Burn A Koran Day
This is really bugging me. I don't generally get too upset about political stuff--I keep up, I listen, I have opinions but don't usually find it worthwhile to bother expressing them. Yeah, I'm a wimp. But this one hit a nerve.
First off, I just flat-out on general principle think that burning books is seriously retarded. But that's just the literature-lover in me, I guess.
On a sentimental, nostalgic note, this reminds me of the Waltons episode in which the townsfolk got together to burn a bunch of books printed in German. John-Boy rescued one big book from the eager pastor's hands (John Ritter!) only to find that, to everyone's shock, it was the Bible! Lesson: if you destroy something an enemy holds dear, you risk destroying something you also might treasure. Or something like that.
See, in the old days, when they burned books they did it right--they gathered up copies from personal libraries. But in some backwater redneck town, who's gonna have a copy of the Koran? How are they going to GET enough of these books to have a respectable conflagration? Order a couple cases from Amazon? Does this not seem a bit illogical?
Support your Koran publisher! Special book-burning packages available, just ask for our Crazy Christian discount.
My oh, so conservative hubby says he's in favor of it. Says we're teaching them a lesson. We won't stand for this Islam invasion. After all, he says, they do it to us. And worse.
But, I said, can't we be . . . I dunno, better than that?
Screw that, he says. After we send all kinds of aid to their people in times of need, they still think we're the enemy.
Well yeah, but we're doing what is right. Helping.
I wanted to say: I'd rather die doing what is right than live knowing I'd done something ethically wrong to protect myself. But I'm nowhere near that good. I'm certainly no Mother Theresa.
But you know, that's not really the point. The point is, if you're gonna have a protest, do it right. Don't support your enemies in the process.
Burning a Koran won't serve anything aside from making Saudi Arabia richer with all these nice books we'll have to purchase to build this nice little "autodafé".
They don't want help... Stop sending it.
You're absolutely right on every count, Juniper. :thumb:
Aw let it out, otherwise you'll get heartburn and ulcers. :haha:
To me, it just shows how silly religion is.
I hate you because your magic book is different than my magic book.
So I'ma gonna burn it. Serves you right.
Ridiculous.
And I wish that the Muslims could realise that burning things means nothing.
And Christians could get over it too.
It's like the practice of burning or hanging people in effigy.
If your religion really is the one true faith, then burning a bit of writing means nothing. If you are a country with great power and weaponry, burning a flag means nothing.
Anti-Christian is not anti-American. Otherwise I'm anti-American, being an atheist.
Pro-Islam is not pro-terrorist - I live with churchgoing Catholics but I don't support paedophiles or the "real" IRA (or whoever the murderers were who left
a pipe bomb in a school playground in Co Antrim
THIS WEEK)
I honestly don't care what some chap said 2,000 years ago.
And to be frank, neither do many of the people doing the killing, maiming and shooting.
Give it up, let it go, and try to live by the stated ideals of the men you purport to follow.
I am completely against this event. It goes against most of what we think and believe.
But on the other hand, I am also against the KKK and NeoNazi's, the hate of Louis Farrakhan, and the support of NAMBLA members by the ACLU. And they all get to do what they want under the guise of Constitutional protections, so why should these idiots be treated any differently?
The best thing we could do as a country is prevent the press or anyone from showing up, no pictures, no front page reports on the NYT, and let them do what ever the hell they want. Just don't give them any press over it. The press is going to inflame this event by the coverage they give it. Just like any terrorist, give them the stage and they achieve their means. Take away the stage and no one can hear their BS.
:2cents:
He's trying to prove the hornet's nest is dangerous by whacking it with a stick. I'd call him an idiot, but I think he knows exactly what he is doing, which makes him evil.
But I stand by his right to freedom of speech, and I'm not going to prevent him from burning anything he owns. The asshole.
I'm not a book-burner at heart, but I do believe in equal opportunities and freedom of religion, so I'm thinking the authorities might want to intervene and make sure the religous book-burning is open to people of all faiths. I might show up and toss a few bibles on myself, just to balance out the pot as it were..... and perhaps a copy of "Oh Yuck". That's my kids' guidebook to life, apparently. I thought you were supposed to burn stuff you liked to appease deities anyway?
Do you think the Koran Burner(s) has actually read the Koran? If not, what do we all think about people who dismiss things without actually knowing about them? Judging a book by it's cover, as it were.....? Shallow, vain? Isn't vanity one of the Sins?
Koran, shit, you reckon he actually read the Bible?
I think I'm with Glatt. Free speech is an important thing, even if some dick has too be a total dick about it. Best thing is to ignore them, but it is too late for that, so a widespread public condemnation of the act is the next best thing.
I am completely against this event. It goes against most of what we think and believe.
The press is going to inflame this event by the coverage they give it. Just like any terrorist, give them the stage and they achieve their means. Take away the stage and no one can hear their BS.:2cents:
:thumb:
I stand by his right to freedom of speech, and I'm not going to prevent him from burning anything he owns. The asshole.
Bold for emphasis.
It amazes me the stupidity of the press to cover this piss-ant (sp?) preacher and his church with 50 friggin people. Why the hell are they giving him the world stage. Who benefits? The nutters on one side get all worked up and carry signs and the nutters on the other just use it to convince more people to join their cause ... leading to more killing and fighting and and and. WTF?
Koran, shit, you reckon he actually read the Bible?
I think I'm with Glatt. Free speech is an important thing, even if some dick has too be a total dick about it. Best thing is to ignore them, but it is too late for that, so a widespread public condemnation of the act is the next best thing.
I totally agree. Mostly i'm just going to ignore it. But yes, this sort of behaviour is darn irritating. Like cyclists who demand road rights and then sail through red lights.
I'm with Monster. Imma gonna burn a bible.
What needs to happen is that moderate Christians need to denounce the event as distinctly un-Christian.
That is after all what a lot of people asked the Muslims to do.
And it's easy, I mean, I could do it directly from the teachings of Christ, and I'm an anti-theist.
Burn a Koran....vandalize Mosques across the country.....denounce Islam as a cult...publish/promote nonsense of a coming Caliphate that is dangerous to America.....hold Muslim's right to free expression of their religion to a higher standard than others as a result of fear promulgated by haters.
Small degrees of separation that feed off of each other.
Hate is hate.
I'm chickening out of the clone thread: Burn a Korean Day :bolt:
It seems to me that symbolism is a big thing for Americans and those in certain parts of the Middle East – or perhaps it’s really just with religious folk.
