deck

jimhelm • Jul 17, 2011 9:10 pm
I'm building a deck at my friend's house. The township he lives in puts people through some serious waiting. I had to submit detailed plans and 3 copies of the design with the permit application. Then they said the back edge of the deck was too close to the rear property line, and had to be shortened. They want 25 feet between the two, and 10 ft from the sides. The plans were finally approved this week, but they want to do 3 inspections. First one after the footers are dug, but before they are poured.... then once it's framed. then a final.

here is the 3 d model i built in Google Sketch up..... I had to remove the landings, though.....because they would be considered part of the deck. balls. so, here is the original model without the railing:
Griff • Jul 17, 2011 9:17 pm
3 inspections... scamming wankers.
monster • Jul 17, 2011 9:35 pm
3 inspections is standard here too..... I agree with your summary, Griff.
classicman • Jul 17, 2011 10:07 pm
We typically have one inspection here.

A friend in Md recently built a new deck last fall. He submitted all the paperwork, was approved and upon completion the inspector said he wanted it all dissembled and replaced using only the approved nails. NAILS??? My friend used all Azec material and Kreg decking screws. My neighbor said a lot under his breath and then a simple "yeh sure." He said they haven't heard from the inspector since.
Aliantha • Jul 17, 2011 10:12 pm
My kids have been helping my dad build a deck platform at the edge of his dam so they can just jump straight in. It's pretty awesome. I'll try and put a pic up a bit later on if anyone's interested.

eta: They didn't worry about getting any council approvals. They just built it. :D
jimhelm • Jul 18, 2011 9:22 am
Yeah, when I built my deck, I went, sat down with Jack McKewen, the borough manager, sketched it out with approximate measurements, and paid him $65. Then I built it. The end.
classicman • Jul 18, 2011 10:53 am
Ahhh the good ole days ...

[COLOR="White"]too much[/COLOR] go[COLOR="White"]v't [/COLOR]regulation

link
Griff • Jul 18, 2011 4:12 pm
[soapbox] Seriously, if you want to put people to work, put an unnecessary regulator out of work. That would have an actual multiplier effect. [/soapbox] Now back to our regularly scheduled cool home project.
glatt • Jul 18, 2011 4:41 pm
Unnecessary regulators suck. But so does an improperly built deck that collapses when you have a party and 15 people are standing on it. Decks seem to be more susceptible to collapse than buildings. I'm not sure why that is. I never remember hearing of building just collapsing under the weight of people, but I do remember hearing of half a dozen news stories where decks collapsed and people were hurt.

Three inspections is overkill in most deck situations, but I can see how if a finished deck has hidden framing, you would want to inspect the framing before it was covered. Maybe the inspectors are just not interested in crawling around under low decks and maybe taller decks often finish the space a little underneath so that the framing is somewhat hidden. Tall decks have the most potential danger, so they should be thoroughly inspected.

Inspections can't catch everything though. I was helping a guy build his deck once, and he was using hangers for the joists. He used the short nails to hang the hangers to the posts, and the long nails to nail through the joists. I saw him do it and corrected him, but an inspector wouldn't have been able to see the length of the nail based on the visible nail head.
jimhelm • Jul 18, 2011 4:59 pm
YEah... I have no problem with the inspections... just the time it took to get the friggin permit in the first place. I'm hoping that they are prompt coming out to do them, is all.

I get it that they need to make sure the holes are deep enough, and that there are enough to support the deck, and that the framing is sturdy enough. I'll be using screws and treated wood for the inner framing, but nails and clear cedar for the visible decking and railing. It's 16' x 18' and the lumber alone cost $5400. And I shopped around for the best price. DiamondM lumberyard is supplying it.

The homeowner has a mason doing the footers tomorrow. I can't wait to get started.
plthijinx • Jul 18, 2011 5:54 pm
one thing i like about texass, just do it. yeah, they want you to call before digging/trenching, as long as you aren't in a right of way, phuck it. build it. funny thing is this tho, the HOA will screw you over before the govt will here.
plthijinx • Jul 18, 2011 5:55 pm
nice plans btw jim, would love to see the pics of the build if you can...
glatt • Jul 18, 2011 8:47 pm
I have to agree. Those plans look good. They are well thought out. Looks like they even take a hill by the steps into account. Too bad the landings got axed. I really liked those.
Clodfobble • Jul 18, 2011 9:45 pm
plthijinx wrote:
one thing i like about texass, just do it. yeah, they want you to call before digging/trenching, as long as you aren't in a right of way, phuck it. build it. funny thing is this tho, the HOA will screw you over before the govt will here.


That's just what I was thinking... "Inspections and permits? For just a backyard deck? That's crazy!"
jimhelm • Jul 19, 2011 12:29 am
Building it virtually first illuminated several design flaws. I would have put the footers in the wrong spots, for one, and the railings would have looked shoddy....and just the way the outer box of the frame fits together changed the overall length by 3 inches... Again changing the location of the footers. Sketch up allows you to look at it from all angles and it predicts line location, centers you, tell you where the x y and z axes are... Fucking sweetest free program evar..... Like as far as meat space application goes. I would love to design decks for a living.


I should have been an architect. /costanza.

I'm going to have to just put a big wide set of steps on the face, and break it around the corner to meet a little one. He has a covered porch right next to the deck that might have been an issue with those landings anyway. I can't seem to upload pics off this iPad so I will post before shots later. Thankfully, I took a few shots with the regular camera too.
jimhelm • Jul 19, 2011 12:53 am
ok... so, here's the before shot:
jimhelm • Jul 19, 2011 12:54 am
and a very quick and dirty drop in of the plan just to see what it will be like...
Griff • Jul 19, 2011 6:45 am
plthijinx;745106 wrote:
one thing i like about texass, just do it. yeah, they want you to call before digging/trenching, as long as you aren't in a right of way, phuck it. build it. funny thing is this tho, the HOA will screw you over before the govt will here.


People that need to control people will end up using whichever system is in place, be it a HOA or a government. tw is a big advocate of state level regulation which we've mostly managed to avoid in PA. Around here we just build. Rural people hate this stuff because we often don't have the economic power or the inclination to have "professionals" do our construction.
tw • Jul 19, 2011 11:32 am
Griff;745191 wrote:
tw is a big advocate of state level regulation which we've mostly managed to avoid in PA.
You are confusing state level standards with regulations.

For example, those doors open to a drop. Standards dictate that a rail be installed outside those doors so that someone does not open the door and walk off the ledge.
classicman • Jul 19, 2011 12:14 pm
Would those standards be regulated in some way, by someone?
xoxoxoBruce • Jul 19, 2011 11:15 pm
Just referred to by the lawyers after somebody gets hurt.
Spexxvet • Jul 20, 2011 9:11 am
Seriously, what could happen without permits and inspections? :rolleyes:
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classicman • Jul 20, 2011 11:26 am
Great videos spexx. I especially liked the last one. Anyone stupid enough to think that 1, one 4x4 is gonna support a deck...
I still agree with glatt
Unnecessary regulators suck.
But so does an improperly built deck that collapses when you have a party and 15 people are standing on it.
Pico and ME • Jul 20, 2011 11:38 am
Which would mean that regulations for decks aren't unnecessary, and in fact protect you from unscrupulous contractors or ignorant do-it-yourselfers.
classicman • Jul 20, 2011 11:43 am
Did you miss this part?
[SIZE="7"][COLOR="Red"]Unnecessary[/COLOR] regulators suck. [/SIZE] :eyebrow:


And as discussed previously there are some serious redundancies involved depending upon where you live.
I never said there should be NO REGULATION.
glatt • Jul 20, 2011 12:01 pm
So anyway Jim, I haven't used Google sketchup that much. I did design a bookcase with it to maximize the size of the bookcase with the wood that I had. It was pretty helpful. Making that virtual bookcase probably took an hour or so, and it only had like 8 pieces of wood in it. How long does it take to make that deck in sketchup? There must be a hundred different pieces. Is there a fast way to draw in all that decking? Like after you make one deck board the perfect dimensions, can you copy it and just keep pasting them in? Or do you draw each one individually?

