Paris attacks
France’s president, François Hollande, has declared a state of emergency and shut the country’s borders after at least 49 peopledied and up to 60 were injured in an apparently coordinated series of gun and suicide bomb attacks in Paris.
The death toll appeared likely to rise, with automatic gunfire heard in the early hours of Saturday as armed police stormed a concert theatre where gunmen had taken up to 100 people hostage after opening fire.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/13/paris-attacks-shootings-explosions-hostages
Things are moving fast, so this is likely out of date already.
This feels horribly close to home. I feel for the parisians tonight.
According to the Guardian and Reuters, the death toll maybe around 140. Other sources are saying 118.
... This feels horribly close to home. ...
Did you make a cup of tea?
Paris is just some spatter from that boiling pot in the middle east. 100, 200, 1000 casualties, are nothing compared to the tallies of millions the warring Muslims have, and will continue to, rack up. That pot will boil until all the Sunnis or all the Shiites are dead. Outside powers and interventions are just temporary dampers on the Muslim uncivil war. If that war comes to an end, then they'll be at war with the rest of the world. You ain't seen nothing yet. :(
I'm confident that British professionals are just as capable of preventing such things from happening in England as French professionals were capable of preventing such a thing in Paris and American professionals at preventing any such thing in New York.
Once you've made your cup of tea, café au lait or claret, espresso or cocktail, you've done all that a civilized person can be expected to do. Lives lost are a paltry sum when compared to losing one's veneer.
VIVE LA FRANCE (sauf quelques Parisiens)
I just learned of these attack on my way home from the State Water Polo Championships. I feel so badly for one of the players on our team -who completely excelled himself tonight and led us to victory- he's French, and I think from Paris, and his wonderful victory will be so cruelly tainted. Yes, I know, he's alive and safe...... But he's so young and so vibrant that his sadness and that of his lovely crazy family is likely to be what will affect us around here the most directly.
And completely out of the park, I feel badly for enjoying a "private joke" I shared with no-one tonight. Part of my job was to occasionally wave a white flag and I was thinking of the stereotype....... Ridiculous I know :(
Not so ridiculous. I've worked in France with the French military. I used to speak the language passably (Defense Language Institute class of '83). I'm even a qualified French military parachutist with serial numbered badge and all.
They realize that's the way their society used to work. Neither are they proud of it, nor are they ashamed of it. They just accept it as part of the great social experiment that is France. It's a work in progress and once again trying times will serve to either validate; or, repudiate the direction they're going in. They know the white flag stereotype was earned via a failed portion of their experiment.
How did the team do, monster?
Oh wait, you'll probably talk about that in another thread... nevermind
Jan's ex is half French and her oldest lad attends university in Paris. I don't know if he's over there at the moment. I suspect I'd have had a call from one of the Js if he was still over there when this went down.
I meant what was ridiculous was feeling guilty about an unrelated fairly innocent private thought I had. The French are our (brits) next door neighbors. It is said that even Brits who don't speak a word of French experience less culture shock moving to France than we do moving to the united States. Please stop being an asshole and blaming the victim. If you cannot experience any empathy for France, then maybe for those of us here who do.
Please stop being an asshole and blaming the victim. If you cannot experience any empathy for France, then maybe for those of us here who do.
Amen
I was horrified to find out about these this morning.
The idea of being at a public event where someone just opens fire.
I know death in combat/ of civilians/ for religion happens all over the world, every minute of every day. But Paris really is so close to home for me. I spent time at school in France and I love French secularism. Shame it doesn't protect them.
Bus crash, tornado, or heart attack. People die. It happens.
Tragedy is that some people are so wacko extremist as to be so easily brainwashed. To kill for religion - for the greater glory of their god.
How brainwashed? If they had any intelligence, then their god could do his own killing. Why is their god so inferior and pathetic as to need them to commit suicide? Extremists are the easiest to brainwash. We all suffer because of it.
Never forget the source of this tragedy.
... Please stop being an asshole and blaming the victim. If you cannot experience any empathy for France, then maybe for those of us here who do.
No one has blamed the victim: however, the French own responsibility for failures in their great experiment. They accept that and take it in stride as part of their way of living. Funny that you can't while I can being that there's less culture shock between Britain and France than Britain and the United States.
Don't even flap your crap trap about empathy for France. Masses are being killed around the world all the time and they're not making it to be empathized or eulogized in threads here. This is about you, your remote connection to events, and your overreaction. The French are used to situations like this and can talk about it frankly while many Brits can't. That's where one similarity ends. Can't blame them for being language snobs with such a disparity just across the Channel.
Your request is not favorably considered.
I think many of us feel a great deal of empathy for France right now.
What I don't feel is Geraldo type pain (faux news on in the break room last nigbt) nor do I want to act like it's in my backyard just as I wouldn't feign such if it happened in, say, Pennsylvania or something. Yes, I get it, but please don't tell me all of a sudden it is your next door neighbor.
My empathy is for them.
What I said.
Much love and warm thoughts to the victims. :(
Eta: I took two years of french in hs and two quarters in college. We're not all philistines over here.
I was wondering silently how someone professed to know the victims agreed with the immigration plans of their country.
I think the world should just let Putin take care of Isis. He's bloodthirsty enough, and everyone will be able to have a clear conscience because it's just the bad guys killing the even badder guys.
Uh, Putin is on their side. :eyebrow:
I guess that depends which media you listen to.
I don't think you can help how you feel.
I roll my eyes at people who sob when bands break up, who leave shabby garage forecourt flowers on lamp-posts when schoolfriends die (but don't take them away when they rot), who leave toys and cards about angels when little children are killed - which would be better donated to families who are in poverty.
I think they are maudlin and possibly have a low IQ.
But I think that feeling shock and outrage at mass murder in a place you have personally been, and sadness that humanity is not as humane as we like to picture it, is reasonable.
This is not directed at you, Infi, or Sexobon, or anyone else.
And I'm not weeping and wailing all over social media.
The French will roll with this. Their problems with religion/ tolerance/ racism have existed for years. Echoes of a colonial past (ditto UK)
Just hope when the next attack comes it isn't us again.
100% selfish. 100% how I feel.
You're right. I wasn't thinking when I wrote that.
I think it's my bad response to all the bad things that happen. I am not dealing well with life.
Sorry. :(
Uh, Putin is on their side.
When dice have so many sides, it is called a sphere. Which side of that sphere on you on?
I was wondering silently how someone professed to know the victims agreed with the immigration plans of their country.
I was silently wondering how immigration has anything to do with extremism. Since immigration creates stronger and more prosperous nations. And extremism does not.
Brief NSFW language. [size=1]Also, yes I know I'm a sociopath please don't be mad at me it's just how I feel.[/size]
[YOUTUBE]1FLGEr1zJYo[/YOUTUBE]
If we ever get reincarnated at about the same time I'm going to look you up.
At Mr. Clod's company, there was a COMPANY-WIDE email thread of people tagging on their thoughts and prayers and replying-all every time.
And then a guy replied in French. And then more did, to prove they knew some high school French too. And even now, this email chain is still going on in his and everyone else's inbox, in a language 99% of them can't understand.
