Buying a New Car

US-centric thread, sorry.

I hate it. I need help. Yes, this is our second new car this year. Yes, the minivan, yes we need a new van. Must have slidey doors.

No more info about needs/lokes/wants b/c everyone ignores them anyway. Test drove the Town and Country today, quite liked it.

We're (apparently but it kinda surprised us given our upbringings.....) "buy new, run for 10+ years" kind of people.

need advice about buying new cars, current minivans, test-driving, dealer-speak etc.....

But before all y'all tell us how to bargain...... Beest is "in the industry-ish" and we get 1% below invoice on the T&C So if you want to advise on the price aspect, there's a starting point. (and again, all advice welcome, thanks)

oh and getting finance is not an issue -focus is on total $ paid, not monthly payments, if that makes sense.... Although not complaining about a good deal -just hear that some people pick their cars by monthly payment regardless of final cost......

I do adore our MPV. Which they are now apparently calling a "Mazda5" instead. But the thing that has always made it awesome is how the third row magically collapses completely flat into the floor, leaving a whole truck bed's worth of space in the back. I can't tell from the Mazda website if the damn thing even does that anymore.

tx. the t&c does that too.

Minivans are called MPVs in the UK

This is actually a rather timely thread for me--our previously mentioned MPV is displaying 175,000 miles of hard use right now. We are expecting it to be dead in another year or so, and need to start getting an idea of what's out there.

Brother's family likes their Honda Odyssey...often hauling three kids and a large dog, and various other eccentrics, um...relatives.

It's sharp. State o' the art.

My understanding is the MPV is a different vehicle than the Mazda5. The Mazda5 is smaller and more fuel efficient and maneuverable with fairly cramped seating, and the MPV is a standard sized minivan with the fuel economy you would expect from one.

We're actually replacing our 2000 Venture too. Probably next year.

Front running candidate for the new vehicle is the Toyota FJ.

infinite monkey;825665 wrote:

Brother's family likes their Honda Odyssey...often hauling three kids and a large dog, and various other eccentrics, um...relatives.

It's sharp. State o' the art.

By all reviews Odysseys are the cream of the crop, with a price tag to match, I don't get any deal on them. :sniff:

Give me a call tomorrow if I can help, monstah.

OK so I'm pissed right now. I just got this email and I call BS. Am I right?

Hi Monster,

I just got a call from a customer that wanted a base model Town & Country. The one you drove is the only one we have. When your husband comes in do you think you all would want that particular T&C that we drove? Availability is short with 2012s and if you want that vehicle I will not show it to this customer.

Thanks,

Suspected Wanker

Cueter Chrysler

This sound very familiar, having just bought a Fit in January. Is that a rat I are smelling?

I call BS. Classic car (and other type) sales M.O.

We had a T&C for about ten years; it was a pretty good car. Every North American vehicle we ever owned had major issues, though (the T&C had chronic A/C problems and the struts dissolved in rust; other cars were worse). Every Toyota we owned was great - driven to 200,000 miles with regular maintenance and no other issues.

If you drive a vehicle 10+ years, as you said, you might want to look at Toyotas.

"Yeah, buddy. You go ahead and show the car to that 'other customer.' Have fun with that."

Unimaginative, blatantly lying. Do not buy from a liar.

It's just offensive, really. Did I really appear that dumb? I told him I'd walk away if he messed with me. Will he now have me on file as "his" so no other chrysler dealer can touch me? Ugh. Now I just want to pump more money into my 12yo Windstar to keep it running some more. I told you i hate car shopping and this is why.

I mean beest saw several of these models at the other dealership...... it's just this one is closer to me. And she said she could transfer between dealerships, yet he's all like "it's this one or nothing...."

*shudders and feels dirty*

It's typical Car Sales 101, their managers probably sack them if they don't do it ... you can just answer the email and sweetly tell him to go right ahead and show the car to that 'other customer' ... and go and buy from someone else. But they're all liars, so ... you pays your money and takes your choice. ;)

But couldn't they at least put a little effort into it? ah well....

Yeah, be creative when you lie to me. Is that too much to ask?

Back a few, I was looking at a Mercury that kind of appealed to me (although I didn't really need another car). I'm in the guy's office, along comes another sales guy with "another customer" who wants to test drive the Merc "if this guy isn't buying it". My guy says "You want it or not?" I toss the other "customer" the keys, tell him it's a real nice car and leave. I'll just add that I was there early and from where I was sitting, there were no other customers in the place.
Salesguy called me for a week, until I told him I had bought a new Saab instead.

When I was shopping for hatchbacks the first guy I spoke to, at a local Ford dealer, strigjht out lied to me about the availability of manual hatchbacks, went in his office to check the database, one manual hatcback in all of Michigan, across the state, might already be sold.

Any other dealer I went to, within 20 miles of this guy, had at least 2 or 3 sitting on the lot.

[youtube]sX6hMhL1YsQ[/youtube]

Maybe it's an old school thing, they don't know I can check the inventoryof dealers myself from their own websites, maybe a lot of customers don't know this and the trick still works.

how funny, I was going to post that clip too -but i wanted it dubbed to "Cellar says bullshit"

Monster,

The other Chrysler dealers are this guy's competitors. they do not black list customers. go to the dealer that shows the van you want in inventory. use the pricing beest gets as a MAXIMUM price. offer something lower than that. next week is a good week to buy.

pay no more than 2.75% for a 5 year loan with your good credit. analyze rebate vs special APR option, too. I can offer some help with that if you like.

Looks like they have $2000 rebate plus $1250 Ally/Chase bonus.... whatever that is... and some kind of trade in assistance thing. maybe call 2 different dealers and ask for the details on those offers.

Thanks Jim :)

no prob, and good luck! car shopping should NOT suck.

all shopping sucks

Jim, when I have a down payment saved and an offer from my credit union, will you advise me on trading in my Avalanche on a new one?

