Why is it ok to treat women like shit?
Why do we have all this misogynistic crap all over this board?? WHY is it ok to make degrading, demeaning comments about women and post porn pics of them and it's NOT ok to call someone a nigger or Sammie or whatever have you? Why is respect for women the last goddamn frontier for some of you?
I, for one, am getting sick of it.
And if any of my fellow females on this board want to tell me to "chill out, it's a joke, just ignore them," you all can take a flying fuck, too. So save your breath and typing skills.
I'm sick of Grav and his fucking attitude towards women. Oh, wait, let me guess: He LOVES women! He really does! That's why he compartmentalizes them into asses and boobs! Coz of LOVE!
Fuck OFF.
Im right there with you Bri. I pointed that out to Grav a while ago...he just whined and had his little temper tantrum over it.
It would be nice if the men around here showed more class, but I guess they just dont have any.
Not sure what provoked this OP, but I guess it's hit a nerve.
I think lots of things are going to change in a big way over the next 10yrs or so, starting with the decay of PC behaviours. I also think that corporal punishment for children is going to have a rebirth.
I could be wrong, but sooner or later you're all going to have to tow the line or else!
eta: I don't like a lot of the stuff Grav posts, but I don't take personal offence to it. Not for the reasons people might expect, simply because I wouldn't associate with someone with those sorts of attitudes irl, so those types of posts from him get 'compartmentalised' by me.
I'll fuck off, I really will, but I find a thread titled 'cool weapons' far more offensive than the Arctic picture in the other thread.
Congratulations on the 14,000th post by the way.
THANK you bri.
It's great to see someone other than me being sick of this shit. people have stopped listening to me when I point out their bullshit.
Bri, didn't you have a picture from the 80s where --
aw shit I think you already know the answer to the question you asked.
Ibs didn't you have a picture last week where --
aw shit
where what?
I think you're missing the point pretty deeply, UT.
Ya know what? I'm tired of this shit. Go rack a bike in your own fucking ass, ok Grav?
Fuck this whole place in general as it treats women. I'm sick of this misogynistic CRAPola.
You guys don't run around saying "nigger" do you? No, but it's ok to demean and degrade women all over this board.
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUck it.
This whole place. Really. I guess you could not look at those ones that offend you. Your choice of words "mysogynistic crap all over this board" is a pretty sweeping exaggeration. But it's possible I don't see what you see, maybe because I like asses and boobs too. But, since I am part of this whole place, I take exception to your accusations. I'm not a mysogynist. At the risk of wasting my breath and keystrokes, I'll suggest get it out of your system, then chill out.
Yours in philogyny,
I miss nothing. Anyone who posted their own nekkid pics on the Cellar, expecting to be objectified, should not be posting in this thread, right? Because that would be kind of hypocritical.
point of order.
I've posted my own ass on the cellar (objectification at the viewer's discretion) and I have standing to post in this thread.
But your point about some objectification is ok and some is not being ... inconsistent is well made.
Respect is to be earned, not demanded. If they can't take a fuck, joke 'em. No wonder they're called the weaker sex.
[COLOR="White"]Not really, I'm just being a stinker to see how colorful the language can get here.[/COLOR]
I miss nothing. Anyone who posted their own nekkid pics on the Cellar, expecting to be objectified, should not be posting in this thread, right? Because that would be kind of hypocritical.
not in the slightest little bit.
I miss nothing. Anyone who posted their own nekkid pics on the Cellar, expecting to be objectified, should not be posting in this thread, right? Because that would be kind of hypocritical.
No, it wouldn't.
Firstly, I suspect you mean posting in support of the OP in this thread -but I could be wrong, it's been known...
Secondly, the OP is complaining about making "degrading, demeaning comments about women and post porn pics of them". How does that get downgraded to people posting pics of themselves and "expecting to be objectified"? ...and the expectation of objectification is a reach at that.......
Thirdly, missing nothing /= getting everything.
You're a couple of tribbles short of a logical conclusion, captain.
Eh...it doesn't get my knickers in a twist.
I do believe in tolerance, even crap I dislike. But that doesn't mean I'll take it home with me. Or keep my mouth shut if it affects my quality of life. A forum on the internet doesn't even break a ripple my direction.
@ Aliantha re:PC - I never, ever hit my kids. They are damn fine kids too. But I do see that society is backsliding into less civil, genteel attitudes. And I fear what the future will bring.
I have to agree with Stormie and others, though. It's unpleasant, but this is the interwebs. It's not "real life". And you can bet your bottom dollar the culprits are kinda henpecked/over-mothered IRL.
Unless you want a heavily moderated forum, there's not a lot you can do, especially on a no ad forum supported by donations. Unless you're rich.
So, not a lot you can do to change it, but you can refuse to let it piss you off.
I prefer the no ads and crap-to-be-ignored over heavy moderation and sponsor-pleasing content, myself. And I've actually been more productive IRL since there's been more mysogynistic crap to be ignored, but Grav wasn't the main culprit for me.
It doesnt hurt to voice our displeasure, though. I dont get upset, but I do get disapointed that some threads turn into mostly playboy-type posts. At least now its being kept in the NSFW Motivational Poster thread. It should really be renamed the 'Pictures to
Titillate the Adolescent Male" thread.
