be the ol' fight-or-flight acting up.
I didn't know how many it was gonna take to whoop mah ass...but I knew how many they were gonna use.
~Ron White:lol2:
Running away is probably a better option given the potential for an attacker to have explosives on them.
Running away allows the police more space to do their job. They can't open fire on a terrorist if they're surrounded by civilians.
A little push back on the not running, I see.
Ya don't have to stand yer ground. You are perfectly free to be just another victim.
Myself, though, Ima die fighting back, thanks.
I think the general idea is to minimise the number of casualties as much as possible.
There may be circumstances where running isn't an option - or where by not running you might be able to help someone else, or slow down the attackers - but in general I think most people getting out of the way so the police can do their thing is probably a good idea.
The people who did fight back probably saved some others' lives, and they clearly slowed their progress which was no doubt a good thing - but I think it's probably also a good thing that it wasn't more people fighting them - because at that point, what's needed is a clear shot.
I see no problem, "You brought a knife to a gun fight? Fuck you, I'm an American!" :apistola:
Running away is probably a better option given the potential for an attacker to have explosives on them.
Running away allows the police more space to do their job. They can't open fire on a terrorist if they're surrounded by civilians.
You can't outrun an explosion any more than you can outrun a bullet. If you had said run to immediate cover that would stop a bullet or shrapnel, I could buy it. Most people don't have the presence of mind to do that. They just panic and run even if that makes the situation worse.
Taking out terrorists imbedded in a crowd is exactly what antiterrorist operatives are trained to do. The inadequate level of proficiency the typical police officer has to do that is why we reserve the right to do it ourselves.
I would say that the inadequacy of proficiency of the typical police officer is dwarfed by the inadequacy of the typical member of "ourselves" .
I think you've slyly changed definitions of "ourselves" in your post there. First you suggest the people who run are thoughtlessly increasing the hazard by running. Then by the end you say we, ourselves can do better. Which is it?
You can't outrun an explosion any more than you can outrun a bullet. .
You can remove yourself from the immediate area (hopefully) and reduce the chances of being caught in the blast should that explosive belt go off.
... First you suggest the people who run are thoughtlessly increasing the hazard by running. Then by the end you say we, ourselves can do better. Which is it?
Both. If you have time to run, you have time to counterattack. Running will be expected. Attackers can optimize their plans around it. Counterattack has the element of surprise. The best chance of minimizing casualties is with the latter . The exception is when facing overwhelming numbers. Then it's best to break contact by creating distance. That's a situation in which even a slim chance is better than none at all. When most people run: however, it's because they don't know how to do anything else. Most aren't inclined to learn either.
You can remove yourself from the immediate area (hopefully) and reduce the chances of being caught in the blast should that explosive belt go off.
Those planning on using explosives don't generally tip their hand to give people a chance to run. It would be counter productive. Should it happen, be sure to post it in monster's Idiot of The Day thread.
Both. If you have time to run, you have time to counterattack. Running will be expected. Attackers can optimize their plans around it. Counterattack has the element of surprise. The best chance of minimizing casualties is with the latter . The exception is when facing overwhelming numbers. Then it's best to break contact by creating distance. That's a situation in which even a slim chance is better than none at all. When most people run: however, it's because they don't know how to do anything else. Most aren't inclined to learn either.
That's a good point.
I would however point out that Londoners (and most major city dwellers) have been asked, and advised in the strongest terms, in the event of an incident: run, hide and tell. Get away from the centre of violence if you can. Take cover as best you can. Contact the emergency services asap.
If you watch the footage - much of that running away was not a panicked mob - some people were still carrying their drinks. Closer to where the violence was unfolding, there was more panic - but at that stage, what you have is a state of confusion of what the attack actually is - do they have guns, how many of them are there, is someone going to detonate explosives. So close to the Manchester bombing where a suicide bomber detonated his backpack in a crowd of people.
Those planning on using explosives don't generally tip their hand to give people a chance to run. It would be counter productive. Should it happen, be sure to post it in monster's Idiot of The Day thread.
Well, there was a van packed to the gills with molatov cocktails and other goodies to which they clearly intended to return - and the people on the ground at the time would have been able to clearly see that the attackers were wearing what looked like belts of explosive canisters.
A former soldier might have enough experience of battlefield thinking to make a quick determination of whether that belt is likely to be a bluff in a particular situation, but your average civilian really isn't going to be able to make that call.
Who the fuck knows what is going on in the mind of the person wearing that belt - if it's a bomb belt, are they waiting for a signal/? Are they waiting to coordinate attacks? are they waiting until they are about to be captured so they can detonate it rather than be taken alive?
There are all sorts of reasons an attacker might not immediately detonate a bomb.
Since you clearly have no intention of fighting your attackers, you're just going to have to outsmart them (*shudder*). All British citizens shall have to wear fake explosive belts to confuse the terrorists. There's additional benefit in growing accustomed to seeing the belts. Citizens won't panic so they'll be better able to run, hide and tell.
I do hope you realize "run, hide and tell" feeds terrorists' egos. You have to psych them out by saying "execute tactical withdrawal" otherwise they'll just think you want to play hide and seek with them.
Yes, yes, that's it. Wear fake explosive belts and execute tactical withdrawals. The strategic principle being that when faced with a wolf in sheep's clothing, be a sheep in wolf's clothing. I should write a book: Counterterrorism for British Civilians.
The minority in the fuel supply is the 8 dead people were 1 Canadian, 2 Australians, 1 Londoner, 4 Frenchmen, and 1 Spaniard. :eyebrow:
You make a point that why should Londoners do anything if it's mostly a bunch of furriners who are going to get aced.
I'm kinda done with this conversation.
If it's of any consolation, the simple majority here would agree with the way you're doing things. Of course, their leadership got shitcanned in the last presidential election. The framers of our constitution knew that a simple majority will often take the easy way out for themselves; so, we have built in safeguards. But hey, if it works for you, more power to you as long as you're all playing on a level field. It's just not my cup of tea.
If it's of any consolation, the simple majority here would agree with the way you're doing things. Of course, their leadership got shitcanned in the last presidential election. The framers of our constitution knew that a simple majority will often take the easy way out for themselves; so, we have built in safeguards. But hey, if it works for you, more power to you as long as you're all playing on a level field. It's just not my cup of tea.
So if it's any consolation you think many of your own people are pathetic cowardly sheep like ours?
Get fucked sexobon.
Most certainly.
&
You sweet talker, you.
So if it's any consolation you think many of your own people are pathetic cowardly sheep like ours?
Well, many of our people
are pathetic, cowardly sheep.
I don't know if they're like
yours, or not...They speak differently, for one thing.;)
Oh wait. Citizens aren't allowed to be armed there... never mind.
Wow, that's in poor taste.
You know I don't get offended much - I'm not a special fucking snowflake- I certainly don't take things personally in here when dwellars have a dig, because that's what we do - but on this occasion: fuck the lot of y'alls.
Sorry, I was aiming in another direction. Wasn't meant to offend. Seemed more like a summation of the recent posts in this thread.
'S ok. I totally over reacted.
Can't recall if I posted this already, but can't be arsed looking :P
I went looking for a Last Leg piece on today's remembrances of Jo Cox, the labour MP who was killed by a politically motivated nutjob as she left her constituency surgery - (The theme of the show is Reunited Britain - choose love) it's not on youtube yet, but I came across this that made me smile. From shortly after the Manchester bombing)
[YOUTUBE]4C4o1rLtaB4[/YOUTUBE]