US view of us

Interesting.

I take issue with some it though:p

The idea that all Brits iron....nah. I never iron. The notion that all brits have to hang their washing outside to dry...many people own washer dryers.

'There are no basements'....well,no: some people have basements. Depends where you live. My brother used to have a kickass basement in his house in Newark.

No walk-in closets? Again, depends where you live. My Mum has a walk-in closet upstairs.

That there are fewer of these things, I can accept. But there is a range of different housing types and sizes and a lot of regional variation.

The Brits have extremely strict zoning restrictions and there are no ‘strip malls’ — not anywhere. So you drive for an hour straight and won’t see a petrol (gas) station or any commercial building sticking out like a sore thumb.

Ummm....we have strip malls (I think - maybe not identical or as huge, but something akin). And we have petrol stations that stick out like a sore thumb...

She's mainly describing the country near to London and applying it to the whole - we have massive regional variation for such a small place (including three distinct countries - four if you count Northern Ireland). For instance, she says it drizzles, but doesn't get cold. The North of our island get very cold. I suspect she has never wintered in Yorkshire, Newcastle, or Scotland.

Other than that little bit of nitpicking it's a well-written and fair piece I think.

Does that seem on the mark? It rings true from here.

Bits of it very much are. Much of it is on the mark for the South of England (or the part where she is anyway). Some of it is very regional though. There's a lot of regional variance in Britain. Some of what she states in absolute terms (Brits always iron) just doesn't apply. Though the idea that we all hang out our washing isn't far off the mark. Lots of people have driers but choose not to use them all the time - there's often a preference for naturally dried laundry and a sense that it is wasteful of energy to use a drier. Lot of people do a combination of the two.

Her description of the houses, again rings true for some, but not all. generally speaking our homes are smaller. But some are big, and even some smaller ones are full of interesting old features, including basements and walk-in closets.

I'm going to spout off here without even reading the article just because.

You're looking at it from the inside of the cage, Dana. Like criticizing Carrot for thinking giraffes and humans are both tall.

Ironing? you may not do it, but you know what an iron is. You've probably done it in your life. You see it on soap operas and don't think "what the hell are they doing?". The only reason people have irons here is to fuse plastic craft beads together. It's so different the first thing I noticed when we moved into our fully furnished apartment was NO IRON. Immediately went out and bought one and never used it until the children discovered the craft beads. MANY years later.
Children here are generally completely unaware that this exists as a concept. You may not iron, but the majority of British families do, even if it's just shirts for special occasions. I'll accept that not everyone line-dries, but the amount of people who do is enough to make it seem like everyone to someone from here. Here it is banned by many neighborhood associations and is an activity associated with the Amish (a religious group who shun all things modern). tumble-dryers are huge and fast compared to the UK. Washer-dryer? :lol: crazy idea. Why would you not have a washer and a dryer -they perform opposite functions! And yes, we had one. OMG they take forever. We used to have to split the load into two after the wash to dry it. My sister still has one, I know it still to be true.... Ann Arbor is a hippie city. almost everyone here is into energy conservation, pollution reduction etc and experiments with line-drying. No-one keeps it up.

There's the occasional basement. That doesn't make the general concept untrue. As a % of the whole, there are no basements. And those that do exist don't really register to someone used to American basements. In old houses, they're cold, damp, and only used for storage (same as here, but almost all houses here are "new" by British standards). Here, unless you're in a region where the rock is too hard to cut, you can't sell a house without a basement. there are, of course, regional differences, and basements are more essential in tornadoland, but basements are so important (and big) that builders will do all sort sof tricks to include a "basement" when it seems impossible/impractical (like not putting windows in one side of the lowest level then part-burying it :rolleyes:).

Walk-in closets. See basement answer. They were becoming more popular in new construction in the UK even years before I left, but there's so little new construction there I would still estimate that as a % of the whole, there are no walk-in closets. Most here are bigger than the third bedroom in your standard UK semi. (That's a duplex to any yanks reading. And they're all built to the same plan. really.) Mine is tiny compared to most I see. It's 6'*5'
To give an American perspective, here rooms can only be called bedrooms if they have a built-in closet. These are typically standard door height, 5 feet wide and two feet deep. They would probably be marketed as walk-in in the UK ;)

Cold. With all due respect, You (the Brits) don't know cold from schmold -Britain -all of it-- is very temperate given it's latitude. It's far enough north to be compared with Canada. So that's what Americans expect. Down here in Michigan (way below and way warmer than Canada -further south than the UK) it's -4 centigrade this morning (mid November), there's snow on the ground, and isn't expected to get above freezing all week, even though it will be clear and sunny. How often does that happen in the UK? And in how much of it? And we'll stay at these temperatures or colder for the next 5 months. there may be bits of the UK or the occasional day that seem very cold to you. That doesn't make it cold. And I have wintered up north.

