The Grapes Must Suffer.

I don't know if this was known by the contemporaries of Jesus or Buddha, or the men who amassed the writing attributed to these figures, but I think it would have been quite an apt parable for their teachings that the grapes on the vine must suffer (in poor soil) in order to produce complex flavors.

As I thought of this, I thought of those whose great suffering produces great products of beauty. Here is a video of a man who slowly killed himself, with drugs. Along the way, he was able to do things such as this performance. This vocal performance gives me chills every time I listen to it. It may not be your cup of tea, but I believe that this is real emotion. He makes me feel it. To me, that qualifies this as artistic achievement on a high level.

[YOUTUBE]l9jX1KAKp78&start=38[/YOUTUBE]

The following may not be the kind of lesson we would be comfortable teaching our children, but I propose that those who have plumbed the depths of suffering are able to communicate a deep level of human feeling that even those among us who may only be (currently) experiencing minor emotional discomfort are able to identify with. I believe that some artists of American "Blues" music found this to be a necessary condition. It strikes me that Jesus and Buddha may have agreed with them, and this is an attractive idea to me.

Maybe I've suffered too much in my life, and developoed some strange coping mechanisms. Must the grapes on the vine suffer, in order to produce complex flavors? Is this the opposite of sour grapes, i.e. since you expect the grapes to be sour, you tell yourself you like them that way? Or, is this what the great teachers were talking about?

additionally, grapes is a euphemism for the male gonads. I don't want mine to suffer any more than is absolutely necessary. But I agree, Flint.. Big Pain forces you to shut down and release your identification with your thinking mind. This makes way for true creativity to come to the front.

I heard Adam from Counting Crows say he can only write good music when he is depressed or heartbroken in his interview w/ Howard Stern.

That's exactly who I just thought of (Counting Crowes)! I heard a song by them last night and was quickly reminded of how soulful and fantastic they are.

It's not just music. One of my favorite comedians was Richard Jeni who committed suicide a few years back.

Go down a list of funny men and women and you will find suicide, overdose, and various addictions.

Is comedic talent a well developed coping mechanism for depressed individuals that eventually breaks down? Are celebrity comedians only as screwed up as other celebrities?

richlevy;675115 wrote:

It's not just music.

I'm reading Confederacy of Dunces. The author killed himself. He was posthumously awarded the Pulitzer Prize

Apparently, at some point, I'm going to be an amazingly successful artist.

richlevy;675115 wrote:

It's not just music.

Hemingway blew his brains out. Van Gogh cut off his ear. Hasselhof ate that burger.

Gravdigr;675174 wrote:

Apparently, at some point, I'm going to be an amazingly successful artist.

:)

What do you do if you suffer and you're a shitty artist? Or it's all for naught? Or what?

What if you really fookin' suffer and you end up being the Diet Coke of art?

not everyone is Poe or Plath or Woolf.

But too many believe they are not, only because they've not suffered enough. They believe when they've suffered enough they'll have an epiphany, suddenly the path to success and recognition will be clear.

Better than admitting they have no talent, I guess.

Andy Warhol comes to mind.

Woody Allen for me. I never liked nor got his "humor"

Brianna;675224 wrote:

What if you really fookin' suffer and you end up being the Diet Coke of art?

Or worse yet, the New Coke of art.

I can remember when Woody Allen was funny.
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Mile-to-school-through-the-snow-barefoot UG

That time never existed

I doubt that Buddha would have agreed. His thinking was more that suffering, although a normal part of human life, can be avoided by letting go of attachments.

Likewise, I think Jesus would have said that great human attributes are produced by righteousness and universal love, not some kind of suffering.

However, there are many cases that seem to illustrate your point. IMHO, great art is something that causes an emotional reaction in the viewer - more, that it causes the viewer to empathise with the artist. If the artist isn't feeling something and expressing it as the create, there is nothing to empathise with, and all they're doing is graphic design.
However, the emotion doesn't have to be pain or misery. Joy, love, hope etc will do, as well as fear, despair, sadness. Try playing Beethoven's 9th (Ode to Joy) at top volume on your stereo and tell me that isn't great.

UG, one more comment like that and you're going in a home. :p:

Brianna;675224 wrote:

:)

What if you really fookin' suffer and you end up being the Diet Coke of art?

Then, at least, you'll be rich.

Urbane Guerrilla;675487 wrote:

I can remember when Woody Allen was funny.

It's more an intelligent humor. Morons don't get such lines as:

My grammy never gave gifts. She was too busy getting raped by Cossacks.

Allan: What are you doing Saturday night?
Museum Girl: Committing suicide.
Allan: What about Friday night?

High Macha Of Rashpur: It is written, "he who makes the best egg salad shall rule over heaven and earth." Don't ask me why egg salad - I've got enough aggravation.

I think people should mate for life, like pigeons or Catholics.

The government is unresponsive to the needs of the little man. Under 5'7", it is impossible to get your congressman on the phone.


Yeah, it's no Adam Sandler, but it's good stuff. :lol:

[COLOR="White"]classic prolly hates jews, too[/COLOR]

I am a grape
I am an island.