God, defined.
In order to make future debates and arguments about god more meaningful, please post your definitions of god here for easy reference.
I define god as being non-definable, despite that, itself, being a definition. Essentially any attempt at defining god, limits god and therefore misses what god is.
cf:
"The Tao that can be spoken of is not the eternal Tao."
-- Lao Tzu Tao Teh Ching, Ch. 1
"The moment you open your mouth, (to speak of the Dharma) you are thousands of miles away from it."
--Zen maxim
so you are saying not to bother with this thread then?
•spoken in to my phone
No, not everyone shares my definition. cock.
In order to make future debates and arguments about god more meaningful, please post your definitions of god here for easy reference.
God is splunge.
No, not everyone shares my definition. cock.
God is a Cock. so is your face.
God is like a clover. little, green and split 3 ways.
When you use the term, 'God' you push me toward the Christian definition.
The name of god carries too many connotations. In some ways, God is inside us... the being within that observes us. The holy spirit. That which is left in crisis situations, when the internal dialogue ceases. The calm at the end of our panic, the center of us. It is also the ultimate complexity toward which we strive. The Father. And then it is the unconditional love of our fellow man, the forgiveness and acceptance, the surrender to reality. The Son.
I've heard many different ways of describing or defining God. I typically reject any definition that creates a sentient consciousness, though. The Force, now... that I can kind of groove to.
I prefer to call the spirit that dwells within and without the Universe.
Man created "god" in his image and everything. Man = god God=man
the god of the bible? A nut job of truly violent proclivities. Also, a jerk.
The spirit is what matters, not the Logos, not the image, not the 'god'
I've become completely radicalized due to reading Barbara G. Walker.
I define god as being non-definable, despite that, itself, being a definition. Essentially any attempt at defining god, limits god and therefore misses what god is.
cf:
"The Tao that can be spoken of is not the eternal Tao."
-- Lao Tzu Tao Teh Ching, Ch. 1
"The moment you open your mouth, (to speak of the Dharma) you are thousands of miles away from it."
--Zen maxim
To me, stuff like this is the result of someone too steeped or otherwise invested in religion to give up on the idea, but realizing that any attempt to define it properly results in absurdity, they create a pseudo-virtue out of lack of knowledge.
To me, stuff like this is the result of someone too steeped or otherwise invested in religion to give up on the idea, but realizing that any attempt to define it properly results in absurdity, they create a pseudo-virtue out of lack of knowledge.
Oh, nicely put HM!
I define God as: the 'something' beyond which people choose to believe in because they deem the alternative lack of 'something' beyond too cold to contemplate. I also define it as: a fictional entity to which is wrongly ascribed the role of creator.
Thread title should be changed to "God, Denied".
God is the Original Creator of Heaven and Earth. The Holy Bible is where we should draw our conclusions as to better understand him. Also, remember, that it is He who defines Us, not Us who defines Him.
John3:16
You will get in a lot of trouble using that ' should' word so much.
•spoken in to my phone
Man created "god" in his image and everything. Man = god God=man
the god of the bible? A nut job of truly violent proclivities. Also, a jerk.
The spirit is what matters, not the Logos, not the image, not the 'god'
Well said.
God is the Original Creator of Heaven and Earth. The Holy Bible is where we should draw our conclusions as to better understand him. Also, remember, that it is He who defines Us, not Us who defines Him.
Then how do you explain the fact that every religion on earth has their own view of God?
We are not created in God's image, God is created in
our image; and the bible (IMO) is not to be taken literally.
fixed it.. :)
I wasn't talking about your grammar, jb. When you tell me I SHOULD do this or that, you are resisting reality. This will only cause you pain.
The reality is that most of us follow our own compass with regards to god and religion. I accept your right to base your beliefs on the Christian Bible. Please respect my right not to.
•spoken in to my phone
I like to imagine what would happen if we were all given instantaneous enlightenment, suddenly possessing a complete understanding of all the things that we do not and cannot possibly comprehend with our tiny human brains... I think that, in that moment, the entire population would point and yell with satisfaction:
First half: "Ha! Finally we see God's face! God is the completeness, as we have always said. Now those unbelievers have to admit that there is a God, because here he is!"
Second half: "Ha! Finally there are no mysteries left! Everything has a scientific explanation, as we have always said. Now those religious crackpots have to admit that there is no God, because we've pulled back the curtain and seen all there is to see."
God is:
***...an elementary particle in the standard model, having profound importance
because it proves the existence of the Higgs field which is the simplest explanation for the
origin of the symmetry-breaking mechanism by which elementary particles acquire mass.
The explanation is that a field exists that has non-zero strength everywhere
—even in otherwise empty space—and that particles acquire mass by interacting with this Higgs field.
Since this theory is true, a matching particle—the smallest possible excitation of the Higgs field
— also exists and is detectable, providing a crucial test of the theory.
Consequently, it has been the target of a long search.
.
*** This quote has been modified for length, readability, and the final truth. ;)
Then how do you explain the fact that every religion on earth has their own view of God?
Residing on a different side of Globe; the moon and sun actually make it hotter and colder depending on where you are geographically located, but just because you live on the east coast of the united states dose not mean you are from the land of the rising sun. The Sun governs the day and the moon governs the night. It's a given fact that there is one sun and one moon but the way we view them is different. Just like there is one God. However, even the demons believe there is one God and shutter. Not all religions worship the same God there fore not all are right.
We are not created in God's image, God is created in our image; and the bible (IMO) is not to be taken literally
.
If this is true then the God of America is Mickey Mouse. The Bible even says there are other Gods.. there called Idols, and the Bible predicts Desastor for worshiping them..
ohboy.
The only 'right' religion is the one based in your own particular head. Thus, man made god, not the other way 'round.
The only 'right' religion is the one based in your own particular head. Thus, man made god, not the other way 'round.
I totally disagree. Which Came first the chicken or the egg.. personally I believe that music came first and God is the TRUE harmony that keeps the universe in check. And Jesus is the Words to Gods songs....
I think Jesus improvises his songs.
Take Choppin' Broccoli for example.
flint had a beautiful metaphor about how Jesus chops up the broccoli of our sin and crams it down the disposal of god's love. Or something like that.
Also, does Jesus scat? Coz that would be kewl.
Which Came first the chicken or the egg.
Darwin says the egg.
So the garden of Eden was a bunch of egg trees?? did Adam and Eve Have belly buttons??
God, where do you people find the energy to have such pointless discussions!!???
God is.
That's all I have to say about that.
Run Forrest, Run!
My thoughts exactly.
Egg trees?
No, evolution.
The chicken must have come out of an egg but if it was the first chicken then something other than a chicken, if only slightly so (a protochicken if you like), must have laid that egg.