I don't really see a problem, if posted in nsfw. I don't have to like it and I can ignore it.
Because truthfully? Some women allow themselves to be objectified, and some men like that crap. Some call it ' brave.' I call it allowing yourself to be an object.
Respect is to be earned, not demanded.
I know you're not serious here, Sexo. But I hear this from teens all the time and it really sticks in my craw. I automatically accord respect and courtesy to all people. They can
lose it of course, mostly through behaviour towards me and other people. But I am never arrogant enough to assume anyone needs to
earn it; as if I am some sort of arbiter of what is what it means to be a human being.
Right on Sundae. If we approach it the other way society becomes pretty coarse. I had my disrespectful niece and nephew at the beginning of this vacation. I had to "parent" them pretty hard, things that should already be in place for everyone's zen were lacking. Their Gramma appreciated the support as they had worn her out with their disrespect, bickering, and fighting when she was on her own. If they don't figure it out eventually they're going to be left out of a lot of things.
First off: Happy Bastille Day everyone.
Now. Allow me to 'splain since some of you are in the dark.
I have fundamentally changed as a person since I have joined this board. I am a different person altogether. I DID indeed post those pics of myself and it was for the wrong reasons but I wouldn't do it today. Does that satisfy or do you need more detail?
The line about misogynistic crap all over this board was not fair. Not everyone here, certainly, is like that. I humbly apologize to those males who took offense. Even those females who took offense. I should have been more specific in my criticism. I meant Grav, of course. Yes, I can put him on 'ignore'. Yes, I am responsible for my own anger and feelings of helplessness and disgust when I see over and over and over how he demeans women. It really is my own problem. It's just that last evening I'd reached my limit and I said so. Photo after photo after photo of T&A like, someone said, an adolescent male fantasy world. Really fucking boring. And no, I do NOT want to see an equal number of cocks picutred on this board. It's all just so....yawn. But every once in a while it gets intolerably annoying. That's where I was coming from last night.
And UT? If you can't see that I am NOT the same woman who posted those pics of herself (titties only!!) I am saddened. I respect you and your opinion (for some reason, I do) and I wish you could see that I am different. But if you can't, that's ok. I know I am different. That is what really matters.
Oh hell, I get sick of seeing that shit too. But I get sick of seeing what I see everywhere: women who are 6 feet tall and 120 pounds and gorgeous and perfect. It's bullshit. It's why women struggle so with self-esteem.
And it's why I have always insisted on being talked to for WHO I am, not what I look like. It's why I want to barf every time someone posts a pic that has some of the guys slurping and snorting and rooting about. It's disgusting.
But I'm not mad at Grav. I've come to terms with the fact that he doesn't get why it might be offensive to some.
There's a lot of offensive crap here and an awful lot of selective indignation (not you Bri.)
Selective indignation offends the shit out of me.
And Bri, you have changed and you're a lovely person. :)
Well Bri you are now addressing Ibby and Monster because they saw all that differently somehow. They figured that the you who objectified yourself was the same you posting here and/or that you weren't presenting your pics to be objectified, or whatever. (even though I can state with full confidence that I objectified you only for a very short moment and then went off and sought better pics of other women whom I did not know personally and thus could fully objectify)
But now, help us out here: do you have some kind of contempt for the earlier you?
~
It's all very confusing for us guys because you see, that type of objectification is the entire reason we are here, as a species. Male sexual response is simple and entirely driven by the reptile brain. We absolutely have no concept that it is somehow bad that we would desire to see a particularly nice set and even share them. The idea that it is somehow demeaning to other women because one of them has a nice ass and we want to see it is ridiculous to us. I don't think of you any less because last night I went to youporn and looked at some of the most filthiest high def videos of women doing absolutely filthy things. I objectified the shit out of them and now here we are in the morning talking intelligently about all kids of stuff. I don't get it, was that wrong of me? Should I not share that part of me? Because it's a part of all of us. Should I not look at them until I've worked out whether they are decent people? Do I need my porn stars to talk? Is it bad that these women are probably damaged goods with terrible, abusive, or non-present fathers? Should I only look at porn from women who have a happy childhood? Is there anyone on earth who does not simply want to be desired, no matter whether it's for their body or their mind? And Bri, aren't your changes partly hormonal? Is this a version of you that would not have gotten your tits out at age 20 or whatever?
(I know that when Tiki got her tits out I respected her a lot less, if that means anything, because I was (finally) mature enough to realize she was attention-whoring and trying to be provocative, and I don't like my reptile brain being used that way.)
The hard questions.
Being a woman, I am probably more hormonally driven than a man. Probably. When I was young I certainly had as much interest in sex as the guys did. My lizard brain wanted sex, too, and wanted, in some weird way, I am sure, to make babies. I was very, very sexual as a teen/young woman. LOVED the sex, thank you very much. Do I have contempt for this younger, sexier self? No. I only have love and understanding for her. And a little bit of sorriness for her, too. Sooooooo stupid! But here's the thing I think: I grew along and grew into something more than a baby making machine. It took forever and it's still taking place now and YES I'm sure it has to do with cancer and surgery and being 48 which is a crone in this country and a huge relief as well. Women become mothers and then...for some of them, the sex thing changes. Our focus is on the infant and not the man. Biology.
