I'm Jim, and I'm a Compulsive Overeater
Did you know there was such a thing? I might have, I don't remember if I knew of them, but I do now because I realize that I am one. Just like drug addicts and alcoholics. I've repeatedly spent my family's money on fast food and lied about it to my wife. I've also fucked our money up on a scary level, and drank too much for the last 3 or 4 years. Jinx and I have had several confrontations about this, and I always tell her I will fix it.... and that I won't fuck up again....and then I cool out for a little while.... but then, i start again..getting sneakier each time. I have convinced her that i will say anything and then just go do what I want.
And it may have cost me everything I really care about. On Tuesday night, jinx asked me to go stay with my mom for 'a while.'
I went to my first OA meeting on Wednesday. They do the same 12 step Process that AA does. I need to get this fixed in a lasting way, and I see and hear proponents of these programs enough to want to believe there is some hope there for me.
So, I'm going to be kind of... different here for a while. I won't ram my problems down your throats, but I wanted to tell you about it because it is the truth.
Sorry to read of your difficulties, LJ. You have taken a big step by just admitting you have a problem. So many people stay in denial for years and years. I wish you well working the steps - its not always easy.
I'm sure you're aware that alcohol consumption only makes things worse. It lowers your inhibitions and adds many nasty calories. You might want to look at limiting your alcohol intake as well.
Hang in there. I understand how tough your problem can be.
Well that sucks donkey balls. :(
It's hard to believe you could eat enough junk food, to blow the family finances, but you're certainly compromising your heath.
This too, shall pass... I know you're smart enough to straighten this out, and the sunshine & bluebirds will return to happy valley, pretty quick.
I hope you can both sort your issues out. It's terrible when a family is separated.
Good luck with whatever path you take.
Jim, you are NOT alone in this.
If there is ever anything I can do - please let me know.
Actually, the 12 steps have made my life better in so many ways --- just let go and trust the process (it's a process, not an event!) and believe that you will get better.
Hugs to you my friend. Hugs and comfort.
Wow. I admit I'm kind of baffled by this whole thread--kind of thought it was a parody at first--because you're right, I did not realize there was such a thing. But if it screws things up, it screws things up, and that's a problem. So good for you for working on it. You and jinx both know we're always here for you.
I realized such a thing existed. I too thought this might be a parody, but I see now it isn't. I stress eat badly, but I don't think that's the same level of which you speak.
Ain't none of us perfect and we all have our struggles. I wish you the very best in this, jim. I also think it's wonderful that you feel good to come here with it: I would not be so brave.
Sorry man. I feel your pain. Deeply.
You're brave to be so open about it. I wish you guys the best as you work through this. Changing behavior isn't easy, but if you really set your mind to it, I know you can do it. Many have, and you can too.
GD. Whatever you need that I can offer... just call.
Thoughts going out to you. Be strong.
I'm sorry you are going through this and wish you the best of luck on your journey.
I have a frnd out there who was in similar (or even worst) situation last year. It was no less than a miracle that he changed, but it was a slow process. Just trying to tell you that its possible.
Keep your head high man. I hope you come out with win-win smile like Mickey in Disney land :)
I appreciate all of your replies and support. I'm going to do this. I'm so very amazed at how far away from myself this took me. When you're this scared of losing your life's love, the food thing is a no brainer. But I need to be able to control it when I'm not afraid of losing her. I need to be able to control this for the rest of my life. When I realized that I've become a liar, I got pretty disheartened. That's a long trip to come back from, but I want to do it, and I have to do it.
I will most likely limit my participation on the cellar in general until I start to feel like I am progressing somewhat. I hope it doesn't take too long.
I'm sorry to hear this, LJ. My partner struggles with this as well, and I've strugged with smoking and drinking. Overeating is particularly difficult to manage due to the fact that you can't simply NOT eat.
Good luck with it, and feel free to contact me if you want to know what is working for us.
Stormie
Jim, I admit to waiting for the other shoe to fall, but at the same time I can completely relate. Especially to the surreptitious eating. And the self sabotage.
Good luck and let us know if we can help.
Every day reveals to me a new level of how bad I've become. Today, and worst yet, a glimpse of how bad this all makes jinx feel. Through my selfishness, and gluttony, I've hurt not only her trust, but her feeling of self worth. I admit to feeling sorry for myself when this first happened, and being scared for my future.... fear of being alone, and the humiliation of the rejection.... but the way I feel right now? that I've made her feel like she deserved this for some reason? like there's something wrong with her?
This is no joke. not even a little bit.
Don't forget: you're human.
Yeah, I don't know many people who aren't fucked up somewhere in their life.
It's the nature of partnership... when one fucks up it's natural for the other to question whether it's partially their fault. Thinking maybe they could have done something to prevent it. That's just a sign it was a good partnership to begin with.
I'm absolutely, positively, unquestionably, without a doubt, certain you guys can weather this storm without permanent damage.
I am sure your counsoller (SP) will have some great ideas to help you out with this, But I have one that might help in the short term. Even before your "time apart" is finished, perhaps think of putting Jinx in charge of all finances. Sit down together and figure out all bills, spending money, savings, etc... Then give yourself an allowance. With your allowance, break that down even farther. How much is going to: booze, smokes( if you smoke), fast food, clothes, toys etc...
Use envelopes if needed, once the money in each envelope is gone, don't cheat and use another. Not having the money to spend will make you not have to lie, because you won't be able to slip.
This worked for my hubby and I, he had no concept of budgeting, and we were fighting all the time. Now I handle all finaces, and EACH of us get an allowance to spend however we want. The bills are getting paid, and our debt each year is going down. The best part is, we don't fight over missing a bill and who was suppose to pay it, or anything like that. Putting hubby on a budget helped him take more ownership with his money, and he was less likely to spend it all as fast. We have a pre-paid credit card with a bit on it, for emergancies, for things he can not wait for me about. Even after 17 years, he does have access to our joint account, but asks before using those funds, in case they are for a bill or something.
Perhaps something like this might help you guys?