The adam and eve story is just a bullshit re-working of older, better stories.
Learn some history JBK.
The adam and eve story is just a bullshit re-working of older, better stories.
Like what? [COLOR="silver"]I'm not trying to be snippy. I really wanna know.[/COLOR]
In Christian Theology, God is traditionally defined as the most perfect possible being, thus being omniscient, omnipotent and wholly benevolent.
This lays the foundations for the ontological argument for the existence of God, which is that, if a being already had these other perfections, existing would make it even more perfect, and since it is by definition maximally perfect, it must exist.
Modern philosophers generally regard this as a load of old dingo's kidneys*, partly because existence is considered a predicate and not a property, but mostly because it seems like cheating to define something into existence.
This definition also runs into serious troubles with the Problem of Evil. Why would an all-knowing, all-powerful, all good God allow unnecessary suffering to exist?
So, I can't tell you how to define God, but I can tell you one definition which does not work.
So I'll just stick with "the imaginary friend in many shared make-believe games".
*Although it has been discovered that St Anselm's Ontological argument for the existence of god can be sung to the tune of Waltzing Matilda.
God is a construct of man, in his attempt to explain that which he does not understand, and has become a crutch for those who do not accept responsibility for themselves.
God is a construct of man, in his attempt to explain that which he does not understand, and has become a crutch for those who do not accept responsibility for themselves.
and truly the gospel of spex is a plank in all of our eyes..
God equals want: when mankind no longer wants for anything, it will have found God.
[COLOR="SlateGray"](This paradox is the only definition worthy of being called God, IMH0.)[/COLOR]
you don't find him he finds you and if what you say is true, about not wanting anything, then God has most definitively found me...
you don't find him he finds you ...
You don't speak everyone and you certainly don't speak for God you bible thumping idiot. You're a liar and a fraud.
You don't speak everyone and you certainly don't speak for God you bible thumping idiot. You're a liar and a fraud.
wow that's a really negative attitude.. let all men be liars and let God be true.. I'll be the first to admit that I have told lies but a fraud no. and the things I've lied about are either a. marks of a retrospective failing society, or b. just really stupid stuff...
are you angry with me cause this statement sounds and feels very demeaning... please elaborate with a, if you would "nicer" tone...
JB, why do you believe in God? Serious question.
Coming from someone who dose not believe it's kinda of like asking what do you perfer pepsi or coke?? So I say I perfer Crisp Orange soda because it's caffeine free. Caffeine gives me a "hi" that makes me go nuts and I don't like to go nuts or at-least not when I'm trying to work. So what I'm saying is that GOD gives me a hi that no other "thing" can compete with. It's called being HI ON LIFE.
Stories that pre-date genesis and are better reading and, frankly, more plausible IMHO:
The Mesopotamian myths of Enuma Elish and Atra-Hasis.
The patriarchs, jealous of woman's ability to give life, had MAN give birth to woman (Eve born from Adam's rib) and then blamed her for every evil thing they could think of. WHY were we thrown out of Paradise? Eve. Why must men toil for food? Eve. Why must women bear children in great pain? Eve. Why must Muslim women cover their entire selves up? Because they, as women, are so completely lustfully sinful that if a man even LOOKS upon a woman she is pretty much asking for a gang-rape. Nice scapegoating that. Jewish men say prayers thanking god they were not born a woman.
Buncha bologna. I try very hard to understand Christians - I like their Christ but I don't think they know who Christ is/was or much of what he said (which wasn't very much, really)
All three patriarchal religions are destructive, exclusive, war-loving and full of sinful crap.
Have you ever seen that movie days of thunder??? He runs around the track a couple times and then the trainer shows him the wheels that are all torn up and says this is how we do it YOUR way... then he shows him the tires that are in better shape and says this is how we do it MY way... Eve/Old Testament =Mans way Mary/New Testament =Gods way.
Mary was a watered down, powerless version of Isis.
With your logic, if Mary is the New Testament = God's way then all women should just become spontaneously pregnant without having all that messy, sinful, evil sex! God's way is just to send some freaking messenger (he couldn't be bothered to tell her himself) to a teenager that she's going to have a baby! So - YAY!
Not many children born that way I'll wager. Your god is a weird-o.
No, I'm the weirdo.. My God sees past that...
You're a shit for brains fraud who thinks he can use God and the bible to exercise control over what people here should or should not believe to compensate for the lack of control you have over your own life. You're a coward for doing it in a venue that's not face to face. I stated an opinion, clearly labeled "IMHO", and you contradicted it without any supporting evidence other than that you say so. You plainly disrespected my entitlement to hold my opinion and now you ask that I address you in a "nicer" tone. You sniveling puke. You want to be treated with respect? Get you're head out of your HOLY REAR and start respecting other peoples' rights to hold their opinions. It's not just what you say to others, it's
how you say it. I believe that's been brought to your attention a couple of times here now:
I wasn't talking about your grammar, jb. When you tell me I SHOULD do this or that, you are resisting reality. This will only cause you pain.
The reality is that most of us follow our own compass with regards to god and religion. I accept your right to base your beliefs on the Christian Bible. Please respect my right not to. ...
The Golden Rule is in effect.
well at-least I know your wrong// because I have absolutely interest in controlling anything.. If I did I wouldn't be concerned with saving your soul from the pit of hell it must be in... And if it is a "humble" opinion then why are you so quick to jump down my throat for challenging it...
Some people wear their religion on their sleeves, you wear it like a badge of authority to tell others how to act and what to think. You fancy yourself the thought control police in the name of God all in a vain attempt at redemption from your willful and woeful inadequacies. The fact is that you're an abomination before man and God for he who is loosed from earth shall be loosed from heaven and you're well on your way to eternal damnation. What a pitiful existence you lead knowing that everyone else can see right through you; yet, still compelled to tell your lies because you have to believe them yourself to stay sane. It's the power of Satan that compels you to deceive yourself and attempt to fool others. But others here are righteous and will defend against your intolerance of other people's opinions. You WILL learn to respect the rights of others to hold their own opinions, the power of Christ compels you ... the power of Christ compels you ... the power of Christ compels you.
... And if it is a "humble" opinion then why are you so quick to jump down my throat for challenging it...
I'm so good at being humble, I've been sent on a mission from God to teach you humility.
I have absolutely no Idea what to say except that I find this judgement you are passing has no ground to stand on and Is just a foolish attempt to be "mean" because you think your in some way better then me.
Opinions are like assholes everybody has one and yours stinks...
I have absolutely no Idea what to say ...
You generally have no idea about what you're saying. You're just too God damned egotistical to have learned when to keep your mouth shut punk.