And what good is it doing? ;)
This just in,
Twelve French aircraft, ten of which were fighters, dropped 20 munitions on the de-facto ISIS capital of Raqqa in Syria today. This appears to be France’s opening reprisal on ISIS for the terror attacks in Paris on Friday night. The AP reports ISIS targets hit include command and control centers, recruitment center, a munitions depot and training camp.These strikes come as the U.S. has moved to share highly-detailed targeting information with the French military, which could be used for immediate retaliatory airstrikes in Syria.
And what good is it doing? ;)
This just in,
Twelve French aircraft, ten of which were fighters, dropped 20 munitions on the de-facto ISIS capital of Raqqa in Syria today. This appears to be France’s opening reprisal on ISIS for the terror attacks in Paris on Friday night. The AP reports ISIS targets hit include command and control centers, recruitment center, a munitions depot and training camp.These strikes come as the U.S. has moved to share highly-detailed targeting information with the French military, which could be used for immediate retaliatory airstrikes in Syria.
And what good is it doing? :D
If we had all this detailed targeting information, why weren't these targets already taken out before; unless, it wouldn't have done much good? :rolleyes:
Observed a minute's silence at 11.00.
I admit I really don't like these. I only observe them out of courtesy.
YES on Remembrance Sunday/ 11 November. And YES I understand them at football matches where someone closely connected to the club has died.
But otherwise they stick in my craw slightly. Still, makes it easier to stay silent :rolleyes:
As you will see from my earlier posts, I was genuinely affected by the murders. Having lived closely with terrorism it always will be an issue for me when it's in a place I know.
It's just random silences I can't be doing with.
They're the Facebook messages (or Clod's husband's chain email) of real life - they're arranged to make people feel like they've done something when in fact they've done nothing.
At least a memorial service, or a candlelit vigil gets you up off your seat.
Opening your house to strangers who can't get home is amazing and helpful.
Giving blood (they had to turn people away - some were waiting for three hours to donate) is important and decent and wonderful.
Shutting your yap for a minute?
Doesn't do much.
Shutting your yap for a minute?
Doesn't do much.
Except that French news programmes will likely report that Britain, and other countries observed a minute's silence. It's not much, but it sends a message of solidarity and support.
At Mr. Clod's company, there was a COMPANY-WIDE email thread ....
Jeez.
And what good is it doing? :D
If we had all this detailed targeting information, why weren't these targets already taken out before; unless, it wouldn't have done much good? :rolleyes:
It's doing what isis wanted, a boost in their recruiting campaign.
Axxxxxx Jxxxxxx - Thoughts and prayers
NSFW language follows...
This young man is doing his thing on 11/13/15
He mocks others who he projects as only saying:
“Don’t forget about me.”
But who is "me" ?
In this case, "me" has the initials A J
And, aside from getting to say the word "fucking" several times in public,
A J has used his time to produce a routine worth just what he says: “fucking nothing”.
Forget Axxxxxx Jxxxxxx
.
My thoughts and prayers with Lamplighter.
Ymay oughtsthay andway ayerspray ithway Amplighterlay.
Observed a minute's silence at 11.00.
I admit I really don't like these. I only observe them out of courtesy.
YES on Remembrance Sunday/ 11 November. And YES I understand them at football matches where someone closely connected to the club has died.
But otherwise they stick in my craw slightly. Still, makes it easier to stay silent
Watch the many servicemen confronted by strangers who say, "Thank you for your service." They don't want that. It clearly makes them uncomfortable. But they are also happy and appreciate discussing their service - just as you are happly to discuss events - good and bad - that happened to you.
A minute of silence is about whether the letter is capitalized or lower case. We do it to be nice or respectful. What really matters is what we do aftter the fact to learn from that history lesson. To remember why extremsits are the greatest threat to all humans. And to remember that the informed are often attacked by uneducated and therefore both emotional and violent extremists.
I heard some French dude being interviewed for a story on NPR this morning. He said that he felt good seeing pictures of all the buildings around the world lit up in the colors of the French flag, but that those good feelings were tempered by the fact that Paris was the victim of an attack.
So the various forms of expressed solidarity, whether they be lights on buildings or even just public posts on social media do have the positive benefit of making that French dude and probably his fellow countrymen feel just a little bit better. And the "don't forget about me" FB people can feel like they are involved.
After 9/11, I noticed that sometimes the people furthest away from the impact of the events felt more of a need to talk about it than those who were directly involved. Kinda weird, but that's somehow part of the human condition.
Social media is the way people communicate with "friends", so it would be natural to go there to commiserate too. The electronic back fence to gossip over.
I haven't posted anything about my personal thoughts on facebook, but I have posted lots of links for all my red neck friends to read to try and educate them about who they think is responsible for most of the terrorist activity lately.
GOP Governors (and 1 Democrat) are running scarred of the Syrians.
... at least until the War on Terror has ended :rolleyes:
States Whose Governors Oppose Syrian Refugee Resettlement
NPR - 11/17/15
http://www.npr.org/2015/11/17/456336432/more-governors-oppose-u-s-resettlement-of-syrian-refugees
Governors in 30 states across the country have now publicly asked
for the resettlement of Syrian refugees to stop until security concerns can be addressed.
…
Advocates for refugees have sharply criticized the governors' statements.
Alison Parker of Human Rights Watch said,
[QUOTE] "The governors' announcements amount to fear-mongering attempts
to block Syrians from joining the generous religious groups and communities
who step forward to welcome them."
[/QUOTE]
[ATTACH]54201[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]54200[/ATTACH]
ETA: Sorry, I've lost the link to the second pic
They're probably concerned that resettled Syrians would be taking jobs away from our domestic terrorists.
The Gov of Michigan is one of the ringleaders of this witch-hunt.
Imagine how many vacant houses in Detroit could be made into homes by Syrian refugees.
Maybe these refugees would even be willing to fix them up a bit, and pay taxes on them,
and work in the community, and have kids, and join the military, and ... you know,
the same sort of things other refugees have done when given asylum in the US.
( Some might even become Republicans) :eek:
.
There was a lot of bitching about the Vietnamese refugees also, because the prolonged war which affected almost everyone. But they had money, and the skills to succeed in a better financial climate.
Syrians, work where? The jobs that allow vacant houses to be rehabbed and pay taxes on the result, have gone to China, Mexico, India. So you bring in refugees with nothing but the shirt on their back, may or may not speak English, then expect them to support themselves and rehab real estate? Lofty goals indeed. There has to be a plan to address those issues if you expect them to integrate and be successful. Otherwise they become destitute and desperate... prime for recruiting by terrorists.
I'm not saying keep them out, I'm saying do it right.
Maybe we could get France to pay us refugee support to keep them from going there. :litebulb:
Nope, France is blowing all their money doing exactly what ISIS wants.
Opening a Folies Bergère in Syria?
That would add to the circus of their recruitment campaign, I suppose. Speaking of circus, Putin said, their airliner was definitely blown up by a bomb, and unleashed 25 bombers on Syria, all on the opposite side of the country from where ISIS is.
,,,But they had money, and the skills to succeed in a better financial climate.
Syrians, work where? ...So you bring in refugees with nothing but the shirt on their back,
may or may not speak English, then expect them to support themselves
and rehab real estate ? Lofty goals indeed. ...
I'm not saying keep them out, I'm saying do it right.
What a bunch of preconceived ideas !
Like learning English is something that refugees have never done before.
Like these particular refugees are unskilled, incapable, and ... latent terrorists.