I wish you both all the best, good luck with the road ahead, just remember curves, bumps and pit falls are part of the journey. If you can travel it together it won't feel so rocky.
Jim remember that there's a lot of people here (and in real life, I'm sure) that are rooting for you.
The most important thing said here so far has been 'Don't beat yourself up too much, you are human after all.'
I do the "stress eating" thing. It's a repeating loop. I feel bad, so I eat. Then I feel bad for eating. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
Jim, please, share with us all of this that you feel you can comfortably share. I, for one am very interested in what the OA way is going to be like.
Oh, and: Put. Down. The. Curly Fries. And slowly back away.:D
Well, diggr, it begins with admitting to yourself that you are powerless over your addiction.
After struggling with my weight for my whole life... I have to admit. I'm powerless over it. It's harder than it sounds to admit that. At this point, right now, I believe it intellectually. I don't think I 100% believe it in my heart though. I have to do that before I can go any further. I'll get it. It feels more like a matter of letting go, than grasping new knowledge. Surrender to the truth, not discover it.
Oh LJ! I'm so sorry to hear of your troubles! I think Jaydaan has some very good advice about money management. You know that there are plenty here who've had thir own struggles and you've added your support when they've needed it. Now it's your turn to lean on us, your friends here. Hugs to you and your family, mate.
Dang, dude. I hate to hear about something like this. But I think it's good for you to be talking about it. I'm going to avoid the whole internet thing of giving all kinds of advice* based on a brief description of a complex issue, but I do agree that this can be conquered. I'm not very good at people skills but if there is something I could do that would help you, I would do that thing.
[SIZE="1"]*Okay, but if I was going to, I would agree that some type of "envelope system" i.e. Dave Ramsey is a good system for managing money.[/SIZE]
Good for you for taking an active step to adjust your lifestyle, that's really how it begins. i have tendencies to overeat, too, plus an inactive lifestyle to boot, all complicated by a lifetime of digestive issues in general. i completely understand where you're at - i fight with food constantly, too. sometimes food wins still.
one day at a time, and you can sort it out. keep posting on your progress if it helps any - your success as well as your slips, and it may help you gain control of it. it's tough. i totally agree with stormieweather up above - it feels harder because you just can't simply not eat the way you can not drink alcohol or smoke a cigarette - you have to have food to survive! in one very real sense that makes it even harder than any drug or alcohol or other addiction - but it *is* one that can be overcome, still. best of luck to you.
LJ.... I can TOTALLY relate... in a huge way... I've transfered one addiction to another over the years and it rested and still does to a large degree in eating. I am what you would call a binge eater. I doubled in size... literally and was eating more than Flint who is a foot taller than me. I sneak... and can easily consume a weeks worth of lunches in one afternoon. I've had so many excuses over the years for eating too much... and it has kept me from being truly happy and feeling like myself... its kept me from excersing and doing things with Flint I would love to do. I'm ashamed of it... I'm ashamed of my body and that is a terrible way to feel. It is horrible to be afraid of food... you have to eat.
To be honest the HCG diet has been wonderful for me because I have to measure my food... it is totally joyless and my weight loss is so rapid that I have yet to fall off the wagon. I don't do well when allowed to eat a simi normal diet ... I sneak and justify eating and god forbid something stressful happens... we won't even go into that.
I just wanted you to know that you aren't the only one... and you can beat it... if you want more infomation on what I've found to help... or this diet... I'm here... you can pm me... or... you have my personal e-mail... you know where to find me... you can even have my number if you want... I doubt Flint would object.
Thanks, We actually are already taking Jayd's advice. As of yesterday, jinx has my bank card, and I'll draw an allowance to get me through the week with gas and food. It's tough to admit that you've failed at something, but I have proven that I can't be relied on to work the plan.... so...
We all fail at something from time to time... some of us are bright enough to realize our failures, some of us are fortunate enough to have loved ones brave and honest enough to enlighten us, and some of us never get it and continue on our paths of self distruction.
We are here for you... you are awesome LJ in so many ways... you can overcome this.
There's also more to this than the eating. It's the deception. I smoked behind her back for a while a few years ago too. Jesus I suck.
you guys should be supporting jinx, she's the wronged party here. She didnt deserve to be treated like this.
I meant you in the plural sense. I'm sure that most people meant that as well.
We are here to support the both of you. You both need healing and compasion and understanding.
I meant you in the plural sense. I'm sure that most people meant that as well.
We are here to support the both of you. You both need healing and compasion and understanding.
I'm sorry. I know you guys(allyouguys) did. I'm not thinking very clearly today.
I support you both, but there are worse things than an eating disorder. Like womanizing or drug and alcohol addiction. You don't have to do drugs, drink , or even have sex to live but you do have to eat. Learning to control what you eat is a challenge but you can do it!
My hub is a horder I "enjoy" that this is his problem rather than him having a drug, alcohol or womanizing problem. He is learning to throw things away. Change can happen, good luck! :)
Jim, I'm sure you may have already discovered this but I think what you were going through was more of a power struggle. As a women who is the strong one in the relationship (or the decision maker for the most part), I can see where and how that affects the (my) husband. This problem needs the both of you to handle.
(@ pico) That is probably always the case, and I understand that immeidate family often attends these sorts of meetings and gets something constructive out of it.
I was just wondering where you guys were! I hope all goes well on your road to recovery! None of us here are perfect... I understand if you need to fess up and change.
I have things to quit too...when I'm ready.
I'm glad you are putting your best foot forward, in earnest!
God luck and I hope things cool off! We're around if you need us minus the recipies. :)
Love and support to you BOTH !!!!!
Might sound corny, but the book I'm reading right now,
The Five Love Languages, is really good and appears more practical than most of the other relationship books I've read.
Are you back home?
No, monster. I'm living at my mom's. In my old room. She didn't mean 'a while' ...like a few hours. It wasn't a quick time out... It was either that or she was going to take the kids and go who knows where. she was/is that freaked out. She's 37, and completely dependent on me to provide for her and her kids... she trusted me to do that.... and I'm fucking it up badly.