I used to watch some pretty filthy porn. I thought porn was OK. Still do. As long as nobody gets hurt and scares the horses...you know, all that. Do whatever kinky thing you want but must you, MUST YOU shove in my face? Must I open every NSFW and see tits and ass and demeaning comments about parking bikes in butts? Is that all you've got? Coz, like all porn and transgressive material, that shit gets old fast. And it's hard to sometimes not take it personally. Like: Here's what you're good for. For fucking. For just simply fucking and fuck you and do what I say and be submissive and just shut up about it becaused Immma spurt in your mouf, beeeeeetch. That's how it feels sometimes to me. And you're asking me to shut up about it.
You're right. Male sexual response IS indeed simple. Indeed lizard-like. I guess I am expecting too much.
If there is one thing I have learned it's this: Lower your expectations and expect craziness.
thanks for reinforcing that lesson.
as far as porn stars - I've no idea what is wrong or right about them, damaged or not. I imagine they come from a variety of backgrounds. Enjoy it. Nobody is stopping you.
And you're asking me to shut up about it.
No I'm just asking the hard questions. I love this thread.
No I'm just asking the hard questions. I love this thread.
I'm glad you like it.
Have I answered any of your questions?
After contemplating it for a bit here, I think it's the boring-ness, same old, same old that is getting under my skin. The absolute boredom of witnessing the adolescent male brain. Ever see that hilarious clip of Andy Samburg as a teenaged boy directing all the freaky sex scenes in Game of Thrones? All he wants to do is see sex, boobs, ass, more sex, girl on girl, etc. etc. and it's very funny as he plays this 13 year old boy who is directing this stuff. "Sexposition" instead of 'exposition' they call it.
Yes, darling. I've seen boobies and cunts before. Yes, it's all very interesting and makes you feel funny 'down there' doesn't it? Can we move along now? No? You want to see more? For the rest of your LIFE?
Oh, ok. I'll just be over here. Becoming a human being.
eta: back to the original argument - why is it okay to define women by their sex organs but not other people by their skin color? Why is nigger a No No word while degrading women is OK? Why? Did John Lennon have it right?
Totally get where you're coming from Bri. From time totime it gets under my skin a bit too. Much as I am happy to banter with Grav, some of the stuff puts my hackles up.
Naming his girlfriend 'baby' on the boards really makes me wanna throw up a little in my mouth, but that's their gig I guess.
The deeply objectifying nature of some of the commentary around the pics is what makes them annoying I think. I had exactly the same response to yet another comment about parking bikes in girl's butts.
There was a time I used to comment about it. But I got sick of being the 'killjoy'.
I seldom visit the NSFW threads or anything resembling them. I'm simply not interested and the few times I viewed them, I found them demeaning. I'm sure if I "read" those threads on a regular basis I'd be pretty disgusted too. I'll grant UT's point that men tend to be the visual ones of the species and enjoy looking at stuff that make many women feel like objects, as well as lowering our self esteem. No real woman looks like the air brushed, photo-shopped creatures with the breast implants from Mars who star in the porn mags or the NSFW threads.
But I really don't care if men (or women) on the Cellar like viewing and contributing to those threads. Whatever floats your boat. Sometimes this stuff over flows into other threads, but short of censorship, what are you going to do? Frankly, I wish Big Sarge would stop urging female dwellers to post nude or scantily clad pix of themselves. I find such exhortations tiresome, but Big Sarge has his redeeming qualities, so I have never called him on it until this thread.
I wish all the men here could be like xoxoxoBruce. He lets female dwellers know that he appreciates the feminine form, but he never makes a woman feel ashamed or harassed about it. He's like a gentleman contemplating the pleasures of a fine wine. Take a page out of his book guys, and we women will love you to death.
See, now we all draw our lines in different places :p
Never bothers me if one of the dwellar men make a lewd comment about me, or anythng like that...it makes me feel good. It's a way of them saying to us that they find us sexy. Even if they don't! lol. At least that is real guys saying to real gals that they're sexy. Which, given most of us are just ordinary women with the lumps and bumps and wrinkles that often leave us feeling like we don't cut the mustard next to the airbrushed models we see all around us, I think is kind of sweet. Inclusive, I'd say.
It's the more abstract stuff that bothers me.
Shouldn't you women be ironing my shirts?
•spoken in to my phone
I believe we were making you a sammich?
oh right. my bad.
would you mind doing that topless? thankssomuch
I believe we were making you a sammich?
I would never make jimh a poisonous sammich, but I WOULD make one for a few I know. And I would gladly watch them as they ate up every bite.
And I'd be gleeful.
like an open-faced turkey sammich?
Shouldn't you women be ironing my shirts?
•spoken in to my phone
You wear shirts? I always imagined you like Tarzan of the jungle, swinging around the auto dealership showing off that 6 pack of abdominal muscles and those great biceps. Could you post pix?
* sent by dial-up from the local public library
Well, that certainly changed my image of Jim somewhat. I;d always imagined him in more of a Spartacus outfit you know?