Yes, I know you don't work for Chevrolet, but I am assuming that the process is similar everywhere.

Of course. Its in my contract

You wouldn't buy a $40 camera without shopping around, why spend thousands without doing so? In these internet days I even shop around before buying a CD.

I go out, look at cars, decide what I want then go visit as many dealers as is practical and decide upon the best deal no matter which salesman has the prettiest smile. Some places I'll never go back to.

See, I disagree with that. Ill pay more if the service is excellent. If the sales person has the balls to ask you to pay $1-200 more because he plans on remembering who you are the next day, and the dealer its closer....

But only to a point.

Rhianne;826437 wrote:

You wouldn't buy a $40 camera without shopping around, why spend thousands without doing so? In these internet days I even shop around before buying a CD.

I go out, look at cars, decide what I want then go visit as many dealers as is practical and decide upon the best deal no matter which salesman has the prettiest smile. Some places I'll never go back to.

Who said they weren't shopping around? Not me for sure. Also, you're in the UK. No offence, but you have no idea. And that was kind of a patronizing post.

Okay.

...and it's 3am. Are you OK?

...because that was also a little out of character.

#seepatronizing is contagious -but I did mean that genuinely

It is 3am, I'll be up for a couple of hours yet, it takes a while to wind down.

Good luck with your car hunting, I'm a car lover, I hope you get what you want.

I want my old car to last for another 12 years :(

Rhianne;826493 wrote:

It is 3am, I'll be up for a couple of hours yet, it takes a while to wind down.

Good luck with your car hunting, I'm a car lover, I hope you get what you want.

I was a car lover too, when I was younger. I'm not as agile now, and the gear shift isn't on the column in my current car so it just gets in the way.

Um so I are a car idiot. But, after driving the 2012 T&C then going back to my 12yo windstar, I prefer my Windstar. It accelerates like a boss. I just wish the darn transmission wasn't a timebomb... apparently we've spent over $3000 on it this last 12 months and the transmission (notorious for blowing around 10o-150K on windstars) still hasn't gone...... (we're at 160K)

So they're busy trying to sell off 2012 models now. What happens to them if they're not gone in the next week?

nothing.

have you looked at the Quest?

plus $1250 Ally/Chase bonus.... whatever that is.

A kickback for placing the financing with Ally/Chase.

lumberjim;827246 wrote:

nothing.

have you looked at the Quest?

Any color you like as long it's not a color.:gray:

monster;827235 wrote:

Um so I are a car idiot. But, after driving the 2012 T&C then going back to my 12yo windstar, I prefer my Windstar.

I know exactly what you mean. My 16 year old Geo Prizm is better than any new car offered for sale today. That I can afford, anyway. I'm gonna drive this thing into the ground. I figure if we spend on average $1K a year on repairs to keep it going in top form, we're better off than buying a new car.

Try shopping around for a transmission place before you need the work done. The chains and the dealers are going to charge the most. There's probably a hole in the wall transmission place that does good work and is half what those other places charge. About 18 years ago, our old Buick's transmission died, and the tow truck driver took it to a little shop he knew of. I forget the actual numbers, but a couple weeks later we went to a funeral and I was talking to an uncle who had just had the transmission fixed at Aamco for his car, and he paid 3 times more than I had paid. He was pissed when he heard that.

lumberjim;827246 wrote:

nothing.

have you looked at the Quest?

Hmm, edmunds and cars.com both liked the 2012, only slight gripe was the interior space with the seats folded isn't as big as others. Huge end of season discount right now.

But really Titanium beige is the nearest thing to a color,
Super Black, has HotBlack Desiato feel to it.

I can fix the color with duck tape :)

Ugh, back to it.... it wasn't the transmission that got it in the end, the ABS is kaput. $1,000. Um, no.

Beest just drove an Odyssey and like it, but $$$ and absolutekly no trade discount (although it sounds like that may be irrelevant to the end price at this time of year......?)

did you check out fightingchance.com?

I did. I remain sceptical....

monster;831637 wrote:

I did. I remain sceptical....

I bought my Sonata GLS for 15,800. Sticker price was 21,800.

My friend got his Toyota Tacoma for 2,000 less than sticker price.

If nothing else, the negotiating techniques are great.

And Skeptical has only one c. The one towards the end of the word. ;)

How much does a dealer make on a new car anyway?

I am very close to making my deal now, say two more weeks.
I will have to order what I want and the dealer will either trade for it or get it from the factory.
My trade in is worth around $17,000 according to KBB.com.

We're probably going to buy a used car this weekend. Haven't chosen it yet, but once we do, how do we negotiate price?

We're looking on cars.com at mid-sized sedans that are recommended by Consumer Reports in the $6K to $8K range. These are going to be cars from around 2003, give or take, and have in the neighborhood of 100K miles on them.

Do I just randomly ask for $500 less than the price they are listing the car for? I'm not sure how I could find out what they acquired the car for, presumable when someone traded it in. It's not like I can get dealers competing against each other, because the supply is fairly limited. Whatever car I decide I want, there are going to be no other cars just like it on the market in my area. They will have different mileage or different options.

I assume the price tag on the used car will be negotiable. I'd like to negotiate from a position of at least a little knowledge. I won't have anywhere near as much knowledge as the salesman who knows what they paid for the car and what they will take.

6-8k is a tricky range. you could get fucked. you could find a peach. take the car to your mechanic to be inspected if the dealer will let you. get the car fax.

