$6 Gas; what's your guess?
This thread is mostly for Americans (which includes, of course, Canadians and Mexicans) - Europeans will think gas/petrol at $6/gallon is cheap. I don't know about Australians.
How would $6/gallon affect you? Would it be a minor irritant, would it change your habits? Would you buy a bicycle, or trade your monster truck for a Chevy Volt?
http://www.cnbc.com/id/42683030?__source=otbrn|outbrainext20110422151708|&par=otbrn
Hastings sees gasoline having "no problem" getting to $6.50 a gallon over the summer after increased demand and storm disruptions come into play.
I think that gas over $4/gallon would reduce demand, and decrease the chance of getting to $6. High unemployment, combined with demand reduction due to more fuel efficient and electric vehicles, I predict the US average gas price will top out at no more than $5.25 per gallon in 2011 (with higher prices in California and Alaska). As we get farther above $5/gallon, more people will lose their jobs, further decreasing demand.
What's your guess?
I'd say you're in the ballpark there. Natural gas is going to get some play as well when things cross the $4 barrier.
I'm already driving smaller, but it is a choice not a necessity at this point. My commute would be wicked dangerous by bike so it won't play out that way. Maybe I'll stay home and write that novel.
This is an isolated and extreme case, and not an example of the general trend, but
Orlando gas station charges $5.69 a gallon
http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/22/news/economy/highest_gas_prices_in_the_nation/index.htm?hpt=T2
This is just one company taking advantage of out-of-town customers.
I would be very angry if I went to that gas station.
It will be harder for people to make it around here. Most of the decent paying jobs are in Denver. If we are paying 50 a day for the commute, it will cut income back quite a bit. Unemployed people will limit their searching to the nearby area and stay unemployed longer.
I'd be pretty screwed, my job is about 30miles away. I might demand to be allowed to work from home (it is possible, just not ideal). I have no useful public transport nearby or I would have been using it a long time ago.
I'm currently paying $1.35 to $1.49 ... per litre!
Multiplying by 4.5 produces $6 to $6.70 per gallon.
I live about 8km (5 miles) from work, which takes about a litre of fuel, allowing for traffic and such. Hence my commute costs about 1.40 each way in fuel, plus about 50 cents per day for the annual parking permit. Allowing for general expenses, it is probably about $5 per day for commuting.
Doing the same trip by bus would cost between six and seven dollars (per day), and take longer and be less convenient.
However, I would eventually like to move to a place that (a) I own and (b) is a bit more in the hills/countryside. I am limited in my choices because I want to keep my commuting distance down.
Even at this $6/gallon, Australians still drive. We just complain more. We drive because we have to.
$6 gas won't affect me a whole lot, unless it causes other prices to rise--like groceries. Cab fares will undoubtedly go up, but I rarely take those anymore.
I'm currently paying $1.35 to $1.49 ... per litre!
Multiplying by 4.5 produces $6 to $6.70 per gallon.
...
We have smaller gallons in the US - they only hold about 3.8 liters. $1.5 per liter = ~$5.70/US gallon. Still a lot.
We have smaller gallons in the US - they only hold about 3.8 liters. $1.5 per liter = ~$5.70/US gallon. Still a lot.
Thanks.
I just remembered, though, that those prices are for the 91 octane fuel (which is what they put on the big sign board because it is the cheapest). My Subaru wants 95 octane, which is about 10 cents per litre more. Which is 38 cents per US gallon, which gets us back to about $6.
Our gas is hovering right about $3.67, give or take. As in the last spike the independent business person will take it in the shorts first. We saw many a small trucking company close their doors and lay people off as the gas prices approached $4, many places are way above that now.
In the end, I imagine that like in Zen's case, we will just complain more and keep driving.
In the end, I imagine that like in Zen's case, we will just complain more and keep driving.
That's what people do here too.
But it's rare to live as far away from work as people do in America or Australia. 30 miles is a long distance commute - most people would move closer to their work than endure that daily.
In January 2011, for a sample postcode the average unleaded price was 129p/litre, the highest price was 136p and the cheapest price 124p.
Someone better at maths than me can work out what this is in $/ gallon :)
I commute 90 miles a day. There are no options for public transportation or even car-pooling. Even getting decent mileage it hurts the bottom line. And my bottom.
But what to do? We're at the mercy of whoever is getting fat off this and I join the ranks of 'complain and keep driving.' :(
I commute 90 miles a day. There are no options for public transportation or even car-pooling. Even getting decent mileage it hurts the bottom line. And my bottom.
But what to do? We're at the mercy of whoever is getting fat off this and I join the ranks of 'complain and keep driving.' :(
Or you could just move. 90 miles a day is insanity. I know- I used to do that myself years ago. And then I realized that by moving closer in to the city, sure, housing costs are higher, but with the many $hundreds of dollars per month saved on gas and car maintenance, it's a wash. And now I have a few more free hours in my day, instead of throwing that time away sitting in the car. My commute now is 2 miles. I go home for lunch every day, and on nice days, I walk to work. I will never ever go back to long-distance commuting. The hassle, expense, and hours of my life lost just aren't worth it IMO.
I've certainly considered moving, but that's an expense I can't really take on right now either.
Some changes are going on at my old job. I talked to my sis-in-law and her best friend yesterday, both fairly biggy-wiggy at the place, and mentioned I'd come back if certain changes occurred.
I was about 5 minutes from work back then. The pay raise was indeed worth it, when I left, even considering gas and wear and tear on the car. Now, it's not only way more expensive, it's soul-sucking.
