The Power of Now
a
Book by Echart Tolle
I'm reading this, and I can tell already that as soon as I finish, I'll be rereading it. I've hit several parts that I want to spend more time contemplating.
The concept of a Pain Body was very interesting....
This accumulated pain is a negative energy field that occupies your body and mind. If you look on it as an invisible entity in its own right, you are getting qute close to the truth. It's the emotional pain body. It has two modes of being: dormant and active....
....The pain body wants to survive, just like every other entity in existance, and it can only survive if it gets you to unconsciously identify with it. It can then rise up, take you over, "become you," and live through you. It needs to get its "food" through you. It will feed on any experience that resonates with its own kind of energy, anything that creates further pain in whatever form: anger, destructiveness, hatred, grief, emotional drama, violence, and even illness.
So the pain body, when it has taken you over, will create a situation in your life that refects back its own energy frequency for it to feed on. Pain can only feed on pain. Pain cannot feed on joy. It finds it quite indigestible.
Once the pain body has taken you over, you want more pain. You become a victim or a perpetrator. You want to inflict pain, or you want to suffer pain, or both. There isen't really much difference between the two. You are not conscious of this, of course, and will vehemently claim that you do not want pain. But look closely and you will that your thinking and behavior are designed to keep the pain going, for yourself and others.
If you were truly conscious of it, the pattern would disolve, for to want more pain os insanity, and nobody is conscioulsy insane.
there are other very salient points in the book, and although it's a little weird... I think it's changing the way I see myself a little bit.
Oh man... that is a wonderful book!! I've bought 5 copies and am always giving them away and findmyself buying another. That is awesome LJ!
You might also want to check out The Peaceful Warrior by Dan Millman.
meant to tell you... my mom happened to have a copy of Loving What is. So that's on my list too. I'm finding out that there is a whole lot of shit I wasn't paying attention to, and a whole lot more stuff available to learn about.
A wise man knows how little he knows ;-). I hope the book is as helpful for you as it was for me.
I just started reading a book called Women, Food and God by Greenen Roth and despite Women being in the title I can see how it would be valuable for anyone. It isn't a Christian self help book... the term "God" is used in a much broader sense. It talks about how what we put on our plates is key to our view on spirituality, ourselves... etc and key to identifying and healing whatever it is that causes us to eat (you could translate that into any distructive behavior as she points out) when we aren't hungry. It is facinating. I'm only about a 1/3 of the way through, but I have to recomend it as well... if you can get past the title.
I've noticed before that when I feel sad or depressed, or jealous, or grief that I somehow want to continue. I don't want to be cheered up. I don't want to be mollified.
I always thought that maybe I had some defect that made me want to punish myself for something. Or some invisible compulsion that caused me to create situations that caused me to be in trouble.
Giving it a 'body' as Tolle does makes it possible to see it as separate from myself, and thus changeable. If it's not actually a part of me, then it's not me. It's just something I do. I can fix that when I notice myself doing it. Tolle promotes constant presence to watch for it. I'm not even close to that at this point... but I have been able, lately, to recognize when I'm allowing my current situation to spin my emotions up into knots. It's not easy, but if I concentrate, and breathe deeply for a few moments, I can bring myself out of the spiral of remorse for the past, and dread of the future... and dig my claws into the present moment. It's getting me through the day, at least.
I've spoken about something like it regarding anger to my son. When he gets mad, it takes over. The anger has control, and he gets lost in it. I can see it when it happens. I've told him to be aware of it... You never know if it's sticking, with a kid, but I hope it does, because this feels true to me.
Here's something to watch, instead of read. Take it with a grain of salt, it brings up interesting things to contemplate:
"What The Bleep Do We Know?"
I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on the movie's message.
Here's a clip about addiction:
[YOUTUBE]6BkI8LD24y0[/YOUTUBE]
What do you mean by pain, LJ?
We need an operational definition.
In his book, Tolle defines it as any kind of negative emotion, or situation. Say....addiction...or jealousy.....
If you enjoy pain, then it isn't negative.
If it isn't negative, then it isn't pain.
If it isn't pain, then you can't enjoy it.
It's very circular.
the point he makes is that the pain takes on it's own awareness, and controls you. the pain enjoys the pain. you don't.
the point he makes is that the pain takes on it's own awareness, and controls you. the pain enjoys the pain. you don't.
Yeah, that's essentially the point of that clip, except they throw a physiological spin on it: You become addicted to the neuro-chemicals produced by whatever mind state you are habitually in.
The more of the chemicals you produce, the more receptor sites are created...
Giving it a 'body' as Tolle does makes it possible to see it as separate from myself, and thus changeable. If it's not actually a part of me, then it's not me. It's just something I do. I can fix that when I notice myself doing it. Tolle promotes constant presence to watch for it.
Check out Russ Harris who does mindfulness stuff-works well for separating stuff out.
I don't know a lot about it, but mindfulness seems to be based on Vipassana meditation. I've read some stuff ("Monsoon Rains and Icicle Drops" + "Thirty Something and Over it") about 10 day workshops in Europe and Australia. From what I can work out, on the very limited research I've done, the mindfulness stuff seems like the 'lite' version of Vipassana, but if the thought of 10 straight days of meditation seems impossible, then mindfulness might be the way to build up the skill before going for the 10 day sink or swim workshop.
LJ if you want to watch What the Bleep do We Know... I think I still have a copy somewhere... I'd be happy to send it... it is a bit hokey at times, but makes some useful points. Let me know and I'll pop it in the mail to you.
just listen. don't stare at the screen.
[youtube]QjoLXKx4jVM[/youtube]
[youtube]2N4XNj97zWY[/youtube]
[youtube]RFhCi0ygOhU[/youtube]
[youtube]TubJqdN_USg[/youtube]
[YOUTUBE]9MsKl5sBSW8[/YOUTUBE]
this is part 2, but the first 3/4 of part 1 is a some old lady with a guitar, and a brief intro. He begins this clip talking about HOW to be present at the venue he is speaking in.
hang in there, it takes him a while to get going...
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]I found the text version of[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000099][FONT=Arial]The Power of Now[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial] on pfd[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/COLOR]
Personal Flotation Device?
LJ, you amaze me, sometimes. in a good way.
He has a wonderful way with free association, doesn't he.
Edit: Oops, I thought you meant HLJ.
He has a wonderful way with free association, doesn't he.
Edit: Oops, I thought you meant HLJ.
I've got the monopoly on that. I call it linking.:D
He hurts my pain body.
Just kidding.
I browsed his online book once. He makes some good points. I am glad he is helping you.
He really has a good synthesis of a lot of spiritual thought. I liked this especially:
The reason why some people love to engage in dangerous activities, such as mountain climbing, car racing, and so on, although they may not be aware of it, is that it forces them into the Now -- that intensely alive state that is free of time, free of problems, free of thinking, free of the burden of the personality.
This really resonates with me. I've often felt compelled to escape into this sort of activity. When you find the flow there is such quietude. I sometimes wondered if I was somehow self-destructive but this is a better interpretation. Downhill skiing, mountain biking, and fencing have all provided unmeasured time of absolute stillness. It can also be found putting a chisel to wood or sitting, but that is much much harder. This is the peace we find without a church growing our "pain body". He may be a kook but he is a kook for the good.
Salvation is not elsewhere in place or time. It is here and now.
[COLOR=DarkRed]What does that statement mean, "salvation is here and now"? I don't understand it. I don't even know what salvation means.
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Most people pursue physical pleasures or various forms of psychological gratification because they believe that those things will make them happy or free them from a feeling of fear or lack. Happiness may be perceived as a heightened sense of aliveness attained through physical pleasure, or a more secure and more complete sense of self attained through some form of psychological gratification. This is the search for salvation from a state of unsatisfactoriness or insufficiency. Invariably, any satisfaction that they obtain is short-lived, so the condition of satisfaction or fulfillment is usually projected once again onto an imaginary point away from the here and now. "When I obtain this or am free of that - then I will be okay." This is the unconscious mind-set that creates the illusion of salvation in the future.
True salvation is fulfillment, peace, life in all its fullness. It is to be who you are, to feel within you the good that has no opposite, the joy of Being that depends on nothing outside itself. It is felt not as a passing experience but as an abiding presence. In theistic language, it is to "know God" - not as something outside you but as your own innermost essence. True salvation is to know yourself as an inseparable part of the timeless and formless One Life from which all that exists derives its being.
True salvation is a state of freedom - from fear, from suffering, from a perceived state of lack and insufficiency and therefore from all wanting, needing, grasping, and clinging. It is freedom from compulsive thinking, from negativity, and above all from past and future as a psychological need. Your mind is telling you that you cannot get there from here. Something needs to happen, or you need to become this or that before you can be free and fulfilled. It is saying, in fact, that you need time - that you need to find, sort out, do, achieve, acquire, become, or understand something before you can be free or complete. You see time as the means to salvation, whereas in truth it is the greatest obstacle to salvation. You think that you can't get there from where and who you are at this moment because you are not yet complete or good enough, but the truth is that here and now is the only point from where you can get there. You "get' there by realizing that you are there already. You find God the moment you realize that you don't need to seek God. So there is no only way to salvation: Any condition can be used, but no particular condition is needed. However, there is only one point of access: the Now.
END THE DELUSION OF TIME
It seems almost impossible to disidentify from the mind. We are all immersed in it. How do you teach a fish to fly?
Here is the key. End the delusion of time. Time and mind are inseparable. Remove time from the mind and it stops - unless you choose to use it.
To be identified with your mind is to be trapped in time: the compulsion to live almost exclusively through memory and anticipation. This creates an endless preoccupation with past and future and an unwillingness to honor and acknowledge the present moment and allow it to be. The compulsion arises because the past gives you an identity and the future holds the promise of salvation, of fulfillment in whatever form. Both are illusions.