You may, or may not find this relevant (and tedious).
Back in the late eighties or thereabouts, early days for what we now call ‘reality TV’, they ran a short series of programmes over here filmed in a small Spanish hotel. Tourists from four countries – England, Germany, the US and (I think) France stayed in the place for free on consecutive weeks understanding that they would be filmed. The guests didn’t know much about the show or that there were stooges in residence too – the idea being to see how the different nationalities would react to different situations. Meals would be served late, the bus driver taking them to an outing would be drunk, one of the stooges would steal drinks from the bar (the English helped him, the Germans tried to stop him and reported him immediately when he wouldn't) – that sort of thing.
Anyway, on their respective last days the groups returned to the hotel from an outing to find a large national flag that had hung in the dining room for the duration of their visit had been partly burned. No-one cared much, in fact if I recall correctly the Germans found it funny. Not so with the Americans though – there was anger and something approaching violence to the hotel staff. With the show over the participants were told that all the incidents, including the flag burning, had been faked for the show, and they all showed the expected amusement – but not, as you guess, the Americans. They were fine with everything else but not the flag, women were in tears, one of them insisting she be allowed to take it home to American soil for burial. Some of the production crew took refuge behind their equipment after someone from the team suggested that it was ‘just a piece of cloth’.
My point? Oh, you think I have one?
Well, I suppose it’s only that just because you find something important doesn’t mean everyone else does and if you do find some kind of symbol important to you be aware that others might have their own. Flags and Bibles and Korans don’t mean much to me but while I might be happy to toss one in a bin or burn it while clearing out I certainly wouldn’t do it in attempt to upset or antagonise others.
Burn a Koran....vandalize Mosques across the country.....denounce Islam as a cult...publish/promote nonsense of a coming Caliphate that is dangerous to America.....hold Muslim's right to free expression of their religion to a higher standard than others as a result of fear promulgated by haters.
You forgot a few - flying planes into the buildings, murder, bombing, kidnapping, rape, stoning, terrorism...
Small degrees of separation that feed off of each other.
Hate is hate.
yup.
You forgot a few - flying planes into the buildings, murder, bombing, kidnapping, rape, stoning, terrorism...
yup.
That is exactly the point.
When you make that connection, by blaming a religion for the actions of those few (among 1+ billion) who debase the religion for their own political/ideological purposes, you feed into the hate that creates backlash.
And by promoting that ignorance and blaming the religion , you becomes part of the problem and not the solution.
IF you feel so strongly about blaming Islam for flying planes into the buildings, murder, bombing, kidnapping, rape, stoning, terrorism..why not blame Christianity for the extreme Christian Identity movement that relies on the novel
The Turner Diaries for their mantra to exterminate Jews and non-whites in America and overthrown the government by force.
Or blame Christianity for Scott Turner acting on his Christian beliefs by murdering an abortion doctor in cold blood in Church.
Repeat...when you promote ignorance (Islam is a terrorist religion), you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
It amazes me the stupidity of the press to cover this piss-ant (sp?) preacher and his church with 50 friggin people. Why the hell are they giving him the world stage. Who benefits?
It's journalism. They post stories that will rouse emotion so people will keep reading their newspaper or watch their TV show. It obviously has worked, haha.
But just have a counter protest like the many against the Phelps family. Just burn something completely ridiculous next door and no one will cover the Quran book burning.
I pointed no finger at anyone - just listed a few more examples of things done as a "result of fear promulgated by haters" to add to your list.
He's trying to prove the hornet's nest is dangerous by whacking it with a stick. I'd call him an idiot, but I think he knows exactly what he is doing, which makes him evil.
But I stand by his right to freedom of speech, and I'm not going to prevent him from burning anything he owns. The asshole.
I'll make the argument that his speech is not protected speech under the first amendment as it is tantamount to "inciting to riot" and "hate speech" neither of which is protected. While he is not literally inciting people to riot, his actions are dangerously close to that.
He is an asshole.
I'm somehow very proud of all the above comments by Dwellars
This AM on TV one of the reporters said the preacher was being pressured to cancel and was saying they would go ahead with the "event". The reporter then said the preacher had left some wiggle room by saying that he would cancel if "his God spoke to him"
What would he do if it was Allah that spoke ?
When you make that connection, you feed into the hate that creates backlash.
You made that connection, not I.
And by promoting that ignorance and blaming the religion, you becomes part of the problem and not the solution.
You are the problem when you twist what others say, misconstrue their meaning and create tangents that didn't exist.
IF you feel so strongly about blaming Islam
why not blame Christianity for the extreme ...
Repeat...when I promote ignorance (Islam is a terrorist religion), I am the problem, not part of the solution.
I did not, nor do I blame Islam, just the extremists. Whatever their race, religion or ideology does not matter. It is you who continue to create this false argument that others are blaming islam, not I.
You are so extreme in YOUR views that you continue to perpetuate this completely incorrect argument.
It's [COLOR="Red"]IRRESPONSIBLE [/COLOR]journalism.
fixed that for you ;)
Lamplighter's question reminds me of the story about Nasruddin traveling with a Jew and a Christian. They are hungry and have no food and come to an oasis where they see a chocolate cake cut into 4 pieces, so they each eat a piece of cake, leaving one. After a while they fall into debate about who should have the last piece. Eventually they agree to sleep on it and whoever has the most spiritual dream should be rewarded with the cake.
The next morning they awake and share their dreams. The Jew tells how Moses came to him, walking through the parted Red Sea, bearing the tablets, surrounded by burning bushes, telling him that he was most deserving of the cake. The others agreed that his dream was full of very spiritual imagery, but then the Christian went on to describe and equally elaborate, significant dream with angels and seraphim bearing gold, frankincense, myrhh, and chocolate cake. And again, they all agreed it was na exceptionally spiritual dream. They asked Nasruddin about his dream and he said, "I dreamed Allah told me to wake up and eat the cake, so I did."
That is after all what a lot of people asked the Muslims to do.
Something they have generally failed to do in a big way.
IF you feel so strongly about blaming Islam for flying planes into the buildings, murder, bombing, kidnapping, rape, stoning, terrorism..why not blame Christianity for the extreme Christian Identity movement that relies on the novel The Turner Diaries for their mantra to exterminate Jews and non-whites in America and overthrown the government by force.