I don't know yet how bad this is. I keep thinking I do, but then something else is made clear to me. I've been ignoring warnings and symptoms of stress in our relationship for many years, it seems. I want to be as honest about this as I can, and I keep thinking that I am, only to realize later that I haven't been. I can't even tell when I'm spinning the facts at this point. If I can't
see the truth, how can I
tell it?........I don't know.
I haven't had a drink in 10 days, or coffee, or junk food.... and last night I finally got more than 4 hours of sleep, so I'm starting to realize some of the things I've said and done... .
Today when I woke up, I felt a little bit more optimistic about things, and then a past due electric bill turned up. I had put off paying that. It was due early this month and I had carried a smallish amount from the prior month... so I owed 369 on July 3rd or something. I knew I was falling behind there, and I was planning on calling... blah blah blah...spin deleted.... now next months bill is here and its 6something.
anyway, I had to go in and ask my boss for an advance against my bonus to hopefully cover it, so that when jinx takes over the bills, she's not starting in a hole. I had to tell him what I was dealing with, so he'd understand it if I make some colossal fuck up here at work. I told him I was out of the house, and that I am going to get help. He was just as nice about it as you all have been. I am so ashamed about this that I don't want to tell anyone else I work with. I will eventually, but not while there's a danger of my bursting into tears in front of them. I work hard and make a lot of money. Our bills should be paid. All of them, every month.
i lied. I had one of my sister's homemade beers on Sunday after we built the deck. It was delicious.
oh man. I'm so sorry. But like the others, I can't believe it can't be fixed. You're way stronger than you are currently giving yourself credit for, but that's not too surprising at this point in the journey. Congrats on admitting to the beer. Definitely the key here for you seems to be to fix the sneaking/avoiding the truth first. You can't fix everything at once, pick your battles and that one seems like it's first in line.
When it comes down to it its just all about learning new habits. OA will help you figure out what those need to be for you. Once you have a better handle on your healthy habits, you wont feel the need for the deception.
oh man. I'm so sorry. But like the others, I can't believe it can't be fixed. You're way stronger than you are currently giving yourself credit for, but that's not too surprising at this point in the journey. Congrats on admitting to the beer. Definitely the key here for you seems to be to fix the sneaking/avoiding the truth first. You can't fix everything at once, pick your battles and that one seems like it's first in line.
I don't think the beer was a big deal. I just forgot that I had it. I had worked out in the sun all day, and she had brewed it herself, so I had one. But I'm trying extra hard to be 100% truthful here. reality Is.
Driving home tonight, I was thinking of all the different ways Shelby has tried to help me control my weight. I should actually say SOME of the ways, as there have been far too many to remember half of them.... How long she spent coming up with one good idea after another to help me get control of it. She got me going to the gym, she cooked healthy food for me to take to work, she tried letting go and saying nothing about it, she tried threatening me, she tried shaming me, she tried every thing a person could to help another get it. And I blithely pretended to take her advice...maybe sometimes I'd even go so far as to follow it for a week or two.... rarely. And then I'd go right back to my usual thing. Eating to capacity at every opportunity, eating more meat than a family needs.... eating 4 or 5 meals worth of food in a day some times.
My mind and body are way out of harmony. I need to get that balance back. I feel so terrible about how much time she wasted trying in vain to get through to me about this.
I think I really do believe in my heart that I couldn't and can't handle this alone. How else can I justify the way I've treated my wife? I would have gotten a hold of it at some point in the last 10 years or so right? But my compulsions have slowly gotten worse, and I was teetering at the brink of 300# in spite of the active lifestyle and exercise we did together.
I'm going to struggle with the next part. I am unsure about what higher power i can identify to restore me to sanity. I was brought up Christian, but intellectually, I don't believe in 'God' as a specific entity. Can I believe in him Spiritually? I wonder if I can allow that dichotomy to exist inside me. I've always been more of a believer in a Force.... which makes individual attention from that force a bit suspect in my mind. I's like to say I'll use FSM, but I don't want to joke around about this.
Oh hell, that's an easy one. Jinx is god(ess) and you're going straight to hell if you don't shape up. ;)
You created the shame feelings because they recreated feelings that you secretly enjoyed as a child. They were a comfort. And the full feelings, also a low-level, basic comfort. You may have sought to create an emotion over which you actually had full control, to avoid more painful or complicated emotions that you could not control. The excitement of "getting away with it" can also be part of the addictive reaction.
That will be $90. Same time next week?
Unrelated to 12-step programs or religion or whatnot, but maybe helpful:
my doctor wants me to lose weight, and recommends some supplement beverage drink mix junk called Bioslife Slim.
It's expensive as hell if you buy it outright, but if you call the company and do auto-pay monthly shipments and some membership it's about $60 for a month's supply. I bought a short supply of bios life (regular, not slim) from my doctor directly a while ago, but haven't tried it long enough to report on any benefits yet. it's supposed to help lower cholesterol, blood sugar with chromium, and basically thickens in your stomach to help you feel full without eating as much if you chug it a bit before a meal. It does do that, at least to me. Maybe it'd help you eat less.
But, an important aside: the annoying part is, and consider this carefully, that the company pushes it as a multi-level marketing thing where you can open a 'franchise' and sell it to other people, so i am wary of it a bit, but my doctor swears he has seen results from it in patients who have tried it, both in weight loss and blood sugar reduction, to the point of having at least one patient able to lose weight and stop taking insulin. I'm type 2 diabetic myself, so that is of rather great interest to me. i don't take insulin yet, and i'm trying to keep it that way.
I wouldn't EVER buy INTO anything from them (or a similar company) as far as a "business opportunity" goes, but I may give their product a try for a couple more months and see if it does anything. It shouldn't hurt anything but the pocketbook at worst, and I keep meticulous logs and trend graphs of my blood sugar so I'll have a little bit of data to watch. I need to get a good scale while I'm at it to watch that. Of course, diet and behavior modification, exercise, and calorie counting also goes hand-in-hand with it. I'm not conducting a "real" research study either so as far as confounding variables go those are something that I'll have to consider too.
http://www.unicity.net/usa/page/slim is the url for the stuff, if you dare.
