Surprise
I came out to my close friends as Erika this week. I would not go so far as to identify as transgender, nor to use such trendy identifiers as genderqueer, but I know I am not a cis male, that I am part of the trans* community. I cant see why I would limit myself to cisgenderdom when my own femininity is so far beyond the generally accepted limit of male feminine expression, and when my body-image is so low because I'm not comfortable expressing such a masculine presentation. I don't plan to try to pass full-time. I'm happy with my genitals. I'm happy with how I dress, sometimes. I'm happy presenting very conservatively at work, or with strangers, or in the south. But with friends, and alone, and in safe spaces, I want to be able to acknowledge my identity and femininity, and to present, physically and stylistically, how I feel best suits me. I already act and think of myself, socially, far more on the conventionally female side of things, so I feel like this just making more public what I've already (much-less-than-half-jokingly) acknowledged happily about myself, my personality, my style, my attitudes, my self.
Hi. I'm Erika. Nice to meet you.
Hi Erika! And congratulations!
Which would you prefer to be called around here?
And, well this feels awkward to ask, but if I'm referring to you, should I use "him" or "her"? Damn this language for dragging us into an enforced gender binary, but what is your preference?
Well Erika, nice to know you a little better.
Hello Erika,
Very nice to meet you. I'd like to second ZenGum's questions. Not to be an ass, but to try to be... ?? precise? sensitive? ugh. I mean, I don't want to offend out of ingnorance.
Anyhow, this sounds like a big step, pretty exciting, kinda scary. I wish you well!
Yours,
Ibby's cool. Or Ibram. Or Erika. But Ibram was never my real name and it doesn't sound that gendered to me, so around here I'll stick with that.
You can use whatever pronouns you want, to be honest - my feelings aren't going to be hurt, and it won't be triggering or dysphoric for me if you pronoun me male, or whatever, but - and thank you for asking, I happen to believe that nobody should assume pronouns for anyone no matter how cis you think they are - I actually prefer singular they as a pronoun for myself. I find myself dissatisfied with most non-binarist pronoun sets I've heard (Ze, Hir, Hirs, Hirself; E, Em, Eir, Eirs, Emself...), and I've believed since long before trans* issues became important to me that singular they/them is properly grammatic regardless of whether or not you know the gender of the singular subject.
Thanks, Ibram, I appreciate that.
This is not very dramatically surprising to me, as I've "known" you for a while around here. But this kind of "knowing" and association has some big differences compared to IRL "knowing". What kind of obstacles have you found outside the cellar? What kinds of things are going better for you?
What would you *like* to happen?
Thanks, Ibram, I appreciate that.
This is not very dramatically surprising to me, as I've "known" you for a while around here. But this kind of "knowing" and association has some big differences compared to IRL "knowing". What kind of obstacles have you found outside the cellar? What kinds of things are going better for you?
What would you *like* to happen?
I'd say if I came out to, say, my coworkers at my hardware store job, I would face major opposition and skepticism, if not outright discrimination, from either coworkers or conservative contractor customers. I accept that; I'm find staying a faggot rather than a tranny to them. I get ma'amed at work about once a week, already, without trying to pass; i smile inside every time, but I don't expect to try to pass in all contexts.
All of the three or four friends I have left, I've come out to, and only one expressed any surprise at it - and when I explained it in terms of, "i've been saying i'm basically a woman for years. I just was kidding less than you figured", he got it. But I'm in the sort of place where I know so few people, where there is so little connecting my life now to my past, that I don't have much that I can point to as differences beyond the fact that I feel so much better about myself, so much more comfortable, being able to come out. I was telling a friend of mine the other day, the reason I sort of feel like want to come out at work anyway is because... it's just good news! it feels like happy, amazing, joyous news, and I want to share it!
Why Erika?
My middle name is Erik. I'm not settled on it necessarily, but I like it, and it seems to fit for the time being unless I find something better.
Why is it necessary to have a 'girl name'?
Or is that just fun?
Welcome, Erika...or congratulation? I hope in time you will become happier and more comfortable with yourself. In the meantime, good luck. Society is not accepting.
Congratulation Erika/Ibby. I can't say I'm much surprised either. But I'm happy for you!
I can understand your keeping a low profile to keep things easier in some circles. You've come out to your friends and to us. I'm glad you feel safe here and and honored you told us.
Why is it necessary to have a 'girl name'?
Or is that just fun?
I actually thought long and hard about this. To present my gender in public or semi-public the way I want to requires more than just putting on a bra and pads, than talking with a higher tone of voice, than walking with a more feminine gait. To be read the way I want to be read, introducing myself as Erika would go a long way towards pushing people into reading me as an unexpectedly masculine girl than an unexpectedly feminine guy. Even if the snap-reading that people make of me would still be then much less nuanced than how I feel about my identity and gender, it would still be more comfortable for me if people assumed i was a cis woman, or whatever.
Ibby's cool. Or Ibram. Or Erika. But Ibram was never my real name and it doesn't sound that gendered to me, so around here I'll stick with that.
Ikram, Ilhan, Ilham, Iram, Irem, Iman, Inam, Inan, and Inaya are all traditional female names as well. But I still like Ibby. :)
As far as I know Ibram isn't even a real name itself, so...
"Cis-" as a prefix of Latin origin, meaning "on the same side [as]" or "on this side [of]"
; also definable as the opposite of "trans-".
It's a synonym for straight. In molecular biology, you can have compounds that have the same molecules (say, C6-H12-O6) but which are in different arrangements. When certain arrangements are symmetrical, they are called cis-, when they are twisted one side opposite the other, they are called trans-. Literally, cis is the opposite of trans, it just doesn't get used in many places outside of hard science.
Erika, I'm very pleased you have been able to talk with us in this way,
and I'm hoping (and believing) that as your larger community comes
to know you better, you'll get a great reception from everyone.