This seems an appropriate place to post this:
[YOUTUBE]aTLx8BhOZck[/YOUTUBE]
I think Al Murray is funnier as the misogynistic Pub Landlord. Because although I know these are Jimmy Carr's comedy opinions and not his real opinions, I can't help it slightly colouring my opinion of the rest of his comedy.
Frankie Boyle is just balls-out offensive, so I can hear any of that from him. Also I think he will go back to visit his Mum and get a skelping.
Rory McGrath is just old-school. My feminist friend* hated him and refuse to acknowledge he had any intelligence. She equated him with Roy "Chubby" Brown (real name Royston Vasey). Whereas I like the fact he says things as he sees it, with the occasional joke on the far side of taste.
*said friend was really quite beautiful, but was offended if a man offered to buy her a drink. She said it was demeaning. And no, I never got to mop up her jilted suitors; when we went out together she set up a disapproving forcefield around us. I didn't mind not being chatted up - girls' night was about us and good fun. I regretted the loss of free drinks though ;)
Well, that certainly changed my image of Jim somewhat. I;d always imagined him in more of a Spartacus outfit you know?
Cancel that:
showing off that 6 pack of abdominal muscles and those great biceps. Could you post pix?
* sent by dial-up from the local public library
It's more of a Keg, really. I'm sure there's a six pack in it.... somewhere...
I like Al Murray too. And Frankie Boyle.
Never got that being offended if a guy offers you a drink thing.
There's a difference between 'sexist' comments and misogynistic comments, I think. Most of us are sexist to a lesser or greater degree. And some people are just working to a slightly different code of interaction to me. Context and intention count for a lot, as they do with most interaction.
I don't know that this issue is really about sexism or misogyny. It's certainly the touch point, but.... I think maybe.... the real source of this stress is the word 'Should'
http://www.thework.com/downloads/Little%20Book.pdf
ever read Loving What Is? Bri? It might could help ya.
Cancel that:
If you're going to picture me in that outfit, I'm going to picture you in this one:
All I see is an x...
[eta] Oh, nope, there she is!
I would totally rock that outfit.
I don't think I can say the same thing. off to have a bit of a wank now! brb!
I do think there is a difference between someone posting a pic of themselves to be looked at or admired, and someone posting a pic of an airbrushed ideal to be looked at, UT.
Sent by thought transference
Thanks, Jim, for the link.
I believe in what the author is saying. I've been involved in CBT since my ca diagnosis. It has really helped me.
To be completely honest here, these past few days have been very rough on me and something that might have rolled off my back before stuck in my caw and pissed me off. I reacted to it. Maybe I could have taken some time and just shrugged but the problem with an interwebz and a place to rant is that sometimes I type before I digest all the ins and outs, all the ups and downs, all the this and that of a situation. (Lebowski: New things have come to light!) but, then, you know what? fuck it, too. Coz I felt what I felt over that image and the commentary and the general lack of respect right at that moment became the whole moment.
Am I sorry?> Nope. Do I owe anyone an apology? Nope. Am I trying? Yes. I am trying. Learn new things everyday. Things I would never dream would happen to me happen (both good and bad) but all in all - I'm a lucky woman and if there's one thing my good friend told me to be it was to be lucky.
:)
Im right there with you Bri. I pointed that out to Grav a while ago...he just whined and had his little temper tantrum over it.
[ATTACH]39622[/ATTACH]
...but Grav wasn't the main culprit for me.
Who
are you, and what have you done with Monster?:eyebrow:
There's a lot in this thread that hits home for me. I can see that Bri has changed and I applaud that because she is more solid and loved here...me I have lost my way here.
I went through a phase where I thought I had to show the T&A to get some attention, but generally I dont fit in anymore and because I dont really have that connection - nobody gives a toss. I come back periodically to try and get back in, but it ends up the same.
Its a bit of a vicious circle, I know I have to put in more to be a part of it, but I find when I need a bit of love, it doesnt happen because I havent been around and I get annoyed again.
I really should just move on, but I have made some great friends here and I keep coming back.
So, I put my hand up to say I have enabled the objectifiers and continue to do so, but its for fucked up reasons.
Sorry
Awww...I still love you Ducky, even if you don't show us your T&A anymore. xxx
I think it all boils down to the women on here being bitter old crones. You're just jealous of how the men have matured majestically on this forum while you wither away...............................at least that's the way Gravdigr explained it to me. Face it, after 30 most women are so haggered we'd be doing them a favor to put them out of their misery
Ducks...we all love you. And when you aren't here we all miss you.
Ducks, ... What Dana said.
Sarge, you naughty, naughty boy!
Not to mention Ducks tells the world's best spider stories.
I have related the huntsman drama to friends and relatives and the response has been a uniform ohmigodnoshudder.
I do miss you when you're gone, Ducks! I think you are a very cool, independant woman. I reallly like you!! I'm sorry that that has not come through to you.
Stay here. You are very much needed and very much wanted.
Ali and I have some fundamental disagreements and I, stupidly and xenophobically, thought you Oz chickas would stick together and you not want to hear from me, etc.
Isn't it weird the things we make up in our heads?
Sarge, you need to add a smily-face, or you've just blown it BIG TIME. :eek:
Sarge is always like that - especially when it's his time of the month ...
...That's why he compartmentalizes them into asses and boobs!...