But without a sense of time, how would we function in this world? There would be no goals to strive toward anymore. I wouldn't even know who I am, because my past makes me who I am today. I think time is something very precious, and we need to learn to use it wisely rather than waste it.
Time isn't precious at all, because it is an illusion. What you perceive as precious is not time but the one point that is out of time: the Now. That is precious indeed. The more you are focused on time - past and future - the more you miss the Now, the most precious thing there is.
Why is it the most precious thing? Firstly, because it is the only thing. It's all there is. The eternal present is the space within which your whole life unfolds, the one factor that remains constant. Life is now. There was never a time when your life was not now, nor will there ever be. Secondly, the Now is the only point that can take you beyond the limited confines of the mind. It is your only point of access into the timeless and formless realm of Being.
§
NOTHING EXISTS OUTSIDE THE NOW
'Aren't past and future just as real, sometimes even more real, than the present? After all, the past determines who we are, as well as how we perceive and behave in the present. And our future goals determine which actions we take in the present.'
You haven't yet grasped the essence of what I am saying because you are trying to understand it mentally. The mind cannot understand this. Only you can. Please just listen.
Have you ever experienced, done, thought, or felt anything outside the Now? Do you think you ever will? Is it possible for anything to happen or be outside the Now? The answer is obvious, is it not?
Nothing ever happened in the past; it happened in the Now. Nothing will ever happen in the future; it will happen in the Now. What you think of as the past is a memory trace, stored in the mind, of a former Now. When you remember the past, you reactivate a memory trace - and you do so now. The future is an imagined Now, a projection of the mind. When the future comes, it comes as the Now. When you think about the future, you do it now. Past and future obviously have no reality of their own. Just as the moon has no light of its own, but can only reflect the light of the sun, so are past and future only pale reflections of the light, power, and reality of the eternal present. Their reality is "borrowed" from the Now.
The essence of what I am saying here cannot be understood by the mind. The moment you grasp it, there is a shift in consciousness from mind to Being, from time to presence. Suddenly, everything feels alive, radiates energy, emanates Being.
The now is perfectly fine for the hermit, but being aware of time is necessary to mesh with others, with society. Who hasn't said I was so intrigued/entertained/engrossed I lost track of time. Fun for you but annoying to people relying on you, or to yourself if there's other things you want to accomplish.
OK, all that was the train of though responding to the word Time.
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The word Now, as live in the now, do it now, is plastic, always in context.
Don't wait until you're 60 to start saving for retirement, do it now.
If we don't leave now, we'll be late for the curtain.
Rather than trimming those bushes in the fall, I should do it now.
Those are three distinctly different nows, and that muddies the issue.
They are not different. All 3 examples you gave could be stated substituting the word, immediately.
Of course you will leave now. All action takes place now. You may be misaligned with clock time, and be early or late to a meeting that was planned for a particular time, but when you arrive, it will be now.
Which speaks to the first section of your reply. Clock time is a useful thing. It's different than psychological time. I have to leave here at 10 am today to be on time. But if I sat here imagining what it will be like to get ready and go the whole time, then I would be missing.... Not be present... In all that now between.
Feel me?
You can call the present, now, but you're severely limiting your ability to communicate accurately in English. In the three examples I gave the word now represents three different spans of the future to any normal(or slightly warped) person. I believe I understand the concept, but trying to communicate it using now is like George Washington coming in a time machine and telling everyone he's gay.
How could the word now represent a span of time in the future? In all 3 examples, the now was the beginning of the task. It's just 3 different lengths of time from that point forward.
Maybe re read what I posted from the book where he talks about nothing ever happening in the future.
Now is now. The eternal present.
Only considering now is like being glued to your phone. Then you get run over by a bus, or walk off a pier. It's abdicating any and all responsibility for what happens to you. Replacing "I should have seen that coming" with "Shit happens".
Him living in the Now could be advantagious for us, like:
What? You say today's your birthday! If you had been thinking ahead, I would've known sooner to get you a birthday present. But it's too late NOW! :p:
Of course you don't live ONLY in the moment. Just that your brain is a tool. It's not WHO you are.
You don't hold a hammer in your hand all day just in case you encounter a nail. So why is your brain always yapping away? Put it the fuck down when you don't need it.
You need to visualize the future in order to plan. You need to remember the past in order to learn. But you absolutely cannot live in either place. You're alive NOW. So when you've made your plan, set it gently aside and give your full attention to the task at hand. Repeat until the plan has come to fruition.
The point is to silence the narrative of thoughts that constantly run through your mind, taking your attention away from what you are doing.
That's what I'm trying to do. That helps me.
It's not easy. You have to catch yourself all day long. Even folding laundry, or mowing the lawn... Your mind races. Notice. Pay attention to what you're doing.
I always figured those mind numbing jobs like mowing the lawn were an opportunity to think about other things... like the babe in the house. ;)
They are just that. And I'm suggesting that when your attention is off (in the future) with the babe in the house, you're missing the moment you're in. Which one is real?
I'm mowing the yard when there's a babe in the house?!
:smack:
Making music forces you into the now
I enjoy doing pit bands for musicals. For two hours, every note is planned out, and so from the first note you play, your mind is sharply focused on that. The only thought permitted is, what note do I play next, and when exactly do I play it. (After 1/32nd of a beat, or do I get to wait longer?)
Is this part of the point of meditation? To put yourself into that state, without depending on giving your brain another task to accomplish
They are just that. And I'm suggesting that when your attention is off (in the future) with the babe in the house, you're missing the moment you're in. Which one is real?
After 40 years of spending a half dozen hours every week mowing the lawn, I'd rather be anywhere else. Why suffer through it when I can make it more pleasurable in my head? If I'm enjoying what I'm doing, or at least getting some satisfaction from it, I have no trouble staying in the moment. I doubt you had any trouble paying attention building your bike.
Perhaps lawn mowing was not the best choice for illustration because I hate it with an irrational pasion. I can see where multi-tasking can make things more work than pleasure by having to concentrate on not putting the cookie sheet in the washer, laundry in the crib, or the baby in the oven.
Making music forces you into the now
I enjoy doing pit bands for musicals. For two hours, every note is planned out, and so from the first note you play, your mind is sharply focused on that. The only thought permitted is, what note do I play next, and when exactly do I play it. (After 1/32nd of a beat, or do I get to wait longer?)
Is this part of the point of meditation? To put yourself into that state, without depending on giving your brain another task to accomplish
This is insight. Thank you.
I don't really know if I'd call it meditation, ute. What you describe sounds like you're just busy.
Meditation... As I understand it, is to practice simply quieting the mind. To not think in words for a time. It's very difficult at first.
You're not spaced out thinking about how beautiful a flower is, you're actually very alert. When no thoughts are speaking in your head, your other senses deliver a lot more information.
Seeing a flower without trying to name it, or judge it's beauty relative to other flowers (substitute any object). Trying not to see your memory of what that object is, but to be aware of it and the space it takes in the space near you. Feel it, don't interpret it. Hard to put words about not using words together.
The focus on the present moment is just an entry point to that state. Like being a cat, watching a mouse hole. And it really doesn't inhibit your ability to be engaged in your activity. But practicing doing it helps to alert you to your mind or ego taking over in daily life.
Like, when you get mad at someone, and you start imagining what you're going to say to them to make them see their error. You start holding the conversation, playing both roles, in your head. You can get pretty far from the reality of the situation that way.
But if you've practiced being present, it's easier to catch yourself enjoying that inner argument, and recognizing that it's your egoic mind flexing it's muscles, not your being. That being is made of the same things as the opponent, and you can accept that they DID say that thing that angered you and not get twisted up wishing they hadn't or imagining what they'll say next. You can see why it angered you and that you are not the anger, so coming back to your calm demeanor is much easier. You don't give the opponent a wall to smash their anger against, so the confrontation ends immediately.
Making music forces you into the now
I enjoy doing pit bands for musicals. For two hours, every note is planned out, and so from the first note you play, your mind is sharply focused on that. The only thought permitted is, what note do I play next, and when exactly do I play it. (After 1/32nd of a beat, or do I get to wait longer?)
Is this part of the point of meditation? To put yourself into that state, without depending on giving your brain another task to accomplish
This is why going to any music practice is a restorative action for me. All other thoughts and feelings are put away for the duration of the practice.
I disagree with LJ that it is another form of busyness because UT here is having to put the immersion into the now that is a music practice (or performance) into words, just like LJ is trying to describe meditation.
Sent by magick
It's not exactly like being busy! There is something about the timing aspect of it, and the fact that you're working with other people. Every BEAT forces you into the current time.
I'm singing now, and singing and playing bass is an amazing challenge. I feel like my brain is entirely taken up by it; and I have to reach some sort of spiritual other world, where I can access both things at once.
Try meditating in the morning. You may find that it enhances that ability. Like exercising your being. Music is guttural. You feel it more than think it. Dancing is the same. If you think, you slip.
This is why going to any music practice is a restorative action for me. All other thoughts and feelings are put away for the duration of the practice.
I disagree with LJ that it is another form of busyness because UT here is having to put the immersion into the now that is a music practice (or performance) into words, just like LJ is trying to describe meditation.
Sent by magick
Sounds right. I was thinking he said that his mind was so active concentrating in each note, it was simply occupied. His second explanation clarified a bit more.
Trying to force you mind to idle, if not stop, is an unnatural experience, that only happens normally when you die. Even sleeping, or in a coma, your brain is cooking, often full tilt boogie.
It's not exactly like being busy! There is something about the timing aspect of it, and the fact that you're working with other people. Every BEAT forces you into the current time.
Yes, this.
I'm singing now, and singing and playing bass is an amazing challenge. I feel like my brain is entirely taken up by it; and I have to reach some sort of spiritual other world, where I can access both things at once.
Kudos, man!
I believe you guys are describing the flow state. I've entered it when mountain biking, long ago building the timber frame, and very rarely when I used to fence. I can only dream of this kind of immersion in music, it must be transcendent. It's especially interesting in music because the minds perception of time passing is altered but timing is perfected.
Trying to force you mind to idle, if not stop, is an unnatural experience, that only happens normally when you die. Even sleeping, or in a coma, your brain is cooking, often full tilt boogie.
It's not unnatural, just unfamiliar. The vast majority of people never stop thinking and imagining. That's normal. It's also insane.
To be constantly talked to from inside your own head. If you were to vocalize all of your thoughts... Or if everyone could hear the voice in your head, you'd get locked up for your own protection. To have the ability to put the voice on pause and give yourself a moment's peace is a skill that you have to practice. But first you have to want to. Your ego... The person you present to the world and yourself resists it. Comes up with a lot of reasons why it's a bad idea to not think. Once you get a real taste, I promise you'll want another. And it gets easier to do the more you try.
You are challenging these things I say in this thread. I expect that it's because it doesn't ring true for you. Or you're doing me the favor of playing the straight man because you're a really really good guy and your thoughts run deep. I prefer to believe the latter. And thank you, keep arguing.
I'm not identified with this idea to the point where if I'm proven wrong, I will feel defeated or diminished. This is about personal experience, so all we can really do is share our own biased perceptions with each other and try to convey the feeling using limiting words and mental imagery.
[youtube]-ptJ8UCbDGQ[/youtube]
...singing and playing bass is an amazing challenge...
Musical buddy says that's the hardest thing he does as a musician. He's usually rhythm and lead singer. He says bass and singing lead is much harder for him.
[youtube]VvBzsUesQ68[/youtube]
bass and singing lead is much harder
Now add to that, calculating the low harmony on the fly!
It's amazing. And the guys ask me to do harmonies on early Beatles, but no way. I can't play something like "Day Tripper" and sing harmony at the same time. The rhythm of bass makes it really wildly hard to do, depending on the song. Paul is a stone-cold goddamn genius.
I now sing lead on "Black Water" and it is okay because the bass part is simple. And at times it doesn't even happen, on the intro and the a capella section.
Now add to that, calculating the low harmony on the fly!
It's amazing. And the guys ask me to do harmonies on early Beatles, but no way. I can't play something like "Day Tripper" and sing harmony at the same time. The rhythm of bass makes it really wildly hard to do, depending on the song. Paul is a stone-cold goddamn genius.
I now sing lead on "Black Water" and it is okay because the bass part is simple. And at times it doesn't even happen, on the intro and the a capella section.
WTG UT!
Sent by magick
I always marveled at Jimi Hendrix. He played intricate leads and sang at the same time. Probably akin to your experience with the bass line.
You must need two minds to do that. One to remember the words, and one to communicate the music through the instrument.
I posit that the thinking mind, or ego, handles the singing, while the being self generates the music.
Both minds are useful. The thinking mind is just much more dominant in most people. You may have found your entry point into inner peace.
I'm sharing all this here, risking ridicule (because I know you're all good folks and my friends... So not much of a risk) in the hope that this idea will spread into your lives and give you the sense of calm I have these recent days. And for myself to refer back to when it slips away from me again. I started this thread 9 years ago. In my last crisis.
Good to know it's there when I need it, and the overreaching message has stayed with me in my approach to life and it's challenges.... But I've been lax in exercising. Both in mind and body.
Shit happens. I forgive me. I have it in focus now. I'm down about 35 lbs and that's a start.
Next thing is to quit smoking.
...risking ridicule...So not much of a risk...
[SIZE="1"]Something something[/SIZE]:mock:
[SIZE="1"]Something somehting[/SIZE]:nadkick:
:p::p::p:
[youtube]AlPmSim6vLQ[/youtube]
If it works for you fine and dandy, but I think you're stepping under an umbrella and claiming it stopped raining.
I just don't think you're doing what you think you're doing, and I'm sure an EEG would prove me right.
If you focus intently on something with full concentration like I talked about before, the time flies by and you block out all thoughts and inputs that don't concern what you're focused on. That's why you don't notice Mom walk in during an orgasm.
I can see it being a handy tool when you have too many things going on at once and want to concentrate your thoughts on just one. But if you could shut everything down it's like hiding in the bathroom with three kids waiting outside the door. When you come out your back where you started, and if you don't come out you're a vegetable.
I'm thinking on the page here so feel free to correct...
A lot of work has been done on that. We're talking about at least two different states. If I remember correctly, Tolle is focused more on the narrative in our heads. We don't suppress that voice, we acknowledge it, accept it, and stop playing with it. It's that obsessive play with unproductive thoughts where pain resides. I'd call it a meditative state that we carry into the active world. It is still raining but we don't obsess about it.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100319210631.htm
A new study suggests that nondirective meditation yields more marked changes in electrical brain wave activity associated with wakeful, relaxed attention than just resting without any specific mental technique.
The other state is flow, which is where Toad is when he is laying down that sweet bass line. This is a fully activated task focused brain.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-playing-field/201402/flow-states-and-creativity
Technically, flow is defined as an “optimal state of consciousness where we feel our best and perform our best.” It’s also a strange state of consciousness. In flow, concentration becomes so laser-focused that everything else falls away. Action and awareness merge. Our sense of self and our sense of self consciousness completely disappear. Time dilates—meaning it slows down (like the freeze frame of a car crash) or speeds up (and five hours pass by in five minutes). And throughout, all aspects of performance are incredibly heightened—and that includes creative performance.
How this all works comes down to neurobiology. Flow is the product of profound changes in standard brain function. In the state, our brainwaves move from the fast-moving beta wave of normal waking consciousness down to the far slower borderline between alpha and theta waves. Alpha is associated with day-dreaming mode—when we can slip from thought to thought without much internal resistance. Theta, meanwhile, only shows up during REM or just before we fall asleep, in that hypnogogic gap where ideas combine in truly radical ways. Since creativity is always recombinatory—the product of novel information bumping into old thoughts to create something startling new—being able to slip between thoughts quickly and combine them wildly enhances creativity at a very fundamental level.That's neat.
Bruce, maybe it was just a poor choice of analogy, but I'm not shielding myself at all. I'm just not mad that I'm wet.
I'm opening myself to the reality and surrendering to it. If I can do something, I'll do it. If I can't, I'll accept it. Like Kung fu. You don't resist the opponent's attack, you yield to it and use his energy against him.
It also may be just that you are thinking that I'm talking about walking around all day in a daze. I'm not. For the vast majority of my day, I'm engaged in activity. I work. A lot. At those times, I'm giving my full attention to that task, that moment.
When I step outside for a smoke, I'm trying not to dwell on past or future. Or being mad about how fucking humid it is. Gah.
A new study suggests that nondirective meditation yields more marked changes in electrical brain wave activity associated with wakeful, relaxed attention than just resting without any specific mental technique.
Yeah, that makes sense rather than taking random incoming you're working hard at keeping shit out.
The other state is flow, which is where Toad is when he is laying down that sweet bass line. This is a fully activated task focused brain.
That part I understand, I've had it happen to me many times. Evidently when it does I make faces, I've had people kid me about that.
It also may be just that you are thinking that I'm talking about walking around all day in a daze. I'm not. For the vast majority of my day, I'm engaged in activity. I work. A lot. At those times, I'm giving my full attention to that task, that moment.
When I step outside for a smoke, I'm trying not to dwell on past or future. Or being mad about how fucking humid it is. Gah.
I'm sure you're never in a daze at work, you're too good at what you do not to be on top of it.
The only thing I was questioning is the process, it's not magic something is actually going on and I think Griff got a handle on it.
When somebody tells me something happens I immediately want to know how/why. That's how I roll, fat people always roll ya know. :blush:
you read about the stages of grief. they lead to acceptance. but each step is some form of resistance to the reality. bargaining, denial, anger, etc. all are resistance.
this just gets ME to the end of the process without spending a lot of time in the other stages. I did do those things for about 2 weeks until I remembered...or was ready to stop suffering.... to pick the book up again.
Part 2 is up
[YOUTUBE]SQmQLWuw9xQ[/YOUTUBE]
That last question and answer... At about 33 min.
He does a pretty good job summarizing the idea of awakening. And the hand trick is new to me. I found that illuminating. All that inner body awareness stuff was a little weird to me the first few times I read this book (s). But now I kind of get that more.
And then it seemed he wrapped it up a sentence or two short of giving us the meaning of life. I've heard that answer in another Q&A and it rang true. Ready? Meaning of life ahead.
Set up :
We are part of the universe. Every element consisting of 30 billion year old carbon. You've heard that before. The universe was very simple at the beginning. Then bang. Since that point, it has been increasing in complexity. The alpha is the singularity of the pre bang and the omega lies in ultimate complexity. He doesn't say any of that, but I've read it elsewhere and agree.
Our purpose, as sentient brings is to bear witness to the existence. I think, therefore I am.
Which is widely accepted as a truth. I think it's a little off... Might be better as, I am aware, therefore I am. You don't need to think to be aware. You do need to be aware to think.
But yeah, the universe wants to be aware of itself. We are it's proof that it exists. That's why we are alive.
[youtube]skFQck_gWT8[/youtube]
Our purpose, as sentient brings is to bear witness to the existence. I think, therefore I am.
Which is widely accepted as a truth. I think it's a little off... Might be better as, I am aware, therefore I am.
Could be a translation issue. A Frenchman, trying to articulate himself in Latin, getting translated into English. According to my vast research reading the first two paragraphs of the wikipedia entry on this, he also wrote "we cannot doubt of our existence while we doubt...."
It's been a long time since PHI 101 but "I think, therefore I am" is at a base level trying to establish a proof that there is truth and that we exist. This is not just a dream world and we can make sense of it. Something like that
Rubin's next move should be bringing together Tolle and Peterson. I wager that will happen and it will be spectacular.
That would be interesting. I'd never heard of Jordan Peterson. I spent some time watching him on a panel in Australia and he seemed pretty sharp. I've just downloaded his 12 rules book, and am listening to his overture.
First impression is that he is a very sophisticated thinker. Complexity of thought espousing simplicity of living. Whereas Tolle espouses minimal thought to create inner calm and thereby simple living... They may agree on the goal, but diverge in method. 12 rules vs 1 rule.
I'll say more once I know Peterson better.
Whew. Listening to a clinical psychologist talk about the hierarchy of lobsters and the status counter in our brain stems is exhausting.
I feel like I'm rowing upstream.
[youtube]VauHIuyPwkM[/youtube]
This could have been the answer to a different question. Elderly folks have a certain peace about them. Have you noticed? Not all of them. Some are nutty in one way or another, but most.
I'm thinking maybe they get that from going through the loss of the self esteem they derived from the abilities or attributes that turned out to be impermanent. So maybe once you are forced to stop identifying with your ego, you can calm the fuck down some. If I could have the wisdom of the elderly while I'm still vital, I'd sign up for that.
I liked the end where he says going through suffering is an easier way of discovering this kind of thing than it is if things are rolling along smoothly.
This could have been the answer to a different question. Elderly folks have a certain peace about them. Have you noticed?
That's because we can kill you, a life sentence is a joke. :mg:
I kind of thought it was because you've realized that it's all bullshit at the end of the day. All these thoughts we think. Mental constructs and opinions. What's really left after that is just being.
Old people reflect on what used to was, and glow with good memories or rage against the injustice of what has been lost.
I feel like I'm rowing upstream.
The guy is large, he is going across a ton of topics... he may be best in video form
From just before 2 minutes in, he presents his most fundamental ideas, which is where he's most Tolle-esque
He presents the yin/yang as chaos/order, and meaning as the place where both exist. "Meaning is not a rational phenomenon. We detect it without being, not with our intellect... which it should guide, rather than follow."
The slides are a little distracting IMO... he's become a much better speaker since this
[youtube]WOgSqHtTtHY[/youtube]
I think the slides round out his meaning quite effectively. Particularly the one where he instructs you to watch yourself as though you don't know much about you.
It may take me some time to get through his book, but I will. It's counterpoint to the simplicity of tolle, so I think it's important that I do. Tolle is easy. Almost too easy. Can it be that simple? In times of crisis, I think yes. But in 6 months when this crisis fades, will it still speak to me? History suggests no. I got on with my life after the divorce had washed over me and I forgot to practice awareness in the moment.
Perhaps..... Um. Maybe I need to train the ego AND the Id to get along.
… Particularly the one where he instructs you to watch yourself as though you don't know much about you. ...
The part of the brain that reacts when we think about friends also reacts when we think about ourselves. The part of the brain that reacts when we think about strangers reacts when we think about our future selves. We see our future selves more as strangers because it's difficult for us to imagine ourselves 10, 20, 30 years from now due to all the variables we know can exist.
So (a needle pulling thread), imagining future you can help you to watch yourself as though you don't know much about you now. The power of future, now.
Ironic isn't it
[SIZE="3"]⸮[/SIZE]Future me is my higher power. I want to make him proud.
[SIZE="3"]A Man Said to the Universe[/SIZE]
By Stephen Crane (1871-1900)
[SIZE="3"]A man said to the universe:
“Sir, I exist!”
“However,” replied the universe,
“The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation.”[/SIZE]
Neil deGrasse Tyson says something very similar.
I'm on rule 4.
Compare yourself to who you were yesterday, not to who someone else is today.
Right now he's discussing past and future. Says almost in passing that the present moment is eternally flawed. That without that assumption, we would never strive to improve. In a previous chapter, he talked about people at the bottom living in the moment out of laziness and contentment with their lousy lot in life... People more likely to indulge in momentary relief of drugs and alcohol because they're not concerned with the consequence, just the immediate relief from their pain.
Sounds like good argument against Tolle's Now.
I think the balance comes when you can get your hands around Tolle's technique, and have the ability to be self aware on the level below all this psychology and ego constructed tendency to win or lose at life, but give the appropriate attention to the real world concerns Peterson is trying to provide guidance for.
Both espouse seeing yourself objectively. Tolle strips it all away by constantly reminding you that the real you is not the mentally constructed collection of life experience, trauma, or kind upbringing, but rather the container that holds it. This makes all the intricate detailed reasoning about why we think like we do irrelevant.
However, most of us will not be motivated to attempt to disassociate with it unless we experience some kind of intense suffering. No sense fleeing the building if it's not on fire.
Even when you do have a fire and need to flee, the fire eventually burns itself out, or is extinguished by your awareness and presence. And then you go back to identifying with this slightly better equipped version of your Self, which now knows how to handle loss or grief or anger or resentment.... But, unless you're going to drop out of your life and spend your days as a guru teaching others to find themselves, you need to moderate the time you spend with an empty head just as you need to watch your thoughts.
Just being aware that your mind is a tool, not who you are.... Really knowing that, which isn't easy or natural feeling... You have to keep a constant watch on your reactions to things.... But just knowing that prevents your mind from using you instead of you using your mind.
I really would like to see these two converse.
Yessir! Peterson is all about Jung, which is all about that last bit - it's "
shadow integration" which is where you learn to see your unconscious inner self and learn to integrate it, work with it, instead of having it control you. I think they would be in agreement about all that.
It would be a great conversation. I think it will happen, now that Tolle is approaching the circle where these talks are taking place.
~
I have been thinking hard about rule 2 "Treat Yourself Like Someone You Are Responsible For Helping", because I do see all the people in my life treating themselves terribly, and I have seen myself treat myself terribly, and I want to understand why. I don't feel like the chapter has answered this for me. My friend Judi not treating her cancer. My J avoiding treating her sleep apnea - she's fallen asleep at the wheel, twice that I know of. My friends who drink every single day. My friend Thom who allowed his mother's death to give himself nothing but self-inflicted pain for two years. Ripley and all the suicidal people. And me, allowing myself to fall down various self-destructive rabbit holes. Why do we hate ourselves so much? Nobody in our lives wants us to do that.
UT, this response is tailored for you:
Sometimes the
experts don't quite give us what we're looking for. It's not for lack of trying, it's just that they may lack the personal experience necessary to address everything that relates. There's a whole other world out there; however, comprised of
advanced amateurs who have the experience you're looking for and, like yourself, have sought out the
experts' frameworks to put it in. I found one that may have done some of the legwork for you.
I think you'll at least find the writing style entertaining and hopefully its content close to what you're looking for. An enticement:
… We all have dreams we’ve failed to live up to, ideals we’ve failed to embody, actions we wish we had or hadn’t done, ways in which we wish we could be different. This is normal. And we all must deal with these parts of ourselves that we don’t exactly like. Some of us deal with it through avoidance — we sleepwalk through life, never making any serious decisions, following others, and avoiding all difficult tasks or confrontations. Some of us deal with it by numbing ourselves with sex or substances or obsession or distraction. Others try to overcompensate by trying to save the world and bring about a utopia and maybe start another World War in the process.
The goal here isn’t to get rid of that self-loathing. The only way to do that would be to remove our consciences and/or become psychopaths. And we don’t want that. ...
A convenience link to an entertaining self-description page by the author. It sounds like you may have some traits in common:
AboutIt's broader than just me man. The question at hand is one the guy states, himself:
"self-hatred is just part of the human condition"
Why is that the case? There are a lot of behaviors built in to humans. Why is there both a wild instinct for self-preservation and a general tendency for most of us to hold ourselves in contempt?
"I desperately want to live. But I do not deserve to." Wha?
Long term (evolution) vs short term (conditioning) conflicts exist because we're social animals. We're being influenced by others who may be enhancing; or, degrading the built in behaviors that give us the flexibility to succeed both in situations requiring instinctive behavior and those requiring self-reflection. That balance can become skewed. That's the human condition. There are ways to restore that balance in ourselves individually when the situations and/or social groups we're in aren't doing it for us.
It doesn't really matter why. Knowing why isn't going to help you fix it. So what will?
Forgive yourself. You did those things because that's the amount of self awareness you had in that moment.
Now your eyes are open more. You see what you target. Fix it. Take responsibility for it.
That's both of them telling you that.
Not looking to fix me, curious about why that is the human condition. How humanity actually works, what is at the root of us.
There is Nothing Wrong with you.
there's nothing wrong with me. There are things wrong with my habits and my body. I'm 325 lbs, and smoke cigarettes. I have to take pills daily to manage my blood pressure and cholesterol. That's stupid and dangerous. I also drink more than is healthy. I very rarely get drunk, but I drink at least 2 beers a day. 6 or 7 on a weekend night. these things are fixable. I am working on them. I have a plan, and I'm working with my full attention on this current step. I'm going to get down to 300lbs, then quit smoking and start cardio. but right now, each day, I'm monitoring intake of calories and trying to stay in ketosis.
but yeah, nothing wrong... just the present situation.
Someone put the whole book up on youtube.
[YOUTUBE]PxJLE9HMaS8[/YOUTUBE]
Got 7 hours to kill? it'll be worth it.