It's been raining for weeks. Nothing but accidents on my commute, every day.
I am tired of the commute. Tired of the traffic. Tired of the city.
p.s. I exaggerated on my commute, it's more like 60 miles a day (was thinking minutes as miles, which would be true except for a large portion of the drive all traffic is going about about 20-30 miles per hour, then stopping, then starting...more wear and tear than a straight shot unencumbered by thousands of people and interminable construction.) Of course, I do drive other places too. ;)
Have you considered getting a donkey?
I'd like a donkey.
And I think I'd look good riding one.
You're an ass. n'yuk n'yuk.
HA! I can see me on a donkey (dunkey) on the interstate. They'd think I was as nutso as the woman they just found pushing an empty wheelchair down the interstate.
If I sat on the dunkey in robes and looked serene, they might think I'm the virgin mary.
Would I need a license plate? Insurance?
I should get vanity plates for an ass, I would think.
...They'd think I was as nutso as the woman they just found pushing an empty wheelchair down the interstate.
yeah, was that weird or what? Then the naked, disoriented woman they found wandering around in Xenia...she told them she'd left her two week old son in the car...somewhere...she couldn't remember where...ACK! Do you think she was roofied?
AND, she said it was some kind of red car...and it was totally blue.
I don't know what she was on, but that is unbelievable!
Does one typically get naked first, then disoriented, or is it the other way around?
I commute 90 miles a day. There are no options for public transportation or even car-pooling. Even getting decent mileage it hurts the bottom line. And my bottom.
But what to do? We're at the mercy of whoever is getting fat off this and I join the ranks of 'complain and keep driving.' :(
Or you could just move. 90 miles a day is insanity. I know- I used to do that myself years ago. And then I realized that by moving closer in to the city, sure, housing costs are higher, but with the many $hundreds of dollars per month saved on gas and car maintenance, it's a wash. And now I have a few more free hours in my day, instead of throwing that time away sitting in the car. My commute now is 2 miles. I go home for lunch every day, and on nice days, I walk to work. I will never ever go back to long-distance commuting. The hassle, expense, and hours of my life lost just aren't worth it IMO.
IM--
I used to commute about 80 miles... each way.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=San+Bernardino,+CA&daddr=Lawndale,+CA&hl=en&geocode=FblzCAId20wC-SnzuP3ifVPDgDGNwoeMeMZnKA%3BFQUUBQIdQhXy-CmH3-lyTrTCgDH2_GuZg68Oqg&mra=ls&sll=33.976445,-117.82125&sspn=1.277714,1.579285&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=9
Insanity is an understatement. When I moved to Seattle, I vowed that whichever I found first, a job or a place to live, I was going to put a pin in the map at that location, and draw a little circle around it and confine my search for the other endpoint to locations within that circle. My greatest radius (now, sadly, recently ended) was 17 miles, each way. And that felt LONG compared to the two previous commutes of under ten miles.
It's worth it to move one of those endpoints. Obviously it costs more to drive more. But it's not just more gas. It's greater wear on your car. It's more time spent at risk on the road. Most of all, it's more time spent fucking driving that you can't spend doing *anything* else, audiobooks notwithstanding. I would routinely spend two to three hours each way, each day. I'll never get those hours back. I have NEVER regretted changing that habit. My life improved when I stopped spending so much of it behind the wheel behind some idiot.
I am familiar with the conundrum you describe. I lived where I could afford the rent, and I worked where I got paid what I needed to live. This really was the case. But those parameters are changeable, albeit with difficulty. But for me it was totally worth it. I wish you the best of luck. Keep in mind the value of your limited hours; spend them wisely.
snip--
Does one typically get naked first, then disoriented, or is it the other way around?
I have on occasion gotten disoriented, usually clothed. But when I get naked I'm almost always focused.
I am familiar with the conundrum you describe. I lived where I could afford the rent, and I worked where I got paid what I needed to live. This really was the case. But those parameters are changeable, albeit with difficulty. But for me it was totally worth it. I wish you the best of luck. Keep in mind the value of your limited hours; spend them wisely.
Thanks BigV.
I'm really having a hard time with this. As things get more and more wacky at my job I think..what am I doing this for? It doesn't make me happy, but I don't know what would. I've done it all, what do I expect to find?
I'm very tired of all of it, and I have to figure out what to do about it. Already, in the back of my head, I see my family thinking I'm a failure. Somedays I just want to give up: it's just that now that feeling seems to coincide with the fact that it's hard to afford to even go to work now, all things considered.
Gas was 3.96 this morning. :(
Do you rent or own your abode?
If you rent, when is your lease up?
My lease is up whenever I want it to be, theoretically, but there's a lot more to it than that.
Also, there is nothing I want to do less than to live in or near this armpit of a city. For a while I looked into loft apartments, imagined me as a city mouse (huh, weird, that's from a title of a story I wrote when I was a kid "the city mouse who wanted to be a house mouse") but really...I hate this dirty and poor and crime-ridden hell hole.
When I talk about this, I don't 'cry' per se...but tears just fall out of my face. I am really truly miserable.
i found
this quite interesting. from the houston chronicle...
In a letter to the top Democrats and Republicans in Congress, Obama said the “unwarranted tax breaks for the oil and gas industry” should be eliminated and replaced with investments “in clean energy to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.”
“There is no silver bullet to address rising gas prices in the short term,” Obama said. But he added that slashing “these wasteful subsidies” for oil and gas producers would help in the long term.
then:
“Gas hitting four dollars per gallon seems to have finally caused Speaker Boehner to see the light on the insanity of providing subsidies to profit-soaked big oil companies,” Schumer said. “At a time when we have a record deficit, it makes no sense to keep rewarding oil companies for socking it to consumers at the pump. These subsidies are a relic of a time when oil was $17 per barrel and oil companies needed incentives to drill.”
