Sexual Imorality
At what point is sex a sin?? If you are single and never been married is it ok to have sex?? Or is Sex a special thing reserved for marriage. Me personally I don't plan on getting married, never have never will. So dose that mean I can never have sex?? Or Am I just DOOMED to masturbate my life away?? Honestly I've tried it a few times and I don't really feel a need to do it. An I have written and said a few things about it that may be controversial. SO whats YOUR opinion. Is SEX necessary?
qcc??
Masturbating was considered for a long time the sin of Onan.
Whereas in reality the sin of Onan was the withdrawl method.
Or, more literally, not ejaculating inside your brother's widow when God had specifically told you to.
It happens more often than you might think.
Your "beating around the bush" and not addressing my question... maybe your just being sarcastic. Me personally I don't think sex is necessary though I might try it a few more times to see if I really like it or not.
Not everybody wants or needs sex. I know a few asexuals. I don't understand it, at all, but if it doesn't push your buttons it doesn't push your buttons. If it does, by all means go for it. I don't see how sex can ever be a bad thing as long as all parties involved engage in it consensually and everyone is on the same page about what it means and what they want from the experience.
And as long as birth control is strictly adhered to, preferably multiple methods at the same time.
I was about 7 when I first heard this song.. There's a place in france where the naked ladies dance there's a hole in the wall where the men can see it all but the men don't care cause there in there underwear...
JBK-expand your horizons: post in Nothingland once in a while.
I thought it went:
There's a place in France
Where the alligators dance...
I didn't know that there were any naked ladies involved.
At what point is sex a sin??
If you ain't trying to make babies, you're going to hell.
:neutral:
If you ain't trying to make babies, you're going to hell.
Really?? Even if you are married?? Where do you get your information from....
this is the biggest joke I've ever seen... and it's not funny it's ridiculousness gone wild...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBz8pZd341s&feature=youtu.beA lot of western religions are very negative about sex, but I'm pretty negative about a lot of western religions.
Non-religious people generally think that sex is a normal healthy part of being human. It causes certain pleasurable brain chemicals to be released, and in cases of ongoing relationships, the mutual pleasure is very important in reinforcing the pair bond. It is good for your emotional, mental and physical health.
Non-religious people generally think sex is fine, or even very good, provided that everyone involved is a consenting competent adult. There is nothing at all immoral about two (or more :D ) people doing something they like together.
In a lot of cases, people (especially males) with mental illnesses experience low or zero sexual urges. It just doesn't come up (hehehe). So, JB, if you're not feeling the urge, don't worry. Carry on with life.
Seriously, do some painting. Make model airplanes. if you can, go play with a puppy.
... Is SEX necessary?
Without it I'd be just an obon.
if you can, go play with a puppy.
*grimace*
At what point is sex a sin?
A guy from the Bronx has an incredibly debauched weekend, he is pretty much wasted from Friday afternoon up till Sunday morning when he goes to church to confession. As he's sitting there in the confessional, he is trying to piece together the lewd and lascivious events of the weekend in order to make a full confession. There are certainly some blank patches but what he does remember gets him a penance that he'd need to take a few weeks off work to perform. He spends the rest of the day with a hangover beginning his penance for his wanton, lust filled weekend.
The next morning on his way to work, the guy is wondering if maybe his local parish priest might have been a little overboard with the penance. He decides to duck into a small church in the East Village to confess his sins again. He recounts his weekend to the priest. The priest is quiet for a few moments and tells him, "God is forgiving. Say three Hail Marys, and put 10 bucks in the poor box." Surprised and a bit puzzled the guy tells the priest that he confessed the esact same sins to his priest in the Bronx and was given a penance of outrageous magnitude.
The priest nods knowingly and then says, "Ahhh, what do they know about fancy fucking up in the Bronx?"
Really?? Even if you are married?? Where do you get your information from....
K-Mart.
[YOUTUBE]817t1wHxkaU[/YOUTUBE]
At what point is sex a sin?? If you are single and never been married is it ok to have sex?? Or is Sex a special thing reserved for marriage. Me personally I don't plan on getting married, never have never will. So dose that mean I can never have sex?? Or Am I just DOOMED to masturbate my life away?? Honestly I've tried it a few times and I don't really feel a need to do it. An I have written and said a few things about it that may be controversial. SO whats YOUR opinion. Is SEX necessary?
qcc??