Or blame Christianity for Scott Turner acting on his Christian beliefs by murdering an abortion doctor in cold blood in Church.
Repeat...when you promote ignorance (Islam is a terrorist religion), you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Complete straw man argument. Stop trying to compare the recent violence of a limited number of extremist in this country to the immediate death of over 2800 people on 9/11.
I'm somehow very proud of all the above comments by Dwellars
This AM on TV one of the reporters said the preacher was being pressured to cancel and was saying they would go ahead with the "event". The reporter then said the preacher had left some wiggle room by saying that he would cancel if "his God spoke to him"
What would he do if it was Allah that spoke ?
I really don't trust the guy. He basically has a congregation of 50 people and now has the whole world looking at him for his greatest 15 min of fame, all fueled by the press coverage.
You made that connection, not I.
You are the problem when you twist what others say, misconstrue their meaning and create tangents that didn't exist.
I did not, nor do I blame Islam, just the extremists. Whatever their race, religion or ideology does not matter. It is you who continue to create this false argument that others are blaming islam, not I.
You are so extreme in YOUR views that you continue to perpetuate this completely incorrect argument.
Same old bullshit from you too, dude.
The issue for me is bigger than some bigoted minister. It is the growing backlash against Muslims in America....from this preacher, from Beck and Limbaugh, from Chirstohpher Hitchins and from innuendos like yours.
And that backlash is fueled by ignorant associations of the actions of few with an entire religion.
Thats my opinion an d i dont give a fuck if you like it not.
How cool would it be if the "reverend" was struck by lightening today?
or better yet - fell into his own fire ... Now THAT would be symbolic!
To me, it just shows how silly religion is.
I hate you because your magic book is different than my magic book.
So I'ma gonna burn it. Serves you right.
Ridiculous.
this
Something they have generally failed to do in a big way.
First cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Burning the Koran seems a little inflammatory, doesn't it?
Burning the Koran seems a little inflammatory, doesn't it?
Groooaaaan:D
I was just surprised that nobody else said it.
We were hoping that leaving it to you might put a lil fire under your ass to get back here and posting.
Vacation was rough. I had wifi everyplace I went, only tried to turn on the computer once, and that was in the one with the crappy signal that never managed to connect.
REV: THE BURNING WILL PROCEED...
'Meant to Be a Warning'...
Vatican: 'Outrageous'...
NYPD: 'Dangerous'...
Holder: 'Idiotic'...
Clinton: 'Disgraceful'...
Looks like all aspects of one side" have no problem with public condemnations of stupidity or outrageous behavior, why not the other?
I've always been a member of the "catch more flies with sugar" camp. As a Christian, I am very much anti-evangelistic. If I should ever manage to sway anyone to join my religion, it shall be because they see how happy I am and how I choose to live my life and think, hm, I might want that for myself. Tell me how you got there.
So, here's a somewhat-related news item:
A Muslim teenager from Ohio says her father threatened to kill her because she converted to Christianity.
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-09-03/justice/muslim.convert_1_rifqa-bary-mohamed-bary-muslim?_s=PM:CRIME
Now, I'm not saying it's right or wrong to attempt to sway anyone away from Islam--just that IF you were wanting to do that, would burning their holy book be a good way to start?
But why, you might ask, would I point that out? Is that indeed the goal of this Dove-hick-backwater-crazy-Christian church?
Yes. At least it says so on the church's Web site:
God loves you so much.. you can escape Islam and be free!
http://www.doveworld.org/shelterJust some more facts about this man (according to the German news channels):
He has lived and started his cult (or whatever you want to call it) in Cologne/Germany. He stated that this town was the gate of hell, because (1) the mother of the Roman emperor Nero had founded the city and (2) because Karl Marx had lived there for a while. He said he founded and ran his group to watch over this gate of hell.
Also, a German court has found him guilty for assuming an academic title (Dr.), that he had not acquired.
Which man Scriveyn?
The pastor who intends to stage the Koran burning
He has lived and started his cult (or whatever you want to call it) in Cologne/Germany. He stated that this town was the gate of hell, because (1) the mother of the Roman emperor Nero had founded the city and (2) because Karl Marx had lived there for a while. He said he founded and ran his group to watch over this gate of hell.
That's just insane.
Doesn't he know that the hellmouth was located in Sunnydale, CA and that Buffy closed it already?
First, Good on Juniper for starting this thread.
I feel the majority of Dwellar views here represent the best side of people,
as also shown in this
NY Times article
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/08/us/08koran.html?th&emc=th
In Florida, Many Lay Plans to Counter a Pastor’s Message
By DAMIEN CAVE
Published: September 7, 2010
Clergy members, academics and elected officials in Gainesville have planned nearly a dozen events to counter the plan, starting on Wednesday with an interfaith prayer service. On Saturday, hundreds of local residents and visitors are expected to rally against Mr. Jones, an evangelical pastor, with signs containing messages like “Peace among religions leads to peace among nations.”
Officials in Gainesville are making plans as if the burning will occur. A police checkpoint will be added. And though Fire Department officials have denied Mr. Jones a bonfire permit, Deputy Fire Chief Tim Hayes said Tuesday that contained residential fires that did not extend beyond three feet by three feet were allowed.
In the UK we have a 'Burn a Catholic' night every 5th November.
:facepalm:
Same old bullshit from you too, dude.
The issue for me is bigger than some bigoted minister. It is the growing backlash against Muslims in America....from this preacher, from Beck and Limbaugh, from Chirstohpher Hitchins and from innuendos like yours.
And that backlash is fueled by ignorant associations of the actions of few with an entire religion.
Thats my opinion an d i dont give a fuck if you like it not.
First cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
My point is that moderate muslims have failed to speak up about the years of violence. I am not a fan of polls but some of the ones taken after the bus bombings in the UK were quite interesting. In this country I see a huge outcry against this idiot from many Christian groups, his own kind.
I've
heard them speak out several times.
I have to respond. 'Moderate muslims' continually speak out. Perhaps you're not listening or maybe you need to change your news sources.
this reminds me of the Waltons episode in which the townsfolk got together to burn a bunch of books printed in German. John-Boy rescued one big book from the eager pastor's hands (John Ritter!) only to find that, to everyone's shock, it was the Bible! Lesson: if you destroy something an enemy holds dear, you risk destroying something you also might treasure. Or something like that.
Wow. You flashed on that too? I don't remember much of the Waltons, but that same thing came to my mind when I heard this.
What's funny is that there are so few conservative voices arguing against this even thought Gen. Petraeus has said it would be a bad idea. What happened to all those conservatiuve voices who warn 'this will hurt the troops' in response to any criticism of the war? Well, the commander of the whole f**cking war just told you what will hurt the troops and all I hear is.....silence.
maybe you need to change your news sources.
That was unfair - there are too many who are not looking at it that way. You're right.
If I wanted to really piss off the muslims, I'd just have lots of sex with lots of people.
The virtue of chastity is regarded as of prime importance by Islam. The Qur'an advanced its universal recommendation of marriage as a means to ensure a state of chastity (ihsan) which is held to be induced by a single free wife. Adultery and false accusations of adultery are severely punished.
Far more fun and much less hassle.
...did some more research......
OK, now I get why Americans Christians hate Muslims so much:
In Islamic life hoarding of wealth without recognizing the rights of the poor is threatened with the direst punishments in the hereafter and is declared to be one of the main causes of the decay of societies in this world. The practice of usury is forbidden. Islam is the concept of the community of the faithful.
They're fucken socialists! Reds under the beds!
That's one of the reasons they hate the Jews so much, because they're the ones who invented monetary interest.
I have to respond. 'Moderate muslims' continually speak out. Perhaps you're not listening or maybe you need to change your news sources.
Not in a response commensurate with the level of violence over the last 9 years in all the countries we have been involved in. The sitting governments have responded, where there is one, but that is not the same. There is no hue and outcry from the Imam's from countries like Indonesia (where the majority of muslims reside), from Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Pakistan, Bangledesh, Nigeria, Sudan, Algeria, etc, where are they. It has not and is not happening. To say there is a backlash and outcry against the violence that a minority of extremists have hijacked the religion is disingenuous at the least and borders on kool aid drinking progressive BS at the other end of the spectrum.
I've heard them speak out several times.
True. It that one case. One time. In 2004. Nothing but silence since. And that is good, because that is a from a "moderate" group, formed to moderate some of the discussion, and PR their point of view. All good.
They also went on to state in the article:
Asked whether moderates can export abroad the ideas developed in the United States, Fradkin replied, it's a "genuine prospect" but it will take an understanding of the real experience of democracy, "which is basically an abstraction in most of the Muslim world."
And there in lies the rub, the problem is not so much in this country where Muslims, generally have had a pretty good go of it till now, the problem is in the rest of the world where the majority live. Some 48 countries are muslim dominated. Hardly a peep in proportion to the level of violence.
I'm glad to see pretty much universal condemnation of burning the Koran. Even Sarah Palin says no!
If I wanted to really piss off the muslims, I'd just have lots of sex with lots of people.
Far more fun and much less hassle.
Don't forget the beer and the bacon.
Now that's how to fight a war on terror.
Really.
Just like nice weather and healthy babies, people disagreeing with violence aren't newsworthy. Terrible, devastating storms, kids born with serious disfigurements and crazy religious folk with a passion for murder are all 'sexy' stories that have the media we all love (and I once worked for) tearing chunks off each other to get to first.
You know it's true. Peace loving people no matter what their religious views are or how they express them just aren't going to make the headlines.
Which is precisely why we need a giant nude beer-n-bacon love-in.
Why would Muslims in other countries give a shit? We are the ones who went into Afghanistan and Iraq and killed thousands upon thousands of non-extremists. We look like the aggressor and terrorist to them.
I read of someone who had hung strips of bacon from his porch thinking it would keep muslims away from his house. Just in case clarification is needed, muslims aren't actually scared of bacon, they don't even really mind other folk eating it (both the muslim owned stores near here sell pork products) - they won't eat the stuff because they consider it to be unclean, that's all.
So what you are saying is that posting in the bacon thread isn't gonna save me?
Burning the Koran seems a little inflammatory, doesn't it?
Win.
This is what sucks. If he does do it, all of the Arab news outlets probably won't report that it was the act of one nut-job and that the majority of Americans were against it. To them, it won't matter.
I agree with what others said and thought the same thing myself...don't cover it. The news outlets should refuse to carry it. You may not be able to stop his right to do it, but you can take away his platform.
Wonder if they'll throw in some shots of americans dancing in the streets as part of the coverage....
Jinx - possibly so.
Ordinary people do stupid, evil things every day. The real problem is the media that chooses to report on it. And how they choose to report on it.
But they'll continue to do so, because it sells. This is nothing new, everyone knows this, it's not some profound revelation--but "free press" has nothing to do with ethics when it comes to TV news.
They killed Theo van Gogh for making a movie, tried to kill Rushdie for writing a book, and rioted over some cartoons. I should think this asshole would also be a marked man, which presents us with another coundrum... as distasteful as it may be, we have to protect him.
That thought did occur to me Bruce. I would imagine he would have thought about that too. My gut says he will stand down at the last minute and say that he made his point on calling attention to the evils of Islam.
The police protect witnesses, and the secret service protects VIPs, but celebrities have to get their own body guards.
I still say it is hate speech and is not protected by the first amendment.
The police protect witnesses, and the secret service protects VIPs, but celebrities have to get their own body guards.
Not if his murder is considered a terrorist act.
Wonder if they'll throw in some shots of americans dancing in the streets as part of the coverage....
Yeh probably from some holiday like memorial day. They'll write in that there was a whole big shebang about burning their holy book and andnandnandnandnandand :vomit:
[CENTER]Finally!!!!! YEAH Associated Press!! !! !! !! !! !! !![/CENTER]
The Associated Press said Thursday it will not distribute images or audio of the Quran-burning demonstration planned for Saturday evening by a Gainesville, Fla., church.
"Should the event happen on Saturday, the AP will not distribute images or audio that specifically show Qurans being burned, and will not provide detailed text descriptions of the burning," deputy managing editor Thomas Kent wrote in a memo to AP staff. "With the exception of these specific images and descriptions, we expect to cover the Gainesville event, in all media, placing the actions of this group of about 50 people in a clear and balanced context."
From the AP... of course
I thought this thread was calling out for a picture when I saw this...
[CENTER]Finally!!!!! YEAH Associated Press!! !! !! !! !! !! !![/CENTER]
From the AP... of course
Associated Press is not the only game in town. If it happens, photos and video will certainly be broadcast on Al Jazeera.
I'm well aware of that reality, but its nice that one FUCKING company stepped up and did the right thing for a change.
Broadcast? Al Jazeera will be distributing video tapes/discs to every half watt station in the world. :haha:
Al Jazeera will be distributing
video tapes/discs [COLOR="Green"]8-tracks, cassettes and/or slides...[/COLOR]
to every half watt station in the world. :haha:
fixed that for ya
I was just checking out Al Jazeera's coverage of this, and saw a
few details I hadn't previously seen. Not surprising, I suppose, because I don't follow news stories like this all that closely.
Since announcing the plan to burn the Qur’an, Pastor Jones has discovered that such an act has a host of negative externalities. For starters, his bank has demanded that he immediately repay the church’s mortgage balance, and his insurance company cancelled the church’s policy. Furthermore, the local authorities, citing strict fire codes, rejected twice his application to burn the holy book.
On, english.aljazeera.net, anyway.
A short BBC article on how the story is being reported across the Muslim world:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11232669BBC just reported that the burn has been called off. Searching for link now.
Also reported on NPR.
ETA: also fox news and aljazeerah. No links, but it is on the breaking news crawl at the top of every news page.
Cancelled
Also the hosting service of the church's website shut it down due to terms of use violations. 2 guesses as to what that was.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/09/koran-burner-website-yanked/ negative externalities, indeed.
so where does this leave everything. where do we go from here?
Have also heard that the pastor says he has spoken to the imam for the cultural center in New York scheduled to be built, and the pastor says he has a meeting at the cultural center site AND that the imam has agreed to move the site of the building. the report I heard ALSO said there was no confirmation of such an agreement.
I find this pretty Machiavellian on the pastor's part. if such an agreement does exist, then he's blackmailed the developers of this project. If such an agreement does not exist, and I sincerely believe there is no such agreement, then when it is denied, he can claim (falsely) that the imam reneged. clever, but evil.
Just as I said...he backed down. I think he was just making noise.
As far as WBC...not at all shocked that they want to be in the headlines again. Let's ship them off to Pakistan and let them do it there. I wouldn't mind seeing the muzzies take care of that group. ;)
I see these two pastors as attention whores.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Called it!
Now there is a "he said, he said" disagreement between the imam and the pastor about the "agreement". Gawd. I'm turning my attention elsewhere.
I think we should encourage him to burn them, hope some crazy faction puts a shiite-salman-rushdie-type-fatwa on him and call it Darwinism at work.
Cancelled
Also the hosting service of the church's website shut it down due to terms of use violations. 2 guesses as to what that was.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/09/koran-burner-website-yanked/
I read the asshole's bank called his mortgage, and his insurance company cancelled his policy on the building.
I think we should encourage him to burn them, hope some crazy faction puts a shiite-salman-rushdie-type-fatwa on him and call it Darwinism at work.
Let's ask Yusuf what he thinks. :p:
.... then he's blackmailed the developers of this project.
Sort of like the world wide blackmailing done by muslim extremists anytime someone does something they disagree with? Threatened executions, murders, bombings, etc?
Sort of like the world wide blackmailing done by muslim extremists anytime someone does something they disagree with? Threatened executions, murders, bombings, etc?
So, you're advocating we start acting like Muslim extremists?
Or is it that you're still in fifth grade and you think that constitutes a reasonable excuse - "Well, Bobby blackmailed first!"?
There was some major discussion/disagreement this am on Morning Joe.
A couple times it got so heated they kept reverting to "sports is good"
I gather there are Muslims rioting overseas now about the Koran-burn -- on a contingency basis.
This sort of behavior makes me laugh.
Oh and the producer guy offstage said "F*CK" to Mika while the camera was on him. They cut to commercial and he apologized ... pretty funny. I hope it ends up on youtube.
Sort of like the world wide blackmailing done by muslim extremists anytime someone does something they disagree with? Threatened executions, murders, bombings, etc?
Yes. Exactly.
I find the galactic overreaction on our part in response to such actions undesirable and unhelpful. I find it on par with capitulating with any other blackmailer or extortionist--it fuels further blackmail and extortion.
Take as an example our insane airport screening procedures in place today. I have no problem being forbidden from carrying onboard my pocket knife or box cutter. That's fine. Must I be patted down though? Must I remove my shoes though? No bottles of water, etc? Look at the threat; look at the response. Even if the original intention of the threat was some physical harm (or to burn some books), the end result of the FEARMONGERING was as bad or worse that the original threat! AND we have be bonus of not having solved the original problem! We're still at risk! Korans could still be burned! Blackmail *needs* two willing parties to both do their part. Blackmail *fails* when either party doesn't do their part.
**I** have the power to choose whether or not **I** am vulnerable or invulnerable to blackmail. It doesn't have to work. I hope it doesn't work.
I gather there are Muslims rioting overseas now about the Koran-burn -- on a contingency basis.
This sort of behavior makes me laugh.
Really? Why are you laughing? Because the real damage done by the actions of this pastor is only less than it could have been? Words count, and you yourself know this and believe in this and count on this. Otherwise, why do you bother to post? Words count for others, too, including those that have been incited to riot by the words of this pastor.
For starters, his bank has demanded that he immediately repay the church’s mortgage balance, and his insurance company cancelled the church’s policy.
Yeah, but honestly, that probably has little to do with taking a moral stand against the pastor's actions. If this thing had gone forward, I guarantee you somebody would have torched that church building as soon as the police left. Bank loses their collateral, and the insurance company has to pay out.
But wouldn't it be an "act of god"? :bolt:
lol !!
Wait.. so, the burning down of the church due to the Pastors ridiculous actions, is really just Gods way of telling him to shut the fuck up already.
Priceless.
LOL-- ever since our local feature "touchdown Jesus" got zapped by lightning, I've begun to believe that He really does take an interest in day-to-day things, at least from the aspect of having a sense of humor.
Yeah, but honestly, that probably has little to do with taking a moral stand against the pastor's actions. If this thing had gone forward, I guarantee you somebody would have torched that church building as soon as the police left. Bank loses their collateral, and the insurance company has to pay out.
Oh, absolutely. Banks and insurance companies don't take moral stands... unless it helps the bottom line.
Which is precisely why we need a giant nude beer-n-bacon love-in.
Can we make it kosher?
Qu'ran? I thought we were burning Korans. I feel cheated.
Moslem, Muslim, Koran, Qu'ran, let's call the whole thing off.
Has the idiot in Queensland smoking pages of the Bible and the Koran made world news yet?
Has the idiot in Queensland smoking pages of the Bible and the Koran made world news yet?
You know he's a lecturer at QUT don't you?
What a tool!
Every time I see this thread title I think it says 'Burn a Korean Day'.
So, you're advocating we start acting like Muslim extremists?
No, but from my experience it is what they understand best.
Or is it that you're still in fifth grade and you think that constitutes a reasonable excuse - "Well, Bobby blackmailed first!"?
:corn: :lol2: what a maroon....
You know he's a lecturer at QUT don't you?
What a tool!
I reckon. Last time he featured on a news item I saw he was 'taking leave'.
Burn a Koran....vandalize Mosques across the country.....denounce Islam as a cult...publish/promote nonsense of a coming Caliphate that is dangerous to America.....hold Muslim's right to free expression of their religion to a higher standard than others as a result of fear promulgated by haters.
Small degrees of separation that feed off of each other.
Hate is hate.
I liked this.
No, but from my experience it is what they understand best.
Right... because you know them so well.
what a maroon....
Witty...almost.
I'd say half-witty.
Right... because you know them so well.
Witty...almost.
I'd say half-witty.
Shitty?
Right... because you know them so well.
Witty...almost.
I'd say half-witty.
Or maybe its just drinking too much
to wash down all that :corn: he is always eating here.
:corn:
I give you credit, Merc. You always stand by your posts (with popcorn in hand), as misguided or ignorant, IMO, as some of them are.
You dont attempt to lie your away out of them or make a feeble attempt to recast them as meaning something other than what was intended... or go whining to the mods that you're being picked on.
I give you credit, Merc. You always stand by your posts (with popcorn in hand), as misguided or ignorant, IMO, as some of them are.
You dont attempt to lie your away out of them or make a feeble attempt to recast them as meaning something other than what was intended... or go whining to the mods that you're being picked on.
:fumette:
Yea, I could basically give a fuck what anyone thinks about my position on issues.
I guess in the hope that there will be a legitimate exchange of ideas and to hear what others think about any issues. I have modified many of my thoughts and views since posting on this forum. It is healthy. I respect many of the posters on this site for their contrary views and ideas. It can only be a good thing to keep expanding and exploring thoughts and ideas that I may find contrary. No cost.
Then why even post?
Why not? Should anyone not post because the feel their opinion won't be accepted? That's crazy talk. Should you post your opinion with the intention of winning people over to your side? Good luck with that. All opinions are welcome, even abrasive ones. The more everyone knows, not only facts and figures, but how other real people feel about issues, the better they're prepared to deal with the world.
I guess in the hope that there will be a legitimate exchange of ideas and to hear what others think about any issues. I have modified many of my thoughts and views since posting on this forum. It is healthy. I respect many of the posters on this site for their contrary views and ideas. It can only be a good thing to keep expanding and exploring thoughts and ideas that I may find contrary. No cost.
Maybe I misunderstood. To me this sounds like you do care.
He cares what others say because it's enriching... doesn't lose sleep over what people think of what he says, just throws it on the pile with the rest.
100% completely correct. It is not that I don't care or completely discard what others say, only that I don't really care about what others think about what I say or think. I have been around the world to many situations and many places that most people will never go or never have the chance to experience, I place value on MOST but not all, of others experiences and perspectives. But it does not mean that I either placate or facilitate those views. They are just other views, just like mine, some are filed, some are dissected, many are just discarded. I don't think most people on here treat me with even that much respect or consideration.
No we don't. The manner in which you present your ideas drives those of us who could agree with some of them away. The hate, the anger, the lack of humanity buries your ideas completely. If your intention here is to pull others to your position you are failing because you don't express your position in terms of what would be good and how it would be good, but only in reaction to the bad which is already obvious to all but the most ardent left-wing believers.
I guess in the hope that there will be a legitimate exchange of ideas and to hear what others think about any issues. I have modified many of my thoughts and views since posting on this forum. It is healthy. I respect many of the posters on this site for their contrary views and ideas. It can only be a good thing to keep expanding and exploring thoughts and ideas that I may find contrary. No cost.
100% completely correct. It is not that I don't care or completely discard what others say, only that I don't really care about what others think about what I say or think. I have been around the world to many situations and many places that most people will never go or never have the chance to experience, I place value on MOST but not all, of others experiences and perspectives. But it does not mean that I either placate or facilitate those views. They are just other views, just like mine, some are filed, some are dissected, many are just discarded. I don't think most people on here treat me with even that much respect or consideration.
:corn:
Really? Why are you laughing? Because the real damage done by the actions of this pastor is only less than it could have been? Words count, and you yourself know this and believe in this and count on this. Otherwise, why do you bother to post? Words count for others, too, including those that have been incited to riot by the words of this pastor.
Okay, to clarify.
It makes me laugh because to riot on a contingency basis is just absurd. Grim absurdities abound in this clash of civilizations, and most of the absurd seems to be on our opponents' side. They look about as goofy as Rage Boy (q.v.). He could seriously advertise some toothpaste all over Pakistan. It'd be about like Baghdad Bob emigrating to America and getting a job advertising cars -- "Would I lie to you?"
I thought the riots were a reaction to the NJ Transit employee burning pages from the Koran in NYC?
Sheesh. Are the rioters of Kabul, now resting from their labors, well enough informed to distinguish Florida from NYC? There are those on the ground who report they are not.
Et encore, c'est rire.
Most likely not. That doesn't matter. Like any good extremist, they believe what they are told.
No we don't. The manner in which you present your ideas drives those of us who could agree with some of them away. The hate, the anger, the lack of humanity buries your ideas completely. If your intention here is to pull others to your position you are failing because you don't express your position in terms of what would be good and how it would be good, but only in reaction to the bad which is already obvious to all but the most ardent left-wing believers.
That thinking is silly....
I do not expect you or others to agree with me. Only to respect my decisions to express them, as contrary to what you think and believe. You can't even do that. I don't need to justify my thinking, philosophy or ideas about issues to you or anyone else. Accept them or reject them, I am cool with that... But you can't do that.
It's not your thinking or philosophy, it's the hand grenades that have an antisocial effect. ;)
Eh, so be it.
I am a military guy, direct, take it or leave it, what you see is what you get. There is no hidden agenda. I accept that whatever the perspective is after that is a normal life event. My experience is that people will evaluate exchanges on the internet as a narrow view of their world understanding combined with their life experience to that point. It is not a dig, just an observation. The other observation is that if you think you know someone based upon exchanges on a public forum your are a total fucked up dick and you have a brain the size of a pea, just like Spexxvet.
See you liberal progressive cocksuckers in Nov. Then we can talk.
Hand grenades are not the posts where you say something, they're the posts where you don't. They have no purpose except to agitate, and they do. It's your choice, I'm just sayin'.
Understood. Thanks for your input.
My motivation, as assessed is often not to agitate, often is is really how I feel about issues. How does one divide that out? How do you peel off what is in your heart and what you really feel from some Bullshit touchy feely pile of crap that many try to pass off as "trying to keep the peace" bullshit conversation? Dancing around the issues? Deep throating the party line of the current powers that be? Tiptoeing around the issues of race and scumbags from the far left throw out the race card to shut down conversation and dissent? Now every single person who disagrees with the socialist agenda of Obama or the Demoncrats is now a racist or a bigot. What has happened is they have reset the race card back to the 1950's and in many peoples mind they are going to have to restart it all again with this exploitive tactic of using the race card for every aspect of fighting and disagreeing with disagreement. the idea of anyone who disagrees with Obama is a racist needs to be put to bed, it is bullshit.
So be it, but don't be surprised by the bed you now have to lay in.
Because you don't expand your arguments with whatever lessons you've learned in life, I make assumptions to fill in the blanks. You have emerged from the largest socialist enterprise in our country the US Army. You've been fed, clothed, sheltered, and educated by us the taxpayers. You were taken care of and told what to do most of your adult life, but now you are confronted by the real world you defended. Now you realize you don't care much for a democracy of the real world where people have to figure out how to feed, cloth, shelter, and educate themselves. That is the person I see complaining about taxes. I'm sure you see me as a cartoon as well, but I've at least attempted to communicate where I'm coming from.
I do get a laugh out of "deep throating the party line" in the same post as "socialist agenda of Obama and the Democrats"......no partisan bullshit in the latter.
And I always get a laugh out of your many partisan editorials and when those editorials are challenged, your characterization of the differing opinion expressed here as partisan talking points....no contradiction there.
I try to back my opinions with facts. Can you say the same? Of course, you characterize any facts I post as partisan talking points or demand that I prove a negative or pull out the popcorn. Common tactics when you cant support your own opinion.
Playing the race card? You care to cite some examples of how others play the race card in discussions here and you dont (NAACP is racist, mayor of Savannah is racist, etc)?
And then of course, the cock suckers, tit suckers, nazis, whores cunts....all very helpful to any discussion.
Okay, to clarify.
It makes me laugh because to riot on a contingency basis is just absurd. Grim absurdities abound in this clash of civilizations, and most of the absurd seems to be on our opponents' side. They look about as goofy as Rage Boy (q.v.). He could seriously advertise some toothpaste all over Pakistan. It'd be about like Baghdad Bob emigrating to America and getting a job advertising cars -- "Would I lie to you?"
I appreciate your effort to clarify your thoughts. Unsurprisingly, I disagree with your conclusions.
You presume you know the motivations of the rioters, which you can not (nor can I). But your theory is absurd, consistent for you, but ironic given your constant admonitions of other dwellars' poor thinking. You have made the mistake of picking your "facts" to conform to your theory. A good thinker does just the opposite, conforming their theories to the facts.
You say "It makes me laugh because to riot on a contingency basis is just absurd." I disregard the rest of your paragraph because it is only more of your whining insults, nothing like a critical assessment of what's going on outside your head. You claim the rioters' actions were motivated on a "contingency basis" and call that absurd. In fact, you use this as the foundation for your string of insults. But there is no fact to support such a theory. The only facts here are that a pastor in Florida threatened to burn some Korans and that some people rioted.
The best (simplest, most reasonable and believable, most consistent) correlation that can be made between these two facts, a pastor threatened to burn some Korans and some people rioted) is that the people were incited to riot by the threats made by pastor. This is not absurd. It may be an overreaction by the standards of some. Let me draw an analogy. If you were faced with someone who is shouting loudly and aggressively, threatening to do you harm, and you were carrying your firearm, what would you do? Would you wait until he physically harmed you before you shot him? Maybe you would shoot him before he had the chance to do so. If you did, would you say to the police that you'd shot him on a "contingency basis"? Or would you say your responded to the threat of violence?
I contend that the reason the rioters' acted violently is because they were responding to the threat of violence, not because of some absurd, "contingency basis".
It is possible that you are unable to empathize with people who feel so strongly about their religion that such a threat is tantamount to violence, and would respond accordingly. This might partly account for why you wouldn't see such an obvious correlation, and therefore had to come up with such an absurd one. However, I don't think I can help you become more empathetic.
As I understand it, the Kabul riots were in response to a fatal car crash between a car driven by American contractor, and one driven by an Afghan.
It is possible that you are unable to empathize with people who feel so strongly about their religion that such a threat is tantamount to violence, and would respond accordingly.
I will never be able to empathize with people that practice arson, physical violence, and murder, in response to insulting a book, or in fact insulting Deities themselves.
You want to burn a Bible, have at it... unless it's mine.
And Deities by definition are much more powerful than I, therefore they can fight their own battles.
I contend that the reason the rioters' acted violently is because they were responding to the threat of violence, not because of some absurd, "contingency basis".
What was the threat of violence? How was this pastor "violent" from half way around the world?
xoB, I also believe such a response to such a provocation is an overreaction, to say the least. But I do empathize with them. I know I have, and every other person has, feelings and beliefs that are held so closely that an insult or a threat to those beliefs is indistinguishable from an insult or a threat to my person. And some threats to my person will be met with violence.
Where is the line between one's beliefs and one's self? What things are worth defending? Each person answers such question for themselves, but I believe we all have them, including those absurd Afghans.
What was the threat of violence? How was this pastor "violent" from half way around the world?
Read the next paragraph.
I know I have, and every other person has, feelings and beliefs that are held so closely that an insult or a threat to those beliefs is indistinguishable from an insult or a threat to my person.
I can't think of any I would kill over.
Where is the line between one's beliefs and one's self?
That's immaterial, the question is where's the line between insult and physical threat.
What things are worth defending? Each person answers such question for themselves, but I believe we all have them, including those absurd Afghans.
Defending from what, someone changing you mind(beliefs)? No one can force you to do that. Now if they threaten you with retribution for not changing your mind, then it's kick ass time.
I can't think of any I would kill over.
Not even bacon?
I can't think of any I would kill over.
But you suggest stoning all of a woman's male relatives for making the woman wear a burka. I guess you have a little wiggle room there.
Christ, you really don't get it, do you. :facepalm:
You have emerged from the largest socialist enterprise in our country the US Army. You've been fed, clothed, sheltered, and educated by us the taxpayers. You were taken care of and told what to do most of your adult life, but now you are confronted by the real world you defended. Now you realize you don't care much for a democracy of the real world where people have to figure out how to feed, cloth, shelter, and educate themselves. That is the person I see complaining about taxes. I'm sure you see me as a cartoon as well, but I've at least attempted to communicate where I'm coming from.
The difference is that I had to give up something to get those perks. I had to make many sacrifices that neither you or many other will ever have to give up. It was a business arrangement between me, and the sacrifices I had to make over 20 years, and the government, who gave me the perks, it was and is a contract, written and re-negotiated at milestones over the course of 20 years. The real world has no such contracts or responsibilities to get the perks of food, clothing, shelter, and education with the government. So I don't think there is much of a comparison. But of course you have repeatedly reinforced your assessment of my views on most subjects. I don't see you as a cartoon at all. I see you as a real person with a family and much of the same responsibilities that I have, and a significantly different view about life. You want me to tolerate what you respect, but yet you find me and my views completely non-respectable. I accepted that a long time ago. Peace.
Merc, does that mean that you would support social programs as long as they required some degree of commitment from the recipients? Jobs programs for those who are willing to work, welfare for those who are willing to attend occupational training, food for those who will work in the food kitchen/garden some number of hours? Healthcare for those who... what? Can you think of a reciprocal commitment that would be fair for people who needed to be on a federal healthcare plan?
Merc, does that mean that you would support social programs as long as they required some degree of commitment from the recipients? Jobs programs for those who are willing to work, welfare for those who are willing to attend occupational training, food for those who will work in the food kitchen/garden some number of hours? Healthcare for those who... what? Can you think of a reciprocal commitment that would be fair for people who needed to be on a federal healthcare plan?
[off the cuff response] yes, all of that. Really my only point was to say there is no comparison to my experience, socialized system (completely false premise IMHO), to the current social system of increasing public dependence.
I need to think on this to formulate a more complete response.
The difference is that I had to give up something to get those perks. I had to make many sacrifices that neither you or many other will ever have to give up.
Minor quibble; You didn't have to do it, you thought it was a good deal and you took it and the others who paid for it did so without the job security you enjoyed. Condescension is an interesting poison which we both seem to like. Where interactions with you are concerned, I fall into the same klesha that you fall into whenever you talk politics. I'll try for peace, but your passion for the fringe doesn't strike me as a way to a sensible solution to our mounting debt crisis, so despite our not so dissimilar economic views we will be in conflict.
Minor quibble; You didn't have to do it, you thought it was a good deal and you took it and the others who paid for it did so without the job security you enjoyed.
Hardly a minor difference. I had a contract for job, which I had to qualify for, through an education, or I would not have gotten the job. Once the system accepted my application I had to abide by a set system of terms and conditions. And throughout that period I had to continually requalify to continue to receive my pay and benifits. That is hardly a comparison to a socialized system where your only qualification is that you have to do nothing and someone else pays your way.... for generations.
Condescension is an interesting poison which we both seem to like. Where interactions with you are concerned, I fall into the same klesha that you fall into whenever you talk politics. I'll try for peace, but your passion for the fringe doesn't strike me as a way to a sensible solution to our mounting debt crisis, so despite our not so dissimilar economic views we will be in conflict.
That may be so, but your disdain for me is well documented on this forum. I have hardly made such comments to you or about you with the exception of when I first joined, what, years ago. So be it.
Stop it Merc. Griff is not the one to pick this fight with. He's been more open than many to at least dialogue with you.
Why in the world would you think I was trying to pick a fight with him!
Good fucking grief, I can't even disagree with something someone states, state a counter position with it being viewed as "picking a fight".
I felt like we were making some headway in having an agreeable disagreement about some issues. Isn't that how people hash stuff out? I have been quite civil in this exchange and all my exchanges since LJ started his 40 plus page rant about me.
Anyone feel free to pile on.
That may be so, but your disdain for me is well documented on this forum. I have hardly made such comments to you or about you with the exception of when I first joined, what, years ago. So be it.
True. It goes back to your abuse of Ibram. He has essentially dropped off the board, it was a long time ago, and I need to let it go.
True. It goes back to your abuse of Ibram. He has essentially dropped off the board, it was a long time ago, and I need to let it go.
But why do you leave off my public apology to him? I screwed up big time and admitted it to him and everyone else here. Am I not allowed a chance to make amends when I see that I have done wrong? Is perfection of a man your standard? When a person makes a mistake and then makes a public apology to the person he wronged is that not enough? When do I get that break? Ibram was owed an apology and got one. What he chose to do with it from that point forward was his decision. But if you carefully re-read that thread and see what I said to him maybe you could cut me some slack. We have all had to deal with internal demons, he just happened to bring some forth for me and I had to face them after what I said to him. They are still there to some degree, but I at least admitted to the community that I was wrong.
I was probably not reading it very charitably back then. You've admitted the wrong here. I will try to focus on what you write not my preconceptions of you. I can see you are not attempting to start something, you are finishing something and that is admirable. I will also strive to be a better dwellar. I apologize for being a complete bastard to you.
I was probably not reading it very charitably back then. You've admitted the wrong here. I will try to focus on what you write not my preconceptions of you. I can see you are not attempting to start something, you are finishing something and that is admirable. I will also strive to be a better dwellar. I apologize for being a complete bastard to you.
And I to you. I propose a peace pact. I recognize that we are both passionate in our feelings about issues but I assure you that I am not, nor have I ever been a one trick pony. I have a wide range of diverse views and opinions on things. I completely respect your divergence of my views and will strive to be a better poster to you personally. I publicly apologize if have said anything offensive to you personally, not about our differing views, but about you. Please accept my apology and let's move forward from this point. I can't go back and change some of the things I have said to you, but I acknowledge them and will try to make amends. That is the best I can do.
That right there is what it's all about... good goin' you guys! :thumbsup:
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