Too big or too small? (nsfw)
What do you think?
Here's the story if you want to know it, but basically it's simply a comparison between runway models and normal to larger sized women.
I like women. I like normal women. The pictures of women in media are often pretty, but when I see a woman of the same size in real life, they look ... bony or fragile. I have an image of healthy that includes CURVES. Flesh, padding, softness, these are womanly characteristics and they are attractive.
Now, having said all that, the physical appearance is secondary to what really constitutes genuine beauty, and that is attitude. There are all kinds, of course, but no amount of physical anything can overcome an incompatible attitude. As Hallmark as it sounds, inner beauty shines through anything, clothes and flesh included. Physical appearance is easier to see from a distance, quicker to notice. And attention counts. If my attention is not caught, I can not learn anything about what's more important inside. I try to withhold judgement about appearance until I can learn more, important things first after all.
A man does not insist on physical beauty in a woman who builds up his morale. After a while he realizes that she is beautiful--he just hadn’t noticed it at first.
I agree completely.
People come in different shapes and sizes.
My daughter looks skinnier than the woman on the left, but that's just the way her body is. She has absolutely no self image hangups and she eats as much as I do. Usually, anyway. Last night, when I pigged out on 6 tacos she only had 3. But normally she packs the food in there just like I do.
We are a tall skinny family. I don't know why. We may be a little more active than most, but my wife is the only one who actually goes out and exercises on purpose. We eat healthy foods, for the most part, but aren't nazis about it.
Anyway, my point is that in the rush to try to accept plus sized models as being normal, sometimes people will criticize skinny models. And that's just as bad as criticizing the ones with curves. I don't want my daughter to ever hear that being skinny is ugly. She is skinny and will probably always be skinny. She doesn't need to hear that.
I'd do either of them. :)
Heck, I'd do both of them. :D
I think the thin one is a bit too thin, but I'm not going to say no to her for it. I'll cook her a nice dinner first.
Just talking about physical attributes here. Once past the initial physical thing, women become more beautiful or more ugly the more I get to know them depending on who they are.
I've always like women with curves. Just my preference. You've seen Mrs. Joe, I have to tell her all the time that the most painted women in history are the voluptuous ones. I have never really got the cultural thing that sexxy women are all stick and thin. Bone is for the dog, MEAT is for the man!
Oh, by the way....the chick on the right in that picture...man...wow..way more hot then that little thing on the left.
what are ya talking about? so many man like larger women, why are woman so obsessed about this? its totally irational b.. wait a minute.
*research*
Hot or not? Men agree on the answer. Women don't.
There is much more consensus among men about whom they find attractive than there is among women, according to a new study by Wake Forest University psychologist Dustin Wood.
The study, co-authored by Claudia Brumbaugh of Queens College, appears in the June issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.
"Men agree a lot more about who they find attractive and unattractive than women agree about who they find attractive and unattractive," says Wood, assistant professor of psychology. "This study shows we can quantify the extent to which men agree about which women are attractive and vice versa."
- source
...that's why.
women are obsessed about this because it is actually
completely rational, given that society favors attractiveness (in all people), but the standards of what counts as attractive in women are a lot more unanimous.
sure both me and Ali can have large fat bellies (i am guessing), but the price she pays for loosing the globally admired guitar shape is a lot bigger then the price i am paying for not having a six pack... because for every man whose going to put that aside and think she's hot for having large breasts (that usually acompany big women) or any other trait, a lot more women are going to look past my belly and think i'm hot for being tall or because of any other trait.
and that... has to suck. i know i sound like an asshole most of the time, but you really have my compassion there - i imagine its like being the only suspect whose a minority member in a police investigation - it might not be your fault but you know your screwed... except that there's someone going over the suspects whenever a man's head turns to another women rather then you.
and i know it can be a genetic nightmare to change: i can tell you that in the boot camp i remember doing the exact same runs other guys are doing, eating the exact same meals with the exact same portions, and while some of them came in with a beer belly that disapeared, and others develop six packs, i barely lost anything, even in an environment where my bad habits have no room of expression. frustrating as hell.