Why?
I don't hate me. I'm actually rather fond of me.
Is self-hatred really a fixture of the human condition, or is it just a bill of goods some folks got hoodwinked into accepting?
Simply: if you get folks to be profoundly dissatisfied, existentially dissatisfied, then you can sell 'em stuff, solutions, cure-alls, philosophies, ideologies, and on and on.
That quote was preceded by:
… But let’s get real here. If we’re really honest with ourselves, we all have a little self-loathing going on from time to time. OK, maybe a lot of self-loathing going on, depending on the degree of trauma you’ve sustained, and how many episodes of Teletubbies you were subjected to as a child. ...
It was followed by:
… There’s nothing inherently “wrong” with you because you intensely dislike or feel ashamed of certain unsavory aspects of yourself. Everyone does. Even Oprah has to hate herself some of the time, I’m pretty sure. And I’m no exception either, of course. After all, I’m writing a listicle for a website — I must hate some deep, dark corner of myself. …
The meaning of the word
hatred, in context, runs the gamut from a strong dislike of something to the worst possible feeling. It's not just a
I don't deserve to live hatred. It doesn't have to be a continuous state. It can be temporary and have occurred at anytime during one's life.
The inherent ability to judge oneself, even harshly, is important to our adaptability between evolutionary changes. It's not all just built-in though. There are external influences that modify our views for better; or, for worse.
The Rule Two chapter starts by pointing out that, if prescribed medication, only 2/3rds of people will fill it; of the rest, only half will take it correctly. The most common reason for failure in kidney transplants is the patient doesn't take the anti-rejection medication.
But if we're given a prescription for our dog or cat, we are much more likely to fill it and administer it correctly.
That quote was preceded by: stuff
It was followed by: stuff
I hate myself for not catchin' all that
stuff earlier.
How many of you are there?
On Peterson again...
I enjoyed the chapter on child rearing. Found that our opinions on it align. I recall a day when Spencer was 4 or 5. He had done something mean to his sister. I was not pleased. I swatted his butt. He turned to me, startled, asked, "was that a real one?". "Yesss" I growled.
Tears. I thought... He gets it. That's good dadding. Didn't hurt him at all, but he didn't want to disappoint or anger me. He'll make it.
Now on chapter 7 Jordan is discussing sacrifice and delayed gratification. The concept that the larger the sacrifice you make, the greater the reward. What's the ultimate sacrifice? Yourself? A child? Talks about Abraham and Isaac, Socrates. Comes quite close to the step that would connect this to Tolles work.
I thought as I listened:
He is saying in simplified terms that if you are willing to sacrifice yourself, you can gain entry to heaven. I hear Tolle say, 'Yourself' is your egoic, mind identified 'Me'. Heaven is inner peace or enlightenment. Just being free of that identification and finding the calm still place where the 'I' resides is the doorway to that inner peace.
So can you give up your identity? Should you?
Here again, I'm struck by the contrast of the simplicity of Tolle's... angle?... and the complexity of most 'thinkers'. They are both essentially trying to assist you end Suffering. Tolle, through eliminating resistance, Peterson, through rules and modes of conduct that will generate optimal situations. I'm picturing these deep deep layered thought constructions Peterson takes us through as kind of a hole he's digging. Delving a lot into historical teaching and primordial instinctive impetus that drives us. He's trying to dig his way out the bottom of that hole by thinking more and more complex thoughts.
Tolle, by contrast, sees the thoughts weighing us down, causing us to sink into that hole. Simply letting go of the heavy thoughts will make you light enough to float to the top. The monkey could just release the treat, and he could get his hand out of the jar.
He gets real close to it again toward the end of the chapter. As I listen, it's about 20 minutes from the end of the audible audio book chapter 7. Talking about ideas. And to sacrifice your ideas allows you... The 'being' you to live on in freedom. Allow your ideas to die, so that you may live on...
I keep half expecting him to quote Tolle.
Losing weight is really hard for everyone.
Quitting smoking is easy. I smoked two packs a day, every day, for fifty years.
About ten years ago I decided to quit. I found a really easy way to do it, did it and kick myself for waiting so long.
Even describing how to do it is easy. Ask me and I'll tell you.
Thing about losing weight is that you can't quit cold turkey.
Stop buying them
...and bumming them.
I went to the store to get cigs (Winston Reds,
what did/do you guys smoke?), and the woman said "That'll be $1.03."
The previous day they were 78 cents.
I told her no thanks. And I haven't bought another pack.
Well, one pack in jail. But I didn't smoke them, I sold 'em.:yelgreedy
Camel light. Although they're not allowed to call them light anymore. Blue.
Last 2 times I smoked Marlboro light /gold. Red when I first started. Winston's are dry and horrible. I'd go without first.
Largo or Four Aces or Smoker's Friendly tobacco + Gambler's or Smoker's Friendly King tubes = (by way of a Tops cigarette maker) fine, cheap, coffin nails.
Coffee & cigarettes: a way of life.
In chapter 9 he's talking about inner avatars. Describing them the way Tolle describes the ego. They want to live! They'll fight you. Thinking is hard. You have to be honest. You have to have internal dialogs. All that. Then he says the only thing harder than thinking is Not thinking.
I lolled.
Camels, then Marlboros for a few years, back to camels, then filtered Camels. After 57 years I quit because of shortness of breath but that turned out to be a heart problem and a pacemaker/defibrillator took care of that. But stayed off them for 4 years then back to Camel filters. Some people claim there's a woman to blame, but I know it's my own damn fault. After a year of $80 a week I switched to vaping, which is cleaner, loaded with poison(nicotine), and killing me cheaper, but not before replacing the battery in the heart box for $265,000.
Bottom line, quitting cold turkey (gave away 3/4 of a carton) was not a problem if there was a good reason.
Last night I was listening to Peterson read his book. Amanda came out and said, "is that Saul Goodman?"
I thought he was so familiar because he looks a lot like Neegan. But it's his voice! Jimmy Mc Gill. Bob Odenkirk. Yup.
And now as I listen, I'm picturing Saul in a garish suit, addressing a jury. Sheesh.
Finished this last night. He comes so close, but always veers away one sentence short of overlapping Tolle. Several times.
I wonder if he's aware of Tolle and discredits him, or he just never heard him speak.
He's far too absorbed in details and intricacy and history to see the forest for the trees.
He said in the final chapter that when all this reason collapses, you're left with the being that notices. This is the closest he got to the core of Tolle's point.
Still pretty good way to train your egoic mind if you can't find your being.
[YOUTUBE]5rKQNX6zpCU[/YOUTUBE]
if you've seen Better Call Saul, or Breaking bad, you recognize the voice.
I'ma have to read/watch more Tolle to more see what's up
He's a good teacher. I paid money to subscribe to his YouTube premium channel. Lots of Q&A there. He pauses and blinks after most questions. I heard him say once that when he's doing that, what he's doing internally is admitting to himself that he doesn't know the answer, and allowing his thinking mind to cease, making room for the answer to arise from being.
Sometimes it's a long long pause.
Does Tolle ever talk about purpose? Working out why we get out of bed in the morning?
His answer to that is typically that our purpose is to bring awareness to the universe. See meaning of life post above.
But he does occasionally say that presence doesn't interfere with ambition, it just makes it easier to be precise in your deeds.
If you're not basing your goals on misunderstood reality, you're more likely to achieve real success.
And misunderstood reality comes from too much past or future occluding your perception.
Paraphrasing from many videos I've seen here.
[youtube]MUCx5H48AwM[/youtube]
[YOUTUBE]Z6F-jyrSBgg[/YOUTUBE]
I worry about changing what one perceives to be reality when it doesn't jibe with what everyone else perceives it to be. Unintended consequences.
You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not seeing reality any differently. I'm still as cynical as ever.
The difference is in the reaction. Things don't really go wrong. Things go. We make it wrong based on our perspective. Or right, if we approve of the outcome. Stripping away emotional response to things out of your control gives improved clarity of thought, not denial.
Understanding that you actually can't lose parts of yourself brings calm. If you inject your identity into objects... My Harley, your Ssr. My guitar I made.... Not really part of me. More part of my ego. I'm still me if I had to sell them.
Capice?
Losing my daughter stretches the boundaries of that, because I will actually not have her children to spoil, and my family or genetic line is lessened. But I'm still whole. I didn't lose anything I was born with.
… But I'm still whole. I didn't lose anything I was born with.
[Bold mine]
You can take solace in that your daughter probably recognized this is how you would feel and it made her difficult decision easier.
For someone so well adjusted, you're pretty fucking callous on this topic. Almost seems like you're doing it on purpose.
Your daughter saw you go through this when your marriage died. She knew the deal, what she could expect. I do. Most everyone else does. I'm glad you found your distraction by immersing yourself in the power of now. It's an interesting read/case study. Viewing it any other way won't change anything and would undermine my power of now.
You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not seeing reality any differently. I'm still as cynical as ever.
The difference is in the reaction. Things don't really go wrong. Things go. We make it wrong based on our perspective. Or right, if we approve of the outcome. Stripping away emotional response to things out of your control gives improved clarity of thought, not denial.
Understanding that you actually can't lose parts of yourself brings calm. If you inject your identity into objects... My Harley, your Ssr. My guitar I made.... Not really part of me. More part of my ego. I'm still me if I had to sell them.
Capice?
Yeah, I see what you're driving at. I've know people who lost a spouse then went into a spiral because they weren't a complete whole. Also teen/early 20's boys who lost their car and just lost interest in anyone or anything.
I've never gotten so attached to an item that I felt without it I wasn't complete. That may be because I have a habit of breaking shit. :haha:
I do try to figure out how it will change my plans so I can act accordingly, being annoyed I was forced to do that. I have said damn, I wish I still had that, but it's usually at the beginning or end of a story.