Strip mall? Can't think of one. Can you post a pic? Maybe that has changed since I left. Places like the Arndale are regular Malls. Strip malls are half miles or more of businesses on the road with decent parking, intended to be reached by car/attract passing commuter business.

I think you can drive across the Yorkshire Moors for an hour without seeing a petrol station or commercial building. not that Brits often drive for an hour without taking a break ;)


I should stop. My tumble-dryer is telling me that -30 minutes after I put it on- a week's worth of shirts and trousers are dry and warm and ready to be hung -crease-free- in the closets :)

If there are accuracies in the article, I think I could very happily expat my ass to England. I am sick of the giant everything: houses, cars, washers/dryers, refrigerators. In America, if you can't park a car in your refrigerator or dry three hobos at a time in your dryer, well you just ain't livin' the American dream. (On House Hunters International I'm appalled by the americans who won't take an apartment because it doesn't have an 'American-sized' refrigerator. Or it doesn't have granite counters. OR the appliances aren't stainless. Really? THAT's what matters?)

Basements are just places that flood occasionally.

I know that England has the hustle and bustle of the city, particularly in London (I don't know other than that) but I think of small villages, quaint, where the grocer is down the street, the pub is around the corner, maybe you can walk to work.

It just seems simpler, and more peaceful. I may just be romanticizing Jolly Old' but I sure can envision living in what I envision.

Now, about getting a job... Where do I start? ;)

Ha! fair enough.

But ironing has really gone out of fashion. I have used mine probably twice in the last 10 years. And I know many people who just don't iron as a general rule. More likely they buy clothes made in materials that don't need ironing.

Lot of people have separate washers and driers now - if they have the space. But there is still something of a preference for line drying where possible.

My Mum's house is around 150 years old and has a walk in closet. My brother's basement was a kickass den/man cave.

This stuff isn't standard fayre as it is in the States, but it exists. That was my point really.

The last few winters have thrown up some interesting cold weather. Now, I don't pretend that our cold is anywhere near as lowm as the cold over there - but it does get cold in places and snowy and icy and all of that. That description was so clearly based on southern climes. Very rare the temperature drops enough for snow and ice in the south - most winters it will do so in the north. And go up to the highlands of Scotland and it can be very cold.

It was the absolutes, really that I was taking issue with. No, everybody doesn't iron - many do. No, not every house lacks a basement - many do. Does it get cold? Well, depends on your definition. I've been snowed into my village three times in the last five or six years - that seemed cold.


I'm not sure about 'strip malls' as such, but we have equivalents. Out of town shopping centres, with a main centre and a few smaller centres all on one retail park, accessible by car.

The one nearest me is called The White Rose Centre: it covers a 76 acre site but is one of the smaller out of town centres, according to wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose_Centre

Now they're probably a hell of a lot smaller than the behemoths over there - but a smaller footprint still has a big impact on the landscape over here. They aren't pretty.

infinite monkey;883250 wrote:

If there are accuracies in the article, I think I could very happily expat my ass to England. I am sick of the giant everything: houses, cars, washers/dryers, refrigerators. In America, if you can't park a car in your refrigerator or dry three hobos at a time in your dryer, well you just ain't livin' the American dream. (On House Hunters International I'm appalled by the americans who won't take an apartment because it doesn't have an 'American-sized' refrigerator. Or it doesn't have granite counters. OR the appliances aren't stainless. Really? THAT's what matters?)

Basements are just places that flood occasionally.

I know that England has the hustle and bustle of the city, particularly in London (I don't know other than that) but I think of small villages, quaint, where the grocer is down the street, the pub is around the corner, maybe you can walk to work.

It just seems simpler, and more peaceful. I may just be romanticizing Jolly Old' but I sure can envision living in what I envision.

Now, about getting a job... Where do I start? ;)

Well, aside from my quibbles, which are as much founded in mild annoyance at the way London and the South are all that seem to count when discussing 'British' culture and norms, generally, the article nails a lot about life in the UK.

The cost of living is very high (though nowhere near as high where I live as it is down south) and wages are low. We have much lower expectations, for the most part, around property and space. But I don't mind that.

The dependence on the weather for things like drying clothes is a definite factor. As also wedding plans. Basically anything that has to be done outdoors needs contingency plans built in from the start: our weather may not tend to extremes, but it is ridiculously erratic. I remember an aussie once describing his first summer over here with friends, and in particular the way we approached barbecues *smiles* - basically, very few people plan a barbecue as such. They may get stuff in, with a tentative plan in mind, but who the fuck knows if it'll be possible come the day? More often than not, barbecues are things conceived and enacted on the day: ya wake up on Saturday morning and it's sunny, so you dash out and buy barbecue stuff and invite your mates round that day. All the while hoping the sun will stay and it won't suddenly start raining.