I gather from what I've read of your posts that you're a fairly conservative Christian person - so I'd have to say - your doctrine defines this point pretty clearly. Paul said in 1 Cor 7:9 - But if they can't control themselves, they should go ahead and marry. It's better to marry than to burn with lust., and then in
1 Thessalonians 4:4 that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable.
Basically sex is reserved for the sanctity of marriage (according to the Christian faith), and anything done outside of marriage, is a sin. Old Testament teachings indicate that masturbation is also a sin, because it 'spills the seed' of Man on the ground, eliminating the source of life. (Although there is debate as to whether or not those laws still apply now that Jesus has been here).
Personally - I don't believe that what I do in my bedroom is governed by G-d - nor His followers. I'm comfortable with my life, how I've lived it, and where I am now. In order to be comfortable with yourself, you have to reconcile your actions with your beliefs. If you strive to live the Word - no sex for you. If you believe it's an interpretation - well, time to interpret.
I'd like to know what exactly it is in the human mind that makes so many organised religions so uptight about sex, and intent on controlling it.
Control sex and you control the reproductive future of the faithful.
Control sex and you control more than their reproductive future - you control their conscience and their self-worth. If you make sex a moral issue, then - since almost everybody is driven to some degree or another by sexual urges - you give yourself that much more of a hand in controlling their lives.
I think the only common thread between the world's religions - the unifying factor - is that they are ways to organize and control human action, and controlling sex is the number one way to control everything else humans do.
they are ways to organize and control human action
I think most are just trying to get people to control themselves..
Life by the Spirit
13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[b] 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
If I ever get to the point of going postal...what I'll do is go to some gay parade and blow em all away..
If I ever get to the point of going postal...what I'll do is go to some gay parade and blow em all away..
for that ^^^ you should be banned and reported.
yuuuup. get him gone. that sure sounds like a final straw to me.
Threatening mass murder, especially the destruction or annihilation of a minority? that's acceptable nowhere.
In fact, i think the mods might want to report his IP and any identifying information to law enforcement, but I might be being a little sensitive.
That was my point when I said "reported."
Oh. Yeah, then I definitely agree. I figured you meant "report post", which I also did.
my email is [email]aeropostal33@gmail.com[/email]
And if you were a true american you would respect the postal service. And take that as a really bad joke. If Chris Rock can make bad jokes about raunchy sex then I can make bad jokes about abstinence. And It wasn't a threat is was warning. Through out 'history' the repercussions of a society turning homosexual is hittious.. I don't have a problem with gay people at all, but it only takes on bad apple to ruin the bunch.
If I ever get to the point of going postal...what I'll do is go to some gay parade and blow em all away..
I don't believe this is appropriate for this board.
Neither is shouting "Fire" in a crowded theater......
I hope you "enjoy" your (next) spell in the penitentiary.
If I said, man, next time I get pissed off, I'm gonna go find some christians and bust some heads, JB, is that a joke? No, it's a threat of fucking violence aimed at a group, for their identity, in an effort to TERRORIZE them into submission.
You've said before you "used to" be a "terrorist". Hate crimes are terrorism, plain and simple, meant to use fear to browbeat the targeted population into doing what you want. You, sir, just threatened a hate crime and an act of domestic terrorism, and deserve to be on every fucking terrorist watch list the FBI has.
You should leave, now, and quickly, before you say something that will REALLY land you in prison.
So now I'm going to go to jail for threatening to go postal on gay people.. see that's the problem.. you people stand up for the little guy which is good, me I'm making big guys loose. Point Being that you are taking your Constitutional Right to be a fool and using it to make the constitution a nut rag. To me that is not right. I fight for what I believe and I believe in my country. If you were really worried about what was going on in the country you'd keep homo stuff to your self or get help because homo sexuality is a desiese. Just like alcoholism is a desiese.
You've said before you "used to" be a "terrorist".
I called the FBI and confessed to everything, they said it was freedom of speech. ANd did Nothing.
It's Red October Blue Dawn.
Take the R'ed pill I go way. Take the B'lue pill who cares everyone has sex and we live happily ever after....
IF you can't handle the waves stay on the beach.
