NASA Disovers New Lifeform

http://gizmodo.com/5704158/nasa-finds-new-life

NASA scientist Felisa Wolfe Simon and her team have found a bacteria whose DNA is completely alien to what we know today. Instead of using phosphorus, the bacteria uses arsenic for all its building blocks. All life on Earth is made of six components: carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus and sulfur. Every being, from the smallest amoeba to the largest whale, share the same life stream. Our DNA blocks are all the same.

The implications of this discovery are enormous to our understanding of life itself and the possibility of finding beings in other planets that don't have to be like planet Earth. Like NASA's Ed Weiler says: "The definition of life has just expanded. As we pursue our efforts to seek signs of life in the solar system, we have to think more broadly, more diversely and consider life as we do not know it."

Instead of using phosphorus, the bacteria uses arsenic for all its building blocks.

Arsenic being poison, it sounds like the "life" forms are not food. Throw them back... next.

As we pursue our efforts to seek signs of life in the solar system, we have to think more broadly, more diversely and consider life as we do not know it.

Yeah, if we don't find life forms, we'll expand the definition until we do.

Eureka, I've found it!
That's the rock I tripped over yesterday.
That was yesterday, today it's a lifeform.

I can see expanding the markers for initial searching so they don't overlook something, but don't they have a certain list of qualifications, that constitute a lifeform, a definition of a lifeform? Like it has to grow, or reproduce, or even eat, I mean it doesn't have to write sonatas, but something.

I don't have the biochemistry to completely understand this, but doesn't DNA stand for a big long word like dioxyribonucleic acid, or something like that? And isn't DNA made up of all these bases? The As and Cs and Ts and Gs? And isn't each "A" an actual specific chemical? (And so on.)

If we're switching chemicals here, so that the formula for each base pair is different, then how can they call it DNA? DNA has a specific chemical formula. wouldn't they have to make up a new name for it? Does the "DNA" in this bacteria have the same double helix shape?

Is that what they are saying, or are they saying a lifeform no longer needs DNA to qualify as such?

Maybe it's like carbon-based oils vs silicon-based oils.

Silicone oil works better in SillyPutty.

More detail. It does have double helix "DNA" (I'm not sure if the phosphorus-arsenic switch is enough to rename it). The phosphorus is replaced by arsenic in the DNA and other parts of the cells. The two elements are similar, but arsenic is less stable in these molecules. These bacteria have apparently overcome that instability.

[Not sure whether this is exactly what the NASA announcement was about, but it certainly seems related]

Lamplighter;697897 wrote:

Maybe it's like carbon-based oils vs silicon-based oils.

Silicone oil works better in SillyPutty.

I just had a billion dollar idea. Remember, you heard it here first. Just a novelty item, but a "putty" that you can stretch and press onto your computer screen to get an image...just like silly putty with newspaper. Then you can stretch it and make funny things. I want to silly grab that picture Flint has been posting. That would be great silly putty fodder!

Another good description.

Instead of using phosphorus, the bacteria uses arsenic for all its building blocks.

Why is it I keep running into references to my husband's ex? It just never ends!:mad2:

Fantastic idea Shaw, I want 2nd-market rights for printing onto balloons.

Lamplighter;697965 wrote:

Fantastic idea Shaw, I want 2nd-market rights for printing onto balloons.

Too bad we don't know any technical genius types. :rolleyes:

I don't know what 2nd market rights are, but you got it.

Now, you technical genius types, this can probably be done fairly easily. Get crackin'!

Interesting information heard on NPR this morning:

This wasn't an accidental discovery, she was looking for it. Felisa Wolfe Simon was fascinated by animals that make chemical substitutions (such as crustaceans substituting copper for iron to carry the oxygen in their bloodstream) and so she went to an arsenic-rich environment hoping to find this.

The arsenic doesn't completely replace all the phosphorus in the DNA of these bacteria. But I guess you could call it a proof of concept.

Humans do that with lead (not in our DNA AFAIK) if our diets are lacking in Iron or Calcium and Lead is available the body will take up lead in place of Iron or Calcium. Though with potentially serious negative consequences.

The bacteria were isolated from Mono Lake, CA.,
The lake is large and spectacular...
and well worth Googling via Web, Map(satellite) and Images.

Here is one image of the tufa:

They went looking for this stuff? Hmmm. Sounds familiar.....

Dr. Jeremy Stone: According to this, there'll be a super-colony of Andromeda over the entire southwest in...
Dr. Charles Dutton: Jeremy! These are biological *warfare* maps!
Dr. Jeremy Stone: Why, yes... so they are... uh... but... simulations, Charlie. Defensive... it's just a scenario.
Dr. Ruth Leavitt: That's not the POINT, for God's sake! Wildfire was built for germ warfare! Wildfire AND Scoop! And you knew, Stone! YOU KNEW IT!
Dr. Jeremy Stone: That's not true, Ruth! I learned about Scoop the same time you did!
Dr. Charles Dutton: They already have Andromeda programmed! The purpose of Scoop was to find new biological weapons in outer space, and then use Wildfire to develop them!
Dr. Ruth Leavitt: It STINKS, Stone!
Dr. Jeremy Stone: You're blowing your tops! We have no proof...
Dr. Charles Dutton: The MAP!
Dr. Jeremy Stone: DON'T BE AN ASS! That map only shows what Andromeda *could* do in the hands of an enemy!
Dr. Charles Dutton: Enemy? We did it to OURSELVES!

Kidding.;)

glatt;697891 wrote:

I don't have the biochemistry to completely understand this, but doesn't DNA stand for a big long word like dioxyribonucleic acid, or something like that? And isn't DNA made up of all these bases? The As and Cs and Ts and Gs? And isn't each "A" an actual specific chemical? (And so on.)

If we're switching chemicals here, so that the formula for each base pair is different, then how can they call it DNA? DNA has a specific chemical formula. wouldn't they have to make up a new name for it? Does the "DNA" in this bacteria have the same double helix shape?

What makes DNA is the sugar Deoxyribose. Now the nucleic acid (the A,T,G,C part) is attached to one end and the Phosphorus, or Arsenic in this case, is attached to the other.

So as long as Deoxyribose is there it is DNA helix or not.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/story/2012-07-07/arsenic-microbe/56098788/1

Discovery of an arsenic-friendly microbe refuted

The discovery of an arsenic-loving microbe that NASA said would rewrite biology textbooks and offered hope of life on other planets now looks like a case study in how science corrects its mistakes, researchers report.
...
In the new studies, one headed by Julia Vorholt of Switzerland's ETH Zurich university and the other by Rosemary Redfield of Canada's University of British Columbia, researchers tested the bug, provided by Wolfe-Simon and colleagues, and both found that while it can survive amid high arsenic concentrations, it needs some low level of phosphorus to grow. Further, they found the bug did not incorporate arsenic into its genetic chemistry.

The "new research shows that GFAJ-1 does not break the long-held rules of life," says the editorial statement by Science. The bacteria, "is likely adept at scavenging phosphate under harsh conditions, which would help to explain why it can grow even when arsenic is present within the cells," it says.

I find that sort of 'new life' in my teenager's bedrooms all the time...

I was thinking more of this movie.

Brigadier Gen. Russell Woodman: We'll seal off the tunnels, and then we burn the alien menace right the hell out of there.
Dr. Allison Reed: With what?
Brigadier Gen. Russell Woodman: With napalm. Lots and lots of napalm.
Ira Kane: Napalm? Why don't you just nuke 'em while you're at it?
Col. Flemming: What about nukes?
[Woodman starts thinking about it]
Governor Lewis: Pull your horns in there, boys! Nobody's dropping an H-bomb in the middle of my state!

[an alien bug is crawling inside Block's leg]
Dr. Allison Reed: What are you gonna do?
Dr. Paulson: We might have to amputate.
Harry Block: Whoa, Doc! Don't take the leg! Ira, don't let them take my leg.
Ira Kane: Isn't there anything else you can do? He thinks he's an athlete.
Nurse Tate: Doctor, look!
Dr. Paulson: It's headed for his testicles.
Harry Block: Take it! Take it! Take the leg!

Just think. Only 2 years ago they found a new life-form with an arsenic base and now he's the republican candidate for President.
Talk about progress!

:D

Boy, is your team in for a pounding.

Urbane Guerrilla;819583 wrote:

Boy, is your team in for a pounding.

Sheldon, I think UG just asked you out on a date.:D

Urbane Guerrilla;819583 wrote:

Boy, is your team in for a pounding.

orly?

Next thing, you'll be challenging me to wager ten thousand dollars!

richlevy;819590 wrote:

Sheldon, I think UG just asked you out on a date.:D

In his socially awkward Mitt kind of way, I think he did!

In for a penny, in for a pounding. ;-)

Old threads never die...

The Arizona Republic - 3/30/15

Twin fools NASA at brother's launch

Astronaut Scott Kelly's identical twin pulled a fast one on NASA
right before his brother blasted off on a one-year space station mission.

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NASA Administrator Charles Bolden told Kelly on Monday that he almost had a heart attack
when his brother showed up launch morning without his usual mustache.
Bolden says that's the only way he could tell the two apart.
...
Scott Kelly arrived at the International Space Station late last week following a launch from Kazakhstan.
He will remain on board until next March, as will a Russian cosmonaut.
It will be NASA's longest spaceflight ever.
...