It's actually hard to find a car like that at a regular new car dealer. and if you do, they either sell it as-is, or they've done the work to it, and it costs too much. You're probably buying a car that would trade for 4k. for an import that means over 100k.

most salesman have a short list of people that are looking for that kind of car, and as soon as one is traded, it goes.

we DO have an 03 Accord in our inventory that has been here for 67 days, and the new boss wants everything over 60 days to go away. we have about $7377 in that car. if you want to drive up, you can get it for $8377 plus tax, tags. NADA retail value is $10,250.

http://www.cherryhillnissan.com/preowned/2003-Honda-Accord-Sdn-New-Jersey-1HGCM56393A069334.htm

my sister put 200k on her 98 accord. thing is still running.

BrianR;831722 wrote:

How much does a dealer make on a new car anyway?

I am very close to making my deal now, say two more weeks.
I will have to order what I want and the dealer will either trade for it or get it from the factory.
My trade in is worth around $17,000 according to KBB.com.

If you're buying new, you can go to Consumer Reports (Consumer's Union) and pay $12 for the dealer's cost, shipping, wholesale on options, rebates, incentives(kickbacks) to dealers, and any other pertinent information. For a month you can log in and check for changes, which happen more often than you would think.

Now you know exactly what the dealer pays, which can keep you from getting raped, but don't be a dick. The dealer has to make a profit, apart from what they make on financing and selling your trade-in, or they won't be around long. You want them there, and on your side, if there's a problem.

jimhelm;831861 wrote:

6-8k is a tricky range. you could get fucked. you could find a peach. take the car to your mechanic to be inspected if the dealer will let you. get the car fax.

It's actually hard to find a car like that at a regular new car dealer. and if you do, they either sell it as-is, or they've done the work to it, and it costs too much. You're probably buying a car that would trade for 4k. for an import that means over 100k.

most salesman have a short list of people that are looking for that kind of car, and as soon as one is traded, it goes.

we DO have an 03 Accord in our inventory that has been here for 67 days, and the new boss wants everything over 60 days to go away. we have about $7377 in that car. if you want to drive up, you can get it for $8377 plus tax, tags. NADA retail value is $10,250.

http://www.cherryhillnissan.com/preowned/2003-Honda-Accord-Sdn-New-Jersey-1HGCM56393A069334.htm

my sister put 200k on her 98 accord. thing is still running.

We'll definitely take it to our mechanic to check it over.

We looked at a Sienna and an Odyssey at that price point last weekend. We brought the kids to check out the back. They quickly destroyed the Sienna. I felt a little bad, but the kids really didn't break it. they just discovered the flaw right away. There is some thumb button up at the top of the sliding doors that you push in to get them to open automatically. They pushed the button in, and the door didn't open and the button got jammed. I looked closely at the button and saw that it had been jammed before and had been pried out. The plastic molding was all scratched up around the button. So they climbed out a different door and we left the salesman there trying to fix the thing.

The Odyssey was nice. Everything worked well. I'm temped to buy it, but my wife decided she didn't want to drive around in a minivan. So we're going to look at mid-sized sedans.

Thanks for the offer on the Accord. It looks very nice. I wish you were local. I'd probably buy it from you. But I can't invest 4-5 hours of driving to get a car I haven't even test driven or had my mechanic check out. I'd be locked in after making that trip. But the math is interesting. Are you giving me the Cellar discount, or would you give that price to a tough negotiator?

NADA retail value (whatever that is) is $10,250
You have it listed for $9995
You are willing to let it go for $8377
It cost you $7377

Are those ratios pretty typical? I'm not even looking at the cars listed for $10k since they are more than I want to spend. Maybe I should be aiming higher in the hopes I can negotiate.

this is a 'decreasing value menu'

this is what you may be presented with in finance. these items are negotiable, and available individually. as you can see, the same items appear in some of the packages. each bold type title is an individual policy. very rare that someone goes with the platinum, because not every policy is appropriate for different situations.

if you're financing more than 85% of the vehicle's value for more than 3 years, GAP is probably a good idea. I believe in service contracts if the price is right, and offered by the manufacturer. Also, the Road Hazard, if the car you're getting has big tires and wheels.

[COLOR="Red"]1.[/COLOR] price of policy (this is usually not shown until the final selection is made)

[COLOR="Red"]2.[/COLOR] the payment impact

[COLOR="Red"]3. [/COLOR] total car payment with the selected package included

[COLOR="Red"]4. [/COLOR] the payment with no additions. (the salesman may have given you a number higher than this, but that number should be the truth)

glatt;831897 wrote:

Thanks for the offer on the Accord. It looks very nice. I wish you were local. I'd probably buy it from you. But I can't invest 4-5 hours of driving to get a car I haven't even test driven or had my mechanic check out. I'd be locked in after making that trip. But the math is interesting. Are you giving me the Cellar discount, or would you give that price to a tough negotiator?

NADA retail value (whatever that is) is $10,250
You have it listed for $9995
You are willing to let it go for $8377
It cost you $7377

Are those ratios pretty typical? I'm not even looking at the cars listed for $10k since they are more than I want to spend. Maybe I should be aiming higher in the hopes I can negotiate.

i think we traded it for 6500 and did 877 in various recon. no, $1000 over cost on a used is a low margin. most places wont let it go that cheap unless it's some kind of white elephant. i was just trying to give you an idea of what that money buys. if you can find this same car for this same money near you, you're doing well. when a family member or friend buys a used car here, it's usually $1500 over on a retail type car. $500 over on a wholesale car. this one is kind of a tweener. it should have sold by now. I guess it's at the high end of most cash buyer's budgets.


NADA is the pricing guide the banks use to set values to base their loans on. some dealers use it to place values on cars they trade, too.

left in the morning planning to buy the Honda Odyssey if we could agree a good price. Guy was such an asshole, that after the test drive (which was OK but not in the car we had ageed to drive and therefore kind of irrelevant) we went straight across the road to the Chrysler/Dodge dealer -the one that beest had spoken to before and had shown what a lying asshole/by the steroetype book salesdickhead the one we had been dealing with before was.....