How much motivation did it take to risk the lives of their children to leave Syria ?
What skills did they need to assemble the $ for passage those boats ?
How did they live in Syria... putting Elephant Leaves over their head when it rained ?
What do you mean by "... do it right" ?
... Maybe we could to build a "Trumph Wall" all the way around our castle.
Sorry be sarcastic, xoB, but your response this time one is xenophobic.
... refugees are unskilled, incapable, and ... latent terrorists...
Wow, Lamplighter. This is some of the most disgusting stuff you have ever written.
Our country was built by immigrants. Why do you hate America?
That is to say, you have cherry picked parts of Bruce's posts to twist them into something you can argue against, just like I did with my quote of you.
Putting refugees in vacant Detroit houses won't work because the houses are empty for a reason. There are no jobs in Detroit. If we want to absorb refugees, we need to spread them around in multiple locations where they can find work. We need to do it right.
Sorry be sarcastic, xoB, but your response this time one is xenophobic.
No it wasn't but yours certainly was. Twisting what I said about doing more than just dumping the refugees, shows a black heart beneath that left liberal persona.
That is to say, you have cherry picked parts of Bruce's posts
to twist them into something you can argue against, just like I did with my quote of you.
... We need to do it right.
Glatt. Is my bit about using
vacant houses in Detroit the only idea presented in my sequence of posts ?
If that is all you got from it, then strike it out.
The Gov of Michigan is one of the ringleaders of this witch-hunt.
Maybe [they will]…pay taxes and work in the community, and have kids, and join the military, and
... you know, the same sort of things other refugees have done when given asylum in the US.
( Some might even become Republicans) :eek:
Diverting a discussion into a throwaway issue (here, it’s jobs in Detroit) is a tactic to delay or re-direct political issues.
I think we are all bright enough around here to get the gist of xoB’s post.
It’s a judgement call as to whether my responding to several of his comments
(i.e.,” nothing but the shirt on their back”, “may not speak English”,
[insufficient skills] “to support themselves”, “prime for recruiting by terrorists” )
amounts to cherry-picking. - - - I don’t believe so.
Even from all this, we still don’t see what is meant by “...do it right “.
Series of posts? I responded to one, what you wrote, not what you may have been thinking. I gave valid reasons why it was a bad idea. You could not refute them so you twisted my response and went off in a snit.
[YOUTUBE]VN29X2HCKpU[/YOUTUBE]
OK, take all of my twist-lings and cherry-picking and personal-attacks and name-calling out of it.
How should the government "do it right" ?
.
I think we are all bright enough around here to know how the government should do it right.
Virginia mayor cites Japanese internment camps (favorably) in making case for halting Syrian refugees.
Washington Post -Amber Phillips - November 18
Twice in one day now, politicians have evoked the powerful memory of
the internment of Japanese Americans during World War II to argue about
whether the United States should continue plans to resettle 10,000 Syrian
refugees after the terrorist attacks in Paris.
One politician, Washington Gov. Jay Inslee (D), pretty eloquently argued
that closing the doors to these Syrian refugees would be a mistake driven
by the same kind of irrational fear that led to the unlawful imprisonment
and stripping of property of U.S. citizens based solely on their ethnic heritage.
But then there are even some Democrats that are running scared.
To Wit: from today's letter of Mayor David A. Browers (Roanoke, VA)
as he requested :
"...all Roanoke Valley governments and non-governmental agencies
to suspend and delay any further Syrian refugee assistance
until these serious hostilities and atrocities end, or at the very least until
regarded as under control by U.S. authorities, and normalcy is restored.
"I'm reminded that Franklin D. Roosevelt felt compelled to to sequester
Japanese foreign nationals after the bombing of Pearl Harbor,
and it appears that the threat of harm to America from [the Islamic State]
now is just as real and serious a threat as that from our enemies then," he said.
So you bring in refugees with nothing but the shirt on their back, may or may not speak English, then expect them to support themselves and rehab real estate? Lofty goals indeed. There has to be a plan to address those issues if you expect them to integrate and be successful. Otherwise they become destitute and desperate... prime for recruiting by terrorists.
Throughout America's history, destitude and desparate immigrants learned English, bought houses, and succeeded. In fact, 40% of the companies in this nation were started by immigrants. These tend to become the most successful Americans.
The Syrians are a particularly unique group. Whereas maybe 10% or as much as 15% of Syrians are higher educated (ie professionals), 40% of the immigrants (refugees) from Syria are these better educated people. Most waves of immigrants almost never such a high percentage of better educated people. Any nation that wants a brighter economic future (and more productive companies) would gleefully welcome Syrians.
Detroit clearly needs these people. Detroit has a job shortage because Detroit has a shortage or innovation people - the source of new jobs.
Lamp's comments were overly harsh, but I see what he means about some of it. I doubt very much that bruce intended his comment to denigrate the syrian refugees - but the implied assumption that, unlike previous waves of refugees, the syrian refugees would be particularly uneducated, unskilled and unable to communicate in english definitely plays into an unpleasant and unfair stereotype.
The majority of those making such a journey are the people with the resources to do so, including access to funds and contacts. The proportion of refugees with higher education and an at one time affluent or middle-class background is much higher than in the general syrian population. Also - probably much higher than in the host communities they go to.
As an aside - we need to stop thinking about radicalism as a disease of the poor and uneducated - it's the other way around now. Look at which young men (and women) are travelling to and from syria pedalling extremism - how often do we hear that they were students?
In the late 80s I worked for a cab company, that was owned by Iranians. Max one of the owners , very proudly told me that he came over on a student visa and never left. They didn't pay their taxes either. I was glad to be out of there.
So we first send all our refugee applicants to England for three years. If they haven't killed anyone during that time, they can come to the United States. That way TWO countries get to benefit from all of the refugees' wonderful attributes. You know the attributes I'm talking about, the ones that enabled them to manage their native countries so well. It's a win - win plan for Syrian refugees and Americans and isn't that what's really important. The others are only bit players here.
Just sayin'.
~ we actually need cheap labor in this country right now ~
Where did so many American Noble prize winners come from? Harvard? Stamford? Yale? An example of how the emotional make conclusions. Topping that list is City College of NY. Because most productive and great Americans come here without education, often without English. They come here destitute and desperate. Immigrants historically are more patriotic American than fools who worship a flag, sing patriotic songs, and hype patriotic rhetoric.
The latter explain why we massacred 50,000 American soldiers for no useful purpose in Vietnam. And why we massacred 5000 soldiers uselessly in Iraq.
For younger ones who did not yet live through it, we now have wacko extremist rhetoric trying to get us into another pathetically useless war based in emotions. And by completely ignoring fundamental facts well understood and proven even 2000 years before Columbus was born.
Extremists want to see terrorism as a largest threat. If emotion was properly focused, then they would be attacking evil automobiles and beer. Numbers say automobiles and alcohol kill far more.
Why a sudden increase in the death rate of white, middle aged men? Something more dangerous than terrorism gets ignored when emotions replace adult thought processes.
Only the emotional blame all Syrian refugees because only one terrorist may have been from Syria. Fact that most others were local citizens somehow gets lost. Because the emotional only know from their feelings - facts and reality be damned. Watch the emotional hype fear and loathing rather than first learn facts. Facts such as how we all got here and why extremists exist.
