whooping cough

9th baby in California dies from whooping cough. So sad. :(

I didn't know people still died of whooping cough. While I was at college (nearly 30 years ago) I lodged with a family whose children, including a baby girl, had the disease. It was painful to see them suffer but they all recovered well.

I had whooping cough, it's not fun. And I was immunized. My sister only had half of the immunizations and did not get it as badly as I did. But maybe that's because I was asthmatic and she wasn't. I remember it vividly though. You think you are about to suffocate and get scared to cough.

The problem as I see it, is that if they get through babyhood, most kids are likely to survive whooping cough, and the time when it's fatal is really before they are likely to have had their immunization, so people just don't see the point, but then in an unvaccinated community, the babies at risk become surrounded by not-so-much-at-risk older kids with whooping cough and so are exposed to it more than they would be in a vaccinated society. The vaccination process is more about society as a whole than individuals and that's an idea that isn't so popular in parenting these days.

monster wrote:

The vaccination process is more about society as a whole than individuals and that's an idea that isn't so popular in parenting these days.

Could you elaborate on this? I'm not sure I understand how you mean that.

The idea behind vaccination is that you do it to protect the entire hive, not just the individual bee. Some parents today are much more concerned about their personal bees than the health of the hive. Other parents see vaccination as being bad for the hive and their personal bees.

One could make an unpopular argument that to truly strengthen the hive, you'd have to do away with all medications, vaccines, etc. and then, if Darwin is right, the surviving members of the hive would have kick-ass, take-no-prisoners immune systems.

Or they'd all be dead.

That's what I think Monster is getting at.

right. And I'm not getting into any arguments about whether my perception of that position or that position itself is right or wrong.

Reasonable, but like all things isn't there some middle ground?
Should we vaccinate against some things and not others that say are not as fatal or harmful?

Wasn't looking to get into that monster - was curious - thats all.

Bordetella pertussis Strains
with Increased Toxin Production
Associated with Pertussis
Resurgence

In the 1990s, a resurgence of
pertussis was observed in a number of countries with highly
vaccinated populations, and pertussis has become the
most prevalent vaccine-preventable disease in industrialized
countries. We present evidence that in the Netherlands
the dramatic increase in pertussis is temporally associated
with the emergence of Bordetella pertussis strains carrying
a novel allele for the pertussis toxin promoter, which confers
increased pertussis toxin (Ptx) production. Epidemiologic
data suggest that these strains are more virulent in humans.
data suggest that these strains are more virulent in humans.
We discuss changes in the ecology of B. pertussis that may
have driven this adaptation. Our results underline the importance
of Ptx in transmission, suggest that vaccination may
select for increased virulence, and indicate ways to control
pertussis more effectively.

monster wrote:

The vaccination process is more about society as a whole than individuals and that's an idea that isn't so popular in parenting these days.

It's important to remember, however, that a major part of this theory is that adults must also be re-immunized every 10 years. By and large, it is the adults who were immunized as children and have now lost their immunity that are now getting the newborns sick, not the handful of children who have never been immunized. Most babies get it from their parents, and there's been a big push for at least 5 years now to get parents of newborns immunized against pertussis themselves while they're still there in the hospital.

Clodfobble is (as usual) right.

Two infants die in WA

Health officials urge pertussis vaccination for adults and teens to protect infants Whooping cough cases showing up around the state

OLYMPIA – While Washington’s overall number of reported whooping cough (pertussis) cases remains even with last year, we’re seeing more activity in the past few months. Most concerning is the number of kids under one year who are hospitalized or have died from the preventable disease.

This year at least 44 infants in our state have had whooping cough — 18 of them under three months of age have been hospitalized and two died. Most have become ill since the beginning of summer. Young children should get four doses of vaccine between two and 18 months of age — each dose provides more protection. Babies under two months are too young to get the pertussis vaccine, so it’s important for parents and others in close contact to “cocoon” babies by getting immunized themselves. “Immunizations aren’t just for kids,” said State Health Officer and pediatrician Dr. Maxine Hayes. “Whooping cough vaccine protects teens and adults, and by getting it they help protect infants who are too young to be vaccinated, but have the greatest risk of serious complications, including death.”

I like the image of "cocooning" the babies with immunized family members.

monster;683476 wrote:

right. And I'm not getting into any arguments about whether my perception of that position or that position itself is right or wrong.

Yes, you are :p:

nope, all y'all are doing just fine without me :)

Duration of immunity against pertussis after natural infection or vaccination.

Abstract

Despite decades of high vaccination coverage, pertussis has remained endemic and reemerged as a public health problem in many countries in the past 2 decades. Waning of vaccine-induced immunity has been cited as one of the reasons for the observed epidemiologic trend. A review of the published data on duration of immunity reveals estimates that infection-acquired immunity against pertussis disease wanes after 4-20 years and protective immunity after vaccination wanes after 4-12 years. Further research into the rate of waning of vaccine-acquired immunity will help determine the optimal timing and frequency of booster immunizations and their role in pertussis control.

The concept of immunity for life after infection is questionable at this point, some suggest because of the lack of re-exposure opportunities.

monster;683594 wrote:

nope, all y'all are doing just fine without me :)

Hit and run, eh?

It is very clearly acknowledged by all health professionals in Aus that whooping cough immunization does not last for life. Nor does natural immunity. Therefor, in order to be 'safe' from the disease, you must get a booster shot every 10 years or so. About the same as tetanus really.

What percentage of adults in Australia would you estimate keep up with their booster shots, Ali? I don't know a single adult who has received an immunization other than the flu shot in the last 10 years.

Misdiagnosis is significant in 8 of the California deaths according to the Mercury News.

There's a lot of info out there about it, so anyone with a newborn baby usually gets the whole family a shot or is at least encouraged to. I don't know what the percentage is, but I know it was mentioned to me numerous times during the course of my pregnancy with Max although I already knew about the need for booster shots, so it wasn't really an issue for us.

Most GP's will encourage the mother and father and other siblings (if they're old enough to warrant the need) to have a booster at the same time the baby gets their immunisation at 2 months. I know mine did and most other mothers I know of had the same offer.