I compartmentalize (ooo, a big word) the women I haven't met into asses and boobs (you left out
snatches) because elbows and knees don't do anything for me.
Ima compartmentalize you in with the 'asses'.
Now go iron something.
Yeah...Jim's was funnier :p
[ATTACH]39655[/ATTACH]
I may have had too much fun with this.
I'm finished now.
Really.
Apologies to the rest of you about all this.
:D
I can see that Bri has changed and I applaud that because she is more solid and loved here...me I have lost my way here.
It's not because she's changed, it's because she took us along with her on her journey... that makes us family. As with every family there'll be some closer than others, some will be judgmental, some will be abrasive, but they all remain family.
I'm always happy to see your posts. Sure I loved the T&A, I'm a man. But that was only a couple of posts out of near 5,000. The rest of your posts are always interesting, and often funny because you can laugh at yourself. Miss you.
First off: Happy Bastille Day everyone.
Now. Allow me to 'splain since some of you are in the dark.
--snip--
The line about misogynistic crap all over this board was not fair. Not everyone here, certainly, is like that. I humbly apologize to those males who took offense.
--snip--
Brianna, thank you for your apology. I accept it.
Peace. :)
Happy Bastille Day to you too, and thanks for all the lutefisk.
As faf as my comments, I hope & pray that the women on here know it is part of an ongoing joke about age that I started last year. Also, I think the few women on here whom I have corresponded with know that I am attracted to inner beauty.
Yeah...I'm attracted to inner beauty. And massive cocks.
Well, that leaves me out........:( Just call me stumpy
Awww...I thought we'd gotten over those fundamental differences Bri.
We haven't even called each other bitch once this year! lol
Thanks to everyone who commented on my purge :)
Bri - Ali and I have had our differences too, although I cant remember them now, but I feel no obligation to stick by her because we were born in the same country....I would jump in because we are friends..besides that, I like to let people fight their own battles unless I have a point that hasnt been mentioned.
I havent commented on the content of this thread specifically because I am very blokey in the fact that I objectify men in the same way they objectify me. Those of you on my facebook will know that fact very well.
Now I have to go get ready for work :(
Ducks...we all love you. And when you aren't here we all miss you.
Wurd!
I... refuse to attach the images, but
submitted for your consideration.
As evidence that the issue here isn't just liking purdy lady-bits.
.
.
Awww...I thought we'd gotten over those fundamental differences Bri.
We haven't even called each other bitch once this year! lol
That's funny Ali :)
I... refuse to attach the images, but
submitted for your consideration.
As evidence that the issue here isn't just liking purdy lady-bits.
[QUOTE=Gravdigr ].
.
__________________[/QUOTE]
to me this reads like:
I'm imagining something, and I'm really upset by it. I could mention it but you should already know it because it's just so upsetting. I'll be clear about my upset, but I won't be clear about what it is, just a hint. And if you don't know what I'm talking about, I'm even more upset about that!
Ibby.
Please don't communicate like this. I can see the appeal to preserve your purity by not repeating the porno-equivalent of the "n-word" but it is a recipe for disaster when it comes to clarifying and settling differences. I speak from long experience. Be clear. Communication is hard enough when we use our words to our best ability, deliberately declining to be clear is an abdication.
V, if you click the arrows in the quotes Ibb linked, it takes you to the posts in question.
Still.. it's an NSFW thread. We all (including Grav) do a pretty good job of containing that kind of image within the NSFW threads. Personally, I find Ib's pictures in the RFN 2012 extremely creepy, and I think THEY should be in the NSFW area. But I didn't say anything at the time. I'm kind of done with the kid gloves now though.
Seriously Jim? They don't show anything. There's barely any skin showing. No underwear, no nothing.
ok, say you're me. I'm in my office. I click a NON NSFW thread just as one of my macho buddies walk in. this loads: (click the arrow)
click the arrow_________^
This is not safe for Jim.
V, if you click the arrows in the quotes Ibb linked, it takes you to the posts in question.
Still.. it's an NSFW thread. We all (including Grav) do a pretty good job of containing that kind of image within the NSFW threads. Personally, I find Ib's pictures in the RFN 2012 extremely creepy, and I think THEY should be in the NSFW area. But I didn't say anything at the time. I'm kind of done with the kid gloves now though.
Thanks for the cellar pro-tip jim, I didn't realize that.
My point still stands. In my experience, this would be akin to standing in the room, arms akimbo, silently glaring in the direction of the evidence of the offense in question (laundry, computer porn, dirty dishes, credit card receipt, that Hawaiian shirt, etc) . As opposed to just *saying*, plainly "That bothers me" perhaps accompanied by a helpful pointing gesture. Helpful cathartic gestures optional, of course.
ok, say you're me. I'm in my office. I click a NON NSFW thread just as one of my macho buddies walk in. this loads: (click the arrow)
This is not safe for Jim.
That's a fair point. I think calling the pics 'creepy' was a bit mean though. I'd be really hurt if someone said a pic of me trying to look pretty was creepy.
Sorry I missed those posts. Some time, when I'm not at work, I'll move 'em.
ok, say you're me. I'm in my office. I click a NON NSFW thread just as one of my macho buddies walk in. this loads: (click the arrow)
This is not safe for Jim.
This.
That's a fair point. I think calling the pics 'creepy' was a bit mean though. I'd be really hurt if someone said a pic of me trying to look pretty was creepy.
well, that's why I didn't say anything at the time, Dana. But for someone who demands tolerance, Ib is pretty goddamn intolerant.
Now, I find myself altering my posts to avoid gendered pronouns, for fucks sake. At what point does enough of the joy get sucked out of this place by all the worrying about who you're going to offend?
[YOUTUBE]BPoNDQiwK3c[/YOUTUBE]
I get that. And I think you could have said something at the time. Just y'know...in a less hurtful way. I don't see anything wrong, myself, with telling Ibs to put stuff with a sexy pose in the nsfw thread, regardless of if there's anything on show, on the grounds that the world we all move in is not the same as the Cellar.
well, that's why I didn't say anything at the time, Dana. But for someone who demands tolerance, Ib is pretty goddamn intolerant.
Now, I find myself altering my posts to avoid gendered pronouns, for fucks sake. At what point does enough of the joy get sucked out of this place by all the worrying about who you're going to offend?
--snip
Jim, in the immortal words of Wm Shakespeare:
Still in thy right hand carry gentle peace,
To silence envious tongues. Be just, and fear not.
I don't get it. What's so wierd about a pretty girl, fully clothed, showing off her tie collection? It's a little different, but BFD. As I posted earlier, I don't give a flying shit if men (or women) want to post cocks or tits or what have you on the NSFW threads. I don't read those threads and up to now ignorance has been bliss.
But I come down strongly on Ibby's side concerning the first link she provided for grvdigr's posts in the NSFW Motivational thread. I came up in the days before the idea of equal rights for women had ever even been thought of. In high school, I had a chemistry teacher who firmly believed that women could not understand science, and he told us that the first day of class. He informed us that no woman, no matter how well she scored on exams and homework would never recieve an "A" from him. Conversely, a woman could never attend a single class, flunk every test and still receive a "C" because the poor thing lacked the capacity to understand anything much beyond home economics. The principle and other teachers knew about this man's prejudice, but nary a one stepped in to correct the situation.
I wanted to study climatology when I was going to school in the 70's. I was actually accepted into a prestigous graduate program in that field. I was the token woman in that department. Every other student was male. I was the target of any number of sexist comments made by the FACULTY, not my fellow grad students. I had been awarded a teaching assistent position which would have covered my tuition and given me a small stipend, as well.
That teaching asignment was what did me in. There were 8 of those awards in the department of climatology, but only one of them was in direct conflict with Climatology 500, a class REQUIRED of every climatology grad major. It was an incredibly difficult class that involved such advanced math that it made my old nemesis calculus seem like the multiplication tables. Guess who got that sole conflicting teaching assignment?
Now, the department may have had a perfectly valid reason for giving it to the sole woman, but if so, they never mentioned it to me. I was told I could "comp" the climatology class and take the final with everyone else. Right. I still can see that book in my mind's eye. It was a slender dark blue volume and it started right out with differential equations - something that I was introduced to briefly 4 years before and had never used again. Let me tell you, I cried over that text and how far I was falling behind my classmates who got to go to the lectures and ask the prof questions. Call me a wimp or a "woman with no head for science," but I was forced to quit that program. I regret it to this day.
I could go on, but I'm sure you get the general idea.
Grvdigger can post all the tits and ass he wants, but his other post was way out of line. His anti-women posts are about as amusing as the following from:
Racist Redneck Rebels - "Keep The Hate Alive!"
Buttons you can buy:
"Ain't RACIST Just Never Met a NIGGER I liked"
"Martin Luther Coon"
Move over Johnny Rebel, we have a new and much more modern set of musical heroes on the White Power country music scene! Mixing hysterical stories and lyrics with easy to understand vocals and country-western musicianship, the Racist Redneck Rebels are taking the WP music scene by storm with these 16 hilarious tracks! As with all Micetrap Records releases, this cd includes a beautiful 12 page full color booklet with all lyrics:
01. Droppin' The Kids Off In Harlem (2:36)
02. Niggers, Niggers, Niggers (2:21)
03. We Are All Niggers (4:01)
04. The Nigger Crematory (2:09)
05. Pederast Priests (3:47)
06. Marty The Maggot (2:56)
07. Jungle Bunny (3:27)
08. All Good Things Come From Africa (2:20)
09. Blow Up The Middle East (2:44)
10. Free Mumia (1:58)
11. Like A Nigger On Payday (2:32)
12. Nigger Snipers (3:19)
13. Oh My God, I Married A Nigger (2:43)
14. Reparations My Ass! (2:02)
15. Whatever Happened To That Dear Ol' Klan Of Mine? (2:30)
16. The Birds Are Singing (3:25)
If an African American saw shit like this posted here, would he be justified in getting upset? But a woman shouldn't get upset over similiarly demeaning junk? Why not? What's the difference?
Just my 2 cents:
I'm a 51 year old gay male. I freely admit that the 1st thing I think of when I meet someone else with male parts is "Would I fuck this guy?"
Don't know if that means I objectify or demean them or not.
