Antidepressant round-up
What are you on now? What have you been on in the past? How's it working out for you?
I've taken Zoloft on a number of occasions and today I was gently told by a friend who knows about this sort of thing and me that I might want to go see my doc about getting beack on the program again.
I'm looking for a new kick though. Zoloft just hasn't worked lately.
Suggestions?
I've been on most psychoactive drugs in my life.
The ones I remember working best are Effexor and Wellbutrin.
Currently I'm on a combination of Zoloft and Trazodone. That's working very well for me, aside from a brief stint of fainting spells early on (potentially a side-effect of Trazodone).
My "diagnosis" is Bipolar I, so what works for me might not be reasonable for a more common depression.
Paxil, a wonder drug for my chronic anxiety illness.
I am on Wellbutrin and Abilify. Frankly I don't know if they improve my mood much, but I'm not stopping them to find out what exactly they are doing. The Abilify is giving me a very slight involuntary motion of the arms, so the doc just added a tiny dose of Cogentin to the mix, it is a side-effect suppressant for the Abilify.
Of all the antidepressants I have been on, Wellbutrin has settled best with me. The ssri's like Paxil and Prozac killed my sex drive and made me feel very flat.
I am also on Simvastatin for cholesterol, and I just read that it can cause memory issues, so I am wondering if my occasional foggy memory is because of the statin or if it is all the other stuff I am taking.
I remember paxil, prozac, zoloft...then somewhere in there was a wellbutrin add-in, which didn't last long. Currently Effexor XR 150 plus an occasional generic atavan for anxiety attacks. Current has been a few years now, and seems to still help. Sometimes others just "stopped working."
Sorry, I am one of those anti-antidepressant people. I think much can be done with CBT and good nutrition and exercise.
I do realize there are times when people need them. My sis is dealing with chronic pain and my mom. My sis doesn't like SSRI's either, but conceded that it was in the best interest of sanity and pain management. When you are in pain it is hard to deal with stress. I am happy to report they are all happy now. My mom is happy as a clam and my sis is doing well and happy mom is with her.
I only take trazodone to help me stay asleep, but it is an anti-depressant. It really doesn't stop the SAD tho, which comes on at the end of daylight saving time. I know that I need to eat better and start exercising to counteract that. Soon.
Maybe get the partial temporal lobe seizure thing ruled out first, just to be sure. People with seizures are also prone to depression, and I can tell you right now that being on low levels of anti-seizure meds (Trileptal, specifically) makes me feel freaking fantastic.
Sorry, I am one of those anti-antidepressant people. I think much can be done with CBT and good nutrition and exercise.
I do realize there are times when people need them.
I'm very anti-drug. About 10 years ago I was on a very intense drug regime. The only things that ended up helping were the things you mentioned.
Then I went about 6 years without them, and stayed pretty healthy with diet and exercise, practicing CBT techniques myself and going in for periodic CBT "check ups." But then my ability to cope was overwhelmed by stressors (3 deaths in the last year, 2 moves and job switches, marriage, etc.). I spent 10 days in the hospital this month to get things back on the rails.
If you are safe (i.e., are coping "okay" and not self-harming or suicidal) and don't have the therapy, nutrition and exercise situation pegged do that first.
Sometimes you just need drugs.
I hope you are doing better Perry.
Pinot Grigio. Or sometimes Jim Beam & Diet Coke. Beer's just too fattening.
Okay, seriously, I'm terrified of antidepression meds. Many years ago I was in one of my valleys and mentioned to hubby that maybe I ought to take something for it - he adamantly said *no way* and gave me some horror story about some guy he knew whose wife was crazier after she went on the meds than before, and how he believed you got to be dependent on the stuff and it messed up your brain. This from a guy who did his share of recreational chemicals, you know?
So I got scared off. I did take Wellbutrin for a week or so when I was quitting smoking - figured it'd kill 2 birds with 1 stone - and it made me so hyper I couldn't stand it. I was happy, sure, but felt like I'd drank 4 pots of coffee.
Actually coffee does work just about as well as anything else! The hard part is getting motivated enough to get my ass out of bed and brew some.
Now, I have no idea why I thought I needed my husband's *permission* to take medication, for heaven's sake. I'm seriously thinking about discussing it with my doctor. But I don't like my doctor, and we're still trying to figure out what I should take for blood pressure, and I'm not sure how well the two types of meds play together anyhow.
Truthfully I think I'm bipolar. I had kind of a manic episode last August and while I can see why some people actually *like* them, I found it extremely unsettling. Of course, it could just be my age and the hormone thing. Damn, we're so complicated.
I'm on 40mg Citalopram (Celexa?)
It's used as much for anxiety as depression, and I think this might be where it helps me.
It's made a HUGE difference to my life.
I no longer have a heightened fear of everything. I no longer automatically think about killing myself when something minor goes wrong. I have been able to deal with bills and creditors - I've even phoned my bank when I've been worried I'm about to go overdrawn, rather than bury my head in the sand.
I haven't thought that anyone hates me and is laughing about me behind my back for a couple of years now.
I no longer lie awake at night wanting to die and hating myself so intently that I am rigid with disgust.
I have tried to get CBT, but there is nowhere locally that has it on the NHS and I can't afford to pay.
I'm fixing the diet and exercise thing.
But if I'm on Citalopram for ever I don't care.
I'm still me - I still have ups and downs. I can feel joy and excitement and painful nostalgia - it's certainly not all flat and grey. But there is less desperation, hopelessness, distress.
I tried a few anti-depressants years ago; but didn't like them, and didn;t really treat them with enough respect (note to self: Seroxat is not a recreational drug! )
I am quite wary of anti-depressants on the whole. I think they are often prescribed to people who are not actually suffering from the kinds of depression that the drugs are meant to tackle. That's probably where a lot of the horror stories of people getting worse on meds come from. Some types of depression can be tackled with medication, some really shouldn't. Unfortunately many GPs have a tendency to view it as a simple depressed/not depressed issue and either assume drugs will help, or assume they won't, without actually establishing a real diagnosis of what kind of depression they are looking at or what causal factors might be at play. At the same time, the psychiatric professionals often seem siloed into their own area of expertise and push their own pet strategies almost regardless of depression type/cause.
If you have a bi-polar condition then medication is usually a very sensible route. CBT is great, but is unlikely to be able to tackle wild swings in brain chemistry.
What I do take are drugs that act on anxiety, rather than depression. I take hydroxizine, which is a combination anti-histimine and sedative. Because of the eczema, I get anxious, and because I get anxious the eczema gets worse and so forth. Even if my eczema is ok, if I have a bout of anxiety it will kick it off big style. The hydroxizine allows me to break that cycle when I am in it, and prevent it occurring at certain regular times (such as night time). It's far from perfect, but it helps. Unfortunately medicine hasn't really learned how to deal with the sensation of itching yet. They can block histimine production, but that really only answers a small part of the itch problem: not all itching is the result of histimine production. beyond that, anti-priuritics and sedatives can be helpful: but they all treat itching as essentially a mild form of pain. We now know, though only very recently, that itching is an entirely distinct process using entirely distinct receptors.
All they can really do right now is sedate, mildly anaesthetise and bring down inflammation.
For the rest i self-medicate with pot and coffee, and sci-fi :P
what is CBT?
eta - oh. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. (thanks, Google!)
I see a therapist but she's actually a cancer therapy specialist. She's helped me more than any other form of Rx/therapy combined. She's simply wonderful. I've learned so much from her - she's helped me! BUT, I went to many, many therapists who were of minimal to no help. It's important to keep pressing and looking for one that works for you.
The one thing cancer did do for me was introduce me to her. She's changed my life in many ways. :)
plus, the prozac. Gotta have the prozac. :)
Well, it might lift a little depression to know that every time I read CBT, my sick mind thinks of the other CBT first. Even when reviewing psych student essays at work.
Sometimes it is hard to be me. Is there a pill for that?
um...what is the other CBT?
Maybe get the partial temporal lobe seizure thing ruled out first, just to be sure. People with seizures are also prone to depression, and I can tell you right now that being on low levels of anti-seizure meds (Trileptal, specifically) makes me feel freaking fantastic.
My Dad gets super upbeat and talkative on his anti-seizure med.
I used to take Lexapro. I took a depression survey, while on it. IIRC, most people score an 8, people on Lexapro score a 14, I scored a 24. That's when I was switched to generic Prozac, with a kicker of folic acid (I think). I guess I feel good. Worst thing is that I look at something and think "I should do this", then I think "fuck it, Imma gonna play scramble on facebook". And I know I shouldn't be doing it.
Magnesium Malate is good for what ails you.
oh and reading some descriptions of the antidepressants you are taking, seems science has come a long way. I am glad they are working. Especially interesting are the anti anxiety meds. I am glad to know you have had such dramatic results SG.
My son who works on his anxiety in alternate fashion cannot take them, as he has a bad reaction to them. He thinks therapists are are a waste of time and has his own CBT workbooks to work through any anxiety, by changing the way his body wants to react to stress.
As long as there is focussed routine it works pretty well.
I eat very health consciously, exercise, take yoga, meditate, and have done CBT. I've never had suicidal thoughts until recently. My feeling about suicide is it's like walking out of a movie before it's over. When watching movies, I generally like to give the film/film maker the benefit of the doubt and wait to see how it ends, maybe they pull it together before the end. You don't know until then.
CBT has always been a problem for me since I have eyt to meet a therapist that wasn't either more fucked up than me, or nowhere near as smart as me and thus unable to realize that I am playing them. The worst is when I've seen therapists who make the mistake of confusing depression with stupidity. I don't really have much faith in CBT, after about 15 therapists over the past 25 years, I doubt I'll find one who will be helpful. Not to mention the cost.