Said "hey, we're back. we didn't buy last month because we got all set on the T&C and then it drove like a pile of junk and the salesguy was a dick. So we put it on hold. ........Now we got a kick up the butt to get back into the market and we got all set on the Odyssey..... but the dealer across the road didn't get the "don't give us sales bullshit and we'll be straight with you otherwise we'll walk" so he pulled shit and we walked. Can you convince us that it was the car we drove and not the brand as a whole that's shit, and that it's just the other salespeople and not all of then that don't realize we just want the straight shit?"

Talked to us for a bit, really got a feel for what we wanted (nice drive but no bells and whilstles) Gave us a higher level Grand Caravan to try (over the base t&C -supposed to be comparable, but no, they are not really). (First T&C/Dodge guy lied by saying not possible to get one anymore). It drove fine. As good as if not marginally better than the Odyssey. Previous test-drive must have been a fluke re a T&C thing. (For non Americans/car people -they're pretty much the same car but branded for a different market -didn't encouter such a thing before moving here, so can't find a good simile. A Rose by any other name...."

....It has everything we need, nothing we don't need. the rear seats are not as comfortable as the windstar's, but they fold into the floor rather than needing to be hauled out and stored in the garage when we don't need them. Excellent.

Yes, there are "standard features" of the T&C (and the Odyssey) that would be nice, but there are many more that look like they would be majorly expensive once the warranty expires and are not really essential to our life. i'll take the $100 less per month over that.

So I think we're paying the (refundable) deposit to get one moved to our dealer for us to try before we sign on the line. Tomorrow. (The one we tried today was moved there for another client)

This is the second new car we have shopped for in the last 12 months, we're kind of horrified by the "standard sales tactics" and even more so by the people who just don't believe that we will walk if you treat us like moronic purchasing puppets. This person totally "got us" They saved a whole lot of time/effort/bullshit by downgrading rather than upgrading us. They made it clear there's no real negotiation beyond our industry and manufacturer rebates. They weren't willing to waste time negotiating. (Which is disappointing in that we'd like to pay a little less but then again not -we hate negotiation and our time is valuable too and the price is OK).But sold a car with very little time investment. Because they did what we wanted and didn't try to sell us something we didnt want/mess with us.

Furthermore..... This salesperson let us walk out of there without signing on the line, without trying to call in their sales manager to see if they could get us a better price if we signed right now... without telling us we had been wasting their time if we weren't prepared to buy right this fucking minute. She knew we were going to buy but would walk if faced with a "sign now or lose the deal" (yes, there is no deal, there's absolutely no need to sign now, but they still try that shit anyway.....) But she is the first dealer to ever be cool with us sayig "we never sign anything on the spot, we need to go haome, take 24 hours and discuss..." And she's getting a sale.

Yes, it was a she. Car Sales Places, you'd do so much better hiring more women salespeople. When i was in sales (not cars) as a student, the women always earned more comission than the guys. They get people. I'm not sating hie all women. But more of them.

It's not the car of anyone's dreams, but it's the car of our reality and if it does what the Windstar did, it will have done it's job.

The only downer is the trade-in they offered for the Windstar. we knew it would be low, but it's laughable -a third of what sales-lady said when beest talked to her before, even though he was honest about it's condition. That said, there's currently a rebate that make it worth it to accept it. If we sold it privately, we might be able to get a few hundred more, but -given the stress of car-buying, it's worth that to us not to have to deal with the stress of car-selling.

Oh and......


LJ rocks! Beyond advice in this thread. We're thinking of commisioning a wire and styrofoam statue......

;)

Thanks, cock.

Boink!

Jim,
it's probably a bit premature to ask this, but we're going to test drive this car this morning. After looking at about 75 cars online, this is the one that is most promising.

2001 Camry

It's older than I wanted. 2001, but it has very low miles. One owner. No accidents. It's a model I want with features I want. Although leather seats would have been nice.

We'll test drive it, and then if we like it, take it to our mechanic to check over.

So (and this is where I'm getting ahead of myself), what is a reasonable offer for us to make? It's being sold by a dealership, not a used car place. It's been on their lot since 8/29. They are asking $7.500.

NADA trade value is $6188, retail is $8288.

So, you're not getting hurt at $7500. the car fax is clean, one owner, no accidents....

looks clean.

Doesn't hurt to ask them to go lower, though. I'd open them up at $6000, go as high as $6800 and then get up to leave. maybe go have lunch if they let you leave. if they let you leave, you can kind of feel good that they are all in. if they say yes to your first offer..... oops!

are you trading anything?

monster;831956 wrote:

Oh and......


LJ rocks! Beyond advice in this thread. We're thinking of commisioning a wire and styrofoam statue......

;)

Thanks, cock.

so, any news on the minivan front?

jimhelm;832102 wrote:

NADA trade value is $6188, retail is $8288.

So, you're not getting hurt at $7500. the car fax is clean, one owner, no accidents....

looks clean.

Doesn't hurt to ask them to go lower, though. I'd open them up at $6000, go as high as $6800 and then get up to leave. maybe go have lunch if they let you leave. if they let you leave, you can kind of feel good that they are all in. if they say yes to your first offer..... oops!

are you trading anything?

Not trading anything. We'll just write a check.

So we did the test drive, and it passed our test. We like it. Our mechanic has it now. I hope he finds nothing.

Some additional information:
The sticker in the window says the price is $10,221.
(But the ad online says $7500)

When we went to the dealership, the lot was so full, we had to park in front of a competing dealership and walk past their car inventory to get to this dealership to try the car.

They gave the car to us overnight. We'll take the kids driving tonight.

cool! treat it like a rented mule.

look in the spare tire well to make sure there's no rust. your mechanic will check the undercarriage, seals, CV boots, struts, etc. A car that old with one owner says 'little old lady' . I hope it passes the tests. looks like a nice car. pre-congrats.

