Loneliness is about twice as dangerous as obesity
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/08/dangers_of_loneliness_social_isolation_is_deadlier_than_obesity.html
I began to research loneliness and came across several alarming recent studies. Loneliness is not just making us sick, it is killing us. Loneliness is a serious health risk. Studies of elderly people and social isolation concluded that those without adequate social interaction were twice as likely to die prematurely.
The increased mortality risk is comparable to that from smoking. And loneliness is about twice as dangerous as obesity.
Social isolation impairs immune function and boosts inflammation, which can lead to arthritis, type II diabetes, and heart disease. Loneliness is breaking our hearts, but as a culture we rarely talk about it.
Loneliness has doubled: 40 percent of adults in two recent surveys said they were lonely, up from 20 percent in the 1980s.
We're all in this together people.
UT, the Cellar has been treating this disorder for years.
I wonder if they accounted for "nobody around to call 911", or if they're just counting that as part of loneliness.
UT, the Cellar has been treating this disorder for years.
I can attest that this place has been invaluable* to me on multiple occasions for the treatment you refer to. And my health insurance covers the premiums too!**
*this word should literally be in that other thread.
** tip mug time.
Do you think I can get aeroplane tickets on the NHS?
Good, cuz I'm fat, but I ain't lonely.
Never have been.
Even when I was alone.
Loneliness has doubled: 40 percent of adults in two recent surveys said they were lonely, up from 20 percent in the 1980s.
Too many McMansions. And too many cars sitting for hours on lonely, 'bumper to bumper' expressways. The modern life is killing us!
Too many McMansions. And too many cars sitting for hours on lonely, 'bumper to bumper' expressways. The modern life is killing us!
Amen brother! I'm doing my part: I live in a hellhole and I'm unemployed. Now if i could stop loving interwebz And movies and gadgets i could go totally off-grid. :lol:
Well I'm a fat bastard and I'm lonley as well so i guess I'm fucked then
Real loneliness is not necessarily limited to when you are alone - Bukowski
perhaps I should have put this in the poetry thread though. Either way, we're all doomed
And it's something that you can't fix about yourself, isn't it? It's something someone can do to you. When you've gone out on a limb to trust someone with your heart, and they betray you, attack you and eviscerate your self esteem, leave you for dead. You can be in the best shape of your life, high IQ, command an exorbitant salary, live in the center of popular culture, and wake up, bolt upright at 5am, slammed in the face with the visceral, glaring reality that you're all alone and don't remember what it's like to hold someone in your arms, to be comfortable trusting someone to get close to you. Everywhere you look, people happy being together. And you're pushing people away, because your heart has been torn apart. Suffering in isolation, insomnia, depression needs a better word. You didn't do this to yourself. If this is unhealthy, this is murder.
Meh, there's plenty of fish in the sea.
Jesus man, that's a deep cut.
You can be in the best shape of your life, high IQ, command an exorbitant salary, live in the center of popular culture, and
She always admired big apple carts, so you figured she loves apple carts. So you set up a really amazing apple cart... the biggest apple cart you could build, and you filled it to the brim with apples. Now it turns out she admired full apple carts because of how the apples would fly everywhere when she pushed them over. Wow, how the apples fly.
[SIZE="1"](I don't know anything about your relationship, and whether this analogy applies at all, but I have seen this particular drama play out a few times)[/SIZE]
Meh, there's plenty of fish in the sea.
There's one more out there, as of a couple weeks ago.
Well, if you didn't think so much of yourself, think you're fitter, smarter, worth more, coolest kid on the block who someone else should idolize and be thankful for any attention from you, it might not happen.
If you dump the superiority complex, realize you're just one of millions, be thankful to be treated as an equal and eager to treat them as an equal rather than a minion or pet, it might not happen.
There's one more out there, as of a couple weeks ago.
One man's catch and release is another man's sustenance.
Well, if you didn't think so much of yourself, think you're fitter, smarter, worth more, coolest kid on the block who someone else should idolize and be thankful for any attention from you, it might not happen.
If you dump the superiority complex, realize you're just one of millions, be thankful to be treated as an equal and eager to treat them as an equal rather than a minion or pet, it might not happen.
