In France they are civil unioning

Yeah I knew this would happen.

Religious right: "Gays can't get married!"
Gays: "But we want partnership rights!"
Politicians: "Let's just have civil unions which grant rights without marriage."
Heteros: "Holy shit, those civil union things look like a great option! None of the church bullshit? We love it!"
Religious right: "We didn't think of that...!"

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/16/world/europe/16france.html?src=twrhp

nytimes wrote:

Whatever their reasons, and they vary widely, French couples are increasingly shunning traditional marriages and opting instead for civil unions, to the point that there are now two civil unions for every three marriages.

Almost comic opera !

The law of unintended consequences must be gaulling to the churches.

Well...Frankly I am appalled at your punning.

That article failed to answer the most important question.

But it has proved remarkably well suited to France and its particularities about marriage, divorce, religion and taxes — and it can be dissolved with just a registered letter.

And the property????:eyebrow:

Dissolved with acid.

At present, homo and hetero couples are challenging the law by turning up to register their unions - marriage for same-sex couples and civil partnerships otherwise. It's all about drawing attentikon to the silliness of a law that allows gender to be an issue when the same is strictly prohibited in employment law (and many others).

U used to believe that things were reasonable in this country, but the more I've read, the more I realise that "separate but equal" is utterly wrong in law. And I don't believe any civilised country should be in thrall to anyone's magic book. Unless they're prepared to adopt the whole thing and outlaw cheeseburgers, prawn rings, and statues.

Most of the French gays and lesbians I've met want one thing : to be considered as normal citizens ie : no discrimination in employment, careers, renting/buying home.

And while you can help with laws, the first thing to change is the mind of Monsieur Durand (you would say Joe Average).

I'm hetero, 42 and a confirmed bachelor. Yet, during the interview with my current employer, they asked me about the fact that I'm a bachelor. I take it the subtitle was : Aren't you gay ?

Another point : At first, Gay/Lesbian associations were built to help fighting AIDS. Now, they have nearly achieved the status of a political party. They are certainly lobbying a lot for rights.

As a French comic put it years ago : All men are equal... and some are more equal than others.

GunMaster357;701056 wrote:

As a French comic put it years ago : All men are equal... and some are more equal than others.

George Orwell wrote the same in Animal Farm :)

GunMaster357 wrote:

Yet, during the interview with my current employer, they asked me about the fact that I'm a bachelor. I take it the subtitle was : Aren't you gay ?

It's so funny when a cultural difference catches me completely off-guard like this. I did the eyeball-equivalent of a double-take.

In the US, no interviewing employer would dare ask about anything of the sort, even in passing conversation outside of the real interview questions. They'd be sued faster than they could blink, because the subtext would be that the offer of employment depended on the answer.

But Clod, unless I have missed it completely, US employers are completely free
to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation.

That is, sexual orientation is not a protected class such as
race, color, national origin, religion, sex, family status, or disability.
Have I completely missed this ?

I did some Googling and found this link.

It's a list of federal laws regarding discrimination in employment.
The second section is a listing of Discriminatory Practices
This link has only a rather oblique mention of sexual orientation:

The Office of Personnel Management (OPM) has interpreted the prohibition of discrimination
based on conduct to include discrimination based on sexual orientation.

<snip>
Note: Many states and municipalities also have enacted protections against discrimination
and harassment based on sexual orientation, status as a parent, marital status and political affiliation.
For information, please contact the EEOC District Office nearest you.

"Conduct" sounds as though it applies only to current employees, not necessarily to prospective employees.

I'm interested in this because my assumption now is that with DADT repealed for the US military,
prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation will follow into the civilian population,
in the same way the military effectively lead the way on ending discrimination based on race.

They can also say, " Tell me about yourself".

"What is the worst thing you ever...etc etc" Employers give people many chances to shoot oneself in the foot" Discrimination at an interview would be very hard to prove. I think so anyway. The interviewers would have to be pretty blatant.

Oh absolutely, I'm not saying the discrimination doesn't happen. I'm just saying they have to be very careful to hide it. Even here in Texas, where the law says they can fire you for any reason or no reason at all, companies have a ton of (internal) rules for HR folks about what they can and can't say, not only to current and prospective employees, but to prospective new employers of ex-employees, who may call for general references and background checks. Like most corporate behavior, it's all about covering their ass so they don't get involved in a civil suit.

If every state in the Union would recognize and give the same rights to gays with a civil union the whole issue would dissolve or at least die down to a dull roar in this country.

IF...

If civil unions were the norm for everyone I think the churches would be happier in the long run.

Then, a "marriage" would not be a function of the state,
and the content of the ceremony would be in keeping with the faith of the individual and their religion.

France may be leading the way (again ?)

What has France lead the way in, in the past which is of historical significance to US?

Oh I dunno... didn't they have a revolution once? And separate Church from State?

They did chop off some heads on a regular basis for a while. I guess we could do that.

They fried potatoes, didn't they ?

We called them Freedom Fries for quite sometime, but I really don't think they are French.

How about kissing ?

[youtube]9V7zbWNznbs[/youtube]

Fetchez La Vache - :D

try this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8xtj9gFE90

Bri - great post !

I regret nothing! Put that on my stone! :)

Fantastic voice, but poor enunciation, I couldn't understand a word of it. ;)

Sundae Girl;701197 wrote:

Oh I dunno... didn't they have a revolution once? And separate Church from State?

We had already been there done that, so they weren't leading the way.

Also, in fairness, the French Revolution didn't exactly stick, ya know?

What France did, however, was provide/inspire some of the political theory and philosophy behind the American revolution, through the writings of French thinkers like Jean-Jacques Rousseau. In that respect, the French arguably 'led the way' in political philosophy. French philosphers and writers did much to create the cultural context for revolution in America and then later in France; and very nearly in Britain.

Brianna;701272 wrote:

I regret nothing! Put that on my stone! :)

But the denouement gives us the joy of new hope:

"Non! Rien de rien ...
"Non! Je ne regrette rien ...
"Car ma vie, car mes joies
"Aujourd'hui ça commence avec toi! !"