Aliantha • Oct 14, 2014 10:28 pm
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“For the first time, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
announced Wednesday that global concentrations of heat-trapping greenhouse gases
in March passed 400 parts per million.
Lamplighter;932954 wrote:We've had 3 weeks of very warm weather in June, and our temps have been above the averages for July.
This has been happening in previous years, but it this year has most everyone's attention.<snip>
BigV;933933 wrote:...too easy to catch...
In addition to creating dangerously warm conditions, low water levels can leave fish stranded in deep pools with flows too low to permit their escape.


It’s a common theme when discussing Washington, DC to suggest that the political environment sinks lower every year,
slowly descending to a level where barely-sentient politicians fling poo at one another.
It’s also a popular joke that Washington, DC is build on an unstable swamp.
One of those things is definitely not true, but nonetheless geologists from the University of Vermont have found
that the land under the Chesapeake Bay – including Washington, DC – is literally sinking.
…
The sinking has to do with something called a forebulge, and its continued collapse.
Tens of thousands of years ago, during the last ice age,
a humongous ice sheet covering northern North America weighed so much
that it pushed the land around it away. In turn, that cause the land even further south to bulge upward.
Once the ice sheet began melting 20,000 years ago, the forebulge has slowly shrunk.
…
People didn’t melt the prehistoric ice sheet, and there’s precious little we could do to stop the land from leveling out.
Where climate change does come in, however, is the fact that the waters
of the Chesapeake Bay are rising at twice the global average rate and faster than elsewhere on the East Coast.
...
“It’s ironic that the nation’s capital—the place least responsive to the dangers of climate change
is sitting in one of the worst spots it could be in terms of this land subsidence,” said Paul Bierman,
a UVM geologist and the senior author on the new paper.
“Will the Congress just sit there with their feet getting ever wetter?
What’s next, forebulge denia l?”


...this is a natural cycle....
Did you see the asterisk next to "baloney"?Griff;935420 wrote:In that story the author says that it is a falsehood to claim that the climate has always changed.
What does "natural cycle" really mean ?
It's "natural" so therefore...
= acceptable ?
= unimportant ?
= uncontrollable ?
= not to be feared ?
= not of concern ?
= not fixable by society ?
Happy Monkey;935452 wrote:Did you see the asterisk next to "baloney"?
But Plait rolls out the "97% of climate scientists" not only sans asterisk, but doubles down on it with an opinion piece.A link to an entire article detailing his views on the study is like a super-asterisk, not sans-asterisk.
There is no reason to engage a politician if we are doing science.There is reason to engage politicians if the politics are attacking the science.
Real scientists don't have a side in this game because there is no SIDE in science!!! other than truth,All that leaves you with is defining anyone who you can actually hear from as not worth listening to. If a scientist decides to spend their time countering scientific misconceptions in the media, suddenly they're not a scientist, and they have no more credibility than Huckabee.
There is no reason to engage a politician if we are doing science.
Happy Monkey;935562 wrote:...
The self-contained "pox on both their houses" attitude is what the "merchants of doubt" are going for.
Just like with smoking and lung cancer, all they need is to make it seem like
the jury's still out as long as possible, so let's keep the status quo.
You may feel outside the "orange-purple" debate by pointing out exaggerations on both sides,
but that just leaves you supporting "team purple's" policies, whatever you say about their rhetoric.
All that leaves you with is defining anyone who you can actually hear from as not worth listening to.
If a scientist decides to spend their time countering scientific misconceptions in the media,
suddenly they're not a scientist, and they have no more credibility than Huckabee.
Most scientists don't have the temperament or inclination to do it, which is why there appears to be a "debate".
The self-contained "pox on both their houses" attitude is what the "merchants of doubt" are going for. Just like with smoking and lung cancer, all they need is to make it seem like the jury's still out as long as possible, so let's keep the status quo.
You may feel outside the "orange-purple" debate by pointing out exaggerations on both sides, but that just leaves you supporting "team purple's" policies, whatever you say about their rhetoric.
Undertoad;935591 wrote:The elephant in the room is the pause. For the last 18 years there has been, statistically speaking, no global warming; despite an ever-increasing concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere. Science tells us that now a majority of the CO2 mankind has added to the atmosphere has happened since this pause began.
Happy Monkey;935516 wrote:Not a lie; a good way, in print, to answer the meat of an argument, without sacrificing the detail.
classicman;933205 wrote:Speaking with other amateur mycologists,
the seasons are starting much earlier and the quantities are dropping.
The past few years I've seen shrooms in June/July that shouldn't be around till Sept/Oct.
Dunno what it means in the grande scheme of things, but I'm sure its not good.
If you're talking about anti-pollution policies, there are many more reasons to combat pollution than global warming. Easier ones to display, as well - sludge dripping from pipes and barrels being dumped are more photogenic than invisible CO2. The toxins and radiation in coal ash are a better sell than CO2 as pollution, since any high school student knows that CO2 is what plants crave. The weight of the science on global warming has pulled the environmentalists away from other arguments. In fact, it has started to create some ambivalence on nuclear power, which the pre-global-warming "team orange" would have been almost unanimously against.Undertoad;935591 wrote:Team Orange had a hard-on for policies years before there was any scientific consensus of any nature. At one point the science was just a twinkle in Mr. Gore's professor's eye. A consensus of a handful. Team Orange policies beat consensus by a decade.
The elephant in the room is the pause. For the last 18 years there has been, statistically speaking, no global warming; despite an ever-increasing concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere. ... (The recent paper suggesting that it doesn't exist has met with skepticism.)The temperature graph has been a ratcheting zigzag, and has plenty of downturns. So far, they have all led to the next ratchet. Sure, maybe this one's different. Maybe we've hit the maximum CO2 contribution. But if a 18 year trend is an elephant, a hundred year trend is a whale.
Undertoad;935578 wrote:The debate in science, as you know, happens constantly and permanently.
"Delay policies until all the data is in" means "do nothing forever". The data is never all in. Chances are, little will be done before then, so we'll get that data anyway, though.Undertoad;935591 wrote:Shouldn't any policy wait for this new data and the new consensuses that result? That would be really amazingly pro-science.
In fact, it has started to create some ambivalence on nuclear power, which the pre-global-warming "team orange" would have been almost unanimously against.
But if a 18 year trend is an elephant, a hundred year trend is a whale.



