WI Recall

Is this the point at which the side that looses claims the other side cheated?

Looks like a close one!

HAAAAAAA! Take that you Union Liberals....

Well how about that...


http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/guvrace06-ku5ld5b-157364555.html

.

Looks like the independent voters made the difference.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/unions-are-clear-losers-in-walker-victory-565l09i-157377275.html

I have no idea what you are writing about.
Over here, the Women's Institute are well respected for their tea, cakes and preserves.

Nice to see him happy about something, though, isn't it? ;)

Down here, the Country Women's Association can turn on the high tea and scones, make sandwiches for 800 firefighters, and/or sandbag the schoolhouse against the flood.

Sometimes on the same day.

My Mum is Oz-side right now.
She could do all of the above. And clean toilets to the extent you could eat stew out of them. Well, bleach stew...

Having seen the Daily Show this week, I now have some idea of what's been going on in Wisconsin. Interesting political shennanigans.

Basically, under the recall rules the elected guy can be made to refight the election if enough people want a recall. By enough, they mean a fairly small percentage of those who elected him in the first place.

So, having lost the election, in an apparent fit of pique, the democrats decided to force a recall about a year after the original election. Thus imposing on Wisconsin the disruption and expense of a second election, in order to return ...the same result as the first.

[eta] Just checked as was a bit vague on the details, but these were the Governor elections (gubernatorial?)

I want to know is if Yon Yonson voted. That's the only vote that matters.

Wisconsin: another state you couldn't pay me to live in, along with FL and GA.

I can barely stand living in OH.

DanaC;814202 wrote:

Having seen the Daily Show this week, I now have some idea of what's been going on in Wisconsin.

THAT made me lol.

Hye, I thought it was nice and clear coverage. As a furriner, I need someone to explain it in terms I understand. And satirists give that best :P

To play my partisan part, I have to point out that "fit of pique" here means "weeks of massive protest in the capitol and other major cities across the state following a massive union-busting effort". The pro-union groups protesting in/around the state house were huge news for a while.

No prob Dana. I just found the statement funny. Especially from a person of your experience and intelligence. A comedy show explained a pretty detailed political situation to your understanding - says a lot.

I'm sick of the divisive politics. I would hope that after narrowly winning a recall election, the governor would learn some humility and try not to utterly destroy his political opposition. It would be nice if he would take this as an opportunity to learn to look for common ground with the opposition so that the state of Wisconsin can go forward in unity. I fully expect him to consider this a mandate and he will redouble efforts to crush and destroy his political rivals.

I'm really glad I don't live in Wisconsin, but in many ways, this is a microcosm of the USA as a whole. Moderates like Olympia Snowe are rapidly going extinct.

Our own representative has been phoning it in for the last decade and should really be replaced. There's a primary next week, and I can vote for a new young guy to replace him on the ticket. At first I was all excited about that, but the young guy sells himself as a "progressive warrior." He brags about how he's going to fight the Republicans ruthlessly. www.progressivewarrior.com I don't want that.

Although Walker won, the D's taking that last senate seat should pretty much hamper and "crushing or destroying."
Nothing is going to get rubber-stamped anymore. No one really has the power.
Mostly, they'll just get a lot of bickering and blaming back-and-forth about who is blocking what and and the end result with be that not much, if anything gets done. Just what we need - more inaction at the constituents expense :/

You've been following it more closely than me.

Gridlock is good, when the alternative is one side screwing the other.

@ Ibs, ok, yes, I was perhaps a touch glib there.

But, much as I sympathise with the left generally and the embattled unions in particular, they really shot themselves in the foot with this, it seems.

I'm uncomfortable about the whole recall system. Honestly, I think you should pretty much have to do something illegal. Or if unpopularity is the measure it needs to be a lot more robust. The number of people supporting a recall should be much higher imo. It is far too open to games.

Also, they really should have waited. They totally mistimed it. It takes longer for people to lose patience with an incumbent after an election.

Perhaps, but on the whole, the various recalls worked - without the state senate, Walker can no longer run roughshod over the unions. The damage done is done, but further damage will be opposed.

From what I know, its not definite yet. I think the R's are gonna call for a recount or whatever.
That last seat was lost by a pretty small margin. The final vote totals were:

Lehman D: 36,255
Wanggaard R: 35,476

This would switch control of the State Senate to the D's. Four state senators were under recall, and Wanggaard was the only one to not hang on to his seat.
Still, this is only until November as 16 seats in the Senate are up for re-election as well as all 99 in the Assembly.

DanaC;814269 wrote:

@ Ibs, ok, yes, I was perhaps a touch glib there.

But, much as I sympathise with the left generally and the embattled unions in particular, they really shot themselves in the foot with this, it seems.

I'm uncomfortable about the whole recall system. Honestly, I think you should pretty much have to do something illegal. Or if unpopularity is the measure it needs to be a lot more robust. The number of people supporting a recall should be much higher imo. It is far too open to games.

Also, they really should have waited. They totally mistimed it. It takes longer for people to lose patience with an incumbent after an election.

At the same time, we look at you crazy parliamentary democracies and go, whaddaya mean the whoever can dissolve the thingie whenever he pleases, whaddaya mean vote of no confidence. I kinda see this as a similar structure.

Yeh, I wasn't commenting on 'The American Electoral System'. It was a wider point about recalls. Which we also have at local government level and which various people are proposing should be brought in at national level.

Happy Monkey;814270 wrote:

Perhaps, but on the whole, the various recalls worked - without the state senate, Walker can no longer run roughshod over the unions. The damage done is done, but further damage will be opposed.

Good point.

Recalls cost little. That was not the shocking discovery in WI. Today, rich extremists on all sides now spend money far in excess of what was spent on general elections. Because purchasing politicians was made legal by the Supreme Court. This is the monstrosity that Sen John McCain warned everybody of. And it will only get worse.

Very little money was spent on the recall. Massive sums were spent filling the airwaves with emotional shrill and lies. Because that is how governments are bought and sold.

A second problem also exists. The average American now has a reduced standard of living as we currently pay for Mission Accomplished, the protecting of bin Laden, welfare to big pharma, and other boondoggles. Organizations that have contracts based upon last year's standards of living are under attack. The numbers have been posted repeatedly comparing incomes of under 35 year olds in 1992 with those a decade later. In Wall Street Protests .

Economics is now punishing all Americans for foolishly loving military expeditions for no purpose and for 10 years. For listening to emotional shrills rather than think logically. These same confrontations between Americans occurred in the late 1970s because Nixon (another scumbag president) also spent money in 1968-1970 on a war that also had no purpose. (IOW for the greater glory of Nixon.)

We must now attack one another rather than address the only reasons for a reduced American standard of living. Wisconsin is simply another example of what must happen. And how things will only get worse.

glatt;814260 wrote:

Gridlock is good, when the alternative is one side screwing the other.

:thumb:

Happy Monkey;814270 wrote:

The damage done is done, but further damage will be opposed.

Pure fantasy. Calif of all places just voted to turn back the amount of money they give the unions in bennies. It is a reality of our near future and long over due. The veil has been lifted.

TheMercenary;814428 wrote:

Pure fantasy. Calif of all places just voted to turn back the amount of money they give the unions in bennies. It is a reality of our near future and long over due. The veil has been lifted.

How would you feel about turning back the amount of money promised to other public employees in bennies? Do you think that's long over due too?

Here's a hint. It's a trick question. I am thinking about retired military service members' pensions and benefits. They were public employees once too. Your thoughts?

The “Overpaid Union Workers” boondoggle is based on another boondoggle - “Americans are middle class.” Seriously, talk to anyone. Almost everyone in America believes they are “middle class.” From trailer parks all the way to summer homes in Gulf Shores, they’re all “middle class,” if you ask them. This is because they don’t want the “shame” of being poor, but they also don’t want the “elitism” of being rich.

The truth is, the majority of Americans are not middle-class. Most Americans are poor. Maybe not impoverished, but poor. But so long as they think of themselves as being middle-class, suddenly those union people, oh boy, they’re living life on a luxury cruise, aren’t they?

It’s one lie, built on top of another. We have to knock down the underlying lie; as this graphic is trying to do. The trick is to expose that most Americans are NOT well-off or living comfortably.

And if they are “well off”, see how leveraged they are. Subtract their debt [borrowed money, student loans, mortgage, credit cards] from their assets and there is a lot of NEGATIVE NET WORTH out there.

The middle class needs to remember the pizza analogy:


Three guys order a ten slice pizza. The first guy opens the box, takes nine slices, and then says to one of the two remaining guys “watch out for that union asshole, he’s trying to steal YOUR slice.”

link

This is not the graphic refered to above.

TheMercenary;813955 wrote:

Is this the point at which the side that looses claims the other side cheated?

No, not cheated. However...

TheMercenary;814005 wrote:

Looks like the independent voters made the difference.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/unions-are-clear-losers-in-walker-victory-565l09i-157377275.html

I think what motivated the folks in the middle was the record amount of money used to persuade and dissuade. And I think the proportions of the money raised and spent reflect the outcome. Check this out.

Put together, the two campaigns and independent groups have spent more than $63.5 million so far, with out-of-state contributors supplying the vast majority of the campaign funds.

...

Many high-dollar donations have come from anti-union billionaires including Dick DeVos, David Koch, and Sheldon Adelson. Walker’s top three contributors contributed more money to his campaign than Barrett’s campaign has collected overall.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/06/04/wisconsin-recall-election-breaks-states-political-spending-records/#ixzz1xVt7qkmV

Money is power. Money is speech in a context like this. More money means more speech. I'm not saying the voters of WI can't think for themselves, but that makes for a LOT of persuading. Walker's campaign outspent Barrett's campaign by about 8 to 1. That's gonna make a difference.

TheMercenary;813967 wrote:

Looks like a close one!

Here ya go mercy!

Enjoy!

Glad the voters came down on the right side of the issue.