Dayum. Who was
that aimed at? Just use a knife next time...
Justin Bieber is registered here?!!!
Dayum. Who was that aimed at? Just use a knife next time...
Not aimed like a knife, strewn like Tactical Road Stars.
The thing is, your center was outside of yourself. When you do that... And you have to do that for a relationship to work... You run the risk of the other person jumping off of their end of the teeter totter.
Hurts like a mother fucker when your ass hits the ground.
Sorry man
Well, if ...
No, it's a list of positive qualities I can, with effort, remind / convince myself of (and do not follow the entrenched narrative of the last six months, hearing and believing only bad things about myself)--fitness level, IQ, and annual income are concrete attributes which can be observed and measured. The subjective opinion of whether Portland is a 'stylish' town does not refer to myself at all, but to, as I said, where I live. The smart reader may have picked up on this list as being 'things that are supposed to make you happy but really do not have that ability'
How about consider that psychoanalyzing a situation regarding which you know literally none of the circumstances, you aren't winning any awards for 'best speculative leaps which reveal the hidden message' --you're just being insensitive to someone who is obviously in pain. It's not 'tough love' if you're just piggybacking a hunch on top of --what? an old grudge? You don't like someone, so kick them while they're down? That just seems like being a dickhead.
:ahem: in my opinion.
The thing is, your center was outside of yourself. When you do that... And you have to do that for a relationship to work... You run the risk of the other person jumping off of their end of the teeter totter.
Hurts like a mother fucker when your ass hits the ground.
Sorry man
Don't know exactly how your ride ended, but when I got back from being out of town (working a travel contract so "we" could afford to move "the family" to Portland), my seat was occupied. Actually had been for about
two years but she "didn't know" and was "sorry" --how about that? When I finally got to Portland, depressed and without a new job lined up, she decided this would be the perfect time to dump me. Right when I can't afford to get my own place--mind you I've been depressed for months about being away from the kids, so all I wanted was to get back "home" --and so here we all are, living in the same house just like before, except she's downstairs fucking her "best friend who she could never think of as more than a friend" and she is "sorry" --what a really great person, right? She's sorry that she lied to me for two years, but, well she "didn't know" so it's not really lying, and what's the big deal anyway? Jeez, get over it, right? This is a very common situation, said no one ever.
Ah, the Tactical Road Stars worked. We have case of the shoe fits perhaps.
The list of "observed and measured" don't mean jack shit in a relationship, and that's always been your handicap. Couples can be happy or not, from sleeping in a cardboard box in the park to the best palaces. When it works it's because they have genuine apathy for each other, genuine respect and show it every day. You'll have to wait because I'm being awesome dear, doesn't cut it.
Hurting? I know, I've been there done that... more than once. But I was always aware I wasn't "betrayed", that would put the blame elsewhere. That's never the case, there's always enough blame to go around. Until you understand and accept that, you'll never heal.
You're missing the point. Twice. It's a list of things that are "supposed to" make a person happy--nothing to do with relationships, you're in the wrong ballpark--my point is that I'm at the unhappiest I've ever been, despite a list of measurable aspects--which have nothing to do with anything about the relationship, but a "self inventory" of someone who feels like they have nothing to feel good about because they are severely depressed. Read, repeat.
I remember very clearly, an image of a couple walking out of Walmart, smiling at each other and laughing. They were very unattractive. They were People of Walmart.
But this was during the time when I was reeling. When my world exploded. When I was alone. And I thought, "these toothless paupers are able to be happy just to be together."
Neither one of them has what you or I have going for us. Why couldn't I manage to keep my wife happy. As much as I pampered her, and provided a life of ease.... It was not enough. Or it was too much.... Whatever it was, just being together and loving each other was not enough for her.
The hard thing to accept is that you can't understand her motivation. You can't because you don't have her brain. You probably never will.
I won't say time heals all wounds. Fuck that. Suffer this. Feel all of it. Just don't let it ruin you. There is time enough to love again. No hurry. Get yourself back inside yourself for now.
You were there for me when I went through this. You call me any time. Both of you.
