Our Militarized Society
I was thinking about the imposition of the "hammerhead" mindset while at a concert venue in Jersey a couple weekends back. Security looked like a mixed bag of ex-military, gym freaks, and college guys on break. It appeared pretty over the top but the camera drone flying around seemed to take it to the next level. They didn't "over-police" during the punk show which seemed to be an older crowd but during the sorta reggae event with the younger crowd they were pulling people out for drugs at a concert. I get the whole safety thing in our litigious society. The kids at the second concert looked for the most part like the sort of affluent suburbanites whose parents would break out the lawyers to defend their bubble wrapped world.
Then I started looking at images from St. Louis...
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/08/police_in_ferguson_military_weapons_threaten_protesters.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/police-militarization-ferguson-2014-8#ixzz3AD9HMciA (reuters photo)
Makes the European water cannon vans seem absolutely quaint.
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Reminds me of that Field of Dreams line.
"If you build it, they will come."
I heard last night the demonstrators were meeting the escalating police presence with Molotov cocktails. This situation seems to be moving in the wrong direction. Escalating instead of deescalating.
Makes the European water cannon vans seem absolutely quaint.
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Looks familiar. Birmingham 1963. So much for a post-racist society
Here's a collection of yesterday's images on Boing Boing.
Apparently there was a peaceful demonstration during the day, attended by religious leaders and covered by the media, and the police pulled out all their soldier gear to respond to that.
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Sniper aiming at the unarmed peaceful crowd. Amazing.
And then the cops went on to arrest two journalists charging their equipment in a nearby McDonalds.
Later that night, after the cops escalated things at a peaceful protest by showing up in armored vehicles and pointing their guns at the unarmed crowd, the hooligans responded by throwing Molotov cocktails.
I can't figure out how to imbed this video,
so here's a link to where it's hosted on Boing Boing.
A news crew in a very quiet neighborhood is set up on the sidewalk filming the cops a block away. They have lights and a camera on a tripod and a news van running with its headlights on.
The cops, without any warning, shoot a teargas canister right at tv reporters, driving them away and forcing them to abandon all their equipment. Then the cops come in and take down the tv lights and point the tv camera at the ground.
These cops are opening themselves up to serious litigation with their behavior. What they are doing is criminal.
Welcome to The New American Culture Of Fear™.
I saw those images on boingboing yesterday, it made me sick, angry, and sad. It also confirms what I've expounded on here several times, about police budget shortfalls being made up by the feds in the form of paramilitary training/equipment.
The police are one of building blocks of a civilized society. If you don't fund them, friend them, cooperate with them, and hold them accountable, then they will be working for someone else... and you won't like it.
Looks familiar. Birmingham 1963. So much for a post-racist society
NPR had a good interview with a Black minister who made a good point. While blacks are routinely treated badly by the police everyone should feel this.
I feel it. Am I comfortable during traffic stops? Absolutely not. We are heading toward a society where everyone is equal before the police, equally under suspicion, equally in danger of a smack down.
Am I comfortable during traffic stops? Absolutely not.
I know that feeling very well, but in the last few years I've changed my attitude. Years ago, working 2nd and 3rd shift, driving home at night, those roadblocks the local cops set up for drunks and seatbelt violations were scary. Those guys were really obnoxious, so if I wasn't old and white I would have taken extraordinary steps to avoid them.
Now I try to plan routes which are mostly out of state and when I get pulled over I remind myself it's only going to cost me money. I try to pull over where the cop is reasonably safe leaving the cruiser. I'm friendly rather than sullen, and have all my papers in order when he/she approaches the car. I don't argue or make excuses, just yeah, you got me. My percentage of 'just a warning' has skyrocketed... really.
In the OP photo, I'm amused by the tactical officers wearing bright, tan, desert boots ... an urban-camo fashion faux pas.
Meh. Looting and setting fire to things. That'll help.
Tips For Being An Unarmed Black Teen
•Shy away from dangerous, heavily policed areas.
•Avoid swaggering or any other confident behavior that suggests you are not completely subjugated.
•Be sure not to pick up any object that could be perceived by a police officer as a firearm, such as a cell phone, a food item, or nothing.
•Explain in clear and logical terms that you do not enjoy being shot, and would prefer that it not happen.
•Don’t let society stereotype you as a petty criminal. Remember that you can be seen as so much more, from an armed robbery suspect, to a rape suspect, to a murder suspect.
•Try to see it from a police officer’s point of view: You may be unarmed, but you’re also black.
•Avoid wearing clothing associated with the gang lifestyle, such as shirts and pants.
•Revel in the fact that by simply existing, you exert a threatening presence over the nation’s police force.
•Be as polite and straightforward as possible when police officers are kicking the shit out of you.
linkAmazing how when the State Police took over from the local cops and showed up dressed like this:
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the reaction from the crowds was like this:
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Oh yes! Tom Tomorrow's Officer Friendly nails it, Spex. :thumb:
Oh man! I am loving that comic strip. I followed the link and haven't been able to break away for half an hour :P
Tom Tomorrow is a classic. One of those cartoonists who can plow away the bullshit and cut straight to the heart of the matter. Of course if one were of a conservative bent, one might not find it quite as entertaining. :haha:
Amazing how when the State Police took over from the local cops and showed up dressed like this:
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the reaction from the crowds was like this:
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Damn good news that some police can be professional.
In the OP photo, I'm amused by the tactical officers wearing bright, tan, desert boots ... an urban-camo fashion faux pas.
They're gonna get laughed off the paintball course.
Really good Ross Douthat column in the NYT yesterday
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/17/opinion/sunday/ross-douthat-playing-soldier-in-the-suburbs.html
Last week, The New Republic’s Alec MacGillis ran the numbers for Missouri and found that the state’s Department of Public Safety received about $69 million from the Department of Homeland Security in the past five years alone. Which helps explain why the streets of a St. Louis suburb flooded so quickly with cops in gas masks and camouflage, driving armored cars and brandishing rifles like an occupying army. It’s our antiterror policies made manifest, our tax dollars at work.
And it’s a path to potential disaster, for cops and citizens alike. The “S” in SWAT was there for a reason: Militarized tactics that are potentially useful in specialized circumstances — like firefights with suicidal terrorist groups — can be counterproductive when employed for crowd-control purposes by rank-and-file cops. (The only recent calm on Ferguson’s streets came after state cops started walking through the crowds in blue uniforms, behaving like police instead of storm troopers.)
To many critics of police militarization, of course, the helmets and heavy weaponry are just symptoms. The disease is the entire range of aggressive police tactics (from no-knock raids to stop-and-frisk), the racial disparities they help perpetuate and our society’s drug laws and extraordinary incarceration rate.
years ago, i was a ballistic breecher on my tac team for the drug task force. we only geared up for felony warrants where the suspect was likely armed. we rode in an old donated bread truck.
police are going way to far with these armored vehicles and other surplus equipment. the main thing is most of them don't have a clue to how to use it.
btw, i support the officer. he had this 300 lb kid pounding him and when he tried to take him into custody the guy charged him. fits totally within the accepted use of force continuum.
Yeah, the kid was big... don't let him take control, big. I'm sure the cop went from wary to scared to panic very quickly. It's a shame it ended like that, but I can think of a couple equally bad endings. From that point on it's like the contrived script from a Bollywood movie.
The witnesses said, boy=good, cop=bad. No surprise there. I can see them all wearing warn-a-brother shirts, locked arm in arm, high kicking in unison like the Rockettes. This is the reaction to years of cops covering up mistakes/misbehavior by cops, truth be damned. First allowing, then (probably as part of rationalizing to others & themselves) condoning, finally approving, cops bullying citizens.
I've seen it to many times. I can understand a cop thrown into a situation where things could go bad in a hurry, so he/she must be large and in charge quickly. No, we will not discuss it, you will do what I say. That said, I've seen some sadistic fuckers who have no business wearing a badge, abusing scared and bewildered people, for no discernible reason other than breaking the boredom, or perversion.
It's part of the polarization of America. Aiding the divide and conquer strategy to retain control of the minions, by the oligarchs. Strategy, is giving them too much credit, though. They do guide and nudge, but the path to division is human nature. There must be an Us and Them, otherwise I wouldn't know who to watch out for, and more importantly I wouldn't have anyone to blame when I fuck up.
The autopsy would seem to suggest that the witnesses who say he had his arms up in surrender were right. The bullet wounds (all six of them) suggest that he had his hands raised into the air and was at some distance away when he was shot.
What a well written article. Made me want to cry.
...
btw, i support the officer. he had this 300 lb kid pounding him and when he tried to take him into custody the guy charged him. fits totally within the accepted use of force continuum.
I don't think either side's version has been vetted properly yet.
The witnesses said, boy=good, cop=bad. No surprise there. I can see them all wearing warn-a-brother shirts, locked arm in arm, high kicking in unison like the Rockettes. This is the reaction to years of cops covering up mistakes/misbehavior by cops, truth be damned. First allowing, then (probably as part of rationalizing to others & themselves) condoning, finally approving, cops bullying citizens.
Maybe not a civilian/cop issue so much as a black/white issue
It's part of the polarization of America. Aiding the divide and conquer strategy to retain control of the minions, by the oligarchs. Strategy, is giving them too much credit, though. They do guide and nudge, but the path to division is human nature. There must be an Us and Them, otherwise I wouldn't know who to watch out for, and more importantly I wouldn't have anyone to blame when I fuck up.
True dat
What a well written article. Made me want to cry.
It could also be a nicely written work of fiction. Notice the lack of details as to location or identity of persons involved. Her only photograph is of a vacant sidewalk. No sign of street musicians, etc.
As far as the autopsy, the only released reporting is from the forensic pathologist hired by the family. His assistant was interviewed on CNN and admitted that they didn't know what wounds might have been caused in the car and the autopsy could not refute the officer's account.
supporting the officer is
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/18/report-more-than-a-dozen-witnesses-have-corroborated-officer-darren-wilsons-version-of-ferguson-shooting/
In use of force classes I taught for years, we played video tapes illustrating that a person with a knife at a distance of 26 feet could rush and stab an officer before he could draw his weapon. This is info is to illustrate the danger zone for officers.
We had an injured officer facing a man that seconds before had tried to take his gun. If the officer was in legitimate fear of his life (I would have been), he was justified in shooting to stop the threat of a charging much larger assailant.
Don't think Big Mike is such a sweet little lad. Minutes before he had committed a strong armed robbery where he had turned back as leaving the store and advanced again on that victim.
Two sides to a coin. What would you have done if he was charging you with intent to commit another felonious act??
I don't think either side's version has been vetted properly yet.
True words. The cop who shot the kid may end up being the only innocent person in this whole mess... or not. Importantly, he events have finally shined a light on the direction policing is going in this country.
I see Egypt is criticizing our use of force. If Egypt is scoring on you you're running the wrong defense.
It could also be a nicely written work of fiction. Notice the lack of details as to location or identity of persons involved. Her only photograph is of a vacant sidewalk. No sign of street musicians, etc.
We know who wrote it, it's on her webpage, complete with her picture. She said los Angeles, does the street address make a difference?
I doubt she got the name of the street performer, and bet she didn't get the names of the hecklers. Would the name of the man make a difference? Gonna run him through R & I for his rap sheet to see if he ever sat on bench W?
C'mon, you were looking for ants with a magnifying glass, and missed the anthill. :rolleyes:
Pia Glenn is an actress and not a reporter. Her ex is Salman Rushdie says she is unstable.
A furious Rushdie told us yesterday, “The reason I broke up with Pia Glenn is that I came to feel that she’s an unstable person who carries around a large, radioactive bucket of stress wherever she goes. It was just exhausting to deal with.
“Her recent explosions . . . demonstrate that she is also an accomplished liar.
“It is hard even to list the untruths in her article. We never lived together — she lived at her father’s home in Freeport, LI. We never agreed to have children together. Our relationship lasted five and a half months, so it’s hard to see how I ‘stole a year’ of her life.
“What most distresses me, however, is her statement that I am still ‘obsessed’ with my ex-wife, Padma Lakshmi. When my marriage to Padma ended I was saddened and hurt, that’s true, but that was two and a half years ago, and, like any adult, I have accepted the world as it is.
“As any of my friends can attest, I long ago turned the page and moved on. It’s absurd of Ms. Glenn to say otherwise. I wish Padma nothing but the best, particularly now that she is expecting, and have written to her to congratulate her. End of story.”
To make matters worse, Rushdie said Glenn had besieged him with calls, forcing him to hang up. He said, “She is plainly confused, and desperate for attention. I’m sorry for her and I hope she gets well soon.”
Rushdie added in a statement: “She’s broke, unemployed . . . and obviously decided to sell me out.
Pia is also one of the famous panelists that made fun of Mitt Romney's grandson.
When the photo was put up, things started off light with Perry saying, “Everybody loves a baby picture, and this was one that really, a lot of people had emotions about this baby picture this year. This is the Romney family. And, of course, there on Governor Romney’s knee is his adopted grandson, who is an African-American, adopted African-American child, Kieran Romney.”
From there, the jokes came with panelist Pia Glenn singing, “One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just isn’t the same.” She joked after her song that “that little baby, front and center, would be the one.”
- See more at: http://madamenoire.com/336678/melissa-harris-perry-msnbc-panel-hot-water-joking-mitt-romneys-black-grandson/#sthash.dg4HFNsz.dpuf
She really seems to lack credibility if you read some of tweets
Interesting piece in the Guardian:
It’s difficult to view citizens as partners when you’re looking at them through a Kevlar helmet and a riot shield – or when you have failed to build a culture of trust and then you add military equipment and tactics to a combustible mix of racial discrimination and little police accountability. This explosive combination makes policing significantly less effective, and dramatically less safe for everybody.
It’s no wonder so many cops – like some of those in Ferguson, Missouri – view their own community as the enemy when they spend their time geared for combat. It’s no wonder why they, in return, are viewed as an occupying force.
I was the city police chief during 1999’s so-called “Battle in Seattle,” the clash between anti-globalization protesters and my police officers. I realize now that the way we looked – and the way we behaved – provoked and exacerbated the violence. My decision to authorize the use of so-called “hard gear” (black uniforms with ballistic helmets and face shields, and the use of chemical agents) in our interactions with nonviolent, nonthreatening World Trade Organization demonstrators heightened tensions and put everyone – cops and citizens – at greater risk. The militarization of the WTO protests did untold damage to our efforts to build a positive, trusting partnership with our community.
It may be too late to have prevented violence in Ferguson, but the community and others like it must come together now and make immediate changes to establish a baseline of behavior for law enforcement – to abide by today and to build upon for the future. The situation in Ferguson is no longer just about Michael Brown’s death: it’s about systemic racism and patterns of neglect, about leadership and the ability to influence angry, sometimes criminally motivated, individuals. Beyond the lifted curfews and long after the National Guard’s presence attempts to restore some semblance of peace, real accountability for everyone’s actions – cops and citizens – is imperative.
-snip-
Meanwhile, the police department needs to immediately begin a process of demilitarization and replace the military model with a community policing model. As part of that, they should adopt the “Memphis model” of crisis intervention – requiring every employee to undergo a week of intensive training in defusing and de-escalation techniques conducted by mental health and communications experts. And they need to prohibit Swat operations for anything other than school shootings, armed hostage situations and other immediate crises when negotiations fail and lives are at stake. So should every police department in America.
It’s clear that Ferguson’s police officers, politicians and community leaders haven’t yet really embraced a philosophy of “community policing”, and that they weren’t working in partnership to identify and solve crime, traffic and other community-police problems – not with a police force that is 93% white in a city that is two-thirds black, or with a trove of military garb waiting in the wings. Some in the Ferguson area, like Missouri State Highway Patrol Captain Ron Johnson, understand the basics. But you can’t reverse the effects of years of military-style policing in a few hours of walking among protesters.
Still, law enforcement officers in Ferguson – and in so many other places – need to start somewhere. They need to start here ... or else they’ll just keep failing in all the same ways
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/19/ferguson-police-force-punish-copsThe community oriented policing has not worked well. NYC is using the broken window system and is having more success. I do agree with all of you that the police are becoming far too militarized and causes long term problems.
A little update on the officer - he suffered an orbital blowout fracture to his eye socket.
Pia Glenn is an actress and not a reporter.
So what? It's not breaking news, she wrote about one incident she observed/experienced, and the undercurrent of feelings by people who consider this a never ending story. I accept that you don't get it, and never will.
Her ex is Salman Rushdie says she is unstable.
Your opinion of her is based on her ex badmouthing her? OMG :facepalm:
Sarge, I think a lot of people would agree that the actual incident is muddy, and maybe the cop was even right. Even if he wasn't, bad shootings happen all the time; it's unfortunate but not stunning. The *problem* is how Ferguson has handled the protests, turning them into riots when they didn't need to be.
I am a huge supporter of the "broken window" philosophy as well.
The *problem* is how Ferguson has handled the protests, turning them into riots when they didn't need to be.
Considering that alternatives up 'til now haven't worked, what should the response have been? It's just a modern Boston Tea Party.
Here's an interesting piece -
In 2013, British police officers fired their weapons all of three times. No one died.
http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-08-18/how-many-times-british-cops-fired-guns-all-last-year-3What's the "broken window" philosophy?
Considering that alternatives up 'til now haven't worked, what should the response have been? It's just a modern Boston Tea Party.
Here's an interesting piece -
In 2013, British police officers fired their weapons all of three times. No one died.
http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-08-18/how-many-times-british-cops-fired-guns-all-last-year-3
Looks like the Brits need more target practice.
I took this from wiki rather tediously typing a response from my text books:
The broken windows theory was first introduced by social scientists James Q. Wilson and George L. Kelling, in an article titled "Broken Windows" which appeared in the March 1982 edition of The Atlantic Monthly.[1] The title comes from the following example:
Consider a building with a few broken windows. If the windows are not repaired, the tendency is for vandals to break a few more windows. Eventually, they may even break into the building, and if it's unoccupied, perhaps become squatters or light fires inside.
Or consider a pavement. Some litter accumulates. Soon, more litter accumulates. Eventually, people even start leaving bags of refuse from take-out restaurants there or even break into cars.
Before the introduction of this theory by Wilson and Kelling, Philip Zimbardo, a Stanford psychologist, arranged an experiment testing the broken-window theory in 1969. Zimbardo arranged for an automobile with no license plates and the hood up to be parked idle in a Bronx neighbourhood and a second automobile in the same condition to be set up in Palo Alto, California. The car in the Bronx was attacked within minutes of its abandonment. Zimbardo noted that the first "vandals" to arrive were a family – a father, mother and a young son – who removed the radiator and battery. Within twenty four hours of its abandonment, everything of value had been stripped from the vehicle. After that, the car's windows were smashed in, parts torn, upholstery ripped, and children were using the car as a playground. At the same time, the vehicle sitting idle in Palo Alto, California sat untouched for more than a week. Then Zimbardo himself went up to the vehicle and deliberately smashed it with a sledgehammer. Soon after, people joined in for the destruction. Zimbardo observed that majority of the adult "vandals" in both cases were primarily well dressed, clean-cut and respectable whites. It is believed that in a neighborhood such as the Bronx where the history of abandoned property and theft are more prevalent, vandalism occurs much more quickly as the community generally seems apathetic. Similar events can occur in any civilized community when communal barriers – the sense of mutual regard and obligations of civility – are lowered by actions that suggests apathy.[1][page needed]
The article received a great deal of attention and was very widely cited. A 1996 criminology and urban sociology book, Fixing Broken Windows: Restoring Order and Reducing Crime in Our Communities by George L. Kelling and Catharine Coles, is based on the article but develops the argument in greater detail. It discusses the theory in relation to crime and strategies to contain or eliminate crime from urban neighborhoods.[2]
A successful strategy for preventing vandalism, say the book's authors, is to fix the problems when they are small. Repair the broken windows within a short time, say, a day or a week, and the tendency is that vandals are much less likely to break more windows or do further damage. Clean up the sidewalk every day, and the tendency is for litter not to accumulate (or for the rate of littering to be much less). Problems do not escalate and thus respectable residents do not flee a neighborhood.
Although work done by the police is crucial towards crime prevention, Oscar Newman, in his 1972 book, Defensible Space, explained that the presence of the police authority is just not enough for a safe and crime-free city. People in the community also need to lend a hand towards crime prevention. The theory that Newman proposes is that people will take care of and protect their own spaces they feel they have an investment in, arguing that an area will eventually be safer if the people feel a sense of ownership and responsibility towards the area. The reason why broken windows and acts of vandalism are still prevalent is because communities simply do not seem to care about the damage. Regardless of how many times the windows have been repaired, the society still has to invest some of their time to keep it safe. The negligence of society towards any form of a "broken window" signifies a lack of concern for the community. Newman states this as a clear sign that the society has accepted this disorder, allowing for the unrepaired broken windows to display the vulnerability and lack of defense against the situation.[3] Malcolm Gladwell also relates this theory to the reality of NYC in his book The Tipping Point.[4]
The theory thus makes two major claims: that further petty crime and low-level anti-social behavior will be deterred, and that major crime will be prevented as a result. Criticism of the theory has tended to focus only on the latter claim.
I'd heard of that "broken window" theory before, but it has nothing to do with policing. It's about a society keeping the neighborhood in good repair.
Is there some sort of "broken window" theory for policing?
yes, it means establishing a zero tolerance policy in the belief that by prosecuting people for minor crimes, it will deter them from committing major crimes in the future. it has shown success in many urban areas.
Here's a video prank that shows some people seem predisposed to prejudice
[YOUTUBE]watch?v=hgExTrqH0n8[/YOUTUBE]
guys, i apologize for being so pig headed. some of you know my situation in Federal Court, 5th Circuit. I have to give a deposition in a little more than hour. i have transferred emotions
Do what you gotta do, Sarge. Good luck, see you after.
Sarge - no apologies necessary. Even without what you're going through - it is entirely natural for someone with your connections to the police to see this through that lens. You know what it is like to be in a position where the danger may come from anywhere and anyone and you have to react lightening fast.
Good luck with your deposition :)
Further to that point - I think this is one of the reasons very few British police support the idea of being routinely armed. If it becomes standard practice to carry a weapon - it's a short step for it to become standard practice to draw that weapon on approaching any potential situation - and that tends to lead to people being shot. That and the fact that if the police are routinely armed then it wuoldn;t be too long before the criminals were routinely armed. Right now, some are, but it's nowhere near as ubiquitous as it seems in the US.
Even so - even with only specialist response teams armed we still have fucks ups anc those fuck ups are usually black lads getting shot. Usually this is followed by an attempt to smear the reputation of the dead black boy (right down to operating surveillance on the grieving family and friends) and a closing of ranks - cue years of wrangling before any enquiry gets underway.
The riots a couple of years ago in the UK were sparked by the police shooting a black man who they thought was armed but who wasn't.
I think the broken window policy of policing is [strike]stupid[/strike] doomed to failure.
First of all, it can never actually happen, that there'll be a zero tolerance approach to crimes. There will **always** be crime, large and small, and the hope that by enforcing criminal prosecution of every crime, no matter how small, will prevent crimes in the future is an unprovable fantasy.
Let me ask you, those of you who support such an approach, give me an example of another zero-tolerance policy that has succeeded in the prevention of transgressions? What about zero-tolerance for weapons or drugs in schools? What about abstinence only policies for sexual behavior? Mandatory minimum sentencing in our courts? What about "broken-window-policing" in any location, anywhere? Where has it worked?
It hasn't. Because there *are* crimes/drugs/weapons/sexing/whatever happening, the enforcement will, almost by definition be selective. THAT'S the problem. Which transgressors are selected, and the justification that "we have a zero-tolerance policy against that" gives a official fig leaf for the enforcers, and can be blithely ignored when that is more convenient. It is inevitable, inescapable that the rules will be enforced selectively.
Imagine if it were not; is it even desirable to have everyone who is driving over the speed limit by any amount stopped? How is that even possible? Where will we get enough cops and prosecutors and jailers? How can that be sustained? And who the fuck wants that?
The worst part is that I, and I believe most others in my community, want police officers who are thoughtful, who exercise good judgement, who can and will choose among the range of responses they have to the infinite situations they face in my neighborhood and not just reflexively, mechanically "following orders".
Sarge, I think a lot of people would agree that the actual incident is muddy, and maybe the cop was even right. Even if he wasn't, bad shootings happen all the time; it's unfortunate but not stunning. The *problem* is how Ferguson has handled the protests, turning them into riots when they didn't need to be.
--snip
Bullseye. Exactly right.
Let me ask you, those of you who support such an approach, give me an example of another zero-tolerance policy that has succeeded in the prevention of transgressions?
Well, there
was that one little future terrorist that nibbled his Pop-Tart into the vague shape of a pistol...
he ain't killed nobody lately.
Must be working.
Sarge, I read this article and thought of you. It's a veteran itemizing the weapons, ammunition, and equipment used against the protesters in Ferguson.
http://www.thenation.com/article/181315/catalog-ferguson-police-weaponry
There is a growing chorus of military veterans who have chimed in on the absurdity of photographs like this one. Let me join the parade. What we’re seeing here is a gaggle of cops wearing more elite killing gear than your average squad leader leading a foot patrol through the most hostile sands or hills of Afghanistan. They are equipped with Kevlar helmets, assault-friendly gas masks, combat gloves and knee pads (all four of them), woodland Marine Pattern utility trousers, tactical body armor vests, about 120 to 180 rounds for each shooter, semiautomatic pistols attached to their thighs, disposable handcuff restraints hanging from their vests, close-quarter-battle receivers for their M4 carbine rifles and Advanced Combat Optical Gunsights. In other words, they’re itching for a fight. A big one. It’s a well-known horror that the US military greets foreign peoples in this fashion as our politicians preach freedom, democracy and peace. It’s an abomination that the police greet black communities in the States with the same trigger-happy posture. Especially on the occasion of an unarmed teen’s death by cop.
Considering that alternatives up 'til now haven't worked, what should the response have been? It's just a modern Boston Tea Party.
Sorry, I mean Ferguson the police officers, not Ferguson the community. The community protested, the police response turned them into riots when they didn't need to be.
I think the broken window policy of policing is stupid doomed to failure.
First of all, it can never actually happen, that there'll be a zero tolerance approach to crimes. There will **always** be crime, large and small, and the hope that by enforcing criminal prosecution of every crime, no matter how small, will prevent crimes in the future is an unprovable fantasy.
Let me ask you, those of you who support such an approach, give me an example of another zero-tolerance policy that has succeeded in the prevention of transgressions? What about zero-tolerance for weapons or drugs in schools? What about abstinence only policies for sexual behavior? Mandatory minimum sentencing in our courts? What about "broken-window-policing" in any location, anywhere? Where has it worked?
You misunderstand, "broken window" policing is nothing like a classic zero tolerance policy. I'll give you THE example: New York City.
For years, the NY subways were a sewer of crime. Muggings, murder, open air prostitution in front of other passengers--not just the soliciting of, but the actual sex. The police were run ragged trying to keep up with all the crimes being committed down there, and barely making a dent.
Then a new police chief came in, a follower of the "broken windows" philosophy. And what he said was, forget the murders and muggings. We're obviously not stopping them anyway. Instead, we now do two things, and only two things--we catch, arrest, and fine every single fare-jumper, and we get rid of
all graffiti. The trains had turnaround tunnels at the end of every line, and they literally stationed dozens of painters inside those turnaround stations who would paint over new graffiti within minutes of it going on. Meanwhile other staff would climb inside and clean every marker tag the punks had drawn on in the last hour, fix every broken seat. Kids would break in to the train yards at night to draw these massive tagged murals on the trains, and they didn't even try to keep them out. They just hired overnight painters to stand there and follow behind them, painting over it right in front of them, before the spraypaint was even dry. For the fare-jumping (and keep in mind, at this point approximately 70% of riders were fare-jumping,) they placed officers at every single turnstile, and handcuffed each one they caught together in a line, and made them stand there publicly until they had about 20. Then they marched them up to the street where a roving "police station" bus would come by and process each arrest and issue a fine within an hour.
And what happened next is exactly what the "broken windows" philosophy said would happen: with the
environment changed, the fundamental social attitude of the people riding the trains changed. Muggings and murders plummeted. Normal people have the capacity to turn into thugs when placed in an environment where they feel everything is permitted, but normal people also have the capacity to hold themselves to a higher standard when the environment declares that this is not a place of chaos.
It worked so well that the police chief in question was brought in to be a consultant for the city as a whole when Giuliani was elected, and they did the same thing there: quit chasing endless murders. Instead, get the hookers off the streets, get the aggressive panhandlers out of Time Square, get the graffiti down everywhere. And again, major crimes plummeted all on their own, once these minor crimes were aggressively targeted. And not "aggressively" in terms of punishment, but in terms of swiftness and guarantee of getting caught. Studies have shown that the average person will not even risk a $5 fine if they are certain to be caught, but they will risk a $5000 fine if the chances are less than 50% that they'll get caught.
Why yes, I
did just finish Malcolm Gladwell's "The Tipping Point," which details the NY crime story in great detail and also goes into several other examples of broken windows theory being applied with great success, why do you ask? :)
Sorry, this stuff excites me.
Using "broken window" policies in schools, for example, would mean putting kids in uniforms; taking two minutes at the end of every single class period to check for gum under the desks, and making the student sitting at that desk clean it off right then and there; and again, getting the graffiti off the walls every single night.
Do that, and the weapons and gang activity and drug dealing go down all on their own. It's counter-intuitive, but it's been shown to work.
Thanks for that explanation. It sounds very smart, and I support it too.
Yes, Clodfobble, thank you for your explanation. I would revise my remarks based on what I've read. I stand by my point that zero-tolerance policies are approximately equal to zero-intelligence/zero-hope-for-success-policies. But as you point out, "broken windows policing" IS NOT the same as zero-tolerance for crimes, even a subset of crimes. Respectfully, Big Sarge was wrong to explain it that way.
Not that he's alone; many people,
many police agencies have interpreted "broken windows policing" in the same wrong way (and they're just as hosed for so doing).
In other agencies though, broken windows policing has been synonymous with zero tolerance policing, in which disorder is aggressively policed and all violators are ticketed or arrested. The broken windows approach is far more nuanced than zero tolerance allows, at least according to Kelling and Coles (1996) and so it would seem unfair to evaluate its effectiveness based on the effectiveness of aggressive arrest-based approaches that eliminate officer discretion. Thus, one problem may be that police departments are not really using broken windows policing when they claim to be.
The link leads to a short section that describes the evidence of the effects of broken windows policing, which is mixed. The goal of such a policy is to reduce social disorder, and a reduction in crime as one of the side effects.
Briefly, the model focuses on the importance of disorder (e.g. broken windows) in generating and sustaining more serious crime. Disorder is not directly linked to serious crime; instead, disorder leads to increased fear and withdrawal from residents, which then allows more serious crime to move in because of decreased levels of informal social control. The police can play a key role in disrupting this process. If they focus in on disorder and less serious crime in neighborhoods that have not yet been overtaken by serious crime, they can help reduce fear and resident withdrawal. Promoting higher levels of informal social control will help residents themselves take control of their neighborhood and prevent serious crime from infiltrating.
Long story short: there is no consensus as to the effectiveness of such a policy. In my opinion, broken windows policing is like a specialized tooth, say, a canine, in the effort to take a bite out of crime; good for what it does, grab and hold. A mouthful of only canines though, or broken window policers is effective in a limited range of situations. Much better to have a varied set of teeth, multiple approaches to cut, tear, and grind up the criminal element.
This link describes what's working and what's not in my own city's police department.The police incident probably wouldn't have happened if that Ferguson neighborhood had a community watch.
Maybe they could get George Zimmerman to organize one.
In the OP photo, I'm amused by the tactical officers wearing bright, tan, desert boots ... an urban-camo fashion faux pas.
I just read a book(!), Zero History by William Gibson, the cross-over of military clothing to street fashion was one of it's main plot devices.
Hey guys, there is more than one form of broken window. As you surmise, I used the pattern I described. This was based upon my tenure of a vice/narcotics task force. Over my years I saw the transition in my area from Chicago based gangs to Meth heads with ties to Mexican Cartels through McAllen, TX. My articles were regularly published in the DEA Quarterly Intelligence Bulletin, MS Association of Drug Enforcement Officers, and Police magazine. I was one of the major "preachers". I did this after working as a DARE and GREAT officer in the schools. In addition. I was writing grants for universal hire under the COPS (Community Oriented Policing) program funded by DOJ. Essentially, I chose what worked best for communities that were besieged with street level narcotics dealers and resulting in related crime to drug abuse. If you do a search for me under TOP Cops, you will see the award I received. Also, you can pull up articles I published in Police magazine. Warning, you will probably see other things to include a major First Amendment case and others. I have stated here before, I wasn't that nice of a person for quite awhile. I guess I should mention I am currently involved with a use of force case in the 5th Circuit.
As far as the equipment being used in Ferguson, the vehicles and weapons are not from the Defense Re-utilization Program. The only items I saw that were likely from the military are the knee/elbow pads, kevlar helmets, and uniforms. I saw none of the MRAPs or HMMWVs that have been the point of contention. The weapons, vehicles, LRAD, radios, and chemical munitions would have come from grants under the Dept of Homeland Security. I know because I have written grants through both. Don't listen to the crap about tanks from the media. They are not available to law enforcement agencies.
But did you ever wear your rank on your elbow?
[ATTACH]48904[/ATTACH]
Nope, I had mine tattooed on my butt a long time ago. It is kind of droopy, but I'll post a pic if you want, but it is a few years old. I am grayer now.
Soooo....does the 'incorrect' version of 'no broken window' policy explain the preponderance of stop and frisk (and pull-overs) on people of color?
Or is it just another way to fill prisons?
stop and frisk based upon Terry vs. Ohio is a great tool. Since NYPD has been forced to curtail their practice, there has been a rise in gun violence. Another fantastic tool is RICCO. I can get you convicted based upon association rather than overt criminal act.
Man, that was close...
...I almost stated an opinion.
On a hot-button issue!:eek:
Man, that was close...
...I almost stated an opinion.
On a hot-button issue!:eek:
I understand, brother. I bet you have heard in Kentucky about how easy it is to convict on conspiracy.
Heads up. Everything I post tonight is PWD as of right now
oh well. i guess you did see i'm not the person you think. yes, it was janet reno presenting the award for my law enforcement using the broken window
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Attorney+General+Janet+Reno+And+Celebrities+Who+Portray+Cops+to+Honor...-a063861539
at least this is something light hearted
http://www.policemag.com/channel/patrol/articles/2004/11/the-beat.aspxhisOh dear.
A police officer involved in the protests over Michael Brown’s death in Ferguson, Missouri, has been relieved of his duty after video surfaced of him describing black people as “little perverts” and Barack Obama as an illegal immigrant.
Dan Page – who was seen live on CNN earlier this week threatening to arrest the network’s anchor Don Lemon – was recorded in April giving a speech in which he railed against Muslims and gay people, saying: “I’m into diversity – I kill everybody.”
Page is the second St Louis county officer to have been stood down in controversial circumstances surrounding the Ferguson protests. Lieutenant Ray Albers was suspended on Wednesday after video emerged of him pointing his assault weapon at protestors and threatening to kill them.
In his speech, Page, who claims to have been a sergeant major in the US army and a Vietnam war veteran, sharply criticised laws intended to protect minorities from racially-motivated hatred and to help increase ethnic diversity.
Citing the US declaration of independence’s statement that “all men are created equal,” he said: “That does not mean affirmative action. It means we’re all equal … God does not respect persons so we have no business passing hate crime laws.”
“This here”, he added, brandishing a copy of the Bible, “is the foundation for this”, meaning the declaration of independence. “You can’t separate them. I don’t know what them black little perverts don’t understand down there.”
-snip-
At one point during a slideshow of his past travels, Page displayed a photograph of himself in Kenya. “I said I wanna go find where that illegal alien claiming to be my president, my undocumented president, lives at.” He has previously said in interviews that he retired from the army because of Obama.
snip-
Later in his remarks, Page told a questioner in the audience: “Policemen are very cynical. I know I am. I don’t trust anybody. I hate everybody. I hate y’all, too. I hate everybody. I’m into diversity – I kill everybody. I don’t care.”
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/22/police-officer-video-relieved-black-people-ferguson-dan-pageHe is one of...three, I think...that have been relieved of duty due to comments about or actions involving Ferguson.
Those remarks were made in April I think. So, that was his attitude before the Ferguson thing kicked off.
It was prior to Ferguson. If you listen to the whole speech and look at his background (9 combat tours), you will quickly see that he has issues and has developed paranoia about the government. He needs help and he needs to retire from the PD or go into a strictly administrative role. He is definitely us against them.
Well guys, it looks like I might have been wrong. A new audio tape has surfaced showing a 3 second break in the firing sequence. I guess I might need to get back on the fence and not be blinded by emotion for the officer. Fundraising for the officer unbelievable through gofundme.com The first round raised $234,910.00 in a week. A second fundraiser is underway with over $130,000.00. Don't forget he is still receiving his salary.
He might get 10 years for violating the Brown's civil rights, but at the rate it is going he will walk out quite wealthy.
The first round raised $234,910.00 in a week. A second fundraiser is underway with over $130,000.00.
Wow, that's a lot of racists!
Well guys, it looks like I might have been wrong. A new audio tape has surfaced showing a 3 second break in the firing sequence. I guess I might need to get back on the fence and not be blinded by emotion for the officer.
Even if he's a raving racist, the system in that town that existed before him, funneled him into the fear and loathing which sparked his actions. Nobody wins. :(
School police departments across the country have taken advantage of free military surplus gear, stocking up on mine resistant armored vehicles, grenade launchers and scores of M16 rifles.
At least 26 school districts have participated in the Pentagon's surplus program, which is not new but has come under scrutiny after police responded to protesters in Ferguson, Missouri, last month with tear gas, armored military trucks and riot gear.
Now, amid that increased criticism, several school districts say they'll give some of the equipment back, while others plan to keep the rifles they received. Nearly two dozen education and civil liberties groups sent a letter earlier this week to the Pentagon and the Justice and Education departments urging a stop to transfers of military weapons to school police.
The Los Angeles Unified School District ” the nation's second largest school district covering 710 square miles and enrolling more than 900,000 students ” said it would remove three grenade launchers it had acquired because they "are not essential life-saving items within the scope, duties and mission" of the district's police force.
But the district plans to keep the 60 M16s and a military vehicle known as an MRAP used in Iraq and Afghanistan that was built to withstand mine blasts.
District police Chief Steve Zipperman told The Associated Press that the M16s are used for training, and the MRAP, which is parked off campus, was acquired because the district could not afford to buy armored vehicles that might be used to protect officers and help students in a school shooting.
"That vehicle is used in very extraordinary circumstances involving a life-saving situation for an armed threat," Zipperman said. "Quite frankly I hope we never have to deploy it."
http://www.theguardian.com/world/feedarticle/11546318Dani, grenade launchers attach to the underside of M16 rifles. They can fire a variety of rounds including tear gas. They're best suited for the delivery of tear gas in urban riot control situations. Riot control police within range of delivering hand thrown tear gas canisters to a rioting crowd are also within range of that crowd to be stoned; or, burned with Molotov cocktails. When the Los Angeles Unified School District said it would remove three grenade launchers it had acquired because they "are not essential life-saving items within the scope, duties and mission" of the district's police force, they simply acknowledged that the school police are not going into the riot control business which will rest elsewhere. The capability will still exist, just with another organization. Believe it or not, in this day of modern weaponry, people are still being stoned to death by crowds:
CONAKRY, Sept 18 (Reuters) - Eight bodies, including those of three journalists, were found after an attack on a team trying to educate locals on the risks of the Ebola virus in a remote area of southeastern Guinea, a government spokesman said on Thursday. ...
.. Fofana said the team that included local administrators, two medical officers, a preacher and three accompanying journalists, was attacked by a hostile stone-throwing crowd from the village when they tried to inform people about Ebola. ...
They can fire a variety of rounds including tear gas.
I did not know that. Thanks, that makes much more sense than police (and school police) forces having actual grenades to fire at the crowd:P
But they didn't have tear gas, in fact they had nothing they could fire from those launchers. I'm betting there was no planned strategy, they just took them because they were available and free.
They were probably just waiting for some CS rounds to become available - FREE. You don't pass up the opportunity to acquire a capability just because you have to do it piecemeal instead of all at one time: you don't look a gift horse in the mouth. There are also sub-caliber adapters available for grenade launchers that allow firing 12 gauge shotgun shells (for those who like to salt their meat) to compliment what the rifle fires without having to carry a second long arm. Not my cup of tea; but, if it's free ...
Yeah, I think there is a lot of agencies, police, school, local governments,that have said oooh pretty, when free stuff is offered. Instead they should be saying what do we need, how would we use that, how would we train our people to use that, how does that fit in our planned responses, etc?
That's a fair amount of mission creep.
"Teach my child to read."
"Sure, I'll need a grenade launcher to do that."
Tbh, I find the idea of a police force for schools a little alien. Aside from the Cambridge University constabulary we don't really have an equivalent here - the schools just come under the policing of the area they're in. Then agan, as already mentioned, we're a fairly small place and pretty close together, so there's probably a lot less need for specialisation in that regard.
You don't generally see campus police outside of universities here either. This is a case of allowing a school system to get to large to operate normally. We sometimes have local police assigned to a campus engaged in DARE or some other absurdity, while waiting for something terrible to happen.
We had campus cops in all the high schools here. It was a convenience more than anything, because the cops would have had to drive out there several times a week anyway for the regular drugs/fighting/weapons calls. For the most part they just wandered around until they were needed.
That's a fair amount of mission creep.
"Teach my child to read."
"Sure, I'll need a grenade launcher to do that."
Maybe they have a high school ROTC program. :lol2:
It was a convenience more than anything, because the because the cops would have had to drive out there several times a week anyway for the regular drugs/fighting/weapons calls.
That makes sense.
Maybe they have a high school ROTC program.
Back then, students from Faber College did wonders with a Lincoln. Imagine what they could have done with an MRAP. Upgraded technology means nobody need crush beer cans on their forehead.
I just happened to read this today.
I'm glad I live in Arlington. If this had happened in Ferguson, the kid would have been shot. Instead, nobody was hurt. This is how cops should behave. Look for a way to not kill a suspect instead of looking for justification to kill them instead.
Police: Drunk Teen Tries to Stab People at Ballston Sports Bar
News
by Ethan Rothstein
September 30, 2014 at 1:15 pm 2,994 59 Comments
Larry Sutton (photo courtesy Arlington County Police Department)(Updated at 2:20 p.m.) A 19-year-old D.C. resident tried to stab multiple people outside First Down Sports Bar in Ballston last night before fleeing from police, avoiding a taser and ultimately being tackled and arrested, police say.
Larry Sutton was already wanted for armed robbery by the Metropolitan Police Department when, while intoxicated, he attempted “to stab several patrons with a knife” at 8:30 last night, according to the Arlington County Police Department.
First Down owner Ramesh Chopra told ARLnow.com this afternoon that the incident began when Sutton and another individual got into an argument outside the bar. Sutton began swinging a knife, after which the other individual entered First Down, where Sutton followed. Chopra said Sutton swung the knife inside the bar once before the two were kicked out and Chopra locked the door.
After that, Sutton “just started to go after passersby,” Chopra said, swinging his knife at two different people on the sidewalk before the police arrived.
Sutton ignored police demands to drop his weapon and fled toward the Ballston Metro station, the police report said.
According to ACPD spokesman Dustin Sternbeck, the officers hit Sutton with a taser, but it did not bring him down. Ultimately, officers had to “execute a takedown” to subdue and arrest him.
Sutton is being charged with three counts of attempted malicious wounding, resisting arrest, obstruction of justice, underage possession of alcohol and drunk in public. He is being held without bond.
The problem is that's the type of asshole who should be shot.
The point is that the cops were there and actually saw the situation and decided that he wasn't putting anyone in deadly harm. So they tazered him and tackled him instead of shooting him.
I think if this was in Ferguson, they would see the knife and just think "hey, free pass to kill a bad guy" and pull the trigger.
I just happened to read this today.
I'm glad I live in Arlington. If this had happened in Ferguson, the kid would have been shot. Instead, nobody was hurt. This is how cops should behave. Look for a way to not kill a suspect instead of looking for justification to kill them instead.
Absolutely. Only shoot as a last resort, and generally aim to disarm or disable not kill.
The trouble with places like Ferguson though, is that the police there seem to view the citizens as the Enemy.
I get your point, my point is that isn't always for the best.
The problem is that's the type of asshole who should be shot.
No. That's the type of asshole who should go in front of a judge.
He's 19 years old. He may be a wholly different person by the time he hits 30. Sometimes people really do change, really do reform. I am a conpletely different person to the girl i was at 19. Better that he be tried and possibly imprisoned with the possibilit of change than gunned down on the street for waving a knife - and clearly waving it rather ineffectually.
It is not, nor is it ever, the job of police to be judge, jury and executioner.
Bullshit, that's the scum who should be dispatched quickly, efficiently and inexpensively. The problem being the cops don't know which is scum, so constitutional guarantees and blah, blah, blah... BUT, if they'd blown him away the world would be ahead.
Maybe the world would be ahead without him in it. But I think society is ahead when we have a functioning legal system.
fuuuuuuuuck.
No. Wrong.
Tell me this: How should he be shot? Two in the chest and one in the head? Should the shot(s) be fatal? Or should he just be wounded? Should he be lightly wounded or severely wounded? I'd like to hear your plan.
I believe since the situation was resolved without anyone being shot, that that was a good solution. Wherever possible, the least amount of force required to restore order or ensure the safety of the officer and the people in the area, including the suspect, is the best choice. NOT shooting him is less than SHOOTING him, and since WAS successful, is proof positive that he SHOULD NOT have been shot.
Fuck your circular logic, he is scum and a blight on society. Unfortunately the cops can't tell that, and the courts are controlled by lawyers.
Country of law? Bullshit, they twist the law, and it's intent, to suit their whims. They're supported by private jailers, who's only interest is bleeding the taxpayers for every dime they can.
Like the asshole in San Francisco who has to get to a pretrial hearing for auto theft, so he steals a fucking car. Rehabilitation? Not a fucking chance.
Absolutely. Only shoot as a last resort, ...
This is true. Shooting someone should only be done when the situation warrants the use of lethal force, with the goal of immediately incapacitating that person, and the realization that the person will likely die as a result.
... and generally aim to disarm or disable not kill. ...
This has no basis in reality. It's only for television and movies. In this country, no modern law enforcement agency, no branch of the military, no private security firm and no credible civilian concealed carry or personal defense course teaches their personnel to shoot other than to immediately totally incapacitate with the expectation that they will have to kill to accomplish that. Courts here don't accept the premise that it's appropriate to shoot in a situation that requires less than lethal force. That's what less than lethal weapons are for. Shooting lethal weapons to disarm or disable rather than to immediately totally incapacitate constitutes excessive use of force and is prosecuted. If the person shot dies, it's manslaughter. We don't even shoot fleeing felons just to "wing" them anymore without coming under intense scrutiny.
With all the variables encountered under the stress of an actual confrontation, very few people in this world have the skill to shoot to disarm or disable without running a significant risk of unintentionally killing their target or hitting innocent bystanders. Even the best counterterrorist operators who drill day in and day out in live fire exercises can't guarantee that circumstances beyond their control won't arise to alter a situation requiring less than lethal force resulting in an unintentional kill if they were shooting at someone under those circumstances. Here, no one is supposed to shoot unless the situation warrants killing and when that situation arises they're trained to shoot to kill. If the person shot in such a situation survives, they're just lucky the variables in their situation worked out in their favor to that extent.
Just sayin'.
If he ain't dead, he will find a scumbag lawyer to sue you.
While you're at it, tell me why we shouldn't execute fuckers
like this.
Dr. Farid Fata pleaded guilty Tuesday to 13 counts of health care fraud, one count of conspiracy and two counts of money laundering. according to court records, the scheme enabled the doctor to submit approximately $225 million in claims to Medicare over six years. At his sentencing, scheduled for Feb. 23, 2014, Fata faces a statutory maximum of 175 years in prison.
In his guilty plea today, Fata admitted to prescribing and administering aggressive chemotherapy, cancer treatments, intravenous iron and other infusion therapies to patients who did not need them in order to increase his billings to the Medicare program and other insurance companies, the release said.
Fata then submitted fraudulent claims to Medicare and other insurers for these unnecessary treatments. He told U.S. District Judge Paul Borman that he ordered treatments for patients knowing they were unnecessary and then submitted insurance claims.
Try to imagine the hell he put those people through and tell me you think he shouldn't die. :mad2:
Well, I'm opposed to capital punishment, so I have no problem saying that he shouldn't die for his crimes. But he's the worst kind of person there is and he belongs in prison.
I think if this was in Ferguson, they would see the knife and just think "hey, free pass to kill a bad guy" and pull the trigger.
W0W ... :eyebrow:
Maybe you didn't see the incident where Ferguson cops did exactly that with a guy who had a knife and was standing nowhere near them or anyone else. He didn't drop the knife so they killed him.
No attempt to use less than lethal force.
While you're at it, tell me why we shouldn't execute fuckers like this.
Because it's too expensive. No point wasting even more money on this guy.
Try to imagine the hell he put those people through and tell me you think he shouldn't die. :mad2:
Same with Wall Street executives, the water poisoners in West Virginia, etc., etc., etc.
I did see that glatt, but you are tainting EVERY officer in Ferguson with that statement. Do you think that type of crap doesn't happen all the time in virtually every major city in the country? What about the many incidents in NM? For example, the man who was shot in the desert earlier this year.
[YOUTUBE]6tpAZObNZfI[/YOUTUBE]
Based on the news out of Ferguson, I think it's fair to paint them all with the same brush. It's a systemic problem there.
And that homeless guy in NM is an even worse example.
I was holding up the news story I posted as the way cops should be doing it. It's possible to be a good cop.
The police in Ferguson seem to have drawn a line between themselves and the rest of the population. And they seem far more interested in playing commando than in policing.
I doubt they are representative of police generally in the states.
...something about a few bad apples applies here.
Is that how you explain Ridley Twp?
Oh look - Community outreach, Fergusen style:
Ferguson police accused of making 'unnecessary arrests' at latest protests
About a dozen protesters were arrested and jailed in the latest round of unrest since police shot and killed Michael Brown
A small number of people gathered on Thursday outside Ferguson police headquarters, the latest of several protests since the Aug. 9 shooting death of Michael Brown by Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson. Protesters want Wilson, who is white, to be charged in the killing of Brown, 18, who was black and unarmed. A grand jury investigation is expected to last into November.
Just before midnight, officers began moving toward the protesters, who were chanting, used plastic restraints on their wrists and put them in a van, according to Gabrielle Hanson, who was at the scene while her mother, freelance videographer Mary Moore, shot video. Moore was among those arrested, Hanson was not.
The reason for the arrests wasn’t immediately clear. Patricia Bynes, a Democratic committeewoman from the Ferguson area who was at the protest, said protesters were warned against violence-inciting language, but she didn’t know what the protesters said. Other local media reports say the protesters were cited for violating a noise ordinance.
The protesters were taken to a jail in neighboring St. Ann, and some were placed on 24-hour hold, Bynes said.
-snip-
“There do appear to be, if not bogus, at least unnecessary arrests,” said Rothert, who had no details about why the protesters were arrested. He also questioned why they’d be jailed on a 24-hour hold.
“Holding people unnecessarily long, arresting them when it’s not necessary — that’s an indication of overreach,” Rothert said. “It certainly appears that the purpose is to discourage people from coming to Ferguson to protest.”
Hanson said Moore was shooting video of the arrests when one of the protesters handed her a cellphone. When Moore took it, she was arrested, Hanson said, and officers confiscated her camera.
Asked what the protesters were saying or whether they were being noisy, Hanson said, “They were chanting, ‘Show me what democracy looks like.’”
Hanson said the family had received no explanation from police, and that she had not heard from her mother as of Friday morning.
“Nobody really knows what’s going on,” she said.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/03/ferguson-civil-rights-group-arrests-protestsAnother one
on the news tonight, grandmother tasered in the back, going down face first on the sidewalk like a ton of shit. Fortunately "only" a broken wrist. :rolleyes:
xob - there is no splainin' Ridley. period.
In the OP photo, I'm amused by the tactical officers wearing bright, tan, desert boots ... an urban-camo fashion faux pas.
We just had another weekend of camouflage sports uniforms. Is that supporting the troops or supporting mindless militarism?
We just had another weekend of camouflage sports uniforms. Is that supporting the troops or supporting mindless militarism?
What's that, you want to know if the troops were wearing camouflage supporters as part of their military uniforms during mindless sports last weekend?
Here are a couple others.
The riot police should take line dancing lessons to psych out the protesters.
Guess it's just a comic book.