Look pal if you are trying to start a fight I'll opt out, I'm already in a mental health program they take care of me, I come on the net to seek and distribute enlightenment because I can't work...and if you know anything at all about the holy spirit you know that it is he who teaches people what to say and I believe I have the holy spirit living in me...
Peace be with you brother.
I like to imagine what would happen if we were all given instantaneous enlightenment, suddenly possessing a complete understanding of all the things that we do not and cannot possibly comprehend with our tiny human brains... I think that, in that moment, the entire population would point and yell with satisfaction:
First half: "Ha! Finally we see God's face! God is the completeness, as we have always said. Now those unbelievers have to admit that there is a God, because here he is!"
Second half: "Ha! Finally there are no mysteries left! Everything has a scientific explanation, as we have always said. Now those religious crackpots have to admit that there is no God, because we've pulled back the curtain and seen all there is to see."
Yes, completely this. Joseph Campbell tells the story of the African trickster God who wears a hat that is blue on one side and red on the other. He walks down the road, followed by arguing mobs, each insistent of the hat color that they saw--each believing that the 'other side' is ignorant.
My definition of God begins with the understanding that 'intelligence' is simply an organization of matter/energy. At the largest scale, given all of the matter/energy that exists in the universe, or multiverse, the highest level of organization is God. This is something we are simply not designed to understand.
I believe that there is a 'God' of human experience. This is the organization of all matter/energy that is perceptible to--within the range of the sensory apparatus of--humans, i.e. having existed within the ecosystems where humans evolved. Certainly this is the highest God that would be useful to us. Incidentally, this God would be 'God' and 'the Devil' at the same time.
The lesser God, as segmented from the Devil, cannot resolve to a valid concept, because who does the separating? It's completely subjective, so this is not useful to anybody. This is guaranteed to cause arguments, hatred, war and bloodshed.
Best case scenario, we're--
all--talking apples and oranges.
I'm already in a mental health program.
I'm not tryin' to be a jackass here, but that
does explain a few things.
Anyway, I understand and respect your quest to find self-enlightenment and spiritual peace, but you can't expect us to have the same views as you.
I believe in God, but my God is a God ov my own creation.
I'm not tryin' to be a jackass here, but that does explain a few things.
Just please don't try to play doctor on me, this new show 'mob doctor' has me paranoid enough. I am sick of people telling me to take my meds when I take them religiously.
...and if you know anything at all about the holy spirit you know that it is he who teaches people what to say and I believe I have the holy spirit living in me...
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[SIZE="1"]Last edited by JBKlyde; 08-03-2012 at [COLOR="DarkOrange"]09:56 PM[/COLOR].[/SIZE]
The Holy Spirit teaches you what to say; but, it doesn't force you to say it. You still exercise free will. It's a shame that you lack the mental capacity to distinguish between what the Holy Spirit is teaching you and what your delusions are coaxing you to say. It's a sin that you choose to reject the advice of those who do know the difference and try to help you. The Holy Spirit has also taught them what to say, only they have the cognizance to say it right. They are the righteous. You OTOH give those who believe in God a bad reputation with your deluded approach to distributing enlightenment, an approach that manifests like something out of the dark ages.
well you know if you would just take the education approach and actually teach what you practice and practice what you preach the world might not seem so dark... Pope John Paul even said that I was "untaught" it's a failing society I'm just doing the best job i know how ... and I do have half an education in geothermal enginering.
it doesn't force you to say it
have you ever woken up praying... I had no control over that.. If you would just try to fall in love with Jesus and stop trying to make love to him you might get better results..
one thing I have always said to my self is that "sex" isn't worth it.. so I feel like we are just futilely having a meaning less talk, you'll always think I'm a lying fraud and I'll never buy what you have to say.. so lets just be friends and I'll paint my heart out while you make love to whoever...
The world isn't dark, it's just your presentation of God in it. All the education in the world won't make up for your lack of effective communication. You don't even try to win the hearts and minds of people over to God: you just try to browbeat them. The way you felt when I was calling you names is the way you make other people feel when you insist on telling them they're wrong instead of simply saying what you think is right and letting it go at that. If you can't raise your beliefs up without putting other people's beliefs down, your beliefs aren't worth diddlysquat.
Go through all of my other posts here in the Cellar and you'll find that I prefer to speak in an educated language and haven't used name calling except with you. You're so densely wrapped up in yourself and your own spiritual salvation that it became the default communication tool because you don't really listen to what others are saying until someone locks your heels.
Referring to God you said "you don't find him he finds you" and yet you say "I come on the net to seek and distribute enlightenment." If people can't find God, why do you need to enlighten them? If it's God that has to find people, why not let God enlighten them? He can do a hell of a lot better job of it than you can, after all, he's God and he can send the Holy Spirit. It seems that your only motive for "enlightening" people is getting brownie points with God just to save your own soul and that's why you don't care much how you go about doing it.
Between the aforementioned and the general rambling you do, you've pretty much disgraced yourself and discredited your God.
And you just proved my point.. there is nothing I possibly can do except let people see God through me these bbs are just so full of utter non scene that you have to spoon feed people to get them understand you. When your 'trolling off the back of a boat fishing for a tarpon the boat keeps moving and your lure just kind of gets tugged with the boat. If I hook a shark I throw it back if I hook a sword fish I get it stuffed and mounted. and I'm not concerned with propriety I have no one to impress.. Basically I'm just a F'ool for C'hrist and I don't feel a need to be anything more except maybe a prayer warrior and that's something I can do all by myself.. I call it ICS Independent Christian Soul.. and I' C' S'tars.
The only spoon feeding that may need to be done around here is your medications to you. Your meds don't seem to be working very well this morning. Are you sure you've been taking them as prescribed my friend. You did say that we could be friends and friends don't let friends post un-medicated.
i didn't sleep.. cause i stayed at my moms house this past week...
Have you been eating crow brother Klyde? You should know that crow can inhibit the effectiveness of some medications. It can also be hard to digest leaving you full of it.
ok no spoon but crow.. yuck..
Wow. I don't think I've ever seen Sexobon get so sharp with anybody.
JB: I know you think you are right. You have the power and love of Christ on your side after all. But not all of us see the world in the same way that you do. The words you use, the way you present faith, the way you encapsulate Jesus is, to many, offputting. It doesn't draw people to God, it doesn't even open their minds to him. All it does it push them further away from where you want them to be.
Thanks for answering my question about why you believe. Your analogy was quite good, i think, if I understood it correctly. Did you mean you prefer the flavour of life with God in it and dislike the flavour of life without God in it?
