Who's walking on eggshells now?
The shoe is on the other foot now.
Yesterday, swmbo totally came out of a bag on me, and I just said Sorry, I'm moving out.
since then swmbo has been on best behaviour and giving me a wide berth. I'm looking for apartments.
scary as fuck, right now.
Call anytime, anon. my phone number is in your email inbox. I'm in your corner.
So sorry. Hang in there.
And protect yourself - find a good lawyer stat.
swmbo(?) totally came out of a bag on me,
I don't understand what this all means, but I get the general idea of your post anon.
Sorry it's all going pear shaped. Good luck with getting things back in order. xx
Keep your head high and on straight, and you'll make it through this all right. You know we're here for you.
Ali SWMBO is
She
Who
Must
Be
Obayed
Generly Wifey for us Yanks
Anon , Stay Strong , We ALL are with you !!!
Get as much done as possible in case she forces you out before you're ready. Move guns, tools, etc, to a safe location.
that's advice you should heed, foot. bruce sees clearly. especially re the wimminz. he who recovers first recovers best.
Stay safe, anon, and keep a level head.
Sent by thought transference
What the others have said, and a *hug*
scary as fuck, right now.
Sorry, man! But like the others have said, we are here for you.
Sorry to hear of this.
Soon to come are the best days of your life.
what Toad said.
I"m sorry, too. :(
Be well, anon. Have peace.
Maybe wait until youre settled down a bit to have a piece.
I haven't been around and I dunno who or what is going on, but hang in there. There is LIFE on the other side. Many of us have been through it.
Hang tight, keep your head about you and THINK before acting.
Be well.
yeah, I;ve been thru it TWICE.
sucked both times but one time sucked harder than the other.
LOVE to you, anon.
Oh, this sucks.
But my sense of the matter is that you've been way too unhappy for way too long. I know there are two sides to every story but your situation seems a bit nightmarish and the end result is the same: you're unhappy as hell and that's no way to live.
Hang in there.
Good luck dude. Bruce is right, get your gear out and safely stowed.
Holy shit! I actually know who we're talking about. I think it's the first time.
You're both wrong. Jim is Spartacus!
I'm not Spartacus...am I?:confused:
No, I'm Spartacus. Equal opportunity, y'know.
Women can use you and toss you aside without ever looking back. It hurts. I still hurt deeply from my last crash & burn 5 years ago. But, things do get better and it really helps if you can move away so you don't run into her or even hear about her
Sorry to hear, Anon. Stay strong and good luck. :hug:
Women can use you and toss you aside without ever looking back. (snip) But, things do get better and it really helps if you can move away so you don't run into her/him or even hear about her/him
Men do the same thing, often much more efficiently than women manage to. But I'm biased, and this thread is anon's. Just sayin' - it cuts both ways.
And moving away is a good thing, I've found.
It certainly does cut both ways, there's nasty people in every camp.
So I went to see a counselor the other day to address some of the emotional issues. At one point he said, "It doesn't sound like you need marriage counseling, it sounds like you need divorce counseling."
I've not moved out yet, but I am in another bedroom and there's a lot of civility. which is good, One of the things I've realized just recently is that she doesn't really love me, although she says and thinks she does. It's more like she likes the idea of loving me but wouldn't really know what love was if it bit her on the ankle. I'm sure she loves the kids, but she's not married to them.
Anyway, I'm taking steps to keep things civil for the kids and paving the way for divorce counseling.
Kind of scary.
I remember that milestone.
Scary is just one of the feelings I was buffeted by in that storm of emotions. I can't fucking advise you on which way to run or turn to avoid x or y or z. I was opposed to divorce for a LONG time. I sought **marriage** counselors, not *divorce* counseling. I didn't get what I was wanted, but I did get what I needed, to borrow a lyric. It's true, too.
Civility is good, but don't let it inhibit your efforts to protect yourself.
Great advice. Civility is good, especially where kids are involved. And one person can take the high road even if the other person stops at some point.
But - do protect yourself. Most of us probably wish we'd done a better job. 'Nuff said.
And the emotional storm - I didn't realize it would happen and wasn't well prepared for it; I thought I was totally resolved and didn't expect to feel yanked hither and yon. Knowing about it, preparing for it, is a good thing.