Do you use a mouse, or that fancy drawing pad you have?
infinite monkey • Jul 20, 2011 12:49 pm
*snort*
jimhelm • Jul 20, 2011 1:11 pm
I emailed you the file glatt. If you 'save copy as' you can play with it. For some reason it makes the file read only when you email it or upload it. Sketch up does have a feature called 'components' where you could build each type of board and the assemble them.... But I am just figuring that out, and getting the pieces to line up exactly where you want them is frustrating. I just drew it in two dimensions and used the extrude tool to make three d objects. Oh and the mouse is definitely the way to go. The zooming in and out with the wheel is a big part of navigating around the drawing.

It would be really cool to get fast at it and go into business custom creating decks for people. I would need a good crew of carpenters, and a lawyer to cover my ass..... But I bet the rich would love to pay for a Jim Hjelm original deck.... I mean Helm. Especially if they could have input on the design ... I could spend a hour or two consulting and creating it before their eyes in sketch up.... For a moderate fee upfront, of course. And then recommend my crew to make it real, or just consult and or physically contribute further if they decide to DIY...

I'd like that very much. If I had any kind of regular free time I might have a go at that idea. Maybe Bruce (the friend who's deck this is.....and No,not that Bruce.... He has no hugs and kisses for you).... BuT anyway... Maybe he'll tell two friends and They'll tell two friends.....

I made friends with Lois in the Cherry Hill Zoning Office..... Flirting with women in positions of authority is a reflex for me at this point..... So if I can get local gigs maybe .....?


Ah.... It is to dream...
glatt • Jul 20, 2011 1:56 pm
jimhelm;745485 wrote:
getting the pieces to line up exactly where you want them is frustrating.


That's where I always had trouble. I think there was a place where you could type in numbers into a box to get things the exact dimensions you want, but it's been a while since I played with it.

Thanks for sending the file. I'mma play with it a bit.
Clodfobble • Jul 21, 2011 12:40 am
Mr. Clod used Sketchup to design an arcade cabinet he was going to build. It worked like a charm on all those not-perpendicular angles those things have.
jimhelm • Jul 22, 2011 2:20 pm
I am on my way to go pour concrete footers. My cars thermometer says it is 104 degrees out. This is really gonna suck.
Griff • Jul 22, 2011 3:51 pm
I don't even want to sit on my deck in this weather. [COLOR="White"]It'd probably just fall down or explode into flames anyway since we don't have housing inspectors here.[/COLOR]
jimhelm • Jul 23, 2011 9:00 am
so, yeah... moving wheelbarrows of concrete 30 yards from the driveway to the back of the house in 103 (actual) degree weather is a LOT of fun.

I don't know how I manage to do it, but I always seem to end up doing outside chores on the hottest days of the summer.

anyway.... I survived.

Here's the footers:
HungLikeJesus • Jul 23, 2011 9:40 am
What did you use to get all the tops at the same height?
Trilby • Jul 23, 2011 10:00 am
Be honest, jim.

There are hobos buried under there.
Pete Zicato • Jul 23, 2011 11:27 am
HungLikeJesus;746074 wrote:
What did you use to get all the tops at the same height?

Don't know how Jim did it, but a water level will do the job.
Spexxvet • Jul 23, 2011 11:54 am
Could also use a surveyor's transit.
zippyt • Jul 23, 2011 12:10 pm
Oh come on ,
String line with a level
jimhelm • Jul 23, 2011 12:52 pm
The tops are not at the same height. the mook that was hired to do the holes just bulled through it. truck is here, gotta pour it...

its ok... i'll make the legs the proper length to level the deck. and i'll hide those tubes in boxes.
HungLikeJesus • Jul 23, 2011 1:57 pm
That's what I thought, based on the picture.
jimhelm • Jul 24, 2011 1:56 am
The holes, the empty holes, the filled holes...
jimhelm • Jul 24, 2011 2:20 am
then you jam the form down into the concrete? and then top them off.

That's what the mason did.... In retrospect, I'm thinking that maybe it would have been better to put the tubes in cut to be flush with ground level.... back-fill with dirt, fill to level with the ground. I'm kind of bummed that I didn't slow him down and tell him what we were doing. I was warned that he was a bit of a blunderer, but this seemed such a basic job, that we figured he couldn't fuck it up. Plus, it literally WAS so fucking hot that all I could really spend my attention on was laying out the location of the bolts I'm putting in the exact spot...which i have no confidence of at this point... and how could there possibly have been this much sweat in my body? Forreals though... I really wish it had been nicer and less rushed by the huge ass concrete truck idling in the driveway while we carted loads back, and how fast it set up. It will serve, but elegant it is not. I'm going to have to cover that shit up.

Anyway... I'm reserving judgement until I can see what I've got after the deck is up.
jimhelm • Jul 24, 2011 2:22 am
and enough about the footers....
jimhelm • Aug 3, 2011 7:53 pm
We ended up having to chop one of those pillars off, because it was just too far out of line.

Here's the header.... It's the suckiest part of the job, because someone has to go into the crawl space and tighten the bolts up. That someone was not me.
jimhelm • Aug 3, 2011 7:56 pm
We're using Cedar on the outside(visible) portions, but treated innards to save $$.

Here, we have to span 18', so I used two boards of each kind, and offset the joint. The cedar in back is a 2x12, the treated wood is a 2x10. I counter sunk the bolt heads so that they don't interfere with the joists that will hang inside there.
jimhelm • Aug 3, 2011 8:01 pm
then we, dummy up the frame, and level it.
jimhelm • Aug 3, 2011 8:02 pm
measure the posts, and cut them level with the treated board( this is 1" below the cedar, so that when the decking goes down, it's flush.
jimhelm • Aug 3, 2011 8:04 pm
then attach the posts to the mounting brackets we installed on those pillars. This is Bruce's friend, JC. he was the lucky guy that got to go into the crawl space.
jimhelm • Aug 4, 2011 11:36 am
so, here's after we cut that one problem pillar off....
jimhelm • Aug 4, 2011 11:50 am
overall progress... I have the box up, and standing on it's own.... the girder and the rest of the posts are next.
glatt • Aug 4, 2011 11:51 am
Wait. You cut the concrete pillar off? How?
Trilby • Aug 4, 2011 12:02 pm
sweeeeet!