but it ain't no skin color you can raise as a flag, because while in reality different people have to make an extremely different level of affort to achieve the same results, it its not impossible; i did loose the larger portion of my weight eventually (and gained it back since), and i know people who where more overweight then me that became bony little sticks. and that's what makes it all the more both better and worst - it gives you hope, but it also makes it your own fault.
now you can do what i saw sundae do in another thread and tell yourself there's something wrong with those man - small dicks, stupid, bad breath, whatever. you can tell yourself that there's something wrong with those other women. stuff like that would probably make you feel better, but the reality is its neither, and its not something wrong with society either - that's just a bunch of people attracted to a bunch of people.
its something that society deemed unattractive - because of your gender almost unanimously - that you have, that is technically your fault, and a fucking nightmare to change.
and all the expectations of fairness in the world aren't going to make that fair.
p.s.
yea i just sort of jumped to the point where this sort of threads usually lead. just imagine people staring talking about why society thinks this or that are important and me answering them with this post.
'Plus size' models are between sizes 6 and 14?
Weird. Size 14 is borderline, but I don't see how they could consider anything size 12 or under 'plus.'
'50% of women wear a size 14 or larger, but most standard clothing outlets cater to sizes 14 or smaller.'
I don't understand why...most of the clothes I always see sitting on clearance sale racks are size 8 or smaller.
Yeah and that sucks.
Being short and small these days means my clothing choices are slim. Petite departments in my town have really cut back on what they offer, and usually only cater to the geriatric crowd.
It used to be that I could get way with wearing just normal smalls, but now they are too big. I haven't changed, the way they size clothing has.
So long as their cocks stick out past their stomaches, I don't care.
:-)
You should come shopping in Philly, Pico. You'd have vast amounts of sale outfits to choose from!
And I LOVE clearance shopping the best too!
I can drive to the Macy's in Indy - the selection does improve there somewhat, Im just bemoaning the change around here. I used to find a lot at Kohls, but no more.
It's women who make other women feel inferior. It's women who believe that super skinny (and I'm not talking about naturally thin, I'm talking unhealthy super skinny) is best. It's women who fall prey to that type of marketing.
Why? I have no idea. Yes, be in good shape. Yes, be thin or not thin or somewhere in between. What makes you happy in your own skin?
Eating disorders are very real and very destructive, but I know few women who have a completely healthy and positive attitude about their body. There is just so much pressure. Not from men.
And that's all I have to say about that.
:eek:
So long as their cocks stick out past their stomaches, I don't care.
:-)
what? Like... to my sternum?
It's women who make other women feel inferior. It's women who believe that super skinny (and I'm not talking about naturally thin, I'm talking unhealthy super skinny) is best. It's women who fall prey to that type of marketing.
...
There is just so much pressure. Not from men.
I don't buy it. Scroll through the Men's Health "Hottest Women of 2011" results and let me know when you get to one above a size 6... It's true that when shown a
naked chick who is a size 14-18, yes, all men will jump in about how they find her plenty attractive, or even more attractive than the skinny girl with no face. But in the grand scheme of things, the vast majority would choose the one who is a size 4-6, because they're biologically programmed for that ideal hip-to-waist ratio.
Who are the majority of fashion designers, who choose the models for their clothes? Men. (Gay men--who, incidentally, often prefer a more androgynous body shape. This past season on project runway, there was a challenge to design for real women, and one of the men didn't even know what DD meant, and after he was informed he was completely flustered at the impossibility of sewing such a curvy garment.) Who are the majority of digital visual designers, who use photoshop to make that model a little skinnier, sometimes without realizing they've made a farcical picture of a human? Men.
Women don't pressure themselves to be the skinny chick--they hate the skinny chick. Believe me, I know. I can't tell you how many times I've been told to my face by other women, "Ugh, you're so thin!" with complete disgust. On the one hand, yes, they're covering up for their own dislike of their own body, but on the other hand what they really want is not to be magically skinny, because then on some level they know they'd be hated like I am. What they really want is for me to gain weight and be like them. Misery loves company.
Let's face it, men do what they're told. by their mothers, wives, girlfriends, friends and the media.... (in that order) So if they end up single and alone... guess who's dictating their likes......
:bolt:
;) <<<<<<<<<< (for those who need cues........)
Sometimes I feel really naive, because honestly, I am not the woman who has disdain for women who are thin. That my words conveyed that I in some way condoned this disdain...wow. Really?
Because I am the woman who compliments other women all the time. Your hair looks great! I love that color on you. You could wear a burlap bag and look good, girl.
You're so right about the men's magazines though. Their words around here that I've read say that most men don't want that perfection thing. So either they're fibbing, or they don't pay attention to those magazines.
;)
That my words conveyed that I in some way condoned this disdain...wow. Really?
No no, your words didn't convey it. I didn't mean to sound bitchy at you personally. The "too skinny" vibe is just a sore spot with me, I tend to push back on it too hard.
I can understand that. I certainly have sore spots of my own.
But really, I liked your post.
:)
Hey Clodfobble
I think you've approached this question from a perspective different than my perspective, and not just the fact that you're a woman and I'm a man. When I was answering Aliantha's question, I read, and answered it according to my personal feelings about what I find attractive. What I hear in your statement, especially with respect to the magazine and clothing, is that a certain range of physical characteristics are being showcased *for a definite purpose*, to sell something.
And then after that, I feel our opinions are very similar. Here's why. Physical appearance is something that can get my attention, and help me form a first impression. This is true for a woman I see in real life and it's true for a picture of a woman I see in a magazine. I'm a visual person (like most people). But that only goes so far. For there to be a real attraction beyond attention, I need to know more. I would talk to the woman, and see how things turn out from there. I would read the advertisement or article and see how things turn out from there.
The thread title actually says "Too big or too small?" and I think the answer is no to both. Neither woman in the picture is too big or too small. It was just my own thought process that connected "What do you think?" and nakey women to "Let me tell you what I find attractive. Maybe I drove the conversation in that direction, who knows.
But what is attractive, what is too big or too small, those kinds of questions require context. I offered my answer within the context of what I like to see and touch. I would refine my answer if the context were what image increases sales the most.
I'm going to respond to the discussion from my very own personal standpoint and experience.
When I was younger and at my best, I was still a shapely woman, meaning that I was never what anyone would describe as skinny or even thin probably would have been stretching it. Slim maybe at a pinch, but even then I wouldn't have agreed. At the time I felt like I was fat though, and didn't really appreciate the attention i got from men on a real level. Not until a couple of weeks ago when I was having a chat with an old friend who was one of my main party pals back before kids and all when we were both single.
I was saying how she had this pair of hotpants that I was always jealous of when she'd wear them out because she just looked so good in them. Her response to that really made me think. She said, "yeah well, I was always jealous that you were the one men were always buying drinks for and the one being asked to dance."
I'd never really looked at it that way, but i guess it's fair to say that we're all wearing blinders a lot of the time. I always thought she got plenty of attention, but apparently she wasn't feeling the love. We see what we want to see from our own perspective, and in doing so, sometimes we totally miss all the good stuff that's coming our way, and that's a shame.
Over the years, I've come to realise that it doesn't matter how many horny blokes buy you drinks in a club or a pub, it's the one who actually wants to talk to you and get to know you that's worth knowing, rather than the one who thinks he'll get in your pants once he gets you drunk. And it's not the guy that wolfwhistles that matters. It's the guy that notices you having trouble with your groceries and offers to help, and believe me, as far as eye candy goes, it's not usually your typical stud who's doing those things. He's usually the one standing there waiting for you to jump his bones just because he condescended enough to share the same air space with you.
Through the course of my life, I've had men from both sides of the coin, and I can honestly say, that I'd rather be with someone who appreciates me for the beauty you can't see, rather than the one who can't see past the surface. Fortunately, I found a man who loves me for the whole lot, and not just the tits and arse I keep shoving in his face. ;)
... it's the one who actually wants to talk to you and get to know you that's worth knowing, rather than the one who thinks he'll get in your pants once he gets you drunk. ... it's not usually your typical stud who's doing those things.
The Economist once discussed this. The woman wants a man who will be faithful and responsible father to the kids. But she may also want a good fling. The point was that is important for the gene pool and survival of the species. That 20% of kids are actually fathered by someone who is not really their father.
In the early days of matching for kidney transplants, that 20% number was confirmed. What is true today even applied to the so ethical and squeaky clean 1950s. Being desirable (whatever that might mean) only makes both choices easier.
Is the one on the left an adult?
Oh well, 66% of my kids were fathered by someone other than my husband.
:eek:
what? Like... to my sternum?
Sternum?
Damn near killed 'em.
:p:
My current girlfriend is a size 12 FWIW. I tell super skinny chicks to eat a cheeseburger *shrug*
After careful thought, I'd choose the one on the right.
Cause of the two, I reckon she'd be the one who knows how to cook. :D :bolt:
I have a plaque in my kitchen that says, "Skinny cooks can't be trusted!" lol
I suppose I'll have to take it down when I lose all my weight, not that I plan on getting to skinny.
I tell super skinny chicks to eat a cheeseburger *shrug*
And when you do, you're being an ass. *shrug*
And when you do, you're being an ass. *shrug*
Having had periods when I was overly thin and unable to gain weight (along with times when I was the other way around) for various health reasons, I agree.
My youngest niece is tiny. She's started gaining height, and is now quite tall, but she is still very very slim. I suspect she may always be. She eats as much as any 13 year old. And though she mostly eats a healthy diet, she also likes to pack in a cheeseburger when she can. McDonalds seems to be one of her and her friends' regular haunts.
The truth is whatever shape you are as a woman someone will make you feel shit about it, even if that someone is only yourself. Mostly though it's other people. And yes, women can be bitchy and jealous and all that, but men make casual comments all the time about women's body shape either to their faces or in their hearing.
It seeps into every part of our culture. A constant running commentary, of which this thread is part, on what shape of woman is attractive.
Positive, negative, anti-fat, anti-thin, health-related, beauty related, real and fantasy women. All the time, everywhere in every possible public forum, in all media, across the world, how women should look, act, sound, earn, parent, dress, plan their families, shape their bodies.
Do you think men have similar pressures?
No. I think there are pressures on men. But I don't think they are subject to the same level of constant scrutiny and analysis as a gender as women are.
There isn't the same level of cultural anxiety around what makes a man as there is around what makes a woman. Though there is now some anxiety around what is a man, and that makes it seem like a very big question. But the reality is that the question of what is a woman is neverending, always present and only really waxes and wanes in terms of the levels of anxiety and prescription.
Nope.
Well, maybe about careers.
Yeah, I was going to say that men are under pressure to provide an ever-increasing salary, be very handy with tools, and maybe play baseball outside with their kid every afternoon. But I don't think they have to deal with image pressure at all. If anything, they get anti-image pressure, because if you care too much about your image, it's implied that you must be gay.
Think about the sexualising children debate. Is it really a debate about children? or is it actually a debate about sexualising girls? There is absolutely no corresponding debate about sexualising boys.
The question of what is a girl is fundamentally more important to us as a culture than the question what is a boy? That's one of the reasons boys who don't fit the picture become so culturally downgraded. because by not being like a boy they are being 'like a girl'. The emphasis is not on what a boy should be, but what he should not be: ie, like a girl. The core definition involved is ....what makes a girl.
The bigger woman looks more healthy and generally sexy but I wouldn't turn either one away.
No. I think there are pressures on men. But I don't think they are subject to the same level of constant scrutiny and analysis as a gender as women are.
If you refer to the same "men's" magazines that idealize unattainable body types, you'll find plenty of paranoia about hairlines, pecs, and abs. Thing is those are magazines for early twenty somethings, hardly men yet, who are really lost about their place in the world, not having figured out what is truly important to them and are easily swayed by advertising as they come out of the teenage fog of testosterone induced irrationality. The media blitz continues against women though, well past the age they seem to give up on men, Cialis not with-standing.
I don't think those magazines play as prominent a role in young male culture as the equivalent do in young female culture. It's also less all encompassing. It's in the lads mags. But it isn't everywhere they look all the time from their toddler years onwards.
It is hard, but we have to teach our girls to be skeptical of media images. That is just another reason to turn off the tv if you're raising kids.
Don't just turn it off. Throw it out the window.
... and shoot it twice before it hits the ground.
It's OK. Kids are rejecting TV in spades.
http://www.7x7.com/tech-gadgets/how-millennials-are-changing-worlds-media-and-ecommerce
Millennials aged 16-34:
Watch much less TV than other Americans (26 percent v. 47 percent).
What's TV? Do they still have that?
Women are viewed by men as potential breeding partners (Sex Objects)
Men are viewed by women as potential providers (Success Objects)
Or as my friend's step dad says:
"There's two things that make the world go 'round, money and pussy. The money is chasing after the pussy and the pussy is chasing after the money."
Now you can go get an advanced degree in gender studies at some fancy university and put that simple truth in all sorts of fancy terms or you can just acknowledge it and put that bit of wisdom to work in your favor.
Women, that means use your pussy to its highest purpose to find the money to make you comfortable.
Men use your money to its highest purpose to find the pussy that makes you happiest.
It's OK. Kids are rejecting TV in spades.
I dunno...
•But watch many more TV shows on laptops (42 percent v. 18 percent), and other devices.
...
•Like to check out brands on social media sites more than older Americans (53 percent v. 36 percent).
I think they're just getting their ads in different places. And beyond that, some of the differences are just age:
•Are much more likely to be influenced by their friends about where to shop, etc. (70 percent v. 45 percent).
They're comparing young kids to adults, not young kids to an earlier generation when they were also young. Hippies thought they weren't going to let "the man" tell them where to shop either, but now they walk into Target just like everyone else.
Women are view by women as competition.
Men are viewed as men as just another dude.
The women are comparing themselves to the other women... but the men are comparing their woman to the other women, too.
The women are comparing themselves to the other women... but the men are comparing their woman to the other women, too.
Because they are in competition for the same resources. The men also compare their bank accounts with other men by displays of their obvious signs of prosperity and or just plain alpha male behavior.
Women are view by women as competition.
Men are viewed as men as just another dude.
I think that's mostly because we know it's the woman who gets to choose the man she wants.
I'll make my own money, thank you very much.
I guess you'll just have to use your hand. ;)
Don't just turn it off. Throw it out the window.
... and shoot it twice before it hits the ground.
...then finish it off with one behind the speaker.
The bigger woman looks more healthy and generally sexy but I wouldn't turn either one away.
That's what Bill said too... :rolleyes:
I am more likely to be physically attracted to a soft woman, but there are plenty of very attractive women of all sizes in the world.
sent along by a friend on fb
Keira looks like death heated up.
It didn't. But then look at Lousie Brooks. Tastes and fashion come and go. Be happy with who you are, is my advice to us.
More hot skinny chicks from the Roaring 20s hereKeira looks like death heated up.
I would advise her against having her picture taken while wet.
And when you do, you're being an ass. *shrug*
That's fine, I know I'm an ass. Just my opinion, I like girls with some meat on them. Not chicken legs.
But I don't think they are subject to the same level of constant scrutiny and analysis as a gender as women are.
eh hem... height? just sayin.
The scrutiny and judging of others has a lot to do with how much men or women care about certain aspects of themselves. I have noticed that the women who are more likely to judge other women for their outfits and dress are the ones who spend more time ready to 'go out'. The men who are constantly sizing themselves versus other men are more likely to care about being muscular. Women just tend to care more about their body type and dress than men do.
Also, I believe there are two competing standards of beauty for women in the US. There is the stereotypical skinny standard that it prominent in many magazines and fashion and there is also a curvier standard of beauty, which is becoming more popular. I hear both standards are 'ideal' all the time.
Don't just turn it off. Throw it out the window.
the window, the window
the second story window,
high, low, low, high
he threw it out the window!
The scrutiny and judging of others has a lot to do with how much men or women care about certain aspects of themselves. I have noticed that the women who are more likely to judge other women for their outfits and dress are the ones who spend more time ready to 'go out'. The men who are constantly sizing themselves versus other men are more likely to care about being muscular. Women just tend to care more about their body type and dress than men do.
Also, I believe there are two competing standards of beauty for women in the US. There is the stereotypical skinny standard that it prominent in many magazines and fashion and there is also a curvier standard of beauty, which is becoming more popular. I hear both standards are 'ideal' all the time.
Another pearl of wisdom from my friend's FIL is "There's an ass for every seat."
I don't know that this should be about personal taste.
As long as models are healthy then they should be free to ply their trade.
I do think this should be about the fraud of the fashion industry, who make exquisite clothes which are lauded around the world but could only ever, EVER look the same IRL on a woman who has the same frame as a runway model.
It's not high art. It's clothes.
If you can only make clothes as art then you need to drape them on a few sticks and show them in a gallery. Or admit you are making performance art.
If you want to make clothes for women then at least acknowledge the size and shape you are creating for. I'm not saying make clothes for fat birds. Just for healthy women.
And don't think all healthy women are 5'11" and weigh less than 100lb.
I wonder how many fashion designers fit into sample sizes?
:thumb: to Sundae. I can't agree more. The place I first noticed the manipulation of fashion as a man is when Victoria's Secret started putting up sizes on their bras, what fits as a 34B is now a 34C, when in fact it really is still just a 34B. Pissed me off big time as in my younger days I knew my wife's sizes and would easily spend a few hundred dollars on her when I returned from deployments, for her BD or for X-mas. It only got worse. Then they started to call a 34B a 36B when it really was still a 34B. What horse shit.
I see two schools here. There's the proponents for the caveman and then the modern man/woman. They seem to be at odds with each other.
I remember when I was in my early 20's and pregnant, being told by a friend that I should put on a little makeup before my partner came home so I looked 'nice'. I asked her why I didn't look nice without it. She waffled on about some bullshit, but I didn't buy it. I still don't really.
I honestly think men have just as many image pressures as women, it's just that they handle them in different ways, and if you don't think women judge men by their looks and outward appearance then you're blind. And if you don't think men judge each other then you're even blinder. Again, maybe not by the same standards, but it's there.
Why is the rate of suicide across the board almost always higher in men than women? If that's not a sign of pressure I don't know what is.
It didn't. But then look at Lousie Brooks. Tastes and fashion come and go. Be happy with who you are, is my advice to us.
More hot skinny chicks from the Roaring 20s here
The skinny look came in towards the end of WWI - until then buxom was the bare minimum and voluptuous was the ideal. I've read that the rationing during the war kind of forced this ... but this doesn't explain why it stuck on for so long.
I do think this should be about the fraud of the fashion industry, who make exquisite clothes which are lauded around the world but could only ever, EVER look the same IRL on a woman who has the same frame as a runway model.
It's not high art. It's clothes.
If you can only make clothes as art then you need to drape them on a few sticks and show them in a gallery. Or admit you are making performance art.
If you want to make clothes for women then at least acknowledge the size and shape you are creating for. I'm not saying make clothes for fat birds. Just for healthy women.
And don't think all healthy women are 5'11" and weigh less than 100lb.
I wonder how many fashion designers fit into sample sizes?
This, doubled.
I've seen an interview with some fashion designer, pushing the line that they have to use super-thin models because their clothes look best on such bodies.
In that case, sir, you are doing a shithouse job of designing clothes. If they need to be worn by an extreme bodyshape to look good, you've done a bad job.
During the 20's it was very fashionable to be stick thin.
Think about all those flappers in drop waist dresses and waif haircuts. In fact, women even bound their breasts in an effort to make their clothes sit better. No one wanted their beads sliding to the outside of their breasts. That'd just look silly.
argh, evil corporations looking to sell stuff... there choice of models for advertisement has nothing to do with the fact people buy those more frequenetly, its all just there brainwashing attempt! corporations don't want to make money, there just trying to make us feel bad about ourselves..
look, man have less pressure because women have a larger diversity of opinions about what counts as hot (research linked in my post above), and for the same reason the pressure is less affective - i trust that it is a well known fact that man do like scoring and that looks contribute to the suceed rate of that happening - but if you want to be a good looking man, there are a lot of ways you can go, and chances are you already fit a good number of women's profiles.
women don't get that luxery, which i'm sure would have being bad enough if it just stayed about getting men. but at some point in our anthropological past, the beast took a life of its own, and now takes an immense inflouence of the social status of every female from teenhood to menopause.
so which standard is shaping the other one? are women judging themselves based on what attracts man or are man deciding what looks good based on what women scale themselves by?
there was a research published on American Minds suggesting that its more of the later: both man and women where asked to rate people of the opposite sex in either a closed or open setting. the scores women gave man barely changed, but man where a lot more inflouneced by what others - both man and women - thought is attractive. we are not only unanimous in what we find attractive, we are fucking sheepish about it.
TL:DR: science variifies monster's man-hating comment to be completely true.
So men are still just doing what women tell them to do then? lol
So men are still just doing what women tell them to do then? lol
when it comes to what pumps blood to our members, pretty much - men even out the rating they'll give women with all the opinions around them.
so whenever a women points out to her husband/boyfriend another women she thinks is hot, she just changed her husband/partner's taste based on her opinion.
so the next day, when one of them goes to his/her job as a casting director for an advertisement, regardless of which one it is, it will be highly inflounced by what she said.
then that ad shows up on a billboard and some 12 year old girl looking from the back sit of a car driving by, see's this model being glorified and decides she wants to look just like her.
...and the cycle goes on.
so whenever a women points out to her husband/boyfriend another women she thinks is hot, she just changed her husband/partner's taste based on her opinion.
Wow. Men are so easily influenced.
What a bunch of stupids, eh?
No.
In my experience a man never changes his opinion on what is hot and what is not based on his partner's opinion.
He bases it on his penis.
The peter-meter if you will.
YMMV.
really? how often have men disagreed with you when you pointed out that someone's hot?
remember, not asked them if they think she's hot and then told them your opinion, not tested them, just pointed out.
Lots.
I've had very different opinions on who is hot and who's not with the men in my life.
To the extent we have disagreed in fantasy threesome conversations.
Watching tv with different groups of people gives a few interesting indicators. However bitchy women are about other women, if you want a truly bitchy judgemental commentary on women watch tv with a group of lads.
To the extent we have disagreed in fantasy threesome conversations.
interesting.
me and my xwife actually agreed (on DanaC).
so dana if your ever happen to be in canada and are look for a bi-curious women who finds you attractive enough to have sex with but not too threatening to be willing to share her boyfriends withyou, now you know who to contact.
back to topic: your findings contradict the study, more research needed.
As far as the reason women can find a much wider range of male "looks" to be attractive, it's simple, but double-layered. First, what does success (money) look like? Well, it can be a lot of things. The nerd can be very successful and wealthy, or his nerdiness can make him incapable of functioning in a group and thus unable to climb a career ladder in any significant way.
But beyond that, there's a lot of evidence that women choose attractiveness based on pheromones and other genetic traits that have very little to do with how the man actually appears. In one study, they had groups of people mingle in a room after none were allowed to shower or use any body products for a day or so. Then they ranked who they found most to least attractive, and did some blood work... and by and large, people--moreso the women, but both sexes to a degree--were found to have ranked as the most attractive the ones who had the most opposite immune system from themselves. (I'm susceptible to bacterial infections, you're not; I have lots of flu antibodies, you have few--let's get it on!)
Re: Your Ms. Brooks:
She ain't bony, but she could sure use a sandwich.
That said, I would not run from Louise.
I wouldn't get with any of those chicks in the top row. Well, maybe Heidi, if she'd pick up fifteen or twenty pounds. They all look like losing cancer patients.
That whole bottom row looks like a smorgasboard.:yum:
Wow. Men are so easily influenced.
What a bunch of stupids, eh?
No.
In my experience a man never changes his opinion on what is hot and what is not based on his partner's opinion.
He bases it on his penis.
The peter-meter if you will.
YMMV.
My varying mileage:
I have a peter-meter, sure.
What pegs it (pun, what pun?) is a happy, excited turned on woman. If that woman is happy with what she's got, HER OPINION of herself, when that shows, that's attractive. A different woman with the same physical characteristics that is unhappy with herself, not attractive. In a real way, the woman's opinion is a major deciding factor in forming my opinion of what's hot.