It's a synonym for straight.
well, no. It's not really at all. if you mean straight as in the opposite of gay, one's orientation and one's gender or identity are utterly unrelated. if you mean straight as in the opposite of crooked, you're thinking ortho-.
The trans* community and the gay community are often closely allied, and the LGBTQ umbrella is intended to include them both, but cis- means straight the same way trans- means gay. as in, not at all.
; also definable as the opposite of "trans-".
glad I asked. I was using Carved In Stone in my head. worked a couple times you used it, but then it didn't, so I thought I'd better be sure.
LGBTQ
hold on!
What the hell is the Q for? I've heard LGBT... you're just making shit up now, right?
Welcome, Erika! I've always enjoyed your posts whether they are authored by Ibram or whoever. I congratulate you on doing what is intrinsic to your own well being. You rock!
hold on!
What the hell is the Q for? I've heard LGBT... you're just making shit up now, right?
Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans*, Queer. It's the most inclusive iteration of the acronym - I am a strong proponent of reclaiming queer as an identity and unpolarizing descriptor of all non-hetero, non-cis, non-binarist people regardless of where they lie in the identity spectrum. I very much believe in a wide plethora of identity descriptors, to whatever point of absurdity you feel your own identity to require, and the progressive iterations of "gay community", "gay and lesbian community", "lesbian gay bisexual community" etc managed to be less than fully inclusive. I don't want to erase the asexual community (those that identify as part of the wider queer community - many don't), the genderqueer community (many of whom consider trans or even trans* (the star implies a "wildcard" suffix, not an asterisk) too limiting a definition), the pansexual community (which I feel like I belong to, even if I describe myself as bisexual, because i reject the idea that gender or even sex is so binary), etc, by staying behind the curve. I really do encourage you to try to delve into the complexities of the queer community online - there is a lot of really interesting discussion on this sort of thing, even if you find yourself skeptical or even dismissive of some of the community. I can't claim to be equally understanding of all parts of the wide community out there, but I can try to be equally supportive, regardless of how far outside the mainstream they seem to be.
Here it means Questioning. *shrug*
Congratulations on taking such a big step. And on behalf of the dick-sucking community, Thank you for keeping yours. I have the pics you posted saved on my computer still and I'm no good at photoshop!
:-)
HUGS!
I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing you here, Ib. I like you. I just want to say something.
It seems like all of this "Identification" you're doing is distracting you from just being who you are. Why worry so much about how other people see you? Who you are has little to do with what you call yourself, or what ideas are floating around in your head. You are not your thoughts or ideas. You are the being that observes them.
You won't be happy with you until you can own that, I think. just be you.
I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing you here, Ib. I like you. I just want to say something.
It seems like all of this "Identification" you're doing is distracting you from just being who you are. Why worry so much about how other people see you? Who you are has little to do with what you call yourself, or what ideas are floating around in your head. You are not your thoughts or ideas. You are the being that observes them.
You won't be happy with you until you can own that, I think. just be you.
I feel like I'm not the one deciding what categories there are, here. But since ours is not a world with universally neutered pronoun usage, lack of gender roles and stereotypes, universal respect for every person as an individual without assuming things about them based on their genitalia - i am not comfortable, i struggle with consistent dysphoria and anxiety, as a cis male. I feel like staying closeted, or remaining within the limits of cisgendered life, puts such limits on expressing who i am, the way you say I should.
Basically, what you're saying is, "it seems like all this stuff about being 'gay' is distracting you from just, liking who you like. Why worry about how other people see you? who you like has very little to do with what you call yourself." Do you see what I mean? In a world without extreme normative pressures, coming out is unimportant - if there is NO connotation or implication or importance to your identity, there is no reason to make that identity public. But that is not the world I have to feel comfortable living in - in the world I have to live in, not only am I more comfortable defining myself as something other than male, I feel like all members of the trans* and broader queer community have an obligation to come out if their personal circumstances allow, for the betterment of the entire community through visibility and solidarity (though i do not grudge those who don't feel comfortable or safe coming out their closets).
It seems like perfectly normal young-adult-forming-personality type behaviour to me.
It just reminded me, though, when I was in first year at uni, I had a crush on a girl named Erika. Took me about six months to realise she was a lesbian. :smack: :lol:
No, thats not what I'm saying.
I'm saying that you'll never find a label, be it cis or qwerty...or any of them that will cure your angst. Only realizing that these labels are meaningless and limiting will release you from your confusion.
You are unique and beautiful. You are the same as all of us....and beautiful. If calling yourself erika and wearing a female costume makes you happy, fucking do it. Just don't expect these things to bring you fulfillment. Don't derive your identity from the perception of others. Not others that agree with your opinions, even.
Have a blast exploring this lifestyle, bud. If its what you want to do, do it up proper. You've always had pinache. But once youre used to it, and that
Goddamned phone....
That when the dysphoria comes back.... You take a look at what I said. Just be you. Fuck what society or pronouns say.
Cheers, mate.
No, thats not what I'm saying.
I'm saying that you'll never find a label, be it cis or qwerty...or any of them that will cure your angst. Only realizing that these labels are meaningless and limiting will release you from your confusion.
You are unique and beautiful. You are the same as all of us....and beautiful. If calling yourself erika and wearing a female costume makes you happy, fucking do it. Just don't expect these things to bring you fulfillment. Don't derive your identity from the perception of others.
This.
Except that you love the attention and the limelight I think, and for that, you need an official "persona" to present. you want to be introduced to people, so you need a name.... am I way off base?
I'll just call you Pat. ;)
I'm going to call 'em the dwellar formerly known as Ibby until 'ey adopt a symbol.
Just be you. Fuck what society or pronouns say.
There ya go. I spent... err wasted a lot of years trying to please others.