If I said, man, next time I get pissed off, I'm gonna go find some christians and bust some heads
and that's exactly what Muslims do.. you can't get mad at me because I'm curious.. hey for all I know I am gay but I rather not cross that line. It just rubbs my beliefs the wrong way. Keither Sutherlan made a movie and the terrorst suceeded in blowing up a nuke.. should we have him arrested for failure to communicate because that's all this is..
So now I'm going to go to jail for threatening to go postal on gay people..
I sure do hope so. Threatening to go postal on ANYBODY is definitely the police's business. Threatening to go postal on a specific social, ethnic, or cultural group, specifically because of their identity, is the FBI's business, because that is the very definition of terrorism and hate crime. We have it from your own mouth, now, that it's an actual, credible threat. You just said so yourself. Saying "i should be allowed to go postal on groups I don't like" doesn't make it better, it makes it worse.
I sure do hope so. Threatening to go postal on ANYBODY is definitely the police's business. Threatening to go postal on a specific social, ethnic, or cultural group, specifically because of their identity, is the FBI's business, because that is the very definition of terrorism and hate crime. We have it from your own mouth, now, that it's an actual, credible threat. You just said so yourself. Saying "i should be allowed to go postal on groups I don't like" doesn't make it better, it makes it worse.
this coming from someone who has done what?? for their country....
look pal there burning down churches overseas in the name of ala.. I have to take the road that leads to security.. and one thing you will find out about me Is that I am honest.. And brutally honest.. your best bet fok the gay pride shit and stay out of the way of people who are "legitimately" trying to make a difference.
I sure do hope so. Threatening to go postal on ANYBODY is definitely the police's business.
When they come beating down my door they won't find drugs, they won't find guns, they will find some paintings and my web site and I will tell them,
what's the point in haveing a penis, if your going to be a punany.
This is an international forum, by the way. Many non-Americans post here, It's not about being American, it's about being human. And I suspect many Americans on here would like to disown you right about now.
this coming from someone who has done what?? for their country....
look pal there burning down churches overseas in the name of ala.. I have to take the road that leads to security.. and one thing you will find out about me Is that I am honest.. And brutally honest.. your best bet fok the gay pride shit and stay out of the way of people who are "legitimately" trying to make a difference.
What have you done for "your country"? Your country imprisoned you -I don't think it likes you very much......
I've worked for the government overseas at one of our diplomatic missions as support staff. It's not much but it's something. I even worked in the security office keeping our people safe over there. What've you done for your country besides poison it with hate and theocratic dogma?
It is by grace I have been saved so that I cannot boast in my own works...
promoting qwerks: "simulation terminated"
There is not a Christian cell in your body. i think you're a closet muslim.
and you've met me how many times???
one too many
how many times have you met Ibram?
We both need to stop feeding the troll til the banhammer hits, mon. As hard as that is.
JB ... I called you out on your BS from almost day one.
Others were more lenient and wanted to give you time.
All you have done since then is repeatedly proved you are not fit for society.
God willing, I hope they lock you up with the ghey version of Mr T as your cellmate.
Classic: Rape is NEVER funny. not even prison rape. Watch it.
The religious crap I can stomach. The odd communication style I'm fine with. But this rampant homophobic nastiness is horrible and it has no place on this board.
We have, JBKlyde, been very tolerant as a community of your particular foibles and problems. The flipside of that is that we expect some tolerance from you.
Ibs is a valued, and I would even say much loved member of this community. I feel sickened and insulted on her behalf by the things you've said here.
I no longer wish to accomodate your peculiarities. I want you gone.
[eta] Fucking Christofascist.
[YOUTUBE]47P59ha9k9s[/YOUTUBE]
JB, I'm not happy.
You've been going on about searching for the truth.
You must remember that your answer is an answer that works for you, but it is not a universal truth and it doesn't work for a lot of other people. You believe it on faith because it provides you with an answer to live by. But faith is a personal thing and so your religion and your answers are personal too.
Which means none of us can expect other people to take our religions as seriously as we do. And that means that you can't expect other people to live by your religion's rules.
But when people make a society, as they go along they agree to certain rules. One of the rules of most modern societies is that hate speech is not okay. and using your religion as an excuse for abusing, threatening or insulting people is not okay.
I'm pretty sure that applies here in the cellar.