Or should I say


sweat?
jimhelm • Aug 4, 2011 12:26 pm
glatt;748549 wrote:
Wait. You cut the concrete pillar off? How?


i don't even know. it was gone when i got there Tuesday night. I had to smash the area flat with a big sledge hammer because it was all lumpy.
glatt • Aug 4, 2011 12:41 pm
It's looking good!
footfootfoot • Aug 4, 2011 12:51 pm
Nice.
kerosene • Aug 4, 2011 6:17 pm
Very nice, Jim. I never knew how much went into building one of those.
classicman • Aug 7, 2011 12:56 am
Looking real good Jim.
Pete Zicato • Aug 8, 2011 5:44 pm
You're a good friend, Jim. Nice job.
jimhelm • Aug 20, 2011 1:16 am
Getting the Joists prepped for hanging.... First I have to cut them all down 3 inches to 189". It's been raining. A LOT. This wood is wet. This wood is heavy. This wood is wet and heavy.
[CODE][/CODE]

2nd pic:

Joist hangers are hung. I squat down 24 times and eyeball it so that the bottom of that 2X10 should support the joist and have the bottom edges of the joist and the header board flush, or real close to flush. I only nail the left side for now. Once the joist is in place, I'll fasten the right side, and toe nail the joist itself. Today's joist hangers have angled holes in the sides that make toe nailing idiot proof. This is a convenience. I approve. In the foreground, you can see the centers post, and the beginning of the girder. That will be a double 2x10 on both sides of the posts. I needed a helper for that, and was working alone today, so I stopped trying. There is other stuff that I can do solo, so I did.
jimhelm • Aug 20, 2011 1:22 am
Crowning the joists after I cut them. Most boards are not perfect. There are a few truly straight boards, but they are the exception. Most will have a crown. this means that they curve slightly. If you look along the edge of a board, you can see it. If your eye is right in line, and you can see the close bit, and the far bit, but not the bit in the middle then the crown is on the opposite side. You want that side up in your construction, as the boards are less likely to sag under weight.

1. close bit, far bit
2. middle bit
3. mark the board so when I go to hang it, I don't have to do that again.
4. This is me with my protective eyewear and flared nostrils. Those boards are wet and heavy.
jimhelm • Aug 20, 2011 1:24 am
and there's 12 of them
classicman • Aug 20, 2011 1:27 am
Lookin real good Jim - the deck, not you. - Hang the effers and then charge the batteries for a zillion deckboards...
jimhelm • Aug 20, 2011 1:29 am
I have to get the thing inspected once it's framed. If it would stop raining.... I had to quit at 5 today because of MORE rain.
Spexxvet • Aug 20, 2011 9:25 am
Jim, are you going to put a post under the header attatched to the house?
jimhelm • Aug 20, 2011 9:57 am
yes. I had designed it with 3 6X6es along there, but I'm thinking that one in each corner will suffice. Attaching that center post would be tricky. I'd need a damn near 20 inch bolt to go through the post, the header and the house. Or angle brackets.... I think it'll hold. here... hold my beer.
jimhelm • Aug 25, 2011 4:59 pm
I spent most of my day yesterday working on the deck...

I had one of the kids from the detail dept over for a couple hours helping me hang the girder. I doubled up 2x10s on both sides of the post. This will support the middle of the joists. The ends tuck up inside the outer 2x12 cedar boards on the outside, but sit under the inner 2x10 treated boards. More support for the load bearing sides.

The pictures here are taken before I put the bolts in. There are 2 12" bolts running through both girders and the 6x6 posts. I also put the post in the background of the 1st pic in and bolted it to the side of the deck (up by the house) There's one on each side (spex)... I have more pics at home on my camera...these were on my phone... I got the joists hung and saddled... the guy from the early pics will be going back and putting all the nails in tonight if the rain lets up. Then it gets inspected and I can start decking it. Bruce wants the decking diagonal (I opened my stupit mouth and said it would look cool) so... then the railing and stairs and THEN the party! w00t!
glatt • Aug 25, 2011 5:07 pm
looking good!
tw • Aug 25, 2011 5:24 pm
glatt;752684 wrote:
looking good!
I ballpark that deck uses wood designed to carry at least 9 tons. However I don't know if bolts are rated to carry that load. That might be the weak point.

9 tons is maybe 60 actively moving people.
jimhelm • Aug 25, 2011 7:42 pm
the bolts are 5/8 x 9 around the edges and 5/8 x 12 in the girder. there are 2 bolts in each girder post. there are 3 in the corners and 2 in the front center post.

like this, but longer
ZenGum • Aug 25, 2011 8:06 pm
Jim, that is an excellent looking deck, really well built...


... except for how that other doofus cocked up the footings. If I were living there that would really bug me. But I'm a bit OCD.
classicman • Aug 25, 2011 8:57 pm
ZenGum;752710 wrote:
Jim, that is an excellent looking deck, really well built...


agreed.


... except for how that other doofus cocked up the footings. If I were living there that would really bug me. But I'm a bit OCD.


You won't see them once the decking is installed.
BigV • Aug 25, 2011 9:47 pm
I love it too jimhelm. Very well built.

You realize that in grifftopia though this would be the popsicle stick scale model...
jimhelm • Aug 25, 2011 11:57 pm
ZenGum;752710 wrote:
Jim, that is an excellent looking deck, really well built...


... except for how that other doofus cocked up the footings. If I were living there that would really bug me. But I'm a bit OCD.


That corner will be concealed by the stairs, actually. And I plan to box in the other pillars with leftover wood. Wendy can plant flowers or ferns in them.

Had a mis queue tonight. The guy that tacked the joists in tonight used interior nails instead of the 12p galvanized nails I had left there. So Bruce had to go back and pull them all.... Sigh. Do over.
Griff • Aug 26, 2011 7:05 am
BigV;752723 wrote:
I love it too jimhelm. Very well built.

You realize that in grifftopia though this would be the popsicle stick scale model...


Ha! That is a beautiful deck and nicer than mine!
jimhelm • Aug 27, 2011 11:22 pm
ok, so hanging the girder.... First I just nailed it up to set it in place. I had help with this part.

then i counter sink ( DO THIS FIRST!) using the big 1 1/4 paddle bit. the hole should be as deep as the washer and the head of the bolt so that it fits flush. thusly:
jimhelm • Aug 27, 2011 11:29 pm
here's the bolt, washers ( the small one goes into the countersunk hole ), the drill bits and the knickety knickety nut. and the other side. long bolt. the girders are 3" each, and the post is 5 1/2"
jimhelm • Aug 27, 2011 11:36 pm
once the girder is attached to the posts, I was able to start stringing the joists. You can see that it got dark on me... I worked form 1pm till 9:30 on Weds. Had a really fun time. It's so much better when you can SEE progress.
classicman • Aug 28, 2011 10:53 am
Lookin great Jim.
HungLikeJesus • Aug 28, 2011 12:08 pm
When it's finished, how much space will there be between the top of the deck and the bottom of the door?
classicman • Aug 28, 2011 12:11 pm
I think he said earlier that the deck boards will almost match the bottom of the french doors. (too lazy to look for it though)
classicman • Aug 28, 2011 12:16 pm
Just for you HLJ - see this post.
Undertoad • Aug 28, 2011 12:18 pm
Let me know when you're ready to attack a second floor project. Advanced level of difficulty.
HungLikeJesus • Aug 28, 2011 12:54 pm
classicman;753123 wrote:
Just for you HLJ - see this post.

Very interesting - thanks.
classicman • Aug 28, 2011 1:47 pm
Yeh, I like the way he did it as well. I don't remember how mine was done, but it wasn't that fancy/complex...
jimhelm • Aug 28, 2011 6:36 pm
HungLikeJesus;753121 wrote:
When it's finished, how much space will there be between the top of the deck and the bottom of the door?


Probably about 3/4 to an inch. I will most likely put a sill there. I did that at my house.
jimhelm • Aug 28, 2011 6:38 pm
I've gotta get flashing to put up under the siding and the decking.
footfootfoot • Aug 28, 2011 7:51 pm
Dude, I hate to bum your stone but if that's Pressure Treated wood you need to use double dipped galvanized or that shit's coming down within the decade.

Sorry Bro.
http://www.strongtie.com wrote:
Are these alternative products more corrosive than CCA-C?

