Winter Tips for Plumbing

I suspect we're a long way from hearing the fat lady sing this winter's swan song. And since it's been extra cold in places they usually see only moderate cold, plumbing vigilance is a wise idea.

The New York Times has some advice how you can keep plumbing gremlins from creeping up on you.

Q. O.K., so I live in the Connecticut suburbs in a normal house, and it’s ridiculously cold outside right now. How worried should I be about my pipes bursting?

A. Not nearly as worried as someone in Nashville. Northern plumbers put water supply lines in rather protected areas, but Southern plumbers have been much more careless about that. If the frequency of freezing-pipe incidents surpasses the institutional memory of the area, you’re in real trouble.

But still we hear the horror stories even up north — or at least here in the northeast, where really severe cold isn’t the norm. How do I avoid becoming the star of a horror story?

It helps to understand how pipes burst. The way that happens doesn’t follow conventional wisdom, which says water turns to ice and pushes outward against the wall of the pipe and causes a rupture. The blockage grows along the length of the pipe and acts like a piston, causing elevated water pressure when the faucet is turned off, and that’s what causes the rupture. So if you can relieve the pressure downstream of the blockage by allowing the tiniest little drip at the faucet, then the ice blockage can grow and it won’t rupture the pipe.

Etc.... etc.... etc.... ;)

One tip is that if you're leaving a place for a while in winter, throw a big handful of salt into the lavatory pan, helps stop the water freezing and shattering the pan.
Turn off the water at the mains and flush it to empty the cistern before the salt goes down!

What is a lavatory pan? The bowl or the tank?

[translator] The pan is the bowl [/translator]


Sent by thought transference

If a plumber knew his job, then a building can be heated to only 40 degrees (5 degrees C) and no pipes freeze. Problem is so many plumbers who never learned their job.

Freezing pipes are best corrected in the summer. If any water pipe is inside an exterior wall, then the plumbing is completely defective and should be changed.

Identify a defect easily. Does a pipe exit from an exterior wall to connect to a sink or toilet? Or does it come up through the floor?

Winter is a time to identify other problems. No floor in any interior room should feel cold. But even in 1970, many contractors said insultation was unnecessary in that space between floors. No amount of reasoning could change their attitude. Because they were told those spaces between joists did not need insulation on exterior surfaces. Then pipes between the floors freeze. But that is your fault; not theirs.

Freezing pipes when a building is at 40 degrees and outside temperatures are at zero (-18 C) identifies defective workmanship. Any underground pipe that freezes clearly violated a simple rule - it must be three feet (1 meter) or deeper (even underneath a garage floor).

maybe Molasar is referring to ye olde outhouses? ;)

Up here we'd never leave the house unheated because we wouldn't leave it for more than a couple of weeks tops, but maybe people with cabins would? I dunno. We'd just turn the thermostat down to sufficiently above freezing (exact temp depends on what animals remain in the house) Like twinkie says, all pipes are away from the exterior walls except the ones to the outdoor faucets and we winterize those in November.

....but we don't count as a place that only usually sees moderate cold...

monster;890811 wrote:

maybe Molasar is referring to ye olde outhouses?

of course! we can't stand those dirty indoor things. ;)

yes, thanks to my translator, I did mean salting the pan/bowl as opposed to the cistern/tank.

BTW why do Yanks use the word 'faucet' when 'tap' is only half as many characters to type, and half the number of syllables so it's quicker to say?
also you talk of beer being 'on tap' but not 'on faucet':D

Well nobody ever fauceted a keg.

.

Undertoad;890878 wrote:

Well nobody ever fauceted a keg.

my point exactly :D

@griff :cool:
if only {sigh}

I've heard that you can stick a short 2x4 into toilet and ice will climb and keep bowl from freezing.

@ molasar: I've seen it done. It may account in part for my current sobriety. I wasted three years at a technical school after high school. The machine trades guys had hot, cold, and lager at their kitchen sink.

busterb;890893 wrote:

I've heard that you can stick a short 2x4 into toilet and ice will climb and keep bowl from freezing.

presumably a softwood.
a bit of random hardwood timber eg. oak teak or mahogany wouldn't have enough 'give' to absorb the pressure of the enclosing ice (which could still crack the pan/bowl under the pressure) whereas a bit of pine would be better.
a common sense thought that may be total BS but makes sense to me.
I guess something like a hollow plastic or foam-filled stress ball (that floats half above and half below the water line) would do the same.
best not give it to the kids to play with afterwards though. yeuch :(

Griff;890894 wrote:

@ molasar: I've seen it done. It may account in part for my current sobriety. I wasted three years at a technical school after high school. The machine trades guys had hot, cold, and lager at their kitchen sink.

is that house for sale by any chance?
I could easily put a new slow-running tap on it for Guinness ;)

and for the record I don't suffer from sobriety, except allowing generous 'bottle to throttle' time for driving. :halo:

tw;890805 wrote:

If a plumber knew his job, then a building can be heated to only 40 degrees (5 degrees C) and no pipes freeze. Problem is so many plumbers who never learned their job.

Freezing pipes are best corrected in the summer. If any water pipe is inside an exterior wall, then the plumbing is completely defective and should be changed.