Please apologise to Ibram.
please don't apologise, jbk. we're a little past that. if you apologise it will only be forced and hollow. I'm still just waiting for the banhammer to drop.
jbk can (and he should) apologize any time he likes. forgiveness for the being offended by his remarks is yours to grant or not; your choice.
I'm curious, will you feel better if he's banned?
Yeah, actually, I will. People who threaten violence like that have no place in this community. I would say the same if it was niggers or spics or towelheads he was after instead of us faggots.
We've often used the example of the pub or coffeeshop for our community. Someone comes in, knocks over everyone's drinks, pukes everywhere, whatever the metaphor was, we say no, not in our cafe. We have a standard of decorum and social atmosphere that, if you come in here and shit all over, we reject.
This isn't some asshole coming in and being an intolerably annoying oaf. This is some asshole coming in and telling us all how he wants to literally kill people. Some asshole coming in and spreading violence and hate. Some asshole literally threatening domestic terrorism. He admitted himself that it was a threat. I think that's solidly in bannable territory.
I hope you feel better, regardless, Ibram.
By your own assessment about *not* being an intolerably annoying oaf, he's not breaking that cellar rule. We do have standards, I agree. We have a very wide range of interactions and opinions here. And according to those standards we have wide range of responses to those comments. It's important to use the right response for the right situation. I don't believe banning is the right response for what I've read from JBK.
***
I feel compelled to add that I find homophobia, racism, hatred, prejudice, deliberate ignorance and intolerance wrong in word and in deed. My position in this current situation is not in any way support for what he's saying; I am supporting his opportunity to say it.
I think your all just over reacting. If America is the melting pot why do people get so mad every time I stir it.
I feel compelled to add that I find homophobia, racism, hatred, prejudice, deliberate ignorance and intolerance wrong in word and in deed. My position in this current situation is not in any way support for what he's saying; I am supporting his opportunity to say it.
I seriously doubt anybody suspected, even for a moment, that you supported those views, V.
I am sorry if I offended anyone I will lake the lessons I learned on this message board and apply them to the next board I am exiled to.
What lessons have you learned?
I think your all just over reacting. If America is the melting pot why do people get so mad every time I stir it.
Good question, here's why.
When you say stupid shit, you attract attention to yourself. When you say really stupid shit, repeatedly and loudly, you attract LOTS of attention to your stupid comments. When you drape yourself in stupidity, people can't see anything else, even if there is a reasonable person underneath.
And when I say "you", I mean anybody. But in this case, I mean you. That you say you would "off all the people at a gay pride parade", that qualifies as really stupid shit, and you repeated it, you've draped yourself in stupid shit. What else is there for us to see? What *should* we be reacting to?
I'm not gay. Aparentaly everyone here is... and that's why the communications gap. I don't expect you to see anything I'm here for the good times not to get caught up in some lost world.
By the teachings of Christ, Ibram is blessed:
Luke 6:22
Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you [from their company], and reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
By the teachings of Christ, JB is instructed:
Luke 6:37
Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
I am sorry if I offended anyone I will lake the lessons I learned on this message board and apply them to the next board I am exiled to.
Why not try what our Aussie Aboriginal Friends might call "going walkabout?" (doing so metaphorically, I mean)
There are many experiences to be had in the world. Have some. Perhaps you will gain insight from these self-defining experiences.
There may be a BBS that will be more in line with your beliefs and needs to be discovered.
that qualifies as really stupid shit
I totally agree, but don't I have that right.. one mans junk is another mans treasure.. and besides that I really like the cellar.. I think Ibram is a great person (despite our differences) I do not doubt you guys have superior talents, it's just that I am a diagnosed skitzo/bipollar who is just now getting to the point where I am stable... I am trying to "integrate" myself back into society and this place has been a real help..
There may be a BBS that will be more in line with your beliefs and needs to be discovered.
On the one hand, I'm all for punishing threats of violence, but on the other, I'm leery of sending a person with mental instability off in search of a forum where threats of violence against gays are not discouraged.
On the gripping hand.... I got nuthin.
To Ibs metaphor ... I see it as JB came into the coffee shop screaming and ranting and slapped a gun down on the table threatening to shoot.
Thats a little bit, IMO A LOT, over the line. Perhaps a time out at least.