Mechanic said it was good.

Brakes are at about 25% and will need new pads and turn the rotors in a few thousand miles. Will pass inspection though.
The spare is flat, but looks brand new (full sized!)
Passenger wiper blade needs to be replaced.
Screw in rear tire tread. Probably can be plugged.

Nothing major wrong.

It's sitting in our driveway right now. Sneaky salesman. Letting us take it home so we'll grow to love it.

So do you want to come down and negotiate for us tomorrow morning? It's totally out of both of our personalities.

Oh, one thing I forgot to mention is that the radio stations were preset to 1-NPR 2- Classical 3-Classical 4-Talk 5-Oldies (80's music) and 6-another 80's station. Would the salesmen go through the trouble of presetting the stations to make it seem like an old lady had this car?

There were two Hershey Kisses under the jack, and some spilled clean kitty litter. I wonder if that was for traction, or spilled groceries.

Our daughter is unimpressed with the car. She liked the minivan.

glatt wrote:

It's sitting in our driveway right now. Sneaky salesman. Letting us take it home so we'll grow to love it.

isn't that called the "pet shop close"?

glatt;832117 wrote:

Mechanic said it was good.

Brakes are at about 25% and will need new pads and turn the rotors in a few thousand miles. Will pass inspection though.
The spare is flat, but looks brand new (full sized!)
Passenger wiper blade needs to be replaced.
Screw in rear tire tread. Probably can be plugged.

Nothing major wrong.

It's sitting in our driveway right now. Sneaky salesman. Letting us take it home so we'll grow to love it.

So do you want to come down and negotiate for us tomorrow morning? It's totally out of both of our personalities.

Oh, one thing I forgot to mention is that the radio stations were preset to 1-NPR 2- Classical 3-Classical 4-Talk 5-Oldies (80's music) and 6-another 80's station. [COLOR="Blue"]Would the salesmen go through the trouble of presetting the stations to make it seem like an old lady had this car?[/COLOR]

There were two Hershey Kisses under the jack, and some spilled clean kitty litter. I wonder if that was for traction, or spilled groceries.

Our daughter is unimpressed with the car. She liked the minivan.

[COLOR="Blue"]no, but that's a really good idea![/COLOR]

kitty litter might have been from her 37 cats! is there any pet smell or mildew noticeable?


and, it's ok if you don't negotiate. $7500 is a fair price. There is a certain amount of peer pressure that people apply when they hear that someone bought a car. and a good bit of monday morning quarterbacking goes on too.

If you like the car, buy it. maybe you can use the mechanical issues as negotiating chips. that may be more comfortable for you. the car has to have a working spare to pass inspection. demand a new full spare, a fixed or replaced tire where the screw is, and 2 new wiper blades.

BigV;832120 wrote:

isn't that called the "pet shop close"?

when there is a trade involved, it's called 'de-horsing' them.

and yes, it's an effective tactic. and it's working right now. glatt is taking mental ownership, or at the very least, he's visualizing it. his neighbors will see it, he has told his friends about it.... these people would be disappointed if he gave it back. 75% of the time, it works every time.

unless there is something really really wrong about the car.

There is a little pet hair here and there in the car, but absolutely no smell of pet, no mildew, and no stains. We showed up unannounced and jumped into the car and closed the doors right away so it wouldn't have a chance to air out. It didn't smell bad at all. And after testing out the windows, we drove around with the windows closed and recirculating the air. No odors.

Most places suggested making appointments, and I could imagine the salesmen opening all the windows of the car you planned to drive and fanning it out to get rid of any smell, so I wanted to always show up unannounced. I've got a very sensitive nose, and it passed muster with me.

awesome!

I hope it serves you well!

glatt;832117 wrote:

.

So do you want to come down and negotiate for us tomorrow morning? It's totally out of both of our personalities.
.

That's our problem too.

Minivan is at the dealer, beest away for the weekend so we'll drive it and do the deal Monday assuming all is well.

I offered $6500.

They countered with my choice of $6900 As Is, or the full $7500 and they fix all my complaints, including the brakes.

I went with the $6900 because I don't want to make another trip down there to pick the car up after the work is done. It's only 10 miles away, but traffic there is a nightmare. It's about an hour's drive.

They filled the spare with air and topped off the gas tank. With tax, tags, etc. it came to around $7400.

Thanks for all your help, Jim! I'm going to hit the Cellar tip jar in your name.

We've got a second car now, with about half the mileage of our first car. Sweet! Already, the kids are asking if it can be our designated road trip car. More spacious and comfy.

jimhelm;832133 wrote:

75% of the time, it works every time.

:lol2:

Glatt, I know every time you go somewhere you'll take the car that gets twice the mileage if possible. But instead of thinking half or twice the mileage, work out some numbers.
After you've determined what kind of mileage you're actually getting, figure what the difference between them is in dollars for say, 10 miles, 50 miles, 100 miles. It may not be as big as you think.

There has been an ongoing back and forth on my truck forum. Two engines, the smaller 300hp uses regular gas, the larger 400hp uses premium. These guys will argue the advantage of one or the other ad infinitum.

So I figured a difference between the regular and premium seems to hold at about 25 cents, and both engines are averaging about 20 mpg (yeah, same mileage), so the bottom line for the larger engine is about $12.50 for a thousand fucking miles. They still argue. :lol:

Of course these numbers don't pertain to you, but looking at the money puts it in a different perspective.

