Politics is the new Religion
Promising two alternate realities, one heaven the other hell, based on whom you worship
True believers hanging on long speeches from on high explaining what they should think
Supporters spreading the good word and writing checks for the collection plate
Does that make an abstaining voter a political atheist or agnostic?
there's not enough information to determine. some abstain because they don't believe, your atheists. henry quirk is a good example we both "know". some believe, yet still abstain because they believe, but know better. Griff's an example of this kind of believer, he believes in the reality of the system, but not in one, true, path.
Whom you worship is almost always a product of your friends and family, and where you live, and what culture you grew up in.
Does that make an abstaining voter a political atheist or agnostic?
Or, one can be quite spiritual and still dislike Religion, or the official Religions, for what they have done to systems of belief.
Maybe those who abstain are mostly the agnostics and those who mock the system by casting a protest vote (e.g. writing in "Mickey Mouse") are the atheists. Possibly more parallels there.
I am a believer, for me it was a physical experience. I cannot deny it
Seems to me, to be a political atheist is to say 'I don't believe in politics', which is dumb cuz politics is just a kind of human interaction, and humans interacting is demonstrably real.
I like 'heretic' better but that carries (to me) a sense of active rebellion, and I just ain't the time, energy, or interest for that.
Non serviam, as declaration, works, but isn't easy to label.
Indifferent (with a clinched fist)?
Apolitical (but knowing)?
*shrug*
In the OP scenario of politics is the new religion promising two alternate realities, one heaven the other hell, based on whom you worship, I'll go with the political atheists being the ones who don't worship anyone and demonstrate it by casting protest votes as opposed to the agnostics who don't vote 'cause they don't think they have reach.
Just another way of looking at it.
New? You're behind, UT. ;)
There are always people that are going to blindly worship at the altar of the donkey or the elephant. Me? I hang with the donkeys, but I have my glasses or contacts on. Fortunately, my state Democratic party seems cool with that.
Faith.
Have faith. We will tell you what to believe. Have faith that we are informed and honest.
Westboro Baptist Church also has faith. Do I really want what they have?
Speaking as someone to whom WBC is local...I don't think they are offering faith.
WBC has faith. Faith that if they keep walking around talking in public like they do, they'll be rewarded by an assault, an act like a mustard seed which would let them move mountains of lawsuits.
For those that don't know, this place is across the street from WBC. Good people.
http://www.plantingpeace.org/equality/For those that don't know, this place is across the street from WBC.
Upwind or downwind?
Apparently upwind. That paint has not pealed from the walls.
Depends on the wind...the houses are east of the church.
Seems to me, to be a political atheist is to say 'I don't believe in politics', which is dumb cuz politics is just a kind of human interaction, and humans interacting is demonstrably real.
I like 'heretic' better but that carries (to me) a sense of active rebellion, and I just ain't the time, energy, or interest for that.
Non serviam, as declaration, works, but isn't easy to label.
Indifferent (with a clinched fist)?
Apolitical (but knowing)?
*shrug*
What is the supreme religion on this planet?
Catholicism, Protestantism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Communism, Agnosticism, Liberal, Conservative, and all the others are just subsets of the one supreme religion: The Cult of the Omnipotent State!
"Infidel" seems to be an appropriate, if negatively charged, label for one who refuses to accept the precepts of any "faith". It literally means, "one without faith", and infidels were actively hunted down and killed in the dark ages (because they tended to shed light on things that the authorities preferred to keep in the dark).
I don't take offense at being called an "infidel" because I know its real meaning. Likewise with a lot of other good words that have developed negative stereotypes over the years.
One such term is "apathetic". It literally means "not pathetic". Now, how can it be better to be "pathetic" than to be "not pathetic"?
El Veto-Voter
www.HaltVote.comWhat is the supreme religion on this planet?
Science. Science explains god's laws better than anything else. Even terrorists worship it 'teachings' - ie big guns and bombs. God did not stop sending disciples after Christ died. We all know them as Einstein, Gandhi, Newton, Mandella, Higgs, Gauss, Bardeen and Brattain.
snip-- l
One such term is "apathetic". It literally means "not pathetic". Now, how can it be better to be "pathetic" than to be "not pathetic"?
El Veto-Voter
www.HaltVote.com
Welcome to the cellar, El Veto-Voter!
I'll answer your question. It's better when the correct understanding of the word in your context is used, meaning feeling or passion or motivation. Being apathetic is to be without those qualities. And you don't strike me as apathetic. :)
Show your feeling to others.
Greek pathos meaning suffering. Greek Pathetikos meaning sensitive. Pathetic means affecting the emotions. Apathetic means not affecting the emotions. But, really, who cares?
I like those theater masks: pathos and laughos.
But, really, who cares?
I like what you did there.
regular-freakin-joe is back!
LAUGHOS, from pure happiness! Welcome back!!!!!
Apathetic Joe says, "But, really, who cares?"
Now he is gone. Since we are all apathetic (adults who are not children), then we also do not care?
What is the supreme religion on this planet?
Catholicism, Protestantism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Communism, Agnosticism, Liberal, Conservative, and all the others are just subsets of the one supreme religion: The Cult of the Omnipotent State!
What is the supreme religion on this planet?
Science. Also explains why organized religion have a long history of trying to subvert all science - the competition. Even in early 1950s when first organ transplants were attempted. And with stem cell research today. Worst case examples include wahhabism that hates and attacks the advancement of mankind - in the name of their religious beliefs.
An ironic exception is astronomy performed by the Catholic Church in, I believe, New Mexico or Arizona.
You would think great religions were searching for the God Particle. Only science went looking for it.
Einstein once believed "God does not play dice with the universe." One would think religious leaders would have chimed in or at least do research. Nope. Only science keeps addressing that religious question.
I like those theater masks: pathos and laughos.
I see what you're doing.
Isn't this why Totalitarian governments seek to abolish religion? Or so "they" say.
That's the North Korean approach: "Your God is the State now, and I am its Lord and Savior."
But there's also the "authority derived from God" approach, as in all the kingdoms... "No need to vote or anything, our family was already hand-picked by God! Lucky for us! Bless His Wonderment! And by Wonderment I mean ME!"
Have you noticed how the politically religious ignore information contrary to their chosen narrative from sources once trustworthy like say Wikileaks.
Have you noticed how the politically religious ignore information contrary to their chosen narrative from sources once trustworthy like say Wikileaks.
Examples?
Maybe politics is the new religion because it is religion?
https://www.npr.org/2020/07/08/884104509/supreme-court-undercuts-access-to-birth-control-under-obamacare
Because we all want more unwanted children and or abortions.
Religions want as many children created as possible because they all believe those children will eventually support their religion. The Republican party has jumped onto that bandwagon.
Religions also want as many existing children imported as possible because they all believe those children will eventually support their religion. The Democratic party has jumped onto that bandwagon.
Religions have to go after both to get enough since there are many religions. There are fewer political parties; so, they don't have to go after both to get enough, only one or the other.
So the purpose is to dominate mankind; not advance it?
Advancement is in the eye of the beholder. Different accomplishments make different people happy.
Not dominate just firmly control.
Advancement is in the eye of the beholder.
So Hitler advanced mankind? Where did mankind advance to?
Across France and part-way through Russia?
So the purpose is to dominate mankind; not advance it?
That's always been obvious.
Religion is and has always been a means of gathering secular power. Only this and nothing more.
So Hitler advanced mankind? ...
You can think that if you want to.
So the purpose is to dominate mankind; not advance it?
That's always been obvious. ...
Tw misses the obvious.
You can think that if you want to.
Purpose of mankind was to dominate others only when one is, for example, a slave trader, a despot, Donald Trump, or others who crave power for egotistical or pathological reasons. Sexobon has just admitred he agrees with them.
So Hitler advanced mankind? ...
You can think that if you want to. ..
You're the one who introduced the concept. I'm only acknowledging that you are free think that if you want to. You wouldn't be speculating about it unless you believed in it. That's not a reflection on what I believe. Reading comprehension tw.
I'm only acknowledging that you are free think that if you want to.
You again acquiesce to your belief: dominating others is the purpose of mankind. You cannot defend it. It is your belief - and Hitler's.
That misguided belief underlies extremist philosophies. To impose those beliefs on all others. To dominate. Also explains why extremists love Trump. And want to 'wreck shit'.
The good people (moderates), instead, advocate and work for the advancement of mankind. Examples include 'team play' and protecting the right of others.
It is your right to also harm others? You believe it; don't deny it; so it must be true. Now refuse to defend it. Or retract that mistake. Extremism says the purpose of life is to dominate others. It is the religion - as even demonstrated in Charlottesville. Sexobon does not deny it.
You're delusional with fear. You see extremists everywhere. Your paranoia gives rise to Stockholm Syndrome and you become the extremist. Then you engage in psychological projection secondary to your emotional defects and accuse others of being what you've become.