And speaking of similar companies, another one called Melaleuca sells all sorts of junk in a similar fashion - but one of their products I tried actually I really, really liked. They also have a fiber supplement drink called "Fiberwise" that fills you up in a similar way, though doesn't have the weight loss claims attached. It's got a lot of different fiber sources, vitamins, and nutritional supplement stuff that may or may not do much, but as a whole the fiber content alone was actually excellent and it did its job (ahem) well.
http://businesscenter.melaleuca.com/ps/index.cfm?f=ps.productDetail&pid=1699&pType=1&sCatId=2156 is a direct link to the product. I went through a jug of the peach flavor over a couple of months. The upshot is that it's far, far cheaper than Bios Life Slim.
A disclaimer, to be clear: i don't sell the stuff, not affiliated in any way, etc. And, I can't stress enough, if you try either one, I strongly encourage that you don't get sucked in by the multi-level marketing part. It's *way* too easy to get burned doing that. But the products do seem decent, good even, so it might be worth a shot to try buying some. YMMV.
No matter how you choose to do it, I'd truly like to hear that you're able to succeed at this. It really makes me happy to hear about people making positive changes in their lives.
I'm going to struggle with the next part. I am unsure about what higher power i can identify to restore me to sanity. I was brought up Christian, but intellectually, I don't believe in 'God' as a specific entity. Can I believe in him Spiritually? I wonder if I can allow that dichotomy to exist inside me. I've always been more of a believer in a Force.... which makes individual attention from that force a bit suspect in my mind. I's like to say I'll use FSM, but I don't want to joke around about this.
I had a terrible time with the higher power thing when I was first introduced to AA. I was a pretty firm agnostic and studied biology in college on top of that. There is no room for God in a strict scientific discipline. God kept driving me out the door of AA, and alcohol kept driving me back in. It sucked.
Finally, I realized that I had had a higher power all along - alcohol. For you it may be food. I loved Jack Daniels more than I did my husband. I put my spouse through hell, so I could maintain my relationship with old Jack. I lied for and about my alcohol use. All my extra money was tithed to Jack's church. I woke up thinking of my next drink and went to sleep wishing I would die because I hated myself for drinking so much.
Alcohol was THE NUMBER ONE higher power in my life. So, I figured that since I already did have a higher power in my life after all, I might as well try switching to a new one. Some people use their group, but that didn't work for me.
I started reading about spirituality and the different types of beliefs. I liked Buddhism the best, and I began very haltingly to try to practice that. I could go with an intelligence of the universe, so I began to pray to that.
After a couple of years of this, I had two extremely powerful spiritual experiences about a year apart - me the confirmed agnostic.
You don't need to join an organized religion or become a Buddhist or even have a spiritual experience. What I have discovered is that there is much truth in "seek and you shall find." Even if you don't know what you are looking for, the act of seeking is enough.
Good luck on your journey, Jim.
brilliant, Sam.
The act of seeking IS enough.
I found that to be true and I'm a recovering Catholic - talk about shame.
Oh hell, that's an easy one. Jinx is god(ess) and you're going straight to hell if you don't shape up. ;)
I know you are joking here, but this actually touches on something that I was thinking. I think I was using jinx as a higher power, or as my conscience.(Hugely unfair of me, btw) Knowing all the while that I could fool her. As long as she didn't ask me directly if I ate at mcdonalds, I wouldn't get caught. And she never asked me.
I should be able to be honest enough to myself to see that what I'm doing is counterproductive to my goal, and stop that behavior. It shouldn't be ok if no one else knows. I know. I am the boss of me. I have to do the right thing because it is the right thing. Not because I'm trying not to get caught doing the wrong thing.
I see it now, today, and I hope to be able to maintain focus on that.
You help others by talking about this, you know. It's part of the process. So, thanks, on behalf of those of us who have such things to think about in our lives, as well.
Sam,
Thank you. I think I will look into buddism.
Jim...are you a reader? I am and I have always found comfort in looking for answers in books. A while back I was in crisis - mentally and emotionally. So I went to Barnes and Nobles and bought a bunch of books. Most of them were based on Buddhism and even though they didn't supply answers right away, they did show me that a lot of my problems stemmed from how and where I spent my mental focus. Another book, the Feeling Good Handbook by David Burns, helped me with that a little better because it was much more straight forward.
You can do this Jim. Your mental capacity is strong...very strong.
Jim,
I mentioned some books on Buddhism to Griff in another thread. My personal take on Buddhism and 12 step programs is that despite being a religion, Buddha is not a god, despite many translators calling him "lord Buddha." One of the fundamental aspects of Buddhism is that Buddha was just an ordinary person, and this is important. Buddha means awakened, and in Buddhsim we are all Buddhas. Not sure how that might pan out as a higher power, but it might eventually work out nicely. If Buddha can do it, so can I.
In AA they talk about bottoming out, Christianity it's the dark night of the soul, in Buddhism its "the raising of the Bodhi mind" whatever you want to call it, what has happened to you is that you realize things are not as they could be and you want to change the way things are.
I'd stick with the 12 step literature for awhile before delving into Buddhism, it will really confuse things at first, especially since Buddhism is so keen on you taking personal responsibility for everything. I found it hard to admit to being powerless while reading in Buddhist texts that everything is my responsibility. Ultimately the path of Buddhism is very empowering, but until you get your base solidified it may create confusion. At least it did for me.
That being said, your higher power could be just that: YOUR higher power. Your highest expression of self, the you Jinx sees in her heart. Or it could be just that collection of sounds that comes out "your higher power."
Some reading material worth picking up is a great book called "No more Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover. It's not a book about being a prick, it's about how men learned to be adaptive and pleasing as kids out of fear of displeasing loved ones and thereby become secretive and dishonest in their relationships as adults. After reading the book, it was a real eye opener to me.
I gotta go help the kids, more later.
Sam,
Thank you. I think I will look into buddism.