Wise advice.
Be yourself Ibby. I think with some distance from college, living your own life, you'll find all these labels that don't fit you perfectly will seem less necessary. You're a complicated young person therefor a shortcut introduction to others may not be in the cards for you. Let the layers of the onion reveal themselves slowly from the outside in. We all do that, you've just got more onion. I could be totally of base though so just remember you can always speak freely here.
LETTING GO OF SELF DEFINITIONS
As tribal cultures developed into the ancient civilizations, certain
functions began to be allotted to certain people: ruler, priest or priestess,
warrior, farmer, merchant, craftsman, laborer, and so on. A class system
developed. Your function, which in most cases you were born into,
determined your identity, determined who you were in the eyes of others, as
well as in your own eyes. Your function became a role, but it wasn't
recognized as a role: It was who you were, or thought you were. Only rare
beings at the time, such as the Buddha or Jesus, saw the ultimate irrelevance
of caste or social class, recognized it as identification with form and saw that
such identification with the conditioned and the temporal obscured the light
of the unconditioned and eternal that shines in each human being.
In our contemporary world, the social structures are less rigid, less
clearly defined than they used to be. Although most people are, of course,
still conditioned by their environment, they are no longer automatically
assigned a function and with it an identity. in fact, in the modern world, more
and more people are confused as to where they fit in, what their purpose is,
and even who they are.
I usually congratulate people when they tell me, “I don't know who I
am anymore.” Then they look perplexed and ask, “Are you saying it is a
good thing to be confused?” I ask them to investigate. What does it mean to
be confused? “I don't know “ is not confusion. Confusion is: “I don't know,
but I should know” or “I don't know, but I need to know.” is it possible to let
go of the belief that you should or need to know who you are? In other
words, can you cease looking to conceptual definitions to give you a sense of
self? Can you cease looking to thought for an identity? When you let go of
the belief that you should or need to know who you are, what happens to
confusion? Suddenly it is gone. When you fully accept that you don't know,
you actually enter a state of peace and clarity that is closer to who you truly
are than thought could ever be. Defining yourself through thought is limiting
yourself.
From
A New Earth p 56
In the quest for enlightenment, is being gay a help or a hindrance, or does it not make any difference?
As you approach adulthood, uncertainty about your sexuality followed by the realization that you are "different" from others may force you to disidentify from socially conditioned patterns of thought and behavior. This will automatically raise your level of consciousness above that of the unconscious majority, whose members unquestioningly take on board all inherited patterns. In that respect, being gay can be a help. Being an outsider to some extent, someone who does not "fit in'' with others or is rejected by them for whatever reason, makes life difficult, but it also places you at an advantage as far as enlightenment is concerned. It takes you out of unconsciousness almost by force.
On the other hand, if you then develop a sense of identity based on your gayness, you have escaped one trap only to fall into another. You will play roles and games dictated by a mental image you have of yourself as gay. You will become unconscious. You will become unreal. Underneath your ego mask, you will become very unhappy. If this happens to you, being gay will have become a hindrance. But you always get another chance, of course. Acute unhappiness can be a great awakener.
From The Power of Now p.110You are the same as you ever were to me, in that you are Ibram and have always been. Also this is obviously a journey not a destination, and again I think it's a path you've been on since you came here.
So congrats for being all official. Just don't stop wearing the occasional Tennant Dr Who style suit with baseball boots. I like that look x
I feel like those of you who are saying, you dont need labels and stuff, are.. missing something somewhere, but I don't know how to explain it better. I get a little defensive, I must admit - and I want to explain why its not so much labeling or anything as it is... DE-labeling, from the way I look at it. The broad middle ground I'm staking out by embracing "labels" or, as I look at them, identifiers, gives me much more freedom than the normative assumptive labels do - and a lack of labels on a personal level turns into assumed labels, nearly universally.
When you decide what to wear for the day, you decide what sort of persona you're going to project for that day. If you wear a suit, you project formality and business and such. If you wear sweats, you project either a sense of athleticism or a sense of lazy lack-of-style. I know lots of people who wear sweats like jammies, around the house or alone or whatever, but who wouldn't go out in public in them, because they don't feel personally comfortable being the sort of person who wears sweats out in public. Not everybody cares what persona they project, but i reject the notion that caring about how you are perceived by others is the same as "deriv[ing] your identity from the perception of others." Its not that I need other people to accept my identity before I can; its that, now that I've accepted that my identity fundamentally lies outside the wide box labeled male, I'm less comfortable having people assume I'm male*.
I just finished skimming the "where all the black people at?" thread and noticed some good discussion on identifying terms for people - in this case, "mexican" versus "hispanic", or "american indian" versus "native american" versus, uh, "indian as in from you know INDIA". It's, in a way, this sense of identity (and terminology thereof) that I'm using here. If I were born in New Mexico or Arizona to parents of Mexican decent, I could identify as a Mexican or an American or a mexican-american or a Hispanic or any number of related, sometimes exclusive, sometimes inclusive, always polycombinational terms, right? And while maybe I couldn't argue very well that I'm not Hispanic, or of broadly spanish-american descent, I -could- argue that I'm not Mexican as a person born in America who never lived in Mexico, I could argue that I'm not American (or at least American in citizenship only) as someone of non-USA descent, etc. As it stands, even, I was born in Texas to Alabamian parents - but I am not Texan, and I am not Alabamian, regardless of my place of birth or ancestry, and considering i've hardly lived in either state most there would agree with me that I'm not "from" there in anything but the causal sense. I've adopted Vermont as my home state, even if I'm still a flatlander to them. But we are as a country (and to a great degree, the "first-world" countries are all in the same boat) VERY ready to accept people transcending state boundaries in identity, less ready to accept people transcending national boundaries in identity (but still friendly to being a ______-American), but very far from ready to accept people whose identity or identities transcend gender norms, ignoring the fact that gender norms and biases are at least as arbitrary as state borders, and in many ways much MORE arbitrary and unrelated to physical (or geographic) characteristics. But that doesn't mean a Puerto Rican or Venezuelan or Brazilian should get called a Mexican, just cause theyre from south-of-here (or, in the exact same vein, Koreans or Japanese or Mongolians should get called Chinese just for being from Asia), even if the borders are arbitrary, right? Because the CULTURE isn't, and the people of most countries are at least proud enough of their country to want to be recognized as not being from a neighbor, no matter how similar we find the two sides of the distinction.