Undertoad;935944 wrote:
A lot of Team Orange is SUPER angry over fracking. What do you make of that?
Lamplighter;935903 wrote:In a similar 1-on observation, our unusually warm weather in the PDX area seems
to have advanced the maple trees all the way from early August into October's autumn.
Maples leaves are yellowing on the trees, and we're seeing showers of leaves in mild breezes.
Likewise for some of the willows and locusts.
But then, maybe it's just a matter of drought rather than temp.
glatt;941262 wrote:Should we try to fix it?
The politicians and the public expect science to provide answers to the problems. Scientific experts are paid and encouraged to provide answers. The public does not have much use for a scientist who says, “Sorry, but we don’t know”. The public prefers to listen to scientists who give confident answers to questions and make confident predictions of what will happen as a result of human activities.
Over a million papers are published in scientific journals each year, and as Stanford University professor John Ioannidis wrote in a now legendary paper published to PLoS Medicine in 2005, most of their findings are false.
Consider the half of the land area of the earth that is not desert or ice-cap or city or road or parking-lot. This is the half of the land that is covered with soil and supports vegetation of one kind or another.Some is desert growing little or nothing and a large hunk is agricultural, dedicated to growing specific crops.
If we plant crops without plowing the soil, more of the biomass goes into roots which stay in the soil, and less returns to the atmosphere. If we use genetic engineering to put more biomass into roots, we can probably achieve much more rapid growth of topsoil.
~~~~~~~~~~
Greenhouse experiments show that many plants growing in an atmosphere enriched with carbon dioxide react by increasing their root-to-shoot ratio. This means that the plants put more of their growth into roots and less into stems and leaves. A change in this direction is to be expected, because the plants have to maintain a balance between the leaves collecting carbon from the air and the roots collecting mineral nutrients from the soil. The enriched atmosphere tilts the balance so that the plants need less leaf-area and more root-area. Now consider what happens to the roots and shoots when the growing season is over, when the leaves fall and the plants die. The new-grown biomass decays and is eaten by fungi or microbes. Some of it returns to the atmosphere and some of it is converted into topsoil. On the average, more of the above-ground growth will return to the atmosphere and more of the below-ground growth will become topsoil.
Undertoad;935591 wrote:We'll probably know a lot more by this time next year. El Nino should create new temp records, and after that, the temperature will fall, as it has with historical El Ninos.