I personally don't have a vast preference for Coke or Pepsi. At a push I'd plump for Coke. Why? Because it is the most familiar of the two. As a kid coca-cola was more available than pepsi-cola, and the logo and colours of coke are more ever-present on my television screen than pepsi ever was.
I like Coke because I like the colour scheme, the packaging, the familiarity and the adorable polar bears. I like Coke because it signals Christmas and holidays. because of the blitzkrieg advertising at those times of year. I quite like the way it tastes too. But I also like the way Pepsi tastes. I just don't like the way it is packaged, and the ads never hit me the same.
Neither of them are as good as Dr Pepper, or a nice Dandelion and Burdoch though :P
Dana - I love it! God as a soda.
my goddess would be Mrs. Pibb (and you need to drink her through a Red Vine) :P
I've got my Orange Crush.
Did you mean you prefer the flavour of life with God in it and dislike the flavour of life without God in it?
correct
My local burger shop offers a deal with burger, chips and soft drink, cheaper than you can buy a burger and chips.
So I get the deal, and look through the fridge, and every can of drink is loaded with sugar and phosphoric acid and most have caffeine. :headshake No thanks.
It was amusing to watch the staff trying to grasp the concept that I was actually not taking a drink at all. ... but ... but ... it's free!
And their burgers were crap and the chips poorly cooked.
encapsulate, incapsulate [ɪnˈkæpsjʊˌleɪt]
vb
1. to enclose or be enclosed in or as if in a capsule
2. (tr) to sum up in a short or concise form; condense; abridge
encapsulation , incapsulation n
Is it a name-brand place or a mom and pop?
It doesn't draw people to God, it doesn't even open their minds to him. All it does it push them further away from where you want them to be.
If a greater way shall fall it will fall upon us all... there's a difference between evangelizing and fishing.. an evangelist is a trained professional like the pope.. I'm just trolling for souls.. I figure I have a 1 in 10 chance of "getting through" to someone, if I have to push away 9 atheist to get to one helpless soul then I will have done a good work.
Spreading news about a dead Palestinian to "save souls" = good work????
How does "getting to one helpless soul" work? If God is all-powerful he'd just wave his wand and make us all saved souls. but he doesn't. So he either can't or won't. and don't say "free will" because that's a cop out. And any god that needs constant praising and constant reminders of his awesomeness sounds suspiciously like Everyman.
And any god that needs constant praising and constant reminders of his awesomeness sounds suspiciously like Everyman.
:cheerldr:
Maybe he's just bored because of your lack of hmmmm is it called "faith"... and by the way he defeated death and he was a Jew...
It's probably the 'Jew' part.
:rolleyes:
anyway, that's what my Jewish boyfriend tells me.
Well then he shouldn't be mad at me for scrambling the frequency of the Columbia and "acidently" causeing the first jew in space to die I mean afterall who cares about making history right.. and while we are at it lets just cut and paste obamas head over the five dollar bill after all who needs to preserve this union and better yet lets all just drive our cars off a cliff with a cell phone remote control after all who cares about anything... and what exactly DO you care about??
I care about freedom. I care about the harm the patriarchal religions have done over these past thousand years. I care about my fellow travelers on this planet and I care about animals, the earth, space, love and knowledge. I care about good energy and shun the negative as much as I can. I care about free speech, equal rights and the oppression and poverty of so many people that I will never, ever be able to help or ease their burden.
We are made of star-stuff. I believe we are energy. I care about the energy I put out and surround myself with.
Peace, brother. Just don't cram your god down my throat, ok? and this union? We could do better. This place is run by old rich white guys - don't you know that?
And goddess is a black woman. So, when you get to meet her, look the fuck out.
I respect you very much for making those statements I think I feel some of that energy rubbing off on me...
... I figure I have a 1 in 10 chance of "getting through" to someone, if I have to push away 9 atheist to get to one helpless soul then I will have done a good work.
Aw, too bad that's not what's happening. You're pushing away 10 helpless souls and getting to no one. The atheists were already away and didn't need to be pushed. What a waste of time you've made.
Did you get caught up on your sleep brother klyde? Perhaps when you're well rested you'll have a better chance of getting to someone. Up to now, all you have for all your trolling are fish stories; but, no fish. You didn't get to anyone and have done no
good work.
I'm just getting started...
I'm just getting started...
You've been just getting started like forever. You figure you "have a 1 in 10 chance of "getting through" to someone"; but, there are hundreds here, perhaps thousands lurking and you haven't gotten one fish since Nov 2008.
Don't you see that even with something as simple to do as trolling, you still have to be able to select the right bait. You can't just throw a bare hook into the water or put whatever you want on it. You have to bait it with something the fish like; or, your not really trolling at all. Your just dragging. You've become a drag, a drag for Christ. By doing that you are certainly not being "F'ool for C'hrist." You're just making a fool of Christ. Maybe you should stick with just being a prayer warrior. If you don't think that prayer is enough, then you don't really believe in the power of prayer and your faith is weak.
If something is worthwhile doing, it's worthwhile doing well. Do that which you can do well and leave what you haven't been doing well to God's other children. You're not His one and only. You ARE the one with no fish.
You know what I think.. I think my web site is just soooooo state of the art your not used to seeing something so kool and you are imedieantly rejecting it's capabilities... comming from someone who adverties him/her self a sexobon makes me think why should I even listen cause sex is not what I'm after... I started to ignore you once but changed my mind I don't see getting into a fuss with some nympho as a worthy cause but I find you pleasantly annoying because I know I have faults that need to be corrected and If I don't take the advice I might end up loosing my mind... oh wait I already did that so I'll just change coarse and say this, my primary goal is to rescue people who are like me stuck in a system that's broke and keep people from falling into the same TRAP... you should just call it the blind leading the blind but it's blind faith that I'm running off of... enough
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,864
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Posts: 736
and your telling ME I talk to much...
... I started to ignore you once but changed my mind ... so I'll just change coarse and say this, my primary goal is to rescue people ... you should just call it the blind leading the blind but it's blind faith that I'm running off of... enough
What arrogance it is to believe that you can rescue other people when you're the one in need of rescue. No, not just arrogance, not blind faith either, it's the delusional nature of your mental illness. It will never be enough to act on blind faith. If God had wanted everyone to act on blind faith, he wouldn't have given us our minds' eyes. You've perverted God's teachings to suit your own fantasy of being someone and something you're not and can never be. You're just in it for the attention you get and that's why you didn't put me on ignore. You're a pathetic attention whore who fraudulently bills himself as a "F'ool for C'hrist." I pity the delusional fool. God help you brother Klyde.
even my thearpist would say your wrong... the net is the only outlet I have where I can actually communicate freely in a social enviorment and I'm an anti-socialist I've heard it all before .. I'm just trying to have fun and I'd rather masturbate than listen to people who are esentially takeing advantage of my kind free willed heart your the very reason chaltholic preist decided for fuck children in the ass and that's what your trying to do to me, only your useing your posistion what ever that may be, obvioisly we'll never know becasue you are just flauntling your whore dome all over the place, to try and make me seem infeirior... atleast I put my heart and life on the line in the name of good science to learn.. your just using your cock or hey maybe it's a pussy wip for all I know you have both.. to try and demean me..