I suggest you start with the books of Thich Nhat Hanh. His books are very accessible to the Western reader and quite eloquent. My fav is The Heart of Understanding. Jack Kornfield is an American who studied at a Buddhist monestary in Japan or India (can't remember which). His writing is also clear and easy to understand.
While Buddhism does emphasize personal accountability, it also states that we are powerless over what happens to us. What we can control is our response to these things.
Unlike Griff, I had no trouble fitting Buddhism in with the 12 steps, but of course each of us is different. The important thing is to find what works for you!
Namaste,
Sam
Shaw's point is an excellent one. I too thank you.
I suggest you start with the books of Thich Nhat Hanh. His books are very accessible to the Western reader and quite eloquent. My fav is The Heart of Understanding. Jack Kornfield is an American who studied at a Buddhist monestary in Japan or India (can't remember which). His writing is also clear and easy to understand.
While Buddhism does emphasize personal accountability, it also states that we are powerless over what happens to us. What we can control is our response to these things.
Unlike Griff, I had no trouble fitting Buddhism in with the 12 steps, but of course each of us is different. The important thing is to find what works for you!
Namaste,
Sam
Very excellent point Sam.
I know you are joking here, but this actually touches on something that I was thinking. I think I was using jinx as a higher power, or as my conscience.
Yeah, I was. But you know, when I don't have to answer to anyone else, I can rationalize like a motherfucker.
I don't think a Deity is the answer. Your goal is not to contol your eating, to lose weight, become a better person, or world peace... your goal is your family. I don't mean be a slave to Jinx and the kids, you're part of the family too. But in every action/decision, ask yourself, is this best for my family.
You've had a shocker, like going to pee in the morning and finding your dick fell off. You're smart, it won't take you long to figure out how to pee sitting down.
That being said, your higher power could be just that: YOUR higher power. Your highest expression of self...
the image and essence of what I CAN be. The goal.
Some reading material worth picking up is a great book called "No more Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover. It's not a book about being a prick, it's about how men learned to be adaptive and pleasing as kids out of fear of displeasing loved ones and thereby become secretive and dishonest in their relationships as adults. After reading the book, it was a real eye opener to me.
I gotta go help the kids, more later.
will read that, asap.
I don't think a Deity is the answer. Your goal is not to contol your eating, to lose weight, become a better person, or world peace... your goal is your family.
^this^
I agree, the weight is a secondary issue....tertiary even. Main issue being repairing my disconnect with reality, second being the security and future of my family. I only put my sanity first because I have to do that before I can effectively do the other.
eyes open wider every day
I suggest you start with the books of Thich Nhat Hanh. His books are very accessible to the Western reader and quite eloquent. My fav is The Heart of Understanding. Jack Kornfield is an American who studied at a Buddhist monestary in Japan or India (can't remember which). His writing is also clear and easy to understand.
While Buddhism does emphasize personal accountability, it also states that we are powerless over what happens to us. What we can control is our response to these things.
Unlike Griff, I had no trouble fitting Buddhism in with the 12 steps, but of course each of us is different. The important thing is to find what works for you!
Namaste,
Sam
thank you again
Wow. Come late to this.
Assumed it was a joke thread at first.
Jim, if you're compulsively over-eating there is something in your life or in your past you are compensating for.
I agree with the suggestions other people have made, but my advice is to seek some kind of counselling AS WELL.
Knowing why you have allowed this to affect your relationship with the woman you love and the two children you adore is important in moving forwards.
I have an addictive personality. I don't mean it as an excuse because I have never become physically addicted to anything in my life. I smoked; I gave up. I drank heavily (ie at a level very dangerous to my health) I gave up. Drink I am still fighting btw, but not at the same level. But I also overeat. And I have never been able to control it, despite getting down to under 9 stone at one point (9x14 = lb).
I assume it's the lying and sneaking about that's the real issue. I felt the same betrayal when I found out an ex who claimed to have given up smoking had only actually given up in my presence. But you and Jinx are stronger than that.
I'm so sorry you are apart at the moment. It must be hurting like buggery for both of you, and your children. Much love to you all, and here's to the future.
I just saw this post and wanted to let you know that I'm behind you, Jim. We all have our failings and at least you are trying to get yours under control. I hope you and Jinx can work things out.
On the subject of personal responsibility vs. admitting powerlessness, I had it presented to me recently in a novel way.
The typical thing that I get chastised for is that I'm "too hard on myself"--too demanding for results, and too frustrated at myself for not getting them sooner. My (usually internal) retort is that I am taking responsibility for these things, that I may be harsh but I'm still fundamentally right. But the other day I was instead told, "That's some pedestal you've got yourself on there. Thinking you're that good," to get immediate, fully satisfying results every time I set out to get them. Anyway, that really took me aback, to think of it in terms of actually feeding my own ego, instead of abusing my ego like I'd thought I was doing.
the image and essence of what I CAN be. The goal.
Main issue being repairing my disconnect with reality, second being the security and future of my family. I only put my sanity first because I have to do that before I can effectively do the other.
eyes open wider every day
The "journey without end" has begun.
Excellent!
On the subject of personal responsibility vs. admitting powerlessness, I had it presented to me recently in a novel way.
The typical thing that I get chastised for is that I'm "too hard on myself"--too demanding for results, and too frustrated at myself for not getting them sooner. My (usually internal) retort is that I am taking responsibility for these things, that I may be harsh but I'm still fundamentally right. But the other day I was instead told, "That's some pedestal you've got yourself on there. Thinking you're that good," to get immediate, fully satisfying results every time I set out to get them. Anyway, that really took me aback, to think of it in terms of actually feeding my own ego, instead of abusing my ego like I'd thought I was doing.
A clodfobble brain ego feedback loop could wreak havoc on a small city, be careful CF.
Jim, good luck. As everybody has said, coming clean about the problem is a big first step. I'm very sympathetic, based on some of the things I've had to deal with. Drop me a line if you need anything.
Hugs to you and Jinx, Jim.
I've always been told that you have to fix yourself FOR yourself first.
Then the rest will follow.
I'm thinking good thoughs for success for you.
Good thought coming your way big guy.