My depression was diagnosed as Dysthymia. For me, what should take about five minutes, e.g. Go downstairs and get the board, measure it, cut it, and bring it back upstairs and nail it in place, takes about a half an hour or longer with a significant amount of time spent standing there thinking about having to go all the way downstairs and get the board... Sometimes I'll just get as far as going and getting the board and deciding I will measure it tomorrow.
I will load the washing machine and wash the clothes, then dry them. The dry clothes will then sit in the basket for weeks. If I do the laundry, then I probably won't be able to do anything else, like shave or sew a button on my shirt. It comes on so slowly that I don't even notice it until I find I am not returning important phone calls or emails, taking all day to get one sink of dishes washed, etc.
It's kind of fucked up.
Lately, and for the first time in my life, I have begun to feel that my family would be better off without me around. This is not the dominant thought, but it has begun to show up and that gives me concern. That and being unable to accomplish even the most insignificant tasks.
A friend with many years of sobriety in AA told me that his sponsor said to him "A lot of people will say 'I drink because my life is a mess' I suggest they flip the causality; there life is a mess because they drink."
So, for a long time I was feeling I'm depressed because of x,y,z in my life, and my friend asked me if it were possible that x,y,z were in my life because I was depressed.
In any case, I'm seeing my Doc first thing Monday am.
And thanks for your thoughts.
I am sorry this is happening to you foot. It is frustrating and maybe the frustration in it'self leads to a spiraling down. You seem to be funny and smart and you are needed by so many people. Here too! Keep your head up and just know there is light at the end of what seems like a long dark tunnel.
I am glad you are going to see your doctor on Monday. I know he will give you something to get you back on your feet. I hope he can prescribe something to elevate your mood a bit. When you are having such a bad time, I would not stand in anyones way by getting the medications that would help them feel better. It's just about what works for the individual.
Talking about mood elevators. I tried this product called, Sam-e once for joint pain but the "UP" jolt I got from it made me feel anxious. I could imagine that for someone who is down a mood enhancer like this might benefit. The word is that many people find it helps with their mood. I don't know.
Be well foot :comfort:
Lately, and for the first time in my life, I have begun to feel that my family would be better off without me around. This is not the dominant thought, but it has begun to show up and that gives me concern.
I get that, too. It's not an active thought to off myself, more like a thought that if I were to die in a car accident, it would be no big thing.
I think you have something here foot. Maybe you are having mini sezures all of the time. Make the doctor check it out!
I know that sounds bossy.
Symptoms
The symptoms felt by the person, and the signs observable by others, during seizures which begin in the temporal lobe depend upon the specific regions of the temporal lobe and neighboring brain areas affected by the seizure. The International Classification of Epileptic Seizures published in 1981 by the International League Against Epilepsy (ILAE) recognizes three types of seizures which persons with TLE may experience.[24]
Simple Partial Seizures (SPS) involve small areas of the temporal lobe such as the amygdala or the hippocampus. The term "simple" means that consciousness is not altered. In temporal lobe epilepsy SPS usually only cause sensations. These sensations may be mnestic such as déjà vu (a feeling of familiarity), jamais vu (a feeling of unfamiliarity), a specific single or set of memories, or amnesia. The sensations may be auditory such as a sound or tune, gustatory such as a taste, or olfactory such as a smell that is not physically present. Sensations can also be visual, involve feelings on the skin or in the internal organs. The latter feelings may seem to move over the body. Psychic sensations can occur such as an out-of-body feeling. Dysphoric or euphoric feelings, fear, anger, and other sensations can also occur during SPS. Often, it is hard for persons with SPS of TLE to describe the feeling. SPS are often called "auras" by lay persons who mistake them for a warning sign of a subsequent seizure. In fact, they are indeed seizures. Persons experiencing only SPS may not recognize what they are or seek medical advice about them. SPS may or may not progress to the seizure types listed below.
Truthfully I think I'm bipolar. I had kind of a manic episode last August and while I can see why some people actually *like* them, I found it extremely unsettling. Of course, it could just be my age and the hormone thing. Damn, we're so complicated.
Note: I'm not a doctor. This is not medical advice you should rely on. I'm just speaking from my pool of amateur knowledge and experience as a patient.
If you are bipolar, you don't want to take just an anti-depressant. That can send you into a serious and prolonged mania.
The textbook way to treat bipolar is to combine a mood stabilizer and antidepressant. The way I look at it is the mood stabilizer puts a cap on your highs and lows, then the antidepressant minimizes the lows.
foot - allow me to add my voice to the choir: I am VERY glad you are going to see your doc on Monday. Maybe print out what you wrote up there and hand it to him/her?
You sound more than dysthymic IMHO. can you wait until monday??
I am quite wary of anti-depressants on the whole. I think they are often prescribed to people who are not actually suffering from the kinds of depression that the drugs are meant to tackle. That's probably where a lot of the horror stories of people getting worse on meds come from.
This is a very common statement and I'm here to tell you that, for the people who truly don't need them, anti-depression meds do nothing.
The horror stories come from people who are given the wrong drug for their condition, i.e., someone given antidepressants, who really needs a mood stabilizer, is likely to get much worse.
Also, since everyone's brains are different, it often takes a little trial and error to find the right med and the right dosage. For a while I was having side effects at a higher dosage - so I took a lower amount and was fine. Then I went to an even lower dosage, and the anxiety illness came back.
I feel similar sometimes, foot. In all those ways. There are days I just can't seem to get a damn thing done. I've got this writing business, but I can't make myself do what I need to market myself, and if I do get a gig I put it off till I'm apologizing and making excuses, always getting it done just at the very tail end of their time allotment--when I used to be known as Ms. Quick Turnaround. I just finished one yesterday and it was like *torture* to do it - granted, it was about stocks & 401k's and such . . . but still!
And this house! I keep thinking that I'm unmotivated because I hate the house. But I don't hate it, it's just overwhelming. I can't keep up with housework. I stay home so I can keep on top of things and take care of my family and maybe do some home improvement stuff but it's just so HAAAAARD.
Then I feel terrible about myself because I never do a damn thing, I tell myself I'm so lazy, I'm a loser, my husband ought to just kick me out and find a better wife and mother for our kids. Worse yet sometimes I SAY that and get everybody upset, then I feel bad about myself for doing that too. Ugh.
I felt great about myself when I was in school, but it wasn't perfect because all I was doing was putting off the other stuff so I could focus on the one important thing in my life just then, the school stuff, and of course there was immediate feedback telling me I did good, yes I was actually good at something, and I figured that even though I was letting my family down it was only for a little while longer . . . but even then I felt terribly selfish.
Yeah, I need help. Last time I went to a therapist he was a complete blithering idiot. Hard to believe any of them aren't, at this point. We get counseling free through hubby's work, but that's where the idiot came from. You get what you pay for, eh?
@ UT: *nods* that sounds about right. Most of my experience with anti-depressants comes from well over a decade ago. I suspect that things have moved on since then. How depression is diagnosed, understanding of different causes and types, recognition of the complex brain chemistry involved and so forth has all progressed since the initial prozac/seroxat flurry.
Long time since I went and got a catch-all diagnosis of 'clinical depression'. I went looking at wiki pages to figure out what that condition Foot listed, and found something that sounds so very like my experience that it could easily fit as a diagnosis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyclothymiaWhat are you on now?
Weed and alcohol. And occasionally, sex. The weed and the alcohol work ok.
The sex works
real good.
Weed.
One of my favorite nurses at the hospital suggested I try weed. Not sure what to make of that.
It seems like you should have an observer or journal or something. It is so easy to lose yourself self-medicating.
Juniper, I have the same effin problem. My get up and go has got up and went. And I cant get it back. However, I just started cheating a little. When I need to get a lot done in a little time, I take a little bit of Adderall (left over from my stepson). Not a whole pill...way to many bad side effects - getting seriously irritable for one and totally losing my appetite for another. It is simply speed after all and speed was my preferred drug when I was in high school and college.
Pseudoephedrine works for me too, but with high blood pressure I can't take it anymore :(
One of my favorite nurses at the hospital suggested I try weed. Not sure what to make of that.
I don't do weed anymore but it was like ultra caffeine for me, I would get a tremendous amount of things done just not very focused, and then the let down on the back side was three or four days of zombie-like inability to motivate.
I haven't had the luxury of having four days where I could be completely non-functioning in decades.
Pseudoephedrine works for me too, but with high blood pressure I can't take it anymore :(
Yea, I get somewhat the same effect, which is why I am sol when I have a sinus headache at night. The pseudoephedrine in Advil Sinus is the only thing that kicks it.
...and then the let down on the back side was three or four days of zombie-like inability to motivate.
Shit dude...:(
Depression as choice: you knew some bozo would imply that.
Hint: if you can control it, subdue it, kick it, push it back, hide it, cajole it, humor it, play with it, languish in it, and stab it, then it is NOT clinical depression.
Big difference. Just sayin'.
Alternatively it means someone suffers varying degrees of depression and sometimes feel as if they are making a choice not to sink deeper, because in that instance the bout of depression they are feeling is a more manageable one.
I do somewhat subscribe to an element of choice in depression. But I also know that in my own case, I am not capable of making that choice until i get to a certain point with it. Usually, I have already been depressed for some time when I have an epiphany moment ("Ohhh...I'm depressed, that's what it is.") and this epiphany moment usually occurs in the early hours of the morning, having thoroughly harangued myself mentally, with my mind on fast and looping rails, for several hours. Usually this happens after several nights, or more rarely weeks, of the same shit.
