Christmas excitement

We got our son an Airsoft rifle for Christmas. It shoots pea-sized plastic BBs, and looks realistic.

On Sunday, during the blizzard, he walked back from a friend's house with it slung over his shoulder. About two minutes after he got home, I saw odd lights out of the front window, which I identified as flashlight beams. I figured that the police got a report of a man walking the streets with a rifle, so I didn't wait for the cops to knock on the door, I went to go out and explain. When I opened the door I heard "LET ME SEE YOUR HANDS". I held both hands out and said calmly and loudly "My son got a BB gun for Christmas, it's not a real gun". The cop reponded with "COME ALL THE WAY OUTSIDE", which I did, "WHO ELSE IS IN THE HOUSE?". As he came to me, he had his handgun drawn. "My wife, my daughter, and my son". One cop stays with me (and the dog) outside and the other (the yeller) went into my house, still with his handgun out. I learned later that he asked my daughter, who was in our livingroom, "WHO ELSE IS IN THE HOUSE?", and she responded that her mother was asleep upstairs and her brother was home. My son heard the commotion, and brought the gun from the kitchen to the livingroom, thankfully holding it out in front of him, by the barrel, with the barrel pointed at the ceiling. The yelling cop brought him outside and yelled "PUT YOUR HANDS AGAINST THE WALL", which he did. The cop frisked him, then held the gun in his face and said "SEE THIS? THIS'LL GET YOU KILLED!". They took our names and left.

On one hand, I understand how the mistake was made, and we've instructed our son that the gun gets broken down and put in a duffel when it travels. And if there had been a home invasion, the cops behaved in a way that protected themselves and ensured that my family was not being threatened.

On the other hand, I'm upset that I had a gun pointed at me. A friend asked me if I'm going to sue, since several of my civil rights were broken.

By strange coincidence... here is a model complaint form for you :rolleyes:

But seriously... it is scary when there are flashlights and guns in the dark, and your words are only met with loud commands.

You hear about trigger happy cops and kids with BB guns ALL THE TIME! :facepalm: I am so glad the cop didn't shoot first.

Lamplighter;702066 wrote:

By strange coincidence... here is a model complaint form for you :rolleyes:

I'm not sure Spex has time to write a 40 page paper on police brutality.

You'll shoot your eye out!

I am not seeing what was the perceived crime? I mean, yeah, I get that it looks real and that your son was carrying it, but if it were real, what would have caused them to react so? He wasn't pointing it at anyone. Is it illegal to carry guns in your state?

kerosene;702079 wrote:

Is it illegal to carry guns in your state?

Bruce? Griff? Tony? Wolf?

I've never owned a real gun, so I've never had to know.

There are no state restrictions but I don't know about Spex's municipality. JR Spex may have scared the hell out of a paranoid neighbor due to the sniper look of the air-rifle and a boys natural tendency to "act". People carry real rifles here all the time but they don't look suspicious...

Looks real to me. I can see it freaking out the neighbors and cops. That's the world we live in, like it or not. YOU know your son and the gun are harmless. They do not. They should have chilled once you were explaining about the BB gun, but if I were your son I don't think I'd walk into a room of anxious cops STILL HOLDING the gun.

Isn't part of "gun safety" not scaring the shit out of people, and once you've scared said shit out of people you probably should drop the toy or risk making things worse? *shrug*

Sounds like a teaching moment to me.

Oh, it was.

Local govs can't make their own gun laws:

The state legislature has preempted the field of firearm regulation. No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of the Commonwealth.

This cop violated your fourth amendment rights, and created a distinctly unsafe situation in the presence of children, in the investigation of an activity that was legal. Carrying a toy rifle won't get you killed. Bad cops will get you killed. And by the way, what real crime was happening while this fucktard was in the process of terrorizing your family?

Gun lovers go on and on about how safe guns are, how kids should be taught how to respect guns. Spexx did the right thing after the fact. The cop was a blowhard. But I fail to see where all this Gun Lovin' Safety Crap is in this scenario. Kids carry assault rifles around all the time. I don't think Spexx lives next door to Dan'l Boone, as Griff might. You can't seriously expect cops to just assume it's a safe kid with a toy gun (like you know, we shouldn't check grandma at the airport and as soon as the terrorists realize we're not touching grannies they start putting bombs up granny's butt.)

Seems people uprise when their right to wave their penis (I mean gun) around is threatened, and pepper that uprise with noble talk about how they taught their kids gun safety so dagnabbit don't be messing with MY guns, but are unwilling to accept the fact that part of gun safety is NOT SCARING THE FUCK OUT OF PEOPLE AND USING COMMON SENSE.

A gun like that: who can tell the difference in a blizzard? :headshake

But yeah, sue for it. That'll learn 'em.

I'm pretty baffled by this whole thread, as Spexx has come down very clearly on the side of gun control in numerous different threads. I would never in a million years have guessed that you would give your son a BB gun for Christmas, Spexx. It seems like you handled the police encounter the best you could, and that the boy knows better from now on. But I think suing the cops would be unwarranted, personally. They treated you like criminals at first, it's true, which wasn't very nice. But in the end no one was wrongly arrested, and after all only a few cops responded to the call. The last time there was a report of a gun in my neighborhood, they called in an entire fucking SWAT team and shut down the whole street for 6 hours.

My ex boyfriend gave my son a bbgun rifle. It looks like a 22. We treat it like a 22.

I had a real 22 growing up. It wasn't anything to be walking around with rifles in the country then, and probably now, but cops seem like trigger happy fools these days.

I have my own bad cop story that doesn't involve guns,(fist fights at school) so I am not surprised the dude reacted out of emotion.

Clodfobble;702095 wrote:

I'm pretty baffled by this whole thread, as Spexx has come down very clearly on the side of gun control in numerous different threads. I would never in a million years have guessed that you would give your son a BB gun for Christmas, Spexx.

I hope that I've communicated that I have issues with handguns, not hunting rifles or shotguns. My son and his cousins and friends shoot each other with these - they sting but don't injure, and they MUST wear eye protection. I might have had some concern, had I been consulted, but my wife made the purchase without consultation.

Clodfobble;702095 wrote:

It seems like you handled the police encounter the best you could, and that the boy knows better from now on. But I think suing the cops would be unwarranted, personally. They treated you like criminals at first, it's true, which wasn't very nice. But in the end no one was wrongly arrested, and after all only a few cops responded to the call.

I have no plans to sue. As I said

if there had been a home invasion, the cops behaved in a way that protected themselves and ensured that my family was not being threatened.

It was just a very scary situation.

with hindsight and time

The cop reponded with "COME ALL THE WAY OUTSIDE",

(with calm) "Sir, there's no need to address me so harshly. I've explained the situation. I'll come out there and discuss it with you, but we're going to speak civilly so the situation doesn't escalate, because as I've explained, if I'm guessing why you're here, it's a toy gun."

One cop stays with me (and the dog) outside and the other (the yeller) went into my house, still with his handgun out.

"Officer, you have just entered my house without my permission." (to other cop watching me) "Please observe that I did not give permission."

The yelling cop brought him outside and yelled "PUT YOUR HANDS AGAINST THE WALL", which he did.

"Officer, you are acting irresponsibly. This is my house and no crimes have been committed. I am requesting that you leave the premises immediately."

Not to mention putting the gun to his head.

When cops use their position to teach moral authority, it really is an ugly thing to behold.

skysidhe;702107 wrote:

Not to mention putting the gun to his head.

Nonononono. They did NOT put a gun to his head. Yeller held the Airsoft gun vertically, close to his face. Not pointing at him, and not his real gun.

Undertoad;702105 wrote:

with hindsight and time

Yeah. I was concentrating on not inciting any violence. And not shitting my pants.

well, ok but your original post ....my mistake

Spexxvet;702112 wrote:

Yeah. I was concentrating on not inciting any violence. And not shitting my pants.

Good move, you did well in a bad situation. Not suing is also a good move, but I would have a talk with the chief of police. Tell him what happened, from your perspective, and suggest he talk with his officers about their procedures. If he get snotty, then a written letter of complaint to his boss would not be out of order. Nothing is more dangerous than a scared cop.

As other people have said (most succinctly UT) without hindsight or time, you did the best you could.

I don't live in a gun culture (although there are some places in this country where they exist despite being illegal) so I simply could not imagine this kind of scenario.
So perhaps my expected reaction of lying on the floor whimpering is not easily translatable.
But the whole idea of this scenario terrifies me.

Sadly, like others have said, your son has had a useful lesson pounded home in a very frightening way. Happy New year!

Sundae Girl wrote:

Sadly, like others have said, your son has had a useful lesson pounded home in a very frightening way. Happy New year!

Frightening, but memorable. Kid's gonna be a lot smarter from here on out.