What Am I?

What's right? What's left? What's liberal? What's conservative? I'm happy to say I don't know. And that's no accident. I have purposely avoided left/right/liberal/conservative labels all my thinking life.

I am going to make a few statements on my thoughts and beliefs. Please comment on whether the statement leans left or right. Liberal or conservative. And label the group of statements, as a whole, left/right/liberal/conservative.

I will not go off on anybody, argue, tell you you're stupid or any of that shit. I promise.

Now, you guys, y'all can argue all ya want.:D

1. I think G.W. Bush was not the greatest president he might have been, but, I thank God that Al Gore was not our president on Sept. 11. I think we would have had thousands more dead Americans by now if he had been.

2. I think all high school grads/eighteen-year-olds should do a mandatory two year turn in the military.

3. I think marijuana should as legal as cigarettes/booze.

4. While a friendly regime is always preferable, I don't think who is in charge of {insert Middle-East country here} is really any of our business.

5. I think if you're a country, and you got the minds to produce nuclear weapons, or nuclear energy, the rest of the world should either bomb you out of existence, or STFU.

6. I don't think it matters who the President is, or what color, for that matter. The office of the POTUS is nothing more than a mouthpiece for the group of CEOs and board chairmen that actually run this country. (I know this contradicts statement #1, sue me.)

7. I'm not sure there is a God. I'm not sure there's not a God. But, I do believe more people have been killed over religion than by all the diseases and accidents in history.

8. I don't think having a felony conviction should prevent you from working anywhere but a bank, or a school.

9. I know there are situations, but, I am not a fan of bankruptcy.

10. I think the plaintiffs in stupid 'hot-coffee-in-my-lap'-type lawsuits should have to give half of their award to charity.

11. I think guns are cool.

12. I think the tax rate ought to be 30% flat rate across the board for every man woman and company, no matter how big.

13. I think we should only import items/goods into this country if no one here makes it.

14. I think if you're a company that exports goods to the US, you should have to have a factory(s) here.

15. I think this is as good a place as any to STFU.

So, am I right? Left? Liberal? Conservative? Need more info, just ask.

:corn:

Gravdigr;739856 wrote:

So, am I right? Left? Liberal? Conservative?

Yes

Someone who doesn't need an ideology. That's the way to go.

fucked.

You're just a good ole boy,
Never meanin' no harm ...

I'll play.

Gravdigr;739856 wrote:

1. I think G.W. Bush was not the greatest president he might have been, but, I thank God that Al Gore was not our president on Sept. 11. I think we would have had thousands more dead Americans by now if he had been.

Conservative. You have an opinion that cannot be proved either way, but since you believe a repubican would have done better, I would call that a conservative opinion.

Gravdigr;739856 wrote:

2. I think all high school grads/eighteen-year-olds should do a mandatory two year turn in the military.

Liberal.

Gravdigr;739856 wrote:

3. I think marijuana should as legal as cigarettes/booze.

Liberal.

Gravdigr;739856 wrote:

4. While a friendly regime is always preferable, I don't think who is in charge of {insert Middle-East country here} is really any of our business.

Liberal.

Gravdigr;739856 wrote:

5. I think if you're a country, and you got the minds to produce nuclear weapons, or nuclear energy, the rest of the world should either bomb you out of existence, or STFU.

Conservative.

Gravdigr;739856 wrote:

6. I don't think it matters who the President is, or what color, for that matter. The office of the POTUS is nothing more than a mouthpiece for the group of CEOs and board chairmen that actually run this country. (I know this contradicts statement #1, sue me.)

Conservative.

Gravdigr;739856 wrote:

7. I'm not sure there is a God. I'm not sure there's not a God. But, I do believe more people have been killed over religion than by all the diseases and accidents in history.

Liberal.

Gravdigr;739856 wrote:

8. I don't think having a felony conviction should prevent you from working anywhere but a bank, or a school.

Liberal.

Gravdigr;739856 wrote:

9. I know there are situations, but, I am not a fan of bankruptcy.

Conservative.

Gravdigr;739856 wrote:

10. I think the plaintiffs in stupid 'hot-coffee-in-my-lap'-type lawsuits should have to give half of their award to charity.

Thinking that some lawsuits are stupid or frivolous = conservative. Giving to charity = Liberal.

Gravdigr;739856 wrote:

11. I think guns are cool.

[strike]Gay[/strike] :stickpoke::p: conservative

Gravdigr;739856 wrote:

12. I think the tax rate ought to be 30% flat rate across the board for every man woman and company, no matter how big.

30%=Liberal. Flat tax=conservative.

Gravdigr;739856 wrote:

13. I think we should only import items/goods into this country if no one here makes it.

Liberal.