Once I have that epiphany moment, everything clicks into place: it explains this about the last few days/weeks, and that. It explains where that tears at the back of my eyes and tight throat feeling is coming from. It explains why I haven;t been able to make myself work, or function properly in the world. Why I've been ignoring the phone, avoiding people, feeling old, feeling ill, feeling whatever negative shit I've been feeling. It explains why the pots have piled up in the kitchen and are discussing forming their own commune. It explains why I haven't been enjoying Pilau's walk, or seeing friends, or anything else that takes me out of my cocoon. It explains why I have ceased being kind to myself and am mentally raking over shit I long ago deemed settled. It explains why I can't interact within any of my family, without having some part of my mind preparing for future bereavement. And why the far future looks so dark.
Once I have realised it's depression, I am on the way up. I am suddenly capable of switching off the thought-rail. Yes it turns itself back on again, but I quickly spot it and turn it back off. I still don't want to go out, but I am more able to force myself through that. Work is still an effort, as is writing on an envelope and posting a letter, but I am usually able then to make myself do one or two small tasks. Ok, so posting back a form, and phoning the vet isn't exactly a day's work, but coming up, it feels like an achievement and another step back.
Over the years I seem to be able to spot that trend sooner. Before I sink to the real depths. Whether it's an illusion or not, I feel more able to intervene and exert control at certain points in the process. My memories of those depths scare the shit out of me, and I am kind of always vigilant for signs that I am losing a grip on my control, my optimism, my peace of mind. I have developed strategies. Things I tell myself, things I do. That allow me to feel more in control of it.
There is a price though. This is part of the reason I have chosen both a single, and a childless life. I am happy with that choice. I have learned to be happy more generally with my choices. A trick taught me both by some very shitty experiences and a very wise Mum.
Times when I've thought I could 'manage' my depression, and went off my meds: well, I'm lucky I'm not dead and can still hold a job.
I think this is why so many people seem to be on anti-depressents: for relief from the 'blues.' I have no problem with that. Getting through rough spots, not a problem. SSRIs don't turn you into a zombie, it seems a fair treatment.
I just get concerned with lackadaisical attitudes towards true clinical (chemical) depression by blues sufferers who pick themselves up by the bootstraps and ride off into the sunset like some western hero. It's great that they can do that: but it doesn't mean they're awful darn special and stronger than everyone else or something. ;)
With respect Shawnee: that is your experience of clinical depression. Not everybody's experience of clinical depression is the same. Not everybody with depression would be suicidal without meds.
Different people experience different kinds of depression and they are debilitated in different ways and to different extents. What you look at from a distance and see as 'blues' might be depression. What looks like depression from a distance, might be the blues.
Someone who has never experienced depression telling someone with clinical depression to pull themselves up by their bootstraps is annoying yes. It's not at all helpful, and shows an ignorance on their part as to what depression is. But it's not helpful either to mark out some competetive sliding scale that ranks 'proper' depressives as people who are completely incapacitated by depression if untreated, and anything else as a not really depression.
How do you know whether that person is truly depressed or just has the blues? You only get a fraction of what other people experience, and what you get is skewed by their own understanding of themselves, and their own ability to express.
OK, I get that. But I can only draw from my experience. And there are those who like to dabble in illness, who want something wrong with them, who want to say "Yabbut, look what I did...what YOU could not." That is what I'm addressing, and it's hardly an arguable point. The munchhausens always want to find something wrong, must have diagnosis...otherwise it just makes so little sense.
I think I'm superior because my depression is more than just the blues? Yeah, no. I really wouldn't choose this for my own worst enemy. I'd give anything to kick it, to not be 'me' but I can't.
I'd like to not be thoroughly hurt, once again, that my expressed opinion has met with, once again, the whole "you are out of order and misguided" thing. But that is also just a part of "me" I'd rather not live with, that over-sensitivity, but have to.
Right now I'm going to choose to try to get some work done, one foot in front of the other, keep the job, make everyone happy...everybody smile now. Here we go.
Please to forgive if my talk of depression in a depression thread was not correct.
Consider that maybe I read your post as a dig at me, since I felt able to bring myself back from the brink.
Apols :P
No no no, not at all at you. :(
In general, mostly, but there was a tone that offended me, but it wasn't you.
My apologies as well. I'm feeling a bit down. ;) <-----winky smilie seems out of place, but I wanted to convey some sort of irony.
Good good, glad we got that cleared up aheh. yeah. I'm a little tetchy at the moment. Or rather, slightly more easily riled than usual.
On a slight aside: I don't actually think of myself as a depressive now. It's something that swooshes into my life every so often, regardless seemingly of general happiness or circumstance, and then swooshes out again. There's always a kind of low lying darkness in there somewhere more generally. But I doubt that's different to most people. I get sad, too, obviously. But not to any greater extent than anybody else. Mostly I'm happy, as in I am reasonably satisfied with who I am, relatively forgiving of who I've been and pretty much comfortable with where I am heading.
One of the most powerful realisations I had about depression (as I experience it), was that it didn't in any way seem to correspond with periods of more general unhappiness. That is to say: I had a long period of being generally unhappy, and during that time I also experienced depression. I always kind of assumed the two went together, until i discovered some happiness and peace of mind and still had those same bouts of depression. Same with the sudden feelings of something almost euphoric. I'd categorised that as sheer relief that the whole thing (whatever thing it was at each time) was over. But I still get it from time to time. Like I've dropped speed or something, for hours, or days at a time. Sometimes for a very short spell, followed by a bit of a crash.
It's the bizarrest thing, to feel happiness at one level and depression at another, with both kind of coexisting for a while, at the start and end of a spell.
I remember the moment I realized I had clinical depression. I was driving down the street and I felt this heavy weight on my body. I didn't feel sad so much as I felt that nothing mattered. I could drive down the road or I could drive off the embankment and it didn't matter which choice I made.
I remember the moment I realized the drug was bringing me out of it. I was looking up at the sky and admiring the awesome gradient of blue it created. Every day a gradient with billions of colors no Photoshop will ever be able to reproduce. And I realized: I'm seeing colors again. I'm hearing birds again. I wasn't hearing them before.
Wow, yeah UT, I know what you mean. I remember thinking "one sharp pull to the steering wheel, just one..."
Also, I really get ya, Dana. Sometimes I swear I think I am all that, on top of the world, kiss my sweet bippy if you don't like me...but it doesn't last. Then again, neither does the depression. I HAVE learned, as you pointed to, to recognize that it WON'T last, and that does help me get through it.
This year I got an additional diagnosis of anxiety attacks, after some pretty hairy moments seemingly related to pms/perimenopause. I think it's more than that, though. I wonder if bipolar isn't a better diagnosis: but I don't experience extreme mania, just some freak out moments.
At any rate, I wish it weren't a part of me, but I guess I wouldn't be me if it weren't? Or something.
The doesn't matter thing I recognise from a few really bad bouts. But a long time ago. The ones that give me a slight chill to recall.
Y'know somebody in here or the other thread (not scouring to find out :P) said the Cellar was part of their self-therapy. Can't recall if it was a serious or flippant point being made; but I kind of concur to a degree. The last time I really felt I was totally losing control, was somewhere around the time I joined the Cellar. Ether just prior to or just after. I've had maybe two or three slides since then, but I seem to have become aware of them faster, and able to talk myself (and write) out of it quicker. I don't know to what extent that is due to more general lifestyle changes giving me more room to deal with things my own way, and to what extent it was having a place to express where I was at, but the Cellar definately played a part.
If only by providing a visible neon sign to myself that i was reacting to things and people differently.
Foot asked what worked or what we did to feel better. Although, I appreciate my approach there are those times when an individual needs medical intervention, as in the case of my sister, who I encouraged to go that route, even though she leans toward the natural approach too. Somethings are just too deep and prolonged to ignore or find relief in natural methods.
My methods would be a good supplement in those serious situations but are in no way, I feel the in all to the cure for serious depression. This is how my son deals with anxiety, but antidepressants don't work out for him. They make him feel suicidal. So this is what works here.
It was in no way, an implied attempt to tell anyone to pull up their boot straps. Least of all foot, who I hope is at the doctor right now getting that RX.
Back from doc with scrip. More later.
Hint: if you can control it, subdue it, kick it, push it back, hide it, cajole it, humor it, play with it, languish in it, and stab it, then it is NOT clinical depression.
What if ya just
live with it?
Back from doc with scrip.
Well, don't hide 'em, divide 'em!
What if ya just live with it?
:eyebrow:
Wow, I hadn't thought of that.
Oh yeah, I mentioned that living might not have been an option without help.
I thought about this the other day, my conversation with Dana, and I think what I failed to mention is that there is guilt involved with "why can't you just live with it" which is a lot like the bootstraps comments. Do you suppose that those who are finding a way to live with it haven't tried, time after time, to do it without meds, to just keep putting one foot in front of the other? Years of that guilt, that "what the fuck is wrong with my sorry ass" is what makes me touchy on the subject.
I also have genetics against me: a grandparent was most certainly bipolar, though I won't get into details. A wonderful man, really, but looking back on his behaviors, on his life...maybe an old-timey diagnosis would have helped him.
There is still the social stigma, the misunderstanding. For example, Grav, the joke to foot "don't hide 'em, divide 'em" while clever, belies ignorance about how modern anti-depressants work. I could send you half of mine, but all it will do is make you very sick for a while. If you get used to them, you'll just get very very sick upon withdrawal. But you can pick up my prescription, when you realize you're a day out of them and you're about to get very very ill.
You wouldn't ask for this, let alone impose this diagnosis on yourself, unless you
like to be sick for attention. I do not.
[/soapbox]
As a grade school teacher, Mrs. Z has seen a number of parents who wanted to put their kid on meds that didn't need them.