I read somewhere that the best way to know if you can trust someone is to trust them. I tried that, and, yes, it worked. I never held her back, I supported her all the way. She took the ball and ran with it, it was a total game winning touchdown for her. All made possible by me not being possessive, not being jealous --doing everything by the book. I set her free and she didn't come back. But she didn't leave. She stayed and tortured me with it, because she didn't know herself and she doesn't understand how human feelings work--in a blind spot centered right around herself.
Well shit. I didn't realize there was infidelity going on. That's a jagged pill. I'm sorry man. I wish I could offer some pertinent advice to help.
Admittedly she is better at explaining this part, but, see, it wasn't infidelity, she was just sleeping in the same bed with another man while I was out of town, telling me we were still together, and then waiting until I moved back home to tell me it's over, and oops she might already be in another relationship, accidentally. But that's not infidelity, that's just me being an asshole for no reason. Totally different thing. See, it sounds crazy when I say it. Sorry, I'm not as good at explaining things as she is.
Christ on a bike, Flint, that sounds horrible. I have no sage advice I'm afraid - but am thinking of you with kindness nonetheless.
I'm sorry Flint. :(
I don't know your pain, but I know 'the' pain, and it sticks with some of us. As jim said, don't let it ruin you.
Geez, just what a shitty situation. Vent here if you can or want to.
Wow, Flint. I'm sorry. What an unexpected blow.
Well, you got us. That's something.
That sounds terrible, Flint. How I got through the worst of times for me was to say to myself "this is awful, it feels like shit, and hurts worse than anything I've ever lived through, but I will get over it." You will, too. And, as UT says, you have us.
Sent by thought transference
It seems impossible to believe now, but in a year, give or take six months, you will be having amazingly good times.
mark it down
It seems impossible to believe now, but in a year, give or take six months, you will be having amazingly good times.
mark it down
True dat.
It's bizarre really, how much negative stuff just goes under the radar for years - then once you get past the heart-wrenchingly shitty break up you realise how much you really don't miss this or that aspect.
Amen to that.
For now, fake it. Do things you like to do, even if you don't feel like it right now. Surrender to this reality if it can't be changed. Don't resist what you can't control. Talk to whoever will listen, write it down... Just get out of your past and don't fear the future. This shall pass.
You're missing the point. Twice.
Yeah, right,
I'm missing the point. :rolleyes:
Bruce, what is your problem? This break up happened six months ago. I'm here to share how, as an individual, I'm struggling to move forward, even if by cobbling together some kind of positive self image out of duct tape and superficial attributes. You're way the fuck off in left field trying to diagnose a relationship that is dead and buried. We went to counseling and worked through this shit as best as we could. We are big boys and girls, we don't need your pop psychology diagnosis, so please just drop it. Will someone validate his desire to appear perceptive and insightful, so he won't feel the need to continue?
Six months later claiming, I wuz robbed, means you don't get it. So just ignore me and keep seeking affirmation of your victimhood.
Bruce, what is your problem? This break up happened six months ago. I'm here to share how, as an individual, I'm struggling to move forward, even if by cobbling together some kind of positive self image out of duct tape and superficial attributes. You're way the fuck off in left field trying to diagnose a relationship that is dead and buried. We went to counseling and worked through this shit as best as we could. We are big boys and girls, we don't need your pop psychology diagnosis, so please just drop it. Will someone validate his desire to appear perceptive and insightful, so he won't feel the need to continue?
Can't validate it, he's a bitter old asshole, projecting his many failed relationships on your one and current situation...pretending he's so forgiving and that he takes on the burden of responsibility in his relationships.
He hasn't spoken to me in years. I consider myself lucky. There were times I tried to crawl up like the injured pet he likes to believe women are, and I was ignored. Because, you see, it was all MY fault our friendship blew to pieces. Personal responsibility my ass.
Now ignore him and listen to what others have to say. We care.
Bruce, you have a fair point. Totally off-topic, but I do understand what you're saying. As I've explained, six months, couples counseling, and me not being a completely insensitive block of granite have pretty much negated the need for quickie five-minute Internet armchair quarterbacks to repeatedly attempt to 'blow my mind' with post analysis of a series of events I've had six months to consider every aspect of. Public forum, though, so, oh well.