Gravdigr;739856 wrote:

14. I think if you're a company that exports goods to the US, you should have to have a factory(s) here.

Liberal.

Compulsory military service is a 'liberal' view??

DanaC;739928 wrote:

Compulsory military service is a 'liberal' view??

Oops! In my mind, I thought "service", like Peace Corp. I'm not sure that compulsory military service is a conservative view, either. That's a tricky one.

DanaC;739928 wrote:

Compulsory military service is a 'liberal' view??

Yes, because it is the slightly sluttier sister of free healthcare for all citizens.

My dad used to say "A liberal is only a conservative who hasn't been mugged yet."

For what it's worth.

footfootfoot;739939 wrote:

My dad used to say "A liberal is only a conservative who hasn't been mugged yet."

For what it's worth.

My dad used to say "a conservative is only a liberal who hasn't been persecuted for not being christian, falsely detained and tortured, and kept in the underclass yet." :p:

Spexxvet;739942 wrote:

My dad used to say "a conservative is only a liberal who hasn't been persecuted for not being christian, falsely detained and tortured, and kept in the underclass yet." :p:

"And forced to bear a child that she didn't want, and prohibited from marrying anyone (s)he wants" :p::p:

spexx wrote:

Thinking that some lawsuits are stupid or frivolous = conservative. Giving to charity = Liberal.

:bs::redcard:

Most of what I've experienced has been contrary to that. I did a quick Google and found a few links which all seemed to say the same thing -

-- Although liberal families' incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year vs. $1,227).

-- Conservatives also donate more time and give more blood.

Although the stats are from a few years ago, I would say they are probably still relatively accurate. Its about an even split with conservatives getting a slight edge.
I've been volunteering for a long time now and most of the people are not what I expected. I was surprised to find such a mix of young/old, wealthy/average, male/female... there were far more religious than not, but that is because they come as groups from their churches and (I think) skews the numbers.

Gravdigr - I'd say your pretty much in the middle of things.
Did you try taking the Political Compass quiz

The religious aspect probably skews the liberal-conservative ratio as well.

classicman;739946 wrote:

:bs::redcard:

Most of what I've experienced has been contrary to that. I did a quick Google and found a few links which all seemed to say the same thing -

Although the stats are from a few years ago, I would say they are probably still relatively accurate. Its about an even split with conservatives getting a slight edge.
I've been volunteering for a long time now and most of the people are not what I expected. I was surprised to find such a mix of young/old, wealthy/average, male/female... there were far more religious than not, but that is because they come as groups from their churches and (I think) skews the numbers.

Please. We're both painting with a broad brush, but my experiance is that conservatives don't want to be told what to do with their money. While they might be very generous, they would resist being forced to give some of their stupid-lawsuit-begotten gains to charity.

Good point Dana. I was thinking the same thing - after I posted, of course.

Spexx, no one should be "told what to do with their money"
After all, it is their money.

The facts, and your disdain for anything conservative, remain.

piercehawkeye45;739865 wrote:

Someone who doesn't need an ideology. That's the way to go.

I find this an odd view of ideology. To me, 'ideology' is just the name given to a coherent worldview. I don't look at an issue and ask myself what the correct view might be according to my chosen ideology. Rather, I hold a set of general views, and find myself taking positions on matters as they arise, which indicate to me that my views seem to fit with an existing ideology. I therefore identify myself as being 'leftwing' or 'socialist'.

I don't look at an issue and think, right, what is the Socialist response to this? I respond to things and it so happens that many of those responses can be deemed socialist. There are times when my view does not correspond to what is understood as socialist ideology. But I categorise myself as socialist because my views broadly correspond to a socialist worldview.

'Ideology' isn't a crutch.

The whole splitting lawsuit money with charities thing won't work anyway. Juries would factor that in to their calculations and just double the amount of money they award.

Spexxvet;739942 wrote:

My dad used to say "a conservative is only a liberal who hasn't been persecuted for not being christian, falsely detained and tortured, and kept in the underclass yet." :p:

Spexxvet;739944 wrote:

"And forced to bear a child that she didn't want, and prohibited from marrying anyone (s)he wants" :p::p:

[SIZE="6"]No Spexx, I am your father...[/SIZE]

What am I?

1. Guns are cool. Everyone should go shooting one at least once to see what it is.

2. Guns alone do not keep a people free, but they might help sometimes.

3. Education is the most important thing a culture can promote.

4. All major religions' descriptions of creation are wrong, and the Gods they describe are fictional superstitions grown out of an ignorant, young human race trying desperately to make sense of its puzzle without starting from the necessary clues. To sum up: if there is a God, He is not who they say He is.

5. Some cultures are more productive than others, and they should be admired and copied, as they extend and improve the lives of all.

6. If a law is bad, it is not immoral to break it. If a law is terrible, it may be one's duty to break it.

7. The free market has been one of the most remarkable ideas ever, leading to a maximization of human activity that has massively improved the world, and led more people out of poverty than any other system ever devised.

8. Where wealth is created, it is not a "zero-sum game" where in order for some have a larger slice of pie, it is necessary for others to have smaller slices. Wealth creation does that a little, but it also makes a bigger pie.

9. Global climate change is happening, but our notion of it as catastrophic is too alarmist, driven by mankind's built-in fear of death and disaster. Many things will actually benefit from it.

10. I am optimistic for the future, because I see humans solving most major problems and providing enough to sustain humanity with food, clothing and shelter; maybe not within my lifetime, but not too far thereafter.

11. If a city wants to encourage civic improvement, citizen involvement, a flourishing arts community, clean streets and safe neighborhoods, it must first do whatever it can to attract gay people to live there.

12. In the next 20 years, the US must reduce its military spending by half. In order to allow this to happen, in a world still full of dangerous people and ruinous ideas, EU must increase by half.

footfootfoot;739974 wrote:

[SIZE="6"]No Spexx, I am your father...[/SIZE]

Please don't cut off my hand!:thepain:

What am I?

I'm a thread killer.

DanaC;739960 wrote:

I find this an odd view of ideology. To me, 'ideology' is just the name given to a coherent worldview. I don't look at an issue and ask myself what the correct view might be according to my chosen ideology. Rather, I hold a set of general views, and find myself taking positions on matters as they arise, which indicate to me that my views seem to fit with an existing ideology. I therefore identify myself as being 'leftwing' or 'socialist'.

I don't look at an issue and think, right, what is the Socialist response to this? I respond to things and it so happens that many of those responses can be deemed socialist. There are times when my view does not correspond to what is understood as socialist ideology. But I categorise myself as socialist because my views broadly correspond to a socialist worldview.

'Ideology' isn't a crutch.

I have no problem with ideology in general. Most of us have one whether it is completely independent of anyone else's or the stereotypical conservative or liberal in the US. What I disagree with is how labels affect us. You mentioned this and it does not apply to everyone, but once people label themselves as "whatever", they have a tendency to lean towards their label on new issues.

I understand that you don't give yourself the definite label of socialist, your views just tend to fall under that category, and you will still look at the world unbiasedly, as many people probably do, but it's a slippery slope that many people do fall down.

Actually I would absolutely label myself as 'socialist'. It's just that doesn't mean i walk about with a set of tenets and rules of engagement in mind. I absolutely define myself as a socialist. And a feminist. And an atheist. And a gamer. And a historian. And working class. And a northerner.

Undertoad;740052 wrote:

I'm a thread killer.

No, you just have an eclectic way of thinking.

And Gravdigr is just a typical Kentuckian.

Undertoad;740052 wrote:

I'm a thread killer.

Hey, I stepped up for Grav. Someone else can do you. Sheldon?

What am I?

I'm a...[YOUTUBE]Q8SSBjyzEyA[/YOUTUBE]

Guess what I am now....

[YOUTUBE]u48PvBTl3u8[/YOUTUBE]

Grav, lower the rate on #12 to 15% and you're in the running for being my soul-mate.

If you're a dude.

Undertoad;739978 wrote:

What am I?

1. Guns are cool. Everyone should go shooting one at least once to see what it is.

2. Guns alone do not keep a people free, but they might help sometimes.

3. Education is the most important thing a culture can promote.

4. All major religions' descriptions of creation are wrong, and the Gods they describe are fictional superstitions grown out of an ignorant, young human race trying desperately to make sense of its puzzle without starting from the necessary clues. To sum up: if there is a God, He is not who they say He is.

5. Some cultures are more productive than others, and they should be admired and copied, as they extend and improve the lives of all.

6. If a law is bad, it is not immoral to break it. If a law is terrible, it may be one's duty to break it.

7. The free market has been one of the most remarkable ideas ever, leading to a maximization of human activity that has massively improved the world, and led more people out of poverty than any other system ever devised.

8. Where wealth is created, it is not a "zero-sum game" where in order for some have a larger slice of pie, it is necessary for others to have smaller slices. Wealth creation does that a little, but it also makes a bigger pie.

9. Global climate change is happening, but our notion of it as catastrophic is too alarmist, driven by mankind's built-in fear of death and disaster. Many things will actually benefit from it.

10. I am optimistic for the future, because I see humans solving most major problems and providing enough to sustain humanity with food, clothing and shelter; maybe not within my lifetime, but not too far thereafter.

11. If a city wants to encourage civic improvement, citizen involvement, a flourishing arts community, clean streets and safe neighborhoods, it must first do whatever it can to attract gay people to live there.

12. In the next 20 years, the US must reduce its military spending by half. In order to allow this to happen, in a world still full of dangerous people and ruinous ideas, EU must increase by half.

Undertoad;740052 wrote:

I'm a thread killer.

You are a middle man and awash in thread drift.

SamIam;740077 wrote:

And Gravdigr is just a typical Kentuckian.

Hey!!!

Are you objecting to typical, or Kentuckian?

3. Education is the most important thing a culture can promote.

The fly in that ointment is promotion of education for education's sake. That's why after 16 years of school so many college graduates are living in Mom's basement with no job and crushing debt. What should be promoted is not education, but learning... learning productive, useful, skills rather than general, useless knowledge.

Bachelor of Arts, lovely... but can you fix your car, bake bread, create anything? Did you even learn critical thinking, or just how to pass courses? Oh yes, you can teach the next generation the same useless shit you were taught, just so they can say they went to college, got an "education".

Hopefully there will always be people like Dana, who picked a section of interest to her, and has worked very hard to increase her knowledge. In doing her research, she's dug into the dusty archives to discover and catalog history so it won't be lost, and more easily available for future scholars in that field. Will it be earth shaking... no. But important to collective human knowledge.

We need scholars, musicians, plumbers, and mechanics, as much as we need physicists and Doctors, but these are all learned skills, not just education.

Interesting timing xoB, I just heard on the radio that more parents are suggesting their children take up a trade rather than go to college. There was a whole story about it on NPR, I think.

My hero.


Mom, Dad, I want to be a school teacher.

But sweetie, hookers make so much more money.

Wow, great thread so far. I really liked the talk by Mike. My oldest boy is going to go to school in the fall, his choice is to go to a trade school. A two year school in auto mechanics.

Thank you all for paying your taxes as I am transferring my Army college benefits to him to accomplish this.

I don't think that this world and what we do is about making money. It's about making a living.

regular.joe;740534 wrote:

Wow, great thread so far. I really liked the talk by Mike. My oldest boy is going to go to school in the fall, his choice is to go to a trade school. A two year school in auto mechanics.

Thank you all for paying your taxes as I am transferring my Army college benefits to him to accomplish this.

I don't think that this world and what we do is about making money. It's about making a living.

Hi Joe!

I am always in awe of the VA benefits office here at the college. It's been a rough year for them, but so many wonderful people benefit...and deserve it for serving the country. The woman who is in charge is very proud that she is able to do what she does for our veterans. They are typically the nicest and most respectful students too.

My buddy got her bachelor's due to her reservist enlistment (and she's still in reserves) and her boyfriend is now going to school too (he's a Marine, veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan.)


Thanks for your service.

My daughter has little interest in making things or in the trades. She likes to read and wants to write. Although she's gifted in both math and science.

My son is absolutely nuts about making stuff. I've got a basement workshop and I've gone over proper use of hand tools with him and he's got free run of the place. No power tools yet unless I'm with him, and no stationary power tools yet at all.

He can decide what he wants to do when he's older, but I'm going to make sure he considers the trades.

Our middle school has an amazing band program. One of the best in the state. But if you choose to take advantage of the outstanding band program, you can't take the electives like industrial arts and home economics. They don't call them that, but those electives really look pretty good too. There's a robotics one, and wood shop, and metal shop, and cooking. You rotate between all of them, or you can do band.

I suppose if my son winds up taking band, he can still always putter in my shop at home.

For his birthday last month, one of the gifts we gave him was a bunch of random lumber.

For his birthday last month, one of the gifts we gave him was a bunch of random lumber.

So you're priming him to be on a board. :lol:

Mike Rowe's TED talk is awesome for those who haven't seen it. It's the one that starts with talking about lamb castration.

I should have made promoting trades education #4. I thought about it.

glatt;740539 wrote:

Our middle school has an amazing band program. One of the best in the state. But if you choose to take advantage of the outstanding band program, you can't take the electives like industrial arts and home economics. They don't call them that, but those electives really look pretty good too. There's a robotics one, and wood shop, and metal shop, and cooking. You rotate between all of them, or you can do band.

Our high school has an awesome band. The program starts with third graders. Including "band front" dancers, etc. it includes about a third of the student body, but it didn't interfere with my kids taking foods, metal shop, robotics, whatever.

[YOUTUBE]JdOf3tA-djw[/YOUTUBE]

I was a band geek.

In my high school being in Marching Band was separate from being in Concert Band, Wind Ensemble, and Jazz Band, although certainly there was a lot of crossover. Marching Band was considered an activity, all practices were after school, except of course, for band camp, which ran the last two weeks prior to school starting.

I was a band major, which just meant that i took band (and chorus) instead of home ec and shop and art