I just know that I have a dick and as long as it works, I'll keep think with it when i damn well want to.
I... refuse to attach the images, but
submitted for your consideration.
As evidence that the issue here isn't just liking purdy lady-bits.
If you're gonna cite, which is more than Brianna did, cite correctly, instead of just trying to continue stirring shit up.
[COLOR="Red"]Both those posts you point out were posted AFTER the shit flew. And were/are
clearly retaliatory posts. Anybody with a brain cell would see that.[/COLOR]
Carry on.
Man.
You people are getting pretty goddamned free with the 'N' word lately. Racism must be coming into vogue. Again.
I don't suppose it's possible YOU are offending ppl with that shit, is it?
...I come down strongly on Ibby's side concerning the first link she provided for grvdigr's posts in the NSFW Motivational thread...
Dear SamIAm: If you can get over being offended for, oh, say,
3 seconds, please observe the post times of the posts in question and note them in relation to Brianna's.
Have a nice day!
You people are getting pretty goddamned free with the 'N' word lately. Racism must be coming into vogue. Again.
I don't suppose it's possible YOU are offending ppl with that shit, is it?
there's an interesting rub.
Gilbert Gottfried on CNN today, talks about what happened after he was fired by Aflac for making tsunami jokes. Bold mine.
People on the Internet were screaming for my death. The news media jumped in, but of course their job is to make a mouse fart sound like it's a nuclear explosion. They reported on it and repeated my jokes, which seems odd: If what I said is so shocking and inexcusable, why are they repeating it?
[COLOR="Red"]Both those posts you point out were posted AFTER the shit flew. And were/are clearly retaliatory posts. Anybody with a brain cell would see that.[/COLOR]
Carry on.
I see. So rather than make an attempt to understand how a respected member of long standing felt about some of your posts, you just went into school ground bully mode? I actually like you Gravdigr (most of the time). I hail from Kentucky originally, and I really miss it sometimes. It's nice to have a Kentuckian on the Cellar. But one thing my Kentucky father taught me was the importance of good manners and that a man should never act in a disrespectful manner to a woman or use foul language in front of her. I suppose some might call this reverse sexism, but my father was old school and a true Southern gentleman. These attitudes stood him in good stead for most of his life.
Just my :2cents: for some of you:
:bj2:
That's an illustration of jim's great point of the joy getting sucked out of this place.
Jesus Fuck a Flying Donkey In the Ass Twice on the Sabbath and Cunt Boo Piss.
Did that offend someone? I'm sorry, please to shove it up your ass 3 times and call me Poindexter.
It's gotten sooooooooooo ridiculous.
... please to shove it up your ass 3 times and call me Poindexter...
Did I miss something? Was there supposed to be a punishment in there somewhere, Poindexter?
:D
Did I miss something? Was there supposed to be a punishment in there somewhere, Poindexter?
:D
Is it really
punishment if they ask for it? And if they like it?
I see. So rather than make an attempt to understand how a respected member of long standing felt about some of your posts, you just went into school ground bully mode? I actually like you Gravdigr (most of the time). I hail from Kentucky originally, and I really miss it sometimes. It's nice to have a Kentuckian on the Cellar. But one thing my Kentucky father taught me was the importance of good manners and that a man should never act in a disrespectful manner to a woman or use foul language in front of her. I suppose some might call this reverse sexism, but my father was old school and a true Southern gentleman. These attitudes stood him in good stead for most of his life.
When I get poked, I poke back.
Didja read her posts, across multiple threads? There's nothing I could have said to placate Brianna.
As for my retaliatory posting...I was just trying to live down to her expectations. Childish, yes, but, we wouldn't want her to be
wrong in her vitriol, now would we?
Is this image ok?
Perhaps I'm being dense (wouldn't be the first time)
Butt, I am thoroughly confused as to where the "line" is.
Well, as I have said in a number of places, it isn't really the nudie pics that are the problem, as far as I can see. It isn't about the tits per se. It's about the tone of what's being said and shown. And it's about prevalence of such images at any given time. A pic of a sexy chick, no problem. A stream of images of women in prone positions with captions and commentaries that reduce them to disposable objects is more problematic.
It goes back to one of my usual refrains, I think: it's about intent. Who is laughing at whom, and why? What's the basis for the humour, since we're mainly talking about the lulz posters really.
In his poke back at Bri, Grav posted some really nasty examples, which are somewhat more extreme than most of what goes into those threads. I think it's fair to say that he really doesn't usually go in for the nastier ones.
As I said, the other thing is frequency. The threads marked NSFW, are just that: not safe for work. I like pics that aren;t safe for work. I'm intrigued, titillated, horrified, and fascinated turn and turn about. But sometimes, just sometimes, it turns into the NSFWNF thread: not safe for work naked females thread. And it's like that's all there is. Page after page of silicone tits and ass, like a garage wall covered in centrefolds. At which point I think....yeah. This thread isn't for me. It's for the boys, I have no place here.
Mostly it just goes by. This is the world we live in, this is life. But now and again it bothers me. Because it is a continuation of something much bigger and all encompassing about life as a woman. Which is why I completely understood Bri's response to the latest flurry.
I don't know if that makes it any clearer.
ok, stop looking at that guy's wang then
Does anyone else feel like this thread is starting to chase its own tail?