Testing has indicated that some of the alternative products are more corrosive to steel and some protective coatings applied over steel than Chromated Copper Arsenate (CCA-C). Contact the treated wood chemical supplier for more information and see the Preservative Treated Wood Technical Bulletin (PDF).
What metals and protective coatings does the Pressure Treated Wood Industry recommend for use with these newer products?

Hot-dip galvanized or stainless steel fasteners, anchors and hardware are recommended by the Pressure Treated Wood Industry for use with treated wood. This has been the position of this industry for years and their position has not changed with the transition to the alternative copper-based products. In the past this industry did not address the required levels of galvanizing, however most of those in the industry now provide information regarding the minimum level of galvanizing that should be used.
The thicker the galvanized coating the longer the expected service life of the fastener, connector, anchor, or other hardware will be.

Electroplated / electro galvanized and mechanically galvanized coatings should not be considered to be hot-dip galvanized. (Class 55, or higher, mechanical galvanizing provides galvanizing equivalent to the hot-dip galvanizing used on connectors and fasteners. Ref. ASTM B695 for additional information.)

It is also worth noting that the galvanized coating thickness varies depending on the galvanizing process used. Remember, the thicker the galvanized coating, the longer the expected service life of the steel will be.

Refer to the different chemical manufacturers and/or treaters as well for their recommendations. A list of trade names is included at the bottom of this page.

Are all stainless steels acceptable for use with pressure-treated wood?

All stainless steels may not be acceptable for use with pressure treated wood. Testing has shown that Types 304 and 316 stainless steels perform very well with CCA-C, ACQ-C, ACQ-D Carbonate, CBA-A, and CA-B treated woods. Type 316 stainless steel contains slightly more nickel than other grades, plus 2-4% molybdenum, giving it better corrosion resistance in high chloride environments prone to cause pitting such as environments exposed to sea water.
What is hot-dip galvanizing?

Hot-dip galvanizing is a process of providing a protective coating (zinc) over bare steel. The bare steel is cleaned, pickled, fluxed, then dipped in a molten bath of zinc and allowed to cool prior to inspection and shipping. Additional information is available at www.galvinfo.com. Some anchors and fasteners can be hot-dip galvanized. Steel connectors can be hot-dip galvanized (See below: “What is the difference between Simpson's Hot-Dip Galvanized (HDG) products and products that are hot-dip galvanized after fabrication?” for additional information.)
Terms such as G90 & G185 reflect the galvanized coating thickness that meet the ASTM A653 specification for sheet steel.

What is Mechanical Galvanizing?

Mechanical galvanizing is a process of providing a protective coating (zinc) over bare steel. The bare steel is cleaned and loaded into a tumbler containing non-metallic impact beads and zinc powder. As the tumbler is spun, the zinc powder mechanically adheres to the parts. The zinc coating has “good” durability, but has less abrasion resistance than hot-dip galvanized zinc coatings since it does not metalurgically bond with the steel. Some anchors and fasteners can be mechanically galvanized.



p.2 of http://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/articles/new-pressure-treated-wood-decks.aspx]Use corrosion-resistant nails and joist hangers
Unfortunately, boosting the copper content in lumber not only makes the new pressure-treated wood more expensive than the old, but it also makes the new stuff significantly more corrosive -- 5 times more to common steel, according to American Wood Preservers Association (AWPA) test results.

Most people already know that they should use corrosion-resistant nails, screws, and connectors when they're building with pressure-treated wood. But now the stakes are higher. Due to the high risk of galvanic reaction between the copper-impregnated wood and any dissimilar metals, fasteners and flashings should be stainless steel and copper whenever possible. At the very least, you need to use better grades of galvanized fasteners. Unfortunately, the fastener grades aren't always marked on the boxes of nails and screws.

Electrogalvanized stock is rated with a class scale that ranges from 5 to 110. Hot-dipped galvanization ratings are based on the actual weight of the coating. For example, a G-60 rating means that there's 0.60 oz. of zinc per sq. ft. of metal.

The G-60 and G-90 hot-dipped coatings are what we've been using until now. But engineers suggest stepping up to the heavier G-185 coatings for hot-dipped galvanized products, and they recommend class ratings of 40 or above when using electrogalvanized fasteners, such as expansion bolts.

Currently, G-185 is the best galvanized protection that you can buy. Simpson's ZMax line and USP Structural Connectors' Triple Zinc line both are rated at G-185. As for nails and screws, many of the composite coatings that are currently available are still good for the new treatments (see www.osmose.comto read about fastener recommendations), but you should verify this by carefully reading the label.

Perhaps the most important point to keep in mind relating to copper-based wood treatments and galvanic corrosion is to avoid aluminum flashings altogether. Aluminum corrodes quickly in the presence of high copper concentrations.
Griff • Aug 28, 2011 8:06 pm
fauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.
jimhelm • Aug 28, 2011 10:38 pm
Actually, that's good timing. The guy that nailed the joists in used interior nails, so we are removing them. We just bought galvanized nails but have not gone back thru and nailed yet. They didn't have stainless nails at the home despot. Not sure if the nails we got are double dipped, but I doubt it. I guess I will order some stainless nails tomorrow.
jimhelm • Aug 28, 2011 10:39 pm
And will make sure to get copper flashing...
BigV • Aug 29, 2011 1:15 am
hey jimhelm,

why bother countersinking the bolt heads? it doesn't look like you've countersunk the nuts, and it looks like where the bolt heads are they don't foul anything... Or, I'm just not putting this all together in my head wrong...
jimhelm • Aug 29, 2011 6:26 am
In the girder? Cuz the bolts just reach that way.
BigV • Aug 29, 2011 11:37 am
ah. that's an *excellent* reason!
footfootfoot • Aug 30, 2011 9:12 am
jimhelm;753260 wrote:
In the girder? Cuz the bolts just reach that way.


Gotta replace those bolts too, Homes.
jimhelm • Aug 30, 2011 9:51 am
what if i took them out and dipped them in liquid plastic, or painted them... and reinserted them? The issue is the copper used in the wood reacting with the steel of the bolts, right? they didn't have galvanized bolts that big.
footfootfoot • Aug 30, 2011 10:02 am
As long as you won't be the guy who has to crawl around under there with all the cat poop when the time comes to try to replace them with bottle jacks all over the place and spiders and shit then yeah, paint and liquid plastic will be great.

It's more than just the copper, the stuff is also very corrosive. I'll scan an article and post some pics later today.

The metal just rusts away.
footfootfoot • Aug 30, 2011 10:08 am
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/PDF/Free/021160082.pdf
glatt • Aug 30, 2011 10:09 am
I predict that in a few years, when somebody dies because their deck falls apart, Home Depot will find itself in court trying to explain why it sells the new pressure treated wood, but not any fasteners or hardware that will work with it.
jimhelm • Aug 30, 2011 10:45 am
well, glad I'm glad I used stainless screws. I got some polymer coated screws too...

the bolts are what bothers me now. Thanks for the info, foot, you sarcastic bitch. I will have to see about replacing them before we deck it.
footfootfoot • Aug 30, 2011 11:39 am
yer welcome. And as I always say, "If it weren't for sarcasm I wouldn't have any casm at all."
Undertoad • Aug 30, 2011 11:42 am
glatt;753485 wrote:
Home Depot will find itself in court trying to explain why it sells the new pressure treated wood, but not any fasteners or hardware that will work with it.