Identify a defect easily. Does a pipe exit from an exterior wall to connect to a sink or toilet? Or does it come up through the floor?

Winter is a time to identify other problems. No floor in any interior room should feel cold. But even in 1970, many contractors said insultation was unnecessary in that space between floors. No amount of reasoning could change their attitude. Because they were told those spaces between joists did not need insulation on exterior surfaces. Then pipes between the floors freeze. But that is your fault; not theirs.

Freezing pipes when a building is at 40 degrees and outside temperatures are at zero (-18 C) identifies defective workmanship. Any underground pipe that freezes clearly violated a simple rule - it must be three feet (1 meter) or deeper (even underneath a garage floor).

Great in theory, but unrelated to the reality of old houses and different climates. For example, up here on the 43rd parallel, the frostline is 4 feet below grade. If there is a cold snap (-20 or -30 for a week) with no snow cover, as happens every six or seven years, water service entrance lines will freeze. It sucks. Another common problem is when the wind is strong, the temps are below zero and there are cracks in the foundation or gaps in the walls around windows, mouse eaten insulation or no insulation at all, the wind finds its way to a pipe and freezes it. Especially true in unheated basements. I've seen this happen in houses where the living space was at 68 degrees.

Why not stick to cars and 85% of top management instead of blaming plumbers for frozen pipes.

footfootfoot;890913 wrote:

Great in theory, but unrelated to the reality of old houses and different climates.

Even informed 1950 plumbers properly installed pipes. Then pipes did not freeze even in unheated basements.

Please comprehend what was posted; stop justifying bad workmanship with ignorance. In venues where a frost line is 4 feet, then pipes must be buried more than four feet down. Even a ditch digger knows pipes must always be below the frost line. If not, then pipes are reburied deeper.

If a house is at 40 degrees, then an unheated basement should never have frozen pipes. But some believe failure acceptable. They do not even patch foundation cracks (which are often due to defective workmanship in the footings), do not install missing insulation, and do not replace defective windows. Conditions acceptable only in abandon buildings or the ghetto.

85% of all frozen pipes are directly traceable to a naive or lazy human. Most learn from their mistakes. Since the solution is so simple, so well understood, and easy. A frozen water pipe is fixed so that it never freezes again even in -20 degree (-30 degree C) weather.

A pipe repeatedly frozen identifies a human in denial. Who would lash out rather than admit to why the problem exists.

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Somebody is lashing out tonight. tw, maybe you could start a thread about whatever is bothering you?

85% of the houses around here were built in the early 1800s and are uninsulated.

The foundations are dry stacked stone or mortared with sand and lime. The people living in the houses have trouble paying for heat AND food and certainly can't afford to parge their entire foundation inside and out.

Your argument is invalid.

And 38% don't own the joint.

Ed Zachary.

footfootfoot;890978 wrote:

85% of the houses around here were built in the early 1800s and are uninsulated.

Then insulate it. Or, even better, get a kid to insulate it. 1800 vintage foundations can be plastered and fixed. Living in a home with defects does not justify those defect. Eliminating such problems are easy and often inexpensive. Pipes freeze when a defect is ignored.

Just because that makes you angry does not mean it is wrong or is an attack. It is a simple reality that applies to any old house that exists in a 21st Century modern society. Moving pipes to not freeze and installing insulation is now so easy that even teenagers can do it. You can get angry or you can eliminate the problem with trivial solutions.

If a frost line is 4 feet, then water pipes were buried more than 4 feet. Or that line is reburied deeper. How often are street mains freezing? Never. Because proper and standard workmanship is used.

Obviously that is not an attack. But some get angry (emotional) rather than realize a problem need not exist. The solution is so easy that you should be saying, "Good idea." Or should be asking for better ways to elminate a problem that need not exist. That is a logical response.

The house is historic because "George Washington slept here". Heat is turned down every night. That 1700s house has minimal changes (because it is historic) They did maintenance using proper workmanship. So its water pipes do not freeze.

Simple solutions never justified such an emotional outburst.

Oh my god.

Ed Zachary. :rolleyes:

Somebody needs to spend time with the working poor. That is coming through across threads.

If even teenagers can rebury pipes more than four feet deep from main to interior valve, surely you can, tw. Come now, do the adult thing and show these non-teenagers (and teenagers) how it's done.

Or live on the income of those who work three jobs and are still precarious, and see how much money and energy you have left at the end of the day (more likely, night) to rebury those pipes. Or just spend time with those who are more dedicated, energetic, and resourceful than you, but who still face challenges they aren't responsible for. It might move you toward becoming an adult.

Griff;891357 wrote:

Somebody needs to spend time with the working poor.

They would kill his smug ass in an hour.

orthodoc;891371 wrote:

If even teenagers can rebury pipes more than four feet deep from main to interior valve, surely you can, tw. Come now, do the adult thing and show these non-teenagers (and teenagers) how it's done.

Silly me. I tought that if someone missing one arm can do it, then anyone else can.

Like wow man, that’s what Lieutenant Gerard said to Dr. Richard Kimble, déjà vu!

To lose one arm may be regarded as misfortune, to lose both arms seems like carelessness.

It's the pits.