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]I will be honest with myself and others today[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]I will see things as they are[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]I will do the things that need to be done[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]I will act like the man I want to become
[/FONT][/COLOR]
This meditation is completely different when I try it-inpublic. ;)
ATTN LumberJim: Do something that makes you laugh.
Right now!
I dare ya.
:D
Very good Jim - I like that
ATTN LumberJim: Do something that makes you laugh.
Right now!
I dare ya.
:D
:) In AA that's known as rule #62:
Don't take yourself so seriously.
My biggest enemy in recovering from my addictions was my own brain. Oh I could argue my willpower into submission like none other! Such reasonable arguements too!
No one will know. (I will)
It's just this once. (It won't be)
It's not hurting anyone. (It's hurting ME)
I can't go without. (Yes I can)
I'll do better tomorrow. (Do better NOW)
I need this. (No, I don't)
It's just ___<Insert justification here>___ . (Shut up self, I am stronger than this desire)
Everybody does it. (Not me.)
It helps if you can identify your self-talk and overwrite them with talk designed to control the addiction.
That belongs in the Hall of fame Stormie!
Only thing I'd change is the last one
Everybody does it. (No They don't)
Oh that is Excellent Stormie!!!
That is pretty similar to what I do, but requires less introspection... which for me is actually better... I'm so very OCD.
I've gone through The Work of Byron Katie... if you aren't familiar she pretty much gives you the tools you need in her book titled Loving What Is. It changed my life.
LJ... I sincerely hope this proves an opportunity to create a deeper bond between you and Jinx. I wish you guys the best.
LJ... I sincerely hope this proves an opportunity to create a deeper bond between you and Jinx. I wish you guys the best.
thanks, Pooka.
Today, my mind is thinking of how I neglected that bond. If I get another chance, you can bet your life I will not make the same mistake again. This has become a larger issue than the eating. The eating may be at the root of it, it may be a collateral result of something else. I don't really know. Standing outside of the circle gives you a much clearer perspective on things.
I AM a loving husband. I expressed my love constantly in words. I believed what I was saying too. I was telling myself that everything I was doing, I was doing to keep them all happy. But I was doing it the same way I was eating to be happy. Satisfying the momentary desires at the cost of the future. I feel love. I say I love. My actions, however, were not expressing love. I can see that very clearly now. In the end, it was hurtful, not loving. Ask me if i regret that.
I'm sorry to be maudlin, but I'm in a glass case of emotion here.
thanks, Pooka.
Today, my mind is thinking of how I neglected that bond. If I get another chance, you can bet your life I will not make the same mistake again. This has become a larger issue than the eating. The eating may be at the root of it, it may be a collateral result of something else. I don't really know. Standing outside of the circle gives you a much clearer perspective on things.
I AM a loving husband. I expressed my love constantly in words. I believed what I was saying too. I was telling myself that everything I was doing, I was doing to keep them all happy. But I was doing it the same way I was eating to be happy. Satisfying the momentary desires at the cost of the future. I feel love. I say I love. My actions, however, were not expressing love. I can see that very clearly now. In the end, it was hurtful, not loving. Ask me if i regret that.
I'm sorry to be maudlin, but I'm in a glass case of emotion here.
Oh, I do hope that you all get another chance.
Sometimes tough love is better, although it's, well, tougher.
When you're not wealthy, but do have a large cash flow, it's easy to put things off thinking it'll work out. The squeals of delight, and adoration, produced by providing the "extras", are very intoxicating.
LJ, The book Wolf mentioned, The Five Love Languages (or somethign like that) is another good book to add to your reading list, but the gist of it is:
Everyone expresses love and experiences feeling loved in different ways. He has a multiple choice quiz that asks Qs like: "Would you rather go on a long walk with your lover or have a long talk?" after answering the questions you determine if your "love language" is touch, communication, quality time, acts of service, and I forget the other.
For example, couples can have problems if one person's love language is "communication" and the other's is "acts of service."
Why does she feel I don't love her? I tell her so all the time. vs. He doesn't love me, he never fixes things or picks up things at the store when I ask him to. etc etc
It is a quick read and helps determine if you are speaking in a language the other person doesn't understand.
Sometimes tough love is better, although it's, well, tougher.
When you're not wealthy, but do have a large cash flow, it's easy to put things off thinking it'll work out. The squeals of delight, and adoration, produced by providing the "extras", are very intoxicating.
I should point out that jinx is ridiculously low maintenance. There were no baubles, or squeals of delight. She doesn't get hairdos or buy makeup or shoes or anything. I was in charge of the money and was not budgeting. I just figured I could simply make more.
I'm going to dummy up for a while now and concentrate on finding and repairing whatever hole I have inside me that I was trying to fill with food and other excesses. Thanks for the advice and reading tips.
I love you guys too.
I was thinking of the kids, like trampoline and such, but anyway, do what ever works for you and we'll be here when you get back. :cool:
The "simply make more" thing is how the recession hits commission-based incomes. it's a stealth bomb. it should work, it used to work.... work harder, earn more. But now, not so much. :(
I hope everything works out right for you and jinx.
I was thinking of the kids...
ah. my apologies. I misunderstood.
Jim,
As you know, I'm overweight. I did have some success with WW until the meeting place I went to at lunch closed down. I found that picking the high bulk foods that I like helped.
I'm lucky I like cabbage. Pound for calorie, that stuff really makes me feel full fast. Eat shredded cabbage and fat free dressing every day if you can stand it.
If you're unrestricted on sodium, consider
sauerkraut. Here's a
top link to the nutrition data site that I used for the sauerkraut analysis.
I have a big file of low-fat crock pot recipes I was sending to Cellarites. Let me know if you want a copy.
Rich, have you tried eating whole, real foods in a conscious way rather than trying to "feel full fast" and eating fat free (artificial) dressing.
Your body is much smarter than you realize. I can't imagine "feeling full" is comfortable for you, it isn't for me. Feeling full and satisfied are two different things.
I just recently finished a 21 day "diet" if you will where I could eat as much as I wanted of any fresh fruits or veggies, olive oil, cooked veggies, and a half cup of brown rice or lentils a day. I felt full a lot and I felt hungry a lot, it took about a week for me to get in tune with what my body wanted and not what my mind felt it needed to have.
After the second week, I could add a few ounces of chicken per day. I quickly lost interest in junk foods and the few times I put refined food (even artisananl whole wheat bread) it tasted like cardboard, not like food.
At the end of the 21 days I learned to distinguish real food and nutrition from "filler"
Try eating as much raw fruit and veggies as you want for a week, skip anything that is processed or refined. See how you feel.
The book Loving What Is, helped me learn to love myself
Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University helped Flint and me get on the same page financially discuss our money mistakes... air it out, design a game plan, pay off $20K, learn to be financial partners in this marriage and learn to live within our means.
And the HCG diet is helping me break my food issues...
I spent years in therapy and nothing has helped me the way these three things have. The secret is not in the specific plans I mention above, but in the support I had/ have during each.
My best friend gave me the book by Byron Katie, she had done the Work herself and I had the opportunity to watch her blossom while doing it, she was there to encourage me and help me see myself and situations I found myself in as they are… letting go of the story lines in my head that were the real source of my pain, anger, fear, frustration. Flint and I went through Dave Ramsey’s program together, you have support of other couples… you learn to live differently and have new goal and are supported by others who have been where you are and are headed in the same direction as you… to a debt free existence. 3 of my best friends are doing this diet with me… I don’t eat out … I can’t (which works just great for our budget). I bring my food with me in a little cooler everywhere I go. The most amazing thing is that I’m not only not hungry on this, I have no interest in food… I can cook it… I know it would taste good, but eating it doesn’t matter to me any more… holy crap what a change for me.
I guess what I’m saying is … it isn’t so important the road you take to where you want to be in life as much as the support you have on your journey.
Pretty intense stuff LJ. There is a ton of good advice here. I think putting Jinx in charge of the money is important, but it becomes your job not to resent that loss of control. Another idea for a higher power is your position as ancestor. How do you set your children up to live to their potential, so their children can be joyful and productive? The decisions you make now set their expectations. Addressing this issue honestly and openly will give them tools. You are brave enough to do this brother. Keep it simple. Good luck to you both.
I'll second Dave Ramsey ... his Total Money Makeover book and plan is excellent, and surprisingly simple to follow.
Pretty intense stuff LJ. .... I think putting Jinx in charge of the money is important, but it becomes your job not to resent that loss of control. ...
This is tricky with the "man must earn and control the money" ethos that abounds everywhere, and probably particularly in your line of work, LJ.
Can you learn to feel proud of knowing your own weaknesses and your strengths as a couple and choosing the right way to use these to manage your money for the well-being of your family?
On another note, I eat too much, not compulsively, just too much snacking out of boredom and/or as a displacement activity. I'm inspired by you, LJ, to really try to get a grip on this now (not next week, or soon, or later, as I've kept telling myself for far too long) and now really think about what I'm eating and why. This means I feel hungry every day at some point, but that's not a bad thing at all. I could certainly use losing 28-42lb myself ...
fixing my body is easy at this point. It comes under the heading: Things I can control.
Fixing my mind is slightly more challenging, but doable.
Fixing the damage I did to the trust in our marriage.... I can't really control that.
I have to learn to accept that fact, and just pray and trust that if I do handle the things I can control that, hopefully.... things will work out.
He knows how to diet. He knows how to manage money. He understands the consequences of not doing these things.
The problem isn't overeating, or overspending. The problems are dishonesty, sneakiness, the need to be getting away with something, the need to be destructive. This is what he needs help with. This is what I can't understand and don't want to be around anymore.
I find out something fucked up, somehow, not from him, and I confront him with it. He makes excuses, apologies, promises.... says anything he thinks I want to hear to make it go away. Doesn't mean any of it, just keeps on doing, until the next fucked up thing pops up. These things become a pattern of behavior on top of the actual issue of the moment - but that's on me. That makes me unforgiving.
He knows the things he does are wrong so he hides them from me. If I don't ask direct and specific questions, I'll never find out, and it's all good in his mind. Over and over and over again for years and years and years. He's even recruited friends to hide things from me.
It's all on me, but it's all hidden from me so I can't really do anything about it. And now the trust and our marriage is all on me. He even told the kids that - that he doesn't want to split up, that it's all my decision.
I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm screwed either way.
I'm sorry Jinx. That is a terrible position to be in. :sniff: I hope everything works out.
I hope he is able to identify why he feels the need to hid these things and is able to work through it.
I wish you both the best.:hug:
Sorry Jinx. I know how effed up this type of thing can be.
All I can offer at the moment is to try and let the dust settle a bit and not make any rash decisions just yet. Let the dust settle...
He knows how to diet. He knows how to manage money. He understands the consequences of not doing these things.
The problem isn't overeating, or overspending. The problems are dishonesty, sneakiness, the need to be getting away with something, the need to be destructive. This is what he needs help with. This is what I can't understand and don't want to be around anymore.
I find out something fucked up, somehow, not from him, and I confront him with it. He makes excuses, apologies, promises.... says anything he thinks I want to hear to make it go away. Doesn't mean any of it, just keeps on doing, until the next fucked up thing pops up. These things become a pattern of behavior on top of the actual issue of the moment - but that's on me. That makes me unforgiving.
He knows the things he does are wrong so he hides them from me. If I don't ask direct and specific questions, I'll never find out, and it's all good in his mind. Over and over and over again for years and years and years. He's even recruited friends to hide things from me.
It's all on me, but it's all hidden from me so I can't really do anything about it. And now the trust and our marriage is all on me. He even told the kids that - that he doesn't want to split up, that it's all my decision.
I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm screwed either way.
that's all true.
I will change.
I'm sorry about what I said to the kids. I told them that as soon as you were ready to let me back in, I was there. I did not think of the position it puts you in with them. I was trying to assure them that I was working hard to get back with you. mea culpa.
It's not all on you, jinx.
I don't have any sage advice for you guys, but I'm rooting for you both.
There's got to be a middle way. People generally lie when they are trying to avoid "punishment" for something. They don't want to get in trouble, so they lie to avoid it. Take away the punishment, and you take away the motivation for lying. At the same time, structuring your lives differently so that the bad behavior is less of an option should reduce incidents of it. If it's money, taking control of the finances. If it's something else, there may be other things you guys can do.
Of course, saying to him he won't get in trouble when he's doing whatever he's doing assumes that the behavior is something you can live with when it does happen. If the bad behavior is a deal breaker, then it's not going to work.
I'm on the outside, so I have no idea what you guys are dealing with. But you can probably find a middle way if you look for it.
I feel very bad about this whole thread.
I wanted to share my failure so I could identify what I've done wrong, and work on fixing it. I did not intend to position jinx in a way that this is all her fault for throwing me out.... which is how it seems. I did not intend to use the kids to pressure her. not consciously... that's horrible.
I need to stop posting in this thread now. I just keep doing more damage to a very fragile thing.
That's not the impression that I got. What Jinx added (and thank you, Jinx, as we all gain from it) is pretty much what I assumed, after hearing your story of it. It never seemed all on her. It seemed, and it still seems, like the kind of dance that all deep relationships go through.
Iagree with UT. This may also be a great place to put [/thread] at least temporarily.
They both are in a very difficult place right now, but on opposite ends of the spectrum. As a wife and mother who is laying down the law to protect herself and her children, Jinx's position is extremely challenging. Her position is righteous but also wrought with guilt. My mother did the same thing.
I agree with UT. I never took it in any way that LJ was putting it on Jinx... more that he was confessing his short comings and wanting to correct the problems he has and has created... and most importantly his desire to repair the relationship.
I think most of us have been there... on both sides. But most importantly we are all here supporting you both... as individuals and as a couple.
I sense the LJ and Pooka need to take this private.
In any case, I won't be reading this thread any more.
Best wishes to both and their family.
I think you meant LJ and Jinx... I am married to Flint and we are all good for the now... thank you though.
That's not the impression that I got. What Jinx added (and thank you, Jinx, as we all gain from it) is pretty much what I assumed, after hearing your story of it. It never seemed all on her. It seemed, and it still seems, like the kind of dance that all deep relationships go through.
What he said.
It's not all on you, jinx.
There's got to be a middle way. People generally lie when they are trying to avoid "punishment" for something. They don't want to get in trouble, so they lie to avoid it. Take away the punishment, and you take away the motivation for lying. At the same time, structuring your lives differently so that the bad behavior is less of an option should reduce incidents of it. If it's money, taking control of the finances. If it's something else, there may be other things you guys can do.
Of course, saying to him he won't get in trouble when he's doing whatever he's doing assumes that the behavior is something you can live with when it does happen. If the bad behavior is a deal breaker, then it's not going to work.
I'm on the outside, so I have no idea what you guys are dealing with. But you can probably find a middle way if you look for it.
Thanks glatt. A middle way would be good.
Right now, from my perspective, Jim
does want to be in trouble. He wants me to act like a mom to him. We've discussed this, and that I'm not into it several times.
Any action can, and has been, taken to the deal breaker level if one tries hard enough - that's the reason I stepped in to steer the help towards the problem and not the specific actions. I'd like to figure out the motivation for the deal breaking shit. The obvious one is that one wants out of the relationship. If that's not it, then what?
And I'm sorry, I'm not normally a 'dirty laundry' type person. It makes me uncomfortable too.
[COLOR="Gray"]I think it might be called a mid-life-crisis by some.[/COLOR]
(I wish you both all the best and hope you get it worked out)
... I'd like to figure out the motivation for the deal breaking shit. The obvious one is that one wants out of the relationship. If that's not it, then what?
jinx, I would be willing to guess that is not the case, but since I don't really know either of you I can't say for sure, but I bet that isn't it. People sabotage themselves for a lot of reasons, most of them unconscious. The older I get the more it seems to me that all of us are starring in a play that we are writing called "This is the story of my life" It's easy for me to see it in my MIL. She was a child in Germany during WWII, they were refugees, they were poor, the city was bombed, it was chaos and destruction. This woman re creates that chaos and destruction, literally, in her life. It's as if she is saying, through her life and actions: "Look! Look at what happened to me!"
I think all of us have had some sort of tragedy in our lives as kids or teens or adults. We often get "Stuck" there and we keep reliving it, recreating it.
Consider joining an ACOA or CODA group I think it will give you a lot of perspective into Jim's behavior as well as give you ways to cope and protect your own mental health. Mrs. Nutkin began to go after the whole meltdown with her mom a year or so ago, it has helped her immeasurably in dealing with her batshit insane mother. And Jim isn't so batshit insane as all that.
Also, I'd recommend you read "No more Mr. Nice Guy" as well as Jim. The book is exactly about what you are describing in Jim's behaviour.
The book Loving What Is, helped me learn to love myself
My best friend gave me the book by Byron Katie, she had done the Work herself and I had the opportunity to watch her blossom while doing it, she was there to encourage me and help me see myself and situations I found myself in as they are… letting go of the story lines in my head that were the real source of my pain, anger, fear, frustration.
a free pdf of the short version of this book
download the worksheets, etc
I'm just cracking this book, but will be giving it a real go. Her method seems sound, and I find myself grinning when I begin to see how it breaks up assumptions and investigates thoughts and 'stories' to determine their truth.
Her method seems sound...
Willard: They told me that you had gone totally insane, and that your methods were unsound.
Kurtz: Are my methods unsound?
Willard: I don't see any method at all, sir.
Well, do I ever feel like a shitheel. Not only was I not aware of this until this evening, I've been around here so little that no one passed it on to me until tonight.
As someone whose marriage is teetering on the brink, albeit for different reasons, just let me say that I feel for both of you. It's sort of like hearing the Homecoming King and Queen broke up or something.
I know that you two are both intelligent and articulate, and that you feel things deeply. These three things will help you as you sort out the issues and plan a future.
In the meantime, I think you're both very special, and will keep you in my thoughts.