I feel the same way about gas prices. Drives me crazy when people obsess over a few cents here and there in gas, which adds up to effectively nothing in the long-term, yet can't break themselves of a weekly movie rental or pizza delivery habit that costs 30 times that.

glatt;832219 wrote:

We've got a second car now, with about half the mileage of our first car. Sweet! Already, the kids are asking if it can be our designated road trip car. More spacious and comfy.

xoxoxoBruce;832225 wrote:

:lol2:

Glatt, I know every time you go somewhere you'll take the car that gets twice the mileage if possible. But instead of thinking half or twice the mileage, work out some numbers.

I realize I used the wrong word in my post. I said "mileage" but what I meant was the miles on the odometer. I meant to say I'm happy we got a car with really low miles for its age and price.

It's true that the Camry isn't as fuel efficient as the Prizm, but it's not that bad at all. I'm happy with it. It's better than most cars out there. And we'll definitely pay attention to the fuel efficiency for at least the first several tanks. I want to get to know this car. Already, it's the car closest to the street and is getting the most use.

A winnar is you.

Conglattulations!

glatt;832279 wrote:

I realize I used the wrong word in my post. I said "mileage" but what I meant was the miles on the odometer.

Nevermind. :blush:

I never posted a picture. This is what our driveway looks like now. The Geo Prizm is parked in and the "new" Camry is getting all the use now.

:)
[ATTACH]40900[/ATTACH]

shiny!

Let the name-guessing commence. :D

[ATTACH]40914[/ATTACH]

SPARTACUS!

nope. but that's good..... We could change it......

oh wait, no, I'm Spartacus.

A friend in high school named his bright red car Ruby. But you said it was a "he," so that can't be right...

Ooh, I'm gonna guess the Scarlet Pimpernel.

Old Blue?

Red Rover

Ruby?

A Red Renault 5 in the UK in the late 80s was like a white F150 or Silver Odyssey in the US today.

So mine was called clit, because it was red every cunt had one.....

and no to all so far....

Brits may have an advantage -shame they're all asleep right now....

Red rover red rover
Send monster right over

monster;832590 wrote:

Brits may have an advantage -shame they're all asleep right now....

Oh, I'm sure I'm wrong then. :)

It's a very nice automobile!

Ginger

ha! ...no

Rodney.

I just think it looks like a Rodney.

no.

It now has two names :rolleyes:

Dodgy?

Would have been if Hector had named it :lol:

(not very imaginative in the pet and stuffed toy naming department, that one)

Chitty chitty bang bang?

Big Ben?

Carrie Van Nozzlestroff?

The Red Menace?

Strawberry Fields?

Marcus Welby, MD?

The middle one is warm.

Red Rover?

Or the phantom menace. ;)

Roger the Dodger (From the Brit kids Comic The Beano, home of the British Dennis the Menace)

or

Jammie Dodger (yummy Brit biscuit with red jammy bit)

And I'm also very tempted to add black stripes to make it a menace car -still called roger the dodger (Dennis the Menace in the Beano wears red and black stripes -not sure if your blonde Dennis does....)

Another car buying question.

We bought our Camry about 3 years ago, as detailed in this thread, and it's had an extremely intermittent rough idle/stalling problem for the last two years or so. I've tried different things to fix it, but haven't been able to figure out the problem. So while I love the car in many ways, I also fucking hate the thing. Bottom line is I don't trust it and every road trip is stressful, even when I get to my destination just fine.

So that brings me to my question. Our next door neighbor is literally a little old lady who drives very seldom. She recently made the transition to a nursing home, and her children said they will be selling her car soon.

It's a 2009 Honda Accord (VIN 1HGCP26829AU12666)
With only 8k miles on it! Looks like leather seats, but I'm not sure. Needs new tires (admitted to us offhand by her adult child who backed into a curb and had to replace one of them and was told by the shop that it needed all new tires.)

She's probably never taken it on the highway. So it's had a ton of local, short trips at very slow speed. (not ideal) It looks like it's in great condition, except it has half a dozen small scuffs all around the perimeter (consistent with a little old lady having trouble in a parking lot.) I don't know if she's changed the oil in those 5 years. She has slowed down physically in the last 2 years or so, so it's very possible that the oil hasn't been changed in around 2 years/2,000 miles.

I haven't expressed interest in it yet to the potential sellers, but we have a good relationship with them, and I'm sure they would sell it to us if we showed interest.

We haven't even test driven it, so I don't even know if we like it. And of course we would ask for any maintenance records and have a mechanic take a look at it. Actually, the mechanic we would use is also her mechanic, so they would have a record of it.

So the question is, should we buy this car, and if so, what should we offer? We want to offer a fair price.

2009 Hondas like this go for about $10K on cars.com, but they have 90K miles.

On NADA, they give this information:
[ATTACH]51785[/ATTACH]

Car values are opinions. That's a rare age/mileage combo, so it will be difficult to find comparable vehicles that have sold at auction. The mileage add on NADA is WAY too high. Can you get the VIN?

VIN is 1HGCP26829AU12666

check that. usually the last 6 will be numeric ( except ford for some reason)

comes back invalid VIN

it seems to work here?

Not the greatest picture, I'll admit, but the glare on my phone screen made it hard to see what I was doing.
[ATTACH]51793[/ATTACH]

1HGCP26829A072666

anyway: I put a 2 in and it worked. The last 6 are only for serial identification. The rest of the characters mean things. Like 1 is Built in US, H is Honda, etc. the 10th digit is year of model.

This may help:

[ATTACH]51794[/ATTACH]

That's what cars have actually sold in this region. The highlighted one is closest, but the condition sounds better than what you describe. I might go 12k for the car if they want to sell it.

[ATTACH]51795[/ATTACH]

I can try for a better picture tonight or tomorrow. I cut through their property and walk right next to the car twice a day.

lumberjim;929472 wrote:

That's what cars have actually sold in this region. The highlighted one is closest, but the condition sounds better than what you describe. I might go 12k for the car if they want to sell it.

Awesome! Thank you.