...there is nothing I want to do less than to live in or near this armpit of a city...I hate this dirty and poor and crime-ridden hell hole.
When I talk about this, I don't 'cry' per se...but tears just fall out of my face. I am really truly miserable.
That's why rent is so reasonable.
Kettering is ok. I mean, let's face it, it
is Ohio, so just how good can it be? ;)
I feel your pain, though. The weather, the boredom, the boring weather...it suxxor here. If I had money I wouldn't buy a mansion here in Ohio, I'd buy a little cottage in Cape Cod.
the letter from the above story:
I wonder. We're just the medium people. We're not the big people or the small people. We should suck it up (siphon?) We are supposed to carry the weight. Well, my ass hurts.
I'll believe it to be addressed when I see it, because we. don't. matter.
IM i know what you're feeling. only kinda in reverse. i live in a nice neighborhood in a nice condo BUT i commute 45 to god knows how long to work where gunshots in the neighborhood behind the track don't even phase me anymore. i used to duck, now i turn and look to see who got shot! sad reality but true. maybe if we could get S123 back from sarah's estate we could put her to work protecting us and whoopin' da hood back inta shape yo!
My neighborhood is fine. I hate the town, of course, would rather live in the country. It's this CITY where you might as well ask to be shot or raped or mugged, or killed in a car accident, just trying to get to work to make a buck.
As I said, I'm still working on and waiting for some changes at my old job. Or, maybe things will get better here (since I am privy to a piece of information that NO ONE ELSE in the office knows about, except for the person who is applying elsewhere...enough said.)
It's just been a rough time. It will get better. I'm world weary, and I'm world weary in a mostly solo fashion, and I'm too old for this shit. :o
...It's this CITY where you might as well ask to be shot or raped or mugged, or killed in a car accident, just trying to get to work to make a buck...
but that's what makes it exciting!
I kid, I kid.
:comfort: It'll be okay, Infi. When you get off work, go have yourself a nice drink or two. Or four.
;)
I might. Thanks, you guys for caring about Whiny Infy. Means a lot to me, more than you could know. :blush:
MUAH! and lossa hugz!
remember: no matter how bad it gets, it could be worse. i said that everyday for 33 months. hell still do today when i feel down.
IM - keep repeating you yourself, "I do not live with my parents, I do not live with my parents."
I know other people's misfortune is no real mood improver, but pretend it is for a while.
And if yo9u keep repeating it you might go made and get nekkid and all that. Then you'll get your three hots and a cot inside a secure facility and won't have to worry any more. They'll even give you a nice comfy jacket.
Sorry things are grim again honey.
My thoughts are with you.
They're not like The Force or anything, but sometimes at night you can snuggle with them without guilt.
I have been trying to employ some cognitive therapy: I have a roof over my head, I have a healthy family unit (well, am part of one haven't produced one) and I am loved. I KNOW it could be worse. Just a rut I guess. It seemed it took 7 years for the other job rut to get to this point. Maybe I'm just trippin'
Thanks hon. :)
I'll snuggle with your thoughts anytime. ;)
Sorry to hear of your work rut infi. We can be work rut buddies?
Well we are up to $3.75 now. Still creeping up. I don't know about a national average of $6 but I bet we see something just under $5 by the time it's all done.
I was adding up my annual gas usage while driving home yesterday. Based on the previous 8 years, I use about 220 gallons of gasoline per year. So for me, a $3/gallon increase in the cost of gas is only about $12/week, but I feel sorry for the people whose circumstances result in higher gas use.
That's about right where I am too. I figure we use about 240 gallons a year.
Our big expense is heating the house, and that's natural gas. There isn't too much we can do to lower that expense. It would be nice to own an energy efficient house.
We keep our heat turned down fairly low. Last year I got an electric mattress pad with dual controls, which is very cheap to operate compared to heating the whole house. I also have an electric foot warmer under my desk for days like today when I'm working from home and it's cold (about 22° - I don't know about outside).
We keep our heat turned down fairly low. Last year I got an electric mattress pad with dual controls, which is very cheap to operate compared to heating the whole house. I also have an electric foot warmer under my desk for days like today when I'm working from home and it's cold (about 22° - I don't know about outside).
ISn't the electric mattress pad dangerous with the water bed? ;)
That's about right where I am too. I figure we use about 240 gallons a year.
Our big expense is heating the house, and that's natural gas. There isn't too much we can do to lower that expense. It would be nice to own an energy efficient house.
I wonder how much I use.
I will have to look at the bill. I support the gas for 5 vehicles in my family.
ISn't the electric mattress pad dangerous with the water bed? ;)
The water bed was too comfortable. I had to trade it for a bed of nails, which has much better conduction.
I wonder how much I use.
I will have to look at the bill. I support the gas for 5 vehicles in my family.
See we have something in common. I HAVE enough gas for five people.
See we have something in common. I HAVE enough gas for five people.
So heating your house must be almost free.
It comes with a cost, my friend, it comes with a cost.
Perhaps you need one of
these.
Only $19.99!
Wow. Exxonmobil posted record profits again. Imagine that.
Those poor paupers.
Just got an email from my commuting buddy who says gas just shot up to 4.15.
When I get fucked in the ass I like to enjoy it.
Wow. Exxonmobil posted record profits again. Imagine that.