:lol:
I'll never understand the dynamics here. ;)
Flint, you're a wimp
Bruce, get off my ass
You're such a 'victim'
Bruce, get off my ass
Still not getting off your ass
you know, you should ignore that mean shit
Oh, bruce, you really do have a point!
Whut? *snickers*
You posted while I was typing.
It does look weird in that order.
Ah well, I just couldn't shut up about it after the repeated stuff. It riled me. Silly me, to get riled.
Anyway, with the utmost sincerity, you are going to be OK. I suppose you don't need that validation anymore than you need the naysaying, but I feel for your situation.
I ain't makin' any new friends, though, I'm sure. Imma put on my 'shut up cap' now. ;)
You're fine. Thank you for calling things the way you see them. The world is not always a 'make friends' contest.
The truth is I felt that we were broken up when I moved to Austin, but she kept fucking me. Moving back to Portland was two different things for us. For me it was being reunited with my family after being away, and being at the lowest point in my life. Returning home with no job and no self esteem. For her it was realizing that she didn't want to live with me anymore. So I've been burying my feelings for six months, because it's to painful to talk about, and there's nothing more to say about it. I've been focusing on being here for my children, and she's been "sorry" but focusing on her new relationship. It would have been easier if everyone could have been more honest, if she could have told that what I thought was happening was, in fact, happening. We discussed it, she told me she could never leave me. Then she did. I've been in this house living with it for six months. I've turned down multiple women's advances on me because, despite how lonely I am, I can't trust anyone to get close to me--I don't remember how. I finally got a job, making $85k doing remote IT work which will be in incredibly easy for me. I can afford to do whatever I want, I'm in a beautiful city where I fit in for the first time in my life, and the realization is setting in, I don't know what to do with myself. I have every possible option that most people might never have access to, and it's all just ashes in my mouth.
And you're still living in the same house as her? After 6 months? While this other guy lives there? Do you sleep on the couch or something?
What's it like with the kids? Are they confused?
six months?
ok, you know in the PM where I said, don't go get laid tonight? I changed my mind. go get that thing wet, stat.
don't fall in love, or act like you love her. just get you some affection and comfort. ashes. pah. you've seen the blue screen of death. you've wiped your drive. You've flashed the CMOS. reinstall the new OS, and fire that thing up.
I read somewhere that the best way to know if you can trust someone is to trust them. I tried that, and, yes, it worked.
One way to know if you
can't trust someone is, also, to trust them.
I tried that, and, yes,
that worked, too.
She cannot be trusted.
@ Grav: you guys break up?
Ah damn. Sorry to hear that.
[eta] her loss, mate.
aw flint, sorry to hear that. I kinda like LJ's advice, but be careful -don't do anything she can use against you to limit access to the kids.
--and so here we all are, living in the same house just like before, except she's downstairs fucking her "best friend ..."
Pics or it didn't happen.
[SIZE="1"](that's legal talk)[/SIZE]
opening up your heart to trust someone only leads to dull blade slowly being twisted in to your back. it is far better to play a role and never reveal the inner self
That's what she said ...
[YOUTUBE]1-IPDT_Eko8[/YOUTUBE]
And you're still living in the same house as her? After 6 months? While this other guy lives there? Do you sleep on the couch or something?
What's it like with the kids? Are they confused?
The other guy has lived with us for two years (back in Texas, we had all been friends for years), and moved up here with us as a roommate so we could all help with the bills, because none of us had jobs lined up here--I was working a travel contract in Austin, so initially nothing changed except where I was traveling back to. When my contract was up, I finally moved back 'home' to Portland. The last time I kissed my wife was the moment I stepped out of my car after driving for three days. But it was a strained, awkward reception. We clearly weren't getting along.
Within the first few days it was clear we were not in a relationship any longer--less than a week earlier she had reassured me she could "never" leave me. Within my first week in Portland she tentatively admitted she "thinks she might like" her friend. At this point, yes, I was sleeping in the couch. Some nights she never came up from downstairs, she "passed out" and "nothing happened" so what's the big deal, and why is it my business anyway? She ordered a futon and we turned my office downstairs into a bedroom / apartment for her. Her friend lives on the other half of the basement. I have a bedroom upstairs, and the kids share a room with a bunk bed.