To reduce us men to thinking only with our dicks is not accurate. It may well be your experience, but I absolutely promise you, there are many of us out here who think about our partner's opinions.
V, I wasn't suggesting a man is completely led by his penis.
I was trying to counter Trac's statement that if a woman told a man that another woman was attractive, he would agree.
That is not my experience.
Men themselves decide if they find a woman attractive.
Mentally, emotionally, physically, whatever.
I was trying to counter Trac's statement that if a woman told a man that another woman was attractive, he would agree.
That is not my experience.
The correct reply is "Attractive? well ... only so far as she resembles you, darling!"
Watching tv with different groups of people gives a few interesting indicators. However bitchy women are about other women, if you want a truly bitchy judgemental commentary on women watch tv with a group of lads.
OK, so it IS men who make women feel crappy enough about themselves to want to be too thin? Or not thin enough? Or wear too much make up? Or not enough? Or be too short? Or too tall? :rolleyes:
eh hem... height? just sayin.
The correct reply is "Attractive? well ... only so far as she resembles you, darling!"
"She's OK for a car stereo, but I wouldn't want her in my home." :lol:
OK, so it IS men who make women feel crappy enough about themselves to want to be too thin? Or not thin enough? Or wear too much make up? Or not enough? Or be too short? Or too tall? :rolleyes:
My answer to this question was first given to me by a beautiful woman, Elanor Roosevelt. She truthfully reveals who is responsible for making someone feel bad when she said:
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
It is up to me to choose to give that consent or to withhold it. If a man does something and I feel crappy about it, it's because I have chosen to give his actions or words weight (no pun intended). If a woman says something and my daughter feels bad about it, it is because my daughter has chosen to give that person credibility.
I have credibility with my daughter. I may say something that hurts her (may? I have, sometimes on purpose sometimes by accident, sometimes for good sometimes for ill). But the crappy feeling she has is her feeling. Lord knows, I have striven to inculcate in her a realistic sense of her own worth, one that can withstand such unfortunate experiences. She has, to be sure, her own weaknesses, as do I, and all of you. And sometimes when my weakness lines up with someone's action, intentionally or otherwise, I can feel the impact and sometimes it is very painful. But that's mine, not theirs. They can't make me feel crappy about myself without my consent.
I've heard it said "don't let anyone rent space in your head" but for me that's a lot easier to say than do.
It is up to me to choose to give that consent or to withhold it. If a man does something and I feel crappy about it, it's because I have chosen to give his actions or words weight (no pun intended). If a woman says something and my daughter feels bad about it, it is because my daughter has chosen to give that person credibility
i think your missing a significent element here: we're not neccesrily talking about people calling a woman ugly or bad looking, we're talking about women feeling bad about how they look because other women - with physical characteristics they don't have - get glorified and considered more attractive then they are.
and if there is anyone who doesn't want to be considered attractive, man or woman, then they are being naive. practically all your face to face interactions within human society are going to be influenced by how attractive other people will think you are; it will be easier for you to get help, you are more likely to get promoted, in a good economy you are more likely to get a better paying job and in a bad economy you are more likely to get a job in general, you will have more social networking oppertunities, you will get more social attention, you will have a better selection of mates and an easier time getting them.
who wouldn't want that? no matter what it is you want in life, these will make it easier. even the financial independence required for complete life long solitude is easier to acomplish with this.
now i doubt that when most people want to feel more attractive they think about all those things. for the most part it's just instinctive reactions to social dynamics, such as jelousy or attention seeking. but overcoming those instincts doesn't overcome their practical basis.
and remember: in most aspects, you and me have no freaking clue as to what would make us look hotter - statistically even to many muscles are shunned away by women so male body builders get it wrong too - we might have a general idea about what flaws detract people, but physical ideals range from macho and hairy to boyish & downright feminine, and the traits unattractive to one woman will be cute and charming for the next.
unlike you and me, your daughter will be given a very clear image of what is attractive. regardless if that means she'll feel too skinny or too heavy (that changes from period to period), she will have to deal with this crap.