BP had huge profits too. Even with the oil spill "clean-up" expenses.
Are the poor darlings still getting tax breaks?
Yep, 4.15 this morning. I guess I'll be walking home from work.
Mother flipping fuckers. I hope they choke on their single malt scotch and suffocate in their satin sheets. Somebody's getting rich. The rest of us are dying, here.
hang on IM, don't sit up straight yet!
from the
NYT
First-quarter profit rose to $4.55 billion, or $2.27 a share, from $1.84 billion, or 92 cents a share, a year earlier. Revenue rose 34 percent, to $46.7 billion.
Excluding $175 million in charges for job cuts, the company earned $2.36 a share, easily topping the $1.94 that analysts had expected, according to the average on Thomson Reuters.
The company’s downstream, or refining and marketing business, posted profits of $82 million in the quarter, down from $136 million a year earlier, but far better than the $333 million loss the previous quarter.
I know how I'll get home tonight! I'm going to stand at the ramp with a sign that reads "Will Marry For Gas Money."
I know how I'll get home tonight! I'm going to stand at the ramp with a sign that reads "Will Marry For Gas Money."
How about "be an internet concubine"? You'll be having sex virtually all the time.
How about "be an internet concubine"? You'll be having sex virtually all the time.
Because then some numnuts will be looking for my website while he's driving, and kill me.
Really, you need to think these things through. I don't go into this lightly. :p:
Here is a good bit....
http://reason.com/archives/2011/04/26/whither-gasoline-prices
Oh, and Tax Breaks are NOT subsidies.
Anyone ever compare the cost of a cup of Starbucks to what they charge for it? How about milk? Bought a bag of coffee today, use to be a pound, now it is 7 oz. For the same price....
hang on IM, don't sit up straight yet!
from the NYT
Revenues don't show how much it cost to run the company. Only one side of the balance sheet.
Profit includes both sides of the balance sheet.
Profit includes both sides of the balance sheet.
Bullshit. It is only one side. What are the expenditures? You don't do tax returns do you?
Here is a good bit....
http://reason.com/archives/2011/04/26/whither-gasoline-prices
Oh, and Tax Breaks are NOT subsidies.
Anyone ever compare the cost of a cup of Starbucks to what they charge for it? How about milk? Bought a bag of coffee today, use to be a pound, now it is 7 oz. For the same price....
Ahem.
What Does Subsidy Mean?
A benefit given by the government to groups or individuals usually in the form of a cash payment or tax reduction. The subsidy is usually given to remove some type of burden and is often considered to be in the interest of the public.
Politics play an important part in subsidization. In general, the left is more in favor of having subsidized industries, while the right feels that industry should stand on its own without public funds.
Investopedia explains Subsidy
There are many forms of subsidies given out by the government, including welfare payments, housing loans, student loans and farm subsidies. For example, if a domestic industry, like farming, is struggling to survive in a highly competitive international industry with low prices, a government may give cash subsidies to farms so that they can sell at the low market price but still achieve financial gain.
If a subsidy is given out, the government is said to subsidize that group/industry.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/subsidy.asp
(emphasis my own)
Distorted logic problem no. 345, sec. 8: Coffee does NOT equal petroleum even though they both are black.
Starbucks does NOT need to be subsidized in the public interest, much as you or I may enjoy a cuppa joe. In fact, my small town manages to survive without a single Starbucks establishment even on the distant mountain horizon. We do have quite a few gas stations, though.
My greatest threat to personal liberty at the moment is the price of gas. Which right now is $3.77/gallon at the local City Market. Answer me this, oh grasshopper: How come folks from major metro areas back East are paying $4.15 to our $3.77? It's not supply and demand. Cortez has a mere 10,000 in population and is about 50 miles from the nearest larger town - the vast metroplex of Durango, Colorado. So, what's up with your benevolent oil companies there, hmmmm?
the majority of my engineering field experience is in tank truck loading facilities and compressor stations. i know how much they paid for design and construction of projects done. be it grass roots or upgrades. here's a little tid bit. when a tank truck loads it's tanks to bring the fuel to the gas station it is temperature compensated for density so that when the truck takes on 1000 gallons, it takes on 1000 gallons whether it's 32 degrees outside or 100. they don't compensate for temperature at the pump when you fill your tank. little bit goes a looooong way. granted that would be on the gas station itself. so that could go either way for profit or loss. but still.
How come folks from major metro areas back East are paying $4.15 to our $3.77? It's not supply and demand. Cortez has a mere 10,000 in population and is about 50 miles from the nearest larger town - the vast metroplex of Durango, Colorado. So, what's up with your benevolent oil companies there, hmmmm?
All based on what your state taxes are and how far you are from the source.
the majority of my engineering field experience is in tank truck loading facilities and compressor stations. i know how much they paid for design and construction of projects done. be it grass roots or upgrades. here's a little tid bit. when a tank truck loads it's tanks to bring the fuel to the gas station it is temperature compensated for density so that when the truck takes on 1000 gallons, it takes on 1000 gallons whether it's 32 degrees outside or 100. they don't compensate for temperature at the pump when you fill your tank. little bit goes a looooong way. granted that would be on the gas station itself. so that could go either way for profit or loss. but still.
Is there or is there not an End of Year tax right off for truckers, taxi drivers, or other people who use their trucks and autos for business? Because I sure as hell get one.