I've been living here six months, drawing unemployment. I've been able to spend time with the kids again, more than in a long while. We've been trying to get along, for the kids sake, and because it took all three of us to pay for the house. In a nutshell, the most fucked up arrangement you can imagine. But worse for nobody than me, stuffing my feelings down inside so I can stand to speak in a civil tone. She kept thinking I'm going to get over it and we would all get along. I asked her, if you were writing a novel and this thing happened to a character, how would you as an author think it would be realistic to write his reaction, his feelings? I'm not sure if, to this day, she has ever understood what this has done to me.
Six months later, explaining this to the Cellar, I feel exactly the same. I feel 100% as hurt, betrayed, and rejected. I can't imagine what could change so that this isn't an injury I never fully recover from, and in some part of me, carry to my grave. On dark nights, years from now, won't I remember this? Part of me has died.
Well, fast forward to the present, I finally found an awesome job. High-paying, all remote IT work. I don't have to worry about money anymore, but it doesn't solve anything, really. My life is still turned upside down.
Are the kids confused? I'd be worried if they weren't.
Six months later, explaining this to the Cellar, I feel exactly the same. I feel 100% as hurt, betrayed, and rejected. I can't imagine what could change so that this isn't an injury I never fully recover from, and in some part of me, carry to my grave. On dark nights, years from now, won't I remember this? Part of me has died.
I think your living situation is keeping the wound fresh. Yes, some part of you will always remember the hurt, but it will get better to a large degree. That process can't start until you actually get out from under the knife, though. Now that you have money, what's the plan for one or the other of you moving out?
If I were in that situation, I would be very torn. I wouldn't want to leave the kids by moving out. That would kill me. But I also wouldn't be able to stay.
I think what I would do is figure out some custody arrangements and get a nearby apartment. And probably a divorce.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do Flint. But I think that now that you have some money, you have some options. It sounds like she is the weak one who won't make a decision, so you have to.
What Clod said, what Glatt said.
Sent by thought transference
She always admired big apple carts, so you figured she loves apple carts. So you set up a really amazing apple cart... the biggest apple cart you could build, and you filled it to the brim with apples. Now it turns out she admired full apple carts because of how the apples would fly everywhere when she pushed them over. Wow, how the apples fly.
[SIZE="1"](I don't know anything about your relationship, and whether this analogy applies at all, but I have seen this particular drama play out a few times)[/SIZE]
Fucking-eh. Words up, man.
Flint-
Sorry to hear you got fucked over in what I consider a wormy kind of way, but I won't cast stones as much as I'd like to. As a friend once said more than once, "There's what he says, there's what she says, and there's what really happened."
The upshot is that you are in a sucky situation.
I hope you can keep your mojo until things improve, in the meantime here are two thoughts to ponder:
1) Living well is the best revenge.
2) WTF?
What's newguy's salary?
Somewhere in the antisocial, tattooed, fedora-wearing hipster range. He couldn't get a job in Texas--we rescued him from being homeless. He is doing temp jobs up here.
Somewhere in the antisocial, tattooed, fedora-wearing hipster range. He couldn't get a job in Texas--we rescued him from being homeless. He is doing temp jobs up here.
And that the thanks you get. :mad:
I feel for you, Flint
He couldn't get a job in Texas--we rescued him from being homeless.
two years is a pretty long game just for some tail.
You own the Portland place or rent?
If you can afford to, move out. Get the new life happening. Believe me, it will be better for the kids in the long run if everyone can be real about the situation. Kids are more resilient than we give them credit for most of the time. Living in the same house and not being yourself has got to be worse than living alone with the kids and being real about things.
Is there any other reason besides the kids that you're staying for?
you are a far, far stronger man than me. I wouldn't have been able to handle the stuff going on downstairs while I sat alone in my little room/prison cell.
Some guys are cut out to be cuckolds and some aren't.
That sounded a little cunty...
Clod, how could you be so mean to sexo?
Oh wait a minute...he deserved it! lol
That sounded a little cunty...
A lot cunty.
Ha. My phone learned cunty.
Cuntegonda was a character in Candide, IIRC.
That sounded a little cunty...
Clod, how could you be so mean to sexo?
Oh wait a minute...he deserved it! lol
A lot cunty.
Ha. My phone learned cunty.
Mutiny on the Cunty.
Dudley Do-Right of the Cunties
ACM - Academy of Cunty Music
No Cunty For Old Men
Cuntytime lemonade
Scarborough Fair/Cunticle
ACM - Academy of Cunty Music ...
She's a little bit cunty, he's a little bit
cock and roll.
Is there any other reason besides the kids that you're staying for?
Yes, I've been unemployed since I moved up here. I was doing contract work prior to making the final move up here (wife and kids were already here in the house I was paying for, so the kids could get acclimated to Portland before the start of their first school year here). I've just now found a new full time job, making a lot of money like I always had before. I start my new job next week--this is literally the first time in six months I haven't been trapped in a shitty situation with no options.
Ah, next week. I was under the impression you had already started the new job.
So do you have plans for what you intend to do next? Have you glanced at the real estate section of the paper to see the apartments? Or however you find apartments these days?
Light at the end of the tunnel, Flint.
God, what a total headfuck this whole thing sounds. I'm glad you're heading hopefully into calmer waters now m'dear.
I'd be looking for an attorney
If children are so resilient like everyone says, then why do I remember feeling so much turmoil, confusion and divided loyalties for years after my own parents were divorced? And trust issues which not only continue to this day, but are completely validated--people ARE selfish assholes who will do shitty things. So if children are so resilient, what does that mean--they'll learn sooner that the trials of life leave you with defining scars?
My son is like me--he just wants people to get along. He wants everyone to be okay, in a situation where that isn't possible. I know how he feels because I see it, and I remember feeling that way. My daughter is more emotionally mature, but if she is imprinting her stability on this situation, my concern is that she will have no idea what a relationship is--are people just pawns to be manipulated to suit your own purposes? Why not, if happiness is so easy to achieve by crawling over the backs of people you've betrayed?
Once I get free from this situation, the kids will see me being happy and stable and awesome. And they'll see their mother and I trying to cooperate and respect each other. The disingenuous aspect of this is that I will be compelled to treat someone with respect, out of necessity, whose actions haven't been honorable. I didn't make the decisions that created this situation, but I'll be the one carrying the burden. Picking up the pieces and making the best of a shitty situation--but what lessons will the children take away from this? And how, exactly, does that magical resilience I've heard so much about protect them from being fucked up by this?
It doesn't, kids are all mind fucked by their parents to some degree. Most kids are able to live their own lives eventually though. The danger is in what they come to believe is normal. You'll need to be pretty direct with them as they get older that this situation should not be repeated. I work with kids who are the product of multi-generational poverty and am shocked by what their parents think is normal.
They will feel sadness and confusion. They will be changed by this change. And they will survive. Resilient, not impervious.
You'll do what you must to mitigate the negative effects. They will get a glimpse of the bad side of relationships. They'll know you're suffering, and they'll see you come through it.
They will be ok. Because you'll both still love them. It really just is what it is for them. It's not like they've been raised in a family that stayed together before, and can compare this reality to that. It's not the optimal situation, but they're safe and loved.
Wait.....what if they look at the friend as the father figure and Flint is trying to take them away from them??
What makes you think Flint is after primary custody?
There is no magical resilience. That's a lie perpetuated by selfish people. Kids have always been damaged by selfish adults.
Integrity matters. Kids do appreciate that. They also appreciate the adults who had time for them. You can't protect your kids from what's inevitably coming, but you can be a stable center for them. Someone has to carry the burden. What lessons the kids take from the whole mess is not up to you.
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[YOUTUBE]9p_fFaRCdAE[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]6nlyWdvdUDA[/YOUTUBE]
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[YOUTUBE]9p_fFaRCdAE[/YOUTUBE]
He's your hero.
And he's a funny bastard.
Things getting any easier for you yet?
It's hit or miss. Got my own apartment; learning the new job. Some days doing fine, some days freaking out and wondering if I remember how to do anything, be an adult, and live by myself. But at least I'm just torturing myself--this is back to normal, lol.
Good for you, Flint. Seriously.
I'm glad you got your own place and are keeping on.
Much safer in your own place, they won't arrest you for torturing yourself.
I think it's a great step forward. How do the kids like it?
Did you get a puppy? Kids love puppies.