IM...

I know that England has the hustle and bustle of the city, particularly in London (I don't know other than that) but I think of small villages, quaint, where the grocer is down the street, the pub is around the corner, maybe you can walk to work.

It just seems simpler, and more peaceful. I may just be romanticizing Jolly Old' but I sure can envision living in what I envision.

I don't think that we can quite match your dream but there's still a flavour of another age about the place at times.

This video was made in January of this year when a couple of hundred sheep were moved from their pasture back to the farmyard prior to being housed indoors for lambing.
Please note that even the sheep drive on the left over here.:)

[YOUTUBE]XNb4Ouc2UXU[/YOUTUBE]

Wendover - Google Street View.

Note how the market appears then disappears as you work your way down the High Street.

DanaC;883251 wrote:

I'm not sure about 'strip malls' as such, but we have equivalents. Out of town shopping centres, with a main centre and a few smaller centres all on one retail park, accessible by car. .

Those are just "Malls" too. Strip malls are on a road.

and have strippers waving signs to advertise pizza and tax preparers.

monster;883259 wrote:

and have strippers waving signs to advertise pizza and tax preparers.

Yeah....no, that we don't have :p

I'm not sure about 'strip malls' as such, but we have equivalents. Out of town shopping centres, with a main centre and a few smaller centres all on one retail park, accessible by car.

But we have stripped down, bikini-clad barristas serving latte's to drive-by caffeine addicts.

skimmed the article, not sure how long thw writer has lived in the UK, but certainly she has only lived in one place, which is London, which only emphasises the effect.

As a broad brush short article I didn't see anything that was the opposite of the truth, nobodies mentioned this bit, very relevant at the moment.

A massive advantage of living here is the National Health Service. If an American could understand it, they would be amazed by its magnificence.
In this past week I have seen an ENT consultant surgeon and have had surgery scheduled in a few weeks’ time. There was no direct cost to me.
Tonight my GP (family doctor) rang at 8pm to check in on another health issue. She is chasing a consultant to authorise a new medication and will ring me back next week. This did not cost me a penny.
So, three doctors and one medical procedure without a form to fill in or a bill to pay. Pretty damn impressive stuff –yes, I know it is in our taxes but the system works well. It is ‘from birth to grave’ care all woven together into one service — ambulance to GP to hospital to nursing care. There are all kinds of synergies created by such a system. It is to be deeply respected, emulated, and not feared

A massive advantage of living here is the National Health Service. If an American could understand it, they would be amazed by its magnificence.
In this past week I have seen an ENT consultant surgeon and have had surgery scheduled in a few weeks’ time. There was no direct cost to me.
Tonight my GP (family doctor) rang at 8pm to check in on another health issue. She is chasing a consultant to authorise a new medication and will ring me back next week. This did not cost me a penny.
So, three doctors and one medical procedure without a form to fill in or a bill to pay. Pretty damn impressive stuff –yes, I know it is in our taxes but the system works well. It is ‘from birth to grave’ care all woven together into one service — ambulance to GP to hospital to nursing care. There are all kinds of synergies created by such a system. It is to be deeply respected, emulated, and not feared

Show off.

I've never grasped how the detail of how the Canadian system works, but a concept that's too alien for most Americans to conceive, you never recieve a bill for medical care.:3_eyes:

also.
Pet Shops, I only remember pet shops in the UK as a small single person owned business. In the US they are a big store in any mall selling reptiles, birds, fish and maybe cats on the premises, don't see dogs in ours unlkess the local shelter is havoing an adoption day. One of the weird little things for me is that supermarkets, like Sainsburys or Tesco, sell Tropical Fish, no other live animals, except of course live lobsters on the fish counter.

the article wrote:

People jump to conclusions about Brits being unfriendly but this is simply an American reaction to the British cultural norm of avoiding relationships that are superficial.

I could do with more of this. It's not the same all over the US, to be sure, but in the Southern states, people maintain meaningless chat everywhere. Elevators, bathrooms, medical waiting rooms... I am expected to have a real get-to-know-you conversation with my grocery store checker every single time, despite the fact that it is almost never the same person, and when it is, they often don't remember me from last time anyway.

I'd say monster is way more American than most Americans. I hung laundry out this weekend even if I do have a washer and dryer in my small house's unfinished basement. I'll check back in in a few minutes since I have shirts to iron.

:D does that mean I can get citizenship for free?

I don't necessarily agree with all the generalizations, I'm just trying to show where they come from

I lived in the north when I was there two generations ago, and all I can say is it was cold.

It wasn't cold outside, it was cold inside. A sort of we-build-our-houses-out-of-stone-not-wood type of cold, where the standard insulation level of any house was pretty much R0. It could be above freezing outside and you'd still be bone chilled inside.