Here is the rub. The Government loves their revenue. They love to collect taxes. They live for it. So on the one hand they give breaks to the oil companies to make them feel good and on the other tax the shit out of them. Ever hear of a Well Head Tax? They basically tax them at every exchange of goods and service. Everyone talks about how much money they made. Cool, how much tax did they pay? No one talks about that. I don't know if this is accurate but I did hear lately that they collect 8 cents per gallon in profit. WTF?!!? the rest go to profit for the middle men and taxes. Which is why I brought up the coffee issue. How much tax does a $5 cup of Starbucks cost that company? 8 cents? What is their overhead to make tap water mixed with ground coffee into a profit?
Bullshit. It is only one side. What are the expenditures? You don't do tax returns do you?
I think you had one too many drinks today if you dont know the difference between income and profit:
[INDENT]
[/INDENT]
I feel for Big Petroleum. I really do. Yesterday Exxon reported profits that amount to $4.93 million an hour on sales of nearly $53 million an hour. :eek:
And they had to pay taxes before they figured out their profits. Tisk, tisk.
As Urbane Guerrilla would say, "Put away your shot glass."
I think you had one too many drinks today if you dont know the difference between income and profit:
[INDENT][/INDENT]
:lol2:
I feel for Big Petroleum. I really do. Yesterday Exxon reported profits that amount to $4.93 million an hour on sales of nearly $53 million an hour. :eek:
And they had to pay taxes before they figured out their profits. Tisk, tisk.
And just think, Obama and this Administration shut down American Oil exploration in the Gulf, putting hundreds of thousands of people out of work and forcing them to begin to move the oil platforms to other parts of the world. Poor pitiful us.... Thank Obama.
word merc. word.
i have no idea about the end of year tax write off. i just designed and built the darned things.
With you bro. Not an attack on you. Just saying it is a big world out there with lots of moving parts and not a swinging dick on this Forum is in the know enough to be able to authenticate the big picture. We all get just bits of it and have to do the best we can with what we can gather on our own. I don't trust anyone who thinks they have all the answers, because I sure the hell do not.
oh i did NOT take that as an attack, i was just sayin and you are right....no one has the answers.
only OPEC :rolleyes:
And just think, Obama and this Administration shut down American Oil exploration in the Gulf, putting hundreds of thousands of people out of work and forcing them to begin to move the oil platforms to other parts of the world. Poor pitiful us.... Thank Obama.
Say, wasn't there a teensy little oil spill incident when that happened? I seem to remember a picture of a dead sea turtle or something. Weren't hundreds of thousands of people impacted by that? Nah, I must be imagining things again. :rolleyes:
And BTW, I'm I a swinging CHICK not dick. ;)
lol sam, but yeah, oil exploration has its downfalls only we as humans need it. the oil that is. it is what drives our economy unfortunately. just sayin. the cost of transportation of consumer goods dictates partly the cost charged to the consumer. (i'm a little brunk rigtht now so i ain't slammin ya) so in short, if oil were to come down in price then consumer products could or should come down in price. the city of houston just started lay offs today or yesterday. don't remember. either way, less cops (ok i can handle that one, sorry sarge) less collectors, less government workers. what does that equate? more people looking for jobs. more unemployment. worse economy. oil has GOT to do something or we are truly FUCKED.
double posting. am i the only one that sees this or am i ignorant?
Bullshit. It is only one side. What are the expenditures? You don't do tax returns do you?
Just saying it is a big world out there with lots of moving parts and not a swinging dick on this Forum is in the know enough to be able to authenticate the big picture.
Heed your own words.
lol sam, but yeah, oil exploration has its downfalls only we as humans need it. the oil that is. it is what drives our economy unfortunately. just sayin. the cost of transportation of consumer goods dictates partly the cost charged to the consumer. (i'm a little brunk rigtht now so i ain't slammin ya) so in short, if oil were to come down in price then consumer products could or should come down in price. the city of houston just started lay offs today or yesterday. don't remember. either way, less cops (ok i can handle that one, sorry sarge) less collectors, less government workers. what does that equate? more people looking for jobs. more unemployment. worse economy. oil has GOT to do something or we are truly FUCKED.
double posting. am i the only one that sees this or am i ignorant?
Not sure what you mean about about "oil (doing) something." Maybe I'M the ignorant one. If you're saying the petroleum companies should lower oil prices, I couldn't agree more.
Other than Merc, who must be fabulously wealthy, everyone here and most everyone in the US has been hard hit by the downturn in the economy and upturn in oil. Some sites I visit are calling the elephant in the national living room, "The Great Recession."
This "swinging chick" can only give you a mouse's eye view of things, but from what I read, there are many of us mice in the same position. Jobs in Cortez have tanked - even with the ever popular tourist season coming up. In addition, state cuts to the food stamp program (SNAP) have made life even harder if you are out of work and have a family - or even if you're just out of work.
Increases in gas costs will cause more people to stay at home and fewer tourist dollars flowing into Cortez. A disaster because this town pretty much lives and dies by the tourist.
Merc can lobby for Exxon et al all he pleases (he's GOT to own petroleum stock!), but the fact remains, higher gas prices are only going to make a bad economy worse. And THEN what will happen to Starbucks, eh? :eyebrow:
Oil is a resource that is getting harder and more expensive to locate, extract and process. Much of the "light, sweet crude" has been used up.
An American geologist, M. King Hubbert, predicted in
1956 that United States oil production would peak between 1965 and 1970 - and he was correct. The same technique has been used to predict that world oil production would peak somewhere around now. The peak doesn't mean that the world is out of oil - just that it becomes harder and harder (and more expensive) to extract the oil that's left in the ground.
Peak oil isn't a new idea. There's even a society dedicated to researching peak oil (see ASPO: a network of scientists and others, having an interest in determining the date and impact of the peak and decline of the world's production of oil and gas, due to resource constraints.
http://www.peakoil.net/).
We won't know if we've reached the peak until a few years after we've passed it. It's best to start preparing now.
Somehow the rest of the world survives on much higher oil prices.
Somehow the rest of the world survives on much higher oil prices.
Much of the rest of the world has more reasonable public transportation than we do. The rail system in Europe is outstanding.
Latin American countries possess large fleets of funky old buses which usually can get you to your destination unless you have a head-on with a farm cart.
I don't know about you Aussies except that you tend to have vast spaces to cover - just like we do. Can a person get by reasonably without a car in a smaller Australian town? So how DO you guys do it?
Re Peak Oil: I think most folks have at least heard of this concept. I am quite in agreement with you on that subject. We need to be doing more in regard to alternative energy resources. I hope the US wakes up to reality before lack of oil flushes us down the old poop shoot.
My Subaru wants 95 octane...
Don't cave in to your Subaru's demands, it's a slippery slope. The next thing you know you'll be changing the oil, putting new spark plugs in (probably wires too) and replacing tires when they get smooth.
You need to show that car who's boss.
Disclaimer: I am not an auto mechanic or Motor Vehicle Inspection official.As Sheik Ahmed Zaki Yamani, the Saudi oil minister during the 1970's, said, ''The Stone Age didn't end for lack of stone, and the oil age will end long before the world runs out of oil.''
We all get just bits of it and have to do the best we can with what we can gather on our own. I don't trust anyone who thinks they have all the answers, because I sure the hell do not.
I don't trust anyone who repeatedly posts while ignoring obvious facts.
Buy ten gallons of gas. How many of those ten gallons actually move the car? A little over one. Why burn well over 8 of every ten gallons as waste heat and noise? Because gasoline at $10 per gallon is that cheap. And because those who obstruct innovation do so to maximize personal profits or a political agenda. Do not use intelligence that requires an education and ... "did you see those numbers?" Most do not.
The 70 Hp/liter engine was ready for production in GM in 1975. Why was it not standard even in 2010 GM cars? Because oil has always been that ridiculously cheap even when people were embarrassingly worrying about $2 per gallon gasoline. And because "drill baby drill" (and other soundbytes) is easier for the most naive to understand. After all, Barbie told them, "Math is hard." So eyes glaze over.
The solutions always start by doing more with less. Always. But that is not what extremists want. Extremists would rather invent unjustified wars to get "our" oil rather than be educated. An educated person starts by noting cars that get no better gas mileage than 1960 cars. Even weigh less and still got no better mileage. Because oil has always been so ridiculously cheap.
When will the price of oil rise to reflect its real value? When major shortages finally exist. Grandkids will finally realize how dumb their grandparents were in 2011. How so many could be so manipulated by lies such as "drill baby drill" rather than facts that make productive and healthy societies - innovation. Education that would make Rush Limbaugh a "persona non grata".
Unfortunately too many hype lies and spin about “More Oil!” rather than deal with a reality. Near zero innovation for the past 30 years. GM is a benchmark trophy of that problem that Limbaugh, et al encourage. There is no shortage of oil. There is a shortage of innovation and too much "knowledge" provided by a political agenda.
Need we mention another trophy of that stupidity? Ethanol.
Bullshit. It is only one side. What are the expenditures? You don't do tax returns do you?
Revenue minus expenditures is profit.
Gas went up 30c here over the weekend, 50c since last Monday. So I'm thinking $6 gas by maybe Friday?
yay! (i hope)
“We have the slow bleed that is occurring now thanks to the massive drops in crude oil and slightly less impressive drops in gasoline last week in the world markets,” Kloza said. “If high water doesn’t knock out any refinery capacity, we could see gasoline drop another 20 to 40 cents per gallon or so, once plants are restored and fear is in the rear view mirror.”
from
here
and Sam, what i mean by oil doing something is the price of a barrel must come down. oil drives the economy. the oil companies are getting phat while we, the consumer are starving. i've had to go back to ramen noodles at work. why? because it costs me $20 round trip to drive to work and home. 5 days a week? $100. try that at $10 bucks an hour. it truly sucks. back in the day when i made $40 an hour i wouldn't have let it bother me so much. but when, now, after paying my bills i have no more than $30 to my name on payday......
gas has dropped here 6 cents a gallon over the weekend. do you think the analysts are correct with their prediction of a 50cent drop over the next 30 days??
GAWD i hope so. i can only imagine what it costs your city, or any for that matter, to operate their fleet in a month or let alone a week.
gas has dropped here 6 cents a gallon over the weekend. do you think the analysts are correct with their prediction of a 50cent drop over the next 30 days??
No. I believe they will trot out the usual excuses for not dropping the price after being all too willing to raise it. It's the summer driving season, demand is up, costs are now higher...etc etc etc ad nauseum.
If the price of a barrel of oil foes up so much as a nickel, the price of gas goes up a dime overnight. When the price of that same barrel of oil goes down a nickel, the price of gas either stays the same or only goes down a fraction of how much it went up. Fifty cents a gallon drop? I don't see it happening.
So apparently nowhere has variations like here? We gained over 50c in a week, then dropped 30c in two days......
We're paying $3.73 a gallon in my area
I filled up yesterday.
4.09/gal. Cost me 57.00 American.
That's a record for me.
$3.85 here this afternoon.
paid $3.71 near my townhome but saw it on I-45 at a chevron for $3.99 in the same day.
We just hit $4. or there abouts.