It looks like it's in good shape other than 4-5 scuff marks, each about the size of a human hand, scattered around the lower part of the car on pretty much every side.

yabbut, if the tires are dry rotted, that's $500 for a new set.... They're good dependable cars, Accords. A little loud inside compared to your camry and the altima, and the interior quality is usually not as good... But they just keep running.

Should I be concerned at all about the mostly short local trips and probably no highway miles? Or with only 8,000 miles, is that not enough time for carbon deposits to have gotten built up in the engine and not get burned off?

you should drive it. You say you share a mechanic? if hew knows it's for sale, he might bid you up, so you may want to take it elsewhere for an inspection. 8000 miles is just breaking in, but gas and oil get gunky when they get old... so if you do buy it, I'd recommend fuel injection cleaner and change oil, trans fluid and coolant on day one.

I'll buy it if you don't ;)

If this works out, all those days of shoveling her driveway for her will pay off.

We bought the car last night!

Well, sort of. We test drove it and liked it and agreed on a price and they signed the title over to us and gave us the title.

The car is still in their driveway until tomorrow, and they still have the keys, and we haven't given them a check yet. But my wife is heading over to the DMV today to get new tags and a new title and to get it registered. We'll finalize everything tomorrow after the one sister uses it to drop the other off at the airport. Hope they don't get in an accident on this one limbo day.

They gave us the "good neighbor discount" and we agreed on a $10k price. I'm really pleased with that. I think a normal private party sale between strangers would have been closer to $14k.

It smells new inside! And not like a masking cleanser sort of smell. It really smells new. Super clean inside, and they didn't even clean it for us. It's never been dirty. A few scuffs on the outside, and it needs new tires, but is otherwise great. At that price and with that mileage, I didn't take it to a mechanic. It drove well.

We finished off the night visiting with them and talking about their mom and our memories of her. It was nice. Hugged each other when we left. The best car buying experience I've ever had.

It's got a stiffer ride than the Camry and a slightly larger turning radius, which I didn't think was possible. So it will take a little adjusting to the new driving feel, but it really feels like a brand new car!

So once it's in our driveway and all legal, we'll take our 2001 Camry over to Carmax and unload it on them. Probably won't get too much, but we don't need 3 cars and it's just too unreliable. I just hope the intermittent problem doesn't show up when they test drive it.

Congratulations!

But for a few grand more you could have hugged Jim. :haha:

Awesome, glatt. Enjoy it!

Thanks all!

Congrats!

Last Tuesday I took my car for an oil change and a check up, mechanic called me back and told me I had a blown head gasket.
After driving a bunch of different cars and looking at the prices new vs used, I consulted with Jim and a couple others who know stuff about cars.
After 5 Nissans in a row, I bought a '15 Civic EX. Love this car. First new "new car" for me in 25 years.

Awesome!

Congrats, classic!

Congrats!!!

With that car, you're good to go for the next 25 years.

Awesome Classic. Everyone should own a brand new car at least once in their life.

Thanks all. Fargon asked in another thread, so I posted a pic there.

Just got back from a road trip up to Scranton area. New car kicks ass. Wants to go fast. Is stable at speed.

nice!

You boys gonna race?

Nah, my racing days are over. This car has a CVT.

I don't know what CVT means from a driver's point of view.

My car has some sort of stability control where if you try to do some stupid shit at high speed it corrects your input. I haven't tried doing any stupid shit at high speed, so I don't know how well it works.

And instead of just 2 air bags, it has 6! I know this is nothing special these days, but it's cool anyway.

Oh, and XM radio is good, but cuts out more than I like. Even some overhead highway signs make it cut out. My wife digs it though, so we'll probably subscribe after the two month free trial is over.

In theory six airbags should be more protection, if they work properly, when you need them. The down side is they're $1000 apiece if they get set off accidently or stolen. Of course it's better to have them than not, but all these bells and whistles come at a price.

The stability control means there is a complicated system of sensors and computers talking to each other and making decisions whether to override your inputs or not. It's doing this while living in a more hostile environment than most electronic systems ever see. Sooner or later, hopefully much later, some part of the system will fail, usually in a fail safe mode. But trouble shooting those systems is difficult and expensive, partly because the software is proprietary and secret. Sure it can be decoded by hackers, but it can't be used in unlicensed diagnostic equipment, putting you at the mercy of the manufacturer(dealer).

Not to cast aspersions on your new car, just a general observation on how complicated they have gotten and the costs. There's no choice either, it applies to every car made these days. Somebody always pipes up, I've got seven bazillion miles on my fluffmobile and never had a lick of trouble. Sure, but the people who have aren't saying anything.

I have an admittedly have a jaundiced eye because the circles I travel in, and publications I read, are full of stories about the exceptions like $2800 Audi head gaskets, $1000 computers (at least a dozen in most cars), and a car totaled by the insurance company because the seats were stolen and it would cost too much to replace them.

I tend to agree with you on all points.

My wife had been somewhat unhappy with our old cars for a while and kept talking about buying a brand new one and taking out a loan to pay for it. When this almost new car became available, I saw a way to scratch that new car itch for a fraction of the cost. And I'm digging this car too.

We're gonna sell our Camry as soon as we get around to it. And keep our '95 Prizm. It needs some work though. Probably needs more work than it is worth, but I love that car and think it would be smart to keep it going. And the needing more work than it is worth is simply because it's not worth much of anything at all. It needs a new muffler and a paint job. And I'd like to get better tires for it. Could probably use some struts too. It creaks and groans going over speed humps. And it's got a slight mildew smell inside. I should figure out how to address that.