What arrogance it is to believe that you can rescue other people when you're the one in need of rescue. No, not just arrogance
and by the way I've been in the system for about 12 years long enough to get stable and see how it works or dosen't work and my mom she's a highly connected nurse...
... I'm just trying to have fun ... people who are esentially takeing advantage of my kind free willed heart ... and make me seem infeirior... atleast I put my heart and life on the line in the name of ... try and demean me... and by the way I've been in the system for about 12 years ...
You've been in the system long enough to have learned how to manipulate it and use people. You have a corrupt moral compass that plays on faith for self aggrandizement which clearly demonstrates that your ethics ARE inferior. You try to shove your beliefs down other peoples throats, demean their belief systems and say "I'm just trying to have fun." You've never put your life on the line for anything and your heart is without compassion for anyone who believes differently from you. When someone puts your behavior into perspective, you whine like a child.
Have you taken your meds like your supposed to brother Klyde?
I have an appointment on 8/07/2012 with a vocational rehabiliation specialist. I am going to try to get back in school to study fine art. Had I not been cast-ed off into exile for playing viedo games I might have learned a different ethic code. I got sick in the middle of my studies and I was studying geothermal engineering. Aperentlly my education structure collapased and now I am just some piece of shit ex asasian science project. Or as I perfer to call it a lab rat for the Men In Black. Have no doubt if I get back in school I will be more than happy to follow the rules. But until then we play it my way.
I have an appointment on 8/07/2012 with a vocational rehabiliation specialist. I am going to try to get back in school to study fine art. Had I not been cast-ed off into exile for playing viedo games I might have learned a different ethic code. I got sick in the middle of my studies and I was studying geothermal engineering. Aperentlly my education structure collapased and now I am just some piece of shit ex asasian science project. Have no doubt if I get back in school I will be more than happy to follow the rules. But until then we play it my way.
Best of luck to you on a suitable placement. I'm sure you can do more rewarding things than trolling in the Cellar. Here's an oldie; but, goodie for you:
God, grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, and Wisdom to know the difference.
Godspeed brother Klyde.
PS: Nobody's going to play it your way but you. This "we play it my way" bit is a delusion secondary to your mental illness. Are you watching the time? You don't want to miss your next dose of medication.
And their burgers were crap and the chips poorly cooked.
I bet the portions were small, too.
;)
PS: Nobody's going to play it your way but you. This "we play it my way" bit is a delusion secondary to your mental illness. Are you watching the time? You don't want to miss your next dose of medication.
see that's just uncalled for... your world of propriety is trumped by my slobness in the fact that I usually really do get what I want.. but then again I don't really want anything...
see that's just uncalled for... your world of propriety is trumped by my slobness in the fact that I usually really do get what I want.. but then again I don't really want anything...
Another satisfied customer left wanting for nothing. Pleasure doing business with you. Come back for our
"ask for nothing get another nothing free" sale. It's so nice to see a person content to reap what he's sown.
So it looks as though the exchange between JBK and Sexobon is winding down.
It went on for quite while without interruption by other Dwellars.
How do you feel about that exchange ?
How does who feel?
[eta] if that was directed at other dwellars generally, then: not entirely sure. A little uncomfortable.
I started to type something a couple of times then stopped and pulled back.
I feel rather abashed.
I know JBK has issues with his mental health. I provoked him and I know better than that. That is not a kind thing to do.
My hackles get up sometimes - and after a week solid with the 'rents and my little sister who tokes pretty much every 20 minutes (I'd no idea it was that bad) I'm touchy.
JBK's god is his god. Whatever. We all die alone in the end and life is only a borrowing of bones.
I nearly fell off my chair when, not knowing the origin of my username, brother Klyde came up with this:
... someone who adverties him/her self a sexobon makes me think why should I even listen cause sex is not what I'm after... I started to ignore you once but changed my mind I don't see getting into a fuss with some nympho ...
:lol:
I nearly fell off my chair when, not knowing the origin of my username, brother Klyde came up with this:
:lol:
Isn't that weird? JBK thought of sex when he saw your handle and I thought of --- Cinnabon.
One of us has his/her mind in the gutter.
:donut:
the main point I am trying to make is that I can play both sides of the coin. Either Heads. I'm really smart and I digitally assinated Saddam and was kind harted enough hand him over to a jury of his peers. Or Tales. I hijacked the Atlantis and and simlpy crippled the mules on a doomed vessel. Or Sping Hole in one.
Works for the mental illness too.. I am able to function on a disabled yet cognitive level and as long as I can paint I can proceed with LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIFFFFFFFFFFFEEEEE it's life jim but not as we know it.
So it looks as though the exchange between JBK and Sexobon is winding down.
It went on for quite while without interruption by other Dwellars.
How do you feel about that exchange ?
*shrug* Maybe I'm totally misinterpreting things, but I felt like sexobon was never really angry, he was trying to do one of those quasi-therapy things where you use anger as the only way to reach someone, like when you goad someone into screaming at you and then suddenly say, "Now, doesn't that feel better?" But I don't think that sort of thing ever works on people who are legitimately mentally ill. It's clear JBK got genuinely riled up in his post with all the spelling errors, despite his best efforts, but in the end he's not in a place to be able to objectively reflect on that, so it was pointless. So I personally feel like it was a misguided effort and sexobon pushed it too far, but I also believe his heart was in the right place, and that he was trying to help JBK for his own good, not just being mean for the fun of it.
(That'll teach you not to ask me for my opinion...)
I feel rather abashed.
I know JBK has issues with his mental health.
I provoked him and I know better than that.
That is not a kind thing to do.
My hackles get up sometimes - and after a week solid with the 'rents and my little sister
who tokes pretty much every 20 minutes (I'd no idea it was that bad) I'm touchy.
JBK's god is his god. Whatever. We all die alone in the end and life is only a borrowing of bones.
For me, Briana comes very close.
And like Dana, I started to write something and then backed away.
But why back away ?
My issues with Sexobon's postings comes from experiences I had as a kid,
when I realized it's not a good thing to go after someone
who has an illness or some other sort of unique situation.