Almost. More that he came into the coffee shop with a sandwich board proclaiming hellfire and damnation, screaming and ranting and claiming he has a gun at home, honest, and he's not afraid to use it.
claiming he has a gun
I never claimed to have a gun.. your just playing on fear.. trying to manipulate the .gov either way I'm from the gun shine state.. I saw people down loading kiddy porn and when I called the fbi they ran away..
Never said it was a good metaphor.
maybe I just need to be filled in on the 'rules' of this society..
Rule for this society: "I just might kill someone" is not a good joke.
Rule for yourself: A society where "I just might kill someone" is a good joke is not a good society to be in.
Metaphors do not work well when there is a disease involved in which concrete interpretation of metaphorical statements is a common symptom.
(if you've ever had a therapist ask you to explain proverbs, they're testing for schizophrenia)
I'm not gay. Aparentaly everyone here is... and that's why the communications gap.
Correction: not everyone here is
ƒucking crazy. You are, but that's excusable. You're stupid, too. Also excusable. The poorly conveyed, even more poorly understood Christian claptrap, also excusable. Put them all together and you still pass the threshhold afforded by our collective sense of pity mixed with morbid fascination and insuppressible laughter.
However, there is a line.
You've crossed it, in case you hadn't noticed.
You are truly, deeply, and possibly irrevocably, what is known as a real "piece of shit" human being. It doesn't make me feel good to tell you this.
But maybe, just maybe, upon receiving the verbal equivalent of being smashed directly in the ego with a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick, you'll say to yourself "Hey, I ƒucked up bad. I need to reexamine my shit, like deep down, to the darkest nooks and crannies of my malformed abortion of what passes--these days--for a human soul."
You think you're better than anybody? Because you can parrot childish fairy tales from a mediocre, 2,000 year-old self-help book? Get a ƒucking clue, if you're able (which I doubt). You can hide behind whatever books you like, it won't "fix" what's broken inside you.
You haven't just misspoken, you've revelaed your true colors.
A stupid metaphor.
I disagree and again, stand by my statement. YMMV
You think you're better than anybody? Because you can parrot childish fairy tales from a mediocre, 2,000 year-old self-help book? Get a ƒucking clue, if you're able (which I doubt). You can hide behind whatever books you like, it won't "fix" what's broken inside you.
I BLEED red white and blue..
"Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's" (Matthew 22:21).
The red, white and blue are Caesar's. Do not be overly bothered by the earthly authority of government.
I agree with Flint. JBK is a piece of shit. But, unlike JB, shit can be useful.
I BLEED red white and blue..
So long as you are bleeding, that's all that matters.
Violence begets violence.
Seems to be.
You know, like the aristocrat kind, not the hillbilly kind.
No offense to aristocrats or hillbillies, mind you. :rolleyes:
Violence is kinda offended, tho'.....
Well Apparently America got slavery wrong too, so how much credit do we give the constitution... He made a very good point. One that I don't know how to explain except to say that enlightenment is impossible without darkness. :Wisdom excels folly as light excels darkness: The Jews 'Gods Chosen' were slaves themselves to Egypt. And a Slave is only a Slave to what has mastered him. All things are permissible but not all things are beneficial. We are not in the dark ages anymore. Society, specifically America, is progressing. And I will be mastered by nothing.
I think that's possibly the most lucid answer I've seen you give.
Yeah, actually, I will. People who threaten violence like that have no place in this community. I would say the same if it was niggers or spics or towelheads he was after instead of us faggots.
So you support the presidents latest attack on Christians?
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/30/Obama-White-House-Disassociate-Savage
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/29/Obama-Administration-Dan-Savage
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/30/NoH8-Just-Lies-Dan-Savage
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/29/Savage-Visit-White-House
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/04/29/Dan-Savage-Bully
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/29/Meet-Dan-Savage-Santorum
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/30/Cyberbullying-Savage-Santorum-Saddleback
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/30/NSPA-JEA-Denounce-Savage
This IS the Obama Administration. As long as if fits an agenda, as long as a special interest group can be exploited for purposes of re-election and the illusion of inclusion this Administration will exploit it. Now the Obama Administration is directly aligned in a straight line fashion with a Bully of G-L-Bi-Transgendered people. They have embraced this. They own it. I will never let them or others forget. They are scum.
you learn something new every day..
lu·cid   [loo-sid] Show IPA
adjective
1.
easily understood; completely intelligible or comprehensible: a lucid explanation.
2.
characterized by clear perception or understanding; rational or sane: a lucid moment in his madness.
3.
shining or bright.
4.
clear; pellucid; transparent.
Jeez merc, how do you remember all these things you're never going to let anyone forget? I'd have difficulty keeping track.
So you support the presidents latest attack on Christians?
I don't support Obama's attacks on Christians.. he said "America is No Longer a Christian Nation"
Either
A. He's Just a Total Fool
B. He dose not know what he's doing
C. He's the Anti Christ
D. He got Aliens Up his Ass
I miss Bush.
I don't miss Bush.
I will not give Obama a pass as some kind of touchy feely friend of GayBiLesbTrGend people. He is not. His exploiting it for re-election. Period.
dOOd - did you really just quote breitbart? :eyebrow:
Obama Just endorsed same sex marriage. While I don't agree with homosexuality, I think that same sex marriage could be a good thing. But only in the fact that it might just bring the 2 people to a conclusion that faith is something to consider. The same goes for that gay priest in the catholic church. Kind of like turning in to a skid after the car is out of control. You first regain control of the car then recover.
also, lols to your bullshit that gay people can't be people of faith.
faith is something to consider.
Why should the gay community be insulated from the glories of divorce?
Let 'em marry (or unionize or couple or whatever).
As Biden said, a gay couple should enjoy all the same rights, privileges, and liberties as a straight couple. The couple should also 'enjoy' all the same burdens, responsibilities, miseries, and failures.
The failure rate for hetero-marriage is, what?, 50% or more?
No damn reason why gays shouldn't be as self-humiliated as straights.
#
"lols to your bullshit that gay people can't be people of faith"
Question is: why would any one want to be 'that'?
In higher ed, there is a push for benefits for domestic partners. This would not have been an idea except for the fact that gays cannot marry. This is what makes benefits unfair: a couple cannot have the extended family benefits because they cannot marry.
Of course, a straight unmarried couple could not enjoy extended benefits either.
I never thought much about this: the couple times I've lived with someone I wouldn't have dreamed that there should be benefits for domestic partnerships because, let's face it, it's awfully hard to define. Joe and Joann may just be roommates, but can use the same insurance that Mark and Marsha, who are legally married, use. It's really insane when you think how far this can extend. I mean, Homeless Guy Parasite could have been covered under MY insurance. Uh. No. I don't even want that option.
The solution is so obvious I can't stand it. Gays should be able to marry. There should be no difference between ANY kind of married couple or ANY kind of 'domestic partnerships.'
If Joe and Joann, Mark and Marsha, Jim and John, and Blaine and Bill want the economic benefits, they get married.
I don't get why this is such a big deal.
Oh yeah, religious wingnuts who know what is best for everyone.
The real solution to the 'problem' is, of course, the one no one brings up, that being: remove gov sanctioning of marriage, return the event to the religious sphere and leave it there.
Under this scheme: no one gets any financial breaks by way of marriage (and the 'state' gets no licensing fees). If Joe and Jack wanna tie the knot: find a Unitarian Universalist minister, or, go to war with the Roman Catholic Church (or the Jewish or the Islamic Orthodoxies).
Government (those 'in' it) wouldn't (shouldn't) have any say either way (in sanctioning or condemning).
IM, I agree. All united couples should have the same opportunities for benefits and the negatives also.
For example, a very good friend recently lost his partner after a long debilitating illness with much hospitalization and procedures, finally culminating with hospice care in "their" home.
My friend recently told me that he was thankful they weren't legally married. That was the only thing that saved him from complete financial ruin...
Just sharing the other side.
hq:
I almost agree. I think that the government SHOULDN'T recognize marriages - but I think the government SHOULD recognize civil unions.
You wanna get married? go to a church.
You want a civil partnership defined by a legal contract? get a civil union.
Voila!
I almost agree. I think that the government SHOULDN'T recognize marriages - but I think the government SHOULD recognize civil unions.
I agree totally with that. Marriage Defined by the bible is between a man and a woman. I don't think we should cross that line.