It's in that sense that making my identity public, and using "labels" to identify myself, is important to me. Being read as, treated as, called a "man", a "guy", a "dude", a male, feels as accurate to me as if you called me a Canadian cause I'm from the North American continent. Its not that I expect you to treat me different as an American or a Canadian, and its not that I'm forcing myself into a little box called "america" (or "girly") versus where you assumed I was... but what we CALL things is VITALLY important to how we think about things, and letting what I feel to be a limiting and inaccurate category for me to continue as one of my defining characteristics without standing up and saying, "no, you are wrong, that term is not one I would describe myself with" lets me continue to be erased, continue to be treated in ways I don't like, continue to be forced in peoples' minds into the categoric box of "male" that I am not comfortable with.
Coming out doesnt limit or label or categorize me any more than any other identity ANYBODY holds does. Every single one of you has dozens of Identities. American. British. Musician. Salesman. Mother. Brother. Liberal. Conservative. Butch. Femme. Anything, any identity, is something you hold dear to yourself; not a limiting factor, not a box, but a tag, an indicator, a part of how YOU think of YOURSELF.
*I'm using male to refer to masculine gender roles rather than sexually male characteristics in this context. Arguably, "boy" or "man" is the more proper term - male typically indicates male physical sex rather than masculine identity - but wording it this way fits my prosaic style better, I feel, and sex/gender language dichotomy be damned
what are baseball boots?
Plimsolls, of course!
I usually congratulate people when they tell me, “I don't know who I
am anymore.” Then they look perplexed and ask, “Are you saying it is a good thing to be confused?” I ask them to investigate. What does it mean to be confused? “I don't know “ is not confusion. Confusion is: “I don't know, but I should know” or “I don't know, but I need to know.” is it possible to let go of the belief that you should or need to know who you are? In other words, can you cease looking to conceptual definitions to give you a sense of self? Can you cease looking to thought for an identity? When you let go of the belief that you should or need to know who you are, what happens to confusion? Suddenly it is gone. When you fully accept that you don't know, you actually enter a state of peace and clarity that is closer to who you truly are than thought could ever be. Defining yourself through thought is limiting yourself.
I don't not know who I am. I know exactly who I am and I have never for a second doubted it. But I can't agree with you that looking at the range of identities and "defining" yourself as one - or identifying with one, because i feel like this makes a HUGE leap in assuming that identifying with a group as the same as defining yourself as, and limiting yourself to, that same set of identifying markers - is something that is INHERENTLY anti-peacefulness, anti-clarity, anti-acceptance of self. Identifying as part of a broader community based on my lack of identification with a larger community that I've been told for 20 years I'm part of, does not, to me, sound like what is being described as a limiting, confused experience.
I am not confused. I am not questioning. I am making public the degree to which I am certain that I will never fulfill the gender roles associated with the identity I've held up until now, and the degree with which I identify with and feel I am part of the broader trans* community.
Ok. I'll shut up.
I may have misunderstood what you were saying about feeling dysphoric. And I may be projecting my unconscious opinion that all gender benders are confused....by definition.
Didn't mean to offend... I accept you as you regardless of what color bra you're wearing.
How long until we can tease you about it? I've got some good ones...
Ok. I'll shut up.
I may have misunderstood what you were saying about feeling dysphoric. And I may be projecting my unconscious opinion that all gender benders are confused....by definition.
Didn't mean to offend... I accept you as you regardless of what color bra you're wearing.
How long until we can tease you about it? I've got some good ones...
tease away, jimbo.
I know you weren't trying to be offensive or anything - thats why I responded with as much detail and intellectual explanation as i could, rather than with scorn or just ignoring you (not to say you WERE legit offensive, just... a little off base). I understand that to people who have never felt the chasm between gender roles, to those that HAVE always felt comfortable with gender, its hard to really grok everything that goes into gender identity, especially in relation to those outside the mainstream.
Part of the reason, I think, that people assume that to be outside the binarist system is to inherently be confused, is that its hard to shake the concept that there are two right ways, broadly speaking, to define or identify with gender, and those that fall outside the mainstream intend to figure out or transition towards one of the two mainstream poles... when I feel like gender, as an entirely social, entirely arbitrary construct, leaves an infinite number of potential identities. The sort of coming-out that I'm doing is saying that "the position on the gender spectrum that I've always taken and lived in is one that I am not comfortable defining as part of the cis male part of the spectrum", and little more. im saying that the conventional definitions don't fit my identity - not that the identity i've held is wrong or flawed, just that it lies outside the part of the gender spectrum generally defined as male.
I'm glad I better understand why you wonder if I'm making a wise choice. While it is often extremely hurtful or triggering to question a trans* person's identity the way you have made me question it, I have the huge luxury of being in a comfortable enough position to discuss how exactly I feel and why, and being questioned on (or questioning on my own) the decision only serves to help me articulate it better.
All these things I've been saying are going to be so helpful to me in explaining to my parents - who are, for the most part, more "your" generation (in the sense of the broad audience of the cellar) than "my" generation (some of you are of my own generation more than of my parents', or of the one in between mine and my parents', but on gender issues I have to say I think its fair to lump most of in with the older generation considering the extreme gap between young 20-somethings on this and older 20-somethings/30somethings/older) how I feel. I'm glad I'm catching, not flak, but reasonably legitimate questions on the decision. The thing that, for me, most accurately and helpfully refines my political beliefs is being questioned on them; it seems that having my identity questioned only helps me articulate more accurately the identity I mean to explain. So, thank you!
People try to put us down
Just because we g-get around
Not tryin' to cause a big sensation
Just talkin' 'bout my g-generation
Kudos to you for sharing that Erika. I got your back. :)
I've been wanting to post my message but I keep experiencing issues. Maybe it's because I'm a newbie. Anyway, thanks for sharing that Erika. That's very brave of you. Hoping for your happiness. :)
Kudos to you for sharing that Erika. I got your back. :)
Back off! I got Erika's back already! ;-)
what are baseball boots?
I think she means high top sneakers.
I think we need to focus more on people than on parts.
You're Ibby to me, and you're a fine person as far as I'm concerned.
... So congrats for being all official. Just don't stop wearing the occasional Tennant Dr Who style suit with baseball boots. I like that look x
So, are you saying that the Ibby-Erika is like the Doctor-Donna and that maybe Donna would be a better name for 'em?
Back off! I got Erika's back already! ;-)
Didn't anybody teach you to share? :P
@Ibby: or Ibram, you'll kind of always be to me, though I am sure you'll also become Erika as well.
I kind of see where you're coming from, I think. Some of it I can identify with from my own experience of gender identity. I think you'll find quite a lot of girls who grew up as 'tomboys' in the 70s/80s found it hard to reconcile society's (and their peers') gender expectations with where their heads were actually at. If what you fantasized about wasn't ponies and a beautiful dress. but clambering up a war torn slope with a lazer rifle slung over your back, as starships collide overhead, there really weren't very many role-templates available.
Wonder Woman? Princess fucking Leah?
This was before Lara Croft, and Starbuck, or even Sarah Connor.
I recall as a youngster, listening to music on headphones (Adam Ant probably :p) and going off into my own little fantasies, and having adventures, and playing it all out like a movie in my mind (I still do this). But the actions scenes I found it really hard to put myself in visually. Too female. Didn't work, couldn't get at the image. Why? because all those scenes I was drawing from, all those movies and tv shows, all had either male action heroes, or 'heroines'.
I remember wondering if maybe I was gay. When I was later into my teens. I just didn't identify with so much that was seemingly expected of girls but ... I have no desire for the vageen (;p) Then I very briefly wondered if maybe I was transgender (once I came across it as a concept). But I also liked goth make up and cyndi lauper dresses. I felt very female. I had no desire to be male. I just liked/had/identified with some male traits and didn't like/have/identify with some female traits.
Later I discovered massively multiplayer online gaming, and played a male character, whilst not letting on I was r/l female/ Partly, because of the response I got when I did let on, but also because I was enjoying playing a male character, and legitimately 'being' a male hero (well, antihero) character for a little while. I stayed in character as male in the game forums, in the guild chat and everything. I didn't specifically lie, buit I was vague with my gender terminology when referring to my partner, and everything that didn't sit with their expectations of masculinity they put down either me being gay, or just that I was British :p
I play a new game now, and a male character (I generally prefer to roleplay male chars) but I am open about being female when out of character on forums and such.
Now. I had and still have the kind of family that doesn't really push strong gender roles. I was bought cowboys and indians sets and He-Man and She-Ra action figures, as well as a Tiny Tears doll and a wendy house. And I don't think my mum ever knowingly dressed me in pink. Not unless I wanted her to, and I suspect that was a rarity. My brother meanwhile grew up an all action dangerous sports type, who was also an artist and as comfortable around a kitchen as around a building site.
But society does operate on a very binary, polarized basis on the whole. And gender is still a 'dominant idiom' through which we organise and understand our society at every level from the individual to the national. It is there in our art, our legal systems, our military ventures and our commerce. It underpins how we function as a society. But the reality is that it has never been an entirely uncontested binary opposition. There have always been and will always be people for whom those stark definitions don't work. The degree to which such people have been able to forge alternatives and have them accepted by the larger community or society is variable and always has been.
As to the use of 'they'...I don't know m'dear, maybe I'm just a little old fashioned, but that doesn't sit well with me when referring to an identified person. Fine with an unamed person...really jars with a named person. But ya know. I'll try and bear it in mind.
*hugs* if you made it this far down :p
Kind of related, this article is doing the rounds on facebook today:
http://togetherforjacksoncountykids.tumblr.com/post/14314184651/one-teachers-approach-to-preventing-gender-bullying-in
There are several "gender variant" kids in our school and many with same sex parents. it's a school where they feel more comfortable. It must be very hard growing up in the States if you don't enjoy the stereotype of your gender because -as a mom who refuses to imprint her kids with a gender stereotype and has dressed babies and toddler in two different countries- I find the stereotypes very rigidly enforced here, and it takes a lot of effort to be gender-neutral. For example, I just bought a snowsuit for my new neice. it's blue and it's labelled as a boy's snowsuit. there were 8 to choose from. four were pink and four were blue. Not even a yellow option. And they were labelled for boys and girls. That was not the case when i was dressing Hebe as a baby in the UK. Seems like a tough road to walk -it's hard enough from my perpective. All the Best, Ibby.
Hugs all around. Thanks for the support, all of you.
What an exciting new phase of your life Ib. I hope it turns out just as you might hope it will.
BTW, did you know that you're not allowed to call Jimhelm Jimbo? It really annoys him. lol
Oh and Ibram ... it wasn't really much of a surprise. :)
....I want to explain why its not so much labeling or anything as it is... DE-labeling, from the way I look at it. The broad middle ground I'm staking out by embracing "labels" or, as I look at them, identifiers, gives me much more freedom than the normative assumptive labels do - and a lack of labels on a personal level turns into assumed labels, nearly universally.
You're kidding yourself... no matter what territory you attempt to stake out, people will still tag you with where they think you fit. That's so they can talk about you, they don't need any tag to talk to you.
There's nothing you can do about it except be yourself and let the tags fall where they may.
Oh god! Imagine the controversy this might cause in the NSFW threads! (again) lol
You know, I see the issue with gender identification being just an extension of what we all deal with all the time.
I might call myself a woman, but that's about where the similarity with pretty much any other woman on this planet ends. There are so many other ways that I identify myself, and it really depends on who I'm with and what I'm doing as to what that identity might be. For example, I identify myself as a mother, but if I'm at work, then I might be a salesperson or any other numerous tags that go with that role. At other times I might identify myself as a wife, but within that role, there are a multitude of other labels I could give myself too.
I think we all struggle with out identity at some time in our lives. It's all just a matter of trying to figure out where we feel comfortable in the world and labels are like the guardrails. They help in some ways, but in other ways they can stop you or others from seeing the truth, which of course is that you're just you (as others have said before), and you're an individual just like every single other person here.
You know, I see the issue with gender identification being just an extension of what we all deal with all the time.
I might call myself a woman, but that's about where the similarity with pretty much any other woman on this planet ends. There are so many other ways that I identify myself, and it really depends on who I'm with and what I'm doing as to what that identity might be. For example, I identify myself as a mother, but if I'm at work, then I might be a salesperson or any other numerous tags that go with that role. At other times I might identify myself as a wife, but within that role, there are a multitude of other labels I could give myself too.
I think we all struggle with out identity at some time in our lives. It's all just a matter of trying to figure out where we feel comfortable in the world and labels are like the guardrails. They help in some ways, but in other ways they can stop you or others from seeing the truth, which of course is that you're just you (as others have said before), and you're an individual just like every single other person here.
Nicely put, Ali.
For Erica/Ibby by one of my favorite poets:
THE HALF-AND-HALF MAN
—Russell Edson
A man had two feet. One was a woman, the other a man.
Appropriately one wore a woman's high-heeled shoe, the other a rough work boot.
And this was true of his hands and his nostrils and eyes. And this was true of his testicles, one of which was an ovary...
Ib, be who and what you want to be. Don't pay attention to what other people think. Be happy.
Ib, be who and what you want to be. Don't pay attention to what other people think. Be happy.
but what if other people think he should be who and what he wants to be and not pay attention to what other people think?
That could cause BSOD
but what if other people think he should be who and what he wants to be and not pay attention to what other people think?
That could cause BSOD
Then he should be what other people want him to be, and not pay attention to what he, himself, wants. And that's final!
In the long run, other people don't give a shit.
In the long run, other people don't give a shit.
I think that's a little naive. Some do.
Other people, sure--but family can continue to give a shit long after you wish they'd stopped.
Amen.
Or give you a hard time about how much they have had to adjust, and how hard it has been for them.
Then turn round ten years later and ask why are still conflicted over the decisions you took, because they're totally chilled with them already.
Thanks. I needed that reassurance at the time, when I was scared and alone.
Not now when it turns out the world didn't shatter after all.
I'm gonna start cross-posting some of my angsty dysphoric tumblr blog posts here just to avoid cluttering up other threads with my genderbitching.
Im posting two now just cause im too lazy to edit them together or anything into a more coherent unified post.
Suddenly super super dysphoric that my girl-jeans are as tight as I can wear at the thighs and way too loose at the hips. I need hips. I’ll never have hips.
Too broke to buy decent razors, too oafish to shave with the cheap shit without flaying myself. I have only one leg shaved cause I cut it so many times it was too agonizing to try the other, and my face isn't just nicked and pinpricked, I’ve taken off whole chunks of it at this point.
Sure don't feel pretty with my face all carved up.
Ouch!
I buy men's razors like Gillette or Schick even for shaving my legs. Even if its the same type as the female version, they just seem to be sharper and do a better job. Then again I go weeks without shaving, and kinda don't see it as necessary for femininity. My family disagrees with me though.
Why so broke? Define decent. Almost anything but Dollar store, Ladies and Sensitive should do the trick. Beyond that, it's not the razors. slow down. It's not like shaving your face is a new trick, surely?
Bic "sensitive" one-blade safety razors. If i shave fast i end up with five or six tiny nicks, even with good razors. if i shave slow i remove slices, with these. It's not a new trick, no, but it was only slightly unsightly, not wildly dysphoric and embarrassing and outing, before I came out.
About the jeans issue, why do you particularly need to wear women's jeans? Just get jeans that fit right. It's the accessories that will help identify you. Jeans are jeans. You might as well wear ones that fit right for your body shape.
Do you know that girls who don't have hips usually buy mens jeans anyway?
Also, so happy to finally be catching up on Sunday's episode of Melissa Harris-Perry. Guest Kate Bornstein talks with Melissa about "being trans* in America" and gender identity and all that great stuff. I adore kate, and i've heard fantastic stuff about how the episode went.
About the jeans issue, why do you particularly need to wear women's jeans? Just get jeans that fit right. It's the accessories that will help identify you. Jeans are jeans. You might as well wear ones that fit right for your body shape.
Do you know that girls who don't have hips usually buy mens jeans anyway?
If I buy men's jeans, they don't have the added crotchal compression, or the slimmer, tighter cut that helps me "read" as a girl since I'm dressed more markedly like one. The problem with the loose hips isn't that they're too loose and don't fit well, it's just that they make me feel dysphoric because I don't have hips. I can wear a belt. They don't sag or anything even when I don't. They just remind me that they don't make jeans that are cut quite right for hipless brick-shaped trans ladies like me.
They don't make jeans cut quite right for most shapes Ib. Honestly, as a woman, it's very difficult to find a pair of jeans that fit well unless you're an 'ideal' shape, and most of us aren't.
Welcome to the world of women. ;)
About the crotch slimming thing. Can't you get underwear that will do that sort of thing for you? That way it wont matter what jeans you wear. :)
Yeah, I've made the same comment pretty often myself. Complain about a thing, then point out the absurdity of my bitching by being like, well, yeah, thats the same as it is for every other woman anyway. But the difference is that instead of just hurting my self-esteem it hits me at a slightly different level, when its something thats BECAUSE of my transly state. Like, my tummy makes me feel bad like it would for anyone else... not being able to make my balls behave long enough to gaff up and hide them, and having to wear boyjeans or sweats to hide my bulge, for instance, makes me dysphoric and self-loathing on a fairly different way.
why not buy jeans (boy/girl/whatever) that fit in the hips, are loose in the waist then put a couple darts in the waist with a needle and thread? We're talking.. what ... 15 minutes of work including measuring pinning dressing sewing cussing unsewing remeasuring resewing and redressing?
come on. Ibram, what kind of sewing skills do you have?
None whatsoever. I can barely get a button to stay on.
re shaving your face.
less pressure. hot water to soften the hair. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS move the blade in a direction STRICTLY PERPENDICULAR TO THE BLADE. If you need to change direction, cause you run out of face or whatever, pick the blade up, turn it so that the blade is PERPENDICULAR to the direction you wish to shave, and continue shaving. more strokes, shorter strokes, lighter strokes can help. One long curving stripe of skin appearing in a snowdrift of shaving cream is only for the commercials, it doesn't happen that way in the bathroom, not without risking blood.
you probably already knew all this.
I like to sew. I have basically taught myself. Hand sewing, and machine sewing. It's not that hard and the number of options it opens up for you is enormous. You don't need a lot of money either. I got my Singer machine at Goodwill for $29.99, and I've made several costumes with it, countless pieces of camping gear, etc etc. It is a very, very basic machine, straight stitch and zigzag, and reverse. It's not that hard and you could make things smaller and larger, ... IF you could sew.
Are you interested or willing to learn to sew? That sounds awkward, I mean... if you had that skill, even a basic level, you'd have a lot more options. And it's easy and fun, really.
Current fashion is for boys to wear girls jeans......
Bic "sensitive" one-blade safety razors. If i shave fast i end up with five or six tiny nicks, even with good razors. if i shave slow i remove slices, with these. It's not a new trick, no, but it was only slightly unsightly, not wildly dysphoric and embarrassing and outing, before I came out.
There's your problem. Those are the crappiest razors ever. Hebe and I were forced to buy some on vacation last year. So bad, we threw unused ones in the trash when we got home. We never do shit like that -I am such a miser. they were bad. Gillette "Good News" are the same price if not cheaper and much much better.
More jeans companies seem to be coming out with different styles of pants for different body shapes. Levis is one of my favorite brands you can go through their guide here:
http://us.levi.com/shop/index.jsp?categoryId=4370093&cp=3146849.3146880&ab=leftnav:leviscurveid:curveidquiz:4370093
Hope this helps some.
There's your problem. Those are the crappiest razors ever.
totally agree!
NEVER BUY BIC!!!!! EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
I've been shaving for 30+ years - sometimes twice a day.
I used Bic-shit razors twice with the same result as you, only far worse.
I could probably do a better job with a rusty can lid!
Gillette Sensor excel with 2 blades. I've been successfully using them since you were born (or thereabouts).
As far as the jeans issue ... Wrangler relaxed cut $16.59 at Target.
Thats all I got - lol.
If you're going to shave your legs, use one like 'venus' if you get them over there. Make sure you still use plenty of soap or shaving cream though, even though they suggest you don't need it.
alternatively, get your legs waxed when you get your brows done. :)
Ib, I need to tell you too, Mav (Mr 14 almost 15) had his brows waxed the other day when I had a beauty party at my place. If you still have reservations about going into a salon and doing it, I hope this helps with your nerves. I meant to tell you about it at the time, but somehow it slipped my mind.
Bic make excellent pens and lighters. I wonder why their razors don't make par.
Ladies, let me tell you, men's clothing is just the same, well cut for an ideal body, awkward for the other 95% of us.
Ibica, regarding the lack of hips: me too!! Never had 'hips' as such. Always loved the look of hipster jeans on other girls, never able to wear them as hipsters m'self, on account of the lack of discernible hip.
And obviously, any style of clothing relying on a cleavage effect is a non-starter for me too :p
Welcome to the sisterhood, babes.
Now off you go and get yourself an eating disorder and a lifelong compulsion to please everyone around you and you're all set!
:p
Joking aside: your particular situation is obviously going to magnify the impact of some of these things in subtle ways. Drawing the line between what is gender dysmorphic and what is the ordinary day to day self criticism/loathing/consciousness that is being a woman might be difficult at times.
Though, men seem to be running up behind us on this track. The days when men could just throw on whatever was clean and consider they'd done their sartorial duty for the day are fast disappearing. And whilst being an unattractive woman is still more frowned on by society than being an unattractive man, the cracks are starting to show.
Welcome to the sisterhood, babes.
Now off you go and get yourself an eating disorder and a lifelong compulsion to please everyone around you and you're all set!
[SIZE="6"]:rotflol::rotflol:[/SIZE]
... the cracks are starting to show.
They've been showing, you're just noticing now.
Can't. Look. Away.
Caught. In. The. Glare.
The days when men could just throw on whatever was clean and consider they'd done their sartorial duty for the day are fast disappearing.
Lies.
And "clean" is a relative term.
Doesn't anyone use electric any more?