It will be a class-action suit, as memos will be leaked showing that H.D. wanted to sell more expensive non-wood composite deck materials AND to sell that as a replacement for inferior wood to all the owners whose decks fell apart.
BigV • Aug 30, 2011 12:39 pm
jimhelm;753481 wrote:
what if i took them out and dipped them in liquid plastic, or painted them... and reinserted them? The issue is the copper used in the wood reacting with the steel of the bolts, right? [SIZE="4"]they didn't have galvanized bolts that big.[/SIZE]


http://www.fisheriessupply.com/productgroupdetail.aspx?page=2&cid=122035&bid=405

http://www.fisheriessupply.com/productgroupdetail.aspx?page=2&cid=121759&bid=405

They're right down the street. I am certain they ship all over the freakin world. I have purchased a lot of stuff from them over the years, including some stainless. They're great. If you'd like me to be your eyes and hands, I'm willing.
jimhelm • Aug 30, 2011 1:43 pm
are those 5/8 inch 3 foot rods for $20.51?

i found them at Home Depot in 2 ft lengths for $9.24

just want to be sure I'm reading the Fisheries chart correctly...
BigV • Aug 30, 2011 3:22 pm
looks like it.

you buy it in a store for boats/ships/fisheries, there's a premium. impossible to say from the info given what the stainless steel is, there are differences, lost on me, check with perry winkle or xoxoxobruce maybe.

yes. more $$ at fisheries.
jimhelm • Aug 30, 2011 3:24 pm
I think I'll call the lumber yard where I got the wood and see what they have.
Perry Winkle • Aug 30, 2011 4:19 pm
I haven't done anything with stainless yet, so I'm very fuzzy on the details. If I recall correctly it's the chromium in stainless that makes it corrosion resistant. I think there are even some types of stainless that include titanium in the alloy, which makes me think they'd be even more corrosion resistant.
footfootfoot • Aug 30, 2011 4:26 pm
jimhelm;753549 wrote:
I think I'll call the lumber yard where I got the wood and see what they have.


You can use Lag screws
jimhelm • Aug 30, 2011 4:31 pm
the lumber yard has them in stock. Bruce will go get them tonight. I will return the ones I (he) bought that are no good... and if they won't take them, I'll eat it. My bad.

They're calling it the 'Christmas Deck' did I mention that?

I figgerd I'd have it done no later than Aug 1 when I started it. whook.

I just have no time.
jimhelm • Oct 26, 2011 9:31 pm
remember this thread?

i've been taking pics, but never take the time to update you.....

gotta go back and see where I left off.
jimhelm • Oct 26, 2011 10:02 pm
This is the head scratchinest part of a deck.

I guess I didn't take any pictures of how I measured the cuts. shame. that might have been useful to someone, and it would actually take me 1000 words to describe how I did it.

cliff notes version:

You take a 2x12 and lean it up outside of the edge of the deck, then use a level to make a horizontal line from the outside corner of the bottom of that board before you move it. cut that line. this gives you the ability to set it down on that cut, and strike a line where it meets the deck. cut that. You have to figure out how steep you want them first, and allow for 6-7" risers and 9-11" tread depths. ( this is running right down your face, right?) also, leave a notch so you can mount them....

blah blah blah..

anyhow... here are the stringers all next to each other, and temporarily screwed to a couple plates to secure them while I cut a channel that I will use to mount a brace:
[ATTACH]34875[/ATTACH]

So I use a circular saw and cut a bunch of cuts with the blade set to the right depth:
[ATTACH]34876[/ATTACH]

then I break off all the bits left, and chisel it smooth:
[ATTACH]34877[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]34878[/ATTACH]
jimhelm • Oct 26, 2011 10:18 pm
On the outsides, I sister a stringer ( The board with the zig zag cuts ) to a 2x12 like I described above. This gives it strength to support the stairs, and conceals the edges of the boards from the side view. Some decks just have exposed stringers, but I want this one to look more polished.

[ATTACH]34880[/ATTACH]

So, you have to space stringers like joists....16" apart. The stringers are treated wood, the outside, visible boards are cedar. The cedar is 2x12, the treated 2x10. That made measuring a little trickier.

Oh, I also use another board at the top to mount to the deck. It's a 2x12 cedar board, which i set up to mount it to the face of the deck, drilled, and bolted 14" apart, up down pattern.... then removed it and used that to assemble the stairs on the ground.

here's the mounting board:
[ATTACH]34882[/ATTACH]

I attached that to the stringers, and used that channel i cut to set a 2x4 in. the 2x4 sits inside the 2x12, but I will need to rip another one in half and screw it up along the edge of the underside of the 2x12 in order to conceal that brace from the side view.

[ATTACH]34879[/ATTACH]

mounting the assembled stairs was a job. heave ho.

I cut 3 of them shaped at the top to fit into the underside of the deck just so. If you look at the 1st pic in the previous post, you can see a weird shape at the left. that is the revers of what the underside looks like. I'll use that to attach it to the deck. I also did some internal mounts that i didn't photo.... but trust me.... It's not going to fall off.

[ATTACH]34881[/ATTACH]
HungLikeJesus • Oct 26, 2011 10:25 pm
Very cool!
jimhelm • Oct 26, 2011 10:26 pm
you can see that 3 of the feet got snapped off. ( Bruce did one, I did one, and the painter did one)...yeah, he had his house painted while this is going on....

ass
[ATTACH]34886[/ATTACH]



I reattached them with a single screw and filled in between with river jack to support the bottom step.
[ATTACH]34884[/ATTACH]

then I just cut the treads to fit, and nail em in.
[ATTACH]34885[/ATTACH]
jimhelm • Oct 26, 2011 10:33 pm
So... ever split a board where you're nailing near the edge?

Here's a good quick way of avoiding that:

Oh, and I used a little chip to set the distance from the edges so the nails are all in a nice looking row....
[ATTACH]34887[/ATTACH]

take the nail and flip it over.....give it a couple whacks like that where you are going to drive it in. This punches a weak spot down through the board or something magic happens or I don't know really what...
[ATTACH]34888[/ATTACH]

flip the nail over, and put it through. unless you're on a knot, or real dry wood, or huge nails... you will not split it.

I use a pilot hole if I am worried about that though...

[ATTACH]34889[/ATTACH]

oh, this also counter sinks the nail and it goes in flush without bruising the board.
jimhelm • Oct 26, 2011 10:40 pm
this saw I got has been invaluable. It's $25 and worth every penny. It's a Japanese design I think from way back....
[ATTACH]34890[/ATTACH]

It's got coarse teeth, but is super thin. cuts clean. great for finishing cuts where the circular saw's circular nature leaves you those fang shaped bits attached. also used it to shorten one of the posts by 1/4" and cut a groove into a stringer that got wonky.


[ATTACH]34891[/ATTACH]
jimhelm • Oct 26, 2011 10:42 pm
ok... thats all for now. just have to deck it and do the railings... then odds and ends like the door sill and stuff. Should be done by Thanksgiving!
Pico and ME • Oct 26, 2011 10:44 pm
3foot got snapped off?!!
zippyt • Oct 26, 2011 11:37 pm
Looken good dude
jimhelm • Oct 26, 2011 11:41 pm
Thanks, but do you like the deck?
HungLikeJesus • Oct 26, 2011 11:51 pm
What did you do about the bolts (from previous discussion).
jimhelm • Oct 26, 2011 11:59 pm
I replaced them with hot dipped galvanized bolts. What a pain in the ass that was..
Griff • Oct 27, 2011 6:42 am
Nice work Jim! I've only done stairs a few times, the first being in my house, so I end up rethinking it each time. I've been using Japanese saws for years and would never go back.
Trilby • Oct 27, 2011 6:42 am
Japanese saw. now I know what to get dad for Christmas.
glatt • Oct 27, 2011 8:44 am
Japanese saws are the shizzle. I have several western saws that I never use. I always reach for the Japanese saw.

As far as the splitting wood when you nail near the edge in end grain, I've heard that tipping the nail upside down and pounding on it flattens the point. When the point of the nail is flat, it breaks the wood fibers when you pound it into the wood. If it's sharp and pointy, it would try to go between the fibers, pushing them apart. Near the end of a board, this makes a split likely. So what you are doing is doubly good, since you are dulling the tip of the nail so it tears the fibers, but you are pre-tearing some of the fibers with the head of the nail too.
HungLikeJesus • Oct 27, 2011 10:34 am
Isn't that called a back saw - because it cuts on the backstroke (pull)?

Edit: I'm wrong - that's something else.
classicman • Oct 27, 2011 2:25 pm
Looks real good Jim. You're doin a heck of a job.
Oh and I love my Japanese saw. Do you have the flexible one as well?
jimhelm • Oct 27, 2011 2:51 pm
that one is real flexible. makes that wokka wokka sound if you wiggle it.... and rings like a sword coming free of a scabbard when you pull it out of a cut.
classicman • Oct 27, 2011 3:06 pm
Yeh they are pretty similar. This is like the "flexible" one I have. Its even more than the one you have pictured. I love them both. They're great when installing flooring and stuff. I like that this one only has the blade on one side too.
Pete Zicato • Oct 27, 2011 3:17 pm
Nice work, Jim. Where's you learn to do all this stuff?
infinite monkey • Oct 27, 2011 3:23 pm
Prison.
footfootfoot • Oct 27, 2011 3:38 pm
Pico and ME;767008 wrote:
3foot got snapped off?!!


I told him to be careful
footfootfoot • Oct 27, 2011 3:38 pm
infinite monkey;767126 wrote:
Prison.


He can even do a tattoo of a deck for you...
jimhelm • Oct 27, 2011 3:50 pm
Actually, I framed houses between high school and college ...for like 2 months...learned a good bit doing that.... and the rest I kind of just picked up as I went. Mostly just by doing it. I usually just assume I can figure it out, start with a loose plan and adjust as I go..... Used to piss jinx off. (shocker) This deck, I planned pretty carefully first.

I always have loved working with wood, and used to watch those New Yankee workshop shows... I built my own deck, my sister's, a few pieces of basic furniture, etc.
footfootfoot • Oct 27, 2011 4:20 pm
jimhelm;767020 wrote:
I replaced them with hot dipped galvanized bolts. What a pain in the ass that was..


Wrong hole.
HungLikeJesus • Oct 27, 2011 5:26 pm
jimhelm;767133 wrote:
Actually, I framed houses between high school and college ...


And that's how he ended up in ...

infinite monkey;767126 wrote:
Prison.
jimhelm • Oct 27, 2011 5:53 pm
ever do time, doc?

no... the houses went to prison, see... cuz i framed them, see? mmyeeeaaahhh
ZenGum • Oct 27, 2011 8:13 pm
I saw what you did there.
jimhelm • Nov 8, 2011 8:18 pm
here's the decking I had done. These 9 courses took me 6 or 7 hours in 2 sessions to do by my self.

[ATTACH]35205[/ATTACH]

I was being very very careful to make these joints nice and tight.
[ATTACH]35206[/ATTACH]

you can see that there is a pattern ...they break 2 joists apart
[ATTACH]35207[/ATTACH]

you can't even SEE some of the joints in these pictures.


So, the guy I'm doing it for let's his idiot buddy work on it and now it looks like crap. I'm burning. The part everyone will see.... And i have to work here 9-9 every day this week because dickhead is on vacation.

I'm just sick.
footfootfoot • Nov 8, 2011 8:30 pm
Tear out the asshole's work and leave the splintered boards in an obvious and inconvenient place. Throw a few empties on top of the stack too.

If he gives you any static, don't say anything but shit in an empty joint compound bucket.

Tell him you're from Canada and you don't play that shit.
jimhelm • Nov 8, 2011 8:35 pm
No, I'm going to talk to him tonight over drinks and make it clear that I don't want the guy working on it ... and if he does, I'm out. And don't tell anyone that I built it either. I don't want to be a dick, but if I let it go, it's gonna eat me up every time I go over there. He can wait one more goddamned week. I get an extra day off next week that I can devote to it... Most of it will be spent undoing the shit work Bill did..... I just hope I can save some of the wood. He did 3 pieces that only span one joist. dumbass. and there are a few that are a good half inch from the edge.
Undertoad • Nov 8, 2011 8:48 pm
Now see here, when you do my deck you will be the only one working on it, and I guarantee that.
xoxoxoBruce • Nov 8, 2011 8:52 pm
Seeing how this has dragged out for 4 months, I imagine the property owner is pretty frustrated.
jimhelm • Nov 8, 2011 10:16 pm
Cock
jimhelm • Nov 9, 2011 11:23 am
I got some pics of what I'll be fixing. Guy is forbidden from working on this any further. He's a painter. let him paint. He can even seal the deck when I'm done.... just don't let him touch my saw again.

He just paid no attention to what had been done, and very little to what he was doing....

[ATTACH]35225[/ATTACH]


I use a nail to keep the expansion gap the same everywhere. I just put the nail between the board I'm nailing and it's neighbor to keep them parallel. Boards have crowns... sometimes you have to bend them a little to make it work....

[ATTACH]35224[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]35226[/ATTACH]
infinite monkey • Nov 9, 2011 11:26 am
My buddies are construction guys, and one a really good woodworker. I know how pissed they get when someone else does a half-assed job, especially when it reflects on them.

It's going to suck to fix it but you're right jim, do it right or don't do it at all!

Do you know anything about building log homes? I'm pretty sure I'm going to win a lottery tonight.
jimhelm • Nov 9, 2011 11:27 am
There are several spots where the boards are not flush with the edge.... this is the worst...probably because the flashing leaps out at you and glints in the porch light...

[ATTACH]35228[/ATTACH]

and this is the piece de resistance....


[ATTACH]35227[/ATTACH]

I don't even know what to say about that... other than... cock.
jimhelm • Nov 9, 2011 11:27 am
infinite monkey;771325 wrote:
My buddies are construction guys, and one a really good woodworker. I know how pissed they get when someone else does a half-assed job, especially when it reflects on them.

It's going to suck to fix it but you're right jim, do it right or don't do it at all!

Do you know anything about building log homes? I'm pretty sure I'm going to win a lottery tonight.


enough to get started, and that's all I require! I'll learn the rest as I go!

call me!
footfootfoot • Nov 9, 2011 11:35 am
He needs a kick in the taco, paco.
Then sell him the undercoating, what a dick. I hate him.
footfootfoot • Nov 9, 2011 11:35 am
jimhelm;771327 wrote:
enough to get started, and that's all I require! I'll learn the rest as I go!

call me!


Me too.
infinite monkey • Nov 9, 2011 11:37 am
How about I start a Cellar commune?
footfootfoot • Nov 9, 2011 11:38 am
Awesome. I have a tofu and sprout casserole recipe somewhere...
ZenGum • Nov 9, 2011 7:12 pm
[late to thread]

Aw goddammit. That would piss me off at least as much as it is pissing you off. You were doing a really good job and this doofus has half-arsed it and cocked it up. The job is now behind where it was when you last left it, 'cause you're going to have to undo a lot of rubbish work before you can start up again.

Build it once, build it right, enjoy it for a long time.

I wouldn't even let that guy paint the deck. He obviously doens't take any pride in doing a good job.

Ceck.
jimhelm • Nov 9, 2011 7:35 pm
ZACKLY!
footfootfoot • Nov 9, 2011 7:46 pm
My buddy the electrician is fond of saying "Electrical wiring is not a hobby"

true for all the trades really, if one takes pride in his work.
BrianR • Nov 9, 2011 10:57 pm
In that last pic... was that... putty?
jimhelm • Nov 10, 2011 12:07 am
No..just sawdust and detritus.
HungLikeJesus • Nov 10, 2011 9:45 am
footfootfoot;771488 wrote:
My buddy the electrician is fond of saying "Electrical wiring is not a hobby"

true for all the trades really, if one takes pride in his work.


But isn't this a hobby for Jim?
jimhelm • Nov 10, 2011 10:57 am
It is. but it's also art.

I want him to be proud of the way the deck looks when he has friends over. I want to be proud of it.

I plan to continue to refine and augment it next spring, as well... We're talking about putting a set of rafters up over half of it to hang plants from (there's a name for that which escapes me)
glatt • Nov 10, 2011 11:18 am
You're doing excellent work on the deck, and the friend is lucky to have you. Construction projects can be frustrating for the owner, especially when there are delays, but this friend knew that you would be working on it in your spare time, weather permitting. If he wanted any old deck company to throw together a deck quickly, he could have gone that route and had a deck that looks just like every other deck out there.
Spexxvet • Nov 10, 2011 11:24 am
jimhelm;771617 wrote:
We're talking about putting a set of rafters up over half of it to hang plants from (there's a name for that which escapes me)


pergola?
infinite monkey • Nov 10, 2011 11:25 am
glatt;771626 wrote:
You're doing excellent work on the deck, and the friend is lucky to have you. Construction projects can be frustrating for the owner, especially when there are delays, but this friend knew that you would be working on it in your spare time, weather permitting. If he wanted any old deck company to throw together a deck quickly, he could have gone that route and had a deck that looks just like every other deck out there.


Nicely said, glatt.

He's right, the guy could've gone out and got a Deck in a Box, but he wanted a custom and well-done deck.
Spexxvet • Nov 10, 2011 11:27 am
Pergola, right?
HungLikeJesus • Nov 10, 2011 11:27 am
jimhelm;771617 wrote:
It is. but it's also art.

...


My point was that you don't need to be a professional to do a good job. Often the hobbyist can take more time and make something nicer than the professional can.
infinite monkey • Nov 10, 2011 11:31 am
Spexxvet;771635 wrote:
Pergola, right?


Mmmm, Pergola Alfredo. :yum:
jimhelm • Nov 10, 2011 11:55 am
Spexxvet;771635 wrote:
Pergola, right?

RIGHT!

HungLikeJesus;771636 wrote:
My point was that you don't need to be a professional to do a good job. Often the hobbyist can take more time and make something nicer than the professional can.

RIGHT!
infinite monkey;771633 wrote:
Nicely said, glatt.

He's right, the guy could've gone out and got a Deck in a Box, but he wanted a custom and well-done deck.

RIGHT!
infinite monkey • Nov 10, 2011 11:59 am
Three rights don't make it wrong.

One jim makes it right. ;)
jimhelm • Nov 10, 2011 12:03 pm
three rights make a left!
footfootfoot • Nov 10, 2011 2:36 pm
I put my deck in a box for you...
Lamplighter • Nov 10, 2011 3:39 pm
:)
infinite monkey • Nov 10, 2011 3:42 pm
infinite monkey;771633 wrote:
Nicely said, glatt.

He's right, the guy could've gone out and got a Deck in a Box, but he wanted a custom and well-done deck.


footfootfoot;771716 wrote:
I put my deck in a box for you...


Yes, do that.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! THAT'S...:eek:
HungLikeJesus • Nov 10, 2011 9:35 pm
infinite monkey;771650 wrote:
Three rights don't make it wrong.

One jim makes it right. ;)


Beautifully put! You're a poet, not just a monkey with a typewriter.
tw • Nov 10, 2011 10:28 pm
infinite monkey;771650 wrote:
Three rights don't make it wrong.
Three rights mean you are a lefty. Just don't tell UG.
jimhelm • Nov 14, 2011 4:53 pm
I made some progress on Sunday....

[ATTACH]35334[/ATTACH]

I only removed one of the 'bad' boards... I think I may run out of wood...

but I got almost to the front corner. I needed to make some positive progress. I'll start in pulling up the bad stuff tomorrow. I'm hoping to finish the decking between Tues and Weds, and hopefully get at least one section of railing up.

[ATTACH]35335[/ATTACH]
classicman • Nov 14, 2011 9:27 pm
Lookin good Jim. Yer getting there.
infinite monkey • Nov 15, 2011 9:01 am
That really looks nice.

I'll be proud to hire Jim and Foot Custom Log Homes when I win the lottery!
jimhelm • Nov 21, 2011 3:19 pm
ok, so I was able to incorporate a few of the boards the other guy put down....



[ATTACH]35442[/ATTACH]

The rest had to come up, but I was able to use most again... I just cut ends off and re laid them.

[ATTACH]35443[/ATTACH]
jimhelm • Nov 21, 2011 3:22 pm
Here's one of my helpers. He became interested in this for the first time Sunday.. Ripley helped a lot last week, and again yesterday... They both had fun, and earned $25!

[ATTACH]35444[/ATTACH]


He took charge of striking the lines for cuts. We had to use a template on the side where it butts up against the house, because you can't hang past the edge and eyball it like the other 3 sides.

[ATTACH]35445[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]35446[/ATTACH]

Here's the angle that all of the boards that meet that copper flashing have
[ATTACH]35447[/ATTACH]
TheMercenary • Nov 21, 2011 3:23 pm
Looking good.
jimhelm • Nov 21, 2011 3:25 pm
getting close to the corner! It's looking better and better!
[ATTACH]35449[/ATTACH]

Spencer and Ripley were picking the boards for color and texture.\

And It's Done!

[ATTACH]35450[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]35451[/ATTACH]

Here's the Happy homeowner, and My helpers!

[ATTACH]35452[/ATTACH]
infinite monkey • Nov 21, 2011 3:26 pm
It's gorgeous! And great kids!
TheMercenary • Nov 21, 2011 3:26 pm
What are you going to seal it with? I found Behr brand worked the best, I think it is from Lowes.
glatt • Nov 21, 2011 3:33 pm
Those are really tight and uniform joints at the flashing. Good work.
jimhelm • Nov 21, 2011 3:46 pm
infinite monkey;774555 wrote:
It's gorgeous! And great kids!


You know, my favorite part of my whole day yesterday was overhearing Spencer teaching Ripley how to make the line with the template. It made me smile ear to ear.
infinite monkey • Nov 21, 2011 3:48 pm
Which one is older?

I know firsthand how great having a brother is, even in adulthood. :)

Very good day for you.
jimhelm • Nov 21, 2011 3:48 pm
TheMercenary;774557 wrote:
What are you going to seal it with? I found Behr brand worked the best, I think it is from Lowes.

I'm gonna let it sit this winter, and then in the Spring, I'll power wash it, sand it and then seal it. I'll look into what kind is best.... It looks so nice after it rains.
glatt;774559 wrote:
Those are really tight and uniform joints at the flashing. Good work.


Thanks! That's going to be visible, so it had to be just right.
jimhelm • Nov 21, 2011 3:49 pm
infinite monkey;774569 wrote:
Which one is older?

I know firsthand how great having a brother is, even in adulthood. :)

Very good day for you.

Spence is 13, Ippy is 11.

They're pretty tight. I hope that relationship lasts their lifetimes.
infinite monkey • Nov 21, 2011 3:51 pm
I bet it will. My brother is two years older than I am, too (really a year and a half as the crow flies.) He's my rock.
jimhelm • Nov 21, 2011 6:40 pm
here it is wet:

[ATTACH]35459[/ATTACH]

I hope it comes up this bright with the sealant. Mine was 4 years old before I finally got around to doing it,...but I THINK is looked this good...
monster • Nov 21, 2011 6:49 pm
Lovely. Is the "floor" finished now then? Just the railings to go?
jimhelm • Nov 21, 2011 6:53 pm
right!

and a few odds and ends.. I'm gonna make a 'sill' for the door out of a 2x12, and perhaps a piece of 'molding' along the house side so that copper is covered. maybe.
zippyt • Nov 21, 2011 7:18 pm
Put them youngens to work !!!
Make them EARN their keep !!!

Decks Looken great !!!
classicman • Nov 21, 2011 8:38 pm
Very well done, Jim.
jimhelm • Nov 28, 2011 8:42 pm
ok! Railings!

I lay out the frame for the box that goes on the inside of the railing. 8' 2x4 cedar boards at top and bottom, 29" pieces at each end and in the center.

[ATTACH]35540[/ATTACH]

then, on the outside they get a 38" piece that will sit flush on top of the outer frame. and a 49.5" that goes down the side and bolts on. I beveled the edges of those 1 1/2" from the end on a 45 deg angle.

[ATTACH]35541[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]35542[/ATTACH]

Then I attach the balusters. I cut 2 triangular pieces of scrap wood at 3" width, and centered them on a baluster and screwed them in. I use that to space my balusters. i flip it over for each new baluster because there is a slight difference in the width of the two spacer pieces... this keeps that slight diff from growing into a noticeable one. I also check for plumb with my level after 8 or 10 just to keep on track.

[ATTACH]35543[/ATTACH]
jimhelm • Nov 28, 2011 8:48 pm
then I top the railing with 2x6 clear cedar. I drill up through the 2x4x8 that was the inside of the box i mentioned in the previous post. I go up about 2 inches into it with a large bit that the head of the screw will fit into. then i tap it the rest of the way, and put a 3" screw into the railing from underneath.

the corner is a simple 45 degree angle, making sure to use the same piece of wood, and matching the grain up around the corner.

[ATTACH]35544[/ATTACH]

we finished the railing part on Sunday. That's the baluster i used to space the others leaning up there. you can see one of the triangular pieces.

[ATTACH]35545[/ATTACH]

Spencer got to use the circular saw for the first time

[ATTACH]35549[/ATTACH]

He did an excellent job. look how tight to the line he is here:

[ATTACH]35547[/ATTACH]
jimhelm • Nov 28, 2011 8:52 pm
kids chilling after a day's work and some Chinese food. [ATTACH]35548[/ATTACH]
You can see the door sill i did in the back there. I used a 2x12 that we had left over, and beveled it on a 45 around 3 edges. I screwed up from underneath to secure it there. Fits perfectly under the door sill. I love it when a plan comes together.
classicman • Nov 28, 2011 9:04 pm
Beautiful work.
jimhelm • Nov 28, 2011 9:22 pm
thanks! ALMOST DONE! yay!

Looks like it WILL be December when I finish it, as the 2nd is my next day off.... What the hell am I going to do with my days off now!?

I took a video and uploaded it to youtube so you can get a better feel, but it is sideways. It takes a while to rotate I guess... so I'll check back and post that once it's done.
classicman • Nov 28, 2011 9:33 pm
jimhelm;776296 wrote:
What the hell am I going to do with my days off now!?


Install my new patio door?
jimhelm • Nov 28, 2011 10:08 pm
yeah, I'm against that.



lol.. kidding.. I'd be happy to help. should be able to get it done by ...say.... Easter? If we start straight away..
jimhelm • Nov 28, 2011 11:27 pm
[YOUTUBE]H9txUJM4GY0[/YOUTUBE]
jimhelm • Nov 28, 2011 11:41 pm
Lol... I said 16 x18 ft square.
classicman • Nov 28, 2011 11:45 pm
Ha! you beat me to it. Was just watching the vid.
Spexxvet • Nov 29, 2011 8:49 am
Is that a left handed saw (and son), or is the photo phlipped?
Trilby • Nov 29, 2011 8:58 am
that is really gorgeous.

marry me.
infinite monkey • Nov 29, 2011 9:46 am
Great jim! And the kids are cool too.
jimhelm • Nov 29, 2011 10:04 am
Spexxvet;776370 wrote:
Is that a left handed saw (and son), or is the photo phlipped?


left handed son... regular saw.. I think saws are Bi.
jimhelm • Nov 29, 2011 10:06 am
Brianna;776379 wrote:
that is really gorgeous.

marry me.


maybe we could just fuck around a little?

I'm enjoying being single...I value my freedom....I enjoy being single, I value my freedom, repeat.

infinite monkey;776403 wrote:
Great jim! And the kids are cool too.


I agree. My best buddies.
Trilby • Nov 29, 2011 10:54 am
jimhelm;776405 wrote:
maybe we could just fuck around a little?

I'm enjoying being single...I value my freedom....I enjoy being single, I value my freedom, repeat.


yeah. Ducks says to never ever ever ever ever get re-married.

She's right about that.

:)
infinite monkey • Nov 29, 2011 10:57 am
It's worked for me!
Spexxvet • Nov 29, 2011 11:14 am
jimhelm;776404 wrote:
left handed son... regular saw.. I think saws are Bi.


I never noticed that!
Pete Zicato • Nov 30, 2011 10:42 am
Nice work, Jim. It looks perfect.
Griff • Nov 30, 2011 4:43 pm
Right purty Jim.
footfootfoot • Nov 30, 2011 4:51 pm
Spexxvet;776370 wrote:
Is that a left handed saw (and son), or is the photo phlipped?


That's a Right handed saw. They do make lefty saws, that isn't one.
Lamplighter • Nov 30, 2011 5:30 pm
Saws are also like belly buttons...Some blades cut on the "innie" and some on the "outie".
Spexxvet • Nov 30, 2011 5:50 pm
I hold mine in my right hand, and the motor is on the far side.

BTW Jim, your daughter looks just like you. Good work there, too.
ZenGum • Nov 30, 2011 6:02 pm
Just in time for Christmas carols:

Deck the house with Spencer and Ripley
fala lala la, la la la lah!
jimhelm • Nov 30, 2011 10:00 pm
Spexxvet;776749 wrote:
I hold mine in my right hand, and the motor is on the far side.

BTW Jim, your daughter looks just like you. Good work there, too.


thanks, bro.... An absolute sweet person, too. Always has been.
DucksNuts • Nov 30, 2011 11:43 pm
Lamplighter;776742 wrote:
Saws are also like belly buttons...Some blades cut on the "innie" and some on the "outie".


Must be something wrong with my bellybutton....it doesnt cut either way :neutral:
plthijinx • Nov 30, 2011 11:53 pm
DucksNuts;776808 wrote:
Must be something wrong with my bellybutton....it doesnt cut either way :neutral:


ummm....you just won the lottery. fly over here and i'll fix that! :p:


Jim excellent work there man!! awesome deck ya built there!
glatt • Dec 1, 2011 8:26 am
Finally got a chance to watch the video. It's a most excellent deck! Well done.
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