Anyone who thinks that the petrol companies are getting subsidies is a god damm fool. They are the same tax breaks all the other big companies get.
Subsidies are primarily in the form of royalty relief for off shore drilling (and some drilling on federal lands).
Until the 1990s, oil companies payed a royalty fee to drill in these areas and the fees generated at least $100 billion in revenue to the goverment over the years.
In the 90s, a policy was adopted to waive the royalty fees as an incentive to enourage drillng when the price of a barrel of oil was around $20. The waiver was tied to the price of oil so that if it rose signicantly, the waiver would no longer be available.
In the 2005 Energy Bill, the waiver of the royalty fees was extended but no longer tied to the price of oil, so that energy companies are still getting the waiver. It was never the intent to continue to waiver when a barrel of oil was at the current high price.
Yes, it is a subsidy.
Anyone who thinks that the petrol companies are getting subsidies is a god damm fool. They are the same tax breaks all the other big companies get.
OK, lets assume that is true for a moment. We'll start there and end them before moving on to the next category. Any suggestions? What other companies are getting them? GE comes to mind for some reason, but I think maybe that's related to taxes... Anyone?
Well, if the oil companies aren't getting subsidies, I guess they don't have to worry about having them taken away.
And they can just forget about the legislation.
Washington (CNN) -- Senate Democrats opened debate Wednesday on legislation to cut $21 billion in tax subsidies from big oil companies and use the money to reduce the federal debt -- a move designed to put Republicans on the defensive and capitalize on public anger over rising gas prices.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/05/11/oil.budget.deficits/index.html?hpt=Sbin
So, what are they meeting about?
And they can just forget about the legislation
Analysts believe, however, that Democrats will try to use the issue to their political advantage in both the run-up to the 2012 elections and in the ongoing fight to increase the amount of money the federal government is allowed to borrow before Washington defaults on its financial obligations.
GOP leaders argue, among other things, that it is unfair to single out a specific industry, regardless of how unpopular that industry may be.
...or how much they donate..
Like I said already. My reply to that argument is "This is just the beginning. We'll get to the other industries like farming, cell/fios/internet/banking/ect shit later."
On the other hand, no this will never happen. They've been playing this game for too many years. I wonder if they do this public politicking just to get their donors (read corporate masters) to cough up more cash.
I read the article. I was referring to the assertion that the oil companies don't get subsidies, for us god damm fools. ;)
I read the article. I was referring to the assertion that the oil companies don't get subsidies, for us god damm fools. ;)
I was moving on from that assertion - you gdf.
I found
THIS very interesting. Apparently the dems want an investigation into price fixing by the oil companies.
Good - lets start investigating everyone who charges more than the millionaires in congress think is fair. Next up is cell phone providers. I'm over $300 for 4 phones, internet and whatever. That's more than I pay for gas in a month... well it was. They are getting pretty close right now.
WTF?
Are you somehow compelled to pay for those items? Unplug!
Look at that, you've just figured out how to save $600 per month.
Good - lets start investigating everyone who charges more than the millionaires in congress think is fair. Next up is cell phone providers. I'm over $300 for 4 phones, internet and whatever. That's more than I pay for gas in a month... well it was. They are getting pretty close right now.
WTF?
Apples and oranges.
There is an appropriate role for regulatory bodies to investigate manipulation of prices and the role of speculators and index traders in oil futures markets. Such trading practices or futures markets do not exist in the cell phone industry.
second thoughts:
The DoJ and the FCC are investigating, appropriately IMO, the potential impact the AT&T merger with T-Mobile may have on the cell phone market. :)
hey, while we're bent over........
The Obama administration has floated a transportation authorization bill that would require the study and implementation of a plan to tax automobile drivers based on how many miles they drive.
oh, joy.
The White House, however, said the bill is only an early draft that was not formally circulated within the administration.
“This is not an administration proposal," White House spokeswoman Jennifer Psaki said. "This is not a bill supported by the administration. This was an early working draft proposal that was never formally circulated within the administration, does not taken into account the advice of the president’s senior advisers, economic team or Cabinet officials, and does not represent the views of the president.”
from
Here
i can't imagine being taxed by the mile. people like me and I.M. would get truly anal raped with no lube. or at least with a $120 barrel of west texas sweet crude.
plt--
don't you think you're already there? If you're driving so much, you're buying more fuel, and paying more in gas taxes. In my mind, this would be an effort to fund the expense of the investment in our roads with taxes that are paid by the people who use the roads. No driving, no wear and tear, no taxes. More driving, more wear and tear, more taxes. There's an effort to do that already with a tax on fuel. More efficient cars use less, and are taxed proportionally less, and vice versa. I think this would be another way to 'PAYGO', so to speak.
I believe it would have to be introduced with a corresponding reduction in the taxes on fuel, and NOT merely an additional tax.
Yeah, didn't look at it that way, however, i don't see them easing taxes fuel bought. Kinda like the sam houston tollway aka beltway 8 here in houston. They where supposed to do away with the toll booths when it was completed as per the write up for voting approval. It is such a cash cow that they will never do away with them. I'm not saying that a lower fuel tax would happen, i just think its unlikely.
plt--
don't you think you're already there? If you're driving so much, you're buying more fuel, and paying more in gas taxes. In my mind, this would be an effort to fund the expense of the investment in our roads with taxes that are paid by the people who use the roads. No driving, no wear and tear, no taxes. More driving, more wear and tear, more taxes. There's an effort to do that already with a tax on fuel. More efficient cars use less, and are taxed proportionally less, and vice versa. I think this would be another way to 'PAYGO', so to speak.
I believe it would have to be introduced with a corresponding reduction in the taxes on fuel, and NOT merely an additional tax.
On the surface, this seems fair. But let's look deeper, shall we?
Communities, societies, the people within, pay all sorts of taxes that for things that keep that community running.
For instance, I don't have kids in school. Does that mean I don't pay school taxes? No, it does not. And I think I SHOULD pay school taxes, being a part of a community. (This was just my handiest example, disclaimering being I want to see the youth of the society have a chance to succeed and good schools can do that.)
We pay taxes to keep police and fire services. I don't often use the police or fire, but I damn sure don't mind paying the taxes, as part of the community, for if I ever do need them, or family needs them, or a neighbor or a friend. Police use the roads. See what I'm getting at? It's all kind of intermingled.
What a funny country. There's a predominant attitude of: I got mine you get yours. I made a transition to try to get mine, or more of mine than I was getting, and I get a funny feeling that now I am penalized for daring to not work across the street.
And if I hear the old arguments...1) Well just MOVE or 2) other countries pay so much MORE...I might wail and gnash my teeth. Moving isn't a viable option in many cases. And I live here, where we have the public transportation options you can fit on the head of a pin, or on a pinhead. I could move into the city...THEN I'll get to use the police department a LOT.
Finally, do you really think that some of the folks who have finally found a job after being unemployed for so long can just run out and buy a hybrid? Easy to sit on the sideline and say "well, it would be BEST if you..." but none of that is helpful if the ideas aren't viable. In real life, not fantasy (this is how it should be) land.
addendum:
And paying taxes for my community isn't making billionaires out of ANYONE. ;)
I don't know what the rules are, but our grocery store offers rewards for buying stuff, where you get a slip of paper at checkout and you enter that code when you buy gas from Shell, and you get a discount. No idea how it's calculated, but we just buy our normal groceries at our normal store, and we get these coupons every couple of weeks.
Today's coupon was for 40 cents off a gallon at Shell. Not bad. Instead of $4.01, it was $3.61/gallon to fill the tank.
If you have Giant grocery stores where you are, it might be worth a look. With our small car, it only amounts to a savings of $3.50 or so a tank, but hey, free money.
I think the countries that have all the oil should just keep it and eat it and since we grow most of the food we will keep that and eat it. Who will be better off? The non driving food eaters or those that have oil? :eyebrow:
Do we produce enough oil to grow the food and get it to market?
Prices dropped back down to 3.68 this week, not sure why.
...2) other countries pay so much MORE...I might wail and gnash my teeth.
Actually we all (all countries) pay about the same amount of money for the same volume of gas. What is different is the amount that countries tax that gas as it is sold to the consumer, in the later case we pay the least.
http://www.economist.com/node/17101124I don't know what the rules are, but our grocery store offers rewards for buying stuff, where you get a slip of paper at checkout and you enter that code when you buy gas from Shell, and you get a discount. No idea how it's calculated, but we just buy our normal groceries at our normal store, and we get these coupons every couple of weeks.
Today's coupon was for 40 cents off a gallon at Shell. Not bad. Instead of $4.01, it was $3.61/gallon to fill the tank.
If you have Giant grocery stores where you are, it might be worth a look. With our small car, it only amounts to a savings of $3.50 or so a tank, but hey, free money.
here it's Kroger. you get 10 cents off for every $100 you spend in a month up to 35 gallons. if you spend a grand in a month you get the max of $1.00 off per gallon.
We have that too, but I don't use it. I guess I just love Exxon.
$3.83 this morning.
I'm thinking...well at least it's not $4.15. Which is exactly what they want you to think. I guess I should be all grateful.
$3.76 here today at the Chevron. We can get it 10 cents/gal off if we collect enough points at our local City Market (Kroger).
You all have cheap gas. I guess you don't have that special "city blend" less polluting stuff.
Never thought id be happy to see $3.66 but that's the cash price at the corner store this morning...
We have the Kroger too. I'm on the other side of town so almost any money I might save with my meager single girl purchases would be et up in gas getting to the Kroger.
I did register my Kroger card yesterday and I don't understand the points thing at all. I have none for this month but I must have bought something there last month. April fuel points...11. Does that get me anything?
well at least it's not $4.15. Which is exactly what they want you to think. I guess I should be all grateful.
Just went for a walk at lunch.
Gasoline in DC, RFN.
We have the Kroger too. I'm on the other side of town so almost any money I might save with my meager single girl purchases would be et up in gas getting to the Kroger.
I did register my Kroger card yesterday and I don't understand the points thing at all. I have none for this month but I must have bought something there last month. April fuel points...11. Does that get me anything?
not quite. 11 won't do anything. you need to aquire at least 100 to get 10 cents off per gallon. i'm not sure if it tiers or not. ie...200 = 20 cents and so forth. i'll look into it. i know that if you spend $1,000you get a buck off per gallon up to 35 gallons. so buy a grand worth of KY jelly and maybe the pump phucking won't hurt so bad! :blush: :D
eta:
Kroger Fuel Link click on your town.
Gas continues to decline in price here. I saw $3.61 yesterday at Race Trac.
not quite. 11 won't do anything. you need to aquire at least 100 to get 10 cents off per gallon. i'm not sure if it tiers or not. ie...200 = 20 cents and so forth.
Yeah, 200 points = 20 cents off per gallon at Kroger. The points disappear after a month so you have to use them coz they don't roll over. I got gas for 3.46/gal today using my .20 cents off/gal via Kroger.
$3.59 today. Still dropping. I like it. Time to buy a new truck.