But more commonly she saw parents of kids who clearly needed the meds and didn't want to go that route. Her comment to them was, "If your kid had an infection and needed antibiotics, would you hesitate for even a minute to give them the drugs they needed? This should be no different."
Some listened. Some didn't.
And if you have diabetes, don't take drugs for it, that's "unnatural". Just live with it!
I really don't think it is possible to explain depression to someone who hasn't personally experienced it. I think a lot of people hear the beginning of the description and say "Oh yeah, I've had that feeling and I find if I just go out for a walk I feel better." or some such equivalent.
I imagine it would rather be like trying to explain to someone the feeling of an orgasm. It's funny to hear someone say they think they've had an orgasm. Sort of like saying, I think I just sneezed.
Sure, there are different types of depression and different degrees of severity and I've seen people who are medicated that probably don't need it, and vice versa.
I think the armchair therapist opinions about treatment, especially coming from the undepressed, are generally not welcomed.
Here might be a tip that you don't really suffer from depression: If you find yourself offering advice to a depressed person about how to "get better" then you probably don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
<--- Not directed at anyone in general.
But, as Dana pointed out, not everyone who is depressed is also suicidal.
Lots of people just live with it, because the guilt, shame, and sheer paralysis of depression won't let them get help. They feel like they aren't worthy of help. Getting help requires money to be spent that could be spent on other things, even if those other things are just their kid's video games. Getting help requires time that could be spent on other things, even if it's mostly other people's time that matters and not your own.
I've dealt with depression's spectrum all of my life, really, but it wasn't diagnosed till I was about 20 and spent a week in the mental hospital. They said I was depressed, but also gave me another "tag" -- Borderline Personality Disorder, which probably says volumes about me. I always thought BPD was just a clinical, fancy way of saying "Antisocial, Selfish Bitch."
I don't think that's true, though, I don't have BPD. Some of the stuff fits but I'm a nice person most of the time. At least I think so.
My dad was depressed too. He took anxiety meds for a long time. So was my mom, but she was one of those "deal with it" types. I come by it honestly.
But if you do find things that really help you "live with it" and maybe put off going onto the whole med thing for a while, isn't that good? Can't we be happy about that without everyone who is on meds getting offended?
What foot said.
I AM happy for people who can 'live with it' without meds. I also think it's not even the same thing as what some of us are talking about.
I can boo-hoo about feeling badly, and take my meds, and not kill myself. It's that simple. I'm sorry that those with severe depression don't understand those of you who can just 'live with it' but as I said, you're comparing apples and oranges. I'm sorry, but you just are. This is not to say (retracting a bit of what I said in an earlier post) that you don't have some sort of clinical depression, but what we are talking about you don't just 'live with it' or walk it off. To imply that it can be so seems a smug viewpoint to those of us who just can't walk it off.
Could it be possible too, then, that you are not experiencing what foot's OP was about? More just a chance to jump in about how you can live with it?
That might be what it feels like to some of us, true or not, it seems presumptuous and condescending.
This is all in lieu of saying "goody for you." Yes, that can be the reaction too.
Now I'm going to walk off my fibromyalgia. :lol: Do you have that? I don't. I don't think it exists. I could be wrong, but when that thread starts I doubt I'll pop in to tell everyone "tally-ho and a boo hoo hoo, I had that but I took a salt bath and a long walk."
Oh, and I might 'live with it' if I could spend days in bed, not leaving the house. I have to function in this society and not drive off a cliff. No choices there.
Unless one of all y'all wanna be a sugar daddy to a depressive mess.
Deciding to "live with it" implies that you recognize "it" exists. My comments are directed more at depression deniers, those who think having "it" is a choice, not those just deciding to live with "it".
I think for most depressed people, they do choose to live with it, because if they were in a position to do something about it, they probably wouldn't be depressed.
I chose to take action when I saw the early warning signs. I knew where this was headed and I wasn't willing to go there without a fight.
When I was living in London with Steve he believed he could help me because he'd had depression.
Self diagnosed and unmedicated. But he talked about it so confidently I had always believed him.
Turns out he was "cured" by having a couple of therapy sessions, and therefore thought that this was the only viable way of "curing" depression.
I started to have my suspicions when he advised me to just start by doing something I enjoy - that's he he started getting his life back again.
It was tricky to explain that I did not enjoy anything when I was at my worst. Not eating, drinking, reading, sleeping, talking, watching television, taking a shower etc etc. All far too ambitious to even attempt.
Of course once the medication started to kick in I did treat myself to things I had previously enjoyed. And I did get to the point where I started to take pleasure in them again. My meds have finally brought me back to where I should be - a thrill on a frosty morning, enjoying a bumpy train ride, fascinated by a mosiac glass candle holder. But I won't forget that there was a time when I couldn't summon the willpower to go the toilet even when I was in physical pain from needing to go. That's not a walk-it-off level of being.
Fair enough, Shawnee. I don't know what it's like inside your head, and you don't know what it's like in mine. I am sorry that I'm not qualified to empathize with you, because that was my intention; it certainly wasn't to come off as presumptuous and condescending. I guess maybe I really am just an antisocial selfish bitch. Too bad they don't have meds for that.
Whatever juniper. That was helpful.
Qualified and antisocial selfish bitch are your words. Maybe you want a label? Perhaps you have one. Perhaps you are depressed and are trying to overcome the guilt I spoke of by telling yourself and us how you walk out of it.
Maybe there are meds for you. You can hope, if that's what you desire so much. :right:
I mean seriously, do you want ME to diagnose your depression? No? Then get diagnosed and get some help, if you think it's there. Or wah wah around about not being depressed but being so...depressed. I don't get it, but I'm not in your head.
I guess we don't have to worry about ever finding time to meet in person, eh? Oh well. I had no idea you had such animosity toward me. Thanks for clearing that up.
I do not have animosity towards you. My points might be harsh but I have no ill feelings towards you.
My feeling about depression/not depression are pretty clear if you read all my posts in this thread. My feelings about you...certainly not ill will. I wonder if you do have depression. Think about it. You brought this up where you know someone like me will argue that you just can't get it if you don't really deal with it...that this isn't just the blues. Maybe I didn't read well enough myself. Do you have trouble with the happenings of what to others is everyday life? If so, I urge you to cast off the "my family just deals with it" motto that you have known all your life, and see if maybe there isn't some help. You remind me of me, to tell the truth.
I'm sorry about my harshness. I'm a harsh bitch sometimes, probably another defense mechanism.
I have NO ill feelings towards you. I would love to meet you someday. I'm a horrible person at times, but a horrible person with a nice side. Sorry juni.
Yes, you look much nicer after you've gone back to edit your post. Whatever.
What post did I edit? I only edit the one I am currently posting, if you're implying I changed any previous post to seem less harsh, I assure you I didn't, and that is akin to calling me a liar. You've mixed me up with posters who care that much what the general public thinks. I tried to meet you halfway.
Yeah well, I tried. Go suck an egg. Then cry about it, but don't blame it on me. Jesus.
edit: and fuck you. Set people up much? Get me all riled up so you can point at the bitch. Pathetic.
You edited #62. Maybe we were posting at the same time, but I saw a different version of it.
Anyway, I'm dropping it. I want to apologize profusely to Foot, whose thread I hijacked and made too much about me. It's funny--I always start out trying to empathize, and end up looking like an idiot. Foot, I really hope you're feeling better soon.
Bullshit, what did I edit?
Yeah, I always try to be a part of something I have experience with, but like you I am made the fool. Because people like you need a bad guy too badly. Thanks much. Your supposed 'empathy' is heartwarming. I could hug the world. Fucking nice.
NEW POST. NO EDITING.
Yes, each post is a thought in process, being honed then resubmitted. I try to keep it in a three minute timeline. I know my harshness, I try to temper it.
But I won't be bullied into the temperament you think I should exhibit towards you. You're being mean, and you know it.
You are depressed. Get help. It isn't my fault.
Oh, and I might 'live with it' if I could spend days in bed, not leaving the house. I have to function in this society and not drive off a cliff. No choices there.
Unless one of all y'all wanna be a sugar daddy to a depressive mess.
As I said: it's part of the reason I chose a single and childless life. depression was a damn sight harder to 'live with' when I had to interact with people regardless of my state of mind. I can, and do, have times when I just can't interact with people. Having a partner, and 9-5 work responsibilities is a nightmare at times like that.
The only responsibility I have that I cannot back out of/cancel/ignore, is Pilau's walk and food. Even so, from time to time, I dump him on Ma for a spell.
This is how I got/get through depression. It works for me. But living alone, and creating the perfect cocoon isn't necessarily the healithiest option for everybody. Like I say, it works for me. The impact of depression is much lessened by the lack of people/children/responsibilities who can be let down or hurt.
If I give vent to my obsessive nature, there's nobody angry or upset that I spent £1000 on pot and sci-fi. If I spend days just in my own head, nobody is upset or feels shut out. If I completely lose my grip on the house and my own well-being, stop doing the basics, become nocturnal, spend most of the day slumped on the sofa unable to muster the caring to wash. I'm not also carrying a weight of guilt about how this might be affecting somebody else. Except for Pilau. But at least I can palm him off with a biscuit and a belly rub.
A less dysfunctional approach might actually have been to take medication and learn to live in the world like other people do. But I have never seen a psychiatrist I trusted and most of my experience of drugs (and hospitals) has been profoundly unhelpful. Couple that with having basically been able to mould my life around what I feel able to do at any given time, and my way seems sensible to me.
So...where am I going with this? Yeah. If you need medication to live with depression then take medication. It's the sensible thing to do. If you need medication to be able to live in the way you want to live (ie function and hold down a job and have a chance at a career, a relationship that works and maybe raising children) then take medication, it's the sensible thing to do. And if not taking medication means your brain chemistry is such that you are incapacitated, or in danger of harming yourself, then take medication, it's the sensible thing to do.