Calling names has been an issue for me, and I try very hard
to avoid the "you" in sentences like "What you need to do is..."
The word seems generally to provoke only anger, not understanding.
I asked for the feelings of others because this particular exchange went on for so many postings,
with nothing really new being said, except the ridicule getting more intense.
Maybe some people felt as I did that the exchange was going badly, or maybe not.
And @Clod: Yes, I (usually ;)) do want to know what others are thinking.
So, from me to JBK... hang in there with what you do best, and ignore all the rest.
.
That' rings right to me clod. I did at one point think sexobon was really riled but
as the argument continued I thought.not. But JB seemed rattled by it and not in any way placed to understand such a lesson.
*shrug* Maybe I'm totally misinterpreting things, but I felt like sexobon was never really angry ...
Actually, you got the attention grabber methodology right; however, not the goal. As with others who have passed through here, this is not a venue for effecting long term results. It was simply delivering a short term attention fix, at a controlled level that would hold a short attention span, so the recipient could chill for a little while afterwards. It was a viable outlet for his less desirable behaviors since I don't take it personally or hold grudges. He had multiple avenues of egress; yet, chose not to avail himself of them because the interaction was cathartic for him. No guarantees, results are highly variable. The recipient won't remember the content; but, perhaps the duration. I just happened to have the time this weekend which is why it hasn't happened before and may or may not happen again.
just another day in paradise... still can't sleep
Just please don't try to play doctor on me, this new show 'mob doctor' has me paranoid enough. I am sick of people telling me to take my meds when I take them religiously.
I'm not gonna. Can't speak for my fellow Dwellars tho.
free will.
Greatest gift
ever!
Greatest gift ever!
If it is a 'gift' then it comes with more strings than a harpsichord.
I am disappoint. So few actually took the time to define god, and instead used this as another opportunity to discuss whether or not an undefined god exists.
I believe in an undefined god.
If it is a 'gift' then it comes with more strings than a harpsichord.
How so? When is the freedom to choose
not the freedom to choose?
I am disappoint. So few actually took the time to define god, and instead used this as another opportunity to discuss whether or not an undefined god exists.
Some of us did. You asked us how
we define God. Some of us, me included, gave you
our answers. Some of us, me included unfortunately, flamed poor JB for his beliefs.
If there is a God, and free will is his gift to us, then it is a gift with strings. If the choice is simply that we abide with him and go to heaven, or not abide with him and go to hell.
We have a choice. But if we exercise that choice in anything other than absolute obedience to his will, the consequence of that choice is everlasting torment.
If it is a gift then it is a gift with strings. Personally I don't believe free will is a gift I think it just is. It is simply another way of saying we have independent consciousness.
[eta]if there's a God and he gave us free will then it is not a gift. It is a maze with one door leading to bliss and another leading to damnation. It is a self indulgent glory fuck and grand experiment.
Only if you include a literal heaven and hell in your belief set, which many do not.
We live in hell. Heaven is the next plane of existence. Our little brains are just too...well...little to comprehend anything more. We're so consumed by our earthly bodies that we forget our minds and spirit and think only in terms of satisfying the body when we think of 'heaven'. The funny part is, our body doesn't get to go to that place anyway.
God to me is that spiritual ideal that we all strive for and think we're getting closer to with every perceived 'good decision' we make.
We're so far from close it's not even funny. Even the best of us.
It's good to keep trying though.
There's a reason the parental metaphor gets used in most religions, and it's not just creation-as-procreation. Children often don't understand why their parents do certain things, or that those things are in their best interest even when they don't seem to be. A child denied a cookie might wonder how mom/god can possibly be benevolent when she allows evil/cookie-loss in the world. But someday, eventually, they understand the point. Life for many believers is just another version of toddlerhood, doing their best in a confusing world that teaches hurtful lessons, optimistically hoping that someday they will be ready to understand the point.
OK Now I am disappoint that no one has made a "God, deepfried" clone thread.
Ironically, I fell into this video tonight following another Cellar video link. Hearing individual stories humanizes the search (or the end of the search) for G-d. Most people are born into their religion. Some choose to change, some to continue, and some to maintain their religious identity while no longer actively practicing.
[YOUTUBE]dknumOcNVcU[/YOUTUBE]
God is the word people use when they get tired of saying, "I don't know why".
So...the cosmic equivalent of 'just because'.
So...the cosmic equivalent of '[SIZE="3"]J[/SIZE]ust [SIZE="3"]B[/SIZE]ecause'.
Hehhehheh, cosmic message for Dani -
What else could it stand for?
The cosmos moves in mysterious ways.
Actually, you got the attention grabber methodology right; however, not the goal. As with others who have passed through here, this is not a venue for effecting long term results. It was simply delivering a short term attention fix, at a controlled level that would hold a short attention span, so the recipient could chill for a little while afterwards. It was a viable outlet for his less desirable behaviors since I don't take it personally or hold grudges. He had multiple avenues of egress; yet, chose not to avail himself of them because the interaction was cathartic for him. No guarantees, results are highly variable. The recipient won't remember the content; but, perhaps the duration. I just happened to have the time this weekend which is why it hasn't happened before and may or may not happen again.
tl;dr
You Can't Always Get What You Want. (But if you try, sometimes, you get what you need.)
just another day in paradise... still can't sleep
I hear ya, JB. Those long 3:00 am's of the soul suck. Think I'm in for one tonight myself.
So it looks as though the exchange between JBK and Sexobon is winding down.
It went on for quite while without interruption by other Dwellars.
How do you feel about that exchange ?
I agree with sexobon. He (sexobon) was just being an attention whore at JBK's expense. Sexobon may have a clever vocabulary and a certain sort of wit he shares in common with bullies everywhere. But it was sexobon who acted the part of the troll that he accuses JBK of being.
I believe that JBK is sincere in his effort to convert even one of us heathens and thus spare that individual the wrath of the god JBK believes in. It's actually pretty altruistic on his part, although I still feel that JBK would be better received and get a better discussion if he cruised on over to the Internet Infidels Forums.
I am disappoint. So few actually took the time to define god, and instead used this as another opportunity to discuss whether or not an undefined god exists.
As has been mentioned, I too feel the irony is that "god" is not a term that I can use to describe or define that which is the spirit of the universe. And "spirit of the universe" is just my short hand for how I think of a Greater Intelligence which infuses all sentient beings everywhere. I am "god." You are "god." The cats and the dogs and the mice and the rats are "god." We all inter-be. We all have the power to act like the angels or take on the role of the devil. And I use the terms "angels" and "devil" metaphorically here because I don't believe there actually are such things until they are called into power by individual human beings. Think Mother Theresa versus Adolf Hitler.