It was the type of cold where you would invent, and then be terribly scalded by, heated towel racks. Because even though you were putting a searing hot rail right next to your tub -- where you would inevitably touch it, and burn yourself -- you needed your towels to be warm and dry, because you were forever cold and damp.

It was the type of cold where having a searing hot gas fire in the living room was considered a good idea. (Fuck fake logs, by the way - you want the flame to hit you directly.) Such a fire will immediately destroy fabrics, skin, or really, anything that gets near it. But if there is a searing hot gas fire in the living room, logic says certainly you can convince yourself you're warm. (It's not really true, because anywhere inside five feet of the fire is unbearably hot, while anywhere outside five feet is unbearably cold, and finding a middle ground is impossible.)

It's the type of cold where Brits just leave their eggs out on the counter. You don't need a big refrigerator, because during fall, winter, and spring, the kitchen IS the refrigerator.

Stone houses can be brutal. I think that's why the Quakers didn't stick in my neck of the woods. They built cold houses in an even colder environment. The Yankees showed up and built wood construction that you could heat a little bit. btw: If you have fertile eggs you can leave them on the counter in a warm house. The more you know.

Undertoad;883301 wrote:

It's the type of cold where Brits just leave their eggs out on the counter. You don't need a big refrigerator, because during fall, winter, and spring, the kitchen IS the refrigerator.

that's about Salmonella and Americans, not temperatures. :)

This is the first article I found, there are other, better ones out there but I can't be arsed.

http://www.medicaldaily.com/do-eggs-need-be-refrigerated-or-can-you-store-them-room-temperature-256872

One egg batch was kept at room temperature, generally between 68°F and 77°F, and the other was kept at typical fridge temperature at approximately 43°F.

These studies were probably done in the South. Northern kitchens are closer to 43°F (6°C) most of the year, and only barely reach 68°F (20°C) in summer. I can prove this logically.

I've read that it has to do with the nasty chicken houses in the US that are so filthy. The eggs are power washed to remove contaminants. This also removes a protective coating on the eggs, making them more porous, and more susceptible to bacterial contamination after the fact.

So you've got two things going on. More sick mama hens in the US because they aren't universally vaccinated. So eggs come out with some contamination. And also shells that don't protect against contamination because they have been washed.

here.

and here.
and so on.

Undertoad;883320 wrote:

These studies were probably done in the South. Northern kitchens are closer to 43°F (6°C) most of the year, and only barely reach 68°F (20°C) in summer. I can prove this logically.

The studies were done in the UK ... Must have been a while ago, we can't afford to heat our houses that much anymore ... :(

Our eggs are out on the counter every day all year round. Then again the kitchen is at the chilly back of the house, underneath this room (my original bedroom). Gosh, in the days before central heating and double glazed windows life was DAMN cold. I agree with what Monster says about climate (Bill Bryson writes about it eloquently too) but also what Toad says about the horror of the inside of houses back in the 70s.

Mum and I are baffled at the people who come on TV now and talk about having to choose between eating or heating this year. Yes, utility prices are a big reason I still live in this house, but people don't seem to see warmth as luxury the way we used to.

My generation and older lived in one room all Winter, where the gas fire was, and that was strictly monitored. Electric heaters were on for 10 minutes in the morning to change by. When you got out of the bath (two baths did for the whole family) Mum or Dad would be there with a towel to dry you immediately- your teeth would chatter nevertheless. Thermal pyjamas on, nighty over the top, hot water bottle and staright to a bed piled high with blankets and towels. Dressing gowns, socks and hats in the real winter.

Hair was only ever washed over the kitchen sink when some cooking/ baking had warmed the room. The idea of washing hair before bed was a crazy proposition.

Everyone I know wore layers of clothes inside, those of us on the estate put on clothes to wipe the ice off the inside of our bedroom windows. The butter dish was put under the grill if we were having toast because it froze in the cupboard. The slightly better off old people were trapped in fuel misery because their non-council houses were larger and draughtier. They'd go and sit in the reading library during the day or buy an all-day ticket for the bus.

No wonder we used to make dishes from scratch - a good suet pudinng sat in the pressure cooker and filled the kitchen with meaty moisture and filled a family's belly until porridge and Weetabix the next morning.

No I'm not claiming we used to drink for a passing Turk's slipper. But just typing this has made me cold again. Going to make myself a cup of tea and snuggle into bed with Diz.
Gosh, lastest I've been up all week! Then again, I did have an afternoon nap.

Do any of the houses in England have walk-in basements upstairs?

Gravdigr;883449 wrote:

Do any of the houses in England have walk-in basements upstairs?

I think they have them in Australia, since they are at the bottom of the world.

By all accounts, The Cellar is usually upstairs at Sundae's house.

i carry the Cellar with me (i carry it in my heart)