Having emotions is human, and displaying them is part of our complex communication between humans, also between people and pets. People look askew at anyone who doesn't display at least some of the emotion they expect in a given situation.
I wish she had given a reason in the note, but it is what it is. You'll be OK.
I AM ok.
If she had left a well thought out, winning argument for her right to take her own life, complete with all the reasons and they all made sense, how would that change anything? It would just give us specific points to argue with and resist.
The note said, "I'm so so sorry. I love you so much"
Enough to let us know that she did it on purpose.
Spencer was there. She never asked to be saved, or displayed panic like you would if you had changed your mind about it.
I'm not suppressing my emotions. Emotions arise from the physical reaction to thought. I've accepted the reality, so I'm not having regretful thoughts or entertaining fantasies about how I could have prevented it. Nor am I projecting forward into thoughts about what I'll miss in the future without her. Mostly. I still get sad when it comes up. I still occasionally shed a tear when I do dally into the past or future, but always use that as an alert to my thoughts and bring myself back to the moment.
This thread is about how and why to do that. You're resisting it for your own reasons. You don't have to share, but I think you might want to investigate it within yourself.
You might benefit from this mumbo jumbo, given your health issues and, I would imagine, sense of semi-imminent mortality. My pain from the past, yours from the future. Same balm.
To die before you die is to let your ego go while you're still aware. To allow your ID to come forward and realize that you're just on loan. You will return to the earth from which you came. You can't take a single atom with you when you pass.
[youtube]L7GChtWXpVI[/youtube]
[youtube]IQmC8zGsh30[/youtube]
If it works for you that's great, go with it. However you're preaching this as the holy grail, salvation for all, and I don't believe that. I think there are people who will have reality come back to bite them in the ass when they repeat mistakes that they could have avoided.
I've been trying not to preach. Trying to offer counterpoint. This works for me. Maybe a few others that aren't speaking here. All it really amounts to is increased self awareness. That seems to piss you off. Why?
Well (hole in the ground, about 50 ft. deep, you get water out of it), when you go on and on about it you make it sound like it's THE solution rather than an adjunct to the natural grieving process. It makes it seem that you're trying to reduce lives to the status of property the loss of which is easier to deal with. There's nothing new under the sun with the power of now. It's just a distraction. It's just trying to keep your mind off your loses until time heals all wounds as people have done forever. Thinking that you've got a panacea is purely egotistical. The kind of ego that can't be bruised by a balanced concern over it's role in matters past, present, and future. It eventually makes one expendable in other people's lives leading to failed relationships. Other than that it's mox nix. Good luck with that.
No, it's not new. I don't think it's a cure all either. I've been going on in this thread because that's what this thread is.
So easy to confuse what I'm describing as apathy. Not at all the case. And it's clearly not for everyone. Since the only ones commenting at this point are apparently irritated by the concepts, I guess there's no need to continue sharing what I'm learning. Your opinion of what's going on with me is not correct. Probably in large part due to the limited info you get from what I post here and what I feel. It's not really possible to describe with words because words are by definition thought.
Your comments on this topic, in particular, have seemed either self congratulatory or condescending. I understand that the same inaccuracy exists in my interpretation of your posts. You probably don't intend to be that way.
So, you said what you said, and unless you actually are trying to troll me, it's all good in the hood.
So yeah, let this thread fade. I'm done.
I think it's similar to Buddhist meditation, which is so deep in humanity, it predates Christianity.
makes one expendable in other people's lives leading to failed relationships
Ironic, because due to the warm relationship building you have done in this thread, people have asked me privately if you should be banned.
That's way worse than "expendable". It's not that they don't care if you are around. They actually want you gone.
Relationship expert, counsel thyself.
So what's new?
The power of now compels me.
What's new is the attention I'm paying to my own reactions. This would have devolved into a flame fest if I had not been.
Mocking me isn't very nice. I may be wrong, but I expect you're intent is to get a reaction so you can then show me that I'm wrong. That's ok, but I'm not trying to be right or show you that you're wrong in this thread, so... . I hope you didn't take it that way. I was just trying to point to something I find useful.
I'm not a case study. I'm your friend. Peace
Hmmm, I dunno, you once said that if someone doesn't post their picture in the Cellar they can't be your friend and I still haven't done that.
You've seen for yourself that it's not just me. I'm just the one who's not going to pussyfoot around with you. While you're certainly entitled to your own opinions, you are not entitled to your own facts. As long as you're just trying to point to something that YOU find useful, it's all good.
I'm not looking for any reaction, just to keep opinions in perspective. There's no trolling or flame war. If that was my intention, I would have laid into you from the start. I'm responding as you demonstrate you can handle my responses. Others may think you need to be coddled. I do not. My sword is mighty; but, my pen is mightier. If I decide to virtually attack someone here, I'll leave no doubt in their mind. Peace, and long life.
If it works for you that's great, go with it. However you're preaching this as the holy grail, salvation for all, and I don't believe that. I think there are people who will have reality come back to bite them in the ass when they repeat mistakes that they could have avoided.
I re read this. The last sentence.... What mistake do you think I made that I might be at risk of repeating? Or am I missing your point? I'm not telling you that I erase my memories. I am merely not residing in them. They're there, clear as can be. I can still see her there on the table. It was real. It no longer is. Now it's my memory I see.
The only fact I've offered is that everything unfolds in the present moment.
The rest is my opinion and advice.
I think you're right. I was wrong when I said that about the pictures. I have a clear image of most of you without them. And they don't really matter. The intent of that statement wasn't truly literal though, anyway. What I think I meant at the time was that if you're guarded and unwilling to share your real self (maybe a photo was a bad example) then we can't really share and connect as friends are wont to do.
Your sword and pen are just as impressive as your empathy.
I re read this. The last sentence.... What mistake do you think I made that I might be at risk of repeating? Or am I missing your point? I'm not telling you that I erase my memories. I am merely not residing in them. They're there, clear as can be. I can still see her there on the table. It was real. It no longer is. Now it's my memory I see.
My reticence isn't about you, and it doesn't piss me off. Like I said if it works for you that's great, I'm just cautioning others to be careful of this path and be aware because you're a fucking good salesman.
The years teach us what the days never knew. If you stay in the now and don't reflect on the past, then you can't try to plan the future avoiding those pitfalls, there is a good chance of repeating your fuck ups. Personally I try not to make the same mistakes more than 4 or 5 times. :blush:
Don't take my skepticism personally. In collage my roommate nagged me into reading The Third Eye by Lobsang Rampa. As far as I was concerned it was Tibetan Science Fiction, nothing to do with the real world, but he wanted to believe. No problem, believe what you want as long as you come up with your share of the rent on time. And stop banging your chick in my bed when I'm gone for the weekend.
Sadhguru says in the opening of his book, Inner Engineering, that the present moment... Shtick... Can be dangerous. Can cause stagnation. I'm reading that now. I can see your point. As in all things, moderation.
Perhaps it's important to be more specific about my personal context. At times of crisis, Tolle is a powerful teacher. When things are normal, others may have more to offer. Or maybe we need all of it at once.
I'm learning. I'm not qualified to instruct. I offer this Now stuff here as a resource for times of trouble. Your mileage will vary.
I think it's similar to Buddhist meditation, which is so deep in humanity, it predates Christianity.
I read Tolle years ago. I was struck that it was pretty derivative of Buddhism but maybe more accessible for a Western audience. I guess I'm one of those who has been largely silent on this thread who finds some peace in trying to go through life informed by this. Some folks believe this kind of thinking could make us too accepting of things that should be fought, maybe this is where Bruce is coming from?
Consider it in light of the Serenity Prayer:
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
Use an applicable method or technique as a tool; but, not as a crutch. It shouldn't interfere with acquiring the wisdom to know the difference between what you should accept and what you should change. When someone extols the virtue of a method/technique disproportionate to other applicable ones, it raises a red flag that it could be being used as a crutch. Crutches are symptomatic treatment and don't treat the underlying cause. Crutches alone may seem like a quick way around a problem; but, the short-term gain may not outweigh creating a long-term dependency on them. If one presents as overly reliant on a method/technique, hopefully one's friends will seek to help balance them out.
Becoming balanced depends various factors including a person's Power of Humility (in the psychology sense). The stronger the ego, the harder a well balanced position is to achieve. The tendency is to want to simply manage adversity through force of will. The Power of Humility; however, is more a leadership function than a management one. The Power of Humility makes for strong leaders; because, those who have it listen to others and allow them to help resolve issues rather than just telling them how it's going to be done. The power of humility takes one from just talking the talk, to walking the walk. The Power of Now always has its place. Its appeal has a tendency; however, to become exaggerated in those who don't make the Power of Humility cut.
Some folks believe this kind of thinking could make us too accepting of things that should be fought, maybe this is where Bruce is coming from?
Nah, I'm just a contrary prick. :lol:
I can see pitfalls in most cut and dried philosophies, also in ones winging it like Jim Jones and David Koresh. Maybe after Trump's war we can get better thinking.
There are many spurious and dangerously misleading teachings in vogue in our world today. “Be in the moment” is one of them. The assumption is that you could be somewhere else, if you wanted. How is that even possible? The present is the only place that you can be. If you live, you live in this moment. If you die, you die in this moment. This moment is eternity. How are you going to escape it, even if you try?Right now your problem is that you suffer what happened ten years ago and you suffer what may happen the day after tomorrow. Both are not living truths. They are simply a play of your memory and imagination. Does this mean then that in order to find peace you must annihilate your mind? Not at all. It simply means you need to take charge of it. Your mind carries the enormous reserves of memory and the incredible possibilities of the imagination that are the result of an evolutionary process of millions of years. If you can use it when you want and put it aside when you don’t, the mind can be a fantastic tool. To shun the past and neglect the future is to trivialize this wonderful faculty. So “be in the moment” becomes a crippling psychological restriction—it denies our existential reality.