When it comes to a spiritual path - NOT a religous one - Buddhism works for me. When asked if there was a "god" or not, the Buddha replied, "God exists and god does not exist. If you spend your time trying to understand about the possibility of god and setting forth doctrine, you are straying from the true path - the eight fold noble path which leads to the end of suffering.
I doubt if JBK would be pleased with this comparison, but I actually view him as someone very similiar to a Buddhist who has taken the Bodisattva Vow. One who does this vows to never attain perfect enlightenment and thus go to Nirvana where suffering ceases to exist. Instead, the person - usually called a "stream entrant," vows to return life time after life time to this world until all sentient beings have attained enlightenment at long last and all suffering is at end.
This is an act of deep compassion for one's fellows just as JBK is concerned about the unbelievers here on the Cellar. I think JBK is doing the best he can despite great difficulties. It is easy to mock, but far harder to attain understanding.
... I agree with sexobon. ...
:eek:
flint had a beautiful metaphor about how Jesus chops up the broccoli of our sin and crams it down the disposal of god's love. Or something like that.
Ha! I had forgotten about that...
To understand the Casimir Effect, one first has to understand something about a vacuum in space as it is viewed in quantum field theory. Far from being empty, modern physics assumes that a vacuum is full of fluctuating electromagnetic waves that can never be completely eliminated, like an ocean with waves that are always present and can never be stopped. These waves come in all possible wavelengths, and their presence implies that empty space contains a certain amount of energy--an energy that we can't tap, but that is always there. (
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=what-is-the-casimir-effec)
What interests me is that the smartest, most intelligent and brightest of our society today will readily accept the idea that empty space may indeed be filled with an infinite amount of energy, of all wavelengths..like an ocean of waves that can never be stopped, an energy that we can't tap but is always there...and instantly rebel at the idea that God exists.
Could it be that they reject the idea of god as it has been handed down from primitive desert dwellers but may be open to a less pre-packaged god. One which fills the needs of a modern mind?
There's an idea, God should have a sockpuppet. But what to call it?
Well, I guess it's time I owned up, eh? ;)
slang used to speak for God here. :)
What interests me is that the smartest, most intelligent and brightest of our society today will readily accept the idea that empty space may indeed be filled with an infinite amount of energy, of all wavelengths..like an ocean of waves that can never be stopped, an energy that we can't tap but is always there...and instantly rebel at the idea that God exists.
If scientists claimed that the energy was intelligent and didn't want people to masturbate, I'd be skeptical.
I am not a Christian, Muslim, Nor a Jew, I claim to know nothing of the desert dwellers and their religious practices and how they tell people not to masturbate. I prefer to leave discussion of religion out of discussion about God. I'm not a religious man, so it seems only fair. I can't talk about something I know nothing about, nor participate in.
Masturbate all you wish, I'm not hanging about to tell anyone what God would have them do.
That's another reason a scientist might have trouble accepting a god. It's a word without any particular meaning, and whenever a silly but commonly accepted aspect of it is brought up, one can just say "I'm not talking about THAT kind of god!"
That's sort of the whole point this thread was created for.
Well said that cheerful monkey.
If scientists claimed that the energy was intelligent and didn't want people to masturbate, I'd be skeptical.
I am not a Christian, Muslim, Nor a Jew, I claim to know nothing of the desert dwellers and their religious practices and how they tell people not to masturbate. I prefer to leave discussion of religion out of discussion about God. I'm not a religious man, so it seems only fair. I can't talk about something I know nothing about, nor participate in.
The problem for scientists is that religion has so often opposed progress in science this forces people into camps based on their training and individual wiring/ brain functioning. Joe's God could be amenable to science but once groups start defining "him" we're putting structures in place that will lead to conflict. In religion there is value placed in faith, believing what their is no evidence for. I've heard very intelligent people defend that. They get something from that cognitive dissonance and believe society gains something from it as well. I'm open to the idea of God but I'm not able to construct one sufficiently durable.
... In religion there is value placed in faith, believing what their is no evidence for. I've heard very intelligent people defend that. They get something from that cognitive dissonance and believe society gains something from it as well. ...
In religion, faith in God is a sacred cow.
To understand the Casimir Effect, one first has to understand something about a vacuum in space as it is viewed in quantum field theory. Far from being empty, modern physics assumes that a vacuum is full of fluctuating electromagnetic waves that can never be completely eliminated, like an ocean with waves that are always present and can never be stopped. These waves come in all possible wavelengths, and their presence implies that empty space contains a certain amount of energy--an energy that we can't tap, but that is always there. (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=what-is-the-casimir-effec)
What interests me is that the smartest, most intelligent and brightest of our society today will readily accept the idea that empty space may indeed be filled with an infinite amount of energy, of all wavelengths..like an ocean of waves that can never be stopped, an energy that we can't tap but is always there...and instantly rebel at the idea that God exists.
I am not a Christian, Muslim, Nor a Jew, I claim to know nothing of the desert dwellers and their religious practices and how they tell people not to masturbate. I prefer to leave discussion of religion out of discussion about God. I'm not a religious man, so it seems only fair. I can't talk about something I know nothing about, nor participate in.
Masturbate all you wish, I'm not hanging about to tell anyone what God would have them do.
The problem for scientists is that religion has so often opposed progress in science this forces people into camps based on their training and individual wiring/ brain functioning. Joe's God could be amenable to science but once groups start defining "him" we're putting structures in place that will lead to conflict. In religion there is value placed in faith, believing what their is no evidence for. I've heard very intelligent people defend that. They get something from that cognitive dissonance and believe society gains something from it as well. I'm open to the idea of God but I'm not able to construct one sufficiently durable.
If you want to say that there's some "force" "out there" just hanging around, go right ahead. But if you claim that it's all-powerful, has a personality, and wants to be worshipped, I call bullshit.
But Joe's challenge is why, a few years back, I had to admit I was agnostic rather than atheist.
There is no doubt in my mind that all religious texts are the superstitious bullshit of a backwards people trying vainly to describe their world. As Penn Jillette says, reading the bible is the easiest way to become an atheist. But just because those guys in the desert got it wrong, doesn't mean that there's some form* that kicked this all into motion. That, I have no way of knowing; and so the answer has to be I Don't Know and not only that but I Will Never Know.
So, even though I will only believe in things that are directly observable and provable, doesn't mean I can say there is definitely no God, whatever that word might represent.
The fact that the universe is pretty much incomprehensible is not an argument for OR against a God.
*The superstitious people wanted that form to be semi-human, to have human shape, human thinking. We all want our God to be describable in human terms. It may not be.
But Joe's challenge is why, a few years back, I had to admit I was agnostic rather than atheist.