Refugees are not are a threat. Extremists (on all sides) threaten us all. Current extremist rhetoric that wants more war is more dangerous than terrorism. Same extremists even hype immigrants as evil - rather than look in a mirror.
~ we actually need cheap labor in this country right now ~
America's unemployment rate has never been this low since George Jr began damage to the American economy. Last time unemployment was this low, George Jr had only been President for three months.
Never forget facts. The emotional fear (never learn facts) because rhetoric has told them Obama is evil. Same extremists who loved George Jr (ie President Cheney) also forget another evil created because emotion replaced adult thought. It has taken this long to undo extremists damage to the economy. We need immigrants. We have finally restored the American economy to where it was when Clinton finished. We finally have healthy employment numbers.
Another problem is traceable to what emotional extremism did in 2003. Today's terrorism is directly traceable to actions by that President and his extremists: Mission Accomplished.
:blah:
[Paraphrasing mine.]
:blah:
[Paraphrasing mine.]
Fact: There is no right to emigrate to the United States.
Our thoughts and prayers are with the Syrian refugees.
Fact: We can get all the immigrants we need from our neighbors to the south.
Let's first be good neighbors and in doing so set the example for Syria's neighbors to own up to their responsibilities in their region.
Fact: The US immigration program was briefly halted and then overhauled after the 9/11 attacks and refugee applicants are subject to the highest level of security checks of any type of traveler to the U.S.
This didn't happen without valid reason. So many US government run or contracted programs have failed to maintain their standards that citizens asking for a pause in any of them to ensure they can meet increasing demands is entirely justified.
Just sayin'.
I doubt very much that bruce intended his comment to denigrate the syrian refugees - but the implied assumption that, unlike previous waves of refugees, the syrian refugees would be particularly uneducated, unskilled and unable to communicate in english definitely plays into an unpleasant and unfair stereotype.
These are not the people you've worked with in the past. From what I’ve seen, these are not emigres, they’re refugees. They didn’t liquidate their assets and arrange passage, but grab what they could carry and run. And after walking for days dropped half what they thought they could carry, to what they could actually carry.
Normal people have their wealth tied up in real estate and personal possessions, not something easily transported or easily liquidated in a war zone. Make no mistake, Syria is a war zone and has been for some time. Even if these refugees worked in an office or have manual skills in a trade, that doesn’t automatically apply to jobs here. Why even a skilled Syrian carpenter is probably used to that archaic metric system.
Most are likely Muslims of some flavor, may or may not speak some English, and have little or no money. To plunk them in Detroit, where they don’t have the support of a community similar to themselves, expecting them to find employment paying enough for a family to live on, no less rehab an abandon (and likely gutted house), is ludicrous.
Christ, the natives, who are familiar with navigating Detroit, are struggling to keep their head above water, working multiple jobs just to feed the family.
This will tell you what's happening in Detroit.My penis. My penis. My penis.
Extremists are empowered by what other extremists do. It justifies hate - and his cheapshots. Quoted was the source of his cheapshots, hate, and extremism.
Everyone has done best possible to filter out radical threats. The program has been successful. Filter means some will always be missed. 100% filtering is impossible. But extremists want 100% filtering to keep them all out - as much as possible. Most immigrants are moderates - therefore must be evil.
Virginia mayor cites Japanese internment camps (favorably) in making case for halting Syrian refugees.
Roanoke mayor apologizes for suggesting internment for Syrian refugees
Washington Post -Laura Vozzella - November 20,2015-
RICHMOND — ...“It’s just not in my heart to be racist or bigoted,” Roanoke Mayor David Bowers (D)
said, according to Roanoke TV station WDBJ. “I apologize to all of those offended by my remarks.
No one else is to blame, but me.”…
One comment on this apology by hill_guy
[QUOTE]An apology is nice, but a resignation is the only acceptable option.
Once you've stated, publicly, that you endorse the idea of building internment camps
and rounding up citizens based on race,religion, national origin, or sexual orientation,
your political life is over, effective immediately. …
[/QUOTE]
Yes, I know. I have cherry-picked from the these articles.
.
I heard on the radio that Trump was advocating all US muslims being registered on a database and carrying special identification.
There's a word for that kind of shit.
Tw, you seem to be obsessed with dicks, are you a latent homosexual?
Your developmental disability makes you see everyone who disagrees with you as an extremist. It's not real, it's your delusion. Many of those who have differing opinions have access to information that you do not have. You're completely dependent on open source information and are quite frankly not very good at interpreting it; because, you haven't lived it...you're just an armchair commentator. When you talk too much about these things while not being well grounded in reality, it makes you look like a whacko moderate and reflects poorly on all moderates. We normal moderates would appreciate it if you would not identify yourself with us anymore. Thanks in advance.
I heard on the radio that Trump was advocating all US muslims being registered on a database and carrying special identification.
There's a word for that kind of shit.
Yeah, he talks too much: Trump is the tw of politicians.
... Yes, I know. I have cherry-picked from the these articles.
At your age you can't be a cherry popper so you have to settle for cherry picker. Life is hard, then you die.
If extremists were thinking as adults, then their hate would focus on Belgiums. Belgium was the source of terrorism. But political handlers have told extremists to hate Syrians. Syrians are easier targets for hate.
French authorities have said the attacks were planned in Brussels by a local man, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, 28, who fought for Islamic State in Syria and was killed in a police siege of an apartment in the Paris suburb of St. Denis on Wednesday.
[Bold mine]
We'd like to be reasonably sure that people like him don't get into the US by posing as refugees in Syria. A fake family and credentials are easy to assemble and manufacture respectively.
You seem to have a problem with that and are selectively presenting information to deliberately obfuscate the whole truth. You behave like a propagandist.
Tw, you sound un-American. Tw, are you a jihadist sympathizer?
Tw, this is why developmentally impaired people such as yourself have to put some extra effort into thinking about what they say before they say it; so, they don't disgrace themselves.
We'd like to be reasonably sure that people like him don't get into the US by posing as refugees in Syria. A fake family and credentials are easy to assemble and manufacture respectively.
Hundreds of felons are killing Americans in greater numbers every week. But wacko extremists fear the rare terrorist. Even when immigrants are already sufficiently vetted.
Not good enough for extremists brainwashed by rhetoric. We must ban them all. Resulting emotion and hate says Mexicans, Syrians, and Belgium are trying to kill us all. Why did he not also include evil Canadians? His handlers have not yet told him to hate Canadians.
Easier is to brainwash a poorly educated extremist into hating Syrians. America needs immigrants. Immigrants tend to become educated and productive American - therefore become moderates. Extremists hate that.
Simply grab his pee-pee (metaphorically). Then an extremist unleashes a torrent of insults. Another successful experiment. It would be comical if it was not so sad.
An adult who is still a child is that easily identified. Unfortunately these same poorly educated people are also easily brainwash to promote hate - of mythical threats and not existing serious ones.
An adult who is still a child even fears to look under his bed. He might find a terrorist hiding there. Of course that bogey monster will be a Syrian.
Apples and oranges tw. Run of the mill felons don't paralyze major cities; or, entire countries. Terrorists do. That's why they're called terrorist and not just criminals. You lack a basic understanding of the dynamics in play relative to their importance. Being unable to comprehend and assimilate these dynamics, your developmental disability has you dismissing anyone who disagrees with you as being extremist when in fact it has simply made you the extremist, a leftist extremist, with whom we moderates don't identify.