No, I meant ALL marriages. The government shouldn't recognize ANYBODY's marriage EVER.
"You want a civil partnership defined by a legal contract? get a civil union."
Better yet: just go to a shyster and have an idiosyncratic contract drawn up between you and your honey, one binding on the two of you, one granting each all the pleasures and burdens of living exclusively with the other and 'forsaking all others'.
With this: the gov (by way of the courts) can act as final arbiter in contract disputes but never as bestower of 'right'.
In fact: most couples (gay or straight) can do this now and cut out the middle man ('government').
Sure: it might cost a pretty penny in shyster fees, but not a one (gay or straight) has to wait for (or, fight for) the nation to 'accept' his or her proclivities.
No, I meant ALL marriages. The government shouldn't recognize ANYBODY's marriage EVER.
that's the perfect example of homosexuals being "faithless".
Nope, JB. You just aren't paying attention to the entirety of what I said.
I said that the government has no business in a religious rite like marriage, and therefore this whole debate would go away if the government would recognize only legal contracts between individuals.
edit: plus, i'm not homosexual, asshole.
hq:
the problem with that is the sheer volume of things that the government recognizes as rights afforded to married couples, that any lawyer's contract can't afford you. Like filing joint taxes, or other tax deductions, or certain domestic violence protections, or important custody norms and rights, or... the list goes on. On top of that, no private institution, like hospitals or schools or insurers, would be legally compelled to recognize a private 3rd-party contract, and could deny those contracted couples the same things they offer to all married couples.
All true, Ib, but ain't nuthin' for free...for every sanction and protection issued by gov there's a price (usually a kind of hobbling of mind, if not body)...most folks (it seems) are willing to be overseen (hell, many folks crave being overseen!) by gov so as to safeguard what you outline above; some ill-fitting pieces, however, willingly (gleefully, even) reject the oversight by gov so as to better go his or her own way.
I speak for at least one of those ill-fitting pieces...*shrug*
And I in no way think that people who want to engage in legal unions without governmental protections of that union shouldn't have the right to go their own way. In fact I think it's fabulous. But you and I clearly fundamentally disagree on the role of government. I think it's there to defend civil and human rights - of which I believe "marriage" or a civil institution with the same role is one of - and to construct a safety net to ensure a minimum quality of life for all citizens. You don't believe that, and that's fine - but I think most people who make up our country agree on those points, even if they disagree what sort of safety net should exist, how high, and how many civil rights should be afforded to the population at large.
"...you and I clearly fundamentally disagree on the role of government."
HA! Ya think?
#
"I think most people who make up our country agree on those points..."
No doubt...I essentially say this with, 'most folks (it seems) are willing to be overseen (hell, many folks crave being overseen!) by gov so as to safeguard what you outline above..."
Me: just offering two solutions in this thread to the 'problem' of gays and marriage...never said either solution was appealing, only that both are options (in particular, the second wherein a couple tells the gov, and society, to go fuck itself).
That many or most may turn a nose up at my suggestions is no nevermind to me.
asshole; it's whats for dinner... :)
Why, jbk? They were having an exchange of ideas. It was a good conversation. No assholes were harmed in the making of those posts. ;)
Infi, for a long time in UK there has been "common-law" marriage. If two people live together as married partners for 6 months (I think), they can claim any rights afforded to the legally married. It works just fine in the main. No need for marriage, no need for declaration of official intent. piss or get off the pot.
(but it's still easier if you actually have that bit of paper)
We had a humanist celebrant at our wedding. They do a lot of gay and atheist weddings in the UK. But they're not official registrars, so we had to pop off to the town hall earlier in the day to sign the official papers. We toyed with not bothering, but it was cheap.....
Why, jbk? They were having an exchange of ideas. It was a good conversation. No assholes were harmed in the making of those posts. ;)
to be fair, i read that as a response to ME calling HIM an asshole.
Infi, for a long time in UK there has been "common-law" marriage. If two people live together as married partners for 6 months (I think), they can claim any rights afforded to the legally married. It works just fine in the main. No need for marriage, no need for declaration of official intent. piss or get off the pot.
I think there are common-law states here?
Yeah, that's a point I hadn't thought of.
to be fair, i read that as a response to ME calling HIM an asshole.
Ahhhh. I gotta stop buzzed tailposting. :blush: