Osama bin Laden is DEAD
Took almost 10 years, but the US apparently has the body of the mastermind of 9/11.
Obama to speak about it in moments...
I did thanks. but am I wrong in thinking they are still operating on rumors?
(currently on abc)
I do hope it's true, though.
I Just fixed drinks and we had a Bacon Toast in honor of this
I think TMZ was the first to report it. They were also the first to report about Michael Jackson's death. How do they do it? :rolleyes:
According to Fox and MSNBC, he was killed by an American bomb, and his DNA has been tested and confirmed as of tonight.
I hope it didn't kill him too quickly.
how fast can they dna test? ....although beest is listening to the news more closely and says it appear the attack was several days ago.... sounds like this is a go!
I guess it is good, but it seems almost pointless. He was no longer relevant tactically or strategically. I guess symbolically this matters, in a "We WILL get you, sooner or later" sense.
I'm a little concerned that this was done by raiding a place in Pakistan. That is an act of war, and I'll bet we didn't clear it with the Pakistanis first, on account of their ISI being in bed with the taliban. I wouldn't want to destabilise Pakistan any further. And we can now expect a wave of 'reprisal' bombings and such around the world.
Still, a win is a win.
In other words, Zen, we're not going to be able to tell if they're extra angry with us or not. The Lefty hand wringers never could correctly figure out what they should be wringing their hands over.
The deaths of mad dogs is not a thing to mourn. While we're not quite line-dancing in the streets over here, there is gathering at Ground Zero as I type. They've got to be pretty sandy-eyed by now, though. Traffic on Twitter is reported to be extraordinarily heavy.
A Pakistani helicopter started out on the mission, but crashed due to some kind of mechanical failure. So someone, somewhere in Pakistan knew about this.
ETA - this may not be the case after all, there are conflicting reports, including that the helicopter was shot down.
From the BBC "Another senior US official said that no intelligence had been shared with any country, including Pakistan, ahead of the raid."
So ignore me!
More importantly, did anyone have them on their death list this year?
Sadly, I think I gave up on him a while back, so no points for me :(
Man, the Bushes must be BUMMED.
Man, the Bushes must be BUMMED.
They aren't. Republicans always do appreciate the Republic's victories. Some non-Republicans resolutely avoid grasping this, to the wonderment of all who see it.
Thinking of this sort illustrates the mentality of the Left -- too childish for Urbane Guerrilla to respect in the slightest, and I damn it categorically and often. Stupid, you see, should hurt. It should hurt as much as is needed for the lesson to be taught. For some minds, that means a level of agony that would double that of terminal prostate cancer, so slow are they to learn what they should.
Do not respect such minds -- they are slow and not nimble. In severe cases, meds must be considered. There are some folks who are only
clinically sane. (Which is roughly what Michael Graham said of Janeane Garofolo.)
OT but I think worth quoting, Michael Graham on la Garofalo:
Having run into [Jeanene Garofalo] a few times since then, I've come to two conclusions.
First, there is a pleasant and intelligent person buried somewhere inside that rude, angry, tattoo-covered exterior. Second, the rational Janeane can't escape this hideous trap because her far-left politics have literally driven her mad. Indeed, it could be argued that being a nut is a requirement for being a member in good standing of the Obama Left.
Don't take my word for it. Ask a liberal.
Pew Research did. A 2009 study by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life asked Americans about their beliefs in supernatural phenomena like psychic powers, astrology, and reincarnation. . . and that some objects contain "spiritual energy."
The results showed liberal Democrats about twice as likely to believe in this stuff than the conservatives they despise so loudly or the independents.
I do have occasional trouble spelling Janeane Garofalo right. Sigh.
The hand wringing lefties did it, after the chest thumpers failed for 8 years.:p:
I do have occasional trouble spelling Janeane Garofalo right. Sigh.
She was in
The Truth About Cats and Dogs, right?
The hand wringing lefties did it, after the chest thumpers failed for 8 years.:p:
You can achieve a surpising amount when have a strong left hand grip.
You can achieve a surpising amount when have a strong left hand grip.
And I do. ;)
They aren't. Republicans always do appreciate the Republic's victories. Some non-Republicans resolutely avoid grasping this, to the wonderment of all who see it.
Fascinating. What blinders are you wearing that you aren't seeing the gnashing of teeth and utter flailing of the rightwingers that Obama got this done while at the same time trying to give complete credit for it to Bush? The right is downright apoplectic right now, desperately trying to figure out how to take this victory away from President Obama.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/05/bin-laden-and-the-big-picture.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/may/2/osama-dead-obama-should-escalate/
http://rightwingnews.com/uncategorized/10-thoughts-about-osama-bin-ladens-death/
http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/1268280-osama-bin-laden-dead.html
Thinking of this sort illustrates the mentality of the Left -- too childish for Urbane Guerrilla to respect in the slightest, and I damn it categorically and often. Stupid, you see, should hurt. It should hurt as much as is needed for the lesson to be taught. For some minds, that means a level of agony that would double that of terminal prostate cancer, so slow are they to learn what they should.
Do not respect such minds -- they are slow and not nimble. In severe cases, meds must be considered. There are some folks who are only clinically sane. (Which is roughly what Michael Graham said of Janeane Garofolo.)
Ahhh, more personal attacks against Democrats and Liberals. So mature. What kind of mentality does that reflect, you think?
Clearly Obama located Bin laden, because he's secretly one of them. :lol2:
Yah, that's a good one, Bruce.
Fascinating. What blinders are you wearing that you aren't seeing the gnashing of teeth and utter flailing of the rightwingers that Obama got this done while at the same time trying to give complete credit for it to Bush? The right is downright apoplectic right now, desperately trying to figure out how to take this victory away from President Obama.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/05/bin-laden-and-the-big-picture.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/may/2/osama-dead-obama-should-escalate/
http://rightwingnews.com/uncategorized/10-thoughts-about-osama-bin-ladens-death/
http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/1268280-osama-bin-laden-dead.html
Ahhh, more personal attacks against Democrats and Liberals. So mature. What kind of mentality does that reflect, you think?
Jill, you do not have a rational reason to vote for a Democrat, ever again, for any office. You do have falsehoods, rationalizations, and excuses, but I, as one of the people of freedom, a small-government sort of fellow, do not.
The Democrats successfully win elections relying on the votes of the socialistic, the parasitic, and the dull-normal fellow travelers.
Lets me out of that constituency, doesn't it? I registered Libertarian Party, so I don't exactly have a dog in the Dem/Rep fight. You do know which dog I root for.
It's not that I couldn't see some blogger bloviations -- it's that I care mighty little for them, hewing to the sort of opinionmongering that is giving the due credit to both -- Obama got schooled in the business of fighting a sub-rosa war and after two years' experience has had an unequivocal victory in this sort of unconventional, non-state conflict in which symbolic sorts of victories have more weight than they do in contentions between states.
An attack upon the policy record hardly means an attack upon persons. But again, and again and ten billion times again: stupid should and must hurt until it educates the educable to quit pissing on that electric fence. When you are committed to an ideology that obliges you to choose the lesser, the more collectivist choice, does that say you're intelligent?
Turning to a posted link or two: it is a complete mischaracterization of the
Washington Times editorial to call it "flailing of the rightwingers" when it is a straightforward account of who did what, and how long. When I lived in Prince George's County, Maryland, I was much in the habit of buying both each day's
Washington Post and
Washington Times, leaning their editorial positions up against each other to see what insight dropping a mental plumb between their respective slants might give. Sometimes it was illuminating. Eventually I got the idea the Times staffers were the less dickheaded, and rather the less statist. Encouraging, really.
Does
George W. Bush started the hunt for Bin Laden and almost everything Obama has done to get Osama has been a continuation or an enhancement of the programs Bush put in place. That’s not an effort to steal credit from Obama, because he does deserve credit, but it’s just giving Bush some rightful credit for the part he played in helping to kill Bin Laden.
sound to you like flailing around to be unfair to Obama? This is all a matter of public record, and it's all over the place. If you think this is utter flailing, shame on you. You could always
reread the piece. Indeed you should, for you have grasped little of its essence. I could keep on citing paragraph after paragraph from that linked article of its evenhandedness, but a tw-ish wall-of-text isn't my style. I'm not an obsessive.
Pp. 130-131 of
this thread in CityData's forum are a typical-enough Internent firefight, yeah. An example of the sort of thing I don't waste a lot of caring upon. And your point might have been?
Honestly, Jill dear. Don't post stuff that invites condescension; use the old noodle. We are smarter than you'd like, or would like to acknowledge, tougher than you could handle, and we're fertile too. See Sarah Palin. And we make more sensible arguments, as anyone reading Jonah Goldberg's
Proud To Be Right really has to acknowledge.
We read things presently beyond your ken, but you can catch up. If you have the courage of your convictions, I invite you to test them.
Jill, you do not have a rational reason to vote for a Democrat, ever again, for any office. You do have falsehoods, rationalizations, and excuses, but I, as one of the people of freedom, a small-government sort of fellow, do not.
You are free to rationalize your own politics. You are not free to do so with mine.
The Democrats successfully win elections relying on the votes of the socialistic, the parasitic, and the dull-normal fellow travelers.
Interesting perspective. I find that the Republicans successfully win elections relying on the votes of the greedy, selfish, low-IQ, hate-filled, angry, frightened and those easily manipulated with complete lies. Guess which group I'd rather belong to.
Lets me out of that constituency, doesn't it? I registered Libertarian Party, so I don't exactly have a dog in the Dem/Rep fight. You do know which dog I root for.
The rabid one that needs to be put down?
It's not that I couldn't see some blogger bloviations -- it's that I care mighty little for them, hewing to the sort of opinionmongering that is giving the due credit to both -- Obama got schooled in the business of fighting a sub-rosa war and after two years' experience has had an unequivocal victory in this sort of unconventional, non-state conflict in which symbolic sorts of victories have more weight than they do in contentions between states.
An attack upon the policy record hardly means an attack upon persons. But again, and again and ten billion times again: stupid should and must hurt until it educates the educable to quit pissing on that electric fence. When you are committed to an ideology that obliges you to choose the lesser, the more collectivist choice, does that say you're intelligent?
What policy records? That's not what you attacked. You attacked the persons who adhere to those policies as being mentally ill.
The facts are, when viewed through the lens of reality, we as a nation have historically done better over the past half century when Democrats have been in control. Republican policies have repeatedly been proven, when implemented, not to work. At all. Well, that's not completely true. They work -- in the exact opposite way that's claimed.
I won't even humor you with what this country would devolve into under Libertarian rule.
Honestly, Jill dear. We are smarter than you'd like, or would like to acknowledge, tougher than you could handle, and we're fertile too. Just check out Sarah Palin -- who also might be hotter than you unless you could take the crown from Miss Turkey.
Honestly, Guerrilla dear, don't flatter yourself. I've taken on smarter than you and won. Handily.
As to whether or not Sarah Palin is hotter than me, or I could unseat Miss Turkey, I
guess that depends on who's judging.
DAYUM, Jill is hawt!
You win.
Also, I bet your whoha isn't all stretched out from popping out too many babies!
Oh SNAP!
Jill, there are just no words for how much you won that! :)
DAYUM, Jill is hawt!
You win.
Also, I bet your whoha isn't all stretched out from popping out too many babies!
Awww, thank you very much. That's really sweet of you to say. Hooha's not stretched out from having
any babies.
Oh SNAP!
Jill, there are just no words for how much you won that! :)
I feel like taking a bow, but I don't want to appear arrogant.
[SIZE="1"]I did kinda show him, though, didn't I? Hehe[/SIZE]
A hundred times over. I'm still chuckling.
You rock! :)
the GM here at work was watching cnn and they broke a leak story saying that the US actually didn't kill bin laden but that he was killed by his own people. something about that he ordered them to do it in case it looked like he was either going to be captured or killed by the americans, he didn't want to die by an american hand but rather one of his own people. either way i don't care. he's dead.
Dude, he's not dead. He's pining for the fjords.
And Jill rocks.
And Jill rocks.
Definitely understated :)
You have won nothing, Jill, and you're not going to. Sure, you're stubborn. Sure, you pursue subadult ideas. Those shall not win the day for you, handily nor otherwise. Fanatics collide with me and they break.
Let's start in on the nature of the Left, shall we?
The large number of rich Leftists suggests that, for them, envy is secondary. They are directly driven by hatred and scorn for many of the other people that they see about them. Hatred of others can be rooted in many things, not only in envy. But the haters come together as the Left.
Leftists hate the world around them and want to change it: the people in it most particularly. Conservatives just want to be left alone to make their own decisions and follow their own values.
The failure of the Soviet experiment has definitely made the American Left more vicious and hate-filled than they were. The plain failure of what passed for ideas among them has enraged rather than humbled them.
Particularly this last is whence the opposition to the Obama Administration and its agenda springs. Even the temperately-read words of the usual sort of Obama speech, exemplified in the "clinging bitterly to their guns and their religion" speech, show a profound disdain for people who just plain don't merit disdain. It mischaracterizes them as bitter, then abuses the practitioners of the vaccination of the body politic against genocide -- or do the JPFO have it all wrong?
I doubt that last in particular.
Being rather right of center myself allows and causes me to be whole -- unbroken. I am not here to lead you astray, Jill. I am here to do the very opposite. Indeed, such is my character that I could no other, all right? You don't have to like it right off, you don't have to believe me right off. But you will come to a somewhat uncomfortable awareness that I do rather well, because of what I hew to; because I have a clear understanding of who and what the monsters are. This is a faculty the Left -- well, it is kindest to say that they lack it.
This will, I think, be a great deal of fun.
OT but I think worth quoting, Michael Graham on la Garofalo:
Pew Research did. A 2009 study by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life asked Americans about their beliefs in supernatural phenomena like psychic powers, astrology, and reincarnation. . . and that some objects contain "spiritual energy."
The results showed liberal Democrats about twice as likely to believe in this stuff than the conservatives they despise so loudly or the independents.
Did they also ask questions about belief in eating the magic biscuits that are actually the body of the son of the bearded sky-daddy who made the world in six days and carries you off to the cloudland when you die?
Or was the study as one-sided as you present it to be?
The facts are, when viewed through the lens of reality...
ay, there's the rub...
Y'know what, Zen? I eat wafers. Free wine on Sundays, too. (If the phrase sounds familiar but you can't put your finger on it, Google is your friend and Bob's your ungulate.)
And I was raised Unitarian if I was raised anything. I like to think the experience of youth plus that of maturer years gives me a broad and sensible perspective.
Atheism is much too cramped for me. Too much a belief in unbelief so its final reward seems so... picayune. Perhaps the most sturdily rational, or rationalist, atheist I ever heard of was Robert A. Heinlein -- a fellow I'd happily consign to Heaven.
Or is it righter to reckon of those who are atheistic "Verily, they have received their reward."
The list of despots who behaved all their lives as if there were no afterlife that might possibly be influenced by their deeds in this life is long and written in dried blood: Jenghis Khan, Mao Tse Tung, Josef Stalin and his enabler Vladimr Il'ych you-know-who, Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler. Those are just the high points. Their nearest real approach to God seems to have been when they were swearing at somebody. There's always that whiff of dead folks around the anti-believers who operate on a large scale, who very often do not discourage their followers to worship them, mortal men, instead of something more abstract and with the right touch of the supernal.
What the small-scale antibelievers seem to lack looks like the opportunity to slaughter like the big boys.
Now I follow a trinitarian way, to the point of being an Episcopalian lay minister, duly licensed by the Diocese of Los Angeles. There's a lot of... brain going on in the Anglican Communion. You know that's the kind of thing I like.
The difference between religious thinking and superstitious (or magickal) thinking seems to me to be in what you do with it once you've thought it.
...
Being rather right of center myself allows and causes me to be whole -- unbroken. I am not here to lead you astray, Jill. I am here to do the very opposite. Indeed, such is my character that I could no other, all right? You don't have to like it right off, you don't have to believe me right off. But you will come to a somewhat uncomfortable awareness that I do rather well, because of what I hew to; because I have a clear understanding of who and what the monsters are. This is a faculty the Left -- well, it is kindest to say that they lack it.
This will, I think, be a great deal of fun.
Or perhaps you are just a legend in your own mind.
A strange mind indeed to quote Michael Graham, who suggests that all of Islam is a terrorist organization.
Leaves one to wonder if he was speaking about himself and those who quote him when he said:, "The problem is not extremism."
Right. The problem is fear-mongering, whether its an "islamofacist" hiding under our beds or Obama taking away your guns.
Witch hunts all across Europe and US, US Slavery, Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition
Just a few of the atrocities that Christians (who did believe in the after life) committed.
...
The difference between religious thinking and superstitious (or magickal) thinking seems to me to be in what you do with it once you've thought it.
You mean like a good Christian like likely presidential candidate Mike Huckabee who links gay sex to bestiality and abortion to slavery and who wants to amend the Constitution to reflect those views?
Y'all are so cute trying to sustain a rational dialog with UG! :corn:
Y'all are so cute trying to sustain a rational dialog with UG! :corn:
Just testing the findings of a
recent study in the UK that suggests people with right wing views have a larger area of the brain associated with fear. ;)
Just testing the findings of a recent study in the UK that suggests people with right wing views have a larger area of the brain associated with fear. ;)
SRLSY!
A hundred times over. I'm still chuckling.
You rock! :)
Dude, he's not dead. He's pining for the fjords.
And Jill rocks.
Definitely understated :)
I think it's you guys who rock! You sure made my day! :blush:
You have won nothing, Jill, and you're not going to. Sure, you're stubborn. Sure, you pursue subadult ideas. Those shall not win the day for you, handily nor otherwise. Fanatics collide with me and they break.
I pursue "subadult" ideas? That's hilarious, considering you're the one who suggested that being a Beauty Queen was somehow relevant to political superiority.
Interesting that you wish to "break" me, as opposed to convince me. Personally, I'd just like for you to learn a few things, and perhaps acknowledge a few truths, even if you don't come around fully to my way of thinking, politically. Why would you want to "break" me? That's not very respectful.
Let's start in on the nature of the Left, shall we?
How about let's not. This thread is about the death of Osama bin Laden. I'd say it's already been hijacked enough, wouldn't you?
Particularly this last is whence the opposition to the Obama Administration and its agenda springs. Even the temperately-read words of the usual sort of Obama speech, exemplified in the "clinging bitterly to their guns and their religion" speech, show a profound disdain for people who just plain don't merit disdain. It mischaracterizes them as bitter, then abuses the practitioners of the vaccination of the body politic against genocide -- or do the JPFO have it all wrong?
On the other hand, I simply cannot allow a misquote to go without correction. It is you who is doing the mischaracterizing here. Then-candidate Obama did not say that anyone was clinging bitterly to their guns and their religion, and certainly not within a speech. And it certainly wasn't in an attempt to marginalize anyone.
Barack Obama was discussing the
reason that so many people in "small town America" are bitter -- and they are, let's be honest.
[indent]
"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not."[/indent]
Do you deny this truth? Is this not an accurate depiction of many small towns throughout the Midwest, where jobs have dried up and nothing more than lip service has been paid to those who have been suffering through the demise of their livelihoods?
And that, friend Guerrilla, is why Barack Obama then said, "And it's not surprising then they get bitter."
It's not surprising, is it? It doesn't surprise me that people who've been "left behind" by technology and job outsourcing and politicians entering into treaties and working trade deals that have contributed to their towns crumbling around them, would be bitter.
I'd be bitter! Wouldn't you?
And what do people who have become bitter about how the government has in many ways orchestrated their devolution towards poverty do, when they don't have the political clout to effect change in the
big ways that would rebuild their communities?
[indent]
"They cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Obama_on_smalltown_PA_Clinging_religion_guns_xenophobia.html [/indent]
That isn't even remotely how you depicted his statement, is it?
I don't mind debating you on facts. You're certainly well within your rights to want to counter the assessment Barack Obama made, based on what he
actually said. But it's impossible to have a reasonable debate with someone when they aren't debating realities, but made-up stuff.
Being rather right of center myself allows and causes me to be whole -- unbroken. I am not here to lead you astray, Jill. I am here to do the very opposite. Indeed, such is my character that I could no other, all right? You don't have to like it right off, you don't have to believe me right off. But you will come to a somewhat uncomfortable awareness that I do rather well, because of what I hew to; because I have a clear understanding of who and what the monsters are. This is a faculty the Left -- well, it is kindest to say that they lack it.
I have no doubt that you do very well. I'm quite certain that you attribute that to how you hew politically. I contend, however, that you are completely unaware of who and what the monsters really are, or you would be fighting to save America from them instead of embracing them while watching your beloved country crumble around your ears.
This will, I think, be a great deal of fun.
For one of us, perhaps. I'm not sure it's who you think it is, though.
ay, there's the rub...
Indeed. As exposed above. If one doesn't view the political landscape through the lens of reality, the world becomes distorted and no problems can ever be resolved, nor can agreement ever be reached.
Y'all are so cute trying to sustain a rational dialog with UG! :corn:
I may tire of it at some point, but for now, I'm willing to engage him, at a minimum to show him that he has formulated opinions based on faulty information.
Just testing the findings of a recent study in the UK that suggests people with right wing views have a larger area of the brain associated with fear. ;)
Not just that, but
"people with self-reported liberal views tended to have a larger anterior cingulate cortex -- a brain area involved in processing conflicting information." :thumb2:
In the meantime, Osama bin Laden is still DEAD! And it was Barack Obama who orchestrated it.
Being rather right of center myself allows and causes me to be whole -- unbroken. I am not here to lead you astray, Jill. I am here to do the very opposite. Indeed, such is my character that I could no other, all right?
Sooooooo when you made that post wishing to commit adultery with Anne Coulter [shudder] that was a shining example of your character? Alrighty then!!
Sooooooo when you made that post wishing to commit adultery with Anne Coulter [shudder]. . .
Oh that's just
nasty. [shudder] is right.
I identify as being right of center in most areas (shocker, I know) and I still believe UG is someone's sock puppet. Colbert, The Onion, UG...
Anatomically, my heart is just left of center.
I'm conservative so I had my heart removed. It wasn't being used and all.
I hope you did a sale-lease back arrangement so you could take full advantage of the federal tax breaks and accelerated depreciation.
I'm not sure, last I heard my accountant was splitting it into zeros and the like for the derivatives market. Seems some dumbass bleeding hearts want to back up their claims of having more heart. [COLOR="White"]or was that Eng er Land supporters???[/COLOR]
Osama bin Laden is DEAD
Just a thought, is not the above the topic?
As an an outsider I would have not have been able to tell if I had not read the title of the thread. Seems more like the ramblings from the farside and makes me wonder if anyone is really interested in actual discussion here or if they are just bored.:rolleyes:
Casper
Osama bin Laden is DEAD
Just a thought, is not the above the topic?
As an an outsider I would have not have been able to tell if I had not read the title of the thread. Seems more like the ramblings from the farside and makes me wonder if anyone is really interested in actual discussion here or if they are just bored.:rolleyes:
Casper
Yeah, we did manage to get a bit off-topic, as fluid conversations often do. Now stop being snotty or I'll have to spank you, which you are free to take as a threat or a promise, whichever you choose.
Now come say hello. And be nice -- you can smack Urbane Guerrilla around later. :p:
I identify as being right of center in most areas (shocker, I know) and I still believe UG is someone's sock puppet. Colbert, The Onion, UG...
Join the club, my friend. I think I've said that on a number of occasions. Although, back in the old Cellar days we had one or two people with views so extreme I thought the same thing. I believe that Barak turned out to be a real person.
There are people out there with extremely closed minds and extremist views that to them seem close to the mainstream. Any number of Wolf's former clients are probably surprised that anyone challenges what to them are simple facts.
There are people on the left who are also extreme. I would state, however, that being 'liberal' by definition means that one is open to other views. This does place extreme left-wingers vulnerable to either having their views challenged or to losing any claim to the title.
I'm still not sure if UG is a sock puppet, but the day I believe that gets closer the more extreme and indefensible his expressed views become. One day it won't be a choice of 'sock puppet or not', but of 'wool or cotton' ;).
Getting back on topic, I was talking to a conservative acquaintance and we both agreed that 'dancing in the streets' is a disturbing response. I was shocked and appalled when the bodies of American servicemen were dragged through the streets in Somalia. I had always hoped that we would not be like that. Killing an enemy is necessary in war. Feeling resolution, relief, and even satisfaction is reasonable. Expressing joyful exuberance in the taking of a life or lives is an attitude I would like to leave to our enemies as one of the differences between us that we are fighting to uphold.
There are people on the left who are also extreme.
Do you think any of them will ever visit the cellar?:rolleyes:
I would state, however, that being 'liberal' by definition means that one is open to other views.
That may be the definition but that doesn't seem to be the SOP for many of the self described liberals found in the cellar and the streets.
Now as far as the dancing in the streets business, for me it isn't a moral issue so much as an intelligence issue. He's dead. Someone else was put in danger to accomplish the mission and they succeeded. Good on them. Dipshits dancing in Times Square is about the same as sports fans running through the streets like they had scored the championship winning point themselves. Fuck off, enjoy the moment and act like adults.
Now as far as the dancing in the streets business
There were a few who had lost family. Seemed like the vast majority were college-aged people. That assessment is from what I saw on MSNBC. They were cheering for Obama, I hope.
Dancing in the streets was a bit excessive and but then again so is:
I'm not chanting or dancing in the streets over his death. I don't get the point in that and I think those that are look a bit silly. But the idea that we should because someone loved him? Fuck that. Fuck that with a donkey dick.
He was a mass murdering piece of shit. His death was long overdue. In fact, I think after his death we should have wrapped his body in bacon and surrounded it by drooling dogs inside a display case. Then we should have let it tour the country before allowing anyone who lost someone on 9/11 to piss on it.
Someone loved him??? really? Someone probably thought Hitler was swell too but I'm damn sure there was a lot of justified celebration when he died.
Not the mass murdering piece of shit or that his death was long overdue or that someone loved him, but the rest.
Yeah. You might want to get your funny bone checked.
edit: I am aware that my little paragraph wasn't high brow clever humor, but surely you must realize I wasn't actually promoting slathering him in bacon and sending him on tour?
However, I WOULD like it if you would slather me in bacon and send ME on tour. Sans the dead part, of course.
Yeah. You might want to get your funny bone checked.
edit: I am aware that my little paragraph wasn't high brow clever humor, but surely you must realize I wasn't actually promoting slathering him in bacon and sending him on tour?
I get it now. :rolleyes:
How about hanging his body at Ground Zero and allowing those who choose to spit on him.
Just as Islamist extremists sought to use Ground Zero as a triumphal place to build their mosque, (uh oh, demagoguing the Ground Zero mosque again) the United States should use the site to display Osama bin Laden’s naked body for all Americans to see. We have a right to view our nation’s tormentor face to face, to make sure he is dead, and to spit on him if we choose.
http://bigpeace.com/jmwaller/2011/05/02/display-bin-ladens-body-at-ground-zero-then-destroy-the-al-qaeda-legacy/
I get it now. :rolleyes:
How about hanging his body at Ground Zero and allowing those who choose to spit on him.
From your link...
"we’re looking at destroying his legacy, not being
fair and balanced."
So apparently he doesn't want to be
you.
lol
From your link...
"we’re looking at destroying his legacy, not being fair and balanced."
So apparently he doesn't want to be you.
lol
So you think it would have been ok to desecrate the body?
And I agree, Frank Gafney and Bret Beitbart are not fair and balanced on any subject. :)
Another perspective from an Obama hater and Islamophobe:
A reluctant American president who was ultimately overridden by senior military and intelligence officials to finally take out terrorist Osama Bin Laden…
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/05/skulking-towards-bin-laden-obama-overridden-by-military-and-intel-officials-in-takeout-of-obl.html
Overridden by senior military and intel officials?
They staged a coup and we missed it. :eek:
more:
But my favorite is Judson Phililps, head of the Tea Party Nation:
he made his announcement right in the middle of Donald Trump’s “Celebrity Apprentice” show. Of course, that was just a coincidence.
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/tea-party-nation-obama-only-killed-bin-laden-help-his-reelection
I can picture Obama and the national security team in the WH situation room. "Hmmmm, should we screw Trump just for the hell of it?"
I hate this stupid fooking two-thread thing. I have to try to remember which is in what. Are we mad in this one, or funny?
I hate this stupid fooking two-thread thing. I have to try to remember which is in what. Are we mad in this one, or funny?
I just want to know who Trump fired, dammit. :mad:
So you think it would have been ok to desecrate the body?
WTF? Where is that coming from. I read the link, noticed YOUR username in it & made a joke reference to it.
Nothing more. Paranoid much?
I just want to know who Trump fired, dammit. :mad:
You couldn't pay me to even look at that megalomaniac freak of nature. Pictures of him, unavoidable, make me barf. :p:
I hate this stupid fooking two-thread thing. I have to try to remember which is in what. Are we mad in this one, or funny?
You're funny when you're mad.
You're funny when you're mad.
I know. ;)
You couldn't pay me to even look at that megalomaniac freak of nature. Pictures of him, unavoidable, make me barf. :p:
Never watch it either.
I prefer Iron Chef America and I root the feriner, Morimoto, when he battles.
Getting back on topic, I was talking to a conservative acquaintance and we both agreed that 'dancing in the streets' is a disturbing response. I was shocked and appalled when the bodies of American servicemen were dragged through the streets in Somalia. I had always hoped that we would not be like that. Killing an enemy is necessary in war. Feeling resolution, relief, and even satisfaction is reasonable. Expressing joyful exuberance in the taking of a life or lives is an attitude I would like to leave to our enemies as one of the differences between us that we are fighting to uphold.
Now as far as the dancing in the streets business, for me it isn't a moral issue so much as an intelligence issue. He's dead. Someone else was put in danger to accomplish the mission and they succeeded. Good on them. Dipshits dancing in Times Square is about the same as sports fans running through the streets like they had scored the championship winning point themselves. Fuck off, enjoy the moment and act like adults.
Anyone remember the story of Esther from the Old Testament?
[indent]"The villain of the story is Haman, an arrogant, egotistical advisor to the king. Haman hated Mordecai because Mordecai refused to bow down to Haman, so Haman plotted to destroy the Jewish people. In a speech that is all too familiar to Jews, Haman told the king,
"There is a certain people scattered abroad and dispersed among the peoples in all the provinces of your realm. Their laws are different from those of every other people's, and they do not observe the king's laws; therefore it is not befitting the king to tolerate them." (Esther 3:8). The king gave the fate of the Jewish people to Haman, to do as he pleased to them. Haman planned to exterminate all of the Jews."[/indent]
Sound a little familiar? Kind of like Bin Laden wanting to destroy the "infidel" Westerners because they do not obey the laws of Islam?
[indent]"[Ester's cousin] Mordecai, [who had raised her as if she were his daughter], persuaded Esther to speak to the king on behalf of the Jewish people. This was a dangerous thing for Esther to do, because anyone who came into the king's presence without being summoned could be put to death, and she had not been summoned. Esther fasted for three days to prepare herself, then went into the king. He welcomed her. Later, she told him of Haman's plot against her people. The Jewish people were saved, and
Haman and his ten sons were hanged on the gallows that had been prepared for Mordecai."[/indent]
Any guesses what happened next?
[indent]"19Therefore the Jews of the villages, that dwelt in the unwalled towns, made the fourteenth day of the month Adar
a day of gladness and feasting, and a good day, and of sending portions one to another.
20And Mordecai wrote these things, and sent letters unto all the Jews that were in all the provinces of the king Ahasuerus, both nigh and far,
21To establish this among them,
that they should keep the fourteenth day of the month Adar, and the fifteenth day of the same, yearly, [/indent]
And every year for thousands of years, Jews have celebrated; not the demise of Haman, but the saving of our People. We are commanded to drink until we can no longer tell the difference between "cursed be Haman" and "blessed be Mordechai", not to create debauchery, but "to dissolve the differences between us and encourage unity." "In addition to good food and lots of alcohol, the meal is characterized by its zany raucous atmosphere - trombones blare, silly string flies, and grown men dance together for hours on end."
If the events of the last 20+ years occurred during biblical times, the stories about which were passed down from generation to generation by word of mouth, to later be inscribed in a book, there is little doubt that it would be told very similarly. Good triumphed over evil. A mighty "King/Nation" took down the enemy to save the People who were the targets of said evil.
And the People rejoiced at their salvation.
Thus is human nature. Perhaps because I've been celebrating in such a way for my entire life, based on a very similar story in history, I view the celebratory atmosphere through a different lens than others. I don't find it offensive, I find it cathartic.
Sources:
http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday9.htm
http://purim.spike-jamie.com/meal.html
http://judaism.about.com/od/holidays/a/The-Story-Of-Purim.htm
http://kingjbible.com/esther/7.htm
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Esther+9&version=KJVI get it now. :rolleyes:
How about hanging his body at Ground Zero and allowing those who choose to spit on him.
Here's a sure-fire best seller. Put pictures of bin Laden on those men's room urinal deodorizer cakes. Guaranteed to sell out.
So you think it would have been ok to desecrate the body?
Yes. Chop it up and drop bits of it for shark bait. But a single big bit of shark bait works equally well.
However, I WOULD like it if you would slather me in bacon and send ME on tour. Sans the dead part, of course.
How about the peeing on you part? ;)
Here's a sure-fire best seller. Put pictures of bin Laden on those men's room urinal deodorizer cakes. Guaranteed to sell out.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/entrepreneur-stuck-with-40000-unsold-bin-laden-uri,161/Here's a sure-fire best seller. Put pictures of bin Laden on those men's room urinal deodorizer cakes. Guaranteed to sell out.
I get the humor in the posts here.
What I was trying to address, albeit w/o acknowledging the humor that I didnt find all that funny, was the real hate expressed by the likes of Gafney, Geller, Breitbart, etc., the Mercenary's guys and gal.
Breitbart, etc.
Where did Breitbart express hate?
Where did Breitbart express hate?
Andrew Breitbart's BigPeace.com (posted earlier):
Just as Islamist extremists sought to use Ground Zero as a triumphal place to build their mosque (right :eyebrow:), the United States should use the site to display Osama bin Laden’s naked body for all Americans to see. We have a right to view our nation’s tormentor face to face, to make sure he is dead, and to spit on him if we choose.
http://bigpeace.com/jmwaller/2011/05/02/display-bin-ladens-body-at-ground-zero-then-destroy-the-al-qaeda-legacy/
His site, he is accountable.
Andrew Breitbart's BigPeace.com (posted earlier):
"Just as Islamist extremists sought to use Ground Zero as a triumphal place to build their mosque (right ), the United States should use the site to display Osama bin Laden’s naked body for all Americans to see. We have a right to view our nation’s tormentor face to face, to make sure he is dead, and to spit on him if we choose."
His site, he is accountable.
Why is that hate speech?
Because you disagree with it? Because you say it is so?
Anyone remember the story of Esther from the Old Testament?
[indent]"The villain of the story is Haman, an arrogant, egotistical advisor to the king. Haman hated Mordecai because Mordecai refused to bow down to Haman, so Haman plotted to destroy the Jewish people. In a speech that is all too familiar to Jews, Haman told the king, "There is a certain people scattered abroad and dispersed among the peoples in all the provinces of your realm. Their laws are different from those of every other people's, and they do not observe the king's laws; therefore it is not befitting the king to tolerate them." (Esther 3:8). The king gave the fate of the Jewish people to Haman, to do as he pleased to them. Haman planned to exterminate all of the Jews."[/indent]
Sound a little familiar? Kind of like Bin Laden wanting to destroy the "infidel" Westerners because they do not obey the laws of Islam?
[indent]"[Ester's cousin] Mordecai, [who had raised her as if she were his daughter], persuaded Esther to speak to the king on behalf of the Jewish people. This was a dangerous thing for Esther to do, because anyone who came into the king's presence without being summoned could be put to death, and she had not been summoned. Esther fasted for three days to prepare herself, then went into the king. He welcomed her. Later, she told him of Haman's plot against her people. The Jewish people were saved, and Haman and his ten sons were hanged on the gallows that had been prepared for Mordecai."[/indent]
Any guesses what happened next?
[indent]"19Therefore the Jews of the villages, that dwelt in the unwalled towns, made the fourteenth day of the month Adar a day of gladness and feasting, and a good day, and of sending portions one to another.
20And Mordecai wrote these things, and sent letters unto all the Jews that were in all the provinces of the king Ahasuerus, both nigh and far,
21To establish this among them, that they should keep the fourteenth day of the month Adar, and the fifteenth day of the same, yearly, [/indent]
And every year for thousands of years, Jews have celebrated; not the demise of Haman, but the saving of our People. We are commanded to drink until we can no longer tell the difference between "cursed be Haman" and "blessed be Mordechai", not to create debauchery, but "to dissolve the differences between us and encourage unity." "In addition to good food and lots of alcohol, the meal is characterized by its zany raucous atmosphere - trombones blare, silly string flies, and grown men dance together for hours on end."
If the events of the last 20+ years occurred during biblical times, the stories about which were passed down from generation to generation by word of mouth, to later be inscribed in a book, there is little doubt that it would be told very similarly. Good triumphed over evil. A mighty "King/Nation" took down the enemy to save the People who were the targets of said evil. And the People rejoiced at their salvation.
Thus is human nature. Perhaps because I've been celebrating in such a way for my entire life, based on a very similar story in history, I view the celebratory atmosphere through a different lens than others. I don't find it offensive, I find it cathartic.
Sources:
http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday9.htm
http://purim.spike-jamie.com/meal.html
http://judaism.about.com/od/holidays/a/The-Story-Of-Purim.htm
http://kingjbible.com/esther/7.htm
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Esther+9&version=KJV
An interesting perspective, thanks Jill. Though, I'd have preferred to think that we as a society have become more civilised over the past 2-3000 years.
Why is that hate speech?
Because you disagree with it? Because you say it is so?
It is speech to incite anti-Islam sentiments in the same manner as Gafney and Geller.
From the bullshit about the Islamic extremists using Ground Zero build a mosque to condoning spitting on the dead body.
I get the humor in the posts here.
Apparently not - You shit on me for no reason.
Apparently not - You shit on me for no reason.
My apologizes if I misread your post.
It is speech to incite anti-Islam sentiments.....
From the bullshit about the Islamic extremists using Ground Zero build a mosque to condoning spitting on the dead body.
Sounds like an opinion to me. He is not saying everyone else should go out and do what he wants to do.
And so since you think other people believe that Islamists who live in that area wanted to build a mosque at ground zero that makes them extremists or that you know what their motivation is as to why they chose such a location? Please explain how you know what their motivation was to place the mosque at such a location?
So he wants to be able to spit on Bin Laden's dead body? Millions around the world would most likely join him. That does not make that action against that one man "hate speech".
IN OTHER NEWS:
GENERALISSIMO FRANCISCO FRANCO IS STILL DEAD.
(Brought to you by Bartles and James Whine and Poor Pitiful Me Records)
An interesting perspective, thanks Jill. Though, I'd have preferred to think that we as a society have become more civilised over the past 2-3000 years.
Agreed! Great perspective.
Now I want a haman tashan (sp), except the kind my grandma made with prunes...ewwww.
An interesting perspective, thanks Jill. Though, I'd have preferred to think that we as a society have become more civilised over the past 2-3000 years.
You're welcome. But methinks you expect too much. It takes
millions of years to evolve. Thousands is a mere speck of dust in the desert.
Besides, part of the point of that story is that thousands of years later, millions (maybe billions?) of people the world over are still using the Bible as their moral guide. That being the case, it should be easy to understand why people are still behaving the way we did during Bible
times.
Apparently not - You shit on me for no reason.
My apologizes if I misread your post.
Awww, every body sing!
Kumbaya, my Lord, Kumbaya.
This thread needs more sponstators.
Ooooooohhhhhh Looooooorrrrrdddd......Kummmmbbbaaaaayyyaaaa.
Agreed! Great perspective.
Now I want a haman tashan (sp), except the kind my grandma made with prunes...ewwww.
Thank you. :) And yeah, the poppy seed ones are killah! Mmmm, now I'm hungry, too.
Ooooooohhhhhh Looooooorrrrrdddd......Kummmmbbbaaaaayyyaaaa.
(baritone) Someone's postin' here
Kumbaya
Someone's postin' here
Kumbaya
Someone's postin' here
Kumbaya
Ohhhh looooo-oooord, Kumbaya
Ooooooohhhhhh Looooooorrrrrdddd......Kummmmbbbaaaaayyyaaaa.
(baritone) Someone's postin' here
Kumbaya
Someone's postin' here
Kumbaya
Someone's postin' here
Kumbaya
Ohhhh looooo-oooord, Kumbaya
Nice harmony!
PC out of control
WASHINGTON — The top staffer for the Senate Indian Affairs Committee is objecting to the U.S. military's use of the code name "Geronimo" for Osama bin Laden during the raid that killed the al-Qaida leader.
http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/senate-official-wrong-to-934034.htmlThey could have just called it Operation Kill Sand N*****. :eyebrow:
They could have just called it Operation Kill Sand N*****. :eyebrow:
Or they could have just nick named him Obama... I am sure no one would have cared about that one! Not!
Sy Hersh, Abetted by Olbermann, Slandered SEALs That Later Killed Bin Laden as Cheney's Personal Assassins
The Navy SEALs who killed bin Laden are being widely hailed as heroes -- in stark contrast to previous descriptions of them from liberals in the media.
Read more:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jack-coleman/2011/05/03/sy-hersh-abetted-olbermann-slandered-seals-later-killed-bin-laden-chen#ixzz1LPYG4LMH Nearly flawlessly executing the operation in Pakistan to raid the compound where Osama bin Laden was living – among the military and police leadership of Pakistan by the way – the U.S. Navy’s SEAL Team Six along with elements of other U.S. government assets killed America’s most wanted man. This is a victory for all of us – no doubt. A tremendous Bravo Zulu to the men and women who made it possible and gave the operation the best chance of success. Bin Laden is dead. What I am hearing from the media, the government, and our President, however, is making me queezy...
http://bigpeace.com/jguandolo/2011/05/03/bin-laden-is-dead-and-i-dont-feel-so-good-myself/#more-112676http://bigpeace.com/jguandolo/2011/05/03/bin-laden-is-dead-and-i-dont-feel-so-good-myself/#more-112676
From the same article, the Muslim Brotherhood is insidiously infiltrating American society and the federal government through some nefarious connections to every major Islamic organization in the country as well as a Muslim appointee to a DHS advisory committee:
From the overwhelming evidence [COLOR="Red"](link?)[/COLOR] entered at the US v Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development trial (HLF) it was revealed that the Muslim Brotherhood Movement in the United States has significant infrastructure here and that the most prominent Islamic Organizations in the U.S. are controlled by the Muslim Brotherhood to include the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), the North American Islamic Trust (NAIT), the Muslim Students Association (MSA), the International Institute of Islamic Thought (IIIT), the Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA), the Fiqh Council of North America, and the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), a Hamas entity.
We know from the MB itself and from a large amount of evidence [COLOR="Red"](link?)[/COLOR], to include the US v Sabri Benkhala case, that the Muslim American Society (MAS) is a significant MB organization founded by three key MB leaders.
They cite evidence in lawsuits, documents, etc, but never provide links. Mostly they just link to each other as evidence or expect readers to take them at their word.
Mercenary, maybe you have links to the source documents?
As I said in another discussion, it is reminiscent of the McCarthy red-baiting era of the past.
The extremists making the allegations dont have to prove it, but rather those they charge with ties to terrorist organization must prove they do not have such ties.
Sy Hersh, Abetted by Olbermann, Slandered SEALs That Later Killed Bin Laden as Cheney's Personal Assassins
Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jack-coleman/2011/05/03/sy-hersh-abetted-olbermann-slandered-seals-later-killed-bin-laden-chen#ixzz1LPYG4LMH
I'm sure it will come as no surprise to you, but do you know who I blame for this misunderstanding?
George W. Bush & Dick Cheney.
The manner in which they executed the entire Afghanistan/Iraq/"War on Terror" debacle was deceitful from the start. It was done with subterfuge and coverups. We had the outing of a CIA agent's identity because her husband dared expose the "yellow cake" lie. We had Blackwater. We had a diversion from the real enemy -- the Taliban and Al Qaeda -- to an act of sheer vengeance against a sovereign leader who they knew posed no real risk, nor were they harboring Al Qaeda, let alone "Enemy Number 1", Osama bin Laden. We had Abu Gharib. We had "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques," aka torture -- orders that were
kept secret from even Congress.
When you have leadership that
acts sneaky and underhanded, is there any surprise that they are
viewed as sneaky and underhanded?
Why was there no explanation by the Administration as to who these "assassins" were? Why were we not informed as to who they were targeting and/or "taking out" in our name?
Therein lies the difference between the Obama Administration and the Bush Administration with regard to opinion about JSOC. President Obama utilized them with the full awareness of pertinent members of Congress, the CIA, and every one of his top Security Advisers. And when the act was carried out, the American public was
informed.
Not so with Bush/Cheney.
They reaped what they sowed. Unfortunately, as in many other circumstances, they didn't care who became "collateral damage," even if that meant it was JSOC.
I'm sure it will come as no surprise to you, but do you know who I blame for this misunderstanding?
George W. Bush & Dick Cheney.
We had "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques," aka torture -- orders that were kept secret from even Congress.
BS. Pelosi even admitted they were briefed.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/08/AR2007120801664.html
Why was there no explanation by the Administration as to who these "assassins" were? Why were we not informed as to who they were targeting and/or "taking out" in our name?
Need to know. You didn't need to know.
Therein lies the difference between the Obama Administration and the Bush Administration with regard to opinion about JSOC. President Obama utilized them with the full awareness of pertinent members of Congress, the CIA, and every one of his top Security Advisers. And when the act was carried out, the American public was informed.
More bs, the American public does not need to know.
They reaped what they sowed. Unfortunately, as in many other circumstances, they didn't care who became "collateral damage," even if that meant it was JSOC.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Where is the liberal outcry over the drone attacks authorized continually by Obama, and in fact, significantly increased in frequency, and the "collateral damage they have caused?
..... but rather those they charge with ties to terrorist organization must prove they do not have such ties.
The burden is on the Muslim Brotherhood, they have a long history of support and birth as a terrorist organization.
Nice set of excuses to brush off the constant lies, deceit and subterfuge associated with the Bush Administration, as if their behavior had nothing whatsoever to do with how the public perceived things then, in comparison to how we're perceiving things now.
My post wasn't intended as an opportunity for you to pick it apart with your snotty "need to know" bullshit, implying that I'm stupid about how things work with secret ops. It was meant as an illustration as to why Keith Olbermann and "the Left" would hear about a secret group of men going out and doing "hits" at the bequest of Dick Cheney, and call them "assassins", as opposed to hearing about an operation to take out the world's most wanted terrorist under Barack Obama and hailing those same men as heroes.
You're the one who made the post suggesting that Liberals are hypocrites for hailing Team 6 as heroes today, but having called them assassins in the past. I'm attempting to explain to you WHY that might be. Do you want to understand or do you just want to demonize your political opponents?
The burden is on the Muslim Brotherhood, they have a long history of support and birth as a terrorist organization.
Thats how it works in an oppressive state. The person/organization charged has to prove innocence.
In America, we do things differently. If one makes allegations against another person/organization, the burden of proof rests with the one making the charge.
Gafney/Geller/Breitbart have the obligation to offer more than the undocumented court "evidence" or innuendo.
CAIR or other Islamic organizations or Kareem Shora (appointed to the DHS advisory committee) do not have to prove their innocence.
McCarthyism is the practice of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence
Nice set of excuses to brush off the constant lies, deceit and subterfuge associated with the Bush Administration, as if their behavior had nothing whatsoever to do with how the public perceived things then, in comparison to how we're perceiving things now.
My post wasn't intended as an opportunity for you to pick it apart with your snotty "need to know" bullshit, implying that I'm stupid about how things work with secret ops. It was meant as an illustration as to why Keith Olbermann and "the Left" would hear about a secret group of men going out and doing "hits" at the bequest of Dick Cheney, and call them "assassins", as opposed to hearing about an operation to take out the world's most wanted terrorist under Barack Obama and hailing those same men as heroes.
You're the one who made the post suggesting that Liberals are hypocrites for hailing Team 6 as heroes today, but having called them assassins in the past. I'm attempting to explain to you WHY that might be. Do you want to understand or do you just want to demonize your political opponents?
You missed the point. You have no need to know.
Thats how it works in an oppressive state. The person/organization charged has to prove innocence.
In America, we do things differently. If one makes allegations against another person/organization, the burden of proof rests with the one making the charge.
Gafney/Geller/Breitbart have the obligation to offer more than the undocumented court "evidence" or innuendo.
Your opinion. I say an organization that has a long and well documented history of the support of terrorism has the burden of proof that they have changed their ways, not the other way around.
Nice try in an attempt to label those who disagree with you as supporting McCarthyism. "That dog won't hunt", Willie "Cigar" Clinton.
Your opinion. I say an organization that has a long and well documented history of the support of terrorism has the burden of proof that they have changed their ways, not the other way around.
Nice try in an attempt to label those who disagree with you as supporting McCarthyism. "That dog won't hunt", Willie "Cigar" Clinton.
It is not a matter of disagreeing with me.
It is a matter of how we do things in this country.
Your guys and gal smear organizations and citizens in this country with alleged evidence and innuendos about their "affiliations" and refuse to document it with facts.
That my friend is McCarthyism at its worst.
It is not a matter of disagreeing with me.
It is a matter of how we do things in this country.
Your guys and gal smear organizations and citizens in this country with alleged evidence and innuendos about their "affiliations" and refuse to document it with facts.
No it has to do with the organization you are trying to legitimize. You don't get to define, "how we do things in this country". You don't get to set the bar as a faceless nameless poster on a web forum. What are your credentials that allow you to do that?
The history of the Muslim Brotherhood is well documented. Prove me wrong.
The history of the Muslim Brotherhood is well documented. Prove me wrong.
Where is the documented evidence that the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), the Muslim Students Association (MSA) or Muslim American Society (MAS) have ties to the Muslim Brotherhood.
Or that Arif Alikhan or Kareen Shora, two muslims serving in the DHS and who have been smeared by your friends based on inuendo and undocumented "evidence", have ties to the Muslim Brotherhood
McCarthyism in its newest iteration.
Would that be like posting videos of selected Tea Party members making racists remarks and concluding that the Tea Party is racist?
You missed the point. You have no need to know.
You're the one who's missing the point.
But as to your off-subject point, you're wrong. On many issues the citizens of this country damn well need to know what our government is up to in our name. Why in the hell do you think the framers gave us those beloved Second Amendment rights that your side always crows about?
We haven't found reason enough to overthrow the government to this point, but you'd bloody well best believe that if my government is TORTURING people, "We the People" need to know about it so we can put a stop to it to the extent we are able. And if the right circumstances present themselves, you're damn straight I'll be taking up arms in the formation of an "organized militia" if necessary.
Would that be like posting videos of selected Tea Party members making racists remarks and concluding that the Tea Party is racist?
Oh, SNAP!
You're the one who's missing the point.
But as to your off-subject point, you're wrong. On many issues the citizens of this country damn well need to know what our government is up to in our name. Why in the hell do you think the framers gave us those beloved Second Amendment rights that your side always crows about?
We haven't found reason enough to overthrow the government to this point, but you'd bloody well best believe that if my government is TORTURING people, "We the People" need to know about it so we can put a stop to it to the extent we are able. And if the right circumstances present themselves, you're damn straight I'll be taking up arms in the formation of an "organized militia" if necessary.
Fuck off. You just don't always need to know. I don't care about the rest of your liberal tripe.
Fuck off. You just don't always need to know. I don't care about the rest of your liberal tripe.
I can see no good coming from a government being able to secretly torture people. This never ends well.
Also, the Muslim Brotherhood are a joke. They are loud, but say nothing. Nobody in Egypt who isn't an actual member listens to a word they say.
No it has to do with the organization you are trying to legitimize. You don't get to define, "how we do things in this country". You don't get to set the bar as a faceless nameless poster on a web forum. What are your credentials that allow you to do that?
The history of the Muslim Brotherhood is well documented. Prove me wrong.
YOU have to prove yourself right. Burden of proof is on you. You can't make a statement and not back it up with documented facts, then tell someone else that burden is on them.
INNOCENT until proven guilty. Not the other way around.
Just like in a law suit, burden of proof is on the person making the accusation. You are making the accusation, therefor, it is your responsibility to provide the proof.
When we look at what the people need to know about what the government is up to, there are a number of different perspectives, and they certainly don't all have the same answer.
Surely anyone can understand that if a government has charged the military or some other agency to deal with a certain individual, it's not going to be helpful if everyone in the country knows what's going on, therefore the people find out after the fact and then wonder why they weren't consulted.
The purpose of having a democratically elected government is so that every person has the right to have a say in who represents their own personal views in government because we all understand that if every decision had to be made with the approval of every person, we'd never get anywhere.
So, you vote for your representative and trust that they're going to make the right decisions on your behalf. If you're not happy with it, you don't vote for them again.
If you don't vote, IMO, you shouldn't have a right to complain either way.
YOU have to prove yourself right. Burden of proof is on you. You can't make a statement and not back it up with documented facts, then tell someone else that burden is on them.
INNOCENT until proven guilty. Not the other way around.
Just like in a law suit, burden of proof is on the person making the accusation. You are making the accusation, therefor, it is your responsibility to provide the proof.
No. The burden is on the Muslim Brotherhood. They have the history. Anyone who supports them assumes the same responsibility. If you think you can defend them, go ahead.
OH Snap to that bitch!
http://ironicsurrealism.blogivists.com/2011/02/17/wisconsin-day-of-rage-union-protest-sign-crosshairs-on-gov-walker-image/
http://richc.myarchive.us/2011/02/wisconsin-elected-officials-go-head-to-head-with-unions/
http://richc.myarchive.us/2011/02/wisconsin-elected-officials-go-head-to-head-with-unions/
For the record, I dont think the Tea Party is a racist organization.
But simply that your videos of the Muslim Student Association are highly selective.
Religious organizations on college campuses attract a wide range of people, from those who want social connections to those who want to promote a radical agenda.
A Catholic student suggesting that doctors who perform legal abortions should be tried as murderers does not reflect the mission of a Newman Center or Catholic Students Association any more than selected extremists Muslims reflect the mission of the Muslim Students Association.
For the record, I dont think the Tea Party is a racist organization.
But simply that your videos of the Muslim Student Association are highly selective.
Religious organizations on college campuses attract a wide range of people, from those who want social connections to those who want to promote a radical agenda.
A Catholic student suggesting that doctors who perform illegal abortions should be tried as murderers does not reflect the mission of a Newman Center or Catholic Students Association.
Excuse me, what the fuck does the Tea Party have to do with this discussion.
I posted the video of them making highly inflamatory racist remarks and now you want to talk about the Tea Party????? what the fuck dude.
No. The burden is on the Muslim Brotherhood. They have the history. Anyone who supports them assumes the same responsibility. If you think you can defend them, go ahead.
The defense does not have to prove innocence. The accuser (AKA you) has to prove guilt.
Christians will kill and die for their faith too.
Proof
Cool, I fully support anyone who wants to die for their country. And I will gladly help those I disagree with get there sooner than me.
So what is your point. I don't give a shit about Christians. Or any other God Damm Religious perspective. I only care about the target.
Excuse me, what the fuck does the Tea Party have to do with this discussion.
I posted the video of them making highly inflamatory racist remarks and now you want to talk about the Tea Party????? what the fuck dude.
The point is that your videos of the Muslim students are highly selective as I explained above. They make great propaganda for the haters.
The defense does not have to prove innocence. The accuser (AKA you) has to prove guilt.
Fuck off. Bull shit. You prove the Muslim Brotherhood is a fun loving organization that only wants to promote peace and love in the Middle East, not dominate the political positions exposed by the recent vacuum.
The point is that your videos of the Muslim students are highly selective as I explained above. They make great propaganda for the haters.
As are everyone of your opinions.
Fuck off. Bull shit. You prove the Muslim Brotherhood is a fun loving organization that only wants to promote peace and love in the Middle East, not dominate the political positions exposed by the recent vacuum.
I count three logical fallacies, Mercenary.
Strawman argument
Appeal to ridicule
demanding proof of a negative.
But speaking from experience, the Muslim Brotherhood is no different than the Tea Party in America. Very loud, very obnoxious, and in the final analysis, not a very big deal.
But speaking from experience, the Muslim Brotherhood is no different than the Tea Party in America. Very loud, very obnoxious, and in the final analysis, not a very big deal.
I would agree.... well unless I lived in Egypt. Then I might be a bit more concerned. But these tools don't understand that, so let me have my fun! :D
I would agree.... well unless I lived in Egypt. Then I might be a bit more concerned. But these tools don't understand that, so let me have my fun! :D
Egypt is my home, and nobody pays any attention to the Muslim Brotherhood, except for the people who have already joined it.
They are not a viable political force, and back in the days when they attempted violence, they were about as scary as the Basques.
Egypt is my home, and nobody pays any attention to the Muslim Brotherhood, except for the people who have already joined it.
They are not a viable political force, and back in the days when they attempted violence, they were about as scary as the Basques.
And thank you for that...
Fuck off. You just don't always need to know. I don't care about the rest of your liberal tripe.
Oh how quaint. Don't like losing arguments, I see.
Oh how quaint. Don't like losing arguments, I see.
I have lost nothing. Happy happy joy joy!
OH Snap to that bitch!
You just called me a bitch?
You really are a piece of work, aren't you?
You are a prime example of why I despise Republicans. Utterly incapable of an adult conversation on any topic. And if they don't like what you say, they resort to nasty, ugly rhetoric against their opponent. Your mother must be so proud.
I count three logical fallacies, Mercenary.
Strawman argument
Appeal to ridicule
demanding proof of a negative.
But speaking from experience, the Muslim Brotherhood is no different than the Tea Party in America. Very loud, very obnoxious, and in the final analysis, not a very big deal.
Just three?
Mercenary evidently does not have a problem with ludicrous and inflammatory claims that the Obama administration has been infiltrated by the Muslim Brotherhood because he appointed the two Muslims to high policy positions in the Dept of Homeland Security.