Norelco all the way. Close shave, no nicks. The dry shave is mildly irritating to the skin, but after you are done, you just splash a little cold water on your face, and it's fine. It's faster and just as close. I haven't shaved with a blade in 25 years or more.
Electric are much cheaper and better for the environment too, because you aren't using any hot water, and the amount of current they draw is minimal. No supplies to buy. Nothing to throw away. The cost of the razor pays for itself in like 6 months.
You have seen my profile pics. Have you ever thought: "that glatt has a poorly shaved face?" The only trick with the electric is that sometimes you need to pull slightly on the skin to get the hairs to stand up straight as you pass over them with the electric.
You can get the $30 corded one, or spring for the $60 cordless that you can walk around with while you shave. You need to charge it once a week, though.
I am with you Glatt! My husband is cheap and hacks[ed] his face up all the time. For his birthday I bought him a Norelco. Going to social events with his face dripping blood scares the crap out of people. I dunno how it shaves legs.
IBS save your cash and get a No No, hair gone for 6 weeks at a time would be fabulous. ;)
Electrics don't work on my legs...hair is too baby fine
Ibby, welcome to the sisterhood. You have just hit on one of the thorny topics that never quite seems to get resolved.
I highly recommend a lubricated multi-blade razor and lots of hot water. Shave your legs in the bath AFTER soaking for a while, but before you prune up. Use soap, not shaving cream. Fresh, sharp razors are better than old ones. If money is an issue, try
this.
If your skin can stand it, I use Nair For Men (never use the women's kind; the Ph is not your Ph and will burn). Follow the directions on the bottle and do not deviate. This is important. The lotion will also soften your skin as a side-benefit and the smoothness will last longer (I get at least a week before I feel stubble).
A lot of us late-bloomers use a depilator. I know, it hurts and it torture to use. I recommend the enjoi Optima. Use on hair that is more than 1/16 but less than 1/4 inch long.
If hormones are in your future, be advised that most of your body hair will become very fine (vellous) and mostly invisible over the course of time. Not your face though :( That, you need to treat with electrolysis and/or laser.
Hormones also change your body's distribution of fat, giving you curves, although you will always have narrow hips.
I am full of these little secrets, all you have to do is ask!
Take care
Pamela
Gillette Sensor excel with 2 blades.
This is what I've been using from the very beginning. Disposable razors are absurd.
Also, Mr. Clod uses an electric too, and would never, ever consider switching to real blades. I've never tried it myself, but he uses a pre-shave to soften the hair (Nivea for Men moisturizing shave gel) and then moves it in lots of very small circles all over his face until it's magically done.
Doesn't anyone use electric any more?
It's faster and just as close.
Sorry, I disagree - I've tried several electric razors. FAIL. They don't even dent my facial hair.
MY son uses one because he is afraid of using a regular blade. It takes him at least 15 mins to shave with it and he still looks rough when done. I always have to touch him up afterward.
AFTER using one, I look like most men BEFORE they shave.
I've gone with a beard from the chin line up for the past couple years out of sheer economics.
I only shave my neck now. Otherwise I'll go through too many blades.
Disposable razors are absurd.
^^^WSS^^^
They've been showing, you're just noticing now.
The answer:
[YOUTUBE]iJOqjh1hrBw[/YOUTUBE]
Works on radio, too, for those of us who have delicate sensibilities.
[YOUTUBE]nUPPeY_ifDA[/YOUTUBE]
Ibram, you've come a long way, baby.
[YOUTUBE]WVdzP53X9vw[/YOUTUBE]
Can't. Look. Away.
Caught. In. The. Glare.
Moonlight?
Women's razors are lovely. They are streamlined and shapely, come in many beautiful colors, and may be delicately scented with aromatherapeutically correct lavender or citrus or lavender and citrus. They cost five times as much as men's razors from the same company.
And they can't shave for crap.
Get a decent men's razor (double or triple blade) and moisturize the hell out of anything it touches.
Electrics are good for leg shaving, but never get as close as a blade.
The as seen on tv light grit sandpaper that you stick down to something that looks like a currycomb ... total crap. Doesn't work. Don't waste the money.
Electrics are good for leg shaving, but never get as close as a blade.
A lot of opinions here. I disagree with this one. I think the thing about blades is that they slice off the top layer of skin cells, so the skin feels tight, and many people mistake that tight feeling for a close shave. Electric razors don't really do anything to the skin, but they tug on the hair as they cut it. (You can actually feel this, especially when the hair is longer.) So the hair gets tugged out as it's cut, and the cut line is lower than the surrounding skin.
I think electrics are just as close or closer than blades.
We'll agree to disagree. Maybe its the type of hair, but that "tugging" you speak of is more like the electric razor attempting to rip the hair out, to me anyway.
In your pictures, you appear to have a very thick beard, so I'm sure your experience is different than mine.
On that we agree. As it just so happens, I am shaving my beard tomorrow am for my
speech. This should be fun I haven't had a clean face in a looooooooooooooong time.
Has anyone tried one of those razors with the vibrating handle?
For the life of me I can't figure why you'd want that, unless it is a way of discretely selling sex toys. In which case a sharp blade seems foolish.
Has anyone tried one of those razors with the vibrating handle?
For the life of me I can't figure why you'd want that, unless it is a way of discretely selling sex toys. In which case a sharp blade seems foolish.
The sharp blade does detach you know, even then, I doubt the vibes are strong enough to do any real good. I can't think of a good reason anyone would think that helps in shaving.
I don't know from shaving, but I've heard the vibrating handle is a good idea because the blade is more effective moving slightly sideways than up-n-down.
I haven't tried an electric since the early eighties but it tore up my face enough to prevent ever trying it again. Ibica wants a super clean finish so I'd go Gillette Mach 3. If you rinse them out well you can use them quite a while to save on dollars.
Get an electric razor, and put your jeans on wet so they dry to your shape.