It's so obvious; but, you never get the obvious and end up being the only one believing what you say. It's not your fault tw. You've articulated how your father tried to kill Americans and that messed up your mind. TW, YOU ARE NOT YOUR FATHER. Alas, the damage is done and you shall remain forever impaired. Be consoled by the fact that here you are understood and we appreciate the entertainment you provide.
PS: You'd be happier if you'd stop being so defensive. Defensiveness is for losers.
You're delusional with fear. You see extremists everywhere. Your paranoia gives rise to Stockholm Syndrome and you become the extremist. Then you engage in psychological projection secondary to your emotional defects and accuse others of being what you've become.
It's so obvious; but, you never get the obvious and end up being the only one believing what you say. It's not your fault tw. You've articulated how your father tried to kill Americans and that messed up your mind. TW, YOU ARE NOT YOUR FATHER. Alas, the damage is done and you shall remain forever impaired. Be consoled by the fact that here you are understood and we appreciate the entertainment you provide.
PS: You'd be happier if you'd stop being so defensive. Defensiveness is for losers.
Gas lighting ain't what it used to be.
I know, right? It used to be all one word.
You see extremists everywhere.
You are not everywhere. Lying but again.
Am not, I'm sitting up.
Always up and moving? You must be a progressive.
Is that also a religion?
https://www.psypost.org/2020/07/new-study-links-christian-nationalism-to-going-maskless-and-neglecting-to-social-distance-amid-the-covid-19-pandemic-57514
A little more surprising, we found that Americans who are more religious (attend service more often, pray more often, feel religion is more important) seemed to engage in precautionary behaviors more frequently. In fact, once we accounted for Christian nationalist ideology in our models, being more religious was the leading predictor that someone frequently engaged in precautionary behaviors.
This suggests to us that polls are getting it wrong if they show Americans who are “more religious” are behaving incautiously regarding COVID-19. It’s not “religiousness” per se that’s leading Americans to resist expert recommendations to curb the spread of disease. It’s Christian nationalist ideology and all that’s associated with it. Christian nationalism was a new term to me. No idea what it meant.
From the article, "Christian nationalism by definition includes the idea that God has a special place in his heart for America, his New Israel."
So it's a patriotism, 'Merica, kind of attitude. USA, USA, USA, God bless the USA! kind of thing.
Not so much of a Christian "love your neighbor" kind of thing.
Yeah, it's tribal. That would explain why things we take for granted as Christian values are not represented by these folks. It must be particularly distressing for actual practicing Christians to share a pew with folks who seem to relish otherizing and hate.
It is maybe unfair to call out groups of Christians when it is a vocal minority who've lost their way.
That tribal attitude is a threat to everyone else. Just like Jenny McCarthy types, their religion (or whatever that tribalism should be called) means they become a threat to all others.
If a vaccine is available, everyone must take it within a prescribed time; for that vaccine will be effective. Anyone using a tribal attitude (refusing vaccines due to some emotionally inspired belief) puts all others back at risk when the vaccine's protective features expire.
For the same reason Jenny McCarthy also advocated the killing of so many other children (and a few at risk adults). Her tribal like emotions also justified her contempt for others.
If we had real leaders, where necessary (not narcissists), then a discussion of how a vaccine will be 'distributed fast enough' should already be in planning.
Ironically much of this was already done and planned for in the National Security Council. The Pandemic Playbook was completed in 2018. And completely disbanded and trashed in 2018 by Trump people - using cost controls (actually a tribal mentality) as an excuse.
Why is this vaccine's protection going to expire?
I think tw is hoping enough folks get vaccinated to create the condition of herd immunity soon. If folks choose to vaccinate too slowly the body count goes up.
I get that, but he's making it sound like the protection will diminish for the vaccinated people.
hmmm... He'll have to explain himself.
Why is this vaccine's protection going to expire?
Vaccines have limits. Polio vaccine lasted a lifetime. Effectiveness for Vaccines such as whooping cough, measles, and mumps degrade significantly in adults. Tetanus is typically only good for some years. Flu vaccines are good only for months.
We do not know (yet) the life expectancy of a Covid-19 vaccine. But to end a pandemic, we must assume its life expectancy can be as little as 3 months - just like some other flu vaccinations. And must make strategic plans for it accordingly and now.
For the same reason, in the military or in commercial businesses, a strategic objective is clearly defined long before the first battle or product release.
I am confused why this was not obvious months ago. Science has been saying this for a long time. Yes, many vaccines diminish for the vaccinated people over time.
The Don, like any good mafioso, will do anything to subvert knowledge. To say anything so that he need not work for the people. Apparently what science has been saying is no common knowledge?
85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management.
Well that sucks, but considering some people have gotten sick twice I suppose it's to be expected that immunity is illusive.
Even with sufficient vaccine they'd play hell trying to vaccinate the whole world in three months.
If you think getting these dipshits to wear a mask is too political just wait until you offer them a vaccine.
Vaccines have limits. Polio vaccine lasted a lifetime. ...
If you think getting these dipshits to wear a mask is too political just wait until you offer them a vaccine.
The Polio vaccine was a great success... but not for everybody.
The following quote is from the article
A Coronavirus vaccine won’t change the world right away which gives additional reasons why people won't be in a hurry to get the vaccine.
... On April 12, 1955, a vaccine against polio was shown effective and safe. Its inventor, Jonas Salk, became a national hero. Church bells rang and people ran into the streets to hug one another, said Howard Markel, a medical historian at the University of Michigan.
But there were bumps along the way, even as scientists and public health authorities sought to thwart a disease that was of greatest threat to children. The “Cutter incident” became an infamous moment in medicine, when one of the suppliers of the vaccine failed to fully inactivate the virus in the shot, infecting about 40,000 children, paralyzing 51 and killing five. Those infections seeded their own epidemic, paralyzing 113 others and killing an additional five people.
“What’s incredible is it was only a blip. Parents were so trustworthy of doctors and scientists, and it went on, people got their shots,” Markel said.
The Salk vaccination was a transformative moment, but it was also not the end of polio. Over the course of two years, cases in the United States dropped by 80 percent, but outbreaks continued for several years, even as the vaccine was rolled out. Six years later, an oral polio vaccine that could be given as a sugar cube that dissolved on children’s tongues was introduced. Polio was eliminated in the United States in 1979.
1955-1979
I like 'heretic' better but that carries (to me) a sense of active rebellion, and I just ain't the time, energy, or interest for that.
Non serviam, as declaration, works, but isn't easy to label.
Indifferent (with a clinched fist)?
*shrug*
Perhaps that fist is not
wholly clenched. I dunno either.
AP Fact check for yesterday's nonsense.
https://apnews.com/7c6c47ba0bef4fb26ca667e4ea15e131
HEALTH CARE
TRUMP: “We protected your preexisting conditions. Very strongly protected preexisting ... and you don’t hear that.”
THE FACTS: You don’t hear it because it’s not true.
People with preexisting medical problems have health insurance protections because of Obama’s health care law, which Trump is trying to dismantle.
One of Trump’s alternatives to Obama’s law — short-term health insurance, already in place — doesn’t have to cover preexisting conditions. Another alternative is association health plans, which are oriented to small businesses and sole proprietors and do cover preexisting conditions.
Neither of the two alternatives appears to have made much difference in the market.
Meanwhile, Trump’s administration is pressing the Supreme Court for full repeal of the Obama-era law, including provisions that protect people with preexisting conditions from health insurance discrimination.
With “Obamacare” still in place, preexisting conditions continue to be covered by regular individual health insurance plans.
Insurers must take all applicants, regardless of medical history, and charge the same standard premiums to healthy people and those who are in poor health, or have a history of medical problems.
Before the Affordable Care Act, any insurer could deny coverage — or charge more — to anyone with a preexisting condition who was seeking to buy an individual policy.
Democratic attacks on Republican efforts to repeal the health law and weaken preexisting condition protections proved successful in the 2018 midterms, when Democrats won back control of the House.Well that sucks, but considering some people have gotten sick twice I suppose it's to be expected that immunity is illusive.
Even with sufficient vaccine they'd play hell trying to vaccinate the whole world in three months.
Not the whole world like everything else these days it will be organized by privilege.
If you think getting these dipshits to wear a mask is too political just wait until you offer them a vaccine.
Just tell them it's bleach Trump's already approved that for injection.
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Back to the original topic. Religion and politics have always been intertwined. Nowhere was this more apparent than in the reformation and the counter Reformation in Europe. Greed and power mixed with religion created hundreds of years of conflict. This is part of the reason that Europeans are generally cooler towards religion than other regions and why our founding fathers, while espousing freedom of religion also declared separation of church and state.
Religious organizations strive for survival as much as any other organism and as such make what our objectively immoral decisions.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/04/29/vatican-pope-pius-records-holocaust/
Others are drawn to power and make what are not necessary but for them desirable accommodations with evil.
This was characterized by the split indeed German Evangelical movement between pro-Hitler and core religious churches. A schism that seems to be repeating itself today in the United States.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessing_Church#:~:text=The%20Confessing%20Church%20(German%3A%20Bekennende,pro%2DNazi%20Protestant%20Reich%20Church
Who's who do not remember history of deemed to repeat it.
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my original point from 2016 was not that religion and politics are intertwined, but that politics is replacing religion as a source of spiritual fulfillment for people
so this year we had a movement which offered spiritual redemption, moral instruction, kneeling and chants, original sin and the confession of it, fellowship and excommunication, the pursuit of a perfect state of being, rigidly enforced guidelines for behavior, and martyr worship.
~ but perhaps all that is by chance ~
my original point from 2016 was not that religion and politics are intertwined, but that politics is replacing religion as a source of spiritual fulfillment
so this year we had a movement which offered spiritual redemption, moral instruction, kneeling and chants, original sin and the confession of it, fellowship and excommunication, a thorough dogma, the pursuit of a perfect state of being, a rigidly enforced guidelines for behavior, and martyr worship.
but perhaps all that is by chance
I would still make the point that in many cases this is indicated by the mixing of religion and politics. One could make chicken and egg argument. Either the inclusion of politics into religion was caused by politics taking on the trappings of religion and forcing itself into established religions or established religions were co-opted by political leaders and religious elements were transferred to the political party.
In our current situation, as much as some conservative leaders try to disavow Trump's moral credentials while maintaining that he is a useful tool for their religious objectives, it can be argued that Donald Trump is the new moral leader of a large number of American conservative Christians.
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... it can be argued that Donald Trump is the new moral leader of a large number of American conservative Christians.
He cheated on his every wife. He says he can murder someone on Fifth Ave and still be loved (voted for) by his Christian supporters. He steals money from Contractors by not paying them. He lies incessantly. He trades in his wives every ten years for a newer model.
So that proves Christian Evangelicals are actually Satanists? That is their morality?
Religion is always about a man and his god. A good religion is never imposed on anyone else. What religion should violate American principles that separate church and state? Good religions have no place in politics. Otherwise they are imposing their beliefs on all others.
He cheated on his every wife. He says he can murder someone on Fifth Ave and still be loved (voted for) by his Christian supporters. He steals money from Contractors by not paying them. He lies incessantly. He trades in his wives every ten years for a newer model.
So that proves Christian Evangelicals are actually Satanists? That is their morality?
Religion is always about a man and his god. A good religion is never imposed on anyone else. What religion should violate American principles that separate church and state? Good religions have no place in politics. Otherwise they are imposing their beliefs on all others.
It just shows that some sheep have trouble picking the right shepard. UT is right in that some politics give the same satisfaction as religion. The switchover is made easier when a religious leader introduces the political leader, even with a qualifier. Trump being an obvious jerk makes it easier by setting a low bar. Getting into heaven by throwing children into detention camps is a lot easier than caring about them.
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UT is right in that some politics give the same satisfaction as religion. The switchover is made easier when a religious leader introduces the political leader, even with a qualifier. Trump being an obvious jerk makes it easier by setting a low bar.
What make that easiest? Who are always most easily indoctrinated by concepts that contradict their original religion. Adults who are still children. Adults who make decisions from their feelings. Adults to do not learn facts BEFORE making a decision.
"I am a conservative" or "I am a liberal" or "I am an evangelical". Therefore I know what is right. Classic examples of adults who only make decisions from what they feel only using their reptilian brain - just like a child. Adults who do not even know they are not thinking logically.
Trump should be the classic example of evil - to an evangelical. But evangelicals are some of the easiest sheep to brainwash. A high percentage of adults who do not know how to think like an adult. Who know only because they feel.
Same applies to far right and far left extremists - whose beliefs are based in the same emotions that inspire evangelicals. All classic examples of adults who are still children.
Promising two alternate realities, one heaven the other hell, based on whom you worship
True believers hanging on long speeches from on high explaining what they should think
Supporters spreading the good word and writing checks for the collection plate
I'll grant you it's
a new religion, but not
the new religion. having a consumer price index tells you who the real god is in this country. Shopping will always be the official religion of the USA, with mindless media consumption coming in second. As long as people can shop and watch shit on TV we will never have a revolution in this country. Ever.
Politics is dependent on media, at best it's a cult or a religious splinter group.
The good folks in Rhode Island, having been driven out of Europe by religious persecution, demanded and got added to the Constitution by way of the bill of rights, a written guaranty there would be no state religion. It didn't help because individual states made their own rules/laws. In some states you couldn't hold public office or government employment unless you were a specified religion. It wasn't even by custom, a wink and a nod, it was actually written into state laws.