It's kind of a silly argument really. Depression is different for different people and therefore requires different responses. What works for one person isn't necessarily going to work for the next. I'm glad I don't have to take medication in order not to feel suicidal, or completely flat. My strategies work because of that. They wouldn't work if I had the kind of depression that requires medical intervention.
The trouble is these things are very personal. The level of impact is very personal. And that can lead to a certain defensiveness. It is a strange thing to find oneself defending an illness/condition/state of mind. But these things are often wrapped up in our sense of self.
For example, Grav, the joke to foot "don't hide 'em, divide 'em" while clever, belies ignorance about how modern anti-depressants work. I could send you half of mine, but all it will do is make you very sick for a while. If you get used to them, you'll just get very very sick upon withdrawal. But you can pick up my prescription, when you realize you're a day out of them and you're about to get very very ill.
Your inability to read one sentence, and let it go belies ignorance about how humor works. Maybe
this'll help:
hu·mor - n.
1. The quality that makes something laughable or amusing; funniness: as in: could not see the humor of the situation.
2. That which is intended to induce laughter or amusement: a writer skilled at crafting humor.
3. The ability to perceive, enjoy, or express what is amusing, comical, incongruous, or absurd.
Who the fuck would actually ask someone he doesn't know for their unknown pills? Who the fuck would take pills from a stranger? How the fuck would I get 'em? You didn't display a lot of thought on this one did ya?
You wouldn't ask for this, let alone impose this diagnosis on yourself, unless you like to be sick for attention. I do not.
I
didn't ask for it. I
don't ask for it. But, I
do have to live with it. Every day. I had to live with it when I was so fucked up (and I don't mean
high)
nobody would have anything to do with me. I lived with it in my parents' house. I lived with it in my home. I lived with it when all I had was a box to live in. I lived with it in prison. Don't talk to me about "asking for it".
"unless you
like to be sick for attention." Kiss my ass for
that.
And just so you know, I don't take
any prescription medication, anti-depressants or otherwise.
I guess, according to Shaw, unless you're dead, dying, killing yourself, or eating pills like M&Ms, you just can't be depressed.
Either that, or it's a case of "Nobody's Depresseder Than Me".
I'm just going to make one more point and then I am out of here:
In this thread we have what appears to be a group of varyingly depressed people arguing over definitions of depression, each labouring under their own individual loads of baggage and association.
Unsurprisingly, this conversation has not gone well. It is worth all taking a step back at this point and considering that we of all people should be able to give the other a little more lee way than we might and a little less shit than we might under other circumstances and in other contexts.
No, what we have is a poster who got all shitty FOR NO REASON. They got called out for it. Self monitoring at its best.
Are you sure? It is an overplayed episode with the same characters. I am sure, I've seen this one before.
And there's the trifecta. Predictable. No professional opinion, then, Dr. Awesome? And Crassic, you joined in just for that? Well here I am to make sure the party of troublemakers and bitches is complete. :D And with that said...
I do not have experience of taking anti-depressants and I have enough respect for the posters here -all of them- not to wade in with the usual jokes and piss-taking, but I want to say this:
I think Dana makes the best point at this point. Everyone is fighting their own demon in their own way. The sword didn't work for Gandhi, Peaceful dialogue did not work for Boudiccea. And yet both are heroes and won their own battles. Let's support each other in whatever way each chooses to fight, whether that be denial, self-help, or medication. It's the end of January, the worst time for depression. I am glad we are all still here and functioning enough to fight it out.
Does anyone need a barf-bucket now? :lol:
And there's the trifecta. Predictable.
Yup - Whats predictable is one poster getting all shitty and then you backing her up. Good for you. She was an ass and was called out for it. Where is the problem? Oh that's right it was one of your own who got called out.
And Crassic, you joined in just for that?
Yup - called it like I saw it and still see it. Shaw got shitty with Juni for NO REASON. My point stands, monnie.
Well here I am to make sure the party of troublemakers and bitches is complete.
You defined yourselves correctly, on that we agree.
Everyone is fighting their own demon in their own way.
Yes we are, yet shitting on others for no reason is no excuse. She deserved it.
In this thread we have what appears to be a group of varyingly depressed people arguing over definitions of depression, each labouring under their own individual loads of baggage and association.
True dat.
Unsurprisingly, this conversation has not gone well.
:lol2:
I really was more interested in finding out about peoples experiences with their medications, what they took, whether it worked for them, how it helped or didn't, how long they might have been on them, did they stop or change meds, and why.
I wasn't asking if you thought meds were good or bad, what you thought of the nature of depression, whether it was a bona fide illness or personality/character flaw or what constituted real depression versus feeling blue.
I wasn't really looking for opinions about, validation of, or justification for taking meds.
I was really hoping to hear from people about their personal first hand experiences with meds.
Next time, I'll be more clear in my initial post.
snip--
I was really hoping to hear from people about their personal first hand experiences with meds.
Next time, I'll be more clear in my initial post.
You needn't worry.
[Quote=Char*Pntr]
Ok I will do! But I am worried, that as newbie here, I am taking your thread off topic.
You really haven't, but if you had, fuck it. Thread drift is so common, it's expected. After the OP, people will throw in their two cents, but that doesn't last too long unless it's something controversial. Then the thread may die, or take off on one or more tangents. A thread is like a toy sailboat, you can set it to sail, buy you can't steer it. It goes where it will.[/QUOTE]
Oh I know, I know.
If you love a thread let it go and if it comes back to you it was meant to be...
Rayon is the one of the most favored threads amongst professional embroiderers. It is a soft thread, available in great colors, and suitable for all forms of machine embroidery. Rayon thread holds up well with high-speed stitching without breaking or fraying and it also consistently performs well. It is easily available in many embroidery stores and in a wide range of solid and variegated colors, as well as in a "twist" thread composed of two or more solid colors twisted together to form a single strand. They are available in a light 50wt, standard 40 wt. and a thicker 30 wt.
I do not have experience of taking anti-depressants and I have enough respect for the posters here -all of them- not to wade in with the usual jokes and piss-taking, but I want to say this:
I think Dana makes the best point at this point. Everyone is fighting their own demon in their own way. The sword didn't work for Gandhi, Peaceful dialogue did not work for Boudiccea. And yet both are heroes and won their own battles. Let's support each other in whatever way each chooses to fight, whether that be denial, self-help, or medication. It's the end of January, the worst time for depression. I am glad we are all still here and functioning enough to fight it out.
I liked that. :thumb:
I was really hoping to hear from people about their personal first hand experiences with meds.
I thought that was pretty clear.
we all have our "thing" -
My ex husband was against anti-depressants because they
altered your mind and, thus, were MIND ALTERING CHEMICALS akin to cocaine, etc. He is as against anti-depressants as he is street drugs like meth. He's ALSO a CCDC III with a bachelors degree and works for the mental health system for the state. so - there's
that level of ignorance out there.
Juni---I am curious as to why you think your children deserve a video game more than they deserve a mom who feels good about herself?
But, as Dana pointed out, not everyone who is depressed is also suicidal.
Lots of people just live with it, because the guilt, shame, and sheer paralysis of depression won't let them get help. They feel like they aren't worthy of help. Getting help requires money to be spent that could be spent on other things, even if those other things are just their kid's video games. Getting help requires time that could be spent on other things, even if it's mostly other people's time that matters and not your own.
I was referring to this BTW. Just so we are clear.
If you are waiting to feel suicidal before getting help ---- well, that's just like waiting to have a heart attack before addressing your cholesterol problem, no?
ALSO - the martyr quotient here is HUGE. Just saying.
and classic - FFS, go kick a pillow or something, wouldja? You're getting to be soooo boring with the Shawnee hate. You're the proverbial old man yelling at Shaw to get off not only HIS OWN but everybody's lawn. Other posters are more than capable of taking care of/defending themselves. Juni is a professional writer for crissakes - she can lob her own volleys, eh? You're like a terrier with a bone, man! give it a rest!
The Anti-Social Network
By helping other people look happy, Facebook is making us sad.
There are countless ways to make yourself feel lousy. Here's one more, according to research out of Stanford: Assume you're alone in your unhappiness.
"Misery Has More Company Than People Think," a paper in the January issue of Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, draws on a series of studies examining how college students evaluate moods, both their own and those of their peers. Led by Alex Jordan, who at the time was a Ph.D. student in Stanford's psychology department, the researchers found that their subjects consistently underestimated how dejected others were–and likely wound up feeling more dejected as a result. Jordan got the idea for the inquiry after observing his friends' reactions to Facebook: He noticed that they seemed to feel particularly crummy about themselves after logging onto the site and scrolling through others' attractive photos, accomplished bios, and chipper status updates. "They were convinced that everyone else was leading a perfect life," he told me.
I wonder if the Cellar could be having the same effect on some people?
http://www.slate.com/id/2282620/If that's the case I reckon my facebook interaction make people feel a whole lot saner. I knew I had a purpose in life!
No, what we have is a poster who got all shitty FOR NO REASON. They got called out for it. Self monitoring at its best.
classic - FFS, go kick a pillow or something, wouldja?
Yeh
I'M the problem. :eyebrow: You gotta be outta your friggin mind. Read the posts between Juni, Grav and Shaw. Then read how Dani tried to whitewash it over. (IMO, out of kindness)
I called it like I saw it, and still see it. A poster got all shitty and got smacked down for it. Not like it's never been me on the shitty end.
Then the uncalled for "crassic" comment by monnie and now finally you to pick me out of all that to bitch about. lol - Grav said it best.
I guess, according to Shaw, unless you're dead, dying, killing yourself, or eating pills like M&Ms, you just can't be depressed.