He evidently doesnt have a problem with his extremist anti-Muslims sources smearing those two individuals either and suggesting that they have to prove their innocence.
You just called me a bitch?
You really are a piece of work, aren't you?
You are a prime example of why I despise Republicans. Utterly incapable of an adult conversation on any topic. And if they don't like what you say, they resort to nasty, ugly rhetoric against their opponent. Your mother must be so proud.
You are silly. First, I am not a Republickin, you God Damm fool. You failed to convince me of your partisan bull shit, so you failed in a big way. No big deal. We just disagree. I could give a crap. None of your feelings or opinions change my lifestyle, my income, my relationships with other people, and really have no effect on me what so ever. No big deal. Just move on with your piece of shit life and quit blaming others for your crap life. Your opinions are insignificant. It really should not be life changing for you. Plenty of people in life disagree and you just happen to fall into the category of people who I think do not count.
Just three?
Mercenary evidently does not have a problem with ludicrous claims that the Obama administration has been infiltrated by the Muslim Brotherhood because he appointed the two Muslims to high policy positions in the Dept of Homeland Security.
He evidently doesnt have a problem with his extremist anti-Muslims sources smearing those two individuals either and suggesting that they have to prove their innocence.
Wait. All Muslims are in the Muslim Brotherhood?
Just three?
Mercenary evidently does not have a problem with ludicrous and inflammatory claims that the Obama administration has been infiltrated by the Muslim Brotherhood because he appointed the two Muslims to high policy positions in the Dept of Homeland Security.
He evidently doesnt have a problem with his extremist anti-Muslims sources smearing those two individuals either and suggesting that they have to prove their innocence.
But yet you can not prove me wrong.... carry on.
I have nothing against Muslims and you cannot prove as such.
You are silly. First, I am not a Republickin fool. You failed to convince me of your partisan bull shit, so you failed in a big way. No big deal. We just disagree. I could give a crap. None of your feelings or opinions change my lifestyle, my income, my relationships with other people, and really have no effect on me what so ever. No big deal. Just move on with your piece of shit life and quit blaming others for your crap life. Your opinions are insignificant. It really should not be life changing for you. Plenty of people in life disagree and you just happen to fall into the category of people who I think do not count.
:|
Wait. All Muslims are in the Muslim Brotherhood?
I certainly never said that!
Just three?
Mercenary evidently does not have a problem with ludicrous and inflammatory claims that the Obama administration has been infiltrated by the Muslim Brotherhood because he appointed the two Muslims to high policy positions in the Dept of Homeland Security.
He evidently doesnt have a problem with his extremist anti-Muslims sources smearing those two individuals either and suggesting that they have to prove their innocence.
And Fairly Unbalanced supports union activists who use violent messages to get support from the masses?
I certainly never said that!
No, just that its ok to smear Muslims organizations in the US or Muslim citizens in the Obama administration with no documented proof and then require that they prove that they have no affiliation with the Muslim Brotherhood
No, just that its ok to smear Muslims organizations in the US or Muslim citizens in the Obama administration with no documented proof and then require that they prove that they have no affiliation with the Muslim Brotherhood
I provided the links. I will let each individual make their own decisions.
Where did I smear "Muslim citizens in the Obama administration"?
You really are reaching now. Please, I mean other than Eric "The Racist" Holder... but I don't recall him being a Muslim....
I'm attempting to explain to you WHY that might be. Do you want to understand or do you just want to demonize your political opponents?
I think you answered your own question there m'dear :p
Gotta say Merc, your attitude in this discussion is a little shocking to me. I'm all for robust political debate, but this has descended into outright nastiness and it seems mainly to be coming from you and mainly to be unprovoked. Telling people to fuck off and calling them bitches is no way to debate politics. I'm genuinely surprised. You can be an aggressive SOB in discussions, but you don't usually stoop that low.
When we look at what the people need to know about what the government is up to, there are a number of different perspectives, and they certainly don't all have the same answer.
Surely anyone can understand that if a government has charged the military or some other agency to deal with a certain individual, it's not going to be helpful if everyone in the country knows what's going on, therefore the people find out after the fact and then wonder why they weren't consulted.
The purpose of having a democratically elected government is so that every person has the right to have a say in who represents their own personal views in government because we all understand that if every decision had to be made with the approval of every person, we'd never get anywhere.
So, you vote for your representative and trust that they're going to make the right decisions on your behalf. If you're not happy with it, you don't vote for them again.
If you don't vote, IMO, you shouldn't have a right to complain either way.
I primarily agree with this. We don't need to know everything there is to know about covert operations. There's a reason those operations are "covert" in the first place.
But when your government has lied the country into war, has committed acts of torture, has exposed the identity of a CIA agent to further their political agenda, among other unnecessary lies and deceptions, it should be no wonder that when those who are angered by that behavior from our government, learn of a "secret" group who are charged with sneaking into other countries and killing people
at the sole bequest of the Vice-President (which is what was apparently known at the time), that we would characterize them as "assassins".
Under a different government that has no known history of lying us into a war, risking people's lives to cover their own political asses, or torturing prisoners, when we learn of a covert operation to take out the Most Wanted Man in the world, we're less likely to first presume the worst.
This is a concept that Mercenary doesn't seem to grasp. But the American public grasped it
handily in 2008 and voted the Party of Lies & Torture out on their asses. As you correctly point out, that is our primary remedy under our current form of government.
I part ways slightly with you on the contention that if you don't vote you can't complain. My husband is a resident alien, and as such, he's not
allowed to vote. But what our government does or doesn't do still affects him as much as it does you or me. The same could be said of teens who haven't reached voting age yet. I don't think they shouldn't be allowed to complain.
For the record, I dont think the Tea Party is a racist organization.
But simply that your videos of the Muslim Student Association are highly selective.
Religious organizations on college campuses attract a wide range of people, from those who want social connections to those who want to promote a radical agenda.
A Catholic student suggesting that doctors who perform legal abortions should be tried as murderers does not reflect the mission of a Newman Center or Catholic Students Association any more than selected extremists Muslims reflect the mission of the Muslim Students Association.
It should tell you something that you have to literally draw this man a picture in order to try to get him to understand what should have been clear with your first post. It tells
me all
I need to know, that even with this further illustration of your well-made point, his response is to cuss at you, too.
I think you answered your own question there m'dear :p
Gotta say Merc, your attitude in this discussion is a little shocking to me. I'm all for robust political debate, but this has descended into outright nastiness and it seems mainly to be coming from you and mainly to be unprovoked. Telling people to fuck off and calling them bitches is no way to debate politics. I'm genuinely surprised. You can be an aggressive SOB in discussions, but you don't usually stoop that low.
First of all, I recognize that I will not in any way change any one of their opinions in any way, no matter what I post, how many links I post, or what my opinion is... That is a given. It has become self evident. None of these people respect me or my opinion, a given, I can accept that. Why should I give them any quarter given the disparaging remarks and comment they have made towards me? Fuck that. I have no time or inclination to give any degree of respect for people like that. Life is what it is. Some people we get along with. Some we do not. Some we agree to disagree. These scumbags are none of the above. There is no mutual ground. I am completely cool with that. It changes none of my Karma.
You are silly. First, I am not a Republickin, you God Damm fool. You failed to convince me of your partisan bull shit, so you failed in a big way. No big deal. We just disagree. I could give a crap. None of your feelings or opinions change my lifestyle, my income, my relationships with other people, and really have no effect on me what so ever. No big deal. Just move on with your piece of shit life and quit blaming others for your crap life. Your opinions are insignificant. It really should not be life changing for you. Plenty of people in life disagree and you just happen to fall into the category of people who I think do not count.
"Fuck off", "you bitch," and now "you G-d Damn fool," "your piece of shit life," and "your crap life."
And this is "no big deal, we just disagree" in your world?
You know nothing of my life, dude. What's the matter with you? Are you mentally ill or something? You certainly seem to have come unhinged.
These scumbags are none of the above. There is no mutual ground. I am completely cool with that. It changes none of my Karma.
Karma disagrees with you, too.
I primarily agree with this. We don't need to know everything there is to know about covert operations. There's a reason those operations are "covert" in the first place.
But yet you could not respond to me with that. Ok. Cool. You are weak.
bla, bla, bla, bla, blaaaaa....
The rest of your points are insignificant and completely ridiculous. But free to believe your fantasy world...
But yet you could not respond to me with that. Ok. Cool. You are weak.
...
She pretty much did Merc. You just weren't fucking listening.
"Fuck off", "you bitch," and now "you G-d Damn fool," "your piece of shit life," and "your crap life."
And this is "no big deal, we just disagree" in your world?
You know nothing of my life, dude. What's the matter with you? Are you mentally ill or something? You certainly seem to have come unhinged.
Is this where you cry and tell us all how some Lender held a gun to your head to make you sign the paperwork for a screwed up loan? And then you turn around and blame it on the "system"?
She pretty much did Merc. You just weren't fucking listening.
No, the fool responded to someone else.
Is this where you cry and tell us all how some Lender held a gun to your head to make you sign the paperwork for a screwed up loan? And then you turn around and blame it on the "system"?
Wtf?
Ok. OSAMA is not dead! It was joke already... It was a conspiracy.
But yet you could not respond to me with that. Ok. Cool. You are weak.
No. Quite simply because I wasn't discussing covert operations in general. I was attempting to explain to you why your allegation of hypocrisy on the part of the Left was misplaced, by pointing out the difference between how the American public is treated by each of the Administrations in question.
You're the one who picked apart my post and gave a series of point-by-point "you don't need to know [this particular thing]" retorts.
Not. The. Point. Dude.
What I'm trying to get through your pointy little head is that if:
Person A
REPEATEDLY LIES TO YOU WITH KNOWN FALSEHOODS, ENGAGES IN COVER-UPS, SECRETLY COMMITS CRIMINAL ACTS AGAINST PRISONERS, AND VARIOUS OTHER DECEPTIONS, but
Person B
CONSISTENTLY KEEPS THE PUBLIC INFORMED, HAS NO HISTORY OF FALSIFYING FACTS TO TAKE US TO WAR, AND HAS NOT COMMITTED ANY CRIMINAL ACTS AGAINST PRISONERS
Person B is more likely to be given the benefit of the doubt about the use of covert arms of our military.
But instead of responding to the actual point, you told me to fuck off, called me a bitch and a G-d damn fool, and laughingly referred to my life as crap, simply because you're completely incapable of grasping nuance or articulating a rebuttal argument of any merit.
I don't trust that you'll understand this reasoning, but for the casual reader, there it is.
Bla.. bla... bla...
I just don't care what you think about anything..... You have not changed my mind. You are a God Damm Fool.
The fact that Jill hasn't changed your mind doesn't really tell us anything about Jill. It might however say quite a bit about you.
If the definition of a God Damn Fool is that they cannot change your mind with their aguments then everyone is a God Damn Fool.
And this is why you are such a fool...
REPEATEDLY LIES TO YOU WITH KNOWN FALSEHOODS, ENGAGES IN COVER-UPS, SECRETLY COMMITS CRIMINAL ACTS AGAINST PRISONERS, AND VARIOUS OTHER DECEPTIONS
You believe that Obama has done none of this....
Go to bed now and drink a small glass of warm milk. It will make you sleep better little girl. Good night.
GD Fool.
Who pissed in your Cheerios this morning, Merc?
The fact that Jill hasn't changed your mind doesn't really tell us anything about Jill. It might however say quite a bit about you.
If the definition of a God Damn Fool is that they cannot change your mind with their aguments then everyone is a God Damn Fool.
Cool. Why is that?
I cannot be swayed by some bullshit to see her way? She is right and I am wrong? Oh please explain that one to me Dana? She is nothing more than a person on the internet with an opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.
I reckon you should both cool your jets before you launch yourselves into space. lol
Obviously there was a different understanding of the whole 'need to know' statement and it's resulted in a big argument.
Now you can both just kiss and make up or I'll kick both of your arses. :D
eta: and Merc, you know the name calling isn't cool mate. You're better than that.
I missed something here, which one of them is upset that bin Laden is dead?
Cool. Why is that?
I cannot be swayed by some bullshit to see her way? She is right and I am wrong? Oh please explain that one to me Dana? She is nothing more than a person on the internet with an opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.
I didn;t say she was right, or that you are wrong. I was merely pointing out that you are probably one of the most entrenched individuals I have ever encountered, so the fact that she has been unable to change your views with her arguments becomes meaningless.
And yes, she is just a person on the internet airing her views and attempting to have a political debate with another person on the internet, you. Neither of you are any more or less than that. So why are you treating her with such utter disdain and lack of respect. Nothing she has said, that I have read, in anyway merits the kind of aggression you're displaying.
I really don't understand the need for some of the language that has been used here, it's like being back on one of those horrible boards that are frequented by teenagers.
I reckon you should both cool your jets before you launch yourselves into space. lol
Obviously there was a different understanding of the whole 'need to know' statement and it's resulted in a big argument.
Now you can both just kiss and make up or I'll kick both of your arses. :D
eta: and Merc, you know the name calling isn't cool mate. You're better than that.
Sorry, dear, there'll be no kissing and making up on my part. I'm attempting to debate. Misunderstandings are par for the course. Calling me a bitch and a G-d damn fool and telling me to fuck off aren't generally expected in a debate. Nor are they things I will tolerate from a debate partner. There's no "good faith" on his part, so I have no faith that he will debate honestly or constructively. Hence, no kissing from me.
Let the ass kicking begin if it pleases you.
Obama probably.
LMAO! Touché!
Consider your arse metaphorically kicked then. ;)
I missed something here, which one of them is upset that bin Laden is dead?
Certainly not
me! I'm celebrating like it's
Purim! :p:
I think Merc's pissed off that it happened now :p
Is Osama Dead??!?!? Damm, what did I miss?
I know you are but what am I?
So why are you treating her with such utter disdain and lack of respect.
I guess because she has done nothing more than get what she has given. No big deal, it is what it is...
Consider your arse metaphorically kicked then. ;)
Ooo, the other side now, please. ;)
P.S. Whoever edited the tags, I love you, man! Best laugh I've had most of the day!
Ooo, the other side now, please. ;)
P.S. Whoever edited the tags, I love you, man! Best laugh I've had most of the day!
Its been a load of laughs in a perverted sorta way.
Time to class it up with a poem
IF
If you can keep your head when all (or just one) about you
Are (is) losing theirs (or his) and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all (or one) men doubt you,
But make allowance for their (or his) doubting too;
Its been a load of laughs in a perverted sorta way.
Time to class it up with a poem
IF
If you can keep your head when all (or just one) about you
Are (is) losing theirs (or his) and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all (or one) men doubt you,
But make allowance for their (or his) doubting too;
Ah, Kipling, one of my favorites.
It certainly has been. . . interesting. LOL
Yeah. And after that rousing little trip down the rabbithole, I am off to bed :p
Ooo, the other side now, please. ;)
P.S. Whoever edited the tags, I love you, man! Best laugh I've had most of the day!
Just turn slightly to the left. :)
Oh, and it was me who did the tag for you and merc. :D
Just turn slightly to the left. :)
I'm not sure it's
possible for me to turn any more to the left. :D
Oh, and it was me who did the tag for you and merc. :D
:biggrinlo
I'm not sure it's possible for me to turn any more to the left.
Ain't that the damm truth!
lol...settle down Merc. Didn't you know you luv Jill?
eta: almost as much as you luv me. ;)
I'm attempting to debate.
No, you are attempting to dictate...
Calling me a bitch and a G-d damn fool and telling me to fuck off aren't generally expected in a debate.
There is no debate, there is only you trying to tell us how right you are in your views. There is no exchange, there never has been. Not even before your rant about your loan failure.
Nor are they things I will tolerate from a debate partner. There's no "good faith" on his part, so I have no faith that he will debate honestly or constructively.
You are not now and never have been a "partner". No way, no how. Eva. You are just another POS with a differing opinion. No big deal.
Oh goodie, a new name! Now I'm a bitch, a G-d Damn Fool and a piece of shit. Can I be a twat, too? I've always wanted to be a twat.
As for you thinking I had a loan failure, now I know why your behavior is so bizarre -- you really are on drugs.
Oh goodie, a new name! Now I'm a bitch, a G-d Damn Fool and a piece of shit. Can I be a twat, too? I've always wanted to be a twat.
As for you thinking I had a loan failure, now I know why your behavior is so bizarre -- you really are on drugs.
That is why America is so great. You can be all of those things or none of those things. The choice is yours.....
None of it matters to me. You choose.
I gots no twat, would "slut" be ok?
[YOUTUBE]k80nW6AOhTs[/YOUTUBE]
Classic! did you just call Jill a slut! she will not be happy with you!
I gots no twat, would "slut" be ok?
I'm
totally down with slut! Even my
husband would approve! :cool:
I'm totally down with slut! Even my husband would approve! :cool:
If you don't have pictures we can't believe you. Wait! I see you!
That's pretty bad merc. You're sinking pretty low.
That's pretty bad merc. You're sinking pretty low.
An amazing example of the devolution of a thread.
You aren't very bright, are you, Merc? Been here how long and still haven't figured out how to view photo albums in someone's profile?
Yeah, yeah, you just wanted to post a "disgusting" picture to make fun of me. But by leading off with the admonition that "If [ I ] don't have pictures, [you] can't believe [me]," makes you look like a retard, since I
do have pictures here. Here, I'll make it easy for you:
Suck on that!
That's pretty bad merc. You're sinking pretty low.
I was only joking, sheeeeesh.... :rolleyes:
You aren't very bright, are you. Been here how long and still haven't figured out how to view photo albums in someone's profile?
Good lord, I don't really care what you look like. I have never tried to look at your profile. I just don't care. I was joking with you. Get over yer self. You don't have to defend your ugliness with me.... You are doing a fine job as it is.
I dunno about that merc. You've been giving the lady a pretty hard time and you're starting to look like a bit of a tosser, and personally I think that's sad, cause I know you're not.
Now, are you ready for me to kick your arse? ;)
I dunno about that merc. You've been giving the lady a pretty hard time and you're starting to look like a bit of a tosser, and personally I think that's sad, cause I know you're not.
Now, are you ready for me to kick your arse? ;)
She gets what she gives.
As for you, yea I can take it. No biggie. I have much more respect for you.
Maybe just cause you know me better? Remember there was a time when we didn't see eye to eye.
Maybe just cause you know me better? Remember there was a time when we didn't see eye to eye.
I do. Yes I do. But I respect you. And there in lies the difference....
Dayum - you lost a lot of weight - What's your secret? ;)
I reckon Jill is ok. She's just giving you righties a bit of a going over. Don't be too harsh. She's just taking up the batton for us lefties. ;)
Dayum - you lost a lot of weight - What's your secret? ;)
Weight Watchers. Works everytime!
I'd also add that it took quite some time for us to build the mutual respect we have, but it wouldn't have happened if we both didn't decide to stop and listen once in a while. Don't you reckon?
Dayum - you lost a lot of weight - What's your secret? ;)
I had an imposter pose for me in the first picture. I was undercover in a covert operation, dontchaknow. :D
I've never tried weight watchers. Maybe I should! lol
I had an imposter pose for me in the first picture. I was undercover in a covert operation, dontchaknow. :D
Shit! Why didn't anyone tell me!!?
I'd also add that it took quite some time for us to build the mutual respect we have, but it wouldn't have happened if we both didn't decide to stop and listen once in a while. Don't you reckon?
Can't argue with that. And a lot of agreeing to disagree. And there is not a damm thing wrong with that either. Hell, if I didn't have that I wouldn't have any friends. :lol:
lol...I can see how that would be the case.
Anyway, I just think you could save us all a lot of trouble by skipping the grumpy old conservative bit and getting straight to the bit when you metamorphasise into a mature, generous and entertaining person. ;)
She gets what she gives.
Seriously, dude? Where did I tell you to fuck off, call you a prick, a G-d Damn moron, denigrate your life, make false allegations about you, or post any of the other feces-infected crap you've flung at me?
But I'll tell you this now; you're rude, reactionary, childish, untruthful, nasty and hateful. You need to get a grip of yourself and figure out why you fly off the handle like you do. It's extremely unattractive and does not engender anyone to have even the most remote desire to know you better.
It's extremely unattractive and does not engender anyone to have even the most remote desire to know you better.
I am completely cool with that. In fact I would welcome that from you....
Jill, you'll have better luck with UG - and that's not sayin' much.
Shit! Why didn't anyone tell me!!?
Well now you know. :)
Seriously, dude? Where did I tell you to fuck off, call you a prick, a G-d Damn moron, denigrate your life, make false allegations about you, or post any of the other feces-infected crap you've flung at me?
:lol: your memory is short.
Oooh...I feel so special. lol
Jill, you'll have better luck with UG - and that's not sayin' much.
Wow, that's quite the statement there.
Sad.
:lol: your memory is short.
Show me.
Ya know - while you two are bickering... Osama is DEAD!
Think of the children.
Ya know - while you two are bickering... Osama is DEAD!
Think of the children.
And the kittens.....
My kitten died in 9/11! you insensitive bastard!!
Blame Obama, I mean Osama....
Still no links to me telling you to fuck off, etc., huh, Merc?
Still no links to me telling you to fuck off, etc., huh, Merc?
Nope, just me, it is all about me.
Yeah, we all know why, too. Because there aren't any. You might want to remember that next time you try to accuse me of things never did.
Yeah, we all know why, too. Because there aren't any. You might want to remember that next time you try to accuse me of things never did.
You came on here like a bitch on wheels, you get what you deserved. I have no reservations. Take it like a big girl and move on.
You know what I think is the saddest thing of all?
12 months from now we're going to be having the same arguments for the anniversary of the event.
Can't wait! :rolleyes:
Hey, at least I got a promotion. I'm not just a bitch anymore, I'm a bitch on wheels! Woo Hoo!
Osama can't be dead. I haven't seen the pictures yet.
So Jill doesn't have the right to voice her opinions because she isn't a regular? So you call her inane, childish and hateful names instead of trying to have a reasonable conversation? Yeah, you completely believe in this country's ideals....free speech and all that. :rolleyes:
Jill, keep doing what you're doing hon.
Jill, when he starts with the name calling and cussing its because he's cornered and knows it. His game is weak and always has been. Like mtp says, just keep doing what you're doing.
jill is DA MAN. Well, da woman. :)
Giving Merc just enough rope to hang himself with. Jill can hold her own.
It's unfortunate, though, that the Cellar seems unable to hold an intelligent discussion in politics.
It's not 'the Cellar.'
It's the same character over and over. Someone tries, gets shot down, by being treated like a mongrel dog.
I was dismayed at all the "will you two quit bickering" crap when it's just a repeated pattern and the same player shitting all over the place. jill didn't come out bickering. She came out thoughtful and well read and capable.
Even UG doesn't resort to the kind of crap that transpired here yesterday. His "im, you are ignorant" isn't all that bothersome. We consider the source. We even giggle. He cites. We disagree. It's not harmful.
I'm sorry. I had given up my quest to engage in this crap. I didn't want to be an instigator or supporter of it at all anymore. But it's ridiculous.
Sure, he hangs himself. Every time. But treating humans with differing viewpoints (and in many cases actual cites that illustrate and illuminate) the way he does? It's wrong. And it's why there will never be productive or respectful discourse in politics on the Cellar.
Pop-ins to tell someone how wonderful they are, and repeated reminding of manliness by pointing out which women one would like to scrog, do not negate the sheer hatefulness that transpires.
Flame me. I expect it.
I was dismayed at all the "will you two quit bickering" crap when it's just a repeated pattern and the same player shitting all over the place. jill didn't come out bickering. She came out thoughtful and well read and capable.
.
I agree with this. This is not a 'six of one, half a dozen of the other' argument. Both parties were not equally flinging shit at the other. One was attempting to have a political discussion the other was being an utter cock for no apparent reason and after little if any genuine provocation. Neither were bickering. One was arguing the other was having a public meltdown.
Oh please - I was trying to deflect the issue with a joke.
So IM and Dana - you are taking shots at me over this? WTF?
IM" I was dismayed at all the "will you two quit bickering" crap"
Dana "I agree with this."
Puhlease. You wanna bitch at Merc for being an asshole last night
or every night or whatever your opinion is - do it.
But leave me and my one offhand comment out of it?
I taught my children that the participant in an argument who resorts to name-calling, personal attacks, and ad hominem arguments (and/or a raised voice) is the person arguing the weakest point. With solid, unimpeachable data to back a position up, there is no need to sink to mud-slinging to (try to) win an argument.
Shutting down/silencing the opposition, or attempting to, does not eliminate their standpoint or any validity of same.
I wasn't even considering YOU. I heard that comment from Ali. You may have said it too, but I wasn't 'taking a shot at' you because I was replying to what I read as a generalized consensus.
What are you talking about?
Is it Deep End week or what? Can we get Shark Week back?
Sigh...
Oh please - I was trying to deflect the issue with a joke.
So IM and Dana - you are taking shots at me over this? WTF?
Puhlease. You wanna bitch at Merc for being an asshole last night
or every night or whatever your opinion is - do it.
But leave me and my one offhand comment out of it?
I wasn't aiming anything at you Dave. I was just commenting on the fact that in this case it isn't a case of bickering. I didn't even have anyone in mind who'd said that, except possibly Aliantha (though i did not mean it in a nasty way Ali) who attempted to peacemake by aiming her mock reprimand at both participants.
Did someone finally ask, "When are we going to go after bin Laden?" I was beginning to wonder if anyone would.
So Jill doesn't have the right to voice her opinions because she isn't a regular? So you call her inane, childish and hateful names instead of trying to have a reasonable conversation? Yeah, you completely believe in this country's ideals....free speech and all that. :rolleyes: Jill, keep doing what you're doing hon.
Jill, when he starts with the name calling and cussing its because he's cornered and knows it. His game is weak and always has been. Like mtp says, just keep doing what you're doing.
jill is DA MAN. Well, da woman. :)
Giving Merc just enough rope to hang himself with. Jill can hold her own.
It's unfortunate, though, that the Cellar seems unable to hold an intelligent discussion in politics.
I agree with this. This is not a 'six of one, half a dozen of the other' argument. Both parties were not equally flinging shit at the other. One was attempting to have a political discussion the other was being an utter cock for no apparent reason and after little if any genuine provocation. Neither were bickering. One was arguing the other was having a public meltdown.
I taught my children that the participant in an argument who resorts to name-calling, personal attacks, and ad hominem arguments (and/or a raised voice) is the person arguing the weakest point. With solid, unimpeachable data to back a position up, there is no need to sink to mud-slinging to (try to) win an argument.
Shutting down/silencing the opposition, or attempting to, does not eliminate their standpoint or any validity of same.
Thank you all very much for these kind words. I sincerely appreciate the support.
I sure didn't mean for such a shitstorm to be kicked up around here. I certainly could have ignored him and not allowed the insanity to go on so long. But truth be told, one of the reasons I came looking for you guys again is because the other forum I've been on doesn't allow you to defend against personal attacks or tell a person what you really think of their stupidity. All you can do is report an "offending" post to a moderator and hope they agree with you that it's an attack and delete it. If you engage at all, you get an "infraction" and I've reached my breaking point of having to sit back and let all the stupidity go unchallenged.
At least here I can tell an idiot they're an idiot without fear of getting "spanked" by a moderator. So for that, this forum is a bit of a breath of fresh air. Unfortunately my new-found freedom tasted a little too good to me, and by not letting it go, it slid from fresh into putrid yesterday.
I could have put a stop to it instead of feeding it, so for my part in allowing it to get out of hand, I understand those who were trying to be neutral and just suggest that the "bickering" stop. And after all, they know one of the parties better and would rather remain friendly than create a divide with them, which I totally get. They
may have seen that that one party was being more offensive than the other, but the other (me) was keeping it going. For that I offer apologies. I'm sure you guys don't like seeing the forum dissolve into that kind of mess, regardless of who's more right and who's more wrong.
So, today's a new day. Let's go forward with a new 'tude! :)
Jill for President! :)
I'd buy that for a dollar!
@ TW - No, they were looking for him the whole time. They just didn't tell you apparently.
Frankly, I was surprised he was still alive - I thought he bought the farm awhile ago.
I heard that comment from Ali.
What are you talking about?
I wasn't aiming anything at you.
Ya know - while you two are bickering... Osama is DEAD!
Think of the children.
That is the first reference to bickering in that thread. Merc quoted it, and then today you both jumped in.
Care to try again?
glatt was right. I was being a cock. I was wrong. Oh, and I was pissed off and took it out the wrong way. That is all.
glatt was right. I was being a cock. I was wrong. Oh, and I was pissed off and took it out the wrong way. That is all.
:)
We're all human, and all wrong sometimes. That right there was classy.
I think Merc's just angling for the VP ticket now we've nominated jill for Prez.....
That is the first reference to bickering in that thread. Merc quoted it, and then today you both jumped in.
Care to try again?
Are you accusing me of lying to you Classic?
I was not referring to anybody specifically, but I did have Ali's intervention in mind ( though clearly it was meant in good humour and taken as such by Jill).
This is a seventeen page thread. Do you really think I have kept track of everybody's contributions?
@ Merc: good man.
[eta] I just went back and read that bickering comment. I do recall now noticing it as the humorous comment you intended. Seriously, that one just went by. Maybe the word stuck in Infi's mind, but I am pretty sure it was Ali's peacemaking that she was referring to. It's certainly what came to mind for me.
Specifically this:
I reckon you should both cool your jets before you launch yourselves into space. lol
Obviously there was a different understanding of the whole 'need to know' statement and it's resulted in a big argument.
Now you can both just kiss and make up or I'll kick both of your arses. :D
eta: and Merc, you know the name calling isn't cool mate. You're better than that.
As i said, it wasn't a terrible comment. It was a peacemaking post. Well-intended and well-received. But that's what I was referring to, and am pretty sure Infi was also.
Nope and nope. YOU and I are fine, Dana.
You're right Dana. The 'bickering' word was just more concise and I honestly didn't pick it out of a line-up, looking for classic.
It was the tone. I know it was joking on c's part, and for Ali's part I felt she was just trying to be peacemaker, as you said. I just wanted to point out that the slinging was very one-sided.
You may now go back to being the center of your own lives. ;)
Nope and nope. YOU and I are fine, Dana.
Oh, I'm hurt. And all this time I just kept thinking about you and you and you and every word you say.
You keep bringing me back to bite you. You miss me. You love me and want to have like ten thousand of my babies. :lol:
glatt was right. I was being a cock. I was wrong. Oh, and I was pissed off and took it out the wrong way. That is all.
Thank you for that. I was wrong to egg you on. ::extends hand::
However, I cannot give you the V.P. nod, I'm afraid. A cross-party alliance is actually
too progressive, even for me. ;)
Party on!
...getting "spanked" by a moderator. ...
Oh, have you met our new moderator?
Oh, have you met our new moderator?
I'm not sure. Should I be scared?
Yes, I was trying to deflect the venom with humour. I was trying to engage both parties but mostly failed cause someone had his knickers in a knot. It was actually an interesting discussion at some points so that was worthwhile but I think the biggest issue was that merc didn't want to inform Jill of his personal involvement with some aspects of the recent events and instead gave her a hard time for arguing the point without said knowledge.
There is some truth to what Merc said about Jill wading in at full speed from the start (no disrespect intended to Jill in any way), without prior knowledge of the resident posters. Most of the rest of us would have known merc's background enough to at least give his views credit, even if we didn't happen to agree, whereas Jill was probably not privy to this information and so his insistance of his point of view just seemed like sheer bloody mindedness.
I'm not saying merc was right to treat Jill that way. It would have been better for all of us if he'd just explained why he holds a particular opinion about things, but he decided to be a dick instead. I'm sure we've all had days like that before.
Anyway, I think it's time to move on to the next conflict. Someone else can try and mediate next time! :rolleyes:
So, Aliantha,
Hot or Not?
[size=1]P.S. Just as a small reminder; I'm not really new around here, even though I've been gone a while.[/size]
Yeah I know. I was just giving my story since my name was mentioned a couple of times. ;)
Ahem. Hot or Not? Weigh in!
Frankly, I was surprised he was still alive - I thought he bought the farm awhile ago.
I thought his last message was only six months ago. Maybe longer. But his last message was something like a month after we had discussed this previously. Which means his last message was carried by a courier after his courier had been identified.
Apparently he was also using "Touch of Gray". A hair dye on his beard so that ladies swoon. It worked. His latest fling was a 29 year old. Maybe I should also use his high tech solutions. It kept him alive and sexually active for another 10 years. How many kids did he have? 15?
Anybody notice Viagra with those pictures of his medicines? Or was it his good religious life that made him so healthy and virile.
It's unfortunate, though, that the Cellar seems unable to hold an intelligent discussion in politics.
As others have noted, if UG and Merc could just be vanished from the politics forum, the atmosphere around here would improve stratospherically. I continue to be somewhat amazed that UG has never been banned. He attacks other posters in the nastiest possible way with little or no provocation, and his posts don't even make sense to anyone on either side. My theory is that he goes in and out of a mental institution somewhere. I guess he's kept around for entertainment value.
Merc is something else again. He's smart enough to know better, but he can't resist attacking certain people around here. Merc has spared me the worst of his cutting remarks and even did me a kindness once, so I know deep down there somewhere, there's a reasonable person just dying to come out. Too bad that we don't get to see that person more often.
BTW, Osama has been dead for a few days now. Do we really have to keep going on about it in two separate threads?
You couldn't pay me to even look at that megalomaniac freak of nature. Pictures of him, unavoidable, make me barf. :p:
Funny coincidence. When I was a kid I had a dog named Trump. He was part Golden Retriever, so even the hair kind of matches.
Every time I see 'the Donald' I remember how great that dog was.;)
Is trump not a euphemism for fart over here, then?
IN OTHER NEWS:
GENERALISSIMO FRANCISCO FRANCO IS STILL DEAD.
(Brought to you by Bartles and James Whine and Poor Pitiful Me Records)
I was just thinking about posting that! I guess SNL has sowed a lot of cultural memes about in it's 3 decades.
Ultimately, Bin Laden's death, like Franco's, will not shaped the world. He's a thug who got lucky once.
the atmosphere around here would improve stratospherically
:lol:
ETA: God help me I'm a nerd.
I was just thinking about posting that! I guess SNL has sowed a lot of cultural memes about in it's 3 decades.
Ultimately, Bin Laden's death, like Franco's, will not shaped the world. He's a thug who got lucky once.
Glad someone got that! I still think of when Garrett Morris had an inset on their news segment, for the deaf, and as (Chevy?) reported that Generallissimo Francisco Franco was still dead, Garrett was yelling it really loud in the inset.
And at least a decade and a half of SNL was actually FUNNY. ;)
The head of the CIA admitted yesterday that there was no live video footage of the raid on Osama bin Laden's compound as further doubts emerged about the US version of events.
A photograph released by the White House appeared to show President Barack Obama and his aides in the situation room watching the action as it unfolded. In fact they had little knowledge of what was happening in the compound.
"We had some observation of the approach there, but we did not have direct flow of information as to the actual conduct of the operation itself as they were going through the compound."
:lol2:
It has been duly researched and noted that the conspiracy theory perpetuated by the aforementioned Rag and Muffin Party has been thought to be believed to be an actual absturbation of the affective diagnosis of the hammerstein. Furthermore, no one in attendance actually saw the perp, though all were present and legally sighted. Therefore it is only presumptuous and appropriate to assume that all misgivings given to the Thanksgiving day of the second eve of the twelfth were unfortunately purposely apprehended for the fate of the final sixteen who were to have plundered forward in their assignation.
The U.N.'s independent investigator on extrajudicial killings has called on the United States to reveal more details of the raid on Osama bin Laden's Pakistan hideaway to allow experts to assess the legality of his killing.
South African law professor Christof Heyns said in a statement Friday that Washington "should disclose the supporting facts to allow an assessment in terms of international human rights law standards."
Heyns says "it will be particularly important to know if the planning of the mission allowed an effort to capture Bin Laden."
His statement echoed similar appeals from other U.N. officials, human rights groups and the International Committee of the Red Cross.
U.S. officials say the raid is legal under U.S. and international law.
LinkI thought one of the reasons they went for this kind of assault, rather than a missile strike was because it gave the possibility of taking him prisoner?
My issue with this now is that the story continues to evolve. From what was initially reported, what is being told now is very different.
Griff said it best
here
As we get more information, the bin Laden deal looks like an execution not a fire-fight...
It is certainly starting to look that way.
Not that I'd shed a tear for the bastard, however he went, but killing an unarmed man, like killing a prisoner in your power, is not good karma.
[eta] on the subject of whether or not to show the pics, I heard an interesting analysis of that the other night. Personally, I don;t feel that we need to see it, but the analyst made a really good point that the whole mystique Bin Laden built around himself relied on his ability to fade in and out of the background at will. The disppearing man. He had control over his image at all times. Maybe an image of him defeated wuold serve to replace that image. As it is we are left with the mystique as an abiding feature.
The White House isn't handling this story well.
Well, that at least seems consistent across administrations :p
I thought one of the reasons they went for this kind of assault, rather than a missile strike was because it gave the possibility of taking him prisoner?
I heard it was to minimize civilian death/injury.
There is no chance they wanted him alive unless it was absolutely secret, so they could squeeze all the intell out of him. Obama got good advice on this. Shut him up completely with the brain buster and dump him at sea so the crazies can't make another "Holy Site".
What you need to know, in bold!
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/06/world/asia/06intel.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss
The C.I.A. had Bin Laden’s compound under surveillance for months before American commandos killed him in an assault on Monday, watching and photographing residents and visitors from a rented house nearby, according to several officials briefed on the operation.
The good guys watched him for months! They recorded everybody who came and went!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/cia-spied-on-bin-laden-from-safe-house/2011/05/05/AFXbG31F_story.html
The on-the-ground surveillance work was part of an intelligence-gathering push mobilized after the discovery of the suspicious complex in August that involved virtually every category of collection in the U.S. arsenal, ranging from satellite imagery to eavesdropping efforts aimed at recording voices inside the compound.
Not only that, but they recorded his conversations with these people!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/al-qaeda-data-yields-details-of-planned-plots/2011/05/05/AFFQ3L2F_story.html
Documents seized in the raid on Osama bin Laden’s compound have yielded a bonanza of new intelligence, from names and locations of terrorist suspects to chilling details of al-Qaeda plots to attack targets in the United States and beyond, U.S. officials said Thursday.
Not only that, but from all the documents and laptops and stuff...
Among the files recovered from captured computers and flash drives were documents detailing a previously unknown plan to attack the U.S. commuter rail network, intelligence officials confirmed. The plan, which described a sabotage attack to occur on this year’s 10th anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, was being actively considered as recently as February 2010, Obama administration officials said.
...US Intel knows more than bin Laden could ever even remember to tell us!
And part of what it knows is that he was still fully operational, still in charge, and still planning attacks! Hats off to US intelligence!
The WH is bungling the PR side of this. This could and should have been a resounding positive. Unfortunately they are letting the story evolve. They should have known what their story was going to be and rehearsed it and then not deviated from it. Opening the door to questions of how it was done, how it could have been done differently, and should it have happened at all is just ridiculous. I'd have more respect for them if they handled like they had some spine.
Reporter: There are reports OBL was unarmed...
WH: Fuck you, he was an enemy, now he's dead.
Reporter: There are reports he could have been captured...
WH: Fuck you, we didn't need him alive.
Reporter: The international community has concerns...
WH: Fuck the international community, this was a matter of US concern.
Instead we have waffling about the facts which appears to be weakness of conviction. BHO could take some serious lessons from Bill Clinton. That man could take something that he and everyone knew to be false and actually convince you that he really did believe it.
on the subject of whether or not to show the pics, I heard an interesting analysis of that the other night. Personally, I don;t feel that we need to see it, but the analyst made a really good point that the whole mystique Bin Laden built around himself relied on his ability to fade in and out of the background at will. The disppearing man. He had control over his image at all times. Maybe an image of him defeated wuold serve to replace that image. As it is we are left with the mystique as an abiding feature.
I also, don't need to see dead bodies in general. But here in the US, or at least in Ann Arbor, Michigan, it is the norm to have open casket funerals to give "closure", and I have heard at least three friends from entirely different groups of people and backgrounds/religions say they want to see officialy released pics to be sure. Sure, they could be faked too, but this seems to be the line they need to draw to truly believe.
Reporter: There are reports OBL was unarmed...
WH: Fuck you, he was an enemy, now he's dead.
Reporter: There are reports he could have been captured...
WH: Fuck you, we didn't need him alive.
Reporter: The international community has concerns...
WH: Fuck the international community, this was a matter of US concern.
This is correct. If "the whole world is watching", that is the time to make your point.
Not only that, but from all the documents and laptops and stuff...
[b]...US Intel knows more than bin Laden could ever even remember to tell us!
Wow, they must have waterboarded the shit out of those documents and laptops and stuff, to get results so quickly!
[YOUTUBE]mfF1vkMQ0h0[/YOUTUBE]
Or perhaps you are just a legend in your own mind.
There are those who can only make excuses for not crediting good ideas when they are exposed to them. Some folks are only clinically sane. They contend with me bitterly. And they tend to come apart. So be what your handle claims you are, and go read Graham -- assuming you have both the integrity and the courage, for so many leftward folks think they are supposed to live without either. Annoys the hell out of them when somebody they know does.
A strange mind indeed to quote Michael Graham, who suggests that all of Islam is a terrorist organization.
Read the man and figure out for yourself if he has worthy ideas. After all, how is secondhand trash from you going to persuade anyone you think needs persuading of the rightness of your way? I definitely recommend
That's No Angry Mob, That's My Mom to your attention. Not every idea he's got is going to be worthy, but so what? One can certainly understand a certain -- frustration, directed at Islam and its societies, yes? And what else has Michael Graham come up with? You don't have to take the gun with the cannoli, do you?
Now for your off-kilter remark about "fearmongering," I say to you righteous indignation is not fear. Egg on your face is what you will end up with -- as you generally have. It comes of having to lie to yourself to stay on the Left. Believe me, it ain't worth it. That's why I'm on the right.
As others have noted, if UG and Merc could just be vanished from the politics forum, the atmosphere around here would improve stratospherically. I continue to be somewhat amazed that UG has never been banned. He attacks other posters in the nastiest possible way with little or no provocation, and his posts don't even make sense to anyone on either side. My theory is that he goes in and out of a mental institution somewhere. I guess he's kept around for entertainment value.
That's not an improvement of the atmosphere around here, that is the establishment of an echo chamber, undisturbed by the yes-buts and the ideas of better value. That's the sort of crap the Left ardently desires, that their sorry religion may be imagined The One True Way. One hundred and twenty million untimely deaths say the Left's way is not the True Way. Disbelieve it though you will, there are people who know better than you do. They're over on the Right.
While it does me scant honor to pick on nutbars like tw, his views are altogether too toxic and too prejudicial to leave unchallenged. I don't keep people on Ignore around here either.
But if you insist upon idiocy, you catch hell from me, a non-idiot. If you have nothing visible in the way of values, you catch hell from me, a man of virtue. If you prove by your words that you don't know any better and never did, I spank. Should you dislike the consequences of not thinking well and bleat at me about it, I spank more, until the agonies -- well, grow too great.
Would you like to catch hell from me, Sam-I-Am? Is someone forming a club? The Left usually is not right.
Personally, I do better than that. The hint here is that you can do the same.
I thought April was more entertaining. UG is simply reposting reruns.
Is this a sweeps week?
Ha! It would explain a lot.
He is not dead.
I saw it on the Interweebe. You are all fools.
How do we really know he is dead? Can anyone prove it? Have independent laboratories validated the DNA comparison? Why is everyone so quick to take it at face value he is dead when so many inconsistancies in the initial reports of events are cropping up?
It wouldn't surprise me if he was captured and is being held at Gitmo
How do we really know he is dead? Can anyone prove it? Have independent laboratories validated the DNA comparison? Why is everyone so quick to take it at face value he is dead when so many inconsistancies in the initial reports of events are cropping up?
It wouldn't surprise me if he was captured and is being held at Gitmo
Let's send GW bush to hell. He can recon and get back to us (hopefully?). You'd believe old W, wouldn't you?
From a policing point of view, Sarge has a point. A story that changes that much :eyebrow:
I reckon the old rat is dead, though. Not you Sarge. :D
How do we really know he is dead? Can anyone prove it? Have independent laboratories validated the DNA comparison? Why is everyone so quick to take it at face value he is dead when so many inconsistancies in the initial reports of events are cropping up?
It wouldn't surprise me if he was captured and is being held at Gitmo
I doubt this. It would be disastrous politically, were the secret ever to get out, and why lie in the first place?
"America has Bin Laden, and he's going to be taking part in interesting conversations for the next 30 years" will flush out more terrorists than "They killed him".
Now that bin Laden's gone, would anyone mind too terribly much if the US just gave Afghanistan to India?
Does anyone think that Jill would come back for a Klondike bar?
So much for Bin Laden's boasts the world would fall apart if he was killed.
Two suicide bombs in Pakistan. More Muslims dead, and of course it targeted people who had nothing to do with Bin Laden's death.
Like all terrorists, Al Queda are opportunistic cowards, and don't deserve the attention paid to them - they are a spent force that can only racket around in the desert in future.
Now that bin Laden's gone, would anyone mind too terribly much if the US just gave Afghanistan to India?
That's a sure way to start a nukular war between India and Pakistan.
Not a bad idea.
So much for Bin Laden's boasts the world would fall apart if he was killed.
Two suicide bombs in Pakistan. More Muslims dead, and of course it targeted people who had nothing to do with Bin Laden's death.
Like all terrorists, Al Queda are opportunistic cowards, and don't deserve the attention paid to them - they are a spent force that can only racket around in the desert in future.
:thumb:
So much for Bin Laden's boasts the world would fall apart if he was killed.
Two suicide bombs in Pakistan. More Muslims dead, and of course it targeted people who had nothing to do with Bin Laden's death.
Like all terrorists, Al Queda are opportunistic cowards, and don't deserve the attention paid to them - they are a spent force that can only racket around in the desert in future.
This demonstrates that they cannot use any pre-planned attacks or pre-positioned supplies, because they have to assume that the American government now knows everything.
So they are taking the cheap shots. My guess, however, is that Disneyland California will be their next target.
edit
I mean their next American target. It is cheap, it is easy, and it appeals to their attention-whore mentality.
This morning, sports radio WIP am had a list of the titles of the porn found at Bin Laden's compound. I wish I could remember them all.
I slam, you slam, we all slam for islam
Deep Goat
cop a feel of jameel
This morning, sports radio WIP am had a list of the titles of the porn found at Bin Laden's compound. I wish I could remember them all.
I slam, you slam, we all slam for islam
Deep Goat
cop a feel of jameel
I am thinking he is starring in porn in hell right now.
This is too funny.
The congregation of a Florida church is divided over a decision to include the name of terrorist leader leader Osama bin laden on its prayer list.
Henry Borga, a member of the Holy Name of Jesus Catholic Church in West Palm Beach, added the al Qaeda leader's name to a list of people to be remembered during this Sunday's service.
Borga told Palm Beach Post reporter Rochelle Ritchie his Catholic faith teaches that even the mastermind of the 9/11 plot that killed nearly 3,000 people deserves forgiveness and compassion from God.
Borga's act was in response to the celebratory reactions many expressed upon news of bin Laden's death, including cheering crowds outside the White House.
Linkwhat part do you find funny? I read it... nothing there strikes me as funny.
I'm with V on this one. On the one hand I'm glad they found him and did what needed to be done.
But I also mourn the loss of another life and the wasted potential.
The irony of it all. I guess funny was a poor choice of words.
I'll admit it raised a wry smile from me. Got to admire the guy for doing that.
I'm with V on this one. On the one hand I'm glad they found him and did what needed to be done.
But I also mourn the loss of another life and the wasted potential.
Same. I feel grim satisfaction.
I am thinking he is starring in porn in hell right now.
Surrounded by hundreds of Virgin Sheep.
Five people who would be heroes in America are currently sitting in a Pakistani jail, having been arrested for their part in feeding the CIA information on Osama bin Laden's hideout there.
One of the men arrested includes a Pakistani Army major who officials said copied the license plates of cars visiting Bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad, The New York Times reports. Another person arrested includes the man who owned the safe house rented to the CIA while it gathered information for the May 2 bin Laden operation, the Associated Press reports.
Details of the arrests and the current condition of those arrested are sketchy. The news came to The Times from U.S. officials with knowledge of a closed briefing last week with members of the Senate Intelligence Committee and Michael J. Morell, the deputy C.I.A. director.
A Pakistani government official refused to confirm or deny the arrests in an interview Wednesday with CBS News' Farhan Bokhari.
"No one is allowed to work outside a structured framework," said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. "If there have been any arrests, I suspect that's because these people were working without permission."
Read more:
Interesting development. I think it makes the Pakistani Gov't look even more complicit.
Somebody knew. It sounds like there are quite a few factions within the Paki gov that has no idea what the other parts are doing. That is a bit unsettling given they are the only primarily Muslim nation with nukes.
That has been known about their Gov't for a long time. They are not monolithic.
Its more a melange' of beige yogurt.
While I'm sure the timing is a face-saving move, I'm not sure what else we could expect. If a CIA agent gave info to MI6 outside of the approved channels, they'd probably be off to jail ASAP, even though we are allies.
Complicit or embarrassed. They can't or won't get the job done, then America steps into their backyard and offs the guy on their own regard. Leaving the Pakis looking either weak and ineffective, or plain unwilling to fully confront the radical elements within their own borders. They sure as hell don't want to look like America's lackey, but at the same time it is just as bad to look as if America has to do their fighting for them. The government critics and opponents are having a field day with this I'm sure. It's lose-lose for Pakistan. If they would settle things with India in the east, quit screwing around over land disputes, then they could reallocate their resources to fighting this cancer that is rotting the country from the west. Its their own two-front "war". Save face and continue feuding with India, and not have the ability to fight off the radicals in the west, or swallow their pride with India and work to prevent the true threat to their national stability.
Interesting development. I think it makes the Pakistani Gov't look even more complicit.
As so accurately noted, "They are not monolithic. Its more a melange' of beige yogurt."
And much to my surprise, their nuclear weapons number is hundreds. Pakistan has for a long time been the most dangerous nation to America. A friendly nation also full of friends of our enemies and with nuclear weapons. Even Afghanistan is regarded by many in Pakistan as an enemy. Therefore Pakistan needs to protect the Taliban (certain factions).
During the cold war, America provided the USSR with a fail-safe system similar to one we had. The USSR gladly accepted it and implemented it. Cooler heads existed on both side.
But Pakistan refuses to accept the same fail safe system provided without strings. It is this type thinking, repeated constantly, that makes Pakistan further dangerous.
One can criticize all they want. And that is useless. One must first acknowledge what does exist. Then deal with it. Apparently Hilary Clinton has been doing so with success. The recovery of our secret chopper is a perfect example especially when Pakistan is courting better relations with China.
Pakistan is courting better relations with China.
Which part - It is so fragmented and disorganized. There is no central gov't as we in the western more civilized nations have.
We are dealing with a country that has the educational level of the 14th century, yet technology of the 21st. :neutral:
Which part - It is so fragmented and disorganized. There is no central gov't as we in the western more civilized nations have.
Good question. One part of Pakistan is openly proliferating nuclear weapon technology around the world. We had no idea until Kaddafi told us.
The bin Laden raid simply made it glaringly obvious to top leadership that their own subordinates even have other agendas. It made overt denials that much more difficult.
Sometimes I read where the raid resulted in better US / Pakistani relations. Other reporters report the opposite. Neither is wrong. Each is only reporting from their part of Pakistan. Who are Pakistan's friends and enemies? Well, the US military in Afghanistan would be completely cut off and destroyed without supply lines from Pakistan. But the Afghanistan nation is considered by so many Pakistanis as to be an enemy. The Taliban is Pakistan's ally. Some call the Taliban a creation of Pakistan. Which part of Pakistan created and supported the Taliban? That question has no answer.
We did not make things any better by running an 18 wheeler over the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Unilaterally destroying it by providing nuclear material to India. Making nuclear dangers that much worse. Why should Pakistan trust us when we destroyed that treaty to further arm India?
Worse, we have no idea if we have won or are already defeated in Afghanistan. Pakistan is one factor that defines any victory or defeat.
What a mess.
Complicit or embarrassed. They can't or won't get the job done, then America steps into their backyard and offs the guy on their own regard. Leaving the Pakis looking either weak and ineffective, or plain unwilling to fully confront the radical elements within their own borders. They sure as hell don't want to look like America's lackey, but at the same time it is just as bad to look as if America has to do their fighting for them. The government critics and opponents are having a field day with this I'm sure. It's lose-lose for Pakistan. If they would settle things with India in the east, quit screwing around over land disputes, then they could reallocate their resources to fighting this cancer that is rotting the country from the west. Its their own two-front "war". Save face and continue feuding with India, and not have the ability to fight off the radicals in the west, or swallow their pride with India and work to prevent the true threat to their national stability.
Well stated. I agree that they really can't afford to completely isolate the radical elements, even though they pander and pose as if they are doing something of substance.
bump.
RE Osama Bin Laden. Significant push to take him out months ago. Senior WH staff resisted. This was cause of much strain between HC and Obama/Jarrett. HC and LP were in constant communication over matter – both attempted to convince administration to act. Administration feared failure and resulting negative impact on president. Intel disgusted over politics over national security.
Now Intel already leaking to media facts surrounding how info obtained. Namely from enhanced interrogation efforts via GITMO prisoners. Obama administration placed in corner on this. Some media aware of danger to president RE this and attempting protection. Others looking for further investigation. We are pushing for them to follow through and already meeting with some access.
Point of determination made FOR Obama not BY Obama. Will clarify as details become more clear. Very clear divide between Military and WH. Jarrett marginalized 100% on decision to take out OBL. She played no part. BD worked with LP and HC to form coalition to force CoC to engage.
IMPORTANT SPECIFIC: When 48 hour go order issued, CoC was told, not requested. Administration scrambled to abort. That order was overruled. This order did not originate from CoC. Repeat – this order did not originate from CoC. He complied, but did not originate.
This is an interesting read from back in May. I never heard any of this.
Classic, check out the
source... they also say
Bin Laden was not shot :eek:
well can you prove it? :rolleyes:
Yeh, I know. Cant be worse than the Inquirer - lol.
I happened upon it looking for something else and thought I'd throw it out there for your perusal/discussion. Interesting theory.
Now Intel already leaking to media facts surrounding how info obtained. Namely from enhanced interrogation efforts via GITMO prisoners.
bin Laden was in that compound only long after all GITMO prisoners were in GITMO. How did they learn that bin Laden had moved into a house in Pakistan? Mental telepathy is the only possible explanation.
Why does a Muslin god give GITMO prisoners a power that we do not have? The article only proves that god is on their side.
:lol:
and what the heck is it with the tags on this thread?
class loves infi, i love ug, merc luvs jill, moran, rip ug
I don't think you're taking this
seriously.
Wait, they got Bin Laden? When did this happen? :eek:
Wait, they got Bin Laden? When did this happen? :eek:
lol
bin Laden was in that compound only long after all GITMO prisoners were in GITMO.
Cite. We'll need records of a those who are currently in GITMO, were in GITMO, any and all visitor logs.
Additionally we will need to see the records of any and all new secret detainees and visitors.
Also the lease bin Laden signed and/or papers as to the purchase of said compound,
whatever U-Haul/Ryder truck rental agreement.
Furthermore, all correspondence between bin Laden and his subordinates.
Lastly, we require a lock of bin Laden's hair.
Actually, I just want the lock of his hair. Thats gotta be worth something, DNA and all.O.K, so the story on the street is that we got some info with some enhanced interrogation techniques that led to the capture of Bin Laden. This is being Heralded by the right wingers and supporters of torture as a success story. What I want to know is how much info has been given using torture techniques that is inaccurate and just plain wrong so that the torture would stop for the moment. I say they got lucky with this, and that if it were not for other collaborative and far more involved intel practices we would never have found the man. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. We just happened to be looking at the clock at the right time.
Thanks Joe. You would know far more than the rest of us.
Wait, they got Bin Laden? When did this happen?
Prisoners in GITMO telepathically transmitted that myth so that we would stop looking for bin Laden. Much easier to do when god is working for them. Unfortunately, you were not on their telepathic e-mail list.
Prisoners in GITMO telepathically transmitted that myth so that we would stop looking for bin Laden. Much easier to do when god is working for them. Unfortunately, you were not on their telepathic e-mail list.
Well somebody here could have courtesy copied me. Hmmph.
Well somebody here could have courtesy copied me.
classicman appears to be well connected.
Finally, we agree on something.
Thanks Joe. You would know far more than the rest of us.
I feel I should get something straight before we go on. My job has nothing to do with the events in Pakistan surrounding the death of Bin Laden. Anything I post on here is my opinion, nothing else. I just don't want to misrepresent myself, or by not saying anything at all let a misrepresentation take place.
Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification.
I appreciate your declaration, Joe.
Oy, tag-bandit, I'm watching you. :lol:
Still dead. Merry Christmas!
Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead!
That Hitler jerk hasn't moved in YEARS.
Let's shoot him again, just to make sure.
What do you do when you see Hitler stumbling around in your back yard?
Shoot him again.
What do you do when you see Hitler stumbling around in your back yard?
Shoot him again.
That's called a penny arcade. And it's always rigged. No matter how many times you shoot him, he keeps popping up again.
I'd invite .. let me see ... Big Sarge over. :D
SNL reports: Franco is too
Still dead! Woo Hoo ...
I knew Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was a friend of mine. And you, bin Laden, are no Jesus Christ. Don't even think of resurrecting yourself.
Ah, something from tw that isn't profoundly offensive! Keep up the good work.
Thanks to President Obama.
Obama doesn't kill terrorists.
Guns kill terrorists.
Double tap, 9mmPB, no? USN guy on the trigger.
I saw a bumper sticker yesterday that said:
Navy Seals - 1
Osama - 0
And I thought, well no, really it ought to be Navy Seals - 1, Osama - 2,819. Okay, the Navy Seals can have credit for the several hundred other top Al Qaeda deaths, too... but that still leaves Osama ahead. Shitty bumper sticker.