You can be both. Most atheists* are agnostic. If an omnipotent being wanted to hide, it could. But just because it's theoretically possible doesn't mean it's worth believing.
*ETA: I suspect that many theists are, as well.
Do you believe? Atheist or Theist
Can you be 100% certain? Agnostic or Gnostic
What God is depends on what your definition of "is" is.
It doesn't even have to be omnipotent, just smart enough to fool us very thoroughly.
By the same argument, I'm equally agnostic on gnomes.
If you want to say that there's some "force" "out there" just hanging around, go right ahead. But if you claim that it's all-powerful, has a personality, and wants to be worshipped, I call bullshit.
I'd say it's only as powerful, has personality and wants to be worshiped just about as much as the collection of about $100.00 worth chemicals typing on these keyboards. Actually this force may have more personality.
What interests me is that the smartest, most intelligent and brightest of our society today will readily accept the idea that empty space may indeed be filled with an infinite amount of energy, of all wavelengths..like an ocean of waves that can never be stopped, an energy that we can't tap but is always there...and instantly rebel at the idea that God exists.
The difference between the two propositions though, is this: the idea that God exists isn't based on any observable or measurable phenomena. That is to say, every observable phenomena which we have been able to measure has offered a non-deity explanation. The unseeable energy that so many people are prepared to believe in wasn't just posited as an idea, it was arrived at through the use of mathematics, and observations of other, observable phenomena reacting to or being affected by 'something' unseen. More importantly, their findings could be replicated by others using the same methods.
And yes, there are gaps left to be filled. But why would my mind not rebel at the notion of God? 'God' has been offered time and again as the answer to the great questions, but nobody as yet has been able to find any real sign of the existence of 'God', either in terms of measurable and observable phenomena, or in terms of unobservable but mathematically theorised effects on same.
Everytime we go a little further in, God gets pushed a little further out. And still people say: ahhh, but...you can't say he doesn't exist. He can't be found, and his effect on the world cannot be measured, or even inferred (in scientific terms) from other natural phenomena. Time and again, our greatest scientists and most creative minds dig a little deeper and time and again the explanation is not God. We go further in and deeper down, we go further out and bigger scale, and it is never God we find.
I don't trust the words of priests, or holy books, or spiritually inclined people on this matter, because their 'methods' are suspect. I don't trust the feeling of 'there must be something there' and I don't trust the feeling of 'someone watching over me'.
I do trust, broadly, the scientific method to increase our understanding of our world and universe. I trust them to occasionally get it wrong, or misread the evidence. I also trust them to revisit and revise and I trust each new generation of scientists approaching a problem to go further.
Why would my mind 'rebel' at the idea of something I cannot see, but which can be shown through mathematics (as much as anything the building blocks of existence) and observation of phenomena in repeatable formulas as possible or probable?
Why would my mind not rebel at something which cannot be seen, proved, theorised beyond the simple feeling of 'something must be behind it all' and yet is broadly accepted as truth by vast numbers of people, simply because other people who also felt sure there must be something behind it all said so thousands of years ago. Why would my mind not rebel at a work of fantasy masquerading as fact?
It doesn't even have to be omnipotent, just smart enough to fool us very thoroughly.
What's the quote about one man's science being another man's magic?
The difference between the two propositions though, is this: the idea that God exists isn't based on any observable or measurable phenomena. That is to say, every observable phenomena which we have been able to measure has offered a non-deity explanation...
Science has been able to explain (not prove) almost everything since the big bang. If you want to say that god is what created matter/energy, and caused the big bang, you'll get no argument from me. Beyond that, I'll argue.
Science has been able to explain (not prove) almost everything since the big bang. If you want to say that god is what created matter/energy, and caused the big bang, you'll get no argument from me. Beyond that, I'll argue.
Because sooner or later we'll kick the football?
Dunno
But I do know that we've come a long way, but we are still pretty stupid. And our egotism keeps getting in the way when we describe the universe -- and probably when we describe this God thing, too. We are handcuffed by our concept of what we thought God would be: a better, smarter version of ourselves, most of the time, which now seems ridiculous.
I think as human beings we understand the world in terms of social relationships and agency. 'God' is our way of imposing social relationships and agency onto the universe.
And our egotism keeps getting in the way when we describe the universe -- and probably when we describe this God thing, too.
This. If one is sufficiently humble about what we can and cannot know, then God and science converge on being synonymous. But the egomaniacal twats take up both far ends of the spectrum--one ends up with a bearded-man-God who wants to tell everybody what to do, and the other can't help but masturbate to the certainty that we are
so much better and smarter than our animal instincts.
The difference between the two propositions though, is this: the idea that God exists isn't based on any observable or measurable phenomena. That is to say, every observable phenomena which we have been able to measure has offered a non-deity explanation. The unseeable energy that so many people are prepared to believe in wasn't just posited as an idea, it was arrived at through the use of mathematics, and observations of other, observable phenomena reacting to or being affected by 'something' unseen. More importantly, their findings could be replicated by others using the same methods.
And yes, there are gaps left to be filled. But why would my mind not rebel at the notion of God? 'God' has been offered time and again as the answer to the great questions, but nobody as yet has been able to find any real sign of the existence of 'God', either in terms of measurable and observable phenomena, or in terms of unobservable but mathematically theorised effects on same.
Everytime we go a little further in, God gets pushed a little further out. And still people say: ahhh, but...you can't say he doesn't exist. He can't be found, and his effect on the world cannot be measured, or even inferred (in scientific terms) from other natural phenomena. Time and again, our greatest scientists and most creative minds dig a little deeper and time and again the explanation is not God. We go further in and deeper down, we go further out and bigger scale, and it is never God we find.
I don't trust the words of priests, or holy books, or spiritually inclined people on this matter, because their 'methods' are suspect. I don't trust the feeling of 'there must be something there' and I don't trust the feeling of 'someone watching over me'.
I do trust, broadly, the scientific method to increase our understanding of our world and universe. I trust them to occasionally get it wrong, or misread the evidence. I also trust them to revisit and revise and I trust each new generation of scientists approaching a problem to go further.
Why would my mind 'rebel' at the idea of something I cannot see, but which can be shown through mathematics (as much as anything the building blocks of existence) and observation of phenomena in repeatable formulas as possible or probable?
Why would my mind not rebel at something which cannot be seen, proved, theorised beyond the simple feeling of 'something must be behind it all' and yet is broadly accepted as truth by vast numbers of people, simply because other people who also felt sure there must be something behind it all said so thousands of years ago. Why would my mind not rebel at a work of fantasy masquerading as fact?
Atheists are convinced that this life is the only shot they have at expressing themselves which is why they make such long posts. :p: