Self Policing Militia Summons
The problem as I see it:
It is nearly impossible at this point to discuss anything political or current event related without Redux, classicman and TheMercenary squabbling and spamming that thread up with their unending partisan BULLSHIT.
Sorry, to two if you about this, I like you individually, and regret the need for doing this thread this way. I did try to affect change in general terms, but that changed nothing, and you 3 seem unable to stop.
I see 2 possible solutions. (well 3 if you include telling me to stfu and to continue as is)
1. A temporary ban on the three of them for one month if they do not immediately cease hostilities. Follow that with a 'parole period' in which they can redeem themselves.
2. Some type of VB electric dog collar that keeps them out of the main board, and limits them to their own forum where they can wage war upon each other without wrecking the adult's discussion.
I'll probably catch hell for this. (I'm sure spexnemesisxvet will have a divergent opinion) I'm sure I'll be hurting some feelings and pride, and again....sorry. But this is the cellar, and I love it. Considering all that, I think it's worth the short term damage this will cause. My vote is just that. one vote. one opinion. You may disagree. You may have another idea of how to fix what's wrong even if you DO agree with me.
OK... pass me the blindfold.
Yeah, I'm the only one with a divergent opinion around here. :eyebrow:
no, you're just the only one SURE to have an opinion that diverges from mine.
I don't know what the solution is, but I'd lump spex in as part of the problem too. It's the 4 of them. I wish they would all stop posting anything related to current events/politics.
Maybe if all 4 could address the issue instead of one another. Or get a instant messenger then they could sit and insult each other all night and day without the rest of the cellar being bored to tears.
I like the idea of the electronic collar and or the spank ray. I have to agree about the need for things to be done to encourage civility and respectful discussion. The three you mentioned may be the worst offenders, I don't really know, I don't keep track. I have found them at times to be over the top and at other times to be friendly.
Warnings, parole, bans? Maybe this should have been a poll, a jury of their peers?
There is this 'report post' button. It would be interesting to see what happens if everyone began using it.
I agree SN.
This isn't about liking them. I like them well enough but the absence of being able to read an engaging discussion or even participating is nil.
The way I deal with it:
1) I never go in the politics forum.
2) When reviewing new posts in teh Cellar if'n it's in politics I don't open the thread however enticing the topic may seem to me personally.
2) Quite early on I notice when a thread starts to drift towards political and I ignore it (no button, just remember that it's dull) until it goes away.
That being said, I like the idea of a spankray, but only if it's on webcam ;).
I agree with Limey above. Of course, that means that none of the rest of us can have a reasonable political discussion with each other . . . if there even is such a thing.
that means that none of the rest of us can have a reasonable political discussion with each other . . . if there even is such a thing.
there used to be. ask griff
I hate the word association thread. I can't ignore it, so might we get rid of it also?
I like the politics and current events forums, in fact they are what brought me here initially, so I don't want to see them go away but I also hate the fact that they have become a virtual wasteland devoid of reason.
I miss the old atmosphere in those forums. The Cellar is ever evolving so I get that it can't stay the same but the fact of the matter is while we used to get heated in our disagreements it generally wasn't a personal shitslinging fest with perpetual cut and paste posts. While I can't think of a single time Happy Monkey (just an example) or I started on the same side of a political discussion I know my own opinions have been influenced by information he has brought to my attention. I don't know that those forums have actually ever caused any of us to shift 180 degrees but we certainly each have our own slant on things that can help others get a more complete picture of the issues. I am quite certain that dana is still a flaming commie pinko, but by discussing political and social issues with someone like me she can at least say she knows not all conservatives eat puppies for breakfast and put the heads of the poor on pikes just for fun.
OK, I may have gotten a little off track there, but I guess what I'm saying is I'm willing to try anything* if it will help bring some civility back to the community and bring more participants back to the politics and current event forums.
*I was surprised to find that at least a couple dwellars see me as one of the problem kids, so if that is the general consensus then I will willingly go along with whatever the community feels is best for, er... the community.
I hate the word association thread. I can't ignore it, so might we get rid of it also?
One thread versus any current event subject that ever comes up in multiple forums with the constant arguments carried over to other forum/threads.
Redux has said he doesn't care how this affects the community, Classicman condemns the behavior and then keeps right on doing it.
that means that none of the rest of us can have a reasonable political discussion with each other
Sucks.
I was always fond of the Puppy Solution.
That worked on people with Rage issues, but I don't really see that as an effective option for posters who really don't care what anyone else thinks.
I was always fond of the Puppy Solution.
I was always fond of the Human Centipede Solution.
I was always fond of the Puppy Solution.
??? No Biscuit???
Que?
:redcard::vomitblu::vomit:
Flint, you're just wrong.
??? No Biscuit???
Que?
She's talking about always changing the subject to dogs to drive a particular poster away.
[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR]
I hate the word association thread. I can't ignore it, so might we get rid of it also?
Do you disagree with what I've said here, Shawnee?
I agree that things get ugly in the politics threads. I admit that I have been an offender.
That's what politics do to people. We've had some heated discussions about religion too.
I don't know, it seems that these things work themselves out, eventually. In defense of Redux, I've seen (and been part of) a lot of the crap before he even came on the scene. I've heard him actually make some decent points, responding in kind only when the popcorn starts.
Then what is the common denominator?
*shrugs* I don't think it matters, really. I certainly have my opinions on coming in and reading 8 posts in a row of merc eating popcorn, saying demoncrat whores, shill, fail...whatever. Does that mean anything? No. Should it? No.
Impose time-outs? Nah. I don't think that's any kind of solution.
Not getting attention for it would seem a better solution than getting negative attention for it, especially if the big purpose is to get a rise and watch the fun, and I don't rule that out.
Having said that, I really hate word association! I have to stay out because I get so riled.
Wiled.
Wild.
Child.
Kid.
Goat.
:lol:
Here's an idea, Jim. You're well respected here. When someone posts a dismissive or insulting post, tell them to stop. Remember how obedient Classic was, when you told him to stop kicking the retarded kid? I'll bet Merc will listen to you, too. I don't want to sound like "they started it", but I will bet you that if you get merc and classic to stop, redux and I will have no reason to be asshats.
I'm sure the hostility expressed by some does keep people from posting in the Politics forum. People have their viewpoints and, however illogical we may think they are, they are theirs.
What I hate is the holier than thou attitude of a certain someone who tends to berate those who disagree with him/her. I can respect your opinion even though I disagree with it. We, however, are racist, homophobic, gun-loving tea-baggers for our views.
Why can't we have a lively discussion...agree to disagree and not resort to name calling.
Oh, and I say violators are sent to Pakistan with a pistol, sword and night vision equipment and made to hunt down Osama Bin Laden. :D
What I hate is the holier than thou attitude of a certain someone who tends to berate those who disagree with him/her. I can respect your opinion even though I disagree with it. We, however, are racist, homophobic, gun-loving tea-baggers for our views.
Yep. Us demoncratic shill whore martyr bleeding heart bums know how that feels. :p:
*shrugs* I don't think it matters, really. I certainly have my opinions on coming in and reading 8 posts in a row of merc eating popcorn, saying demoncrat whores, shill, fail...whatever. Does that mean anything? No. Should it? No.
Why don't you think it should mean anything? I think it means something... It's a bullshit way to act, completely selfish and rude. Typical of most of the internet which is why people come/stay here instead.
It seems like so much resentment has built up at this point, like someone else said, it's not even about the issues being discussed anymore. But as soon as people try to discuss an issue, the same fight starts among the same people for page after page...
this is a job for the moderators to handle. we haz moderators, don't we?
if the actions of a few are ruining it for the rest of us, the mods have the right and duty to take action in whatever way they see fit, including deletions, suspensions, etc.
Why don't you think it should mean anything? I think it means something... It's a bullshit way to act, completely selfish and rude. Typical of most of the internet which is why people come/stay here instead.
It seems like so much resentment has built up at this point, like someone else said, it's not even about the issues being discussed anymore. But as soon as people try to discuss an issue, the same fight starts among the same people for page after page...
I meant that how
I feel about it doesn't really mean anything, to anyone but me. I've joined right in, I know. I have fire-temper, and it pisses me right off. I don't see the good "underneath" like so many have professed...so my feelings toward that person are irrelevant to that person's dealings with other persons here; obviously there is a side I've never seen.
I have resentment...big time. That is
my problem to deal with. I've been going along thinking those things have been sanctioned in certain cases, and maybe I haven't been looking at the big picture.
So what you're saying is true: it's not so much that these things can't be ignored, it's that no one can have a discussion anymore.
Another forum I frequent has moderators dimming out posts that are gratuitously insulting, with the explanation DBAJ (Don't Be A Jerk). Although we don't have the technology here, maybe once the name calling starts mods should delete posts and give DBAJ as a reason?
But then the mods really shouldn't have to do that, should they?
@ cloud's last post
That's why I made this thread... so we could ALL talk about it, and ask the admin to act if that's the consensus.
Just as another data point -- I used to post in current events and politics from time to time, but don't anymore. There used to be moments of actual useful information. Now it's all canned propaganda. And meanness.
The mods who we all know and love typically stay out of most things. They don't stomp in with the banhammer very often because they expect that most dwellars are adults and will police themselves. From what I understand it was like that long before I got here and I don't expect that to change. This is a self-policing community so LJ's call to arms seems reasonable.
Now the question is whether this thread will just be a continuation of the "I'll stop throwing my shit at that asshole if he quits being a cuntface" behavior we see in other threads.
Gonorrhea-dripping cuntface, as it were...
@ cloud's last post
That's why I made this thread... so we could ALL talk about it, and ask the admin to act if that's the consensus.
I don't see the necessity. All we have now is another divisive thread. The mods should talk among themselves and decide--that's their job.
Gonorrhea-dripping cuntface, as it were...
*snort*
I don't see the necessity. All we have now is another divisive thread. The mods should talk among themselves and decide--that's their job.
You see this thread as divisive? I guess it is by definition... but it seems like most of the people posting in this thread at least agree that the issue exists. Unifying in that respect.
Damn you Lookout! You do too eat puppies!
I wouldn;t say I avoid the politics forum entirely. Mainly, I go by the 'new posts' search and don't really look at which forum they're in. That said, recently I have found myself clicking links and seeing a page of to'n'fro I just don't bother reading it, and go find something else instead.
I'm not sure what the answer is really. I'm not even entirely sure what the problem is. I mean, like Lookout said, we used to have very heated debates. Hell quite a few of us have fallen out , or come close, in discussions that hit our political, or moral buttons. We've dropped into flame wars with each other, taken sides and formed impromptu mini-factions, played out our conflicts and then played Three Word At A Time stories with each other.
I can't quite put my finger on why it is different now. What about it is different to what we were doing before. It's not that it gets personal now, because there was always that edge to political debate. It's not that there are feuds going on, because there always were.
*shrugs*
[eta] I am rather glad this has been brought up actually. I think it's right that we, as a community discuss this sort of thing. After all, if the mods were to start wielding amighty banhammer, or deleting/closing threads, or suspending members for the kinds of thing we've been discussin, then that would represent a distinct change in their style of moderation: that is something the community needs to be involved with I think.
Also: I don't think the mods should be jumping on any post that gets personal or insulting. We're grownups we can handle a bit of insult. It's the scale and frequency of a particular kind of argument I think that is causing the problems.
*I was surprised to find that at least a couple dwellars see me as one of the problem kids, so if that is the general consensus then I will willingly go along with whatever the community feels is best for, er... the community.
That is really a problem of the present tone. Any time we post in politics we risk being lumped in with whichever
team claims similar ground. Even if we did shut them down for a little while there would be a recovery period. Politics would still be a little clumsy for a while. I find it pretty sad that having pointless conflict is more important to some than continuation of community and learning about how real people all over this world really live, think, and be. The Cellar is worth defending.
this is a job for the moderators to handle. we haz moderators, don't we?
if the actions of a few are ruining it for the rest of us, the mods have the right and duty to take action in whatever way they see fit, including deletions, suspensions, etc.
This discussion is what protects the mods from shrill cries of abuse. We need something approaching consensus to justify action.
I can't quite put my finger on why it is different now. What about it is different to what we were doing before. It's not that it gets personal now, because there was always that edge to political debate. It's not that there are feuds going on, because there always were.
I think it is about people caring more about their politics than about people. This is turning into a cultural problem in the States and gets in the way of actually addressing problems.
[eta] I am rather glad this has been brought up actually. I think it's right that we, as a community discuss this sort of thing. After all, if the mods were to start wielding amighty banhammer, or deleting/closing threads, or suspending members for the kinds of thing we've been discussin, then that would represent a distinct change in their style of moderation: that is something the community needs to be involved with I think.
Oops, you made my point first.
This discussion is what protects the mods from shrill cries of abuse. We need something approaching consensus to justify action.
Very astute point!
I think it is about people caring more about their politics than about people. This is turning into a cultural problem in the States and gets in the way of actually addressing problems.
Ouch :us: A big hurts :donut:
I chose to put the individuals on ignore several days ago. I haven't read a post nor typed a word to either of them since. I plan on continuing. If I do I request that I be banned, temporarily or permanently, mods'/UT's choice.
That good enough?
Dana - of course I eat puppies, but not EVERY morning.
Classic - I think that's a great gesture but that's just treating a symptom, not finding a cure. Your posts are only a part of the problem so all this really does is reduce the volume a bit or in all honesty really just remove one of the popular targets.
IMO any "fix" that doesn't put us on the path to intelligent interaction (at least most of the time)in the politics and current events is a just a big old fail.
Ahhhh, I hate this damn blackberry! Hopefully at least some of what I was trying to say came through.
Well aside from my interaction with them I think it has been fine. I guess what I was saying is that if all the aforementioned parties agree to the terms then that would/could/should solve the problem.
IMO any "fix" that doesn't put us on the path to intelligent interaction (at least most of the time)in the politics and current events is a just a big old fail.
Lookout and Lumberjim:
I am curioius, do you think this....
Well done Comrade. Your party is proud of you.
... as a response to this:
The GAO released its report yesterday that reviewed ACORN's federal funding at the request of the ACORN-bashing members of Congress and found no evidence of fraud, lax oversight or misuse of federal funds.
The GAO also conducted a comprehensive review of all criminal investigations of ACORN by the Department of Justice and federal Inspector General’s since 2005. The report said that of six FBI investigations into ACORN-related voter fraud all had been dropped because of lack of evidence. Only cases against individuals working for ACORN were prosecuted....and ACORN provided information to local election officials that helped initiate prosecutions against their employees who may have been involved in voter registration fraud.”
The agency also found the Federal Election Commission had closed all investigations into voter fraud by the group.
GAO report
Looks to me like ACORN did nothing criminal or even unethical, on the grant side or the political/voter registration side...despite all the presumption of guilt bandied about by its political enemies.
.....
contributes to a path to intellectual interaction?
OR this....
Bullshit.
as response to this:
This has nothing to do with illegal immigrants and making then citizens.
Using at-large elections to increase or maintain the influence of the White majority or conversely, decrease or discourage the representation of minorities in a community has been a long-standing violation of the Voting Rights Act under all administrations since it was enacted (well, except for Bush).
...
.contributes to a path to intellectual interaction?
Or this....
NO, they are employed by the same whores you suck up to.
or:
Good Job Comrade! You have achieved the highest level of support of your party!
or:
You failed.
:corn:
....to nearly every other post I make....
contributes to a path to intellectual interaction?
Sure...I am party of the problem and I have responded to posts in a manner that has not been constructive. I dont deny it at all.
I could choose to ignore posts/responses like the above...but tell me...isnt that "treating the symptom and not finding a cure"?
I know he's your friend...but fix that, and you have my promise that I will keep it respectful as well.
Redux for the Ban.
Thats one way to deal with it. :)
I see what you are saying but while this may just be my bias showing, I don't think some bizarre 4 way non-aggression treaty will really change the vibe. They do a great job of winding you up and you respond in ways that you shouldn't but in your defense, your vitriol is usually aimed at 2 people in particular(not that it is better, there just isn't as much collateral damage). It is a PERSONAL battle you're in whereas the those other 2 get shitty with anyone who doesn't agree with them on a consistant basis.
While none of us are spotless in this problem I can remember a time when classic was a frequent poster and things weren't nasty and personal. I don't remember a time where redux or spexx were active that the shit wasn't consistantly flying in all directions.
Biased or not, that's my 2 cents.
Lookout....seriously, I am open to suggestions on how to respond to posts like The Mercinary's typical ones above to nearly every substantive post I (or spexx or even others) make.
Were my posts above not respectful, addressing the issue and not personal? Were his responses?
As I said, ignoring him in an option..but IMO, that is not addressing the problem.
Thats one way to deal with it. :)
it's the only way in your case. We're all sick of you bringing shit from one forum and wiping it all over the board. Even here You are a professional dingleberry. You certainly need to use that as a use title if you don't get banned,
it's the only way in your case. We're all sick of you bringing shit from one forum and wiping it all over the board. Even here You are a professional dingleberry. You certainly need to use that as a use title if you don't get banned,
Thanks....that is very helpful, despite the fact that I dont wipe shit all over the board. I pretty much stick to politics and curent events unless called out by name.
Lookout....seriously, I am open to suggestions on how to respond to posts like The Mercinary's typical ones above to nearly every substantive post I (or spexx or even others) make.
Were my posts above not respectful, addressing the issue and not personal? Were his responses?
As I said, ignoring him in an option..but IMO, that is not addressing the problem.
DON'T RESPOND! Duh! Yes it does address the problem. no response = no counter-response. Probelm Solved. Only a Dingleberry wouldn't see that.
Redux, I'm not going to argue that Merc's posts are a positive. They aren't. I've said so in the past before I threw in the towel and quit engaging in those forums as much as I did.
My politics don't align with Merc's but we do share some common ground - that doesn't mean I stand with him in everything he says. I view the cellar as a place to interact... Sort of like a bar. You seem to see it as a team sport. I don't get that. As a very unwise politician once said...'If you aren't with me, ur against me...'.
But a wise jedi knows that only a sith deals in absolutes. ;)
Thanks....that is very helpful, despite the fact that I dont wipe shit all over the board. I pretty much stick to politics and curent events unless called out by name.
hooyah. ban. Your opinion of yourself is way too high. And your maturity level way too low. unless you are actually 12.
Huh...a team sport?
All I want is for my respectful posts like those above to be treated respectfully or ignored...and not face a personal attack ad nauseum by one person, who obviously has better connections with many here.
IMO, it looks to me that you only really want to address half the problem.
Thats your right....and UT can ban me any time to make Monster happy. :)
Say Redux, what positive things have you done for this board? Specifically?
Say Redux, what positive things have you done for this board? Specifically?
Honestly, Monster...I dont really think you would look objectively....but look at the examples above.
And with that i'm done with this. Reply at will but you won't get a further response.
EDIT: oh scrap that i lied. WIMP. suck it and see.
it's the only way in your case. We're all sick of you bringing shit from one forum and wiping it all over the board.
No we aren't.
Name one. Give me a chance...
No we aren't.
sorry, I edited that mentally but not physically to say "pretty much all of us"
It is a bizarre false equivalency that has come up around Redux and Merc. Can anyone come up with an equivalent to
post 46, but with the roles reversed?
I dunno, but right now i'm really hoping no-one invokes Rule 34.
Monster...I am open to suggestions on how to improve my posts.
But please tell me how my posts offering a perspective on the Voting Rights Act or a post on the UN treaty on small arms...or my post on the recent FTC action on journalism and the internet were offensive rather than an honest attempt to address what, IMO, was a misrepresentation of the facts.
Or how providing budget, enforcement and crime data in the AZ immigration discussion was disrespectful?
All I get is the same old responses (failed, bullshit, partisan suck up....) to whatever I post..and yes, I respond in kind.
INVOKE RULE 34[SIZE="7"][/SIZE]
Don't remember what that is, I'm tired, and I've had a couple beers.
Maybe I should just go over to chat.
I have fire-temper
That's a great turn of phrase. I think you should copyright it. :)
Monster...I am open to suggestions on how to improve my posts.
But please tell me how my posts offering a perspective on the Voting Rights Act or a post on the UN treaty on small arms...or my post on the recent FTC action on journalism and the internet were offensive rather than an honest attempt to address what, IMO, was a misrepresentation of the facts.
Or how providing budget, enforcement and crime data in the AZ immigration discussion was disrespectful?
All I get is the same old responses (failed, bullshit, partisan suck up....) to whatever I post..and yes, I respond in kind.
ARe you diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome? Or anything on that spectrum?
... especially if the big purpose ...
I don't see a big purpose - you mean like a dolphin, right?
ARe you diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome? Or anything on that spectrum?
I thought my questions to you were reasonable...since you made it all about me.
I guess not.
I don't see a big purpose - you mean like a dolphin, right?
I rhink she means like a special purpose....
I thought it was a reasonable question.
I guess not.
I know mne was a reasonable question. I guess I got my answer.
I know mne was a reasonable question. I guess I got my answer.
Cool.
Are you finished now?
This is obviously a very significant issue, based on the number of responses.
I think we should wire up each of the 7 named individuals and have a button on each post saying "Tase the poster," which anyone can push, including the other 6.
Redux for the Ban.
I don't see that. It was pertinent to the discussion and civilly phrased. How was that cause for banning?
Redux
You are not being singled out,not by me and most others.
This started out as a collective problem to solve. You are emotionally involved and it's hard to see it that way. Just look at this objectively and answer this question.
How can we participate in the politics thread?
Monster...I am open to suggestions on how to improve my posts.
Except for that one time you were given suggestions, oh, and the other time, and the one after that, too. Your posts would improve on their own if you actually chose to be a member of the community, because you would actually know the people you were talking to, and that whole "the internet turns everyone into assholes" thing wouldn't be a factor anymore.
But please tell me how...
This is a major part of your problem. Every post is full of this indignant "Tell me how" and "Give me one reason" and "Please explain to me how you" stuff. It's the way a teenager argues with an authority figure. If you have a point, make it. If you have evidence against the other person's point, show it. Anything that starts with "Please tell me how" is useless bickering.
and yes, I respond in kind.
And this is the other major part of your problem. Again, like a teenager, you keep falling back on this "he started it" concept, that you expect us to respond "fairly" to you and your adversaries, or you're going to throw more temper tantrums. No one gives a shit. It's been explained to you repeatedly that when you "respond in kind," you make yourself the asshole, end of story.
It is a bizarre false equivalency that has come up around Redux and Merc. Can anyone come up with an equivalent to post 46, but with the roles reversed?
That is all I was asking...and evidently, many dont want to address it.
I have acknowledged being part of the problem.
I have said I will try to do better.
But unless, Merc makes the same commitment, IMO, nothing will change.
Redux
You are not being singled out,not by me and most others.
This started out as a collective problem to solve. You are emotionally involved and it's hard to see it that way. Just look at this objectively and answer this question.
How can we participate in the politics thread?
Its simple..avoid personal attacks and discourage responses like "failed" ...."bullshit"...."partisan shill" and I will do the same.
And for the record, I apologize for my personal attacks of Classic...they were inappropriate and it wont happen again.
.....and so the vicious cycle of blame and defensiveness continues...
.....and so the vicious cycle of blame and defensiveness continues...
I am sorry that you and Clod see it that way.
"shrug"...I honestly dont know what else to say.
I don't see that. It was pertinent to the discussion and civilly phrased. How was that cause for banning?
YMMV. I'm going for intolerbly irritating. To me, the whole point is that many of us are sick and tired of this shit spilling out of the forums in which it originated -quoting people out of thread and out of forum is always pretty low, but to do it in a thread that's about most of us being sick of this shit is intolerably irritating.
That is all I was asking...and evidently, many dont want to address it.
I have acknowledged being part of the problem.
I have said I will try to do better.
But unless, Merc makes the same commitment, IMO, nothing will change.
I am sure he will. Thanks red
I am sure he will. Thanks red
If so, all will be cool. :D
Thanks!
I am sorry that you and Clod see it that way.
"shrug"...I honestly dont know what else to say.
Actually my post was right after clods. It was blame singularly pointed at you.
As I said before it is not one persons problem.
I said I wasn't singling you out remember?
Actually my post was right after clods. It was blame singularly pointed at you.
As I said before it is not one persons problem.
I said I wasn't singling you out remember?
My apologies. :flower:
People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along? Can we stop making it, making it horrible for the older people and the kids?...It’s just not right. It’s not right. It’s not, it’s not going to change anything. We’ll, we’ll get our justice....Please, we can get along here. We all can get along. I mean, we’re all stuck here for a while. Let’s try to work it out. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to work it out.
My apologies. :flower:
Thanks :)
People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along? Can we stop making it, making it horrible for the older people and the kids?...It’s just not right. It’s not right. It’s not, it’s not going to change anything. We’ll, we’ll get our justice....Please, we can get along here. We all can get along. I mean, we’re all stuck here for a while. Let’s try to work it out. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to work it out.
Why am I smiling. lol
but I agree.
I know it makes you uncomfortable, Cloud, but it's really not healthy to completely internalize and avoid all conflict. And I say this as an extremely non-confrontational person in real life--I very much understand the feeling, but it's impossible to avoid all negativity all the time. If people have a problem, it needs to get talked about. If there was nothing divisive about the issue, then it wouldn't be a problem in the first place. It's not the moderators' place to play Mommy and Daddy.
not divisive, eh?
to remove a cancer, one must divide.
yeah, it is. surely they have enough idea of the nature of the problem, the parties involved, and the choices available to them by now.
not divisive, eh?
define devisive, please. Because it seems to me you see any disagreement as "divisive". I see discussion and argument, but I see no divides.
arguing about arguing without taking any action to solve the problem.
If you don't like the word divisive, how about disruptive? ridiculous? futile?
you'd prefer to ignore the Elephant in the room?
Excuse me, but can you tell me what the meaning of "is" is?
no. I'd prefer for the moderators to do their job and take action to alleviate this long-standing problem.
Personally, I would consider TheMercenary to be intolerably irritating if there were nobody responding to his crap.
Personally, I would consider TheMercenary to be intolerably irritating if there were nobody responding to his crap.
you're saying '
even if there were
nobody responding'?
or is it a typo that should say that you
'wouldn't consider the merc to be intolerably etc...'
I can't tell.
Not a typo. If the forum were full of Merc's cut-and-pastes from right-wing blogs and contentless snipes, and nobody called him on it, I would find that intolerably irritating. Redux makes him tolerably irritating. Redux's posts are usually researched, informative, and pertinent to the issue. Merc responds with an irrelevant insult or a popcorn smiley. I am mystified as to how this false equivalency arose.
here's a theory....
the merc has an irritating rating of 135, but that is mitigated by his willingness to be a real person who we can get to know.....for a -50 irritating effect, netting him a rating of 85 irritating points.
redux has an irritating rating of 85.
equivalent.
jinx posits that redux has a irritating rating of 65, but a 20 point volume bonus, giving him an overall rating of 85.
I concede the point
Maybe I'll start a thread talking about the people I'd like not to see here again, just to see who agrees with me.
I'm not backing anyone up here, but responding to the thread itself.
We all know the mods will do what they think best in the end and frankly, I think they're doing the right thing now.
People are supposed to have a right to express their point of view, which is apparently why so many of you enjoy coming here. If you don't like the thread, don't look at it. If you want to discuss the issue without input from those you dislike, use the ignore feature. That's what it's there for.
Not a typo. If the forum were full of Merc's cut-and-pastes from right-wing blogs and contentless snipes, and nobody called him on it, I would find that intolerably irritating. Redux makes him tolerably irritating. Redux's posts are usually researched, informative, and pertinent to the issue. Merc responds with an irrelevant insult or a popcorn smiley. I am mystified as to how this false equivalency arose.
This.
I don't really understand how Redux is drawing so much flak here. Annoying at times? yes. But by no means the main offender. Not even slightly.
This.
I don't really understand how Redux is drawing so much flak here. Annoying at times? yes. But by no means the main offender. Not even slightly.
Agree.
But then I also concede LJ & Jinx's point that The Merc is a real person here, who participates in the whole board. Even TW (not mentioned here but can be insufferable occasionally) cracks fierce jokes, and UG has a great line in recipes and archaic knowledge.
I'd like to see more of Redux, not less. Then perhaps we might lose some of the vitriol, on both sides.
Perhaps I feel this way because Redux is on my side of the political spectrum. I hope not, because one of the reasons I love this place is reading intelligent and well sourced opinions from the opposite side. I'm sure other people out there feel that too. And that is something I'd hate to be mod-ed away.
That's a great turn of phrase. I think you should copyright it. :)
Thanks. I wish I could put a little copyright sign in my usertitle. :)
I rhink she means like a special purpose....