Leftist extremists like you don't care that accepting refugees is defined by law as an act of compassion and we have absolute authority over who we show compassion for. Extremists like you expound on how we must accept others just because they want it and when that doesn't work you tell us that we need them. You're just like George Dubya telling us the Iraqis want us to invade their country and when that doesn't work telling us that they need us to save them. You use extremist rhetoric.
Developmentally impaired leftist extremists like you lump refugees and all other categories of immigrants together in an attempt to push a One Size Fits All Immigration Policy. That's what terrorists dream about. They are after all, you know, whacko like you.
<snip>To plunk them in Detroit, where they don’t have the support of a community similar to themselves,
expecting them to find employment paying enough for a family to live on,
no less rehab an abandon (and likely gutted house), is ludicrous. <snip>
The concept of settling refugees in Detroit was only one of several presented in my earlier post.
I don't remember having previously seen or read about such an idea.
But as this tread has developed, I did a search in Google News.
Guess what ! The concept was not original with me.
Here is one article from just last September... It includes a reference to an
opinion piece
published in May of 2015:
Let Syrians Settle Detroit
It is just a little ironic that the Governor of Michigan,
Rick Snyder,
who now is a GOP ringleader of this witch hunt, was a serious advocate
of welcoming Syrian refugees into Michigan, and specifically settling them in Detroit.
Syrian refugees eager to build new lives in metro Detroit
Detroit Free Press - Niraj Warikoo, - September 30, 2015
Up to 100 Syrian refugees have arrived in Michigan this year, with more expected in coming months.
Gazing through his living room window in a quiet block in Garden City,
a 48-year-old Syrian refugee ponders his new life in America.
"In Syria, there's no safety; it's too dangerous," Moustafa Assad said
from a sparsely furnished home he rents, with his two sons sitting next to him on his couch.
"At least here, it's safe for them. There's no war. ... I want to stay here
for my kids' future so they can go to school and learn."
Assad's hopes are echoed by up to 100 Syrian refugees who have arrived in Michigan this year,
one of almost 1,500 who came to the U.S. in 2015, fleeing Syria's four-year civil war and refugee camps.
In Michigan, state officials, elected representatives and Arab-American social service agencies
are keen to welcome refugees, saying they could help the region and repopulate areas like Detroit.
An opinion piece in the New York Times in May, cowritten by a Stanford University professor
who called for bringing Syrian refugees to Detroit, has sparked discussion about how refugees could help the city.
"This will add to the population of Detroit," said Haifa Fakhouri, president of the Arab American and Chaldean Council.
"And it will bring economic benefits."
Fakhouri, U.S. Sen. Gary Peters, D-Mich., and Gov. Rick Snyder say the state should be welcoming.
On Tuesday, Snyder said that refugees can be an asset to Michigan's economy,
saying that some of them "were professionals; they were people who hire people and tend to create jobs."
Detroit Mayor Mike Duggan said through a spokesman that "everyone is welcome in Detroit, including refugees from Syria.
My point is that quite a few government officials and community leaders
have looked into and
supported this is as a valid concept for Detroit.
At least until the GOP scare tacticians got busy...
BE AFRAID ... BE AFRAID ... BE AFRAID
Yes, I know. I have cherry picked items for this post.
.
Syrian Refugees Don’t Pose a Serious Security Threat (Cato)
Of the 859,629 refugees admitted from 2001 onwards, only three have been convicted of planning terrorist attacks on targets outside of the United States, and none was successfully carried out. That is one terrorism-planning conviction for every 286,543 refugees that have been admitted. To put that in perspective, about 1 in every 22,541 Americans committed murder in 2014. The terrorist threat from Syrian refugees in the United States is hyperbolically over-exaggerated and we have very little to fear from them because the refugee vetting system is so thorough. The Gov of Michigan is one of the ringleaders of this witch-hunt.
Imagine how many vacant houses in Detroit could be made into homes by Syrian refugees.
Maybe these refugees would even be willing to fix them up a bit, and pay taxes on them,
and work in the community, and have kids, and join the military, and ... you know,
the same sort of things other refugees have done when given asylum in the US.
( Some might even become Republicans) :eek:
.
The concept of settling refugees in Detroit was only one of several presented in my earlier post.
I think you better reread that post I was responding to. For the convenience of your failing memory, I've brought the entire post here, but go ahead and check, it's post #46, I'll wait. Now please point out these "several ideas" in that post you claim I was ignoring.
Griff,
Everyone knows that it's not about security; but, about partisan politics. This is just another venue for that.
Even where partisan politics isn't a factor, the US immigration program is federally administered; but, largely funded at the State level and that becomes a concern because individual resettlement locations are really better off having thousands of refugees, rather than hundreds, to help the community thrive and prevent disaffection of the next generation. We have to provide their financial support until they get on their feet.
There is a legitimate concern that as the US ramps up the number of Syrian refugees it accepts to the tens of thousands that the security screening won't keep up and it needs to be kept up. The procedures are manpower intensive and past performance isn't necessarily a reliable indicator of future performance.
IF we do it right, security concerns are negligible. The major obstacle is that after 9/11, people don't trust the politicians to do it right.
For the convenience of your failing memory,
I've brought the entire post here, but go ahead and check, it's post #46, I'll wait.
Now please point out these "several ideas" in that post you claim I was ignoring.
I have already replied to that... in
post #56
Subsequently, I replied to your statement that the concept was "ludicreous", in
post #80.
All you did in #56 was twist my words with your interpretation of what you wanted them to really mean.
In #80 you quote my response to your post about giving refugees the abandoned houses in Detroit. Then go into people who are in favor of accepting refugees, which I never disputed, in fact said do it right. Topping it off with a quote from a Syrian who is happy in the suburb of Garden City which is a far fucking cry from the abandoned houses in Detroit.
So once again, your post #46 was an ill conceived idea to which I respond...
There was a lot of bitching about the Vietnamese refugees also, because the prolonged war which affected almost everyone. But they had money, and the skills to succeed in a better financial climate.
Syrians, work where? The jobs that allow vacant houses to be rehabbed and pay taxes on the result, have gone to China, Mexico, India. So you bring in refugees with nothing but the shirt on their back, may or may not speak English, then expect them to support themselves and rehab real estate? Lofty goals indeed. There has to be a plan to address those issues if you expect them to integrate and be successful. Otherwise they become destitute and desperate... prime for recruiting by terrorists.
I'm not saying keep them out, I'm saying do it right.
There's no need to cherry pick and twist what I'm saying, it's plain English, and I stand by it.
I stand by mine too.
Peace
So you stand by your misinterpretation of what I said and attacks on my intentions and character.
Then no, no peace.
This is how to do it right instead of lampshits stupid plan to dump refugees in abandon Detroit houses.
Run of the mill felons don't paralyze major cities; or, entire countries. Terrorists do. That's why they're called terrorist and not just criminals. .
Moderates are not threatened by terrorists. An extremist here is so emotional as to fear Syrians ... and Mexicans, and Belgiums, and all Muslims. No wonder extremists knew Saddam had WMDs. Moderates don't promote hate of immigrants. An extremist so fears terrorists as to even not look under his bed. We might learn that his dust balls have Syrian passports.