What's the difference between objectification and admiration anyway? Is it simply the fact of knowing the person you're objectifying a little, or even a lot, and even if you don't know someone, can't you admire them without being accused of objectification?
Yeah I know some people (myself included at times) find some of gravs posts pretty crass, but is there anyone on this board who you agree with ALL the time and have never thought to yourself, "wow, I didn't expect THAT"?
We've all had our little bitch or moan or complain. Enough is enough isn't it?
I'm just happy I made Bri laugh. I didn't expect THAT!
I think your question is confusing, classic.
The girl wouldn't need to be posted in nsfw. One might be choosing a dress or a hairstyle. The guy should be posted in nsfw because his sock cock is pretty much out there.
I might post the girl if I were asking for opinions on hair or dress, I wouldn't post the guy because I'm not in the market for men's underwear. I also wouldn't drool and snort and beat off about him because...so what? Maybe if he's really smart and funny I could overlook what they've marketed him for. Other than that: meh.
:lol:
Actually, I agree with you about it going round in circles, Ali. But Classic's post (as with some others) suggested he didn't really get what it was that had annoyed some of us. So, I was trying to explain.
For the record, I don't think Grav is especially bad on this compared with much of what goes on on teh interwebz.
[eta]
What's the difference between objectification and admiration anyway? Is it simply the fact of knowing the person you're objectifying a little, or even a lot, and even if you don't know someone, can't you admire them without being accused of objectification?
I think the difference is, as I've said before, a matter of tone. There's a difference between 'objectifying' someone by suggesting they're good for sex, and 'reducing to an object' by suggesting that's all someone is good for. Some of the pics rely on a shared assumption that women exist for men's pleasure. Rather than on the shared assumption that men take pleasure in women.
ok, stop looking at that guy's wang then
It was never about the tits or the wangs :p
ok, stop looking at that guy's wang then
Which guy's wang? Both the pics I posted were of men.
@Dana -
that was my point.
which guy's wang can you see?
My apologies classic I completely misunderstood your post.
I adore Andrej Pejic. I'd recognize those beauty marks anywhere.
And someday he'll look like this.
Ya'll have given me much to mull over. It seems to me that the problem is that when ever we whittle down a human being to an image, or "object" it makes it easier to be emotionally distant from the object. And then to treat the object as sub human, and this leads to bad stuff in our society. Soldiers do the same thing, our job is to break shit and kill people. Much easier when those people are Jerries, krauts, towel heads, dirties..I think you get the idea.
Some would say then that porn, soft porn, pictures of tits and ass etc...lead to bad stuff in our society. I would say that it's not so true. It's just that the guys that are in the mental space to mistreat women are in to the objects of porn, soft porn and picts of tits and ass.
So, where do we draw the line, and how do we know what is really going on? I like the female form just as much as the next guy, can't deny that women are freaking sexxy. Doesn't mean I'm an abusing womanizer. I don't know Grav other then what he posts on here, his personal life is not my business.
Everyone views this stuff through their own mental and emotional lens.
I guess that's all I have to say about that.
IMHO....
Sometimes a woman wants to be all sexy and stuff. Then it is (probably) okay to look at her and treat her as sexy. (Unless she's drunk or has "issues" or whatever, then you're taking advantage. Bad play.)
Sometimes she wants to explain her new interpretation of quantum physics or a proposal for functional healthcare. At that time, the comment, "Nice tits" is not appropriate.
Learning to tell the difference and act accordingly is what separates the men from the boys.
Hahahah. Outstanding response Zen.
...Learning to tell the difference and act accordingly is what separates the men from the boys.
If only Penn State had learned that.
IMHO....
Sometimes a woman wants to be all sexy and stuff. Then it is (probably) okay to look at her and treat her as sexy. (Unless she's drunk or has "issues" or whatever, then you're taking advantage. Bad play.)
Sometimes she wants to explain her new interpretation of quantum physics or a proposal for functional healthcare. At that time, the comment, "Nice tits" is not appropriate.
Learning to tell the difference and act accordingly is what separates the men from the boys.
Ok, wise one... explain this one:
why do women wear low cut tops and then get pissy if they catch you peeking at the cleavage?
I've never had an issue with peeking. Or looking. Or being checked out.
But when a man looks only at my breasts and not at my eyes I find it creepy. Ditto looking at breasts more often than eyes.
And trust me, I have had this reaction when conservatively dressed.
It's as disrespectful as the lazy teenage staff in a shop who don't bother looking at you, except with sexual overtones.
Peeking, or staring?
PEEKING.
it's like a twisted little game you play. and GOD FORBID you slip your hand inside her blouse, lean her back over her chair and french kiss her.. then all hell breaks loose!
[YOUTUBE]vJ0M2UAR8b0[/YOUTUBE]
It's simple, really, Grav.
Give that bitch some respect.
Bitches like respect.
We do. And massive cocks.
I figured it was worth repeating.
Louis CK on the Daily Show. The full interview. It's funny, and relevant to the thread.
[YOUTUBE]7P8Jbll7tjs[/YOUTUBE]
first half (romney/bain) :D
second half (louis c k / feelings) :D :D :D