Glad things are calm for now. Get your stuff safe, take care of yourself, be good to yourself. People here have your back.
i try to be very nice to my ex, but she sure takes advantage of me. she had me do her front brakes in the parking lot of an auto supply store on friday. i even had to pay for all the parts and have the rotors turned. most of ya'll know the hell i went through when she left me for another soldier while i was in a military hospital. i went 18 months without seeing addie. anyway, by being nice i get to see addie just about anytime i want.
of course i should have known better than try to have a relationship with a girl 26 years younger than me. never again!
26 years younger!?
You need to re-read Ortho's advice on that matter. She's a doctor.
I know, but little ead was thinking. I had just come back from a pretty rough tour in Iraq and went buck wild in a college town. The only thing I can say in my defense is she had big titties and freckles
I know, but little ead was thinking. I had just come back from a pretty rough tour in Iraq and went buck wild in a college town. The only thing I can say in my defense is she had big titties and freckles
Your honor, we drop our charges.
Oh, another negative was I dated her mother in college :(
Oh, another negative was I dated her mother in college :(
:shock:
Now this is getting good!
ya'll don't remember all of this drama in 2008 and early 2009? i totally spilled my guts. i was hurting so bad. i still haven't recovered
Now that you mention it, it does sound familiar. But I don't remember the details. I'm glad you have a good enough relationship with her to be able to go driving trucks through the woods with Addie.
I remember sarge but the fact that she was 26 yrs. your junior and you'd dated her mom slipped by me.
Hey, big guy. It took me 11 (as in eleven) years to get over my ex. But I did. And now I'm glad I'm not in his life anymore. he got weird.
snip--
Hey, big guy. It took me 11 (as in eleven) years to get over my ex. But I did. And now I'm glad I'm not in his life anymore. he got weird.
I'm at this stage. It's not gonna take eleven years though. We still have the connection of a minor child, so there's that. Everything else has fallen off to opposite sides of some emotional/social mountain range that lies between our positions. The distance now is amazing.
My ex is still a manipulator. She married the other soldier 2 weeks before he deployed. They were divorced 18 months after he got home. Now she calls me to handle all of the "men's work". I play nice because of Addie. Plus, she still has big titties and freckles
My ex is still a manipulator. She married the other soldier 2 weeks before he deployed. They were divorced 18 months after he got home. Now she calls me to handle all of the "men's work". I play nice because of Addie. Plus, she still has big titties and freckles
Sarge, Sarge ...
:facepalm:
So I've been going to get my brain tightened once a week now for a while and learning how to negotiate the split, she just began seeing a counselor of her own and the idea is that after a while we go see someone together who has spoken with each of our shrinks.
So my homework for the week is to think about who I am taking care of in our interactions and learn to take care of me. OK sounds good, very hard to do or even notice at the time.
So today a friend of ours stops by and invites us to a thing tonight; music and dancing. I don't really dance, or I should say I really don't dance. I do dance but not to the beat everyone else is hearing. I find it very hard to pick out the bass in most music as I have a figure/ground hearing issue. So for all intents and purposes I don't dance with other people.
And, I really hate last minute invites to things sometimes. It depends a lot on who and what, but this was one of those times. These were are hippy friends who believe in extra terrestrials, chemtrails, and other really really out there conspiracy theories. They are a lot of fun in minute doses, not whole evenings worth.
And, I really am not so into going on a "date" with my wife especially when she thinks it would be an antidote rather than some sort of nostrum for our slowly poisoned marriage.
Here's the mind boggling part that reminds me of how out of it she really is. After asking me if I want to go out with her on a date (Not really, I don't dance and I don't want to sit next to mr hippy who doesn't dance and listen to him drone on without a pause about ...) she then proceeds to explain to me that the purpose of going on a date is for me to look at her and admire her and shower her with lots of attention, more admiration, desire, and longing.
So based on that it would seem that she thinks the reason our marriage is on the rocks is that I don't worship her enough. That is true because you can't fill a well with snow, but why would I be leaving her if all I needed to do to make everything better was to worship her? I can see how she's trying to change the problem in her mind to one she can win at. It isn't that she was so nasty to me over the years that she killed any warm feelings I had, it's that she's leaving because I am not paying her enough attention and here's my chance to make things better.
I am deep in WTF territory and putting the full court press on full time job hunting so I can either buy her out or move out.
Not sure how much sense any of that made.
The only part that didn't make sense is where you see a counselor together who has talked to both counselors. WTF is that bullshit? Is that something you think YOU need, or was it dictated to you? Just take care of your own bad self, her surprise is coming down the road when there's nobody putting her pussy on a pedestal.
Foot - If you haven't read Gone Girl, I recommend you do it very soon. Your situation reminded me of the book.
I agree with UT. Unless it gives you leverage with the court, fuck it.
Its impossible to really know what's going on in someone else's head. We all paint our worlds to our own needs and tastes. And we never really know what old hurts and grievances our partners may be holding on to. Your wife may be blind to the hurts she has inflicted and see only those sustained. And who knows, maybe vice versa. Or she may be reaching for reasons that make it not her fault.
Doesn't matter either way. What's important now is protecting your self. Emotionally, financially and any other 'ally you want to add.
I also am a tad cynical about relationship counsellors and the like. I think you know when it's over. Might take a while to allow that thought real headroom, or recognise it for what it is, but I think there is a point of no return in relationships. Once you go past that point it's the endgame.
Anyways. Them's just my thoughts. I feel for you, I do. It's a shitty place to be right now. But this too will pass, and at the end of the journey is resolution and change.
If I may echo Dana with an Aussie accent...
Dates? Counsellors? Fuck that shit. It's OVER. The only thing now is to complete the extraction with a minimum of further damage. Avoid being suckered into mind games.
I think the counselors are to help make the split amicable, not to keep the marriage together. At least that was my interpretation. Although it does seem that the Mrs. is not seeing it the same way.
Once again, Her Fobbulousness hits it on the head. The point of the counselors is to minimize damage control and make the split as amicable as possible.
I am seeing my guy because he is helping me see when I am being manipulated or subjected to crazy logic and also to learn how to take care of myself rather than adapting to someone else's needs. Believe it or not this has been something I've been completely oblivious to for most of my life. (Mom was a hard core narcissistic borderline personality who made sure we understood we existed to make her happy and look good)
So my counselor has already been very helpful to me already by teaching me when I am being baited and how not to get sucked in. I suspect my emotional IQ is hovering around 60. Probably less. There's just a lot of stuff I don't see mainly because I can't be arsed to play games, I just assume everyone is bargaining in good faith. I can be a real tool.
The point of us seeing a counselor together is mostly so I can get a witness, I really doubt that hearing what I've been saying from a third party will make any difference but at least I will have that shit on record if it comes to that. The other part of that is it is truly impossible to have a rational conversation with her, so that would preclude any type of "Let's hash this out ourselves like a couple of grownups" conversations.
Her seeing a counselor independently is mainly for her to get her side down and perhaps reveal to her person how nutty she is or when our counselors talk to one another and compare notes they will be aware of the disconnect.
This scenario was proposed to me by a friend who is a therapist. It's no skin off my teeth as insurance is paying for it. And I don't see how it could backfire on me as I know for a fact I am not crazy, depressive, yes. Crazy, no.
At my first session with my counselor he said "It sounds to me like you don't need a marriage counselor, you need a divorce counselor. So that's basically what he is to me, and has been amazingly helpful to me in seeing things about myself and my adaptive behaviors that I've never really seen before.
I will read Gone Girl, Thanks for the tip, Pete.
I have been patiently lining up my pieces and doing my homework, Thankfully, two years ago my state enacted no fault divorce which makes things go much quicker assuming both parties are amicable, otherwise it can drag on for years and thousands of dollars.
I have been focusing the rest of my energy on full time career change trading what I've done historically for a new pasture. I've also been spending a lot more time with the kids who know something is up but have not been told. They frequently bring up divorce as a subject, the younger one, the mm, is very clingy and has taken a few steps backwards in the potty department, cries a lot when her mom goes out and so forth.
Thanks for all your feedback.
OK, dat splain it. Glad you've got your head on straight.
Oh, and you're far from a tool. :smack:
hanghanghang in there. You're on the right track.
Stay strong ... no fault is great if things can stay amicable.
Sounds like you have a good handle on the situation. Stay strong, you'll be through this before you know it.
Thanks folks. It feels like I'm crapping a red hot brick.
That doesn't sound very good. Sorry, Man.
It's like, in order to be her partner you were required to twist yourself into different shapes, and now you get to return to your original shape.
My ex was an accountant and would detail expenses down to the penny and everything had to be split equally. She was an ultra hard-ass about it. It could never even be "hey I got it this time you get it next time" because if the next time she had to pay $2 more, she would remember that and get annoyed.
So I twisted into that shape. Then when copacetic Jackie came around, she noticed that I was uptight about splitting things, even a year after the ex was gone.
When you return to your original shape, it feels good.
update:
things are heating up. More tomorrow.
It feels like I'm crapping a red hot brick.
update:
things are heating up. More tomorrow.
I found these two posts together rather humorous...
What UT said! He totally nailed it.
OMG you married your mother! :eek: Now that I have that out of the way I can commiserate. Not that I have anything like your situation i just hate that you are in the one you are in. Stay smart.....
Today the inch asked me point blank if mrs. foot and I were getting divorced. I think I did pretty well at not throwing his mom under the bus. I have to keep conscious about that.
It was kind of sad when he suggested ways to prevent his mom from getting angry all the time.
I need a lot more sleep to sort things out.
Also have been listening to "Gone Girl" on audio books. Holy crap.
That's tough. :( How old are the inch and mm now?
When my boys father and I split, they were only little and they didn't seem to be too bothered about us not being together so much. I think largely because it was usually only one or the other of us at home at bed time mostly so there wasn't that adjustment for starters. I think it was easier.
They still asked the same questions though. Just not for a few years, and by then they were used to us not being together anymore anyway.
My brother and I were about those ages when our parents got divorced. He was apparently pretty affected by it, though we didn't really know how much until years later, while I genuinely couldn't have cared less one way or the other. It just depends on the kid.
That's very tough, I'm sorry. Every child reacts differently; sounds like yours are very perceptive and want honesty. Probably a good thing.
Worst thing I heard from the boy (phone call saying goodnight) about a week after we split...
'I don't get it... Don't you and mommy love each other anymore?'
I died a little.
But kids are v resilient. They will adapt to the new reality faster than either of you adults. Feel for you, bro.
kids are tough and smart and usually play you like a fiddle.
All the world knows I have daddy issues; my 22 year old let me know he has mommie issues because of, yes, moi. okay. So THAT particular pos got handed down.
and the hard core narcissistic mother who let you know you existed to honor and worship her? Yeah, sorry but you married her. S'okay though. I married my dad.
Twice.
Why does life have to suck so hard 90% of the time? and that shimmering 10%----unless you take pics it never happened.
[ATTACH]42439[/ATTACH]
Ah, so random events don't come into play?
that plane that landed on my house? That was a result of my choice?
Hokay.
Everything you DO, not everything that HAPPENS to you. Bad shit happening to you is the result of god punishing you for idolatry and fornication.
Fornication? Idolatry? That's probably why my water heater died today!:eyebrow:
Serves you right for trying to screw it, then. That's not what heaters are designed for.
All the world knows I have daddy issues; my 22 year old let me know he has mommie issues because of, yes, moi.
Wait,
he has mother issues? So tell him not to be one.
Wait, he has mother issues? So tell him not to be one.
Next time I talk to him I will. I wasn't mean, humiliating, dismissive or contemptuous of my boys (like my dad was to me) I love them and they know it; but I wasn't physically there for him. AND he's a college student so he knows, like, everything.
Everything you DO, not everything that HAPPENS to you. Bad shit happening to you is the result of god punishing you for idolatry and fornication.
thank god for clearing that up! I was worried I wasn't idolatrous and fornicating
enough!Today the inch asked me point blank if mrs. foot and I were getting divorced. I think I did pretty well at not throwing his mom under the bus. I have to keep conscious about that.
It was kind of sad when he suggested ways to prevent his mom from getting angry all the time.
I need a lot more sleep to sort things out.
Also have been listening to "Gone Girl" on audio books. Holy crap.
I have slept on my reply to this post for a few days now. I feel the same now as I did when I read it the first time, so I'll weigh in. My whole sermon is based on my own experiences. Your descriptions sound frighteningly familiar. I gotten more than one shudder of ptsd reading them.
[COLOR="LemonChiffon"]First of all, very, very good for not throwing mom under the bus. Good choice, good job--there's more of this to come. The primary beneficiaries of this choice are of course the inch and the mm. Kids love their mothers, as they should. No kid benefits from having his dad throw his mom under the bus. You also benefit from doing good, because it's good to do the right thing; also, you avoid giving the mrs another reason to be angry. It was a good choice, I'd say stick with this plan.
While we're on the subject of angry spouses, this response by the inch breaks my heart. It is just like countless responses I've heard--hell, I've *made*--in my own experience. Anger... it's something we've all experienced in ourselves and in others. It's a part of our humanity, and a necessary, useful part. It's inescapable, but for it to be genuinely useful, it has to be valid. Just like fear can help us do what needs to be done, so anger can serve a useful purpose. Finding out what that purpose is crucial. Without knowing the reason for the anger, reacting to it, trying to defuse or avoid it is pointless, possibly even harmful.
It's understandable though, who wants to be around an angry person? No one, your inch's instincts are completely understandable. But if the anger is unreasonable, then the source can't be reasoned with, it's not possible. This is why knowing *why* is so important. Without knowing the why behind the anger, trying to prevent it is like running around a battlefield "trying to avoid" the artillery shells and the landmines. It's random frantic activity with no real hope of success.
I don't know the reasons for the anger in your home, maybe they're good ones, maybe not, maybe a mix, whatever. In my home, back in the day, they were a mix, but mostly they were from a *habit* of being angry. I responded to the anger with attempts to defuse, to avoid, to placate. Also to rebut, to fight back, to justify, etc. I came to see, and I see now that my part in that particular dance often helped perpetuate the anger. This was a big mistake.
For me, calling bullshit and then not joining in the fight is a much, much healthier response. But... it's not one I modeled for my kids for a **long** time. And, it breaks my heart to hear my kids repeating my error. These days it's really only SonofV that does it, the older ones are able to put a suitable distance between them and the heat of her anger, they're in control of that. SonofV doesn't have that option. I have heard him express that same earnest desire, "how can I keep her from getting mad?".
Really?? He's a good kid. The things he does do not merit an angry response, but he has to face her anger often. It kills me to see him flinching from psychic blows that *might* land, but I know where he's coming from. It took me many years to learn how to respond better, and in the process we divorced. I gained the same distance the older kids have, and that SonofV doesn't have. During those years I helped model what I see now and that's on me. But now I am modeling better responses and I am explicitly teaching them to him. How to look past the anger to the reason for the anger and responding appropriately to the source, not just reacting to the anger. It is MUCH HARDER, but much healthier and rewarding.
...
I don't know footfootfoot. I'm no great sage. I just know what I've been through, what I've read, what I've learned. I also read about the inch's stalwart refusal to engage about Dewdrop's (or Dewdrop's partner's) provocative costume. That was funny! And that same dispassionate resolve will serve him well when he can summon it in future fires. It will be a kind of emotional insulation to protect him. I see you're also learning how to recognize when it employ it. Good on all of you. I'm encouraged that SonofV is learning what I learned but thirty years sooner. The inch will be ok too, as will the mm, and you and the mrs for that matter. But there will be a difficult transition to new habits on the way. Learning when to fight fire with fire and when to walk on by is one of the harder ones.
[/COLOR]
tl;dr
good job not throwing mom under the bus.
it hurts to hear the kids trying to strategize how to keep mom from getting angry all the time. eventually, everyone will learn how to distance themselves from that bullshit.
I've been there brother, and I'm here for you now.
thank god for clearing that up! I was worried I wasn't idolatrous and fornicating enough!
We need to hear more about this. Have you got any pics:corn:
3F - don't let get to you. I know how it can eat at your soul. I think BigV gave some great advice