Republican politcians NOT INVITED to the Labor Day March

Pico and ME • Aug 29, 2011 12:24 pm
Labor unions barring Republican politicians from their Labor Day March in a Wisconsin Town

I say way-to-go.
BigV • Aug 29, 2011 1:27 pm
the link you provide glosses over an important aspect of what the republicans did in Wisconnsin. This is what was reported from your link:

The background, if you don't remember, is that after a protracted fight in which Democratic lawmakers fled the state, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, a Republican, managed to pass a law that stripped public employees of their collective bargaining rights.



The bill he signed would still allow state, municipal and school workers to bargain over their wages, but any raises beyond the rate of inflation would require a voter referendum. The repeal of most collective bargaining would not apply to unions representing local police, firefighters and State Patrol troopers. In addition, the law would solve part but not all of the state’s immediate budget shortfall, require public employees to pay more for pensions and health insurance, give Walker broad authority over health care programs for the poor and turn 37 civil service jobs into political appointments.

from here

Why take away rights from civil service workers and school teachers but not take away those same rights from cops, firemen and troopers? Because it is a craven political maneuver to reduce the political strength of his political opposition. By reducing the economic strength of his perceived enemy, he increases his strength.

Sun Tzu wrote:

II-Waging War; 15. Hence a wise general makes a point of foraging on the enemy. One cartload of the enemy's provisions is equivalent to twenty of one's own, and likewise a single picul of his provender is equivalent to twenty from one's own store.


Why take away a teacher's rights but not a cop's rights? Because he decided that the constituencies of their opponents would not be roused to a degree that couldn't be defeated. But if they'd included cops and firemen and troopers in the same theft, that those constituencies *would be* too angry to face. EVERYBODY can be made to fear some boogeyman, and those people want happy dedicated on the job cops/firemen/troopers to defend them. But not everybody believes that having happy dedicated teachers is in the best interest of everyone. Stupid and wrong of course, but true nonetheless.

Why exclude the cops and firemen and troopers? They didn't want to be seen as gutting the forces that protect our security. They were afraid to be responsible for making people less safe. They're ok with being responsible for making us more stupid. It's the power of the politics of fear that they respect and in this case did not want turned against them.
[CENTER]
Fear.

Brought to you by the GOP[/CENTER]
TheMercenary • Aug 30, 2011 9:47 pm
I say what a load of Bull Shit....

Labor Unions are not the only piece of the pie of what made our country great. Who the fuck is paying for the public employees to support this parade? The tax payer. Another reason Labor Unions are outdated and a bunch of bullies.

If I were the mayor I would deny their permit for a parade and send them packing. Bunch of wankers. This should not be about politics. Fools. Pox on anyone who supports them....
DanaC • Aug 30, 2011 9:55 pm
How the fuck is Labor Day not political?
TheMercenary • Aug 30, 2011 9:58 pm
How the fuck is it political? Doesn't everyone contribute to the production of labor in some sense, no matter where you fall on the ladder?

Traditionally, Labor Day is celebrated by most Americans as the symbolic end of the summer. In high society, Labor Day is (or was) considered the last day of the year when it is fashionable for women to wear white.[4]
In U.S. sports, Labor Day marks the beginning of the NFL and college football seasons. NCAA teams usually play their first games the week before Labor Day, with the NFL traditionally playing their first game the Thursday following Labor Day. The Southern 500 NASCAR auto race was held that day from 1950 to 1983 in Darlington, South Carolina. At Indianapolis, the National Hot Rod Association hold their finals to the U.S. Nationals drag race. Most school districts that started summer vacation in mid june will resume school near this day (schools that had summer begin near memorial day will have already been in session for about 3 weeks).


To make into some political statement is to highjack it for political gain.... It is much more than that.
Happy Monkey • Aug 30, 2011 10:08 pm
:rolleyes:

You might have been able to make a point if your "more than that" hadn't been a bunch of unrelated stuff that used a convenient three-day weekend.

You might as well say that people shouldn't highjack Presidents' day by talking about history and ignoring all of the good deals you can get on mattresses.
TheMercenary • Aug 30, 2011 10:10 pm
Happy Monkey;753612 wrote:
:rolleyes:

You might have been able to make a point if your "more than that" hadn't been a bunch of unrelated stuff that used a convenient three-day weekend.

You might as well say that people shouldn't highjack Presidents' day by talking about history and ignoring all of the good deals you can get on mattresses.
But just think! We got a day off!!! Presidents day has been hijacked as just another day off. I don't see your point.
DanaC • Aug 30, 2011 10:12 pm
From wiki:

The first Labor Day in the United States was observed on September 5, 1882, by the Central Labor Union of New York[1] It became a federal holiday in 1894, when, following the deaths of a number of workers at the hands of the U.S. military and U.S. Marshals during the Pullman Strike, President Grover Cleveland put reconciliation with the labor movement as a top political priority. Fearing further conflict, legislation making Labor Day a national holiday was rushed through Congress unanimously and signed into law a mere six days after the end of the strike.[2] The September date originally chosen by the CLU of New York and observed by many of the nation's trade unions for the past several years was selected rather than the more widespread International Workers' Day because Cleveland was concerned that observance of the latter would stir up negative emotions linked to the Haymarket Affair, which it had been observed to commemorate.[3] All U.S. states, the District of Columbia, and the territories have made it a statutory holiday.
DanaC • Aug 30, 2011 10:14 pm
Labor Day originated from the politics of labour and conciliation. The unions commemorate those fundamental roots and don't want politicians who've acted against the interests of the labouring class commemorating with them.

Seems reasonable enough to me.
TheMercenary • Aug 30, 2011 10:20 pm
So let them have their parade without the support of taxpayer dollars. No police, no fireman, no EMT's. No permit. They only support one party in the US. It is political by the nature of preventing inclusion of anyone who wants to participate, regardless of political affiliation. How about if we had a parade on the 4th of July and said that Demoncrats just weren't patriotic enough for us, and since we are the majority in that state, they will not be allowed to be in the parade? What would be your response? Are you trying to say that because a person is a Republickin that they have not contributed to the production of labor in our nation or to the creation of jobs? What if all the Republickins in that state said, well since we are not included we will just fire all Demoncrats who participate in the parade, see you in court, you are out of a job? Now do they contribute to Labor or not?
Happy Monkey • Aug 30, 2011 10:23 pm
It is not highjacking to talk about what the holiday is actually about.

Presidents' Day is about presidential history. It is not highjacking Presidents' Day to talk about presidents, even if you ignore all of the mattress sales.

Labor Day is about the Labor movement (I note that you didn't link to the article you quoted, as it makes that point pretty explicitly). It is not highjacking Labor Day to talk about labor unions, even if you fail to mention the proper season to wear white clothing.
TheMercenary • Aug 30, 2011 10:24 pm
Happy Monkey;753618 wrote:
It is not highjacking to talk about what the holiday is actually about.

Presidents' Day is about presidential history. It is not highjacking Presidents' Day to talk about presidents, even if you ignore all of the mattress sales.

Labor Day is about the Labor movement (I note that you didn't link to the article you quoted, as it makes that point pretty explicitly). It is not highjacking Labor Day to talk about labor unions, even if you fail to mention the proper season to wear white clothing.
So how does that support the action to prevent participation?
Happy Monkey • Aug 30, 2011 10:27 pm
The Wisconsin Republican Party made it pretty clear that they do not want Labor to participate.
TheMercenary • Aug 30, 2011 10:30 pm
Happy Monkey;753622 wrote:
The Wisconsin Republican Party made it pretty clear that they do not want Labor to participate.
But yet they can't work without them. So again, how does that support the fact that Labor Day is a National Holiday, supported by taxpayer dollars, regardless of political affiliation and how can a single political party prevent participation in a national holiday. Why couldn't all blacks just say we don't want any white people to participate in MLK day because they are not black? White people would have to work, all black people get the day off....

What a load of Bull Shit, on both accounts.
TheMercenary • Aug 30, 2011 10:35 pm
Happy Monkey;753622 wrote:
The Wisconsin Republican Party made it pretty clear that they do not want Labor to participate.
No, what they said was they are no longer in charge and can no longer screw the taxpayer at the expense of more needed programs. They can no longer hold the average taxpayer hostage and get benefits that 99% of the rest of working stiffs can't get. They will now have to pay their way like the rest of the state. The gravy train ends and the average tax payer no longer has to support their publicly supported lifestyles.... I see no problem in that.
TheMercenary • Aug 30, 2011 10:40 pm
Some political candidates like to take part in community parades. But some wonder if Labor Day parades in our area will be influenced by a decision in Wausau made by union organizers.

The Wausau group has said elected Republican supporters of Governor Walker's changes to collective bargaining will not be allowed in their parade.

Labor Day is a national holiday in honor of working people. And Fond du Lac's Labor Council plans to honor all working people at its Labor Day parade Monday.

“It's still a parade. It's not a political statement; it's not a partisan event,” said Mary Kunde, council secretary.

Kunde says she doesn't support Republicans who voted against collective bargaining, but she says that doesn't mean they should be banned from the parade. She says she disagrees with those in Wausau who want to exclude Republican politicians. But others say Wausau has the right idea.

“Either you're going to be with us or you're gonna be against us and obviously the vast, vast majority of the Republicans in the house and in the senate were against working families this year,” said Fox Valley Area Labor Council President Mark Westphal.

Westphal says if any Republicans who supported stripping collective bargaining rights wanted to come to the Neenah-Menasha Labor Day parade it puts on, he would consider banning them.

“It's time that we take a firm stand and recognize who our friends are and who our enemies are,” said Westphal.

Republican Representative Dean Kaufert is planning to participate in Neenah-Menasha's Labor Day parade, but he opposed Governor Walker's stance on collective bargaining. Still, he disagrees with what's happening in Wausau, and hopes it won't happen here.

“I probably wouldn't go, if they're gonna do that which I hope would never. There's gotta be an open dialogue,” said Kaufert. “What I see happening in Wausau, I think it's kind of ridiculous.”

But even with a difference in opinion, come Monday in Fond du Lac and Neenah-Menasha, all workers will be welcome in the parades


http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/labor-day-parade-dispute
Happy Monkey • Aug 30, 2011 10:41 pm
TheMercenary;753623 wrote:
Why couldn't all blacks just say we don't want any white people to participate in MLK day because they are not black?
If there were a party advocating segregation, I would expect MLK day event organizers to disinvite them.
White people would have to work, all black people get the day off....
Wisconsin Republican politicians still get Labor Day off, if they like; don't worry. They just aren't invited to the photo-op mentioned in the article.
TheMercenary • Aug 30, 2011 10:51 pm
Happy Monkey;753630 wrote:
If there were a party advocating segregation, I would expect MLK day event organizers to disinvite them.[quote]According to your formula of preventing a single political party from participation in the parade I would say yes, you have made that perfectly clear that it is ok.

[quote]Wisconsin Republican politicians still get Labor Day off, if they like; don't worry. They just aren't invited to the photo-op mentioned in the article.
Sorry, that dog will not hunt (Bill Clit,on)... It is a public event that cannot occur with out tax payer support, police, fireman, EMT's, Traffic, City workers, all paid for on the non-political-non-denominational taxpayer dime....

Maybe all the Republickins should just show up with billie clubs and beat the shit out of the parade participants just for old times, would that make them happy they excluded someone based on political affiliation? I don't think so...

The whole thing just shows how fucked up Demoncrats in WI and the Unions think. I am glad this has made the headlines.... Really.
classicman • Aug 31, 2011 12:14 am
All the R's can show up, they just won't be riding in the cars waving or eating the cheese or whatever they do in Wisconsin. (levity)

It's their party, ("The parade is organized by 30 local unions.")
they may invite/not invite whomever they want.
TheMercenary • Aug 31, 2011 12:24 am
The Silence is defining... A typical measure of their resolve...
BigV • Aug 31, 2011 12:30 am
mercy, you crack me up. you're so confused. did you hear about the stuff that happened this year in wisconsin politics? probably not. you can learn a lot about it in the first link and in the links at that page. here's a summary for you. the republican governor pushed for and got a change in the laws that took away collective bargaining rights for some labor unions, the ones that are most heavily populated by his political opposition. it was a purely political act. this selective abuse of power made the people whose rights he took away angry. lots of those groups are the ones organizing this parade.

oh, right, the parade. it is being organized by some thirty labor unions. not by the republican party. if they want to organize a parade, they sure can. they can invite who they want to invite and not invite those folks they don't want. just like they did at the statehouse this spring.

I've tried to read what you're sayin, I swear I try, but I don't understand you. I read this in a post with your name on it:

Doesn't everyone contribute to the production of labor in some sense, no matter where you fall on the ladder?


and I almost fell off my chair. surely this is a big long typo. everyone contributes? I think maybe your account has been hijacked. your faux outrage is like a comedy skit by one of those comedians whose schtick is being angry, but without all the logic that makes it funny.

I'm really glad this made the headlines too. I'd love to talk sensibly about it. interested?
TheMercenary • Aug 31, 2011 1:13 am
That is silly talk...
Griff • Aug 31, 2011 7:05 am
This is really interesting. Obviously, the organizers of any event can choose who can march in it and governments provide security for all kinds of exclusive groups such as the KKK in the interest of good order. The question I have is what or who put the idea in Merc's head that the holiday wasn't about organized labor? Is it a concerted effort to "disremember" or happenstance. This isn't one of those issues where there are competing narratives,.. yet. Make believe history is pretty easy to spread if people want to believe something different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Day
The first Labor Day in the United States was observed on September 5, 1882, by the Central Labor Union of New York[1] It became a federal holiday in 1894, when, following the deaths of a number of workers at the hands of the U.S. military and U.S. Marshals during the Pullman Strike, President Grover Cleveland put reconciliation with the labor movement as a top political priority. Fearing further conflict, legislation making Labor Day a national holiday was rushed through Congress unanimously and signed into law a mere six days after the end of the strike.[2] The September date originally chosen by the CLU of New York and observed by many of the nation's trade unions for the past several years was selected rather than the more widespread International Workers' Day because Cleveland was concerned that observance of the latter would stir up negative emotions linked to the Haymarket Affair, which it had been observed to commemorate.[3] All U.S. states, the District of Columbia, and the territories have made it a statutory holiday.

If anti-union GOP lawmakers wanted to march in a pro-union event and I was the organizer. I'd welcome them, every group needs a foil. Unofficially I'd say break out the rotten eggs and fruit.
DanaC • Aug 31, 2011 7:13 am
I must admit, that this conversation did take a slightly surreal twist.
Spexxvet • Aug 31, 2011 8:41 am
There are precedents. During the 2004 campaign, non-Bush supporters were ejected from Bush campaign rallies. Catholics preists refused to give communion to politicians who support the right for a woman to choose.

I doubt that Jews would invite Nazis to a holocaust observance, nor would the KKK invite blacks or Jews to one of their celebrations, and I doubt that mercy would invite a muslim or a liberal for a boat ride (unless is was to dump their body).
Sundae • Aug 31, 2011 9:11 am
Spexxvet;753702 wrote:
... and I doubt that mercy would invite a muslim or a liberal for a boat ride (unless is was to dump their body).

I may be hopelessly naive, but I do not believe that to be true at all. Pretty much the opposite.
Merc sent me a book I expressed interest in, at his own cost. And I am pretty much as liberal as they come.

When he is generalising, he hates liberals (have no idea about Muslims, I've never got that vibe). But when it comes to person-to-person I honestly believe him to be accepting, generous and hospitable.

My apols if you weren't referring to Merc when you wrote mercy!
Spexxvet • Aug 31, 2011 9:19 am
Sundae;753710 wrote:
When he is generalising, he hates liberals (have no idea about Muslims, I've never got that vibe). But when it comes to person-to-person I honestly believe him to be accepting, generous and hospitable.


We disagree, then.
DanaC • Aug 31, 2011 10:07 am
I actually do get a bit of an anti-muslim vibe but also completely agree on the distinction between attitudes to general groups and actual individual interaction.
Pico and ME • Aug 31, 2011 10:59 am
Although, Mercs contribution in political threads is usually hard to swallow, I do believe he served an important purpose in this one. His outrage moved others to more fully explain and defend the unions position. (And then of course showed how weak his argument is)
Griff • Aug 31, 2011 5:14 pm
Sundae;753710 wrote:
I may be hopelessly naive, but I do not believe that to be true at all. Pretty much the opposite.
Merc sent me a book I expressed interest in, at his own cost. And I am pretty much as liberal as they come.

When he is generalising, he hates liberals (have no idea about Muslims, I've never got that vibe). But when it comes to person-to-person I honestly believe him to be accepting, generous and hospitable.

My apols if you weren't referring to Merc when you wrote mercy!


I agree. We all, especially me, have to do a better job of separating our feelings about people from our feelings about their beliefs. Right now American politicians seem to think the opposite and it is doing a hell of a lot of damage. We get people saying they will "take the country back" or demonizing different groups just when the country needs to pull together.
TheMercenary • Sep 2, 2011 11:28 am
I have absolutely nothing against anyone of any faith. Interesting how many people on the left are at the forefront of persecuting anyone in politics who expresses their faith in a religion but are so quick to defend people who worship Islam. I support anyone's right to worship anyone or anything they believe. As long as you don't try to forcibly make me think like you through legislation or acts to remove peoples right to worship as they please, I am cool with that.
TheMercenary • Sep 2, 2011 11:31 am
Pico and ME;753729 wrote:
His outrage moved others to more fully explain and defend the unions position. (And then of course showed how weak his argument is)
Oh, you mean like this.....


Labor leaders must pay for parade if GOP banned, mayor says

MILWAUKEE (Reuters) - The mayor of a Wisconsin town said on Tuesday a local labor council would have to reimburse the city up to $2,000 for a Labor Day parade if organizers exclude Republican lawmakers from attending.
The move in Wausau, Wisconsin, came after a county labor official said last week that Republican politicians were not welcome at the event due to their party's stance against collective bargaining when state lawmakers voted to curtail it earlier this year.
Wausau Mayor Jim Tipple told Reuters on Tuesday that the decision to exclude elected Republicans "flies in the face of public policy."
"This is not a political rally, it's a parade, for God's sake," Tipple said, noting that taxpayer money is used by the city to pay for staging the event. Tipple's office is nonpartisan, and he claims no affiliation with either political party.
He said the annual cost of the parade, including insurance, setting up and taking down a stage, and police personnel, runs anywhere from $1,500 to $2,000 each year.
:lol: they should charge them double...
Pico and ME • Sep 2, 2011 11:46 am
I hope they pay the $2000...its a reasonable enough amount and totally worth it.
TheMercenary • Sep 2, 2011 12:02 pm
Pico and ME;754082 wrote:
I hope they pay the $2000...its a reasonable enough amount and totally worth it.
I would rather see the city let them have the permit without the support of the Taxpayer funded services.:p:
BigV • Sep 2, 2011 12:27 pm
why mercy? because you'd like to see them ... what? fail? be unsafe? Tell me why please.
TheMercenary • Sep 2, 2011 12:27 pm
Damm, those Union guys should be able to foot the bill easily if they get paid like this! I want a job like that!

Union leader draws lucrative pension perk based on false information

Every month, Thomas Villanova gets a $9,000 reminder of how lucrative it can be to serve as a union leader in Chicago.

The sum is part of a city pension that comes on top of the $198,000 annual salary he is paid to represent the interests of thousands of city workers.

Villanova last worked for the city in 1989 as an electrical mechanic with the Department of Streets and Sanitation, making about $40,000 a year. Yet in 2008 he was allowed to retire at age 56 with a $108,000 city pension. That's because, under a little-known state law, his pension was based not on his city paycheck but on his much higher union salary.

This kind of deal is available only to union officials who meet certain requirements, but a Tribune/WGN-TV investigation has uncovered documents that show Villanova violated state law when he applied for the pension and cast doubt on whether he truly qualifies for all that money.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/watchdog/ct-met-pensions-villanova-20110902,0,1997273.story
Pico and ME • Sep 2, 2011 12:29 pm
TheMercenary;754091 wrote:
I would rather see the city let them have the permit without the support of the Taxpayer funded services.:p:


Remember though, the police and fire department were 100% behind the teachers union during the fight. Perhaps they would provide their services free of charge.
TheMercenary • Sep 2, 2011 12:29 pm
BigV;754099 wrote:
why mercy? because you'd like to see them ... what? fail? be unsafe? Tell me why please.
I think that they have a skewed view of Labor represents. In the past all parades in this city have been non-partisan. It is only because of the recent events at the state level that this has risen to another level.

I agree with the mayor's statements...
TheMercenary • Sep 2, 2011 12:31 pm
Pico and ME;754102 wrote:
Remember though, the police and fire department were 100% behind the teachers union during the fight. Perhaps they would provide their services free of charge.
If I were mayor I would prohibit that. And they would still be using city property, uniforms, trucks, gas, etc, and such would not be allowed without the approval of the mayor.
infinite monkey • Sep 2, 2011 12:33 pm
If I were King of the Forest, Not queen, not duke, not prince.
TheMercenary • Sep 2, 2011 12:37 pm
I am sure the mayor has already stated his intentions on the issue... I can live with that.
Urbane Guerrilla • Sep 18, 2011 4:01 am
Wisconsin Schools Buck Union, Cut Health Costs. Substantial savings.
classicman • Sep 18, 2011 8:21 pm
The contract required the school district to purchase health insurance from a company called WEA Trust. The creation of Wisconsin's largest teachers union -- "WEA" stands for Wisconsin Education Association -- WEA Trust made money when union officials used collective bargaining agreements to steer profitable business its way.
The problem for Hartland-Lakeside was that WEA Trust was charging significantly higher rates than the school district could find on the open market.


from another article...

In the Hartland-Lakeside district, which faced a loss in state aid of $1.3 million, savings from staff contributions to pension and insurance yielded about $900,000. The district had reduced its budget through a reorganization effort the year before and also found $400,000 in other savings to replace the lost state aid.

Heading into the 2011-2012 school year, the district has been able to replace all retiring teachers (nearly 15 percent of the staff). In addition, Hartland-Lakeside has expanded its charter schools, and has put in place an innovative third and fourth grade virtual parent classroom. Enrichment opportunities for students, including extra support for students who need help, have been expanded, according to Superintendent Glenn Schilling.

Stephen Schiell, superintendent in Amery, says there’s no catastrophe in his district, either. “Next year will again be a challenge without the federal jobs money (federal stimulus money from the Obama administration) ... Not having to bargain with the union will make it easier to balance. Remember, we can always have our employees pay more for their benefits. The law does not have a cap.”

Read more: http://host.madison.com/news/local/education/blog/article_4d0c0d30-cdd7-11e0-93dd-001cc4c03286.html#ixzz1YLxJumVY