Fight the Grammer Nazis
Fake language rules can come from respected sources, but that’s no reason to believe them.
None are? None is? They’re both correct.
The girl that I marry. No, it doesn’t have to be whom I marry.
Since you asked. It’s totally legit to use since for because, unless it would cause ambiguity.
Healthy choices. Many of us have been taught that it’s healthy people but healthful foods.
“Till” was there first. In recent decades, somebody launched the mischievous rumor that till is a substandard form of until.
Verbing nouns.
“And” can start a sentence. So can But and However.
Misspelled is not misused. Errors like “faster then a speeding bullet” and “taking a lot of flack” are mistakes in spelling, not comprehension.
The adverb can be “wrong.”
You only live once. Spotting “misplacements” of only is a hobby for some picky readers — they’d rewrite that sentence as “you live only once,” so there’s no way to misinterpret it.
link
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/08/29/un_rules/?page=1“Till” was there first. In recent decades, somebody launched the mischievous rumor that till is a substandard form of until. In fact, till is ancient English, and until was formed by combining on and till. If you want to disparage a member of this family, go with ’til, the entirely superfluous 20th-century addition.
That's fascinating! I had no idea.
I never criticize anyone's spelling, punctuation or grammar in discussion board posts or e-mails because the Law of Karma (or something) says that if someone does, he or she is virtually guaranteed to have one of the aforementioned issues with his own post or e-mail.
It's happened to me. Ugh. So embarrassing. I had a brain fart and forgot how to spell "mischievous." It did not go uncorrected.
Besides, it's just rude. People tend to do this when they can't think of any other way to respond in a debate. "Blah blah." "Oh yeah? Well, you can't spell."
The language is evolving. You can tell the difference between someone who knows the rules and breaks them intentionally, for some effect, and someone who just doesn't get it. Or doesn't care.
The only ones I really criticize are the ones who don't care.
1. Besides, it's just rude. People tend to do this when they can't think of any other way to respond in a debate. "Blah blah." "Oh yeah? Well, you can't spell."
2. The language is evolving. You can tell the difference between someone who knows the rules and breaks them intentionally, for some effect, and someone who just doesn't get it. Or doesn't care.
So true for both points.
Gr8?[SIZE="4"] Gr8?[/SIZE] What kind of grammer/spelling is that! :lol2:
I held off for a while.
But please note:
Misspelled is not misused. Errors like “faster then a speeding bullet” and “taking a lot of flack” are mistakes in spelling, not comprehension.
I was correcting spelling, not comprehension.
I don't criticise. At least I don't think I do.
Sometimes an intelligent person obviously misuses a phrase, word, spelling etc in which case I'll point it out. Not as a criticism, but because I'm sure they'd prefer to know. IRL I'll pick people up on pronunciation. I hope I don't come across as mean, but myself I'd rather be told. Of course there are many typos, slip ups or things that just don't matter and I don't want to ally myself with people that froth at the mouth about those.
Some things I've learned are cultural differences, some are regional. Again - better that I know that.
Do I judge people on their spelling and the writen presentation of their posts? Yes, I do, to an extent. I was going to write sorry, but I'm not sorry. I do not hold anyone to a particularly high standard - my grammar and spelling are workaday. And I know my punctuation is pretty appalling - I consult the internet when writing formally.
But anyone who consistently uses text abbrevs or regularly misuses homonyms will give me a certain opinion about their communication skills.
I'm ashamed to say I didn't see anything wrong in "faster than a speeding bullet", so I'd probably irritate purists myself. I know my enunciation would make experts faint, anyway. And I'd not like UG to parse my posts :)
I suppose it depends on your definition of Grammar Nazi.
I'll not be breaking down any bookcases any time soon anyway.
I don't be gonna touch dis thread here.
I don't criticise. At least I don't think I do.
Some things I've learned are cultural differences, some are regional. Again - better that I know that.
Exactly. And at the risk of belaboring the obvious, "criticize" is the American spelling. :) Or, shall I say,
belabouring the obvious? :3eye:
Which reminds me. A few years ago I wrote an article for a Canadian magazine. I asked the editor, should I try to write it in "Canadian-ese?" Meaning, things like labour, colour, flavour, criticise, etc.?
She said no, Americans just get it all wrong anyhow. Their editors would fix it right up for me, and she appreciated that at least I knew the difference. :)
I'm ashamed to say I didn't see anything wrong in "faster than a speeding bullet", so I'd probably irritate purists myself.
Yes you did, subconsciously, because you corrected it when you rewrote it.
The processes of putting words together and the words themselves were invented for one purpose – to convey meaning. So long at that’s achieved I don’t mind people breaking the rules at all – in fact I’m all for it.
Fake language rules can come from respected sources, but that’s no reason to believe them.
For instance, your occasional tries at telling me what is not a valid word. I can't recall any of these instances where a sufficiently complete dictionary did not support my usage, rather than yours. At least of late you've given that game up. Yes, I regard a Collegiate Dictionary as inadequate for college-level writing. I would put the peak of its usefulness somewhere about junior high, and for the writer not frightfully ambitious to grow into a fierce wild
Thesaurus spp. at that.
Misspelled is not misused. Errors like “faster then a speeding bullet” and “taking a lot of flack” are mistakes in spelling, not comprehension.
I'd take issue with this too. The miscomprehending substitution of homonyms and near-homonyms for the correct terms is a variation of the hobson-jobson, one done within a language rather than between two -- and it can induce an error of comprehension. That this is so very much associated with words of similar if not identical sound suggests the error arrives through the poorly functioning or inattentive ear, aggravated with a lack of reading well-edited material that might steer one to better understanding. It would remove such infelicities as "spitting image" and "one in the same."
TEAL -- plucking away greengrocers' apostrophes... a/k/a prepostrophes.
And I'd not like UG to parse my posts :)
Mwahahahaha!!1 I'm a regular parsing Pharisee, I am.
While many's the dictionary that blesses "belabor the obvious," I far prefer "labor the obvious." To belabor is to abuse or to batter. Consider the related phrase "labor the point" -- any point so treated gets bent over and rapidly loses any resemblance to a point, IMHO. It no longer points in the direction it should. A point that is merely labored does not suffer this dismal fate. As a crummy substitute, it suffers tendentious tediousness. Perhaps I should unyoke this weary point from the plow of metaphor and rest it from its labor.:rolleyes:
There we have it, UG, the best reason in the world to not let your children be grammar nazis.
Urban Gorilla
It would remove such infelicities as "spitting image" and "one in the same."
"One
and the same" but "spitting image" I'd always heard was a corruption of "spirit and image"
What have you heard or read?
Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be linguists.
[COLOR="LemonChiffon"].[/COLOR]
A cackle of mad scientists.:lol2:
"One and the same" but "spitting image" I'd always heard was a corruption of "spirit and image"
What have you heard or read?
Or "spit and image," which sounds like an intermediate step. See the oldfashioned phrase "the
spit of him," i.e., a very strong resemblance.
But the two get regrettably miswritten.
Bruce, how 'bout you give my ass a nice deep
baiser? I do not constitute a reason not to be a Grammar Nazi, and you can decide to stop being a putz just any second now. My being blessed with a respect for the English language is not grounds for you giving me a hard time. Had you a full measure of sense, you'd know that much. As it is...
I was just reading a 1930s book on farming and they talked about a "spit" of dirt meaning a shovelful that is as thick, wide, and deep as the blade.
Or "spit and image," which sounds like an intermediate step. See the oldfashioned phrase "the spit of him," i.e., a very strong resemblance.
But the two get regrettably miswritten.
Bruce, how 'bout you give my ass a nice deep [COLOR="Red"]baiser?[/COLOR] I do not constitute a reason not to be a Grammar Nazi, and you can decide to stop being a putz just any second now.[COLOR="Red"] My being blessed with a respect for the English language is not grounds for you giving me a hard time.[/COLOR] Had you a full measure of sense, you'd know that much. As it is...
If you have such respect for the English language, why don't you use
it, instead of talking like a goddamned frog?
BWAHAHAHAHAHA - digr - thats too funny - no really - TOO funny!
And learn how to spell labour, too! :p:
Some grammar rules are important, they keep meaning clear and unambiguous. Some are not - I am happy to boldly split an infinitive, and I hold that a preposition is a word you can end a sentence with.
If you have such respect for the English language, why don't you use it, instead of talking like a goddamned frog?
I am using English more fully than you. If I write in the English of an educated man, where's the harm in you reading educated English, hm? I don't imagine there's a downside.
French is only one of my languages. I was sufficiently educated to have some.
In the future, never ask me if I'll let you be a stupe, okay? I always answer "Don't you fucking dare." I don't allow stupid, and I disparage those that do.
Actually, you write the English of a pretentious twat. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but if we're calling a spade a spade....
Fight The Power
1989 the number another summer (get down)
Sound of the funky drummer
Music hittin' your heart cause I know you got sould
(Brothers and sisters, hey)
Listen if you're missin' y'all
Swingin' while I'm singin'
Givin' whatcha gettin'
Knowin' what I know
While the Black bands sweatin'
And the rhythm rhymes rollin'
Got to give us what we want
Gotta give us what we need
Our freedom of speech is freedom or death
We got to fight the powers that be
Lemme hear you say
Fight the power
Chorus
As the rhythm designed to bounce
What counts is that the rhymes
Designed to fill your mind
Now that you've realized the prides arrived
We got to pump the stuff to make us tough
from the heart
It's a start, a work of art
To revolutionize make a change nothin's strange
People, people we are the same
No we're not the same
Cause we don't know the game
What we need is awareness, we can't get careless
You say what is this?
My beloved lets get down to business
Mental self defensive fitness
(Yo) bum rush the show
You gotta go for what you know
Make everybody see, in order to fight the powers that be
Lemme hear you say...
Fight the Power
Chorus
Elvis was a hero to most
But he never meant shit to me you see
Straight up racist that sucker was
Simple and plain
Mother fuck him and John Wayne
Cause I'm Black and I'm proud
I'm ready and hyped plus I'm amped
Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps
Sample a look back you look and find
Nothing but rednecks for 400 years if you check
Don't worry be happy
Was a number one jam
Damn if I say it you can slap me right here
(Get it) lets get this party started right
Right on, c'mon
What we got to say
Power to the people no delay
To make everybody see
In order to fight the powers that be
(Fight the Power)
I am using English more fully than you. If I write in the English of an educated man, where's the harm in you reading educated English, hm? I don't imagine there's a downside.
French is only one of my languages. I was sufficiently educated to have some.
In the future, never ask me if I'll let you be a stupe, okay? I always answer "Don't you fucking dare." I don't allow stupid, and I disparage those that do.
Using English more fully has very little to do with actual communication. So what. As for harm, the harm is to the success of the communication. Talk or write all you want, if you're unable to get your ideas across and to understand the ideas of those talking and writing to you, your communication has been harmed. That is the downside.
As for your permission for another person's thoughts and actions and behaviors, when you say shit like "I won't allow it", you just crack me up. The complete ridiculousness of such hubris makes most of the rest of what you say equally unbelievable.
Oh noes, I done gone 'n' showed mah lak of intelijuns.
Doan wurry, we is give y'awl a edumacashun.
I can haz ejuhmuhkayshun?
That's why he digs the cellar...
and can handle a blade...
and is so trenchant in his beliefs ...
anacoluthia \an-uh-kuh-LOO-thee-uh\, noun:
Lack of grammatical sequence or coherence, esp. in a sentence.
Wait, You know Anna Coluthia? She was my high school sweetheart.
Gee ! You knew Ann Coulter as a kid !
Using English more fully has very little to do with actual communication. So what. As for harm, the harm is to the success of the communication. Talk or write all you want, if you're unable to get your ideas across and to understand the ideas of those talking and writing to you, your communication has been harmed. That is the downside.
As for your permission for another person's thoughts and actions and behaviors, when you say shit like "I won't allow it", you just crack me up. The complete ridiculousness of such hubris makes most of the rest of what you say equally unbelievable.
I will not allow you to be stupid. Stupid people cannot function as people should function. V, you are being a shmuck. I do not dumb down for you, for UT, for God Almighty. That is simply too far beneath me. If it is not beneath you, all I can say is your intellectual standards aren't high enough.
Read good writing; think smart thoughts. The man who complains at this has no part with me. Do not beg me to descend to whatever level of mediocrity
you find comfortable. It is too cramped for me.
That's very smart, and not at all wise.
To his credit, he starts off forbidding behavior of someone who live thousands of miles away, and then a bit later he admits that all he can really do is say their standards are too low. So he does show awareness of his impotence.
UG is impotent? Can he get it up?
That's very smart, and not at all wise.
It is not wise to accept the too-cramped, either. Too limiting.
And too-limited seems something you'd like for me.
Shame on you, then.
Rise to my level even if you don't or can't believe. You will like it here.
Need I Say Any Thing in this Thread ??
UG, You remind me of a homeless beggar who believes he has more freedom than the average Joe because he has no mortgage and no employer. I'm glad you enjoy your posts.
Need I Say Any Thing in this Thread ??
nope. little debate that yer gramer is afuckingtrocious or that you're far more understandable and well liked the UGh.
zippy's grammar is fine. He just writes with an accent.
zippy's grammar is fine. He just writes with an accent.
HA HA !!
Gotz to lurve the Celler !!!!
UG, You remind me of a homeless beggar who believes he has more freedom than the average Joe because he has no mortgage and no employer. I'm glad you enjoy your posts.
Welllllll. Pissy tonight, aren't we? Looking for excuses, are we? Who searches for excuses?
"Come, my songs, let us sing of perfection; we shall get ourselves rather disliked." -- Pound
zippy's grammar is fine. He just writes with an accent.
:)
That's very smart, and not at all wise.
Excuse me... did you mean to say "Bill Clinton won the Bosnian War "?
Hey I was trying to do a little research on some past US engagements. Does anyone here know by chance who won the war in Bosnia?
wut r we talkin' bout.
tawkin n ritin goodly
And now for something completely different...
a very effective teaching method !
Oh, I don't know... I think it depends on what kind of strippers you want.
And now for something completely different...
I really like that one!
I don't criticise.
Exactly. And at the risk of belaboring the obvious, "criticize" is the American spelling. :) Or, shall I say, belabouring the obvious? :3eye:
To correct a year-old misunderstanding, I put criticise in bold for emphasis in reading. It should have been in italics of course. I was saying that yes I noticed errors and yes they bugged me, but if I responded it was not my intention to be
critical.
Any.
Way.
Sorry.
I didn't know it was called an Oxford comma.
I was taught to write without it though.
There are many ambiguous sentences in written English.
I once read the sentence "After finishing school, x went on to pursue a career in..." and thought "Hang on, I thought only rich girls went to finishing school? Is that a deliberate joke?"
Er, no. The sentence made perfect sense but I'd read something else into it.
Sun, I have no frigging clue. I repeatedly dropped out of HS English Language classes and opted for public speaking, and competitive speech classes. Me: Not strong on gramer and spelling but I can stand in front of a crowd of 300 and tell you what I think about issues, in person. I taught graduate level adult education for 6 years as adjunct faculty with the Univ of Texas in a clinical setting. I am not very strong on paper (or XX's and 00's as most of you know).
My Nephew, who just went to Austria for Grad School, posted it on his FB page and I thought others might get a kick out of it. Funny. That is all.....
I didn't know it was called an Oxford comma.
I was taught to write without it though.
The Oxford comma (I never knew it has a name!) was introduced around the early 90's. When we were learning how to write, we weren't supposed to put a comma before the word
'and.' From what I heard, we had lawyers to thank for the grammar change. They needed that extra comma to make things clearer in legal documents.
Strunk and White calls for a comma before the 'and' in a list.
Language is always in flux.
English in particular.
Split infinitives and starting a sentence with a connective are fads of fashion. In that sense I think I'd apply the rule of understanding.
Using the wrong tense or homonym I find more jarring.
Don't break down the fourth wall unintentionally.
I heard someone say that the comma was dropped by newspapers, to save space in their print. I don't know if this is true.
I heard someone say that the comma was dropped by newspapers, to save space in their print. I don't know if this is true.
No, no, it was to save pixels on yon internet thingy, they're all being used for porn now probably, I think.
IMHO, the poster is wrong.
"... the strippers, JFK and Stalin" is a list of three items of equal grammatical importance. This describes the first picture.
"... the strippers JFK and Stalin" or "... the strippers: JFK and Stalin" would create a parallel structure where "strippers" modifies both "JFK" and "Stalin". This describes the second picture.
"... the strippers, JFK, and Stalin" has a redundant comma. The 'here comes the next item' function of a comma is served by the 'here comes the final item' function of "and".
You don't write "I invited JFK, and Stalin." do you?
And by not writing Oxford commas for ten years I saved almost enough time to write this post. :D
IMHO, the poster is wrong.
"... the strippers, JFK and Stalin" is a list of three items of equal grammatical importance. This describes the first picture.
"... the strippers JFK and Stalin" or "... the strippers: JFK and Stalin" would create a parallel structure where "strippers" modifies both "JFK" and "Stalin". This describes the second picture.
"... the strippers, JFK, and Stalin" has a redundant comma. The 'here comes the next item' function of a comma is served by the 'here comes the final item' function of "and".
You don't write "I invited JFK, and Stalin." do you?
And by not writing Oxford commas for ten years I saved almost enough time to write this post. :D
Do you guys have Strunk and White down under? In a list there is always a comma between the next to last item and the and.
scuse me, but don't comma's look this this : ' Down under? Maybe that's why they abu'se apostophe's 'so much?
In that case, sire, your Strunk and White are a pair of colonial upstarts who are, frankly, wrong. :p
Sorry, that should be Strunk, and White.
Sorry, I forgot to say "in a list of three or more items."
And I noticed your repeated use of the parenthetic comma. Very nice indeed.
[COLOR="LemonChiffon"].[/COLOR]
:) See even the "experts" disagree...
The Oxford comma (I never knew it has a name!) was introduced around the early 90's. When we were learning how to write, we weren't supposed to put a comma before the word 'and.' From what I heard, we had lawyers to thank for the grammar change. They needed that extra comma to make things clearer in legal documents.
The Oxford comma (?) has been around much longer than the early 90's. It was taught as an optional use of the comma when I was in high school back in the 60's.