Putting some money in a car you like, vs spending your children's education, plus interest, on a new one? I agree with your choice. However I question the paint job. Since this will be the "second car", so to speak, having primer spots, matte looking paint, and visible duct tape, makes the intimidation factor in an urban environment most valuable. :haha:

Oh wait, this is for the girl to drive isn't it. [SIZE="1"]nevermind[/SIZE]

xoxoxoBruce;932857 wrote:

<snip>
Oh wait, this is for the girl to drive isn't it. [SIZE="1"]nevermind[/SIZE]

Easy solution: Pink primer

My scooter has a CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission).

They work pretty well on small hp applications.

I'm getting ready to sell my cousin's 2012 Ford Focus.

Looking for advice in how to go about selling it.

First of all, he has been in one or two accidents with it, and had it repaired through insurance at legitimate body shops that would report that shit to Carfax. I don't know the severity of those accidents, but don't see any visible problems with the car. It looks pretty good, but has a toothpaste or something stain on the passenger seat. I should try to clean that.

The car currently doesn't run. Two issues: He had been trying to start it and wasn't able to because the key would turn in the ignition without the starter even engaging, and instead the alarm would go off. Some Ford bullshit electrical problem. And secondly, I disconnected the battery to spare the neighbors the alarm sound every time he tried this, and also to ensure he would never be able to get the car started because he was a menace on the road.

So it needs a tow to the dealership to get those two things fixed. Battery is easy, but I figure it should wait until it's at the dealer so it won't be honking up the neighborhood.

On the plus side, it should have low miles (Not sure because the battery is disconnected and I can't read the odometer.) And he had purchased the extended service plan, and it has a couple years left on that plan, and the plan will transfer to the new owner.

My wife contacted the dealer and some guy responded that he wanted the VIN and some pictures so he could make us an offer. I appreciate her calling the dealer, but I don't know if he's a repair guy or a salesman.

Is it foolish to talk to a salesman before the car is even running?

Should I get it repaired and then try to sell it, or should I just deal with this salesman and sell it as is?

Is a car automatically considered "rough" even if it looks OK but was in a previous accident?

aaaaaaand..... we're at it again. We need a third car. Beest has found one he likes. inventory says it exists.... dealers say #bullshitbullshitbullshithowaboutthisusedoneweredesperatetooffloadinsteaditsamuchbetterdealhonestlybullshitbullshit

sigh

Tell them no, you want what you want and you'll have to buy it online. That should bring them around.

Wanna buy a Ford Focus?

Not that one!

Glatt, get the repairs done under warranty first. Dealers will give you wholesale, but it's quick.

Take it to a different ford dealer and get a buy figure. I can get you the auction value if you get me the info. I'll need the actual miles and options. So once it's fixed give me a call.

I reckon if there was a Cellar currency (?the monkey, the Deadhobo, the tw....?) The image of sir Jim of Lumber would be on one of the bills. The biggest one, of course, to fit that fivehead on.

I'll settle for nothing less than the $50.

UT should be on the 100. Founder

Bruce on the single.
Most in circulation

Tw on the 2 because duh

I'll leave some for you to do ...

buying another car to satisfy the ever growing number of drivers in the family, I'm zeroing in on a Mazda 3 (isport, manua hatchback,with preferred package, in red)
zoom zoom


So questions, mostly for Jim I guess:
Through AAA you can get a certified true car value, 8% below msrp on mazdas ( different on different vehicles), no negotiating, they are contracted to this price. There is also 0% financing on 60 months, and $1000 from the manufacturer.
Is this just a scheme, could we try and get better than this?
We're not intending to put any money down, we can use that cash for other things, but would that help in some way besides lowering the price and payments.

We don't have a trade-in since we are expanding our garage, it's been a devil of a job getting a car at all since nobody stocks manuals. The hatchback mazdas sell as soon as they come in, so the dealer isn't hurting to shift them, we are probably going to have to order.

also, I made my initial contacts ( I've looked at Subaru and Honda too) through websites, I'm guessing they give internet sales to the noobs/junior sales people from the ones I have encountered.
Are customers who approach through the internet more troublesome/flaky/more work ?

I read salesmen didn't like them because they were more informed and sometimes misinformed but convinced they're right be cause they read/misread it on the internet.
Red cars have higher resale value, more accidents, gather more tickets, and induce more road rage in others. There a numerous studies to back this up so don't let Monster drive this one. :bolt:

TrueCar&#8482; is a very good way to get a low price without spending days working dealers against each other. We hate it, but you have to do it or you won't get any leads. The trade is where we try to make up for it. You have no trade. You may not be able to get the 0% AND the rebate... but you might... Nissan has 0% AND $500 on some cars... or $500 AND $2000... You could find that out over the phone before you go.

There's hardly any mark up on new cars. Get GAP, but don't pay more than $500 for it. Extended warranty is your call, just be sure you get a fair price on that too. I'd try to stay under $400 per year of additional coverage as a rule. ( < $1200 for a 6 year)

lumberjim;960352 wrote:

TrueCar&#8482; is a very good way to get a low price without spending days working dealers against each other. We hate it, but you have to do it or you won't get any leads. The trade is where we try to make up for it. You have no trade. You may not be able to get the 0% AND the rebate... but you might... Nissan has 0% AND $500 on some cars... or $500 AND $2000... You could find that out over the phone before you go.

There's hardly any mark up on new cars. Get GAP, but don't pay more than $500 for it. Extended warranty is your call, just be sure you get a fair price on that too. I'd try to stay under $400 per year of additional coverage as a rule. ( < $1200 for a 6 year)

Thanks Jim, solid info, I've been in and done test drives and talked to the sales person I think the incentives are a lock.
I talked to my insurance guy about GAP, said much the same as you. Subaru tried to add in GAP at $800 I think, and extra coating paint protection, and extra upholstery protection, and prepaid servicing, no actual undercoating though.

True car has steered me to contact certain dealers rather than others, i have lot's of choice in a big metropolitan area, so I guess it is working for them in that way.

Good luck, and pics or it never happened!