Any dollar spent by Feds or states means massive increases in this nation's wealth and productivity. These immigrants are needed in all cities and states. Those who need to be told what to believe are fed rhetoric from extremist presidential candidates and 31 anti-American governors. Those politicians target emotional extremists. They know where brainwashing best works.
Terrorists target the amygdala of emotional extremists. Moderates use a pre-frontal cortex to know felons are a greater threat. Moderates know a greater threat exists in movie theaters - not in immigration lines. Rhetoric does not tell moderates what to fear. Syrian bogey men are not hiding under anyone's bed.
How many Muslim dust balls are hiding under sexobon's bed? Adult Americans welcome the tired, poor, and huddled Syrian masses yearning to breathe free. Only wacko extremists fear Syrians. Moderates know what is written on the Statue of Liberty.
Neurotics build castles in the air, psychotics live in them. Developmentally impaired people like tw try to sell them believing that if he can sell one, they must be real. Whacko leftist extremists like tw don't recognize how people are, only how he thinks they should be and of course they should all be like him. Whacko leftist extremists like tw promote reckless abandon in their endeavors while we moderates use a common sense approach balancing the needs of all the people rather than trying to mold them all into our own image. We moderates recognize that good people can have bad ideas while whacko leftist extremists like tw labels anyone who doesn't agree with him un-American: patriotism, the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Adult Americans welcome the tired, poor, and huddled Syrian masses yearning to breath free. ... Moderates know what is written on the Statue of Liberty.
Moderates know the poem was written for an art auction to raise money for construction of the Statue's pedestal. It played no role in the opening of the Statue in 1886. Putting a transcript inside the Statue was the idea of the artist's promoter to make the artist famous.
Moderates reference the poem in context of balancing the needs of the many with the needs of the few and moderates reference the poen as it actually reads, not as they think it should read for their own agenda at the moment Developmentally impaired whacko leftist extremist tw bastardizes the poem using propagandist technique in an attempt to obfuscate not being grounded reality.
Moderates win, developmentally impaired whacko leftist extremist tw loses
and that's the name of that tune.
Interesting piece by Frankie Boyle in the Guardian:
There were a lot of tributes after the horror in Paris. It has to be said that Trafalgar Square is an odd choice of venue to show solidarity with France; presumably Waterloo was too busy. One of the most appropriate tributes was Adele dedicating Hometown Glory to Paris, just as the raids on St-Denis started. A song about south London where, 10 years ago, armed police decided to hysterically blow the face off a man just because he was a bit beige.
In times of crisis, we are made to feel we should scrutinise our government’s actions less closely, when surely that’s when we should pay closest attention. There’s a feeling that after an atrocity history and context become less relevant, when surely these are actually the worst times for a society to go on psychopathic autopilot. Our attitudes are fostered by a society built on ideas of dominance, where the solution to crises are force and action, rather than reflection and compromise.
If that sounds unbearably drippy, just humour me for a second and imagine a country where the response to Paris involved an urgent debate about how to make public spaces safer and marginalised groups less vulnerable to radicalisation. Do you honestly feel safer with a debate centred around when we can turn some desert town 3,000 miles away into a sheet of glass? Of course, it’s not as if the west hasn’t learned any lessons from Iraq and Afghanistan. This time round, no one’s said out loud that we’re going to win.
Read the rest here:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/23/frankie-boyle-fallout-paris-psychopathic-autopilotOur attitudes are fostered by a society built on ideas of dominance, where the solution to crises are force and action, rather than reflection and compromise.
Reflection and compromise? Who is he suggesting compromise with whom? Waxing poetic about Muslims doing great things a thousand years ago has no bearing on anything current. He really thinks the prime target of ISIS is the west, when in reality we're down the list.
The prime target is all Muslims, world wide, who do not submit to the ISIS Caliphate and follow their 7th century code. Next on the list are the leaders of Saudi Arabia, Iran, and other Muslim countries who have tried to modernize, committing offences like educating children, especially girls, in anything other than the Koran. Next is all western companies doing business in the Caliphate, which would by then include the entire Middle East, most of Africa, and Indonesia.
Then because of the requirements under 7th century rules, for the Caliph to remain in his position he must remain at war and expand the Caliphate continuously until it covers the entire Earth, comes the west. These terror attacks, and the subsequent reprisals, are just a recruitment tool.
developmentally impaired whacko leftist extremist tw loses and that's the name of that tune.
Speaking of an adult who is still a child. Personal attacks are justified when one is Ted Cruz, Joseph McCarthy, Rush Limbaugh, or Ann Coulter. Hate justifies any oondescending action. Overaged children who are bullies will replicate actions of their heroes.
How ironic that a child is so similar to ISIS. Both have an enemies list. Can just anyone get on it?
We moderates don't make enemies tw. We just deal in facts that go to the credibility of a source. You presenting as a developmentally impaired whacko leftist extremist means you have very little credibility and that makes you more like a pet ... one that hasn't been paper trained yet. Had you wanted to be a hero whose actions others would replicate, you shouldn't have become a propagandist.
Fact: Moderates prevail over developmentally impaired whacko leftist extremist tw.
[YOUTUBE]Mtc5trma1NQ[/YOUTUBE]
Meanwhile:
In the wake of the Paris attacks, politicians in the United States and Europe are claiming that the movement of refugees and migrants across Europe's borders made it possible for Islamic State (ISIS) militants to infiltrate the continent.
In response, Europe is tightening its borders, and the refugee crisis has become an unlikely subject in next year's U.S. election. So far, Donald Trump has questioned whether Syrian refugees seeking asylum in America were part of a "Trojan Horse" plot and Gov. Chris Christie has suggested that even 5-year-old Syrian orphans should be kept out of the U.S. There have also been calls to discriminate among refugees according to religion.
But while investigators are still unravelling the plot, one fact is clear at this point: Not one Paris attacker has been officially identified as a refugee.
http://mashable.com/2015/11/23/paris-attackers-europeans-not-refugees/
All this talk of refugees as a dangerous thing- as potentially a route for terrorists to enter the country is pure fear-mongering. It is precisely what the Islamic State nutcases want. They do not want the west to harbour refugees. They don ot want the west to trust the muslims in their countries. They want social dischord between muslims and their non-muslim countrymen or host - because that is a recruiting tool for them.
We, and I count my own fucked up little country in this, are willingly becoming what they want us to become. Syrian refugees - some of the most vulnerable people in the world right now - are being painted as potential monsters, or a wave of human effluence just threatening to wasj over us. They're described in terms of rabid dogs, and politicians seemingly feel comfortable contemplating a fucking religious test to weed out the muslims and only take the christians. Because 8 men and women, seemingly raised in Europe, attacked Paris, the hundreds of thousands of fleeing Syrians are now seen as terrorists.
Jesus fucking christ are we here again so soon? Trump's suggestions about databases and ID cards for muslims could have come straight from Mein Kampf.
All this talk of refugees as a dangerous thing- as potentially a route for terrorists to enter the country is pure fear-mongering. It is precisely what the Islamic State nutcases want. .
And then people who think (without being emotional) include facts. All those Paris terrorist except one had passports from NATO countries. That means they could even come to the US without a visa. Greatest threat is only from immigrants when wacko extremists preach to the emotional and naive. Far more dangerous are real threats such as citizens in theaters, automobiles, and lightning.
Is Thor an immigrant? Must be. Donald Trump and Ted Cruz said so.
Jesus fucking christ are we here again so soon? Trump's suggestions about databases and ID cards for muslims could have come straight from Mein Kampf.
Exactly what ISIS wants. Who is going to answer the call to join them, someone who's free and content, or someone harassed and suppressed where they live? In fairness to Trump, I can agree those refugees are just as dangerous as Mexicans. ;)
... politicians seemingly feel comfortable contemplating a fucking religious test to weed out the muslims and only take the christians. Because 8 men and women, seemingly raised in Europe, attacked Paris, the hundreds of thousands of fleeing Syrians are now seen as terrorists. ...
FYI @ Dani,
Religious test is already an integral part of the US immigration screening process.
The reason you gave for politicians wanting to weed out Muslims is not the only one out there.
I'm posting a link to an article with another rationale. This does not constitute my endorsement of it. It's just to broaden your knowledge:
Refugee ‘Religious Test’ Is ‘Shameful’ and ‘Not American’ … Except that Federal Law Requires ItBe careful Dani, Sexobon is blowing smoke up your skirt.
The author of this article in Sexton’s link is the same attorney who, under GW Bush,
“defended the practice of waterboarding as not necessarily being torture,
and as necessary in some situations to prosecute the War on Terror”
... and then [coyly] admitted that "waterboarding is close enough to torture
that reasonable minds can differ on whether it is torture".
These guys are trying to overwhelm us into believing there is a legal basis
to exclude refugees on the basis of the their religion.
But I haven’t found it because there are only the following four places
in the citation where the word “religion” is used.
Before asylum is granted:
One section defines religious persecution as one of the several
legal reasons that a refugee can be granted asylum.
One section defines the refugee as having the burden of proof
to show that IF ASYLUM IS NOT GRANTED, the refugee would be harmed,
and defines religious persecution as one of the valid reasons.
One section defines reasons for NOT granting asylum is that
if the refugee had participated in religious persecution of some else.
After asylum has been granted:
One section defines several ways that asylum can be terminated
… one is when the refugee agrees to the termination
and will not be persecuted in the next country of choice.
Maybe Sexobon can cite where the law allows the person's religion,
itself, to be the reason for denying asylum.
.
Are these refugees coming in under asylum? I thought they were coming here under humanitarian circumstances. Either way I'd read in several places finding out their religion was part of the vetting process, but nobody said any particular religion would be a disqualifier. Bearing in mind this was not official policy but internet scuttlebutt, however if it is a disqualifier, I should think one camp or the other would have brought it up.
That National Review link says...
There is no right to emigrate to the United States. And the fact that one comes from a country or territory ravaged by war does not, by itself, make one an asylum candidate. War, regrettably, is a staple of the human condition. Civil wars are generally about power. That often makes them violent and, for many, tragic; but it does not necessarily make them wars in which one side is persecuting the other side.
This started as a civil war but has long grown out of that, I think there's probably more non-Syrians than natives at this point. I mean this is Hobbit shit, battle of the 5 armies territory.
In the case of this war, the Islamic State is undeniably persecuting Christians. It is doing so, moreover, as a matter of doctrine. Even those Christians the Islamic State does not kill, it otherwise persecutes as called for by its construction of sharia (observe, for example, the ongoing rape jihad and sexual slavery). To the contrary, the Islamic State seeks to rule Muslims, not kill or persecute them.
This is were he goes astray, he has no idea what he's taking about. First, the Islamic state is ISIS, not Syria although they are one of the players there. Under ISIS' 7th century version of the teachings, Christian are not the enemy to be persecuted as long as they pay a tribute, and recognize ISIS right to rule. The #1 enemy is Muslims who refuse to submit to ISIS and toe the line. Those Muslims must die first, which means these refugees are in danger.
Here's ISIS' reasoning.
The refugees coming to America have been through an 18 month long vetting procedure, before they get to board the plane.
... I'm posting a link to an article with another rationale. This does not constitute my endorsement of it. It's just to broaden your knowledge:
Be careful Dani, Sexobon is blowing smoke up your skirt. ...
... Maybe Sexobon can cite where the law allows the person's religion,
itself, to be the reason for denying asylum.
I see you're still hell-bent on misrepresenting what other people in the Cellar have say. I said there was another argument out there and demonstrated that by citing it. No follow-up is required since I'm not advocating.
Are these refugees coming in under asylum? I thought they were coming here under humanitarian circumstances. ...
We don't simply take in everyone who's on the losing side of civil strife; or, war.
... The #1 enemy is Muslims who refuse to submit to ISIS and toe the line. Those Muslims must die first, which means these refugees are in danger.
Of course, of course, that's why they massacred people in Paris. :rolleyes: Funny you can deduce that ISIS is in recruiting mode; but, don't recognize that their priorities on who dies first have changed with that.
The refugees coming to America have been through an 18 month long vetting procedure, before they get to board the plane.
That's been repeated here and is still relevant to the notion that refugees who make it to the US don't present a danger; but, not to the notion that what constitutes refugee eligibility for relocation here is being expanded.
We don't simply take in everyone who's on the losing side of civil strife; or, war.
Generally no, but that doesn't mean we can't in extenuating circumstances. We took half a million Vietnamese, and a shit load of Cubans.
Of course, of course, that's why they massacred people in Paris. :rolleyes: Funny you can deduce that ISIS is in recruiting mode; but, don't recognize that their priorities on who dies first have changed with that.
Get real, less than 200 in Paris, they behead that many on a good day. Paris was a pisshole in a snowbank compared to what they're doing at home. Killing a few French doesn't recruit, the French retaliation, the airstrikes, are what they want and need to fire up recruitment drives. Westerners attacking the homeland fires up closet Jihadists to come out and fence sitters to fall their way.
That's been repeated here and is still relevant to the notion that refugees who make it to the US don't present a danger; but, not to the notion that what constitutes refugee eligibility for relocation here is being expanded.
There is a standard procedure for handing the trickle of émigrés day in and day out. A set or rules for the low level minions you make decisions without interrupting the boss' golf game. One of them is religious persecution but that's not the only reason and if they weren't Muslims it probably wouldn't even be mentioned, except for politics.
... Get real, less than 200 in Paris, they behead that many on a good day. Paris was a pisshole in a snowbank compared to what they're doing at home. Killing a few French doesn't recruit, the French retaliation, the airstrikes, are what they want and need to fire up recruitment drives. Westerners attacking the homeland fires up closet Jihadists to come out and fence sitters to fall their way.
Cause and effect, western response is predictable and reliable, that's reality. Trying to separate cause and effect in terms of eventual ramifications doesn't hold water.
... There is a standard procedure for handing the trickle of émigrés day in and day out. A set or rules for the low level minions you make decisions without interrupting the boss' golf game. One of them is religious persecution but that's not the only reason and if they weren't Muslims it probably wouldn't even be mentioned, except for politics.
Standards change with the political wind. That's why people have been protesting immigration policies forever. One has to separate the policies in practice from both the procedures and the law. This has been made apparent in other areas such as the American experience with the NSA. People think it's all good; until, they get blindsided with the fact that it's not because they dropped their vigilance.
Oh, and furthermore, have a Happy Thanksgiving. I'm away for the rest of the day. We'll chew the cud some more later.
I see you're still hell-bent on misrepresenting what other people in the Cellar have say. I said there was another argument out there and demonstrated that by citing it. No follow-up is required since I'm not advocating.