I found a pdf of that book. Is this your concern, bruce?
I agree that if I was to ONLY live in the moment, this would be an issue. What I'm doing is working on the
capability. Being Able to center myself when I choose to. Not to live in that place all day every day.
And once again, I apologize if anyone took this as preaching. It's a tricky thing. I found great usefulness, and want to share it. Easy to slip into preaching mode. To be persuasive about it.
Once it happened…Four men were walking in the forest. The first was a gnana yogi, the second was a
bhakti yogi, the third was a karma yogi, and the fourth was a kriya yogi.
Usually, these four people can never be together.
The gnana yogi has total disdain for every other type
of yoga. His is the yoga of the intellect, and typically, an intellectual has complete disdain for everybody
else, particularly these devotional types who look upward and chant God’s name all the time. They look
like a bunch of idiots to him.
But a bhakti yogi, a devotee, thinks all this gnana, karma, and kriya yoga is a waste of time. He pities
the others who don’t see that all you need to do is know that God exists, hold his hand, and walk in trust.
All this mind-splitting philosophy, this bone-bending yoga is absurd to him.
Then there is the karma yogi, the man of action. He thinks all the other types are just plain lazy. Their
lives are pure self-indulgence.
But the kriya yogi is the most disdainful of all. He laughs at everyone. Don’t they know that existence is
just energy? If you don’t transform your energy, whether you long for God or for anything else, nothing is
going to happen! There can be no transformation.
These four people customarily cannot get along. But today they happened to be walking together in the
forest. Suddenly, a storm broke out. It grew fierce. The rain started pouring down relentlessly. Drenched
to the skin, the four yogis started running, looking desperately for shelter.
The bhakti yogi, the devotion man, said, “There’s an ancient temple in this direction. Let’s go there.”
(As a devotee, he was particularly familiar with the geography of temples.)
They ran in that direction. They came to an ancient temple; all the walls had crumbled long ago; just the
roof and four columns remained. They rushed into the temple—not out of any love for God, but just to
escape the rain.
There was a deity in the center. They ran toward it. The rain started lashing from every direction. There
was no other place to go, so they moved closer and closer. Finally, there was no alternative. They just sat
down and embraced the idol.
The moment these four people hugged the idol, suddenly God appeared.
In all their minds the same question arose: why now? They wondered, “We expounded so many subtle
and arcane philosophies, worshipped at every possible sacred shrine, great and small, selflessly served
so many people, did so much body-breaking penance, but you never showed up. Now when we’re just
escaping the rain, you turn up. Why?”
God said, “At last you four idiots got together.”
The problem is that religious nuts around the world have exported everything that is beautiful about a
human being to the other world. If you talk of love, they speak of divine love. If you talk of bliss, they
speak of divine bliss. If you talk of peace, they speak of divine peace. We have forgotten that these are all
human qualities. A human being is fully capable of joy, of love, of peace. Why do you want to export
these to heaven?
There is so much talk of God and heaven mainly because human beings have not realized the immensity
of being human. It is obvious that the very source of life is throbbing within you in some way. The source
of your life is also the source of every other life and the source of all creation. This dimension of
intelligence or consciousness exists in every one of us. The deliverance of every human being lies in
finding access to this deathless dimension.
To be joyful and peaceful within yourself every moment of your life, to be able to perceive life beyond
its physical limitations—these are not superhuman qualities. These are human possibilities.
Yoga is not about being superhuman; it is about realizing that being human is super.
here's an overlap of Tolle's thing. He's promoting the present moment awareness and quiet mind as an access point to the same goal. I guess they all are trying to help us see the same thing, but each have differing ways of illuminating the same truth. I never paid any attention to Yoga. Not this actual Yoga. I pay attention to fit women in tight pink outfits with their asses up in the air whenever I see it. But Spiritual Yoga was an abstract. Still is really. I'm interested now though. I know for sure that my physical body is out of tune/alignment. I think my mind and energy are more in tune, but still lacking.
It's gonna get weird in here.
weeee!
[youtube]MwgkvBZXum0[/youtube]
An interesting biproduct of trying to be aware of my own ego and my thought parade....and of trying to 'not know.' ( To not know is to be open to finding out. To know means you've stopped looking. I think. )
Anyway... I'm finding that I'm more... impressionable. A bit wide eyed at present.... Not overly, I think.... Just more aware that I don't really know what I had previously assumed. Less willing to react instantly with incomplete info. And seeing things from a bit more distance.
I'm seeing more that things are often backwards. Beginning with which direction to look for solutions when I think there is a problem. Mostly the issue is inward, not outward. Sometimes it's brought on from outside, but it's really how I take it.
I met an old guy today. 80. I had met him once before, but neither of us remember. He helped his grand son buy a car from us 3 1/2 years ago, and I did his deal.
He came because the bank had called him. His grandson had missed 2 payments. He must pay. His grandson had moved to Knoxville 4 months ago. They had had lunch a week before the kid (24 yrs old now) moved away for work. The girlfriend of one year went with him.
Since then, no contact. Since the bank called, he hadn't been able to get him on the phone. He had dates and times written in one of those little pocket notebooks of the times he called... Even had someone text him from his flip phone.
No reply. It was a whole story. I got the sense that it was his main focus.
He was angry about it. Even pantomimed shaking the kid by the collar at one point....
But I had to tell him... You promised to pay if he didn't. So you must pay. Or say fuck it. You're 80. Are you going to need good credit going forward?
You're not on the title, so you can't take the car. All you can do is pay or not pay. Why make it into a problem?
I also told him to try not to be angry. I said, you don't know enough yet to be angry. What if he's in trouble? Maybe he couldn't pay his phone bill either? I checked his insurance policy on the geico site, and it was inactive. Presumably for non payment... Maybe it's drugs? No. He never did that.... Maybe the girl? Nice girl.... Jail? ?? No idea.
So, You don't know. You're having both sides of the conversation in your head. It's not real. If you can't get him on the phone, get on a plane and go see him. You have his address. You're retired and you have the money. Go knock. Then you can choke him. If that's what you see he needs when you find him. Or don't.
Depends on how much you're willing to go through to find out what has gone on. I think he heard me. We talked for another 30 minutes.... Cool guy. Died when he was 25. Car crash... DOA, but he pulled through. Still has a metal chin.
And..
That Anias Nin quote jinx had as her signature.... 'We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are... '. This is quite clearly true to me now. I don't see you. I see light reflecting off of you. I see it inside my eyeballs at the back on the retina.
How far can you see? I used to wonder. As a kid... Looking out at the ocean on clear nights. I thought... I can see allll the way to the horizon. But.... You can't see any distance at all. It's like asking how far can you smell? Or touch or taste.
And the notion that we are part of the planet? That we are simply accumulations of what we've gathered over our lifetimes. Mentally, we accumulate the ideas and thoughts we're exposed to... through the filter of what has come before and/or the mood we're in when we hear it.... So... Random..... Accidental.... We could actually do that by design if we paid attention and made choices about what we want or don't want to be keeping. And the body is the same. We're accumulated earth. Small outcroppings. On loan until we die and give it back.
Aren't we though? Thinking about that... Yes, ok, I smoked.... Fine. But we're food. Made of food anyway. We ate a lot of things. Each one of us did. Those things.... It was plants, fruits, animals, drinks, drugs, medicine.... Some of it, we broke down and released their energy, and made more Jim or Tony or Bruce out of it. Some, we passed back to the planet, but the energy we used to make bigger or better bodies. Our particular body. Our bodies have memory.
We eat a banana. The banana has its own DNA. If you give a banana energy, it will turn it into more banana. If a person eats a banana, why don't we become more banana like? What changes the banana energy into that person's energy? We don't think about it. Science knows. That's that.
How do we manage to walk on two legs through a dark cinema, with a soda and popcorn and find our way back to our seat... To recognize our girl in the dark? To make a fade away jumper? To hit a baseball going 95 mph with a bat? To drive cars all the way home and have no recollection of the drive? Our bodies are fucking smart. That's how.
So lots of new thoughts to think. And I'm trying no to think so much. Funny.
Anyway... I'm finding that I'm more... impressionable. A bit wide eyed at present.... Not overly, I think.... Just more aware that I don't really know what I had previously assumed. Less willing to react instantly with incomplete info. And seeing things from a bit more distance.
This is huge. Empathy lives here. I can get so damned self-absorbed when I start assuming things.
Just more aware that I don't really know what I had previously assumed... I also told him to try not to be angry. I said, you don't know enough yet to be angry.... 'We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are... '.
This is, exactly, "This is Water", the David Foster Wallace graduation speech. It is life-changing and sums up a lot of this stuff.
The original speech if you prefer direct, have 23 minutes:
[YOUTUBE]8CrOL-ydFMI[/YOUTUBE]
If you only have 9 minutes and a low attention span, someone has edited this into a more produced version. This gets taken down from youtube because copyright, I think, but here it is at this time:
[youtube]eC7xzavzEKY[/youtube]
[YOUTUBE]kswDO60A3h8[/YOUTUBE]
I found a pdf of that book. Is this your concern, bruce?
A little of that but far from the rant sadhguru goes on. :mg:
Just in this thread you and Toad have introduced a bunch of philosophies that sometimes jibe and sometimes grate on each other. I guess they are like food stores, pick and choose from each to write your own menu.
I agree that if I was to ONLY live in the moment, this would be an issue. What I'm doing is working on the capability. Being Able to center myself when I choose to. Not to live in that place all day every day.
And once again, I apologize if anyone took this as preaching. It's a tricky thing. I found great usefulness, and want to share it. Easy to slip into preaching mode. To be persuasive about it.
That was probably a poor choice of words on my part, I used preaching as a shorthand for endorsing, expounding on, sharing new to you information with vigor. That's normal when you find something you feel is interesting and want to share it with friends. Didn't mean for it to sound judgmental, if I did I'm sorry.
I can certainly see the value of focusing on the task at hand without my mind wandering to the faux pas I committed at dinner with friends last Saturday, or the thing I promised to do next Tuesday.
If I'm doing something I fucked up before, I want to remember where I went wrong if I figured that out, but not dwell on the failure.
… but not dwell on the failure.
But, but, you're a dwellar! Maybe you're actually one of them cellarites. :eyebrow:
Sadhguru introduces Jiddu Krishnamurti
[youtube]zzvp6l9JvHg[/youtube]
I'm down the rabbit hole now... Tolle did a bit of reading from the book called Krishnamurti's notebook.
this section of his talk about silencing the mind must have had some impact on Tolle...
[youtube]u7aLnJtZgyY#t=21m04s[/youtube]
Stumbled on this today...
Erich Fromm could, in the mid-twentieth century, note that what separates humans from other creatures is not the upright posture, or tool wielding, or the ability to laugh, but rather precisely the fact that humankind is the only form of life blessed and cursed with the ability to query its own purpose. “Man is the only animal for whom his own existence is a problem which he has to solve and from which he cannot escape,” Fromm wrote in Man for Himself, confronting what he regarded as the “paralysis of our productive powers” that issues from the experience of boredom as an unavoidable part of that problem. Boredom was, Fromm thought, an experience of everyday damnation. “I am convinced that boredom is one of the greatest tortures,” he wrote. “If I were to imagine Hell, it would be the place where you were continually bored.”
Kind of relevant.
[youtube]WhVkmmlw6Nw[/youtube]
[youtube]Q_vDCo_aOvo[/youtube]
Attention = awareness
[youtube]y4JpRW8mDjU[/youtube]
When he says, 'I wonder if you can see this'. Or something to that effect... He's saying something important.
He's hard to follow.... I wish he wasn't dead. The way he makes very sure he understands the question... And then goes into them.... To go into... To investigate them.
[youtube]ea4mEnsTv6Q[/youtube]
OK now I'm overwhelmed with video to watch...!
Peterson-McGilchrist is just dense with thoughts. They're saying profound, amazing things every few minutes. It's like, whoa, I need to stop and digest that bit about the brain, but you guys have already moved on to the nature of God!
It's quite the rabbit hole.
The other night I decided I had come to a conclusion. It's awareness. Throughout every one of these thinkers' messages. Awareness. Attention. When you are fully aware, time goes away. Fully aware.
But that's not a conclusion. Is it? Just a point of overlap. I'm changing. But I'm not. I was already there. Just that I'm seeing it more...
[YOUTUBE]Vpi2H3nahdE[/YOUTUBE]
Hello to so many familiar names.
Mine is not going to be familiar to you, although I used to hang out in the Cellar a lot. I changed my name legally early last year, after a year of multiple severe emotional traumas. Along with it, I ditched my email addresses, amongst other things. I used to be sandypossum in the Cellar.
I have severe PTSD and I've also lost the ability to think in straight lines, or express myself well. I find it hard to maintain focus on anything complex. Can no longer read anything more than short articles, can't even watch many movies as I can't hold the narrative. Communication is difficult for me, but it's one of the main keys to any kind of recovery. I live in a remote area, and due to what happened, even within my area I am quite isolated.
A few weeks ago I remembered the Cellar. I had forgotten about all of you, and the level of conversation here. So I tried to come back but could not rememer my password, or access my old email address to get a reset so I had to join again. I can't make any new posts as a newbie - it said I had to reply to other posts first to show I'm real (fair enough) so here I am.
Am I right that there are far fewer Cellarites now?? It seems less busy here. But I was pleased to see many names I recognised from back then.
Do any of you remember me as sandypossum? I'm in Australia
I would really like to pick your brains on advice on how to move forward. (I don't want a shoulder to cry on.) I spent a year on the move (basically homeless though not destitute, just moving from place to place, wherever it felt safe, through Australia, Sweden, Belgium, New Zealand and Thailand) and in that time met a lot of people. I found that little diamonds of wisdom would come from the most unlikely places - little things that pointed which way to go, things that would alter my perspective. I don't think my situation is that special, but it is rather unusual. I did something rather drastic to survive what happened.
But to start with - hello to all who remember me, and those I don't know - and I'm hoping it's as cosy here as it used to be
Cheers, Tinker / Sandy
Yeah Sandy, a lot of the old timers have moved on, and even the ones still here cheat on facebook and the like. ;)
I'll admit I'm a Facebooker, but it's harder finding an intelligent bunch there.
By the way, Bruce, my new name is Tinker. I don't use the S word at all any more (only used it here in case anyone remembered me).
Hi Tinker - I remember you. Sounds like you've properly been through the mill since you were last here.
hey now.
If you're after advice, it might be good to start with what series of events or situations hurt you. And why it's still a problem. You're Ok now?
welcome back
You don't need to go all the way back to your relationship with your mother, just what's happened since your [post=920014]last reentrance[/post] here.
Hi Tinker,
I remember you too. Welcome back!
Thank you all for the warm welcome back!
Once I was allowed to post a new thread,
I did that, and rather than continue in two threads, I'll just post there if that's okay
[youtube]VVTiAw7K-bw[/youtube]
Jump to 36 minutes.
Right at the end of this one, he seems to contradict what Tolle says. That you ARE your thoughts. Tolle says you're not.
The distinction is that Krishnamurti is saying that the concept of 'you' includes the thoughts. The observer then, is the 'not you'. Or the attention. And the attention is a universal thing. Not discreet to each individual. On that level we are all connected as though we were, each of us, eyeballs or portals or maybe filter is a better word.... All looking out at the world from the same head/mind /energy.
I think.
I'm not so sure about universal awareness. Maybe as an analogy.... But then, if it's the same... Like if we didn't have words... The same perception beneath/before our interpretation of incoming info.... Maybe that's the same in all of us? But does that mean it's one larger awareness seeing through us? No way to know as we are all individual.
He says that's what compassion and love are. That shared source.
Mind bending
I remember you, sandy :) I saw one of your old posts just a few weeks back and wondered about you
I remember you, sandy :) I saw one of your old posts just a few weeks back and wondered about you
That's sweet, Monster. I remember most of the people who have responded here and in the other two posts. It's nice to see familiar faces, as it were
Russell Brand gives Tolle a shout-out today on the YouTubes. "My favourite Eckhart Tolle quotes"
[YOUTUBE]YLRuHpeQbH4[/YOUTUBE]
I'll list his favorite quotes, because they are interesting to consider; in the video, Mr Brand also gives his own thoughts on each one, and that part is lovely.
"Sometimes letting go of things is an act of far greater power than defending or hanging on."
"If you get the inside right, the outside will fall into place."
"The primary cause for unhappiness is never the situation, but your thoughts about it"
"Anything you resent and strongly react to in another is also in you."
"Living up to an image that you have of yourself, or that other people have of you, is inauthentic living."
"What a liberation, to realize that the voice in my head is not who I am. Who am I then? The one who sees that."
"If you're not living in this moment, you're not really living."
"Power over others is weakness disguised as strength."
"People don't realize that now is all there ever is. There is no past or future except as memory or anticipation in your mind."
"Discontent, blaming, complaining, self-pity, cannot serve as a foundation for a good future, no matter how much effort you make."
He seems smarter than my first impression of him. Did he used to be a goofy comedian?
He was a comedian and comic actor (the rock star in "Forgetting Sarah Marshall"); he had addiction issues, but worse, he was married to Katy Perry. He left her, left his addictions, turned to spirituality. Now he's no longer spending much energy being a celebrity, and has pretty much become a spiritual thinker/YouTuber.
Nice. I'll have to pay more attention. His voice says mockery to me, but I suppose that's from his prior identity.
Neat to see change fur the better. Although, Katy perry is probably a lot of fun to fight with. Not to mention the wrestling.
Ah. There's a Joe Rogan with him this April. 3 hours. Should be a large enough sample size to suss him. I think Rogan might be on a level with Howard stern with his interview acumen.
I've never seen Maynard Keenan so relaxed and normal as I did on that last one with the wolf hunting Eagles.
Only a few minutes into this, and it's already really honest and going both directions.
[youtube]rY5jCvRHEFk[/youtube]
Huh. They refer to philosophize this podcast. That's the one Spencer follows.
I'm a subscribe to Rogan'a channel, I am.
An hour into that, and boy Russell talks fast. I can tell he's watched a lot of the same stuff I've been watching.
He does a great job of explaining these things. Today he discusses the quote/idea that "Feelings are just visitors... let them come and go."
(on emotions)
I suppose much of this is our way of adapting to living in, kind of, peculiarly comfortable prisons all day. All of these impulses were designed for different environments -- designed to protect us when we lived very, very different lives; and motivate us, control us. They would, like, kind of "jet fuel" jealousy, to protect; envy, to strive.
But now look at us. Where do we live? In this peculiar zoo, when we're not even really able to correctly analyze what's happening to us...
...the story of who we are so expertly controlled it's very difficult to witness the outer world. The first system that you have to learn to overthrow is the system inside your own head. The system that's been implanted . The system that we see as "the self".
Five minutes:
[YOUTUBE]F9qr43KwNPo[/YOUTUBE]