Either that, or it's a case of "Nobody's Depresseder Than Me".
give it a rest!
I asked to be banned for a month because of this kind of bullshit. In case you haven't noticed, I haven't posted much since then. In other words - I'm already doing that. So go pick on, bitch at, or fuck with somebody else.
Then the uncalled for "crassic" comment by monnie
:eyebrow:
some things just come back to bite you in the [COLOR="LemonChiffon"]cr[/COLOR]ass[COLOR="LemonChiffon"]ic[/COLOR].
In case you haven't noticed, I haven't posted much since then. In other words - I'm already doing that. So go pick on, bitch at, or fuck with somebody else.
you haven't posted "much since then" but when you
do post it's this same old, same old, how mean someone is or how you applaud how one of your buddies smacked down one of your Blue Meanies (me, Shaw, monnie...whoever rubs you the wrong way that day or week or month)
It's soooooooooooooooooooo predictable and
BORING - so, yeah, I'll feel free to bitch about it.
How come you're allowed to come out of nowhere to make a nasty comment but I'm supposed to leave you alone? Double standard much, eh?
go fuck yourself classic. You're a tool.
Yeh I'M Read the posts between Juni, Grav and Shaw. Then read how Dani tried to whitewash it over. (IMO, out of kindness)
.
I didn't try to whitewash anything. I just pointd out what was bleeding obvious to me and should be fucking obvious to anybody with an ounce of common sense and understanding about depression: this had become a thread full of variously depressed people arguing about depression. One of the things that seemed pretty fucking clear from much that was posted by us all was that depressed people sometimes alienate themselves from friends and family by acting in an anti-social or overly touchy/aggressive manner. Seemed pretty clear to me given the tone of some of that discussion that this was what was going on here.
The person you are pointing fingers at explicitly referred to herself as 'too touchy' on this subject. Both she and I butted heads because we each misread the other and were too touchy and defensive about our respective positions. Not too much of a stretch to think that maybe this person is acting that way because they are depressed. Just as maybe someone else took offense quickly because they were depressed and so on and so on.
This seems a perfectly expected and understandable outcome to such a conversation. Not therefore unreasonable to quietly consider that maybe this disagreement is itself an expression of depression from various actors.
Ffs.
you haven't posted "much since then" but when you do post it's this same old, same old, how mean someone is or how you applaud how one of your buddies smacked down one of your Blue Meanies (me, Shaw, monnie...whoever rubs you the wrong way that day or week or month)
It's soooooooooooooooooooo predictable and BORING - so, yeah, I'll feel free to bitch about it.
How come you're allowed to come out of nowhere to make a nasty comment but I'm supposed to leave you alone? Double standard much, eh?
go fuck yourself classic. You're a tool.
Blue meanies? WTF is that?
No double standard at all. I expected nothing different from you. Your opinion of me has no validity in my life, nor mine in yours, I'm sure. Funny how you find it so easy to see only what you want to see regarding my posts this year. You conveniently missed reality though. Thats ok. See whatever you want.
I didn't try to whitewash anything.
This seems a perfectly expected and understandable outcome to such a conversation. Not therefore unreasonable to quietly consider that maybe this disagreement is itself an expression of depression from various actors.
Ffs.
Poor choice of words on my part - (whitewash) I even went so far as to say you did it out of kindness. Guess I read your post wrong.
Fair enough Classic. No harm no foul :P
I still think though, that regardless of how stuff plays out in other parts of the board, if there's one place a depressed dwellar should be able to expect that they might get cut a little slack and have people understand and not run a mile when they blow, it is in a thread full of depressed people.
A Blue Meanie - most famously the Baddies in Yellow Submarine (a movie, classic, a movie with the Beatles in it? The recording group?)
I use it here to refer to any group or individual that you, and only you, decide need a stick-poking by you. Stop being a ninny.
and I don't need my reality ok'd by you. You are a dick to Shawnee - you have been for quite some time now. Leave it alone already.
You come off looking like a desperate housewife with all this drama.
(and I know from drama!) :)
I think it is like a sore tooth for him, he just can't stop from poking it with his tongue.
Ewwwwwwww!
No wonder Shaw gets so mad.
Fair enough Classic. No harm no foul :P
I still think though, that regardless of how stuff plays out in other parts of the board, if there's one place a depressed dwellar should be able to expect that they might get cut a little slack and have people understand and not run a mile when they blow, it is in a thread full of depressed people.
I agree - That brings us back to her shitting on Juni FOR NO REASON. We've come full circle. The only difference is that some of you, not you specifically, give her extra slack and give some other posters zero. That's fine - their herd mentality is alive and well.
Only one or two more and the clique will be complete ... again. zzzzzzzzzzz
Bleurgh.
Nothing against you personally Classic. I just hate this pity party.
Grav pulled it the other day, for no reason I could ascertain. Lamp flounced out with the same poison pen.
Over the years I've heard it from people of all different beliefs and posting styles during different Cellar cycles. And aside from some simple personal animosity (some of which I did see as unfair) I have never been able to identify the factions and baying mobs which individuals have felt the need to take a stand against.
Why can't posters here understand that the vast majority of people here DO NOT have a vendetta? I've met Dana IRL. She is the last person I can imagine being part of a herd. If she posts you'd better believe it comes from her own opinions. Now me - I'm rarely confrontational, but I certainly don't think I'm a brown-noser r a bandwagon-jumper. I am going out of my comfort zone with this post because I'm tired of the whining.
If this place has really become so intolerable, with The Bitches ganging up on you, why are you still here? And no, that is not a suggestion to go, it's meant to question all the conspiracy theorists out there re why they are so wound up about something so tenuous.
edit: never mind,
It's time for the cellar piñata with antidepressants, anti anxiety, pot and whatever.
Not sure what I am hoping for.
But that's the thing - I defend my position because I am making a rather contentious post, but it's not that I feel I am being personally attacked. It's that I feel a blanket attack is being made against an imaginary coterie.
To venture an opinion "on the side" of any of these Dwellars is to be branded a member of the herd. Which does not and cannot lead to open opinions and posting styles. It's making reading posts unpleasant and making me second guess who I respond to, how and why.
Okay I'm done.
Not leaving, just backing off the subject because I'll end up getting shrill and that won't help my case.
Open opinions and posting styles? You jest. ;)
I am kidding, although I do try not to be too open. It's too easy to let a personal thought slip through the fingers, when irl, we may never have said such a thing.
( thread drift )
On the internet it is different trying to find your personal space boundaries and those of others.People either want drama, sensationalism, or peach and vanilla discourse.
I just hate this pity party.
Grav pulled it the other day, for no reason I could ascertain. Lamp flounced out with the same poison pen.
Nope - no pity party desired at all. just a response to a question. I am here less and less for the same reason that some others others have left. I just posted it. Others have not. They disappear without a thought by the rest.
She is the last person I can imagine being part of a herd.
Dana and I are fine - I did not mean to imply that she was anything of the sort. I am sure she knows that.
If this place has really become so intolerable, with The Bitches ganging up on you, why are you still here?
Hmm - curious that you used that phrase.
Why am I still here? been asking myself that for months. There were a lot of people here with whom I enjoyed interacting. Lately, not so much. I think my post count reflects that.
This is a really old argument, and one we're all tired of. Some people have things in common, including points of view and also perception of data, others do not. This creates a divide, and it's only natural for people to defend the position of the person who's views most closely resemble their own. It's a cultural notion, and one that human society is based on.
The Cellar, and every other internet community is nothing more than a reflection of society at large. The only difference is that it's less possible to avoid those people who's opinions differ because they're all mixed up in amongst the people with whom you happen to agree.
I do think there have been some pretty unfair things said during the course of this thread, and people have sunk to a level which is quite disgraceful, but it's definitely not Classic alone. It takes more than one person to have an argument, and if it's the same players all the time, then there's more than one person responsible.
No, what we have is a poster who got all shitty FOR NO REASON. They got called out for it. Self monitoring at its best.
Shawnee was pretty blunt about how she felt and maybe not very diplomatic, but I don't see it as getting shitty for no reason. I didn't see it as jumping all over Juniper. Juniper, in fact, totally jumped Shawnee's ass after taking her post way too personally.
So anyhoo, I'm on the beginning of my second week of celexa and I'm just starting to ramp up the dose and I can't say I feel much of anything yet apart from some very mild side effects. A slight uptick in energy/mood but nothing to write home about. I do feel a bit spacey at times, I wonder if that will dissipate. My buddy told me to expect 4-6 weeks before things really start rocking.
but but but, foot foot foot.... isn't 4-6 weeks so long that we'll be in Spring and everyone will feel better? And it seems a long time to me. Too long to wait for a drug to have an effect. I've never heard of anything so slow to act, plus isn't that a little too long to risk with depression?
But the two weeks you mentioned earlier seems reasonable and you're only at the start of the second week..... so here's hoping you start to feel a breakthrough in the next few days.
More like 8 weeks for me, but that may be more anxiety-related.
Very important to wean on and, if you need a change, to wean OFF the meds slowly.
It's not completely understood why it takes a long time. The brain chemistry is changed quickly, but it takes longer for moods and emotions and such to be affected.
4-6 weeks is about normal.
I started feeling better in two weeks and great in four.
hang in there foot. It will get better. :)
wow, that is a scarily long time!
I have to add my experience to the pot - my improvement was slow and steady - I think the full effect kicked in at about 3 months. Which is to say it was taking effect, but I didn't realise it for a while because the improvement was gradual.
First time I took anti-depressants I wanted to come off them after two weeks because they made no difference. It was only then my GP thought to tell me about how long it takes to have an effect...!
My new psychologist and psychiatrist both told me independently and without prompting that it is my work that makes me sick. They said that some people are lucky and find a box they fit well, others can compromise and be happy, while others can't fit in the box without cutting their toes off. They said I'm quite obviously in that last group, and I need to change my life.
Trying to figure out what to do with this is pretty stressful. On top of that, the medications I'm on now make me feel like shit physically.
I really think niche finding is critical for emotional health. I think I have the home part figured out, but work is always gonna be a problem.
Agreed. It's either niche finding or an unstoppable ability to rationalize, justify, and self-delude.
my work made me sick. (sicker?)
Know thyself: it's what's for dinner. :)
I've found my niche and now never want to move.
I just need to work on the financial side of things - it simply does not pay a living wage.
Sundae, around here someone with the type of experience you're about to gain can command a premium as a babysitter for families who need someone they can trust. You might even find that Tiger himself has a need for after-school care, and no doubt the parents would be thrilled to have someone who is already experienced with their particular son available for hire, at least for evenings out. I tried to hire the paraprofessionals in my son's class, but sadly they all had children of their own and were rarely available. Anyway, if not him, there are plenty of others. It's just a question of finding the right messageboards and advertising in the right places.
This thread is a year old now, and I'm not resurrecting it to get
Dwellars to post again their personal experiences.
Instead, I wonder if others feel that pharmaceutical companies
are feeding the flames of mental illness primarily for $ profit.
The article below bothers me... because I don't believe it.
I find it difficult to believe 12% of the population NEED to be
on prescription drugs, just to carry on with their lives.
Washington Post
David Brown
January18, 2012
Government survey finds that 5 percent of Americans suffer from a ‘serious mental illness’
About 20 percent of American adults suffer some sort of mental illness each year,
and about 5 percent experience a serious disorder that disrupts work, family or social life,
according to a government report released Thursday.<snip>
[ATTACH]36842[/ATTACH]
[COLOR="DarkRed"]Prescription medicine was the most common treatment, used by 12 percent of adults.[/COLOR]
Between 2002 and 2010, the percentage of adults getting outpatient counseling fell slightly (to 7 percent),
while the fraction of adults using a prescription drug went up.
<snip>
Daniel J. Carlat, a Massachusetts psychiatrist whose 2010 book
“Unhinged: The Trouble With Psychiatry” criticized the profession’s overreliance on prescription drugs,
agreed “that there is a kind of alarmist quality to these reports.”
The disorders found could include spider-phobia and staying upset
for a long time after arguing with one’s spouse.
<snip>
Your thoughts ????
Same as the ADD/ADHD. They change the threshold for diagnosis and then make millions prescribing medications to treat the "illness"
ETA - Not intended to be disrespectful to those with serious issues for whom the medications are necessary.
In fact this whole thing makes it worse for them in some ways.
Lamp, I've had that feeling about other illnesses, so I know what you're saying.
And because the only point of reference I have on the need for medication for mental illness is my long-term use of SSRIs for chronic depression, all I can say is that for me, they've kept me from driving off the proverbial cliff.
I've been to numerous counselors. Really, the time and money involved to "get well" is preposterous. Is taking medication the easy way out? Not for me, I don't have years and years and thousands upon thousands of dollars to go whine to someone who may or may not be able to help me define my issues that have precipitated my depression, in fact I know what a lot of those issues are, having lived this life myself.
Depression is a chemical imbalance. Are they overdiagnosing? Maybe. But I am the 12% and SSRIs have probably saved my life. ;)
Most people don't wear labels on their foreheads announcing that they are taking meds. So I only know of the friends who have told me that they are having troubles and are taking them. And they number in the neighborhood of 10% of my friends. So I think it's very possible that the numbers are true, based on my anecdotal evidence.
This thread is a year old now, and I'm not resurrecting it to get
Dwellars to post again their personal experiences.
Instead, I wonder if others feel that pharmaceutical companies
are feeding the flames of mental illness primarily for $ profit.
Here's how I read this statement.
"Despite having been shown otherwise by people's personal experiences, I insist on clinging desperately to my knee-jerk idiotic notion that there is a secret conspiracy among all Big Corporations to harm us for their own greedy ends. I have no proof of this, and I kind of know that others don't either, so I am requesting a WONDERING about a FEELING rather than actual hard evidence. I will show my bona fides by posting a dollar sign because we all understand it is a symbol of evil and backs up my bogus bullshit idea."
Perhaps, but I'm in agreement.
Here's how I read this statement.
"Despite having been shown otherwise by people's personal experiences,
I insist on clinging desperately to my knee-jerk idiotic notion that there is a secret conspiracy
among all Big Corporations to harm us for their own greedy ends.
I have no proof of this, and I kind of know that others don't either,
so I am requesting a WONDERING about a FEELING rather than actual hard evidence.
I will show my bona fides by posting a dollar sign because we all understand
it is a symbol of evil and backs up my bogus bullshit idea."
OK, fair enough for your reading of my intro...
But now please go to the link (Washington Post) and then give your reaction to the article
... use of statistics, methodology, interpretation, etc.
.
Most people do not lead healthy lives, they don't exercise and their diet is horrible, and a lot of those people suffer from depression as a result. Yes, the pharmaceutical industry found a cash cow.
Yeah, like "fibromyalgia." :eyebrow:
Careful what you poo-poo.But now please go to the link (Washington Post) and then give your reaction to the article
... use of statistics, methodology, interpretation, etc.
.
All information given in the story strongly asserts that your proposition is wrong, that mental illness is in fact an
actual problem, not something pfizer's board room calculated up, and that it is actually
undertreated.
Sorry.
But you know, it's just a *feeling* you have, so actual evidence has nothing to do with it! Screw the evidence, full steam ahead with your shitty narrative!
Every person I have known who has admitted to taking anti-depressants has been incapacitated by their condition before seeking help. Their illness has dicked around with their life - unable to work, or caused a relationship breakdown, or self-medicating to the point of a hospital visit.
Oh, I lie. A bulimic friend was prescribed Prozac back in the 90s.
It just made her hyper, so she came off it.
Ideally I would like to receive CBT therapy.
It's supposed to be the very best long term solution for many depressives.
But it is time and labour intensive and only available in a very few places (on the NHS I mean - I couldn't afford it privately).
I've had some other counselling but it just seemed rubbish to me. Sit and have a chat.
I quite liked alcohol counselling, I admit. I would sit and flagellate myself and the counsellor would tell me I had no reason to hate myself so much and instead I was a wonderful person. I used to walk out of there with a spring in my step. It wasn't effective long term re becoming teetotal. But it really helped for a while.
Perhaps I'm not depressed, I'm just narcissistic. Is there a pill for that?
I've found, over the years, that it's been immensely helpful in my struggle to be able to stand myself to make sure I blame myself hard and blame myself often. Also, I seek the counsel and input of those who are more than happy to also blame me hard and blame me often.
Nothing has helped me on the road to mental health more than they have. I thank them. Think of all the people who can be too ashamed to seek treatment because it means they're weak and lazy and piggish...leaving more meds available for me.
Luckily, I'm stronger than THOSE weak and lazy and piggish depressed and anxiety-disordered folks, who are too easily influenced by the really good and strong people on earth. :neutral:
UT, thanks for your perspective. :cool:
Sorry if I got angry, you pressed several of my hot buttons at the same time.
On a positive note.
THIS post still resonates with me.
I remember the moment I realized I had clinical depression. I was driving down the street and I felt this heavy weight on my body. I didn't feel sad so much as I felt that nothing mattered. I could drive down the road or I could drive off the embankment and it didn't matter which choice I made.
I remember the moment I realized the drug was bringing me out of it. I was looking up at the sky and admiring the awesome gradient of blue it created. Every day a gradient with billions of colors no Photoshop will ever be able to reproduce. And I realized: I'm seeing colors again. I'm hearing birds again. I wasn't hearing them before.
Most people do not lead healthy lives, they don't exercise and their diet is horrible, and a lot of those people suffer from depression as a result. Yes, the pharmaceutical industry found a cash cow.
To add to that there is this aspect of our culture and society which is at its core, sick and morally bankrupt yet telling us it is healthy and righteous. There are psychopaths running the country and big corporations, there is an incessant flow of misinformation and outright lies from people in authority and people who have asked for our trust. When you repeatedly are subject to someone "pissing on your shoes and telling you it's raining" learned helplessness is created in the pissed upon. No matter what I do, I cannot effect a change.
THAT is some depressing shit right there. We live in a culture that strips us of power while telling us we will become empowered when we buy whatever crap is being sold.
This is, of course, the same discussion as ever.
The EveryYou believes that only the EveryYou's issues are real and relevant. Otherwise it's just crying and whining, and being influenced...nay CONTROLLED by The Man because we're just not strong enough to know ourselves and we get led around like dogs on a leash because you know, we're just not that smart.
I can think of multiple instances of that shit right here in the Cellar, but I'm not really as mean as all that.
It's the Painted Pretty who always seem to be the meannest of them all.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go sit in a corner with drool hanging out of my mouth. I'm amazed I can hold a job.
I've found, over the years, that it's been immensely helpful in my struggle to be able to stand myself to make sure I blame myself hard and blame myself often. Also, I seek the counsel and input of those who are more than happy to also blame me hard and blame me often.
Nothing has helped me on the road to mental health more than they have. I thank them. Think of all the people who can be too ashamed to seek treatment because it means they're weak and lazy and piggish...leaving more meds available for me.
Luckily, I'm stronger than THOSE weak and lazy and piggish depressed and anxiety-disordered folks, who are too easily influenced by the really good and strong people on earth. :neutral:
Im not sure, but I think your ire is directed at my post.
You cannot discount the fact that our brain and body chemistry is directly affected by how we use it and what we eat. Yes, many do suffer from genetically determined afflictions that affect our ability to control our moods. I thought I was one of those people, until I started studying nutrition and then went on the zone diet. The 'twinkie' defense' actually had a point. I can directly control how my body and mind feel by what I eat and whether or not I exercise.
I've heard you can control how good you feel by snorting cocaine, too. Iit's amazing how what we put into our bodies affects how we feel. Like anti-depressant medications.
Aren't over-eating and lack of interest in health and exercise sometimes symptoms of depression? Or are they always causes masquerading as symptoms?
Is that a chicken-and-egg question?
In my case, Im pretty sure that my eating habits started the cycle.
I'm sorry that happened to you.
Even suffering depression myself, I do believe some people can lessen or even eradicate it with lifestyle changes.
Not everyone, and Pico is not saying that.
Not me - my first (undiagnosed) episode was when I was young and fit and drank rarely.
Look at how Clod has managed autism - autism! no one pretends that isn't a real condition - via diet.
Pico was able to turn around. That's good news, surely.
Hang on, I thought Pico was a dog.
Thank you, Sundae.
My point it is to get people to open their minds to the possibility that they might have more control over their depression than they realize.
We need an Antimanic round-down thread.
Having suffered through depression when I was eating a very healthy diet, getting plenty of exercise, meditating, and living a pretty wholesome life, and then at times when the pendulum has swung the other way and I was not taking care of myself, eating like crap, and staying up until all hours I was very productive and motivated.
In my case, it seems capricious when it strikes, just like my hayfever. Some years it's bad and other years I don't have it. Over 40 hayfever seasons I've never seen any change in symptoms that was repeatable.
I think depression can be caused by many factors simultaneously, and in any case exercising, eating well, and having a healthy lifestyle certainly can't be bad for you, they just might not be the panacea that we'd all hoped.
We need a born-again-jesus-freak and and a reformed-smokers-unite thread for some variety.
My point it is to get people to open their minds to the possibility that they might have more control over their depression than they realize.
And you know this because your advanced degree is in what.
We need a born-again-jesus-freak and and a reformed-smokers-unite thread for some variety.
Are you referring to JBK?
why, does he vanity search?
And you know this because your advanced degree is in what.
Thats why I shared my experience. To offer up another viewpoint. I realize that I am like a reformed smoker in that regard - my view is narrowed by what I have experienced. (and a bit bombastic to boot).
And you know this because your advanced degree is in what.
I guess that's one way to discourage expression of alternative view points.
I guess that's one way to discourage expression of alternative view points
Well, I didn't read this as an alternative point of view expressed about a personal experience, myself.
Especially in light of the fact that I'd just run across that "beware what you poo poo" thread I'd read just this morning.
Most people do not lead healthy lives, they don't exercise and their diet is horrible, and a lot of those people suffer from depression as a result. Yes, the pharmaceutical industry found a cash cow.
Now, I do think there are many ways of dealing with many illnesses. But do you not think that us 'most people' have tried various methods, that we do not know ourselves well enough, that this post was awfully preachy and condescending, and dare I say judgmental?
So it wasn't intended that way? OK. That's fair enough, but in the name of expression of alternative views, I expressed my alternative view, and pointed out in my own unique way how "most of" us have been beaten over the head with "get off your ass and fix it" mentality that keeps so many from getting help.
And much backpedaling ensued.
It may have came off preachy, but I'm pretty sure that if I looked, I could find data to back the fact that a lot of people have horrible eating habits in the United States. (Just look at the obesity numbers). And my contention is that horrible eating habits cause all kinds of problems, and a deterioration in mental health is one of them. Which, by the way, is why the pharmaceutical companies are making a killing. I backpedaled, because I realized I was coming off 'preachy', that at least two of you were taking my stance quite personally. Im sorry for that.
There is no one magic bullet/pill/cure for everyone.
Some may be able to deal with it to a degree ...
Others may need medication A, B, C or whatever.
I don't see why both sides cannot have some validity here.
ETA: Leaving again - just saw what happened the last time I posted in this thread ...
:bolt:
Cascella NG, Kryszak D, Bhatti B, et al. Prevalence of celiac disease and gluten sensitivity in the United States Clinical Antipsychotic Trials of Intervention Effectiveness. Schizophr Bull. 2011;37(1):94–100.
23% of institutionalized schizophrenics were found to have anti-gliadin antibodies (celiac disease,) without GI symptoms of any kind. When gluten was removed from their diet, their schizophrenic symptoms were markedly improved and in many cases eradicated. Sometimes "eating healthy" doesn't mean what you think it means. Yet no one thing applies to everyone--for example, I happen to know that when footfootfoot refers to eating healthy, he was specifically eating gluten-free at the time. For me, epileptic symptoms are only relieved when I am both gluten-free and on meds at the same time, not with either one alone. One way or the other, however, I am quite sure that the epidemic is real, not fabricated.
It's probably helpful not to think of it in terms of 'healthy' and 'unhealthy' diets.
For some people, a diet rich in one food type, and lacking in another will produce few negative effects. For others that same diet might be the difference between mental or physical wellbeing and mental or physical illness. or it might just be one component part of a bigger picture.
I have found there is a definate correlation between my diet and my state of mind. But...I don't know which is the cause and which the symptom.
What are you on now? What have you been on in the past? How's it working out for you?
I've taken Zoloft on a number of occasions and today I was gently told by a friend who knows about this sort of thing and me that I might want to go see my doc about getting beack on the program again.
I'm looking for a new kick though. Zoloft just hasn't worked lately.
Suggestions?
I've known several people who have slowly but surely developed resistance to antidepressants and such, Zoloft and Wellbutrin topping the list. One drug I advise people to consider with GREAT care as a replacement is Effexor, because that drug nearly killed 3 people I consider family. My mother recovered from the 4 months it took to wean her off Effexor after about a year of random throwing up, falling down, and migraine attacks. My sweetie is permanently brain-damaged due to a bad reaction, as is one of the coastal friends I miss most from my wild and crazy urban years. It seems like Effexor is either a magic bullet that actually works, or if it doesn't work it's the handbasket straight to Hell.
I took a drug called Serzone for a while, which I think was an SSRI. They thought I was bipolar, a type-2 rapid cycler, until the Serzone showed us that my "manic" phases were actually my baseline! Serzone evened out the downer crashes a lot...and then, after 15 years of use on 2 continents, 3 people died of liver failure in which Serzone was implicated and the same FDA that keeps Effexor on the market pulled it as "too dangerous". I was pretty geographically unstable at the time, so getting back on meds had to wait until I actually acquired a permanent residence.
At one point during my time here in Montana, I was given Paxil because it is chemically the most similar to Serzone.
HUGE MISTAKE in my case. Paxil made me really, really physically ill. I laid on the couch, waking up only to pee and take meds, for three days hoping to feel better before I realized it had been
three days and called someone for help. Paxil also ripped up my stomach so badly that I lost 12 pounds in 18 days because all I could keep down was water and pills. The next psych prescriber I saw, after the one I'd been working with moved out of town, says antidepressants for some reason just don't really work on anxiety. Go fig!
Shortly before moving out of Seattle in 2004, my insurance caught up with me just long enough to pay for half a dozen appointments with a reputable therapist & prescriber there. Her opinion was that based on past experience I should consider benzodiazepine tranquilizers--Klonopin, Ativan, Valium, Xanax, and the like. I'd taken lorazepam (Ativan) a few times with good results, but she chose to try me on diazepam (Valium) and the relationship I have with that medication is now old enough to vote and get married. I have never had to endure addiction or the gigantic health-paperwork mess it creates, making me one of a tiny percentage of very lucky people. There are 3 generations of alcoholics in my pedigree that I know of (since Mom and I disagree on who my bio-donor was, I have no health info on that side of my heritage), and those would be my mother, her mother, and
her mother. I quit drinking for fun when it quit being fun, and have always been grateful for my ability to put down a bottle of alcohol (or Valium) and just walk away. The only drugs I ever had addiction trouble with were nicotine and meth.
The thing I advise people nowadays is to find a provider that actually listens to them and do lots of research and discussion before taking any psychoactive drug. I have severe Generalized Anxiety Disorder with side orders of OCD (mild) and panic attacks (
not mild). If I had let those dorks in Tacoma-tose (The Coma of the Coast) put me on lithium when they suspected bipolar, it would have been a total train wreck.
Fun trivia fact: only 2 countries on Earth allow pharmaceutical companies to advertise directly to the public. America and New Zealand, and NZ may have changed that since I last checked. Last I did know, every other country on earth restricted the marketing of drugs to those capable of prescribing them. Every time I see an ad for some new drug to ease up a minor discomfort, the list of known and potential side effects is so much worse than what the drug's supposed to fix that I'd be scared as hell to take anything for a problem that doesn't massively affect my quality of life. Bad enough I have to have 3 allergy meds now to leave my house! I do not need, say, an anti-adult-acne drug that causes you to crap out your own spleen or something equally horrible.
And yes, 3 allergy meds. Any time I know I'm going to be anywhere near other people. The issues with my downstairs neighbor directly below (the awesome insane biker lives on the other side of the 4-plex in the ground level unit) pushed my allergy to artificial scent, probably actually an ingredient class called phthalates or some such Latin lunacy, from "annoying" to "your trachea might slam shut on you if you get stressed or run into anything you're allergic to at all." So now I have a pill at night, Flonase in the morning, and I have to carry prednisone and pseudoephedrine everywhere I go. Summers get tense, as one of my other major allergies is smoke. Anyone remember all the hoo-rah and holy-crap about the Montana fires of Y2K? I can still see the scarred, deforested mountainsides nearly 20 years later and I wasn't even here to see the burn.