What did I misrepresent ?
Your link did not have "another argument" in it.
I went to the specific sections of the law it cited to see what argument(s) might be there.
I concluded there was NONE there.
I also invited you to cite one if you could.
Instead you come back typically with another of your insults.
You have simply bought into the going headlines and bullet points of the radical right.
Trying to duck an issue by precluding follow-up just because
you insert that "you are not advocating it" is cowardly.
.
Confidential to Lamplighter,
That's why I directed my initial comment to another individual. You're in and out of lucidity which is reflected in your interpretation of what others have to say as well as the inappropriateness of your responses; also, you're lack of awareness and/or denial of such when others point it out to you. It doesn't change how others here interact with each other: it only changes how they interact with you. This isn't just a function of age, it's something more.
I'm so sorry.
Nice to see nothing much has really changed around here. :)
This is just a test of tapatalk and it's picture loading.
Carry on.
How about those Syrian refugees?
This is an attempt to get that man ass off of my Tapatalk thread view.
Ask glatt to try taking the post with the image off the public board for a little while and restore it later. You don't have to tapatalk like a refugee (don't have to tapatalk like a refugee).
Maybe it's stuck because Tapatalk got the image set up before the server move and it thinks... nah that can't be it
Remove it, it may come up first because it's a GIF.
No need to remove it. There's a setting deep in a subfolder in tapatalk that lets you toggle image previews off. Fixed it for me.
Perhaps we can supersede that GIF with another, more user friendly one, for those who don't want; or, can't be bothered to change their settings.
[ATTACH]54292[/ATTACH]
Slate.
Today, Republican presidential candidates are climbing over one another in a race to block the entry of Syrian refugees. They’re doing this even though, among the nearly 800,000 refugees we’ve accepted since 9/11, not one has been convicted of—or has even been arrested for—plotting a terror attack in this country. (A few have been arrested for links to terrorism elsewhere.) Why do refugees have such a clean record? Because they have to go through an elaborate process: screening by U.N. evaluators, “biometric and biographic checks,” consultations with U.S. counterterrorism agencies, and an in-person interview with the Department of Homeland Security. On average, the process takes about a year and a half—or, in the case of Syrian refugees, about two years.
~cut~
That’s why, among the 27 fatal terror attacks inflicted in this country since 9/11, 20 were committed by domestic right-wing extremists. (The other seven attacks were committed by domestic jihadists, not by foreign terrorist organizations.) Of the 77 people killed in these 27 incidents, two-thirds died at the hands of anti-abortion fanatics, “Christian Identity” zealots, white anti-Semites, or other right-wing militants.
Meanwhile, in Iraq, the Iranians are winning the propaganda war and have the Iraqis actually believing that the USA is supplying ISIS with weapons and other supplies.
That's right. Iraqis actually think we support ISIS.We probably are. :rolleyes:
There have been multiple reports of bungled US airdrops of weapons and supplies falling into the hands of ISIS who got to them before the intended recipients could recover them.
That's happened way to often to be isolated incidents. One of the problems when the good guys and bad guys don't reliably hold specific territory, and you can't tell who's who from the air. ISIS might have ended up with part of the $2.5 Billion in US $100 bills that went missing in Iraq. :mad:
... ISIS might have ended up with part of the $2.5 Billion in US $100 bills that went missing in Iraq. :mad:
They're probably using those bills as toilet paper after all those MREs we've airdropped to them.
There have been some really fascinating articles lately about ISIS (or ISIL or Daesh or whatever the fuck we're calling them now). The stuff that's been snuck out of Syria and Iraq by some very brave individuals showing the statebuilding plans and long-term strategies of the new 'kaliphate' has been a real eyeopener. We think of them (or I certainly did) more like the kind of unstable warlords that often spring up in places where there's a civil war or an authority vacuum - but they are much more than that and the west really has to be careful not underestimate them.
And then there's this, whih I found really interesting. It's looking at this within a larger historical framework.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/08/trumps-hateful-rhetoric-feeds-into-age-old-west-v-islam-narrativeThat is an interesting perspective on this. We can't break those old stereotypes about each other without some kind of intercourse between the people of both civilizations but Trump and ISIS/Daesh have the same goal, stop the non-military contacts from taking place. The goal of each is a permanent state of war and they're both being successful. The other candidates don't appear interested in changing that dynamic much though.
Too tough to put that dynamic on a bumper sticker... or your hat.
It's not even history repeating itself, it's uninterrupted continuation.
That long article I linked in post #101 shows the rules and methodology of isis/isil.
There have been some really fascinating articles lately about ISIS (or ISIL or Daesh or whatever the fuck we're calling them now).
Daesh is best, because it's a derogitory term for them that the local people made up.
I suppose at this point pissing them off doesn't make any difference. :haha:
Daesh is best, because it's a derogitory term for them that the local people made up.
Is it? I didn't know that. Thanks!
I read an article about "Daesh" and while I don't completely understand the linguistics of it, it implies that they lack any legitimacy. That they are frauds. It somehow is a label that actually fits their group and yet says they are frauds at the same time. It's perfect because it identifies them and renounces their authority at the same time.
I misrememebred slightly.
"Daesh: This is a term the militant group hates. French President François Hollande has used it since the attacks Friday, and first used it in September 2014. It’s an Arabic acronym for “al-Dawla al-Islamiya fi al-Iraq wa al-Sham.” It can sometimes be spelled DAIISH, Da'esh or Daech, a popular French version. The hacktivist group Anonymous and President Barack Obama have used the term since the deadly terrorist attacks in Paris.
Thanks to Arabic wordplay, it could also be an insult. “Depending on how it is conjugated in Arabic, it can mean anything from ‘to trample down and crush’ to ‘a bigot who imposes his view on others,'" Boston Globe writer Zeba Khan reported in October 2014. ISIS threatened “to cut the tongue of anyone who publicly used the acronym Daesh, instead of referring to the group by its full name,” the Associated Press wrote in September 2014."
http://www.ibtimes.com/isil-isis-islamic-state-daesh-whats-difference-2187131♫Daeshing through the sand
In a clapped out old pickup
Shooting everything in sight
With a plan that is fucked up.
Ha Ha Ha Ha
♫Jingle shells, Daesh smells
Death is on the way
Oh what fun, to kill a nun
If the caliph has his way
Hehehehehehe. I like that.
So you've probably seen in the news that Canada is taking in a bunch of Syrian refugees.
I just learned that my brother and his Canadian wife and kids who live in Toronto have applied for and been approved to provide temporary housing for a refugee family in their own home.
Details are very scarce right now, but this will be interesting. I'll report back as I know more.
I've got huge respect for them though. They are part of the solution.
Christmas gift idea: body armor!
Canada, a nice place to learn French.
And parts of Quebec already have sharia law. :eyebrow:
Trump would probably like the idea of Americans who want to support Syrians moving to Canada. As President, he might even give them medals!
They may have just taken Abdeslam.
It would be nice if they got the Paris attack guy alive instead of killing him. They get off on the martyrdom, and keeping that propaganda from them would be good. Throw his ass in jail. Don't execute him.
I think they put a bullet in him because he needed one but took him alive.
They would have caught him earlier, trying to exchange currency at the border, if they hadn't gone to the Euro in 2001. C'est la vie.