HA! And this lamp, I need this lamp.
Thanks. I wish I could put a little copyright sign in my usertitle. :)
Here you go. Copy and paste it. ©
here's a theory....
the merc has an irritating rating of 135, but that is mitigated by his willingness to be a real person who we can get to know....
But you're complaining about their behavior in the politics forum, where Redux is orders of magnitude better than Merc.
jinx posits that redux has a irritating rating of 65, but a 20 point volume bonus, giving him an overall rating of 85.
I concede the point
Redux's volume is almost uniformly responses to other posts. Why doesn't Merc get a +20?
I think it's fairly obvious that TheMercenary is generally trolling in the politics forum, and more explicitly trolling Redux. I don't think that the usual prescription of ignoring trolls until they go away would work, because, as you say, Merc participates in other forums, and isn't likely to be ignored there.
If anyone else wanted to engage TheMercenary in the politics forum (and I did), he would be just as trollish to them. If anyone else engaged Redux, they would get a well researched and thoughtful response. I don't see how a response to monster's questionnaire affects that.
I think it's fairly obvious that TheMercenary is generally trolling in the politics forum, and more explicitly trolling Redux. I don't think that the usual prescription of ignoring trolls until they go away would work, because, as you say, Merc participates in other forums, and isn't likely to be ignored there.
If anyone else wanted to engage TheMercenary in the politics forum (and I did), he would be just as trollish to them. If anyone else engaged Redux, they would get a well researched and thoughtful response. I don't see how a response to monster's questionnaire affects that.
Totally agree. I like Merc, I get along just fine with him, but not if we discuss politics. As soon as it is even vageuly related to politics he turns into a total troll. I pretty much never see redux start this shit. I see him respond an awful lot. Maybe sometimes he could refrain from responding. But it still seems grotesquely unfair to target him because he can't refrain from fighting back, instead of the person who keeps provoking him.
[eta] not everyone wants to share their personal life. Some people just want to come and discuss stuff. Clearly the main focus of Redux's interests lies in political discussion. It is really not his fault that the only area he wants to be in is home to the resident troll.
I agree with HM and Dana. :twocents:
[eta] and I agree with Dana's eta. :)
Why doesn't Merc get a +20?
I think it's fairly obvious that TheMercenary is generally trolling in the politics forum
I agree.
My opinion is based on volume. While redux and Cman seem to sit here all day long bickering, a week or more goes by between Mercs trolling.
More specifically, every current even topic turns into a redux/Cman argument, then a few days later Merc comes along and bumps every thread they've been fighting in with a popcorn smilie or a stupid remark about democrats - highlighting (annoyingly) all the threads they've already fucked up.
to remove a cancer, one must divide.
One must
excise. Cancer itself is rampant cellular division and unorganized growth.
Redux and Bruce don't always agree, but they seem to do just fine when talking about the things they don't agree upon. *shrugs*
[LIST]
[*]Current Politics thread: "I am right, you are wrong. Moreover, you are a bad person for being wrong." Repeat.
[*] Desired Politics thread: "Hey, what does everyone think of this development?" "Well, from my POV, it looks like this. How about you?"
[/LIST]
Please stop trying to
convince the other guy. You'll never win, and the rest of us will be collateral damage. You're not sticking up for your mom's honor, ffs. You're not a
bad person for letting someone else believe something that you think is incorrect.
This is you, now:
Can you see how ridiculous it is?If you ever see me engaged in that kind of internet argument, it is because there is something bothering me in my real life that I don't want to think about. I can't speak for everybody but I think this is more like a distraction/addiction than an actual desire to do any type of communication.
The following is my own opinion and does not represent an official position or opinion of the management, unless UT says so:
Okay. I've read through this, and I see calls for the Moderators to do something we are not here to do ... censor content.
The Cellar is what it is ... a community. Communities have their ups and downs, arguments, making-ups, conservatives, liberals, swingers, people being supportive, divisive, rarely just plain not caring, why would we show up here otherwise.
The administrator and moderators are not here to be the graphite to your uranium. There is a reason "insufferably annoying" is not further defined.
Go back about your business of posting. Nothing to see here, move along.
Amen. That right there is why we are The Cellar.
The following is my own opinion and does not represent an official position or opinion of the management, unless UT says so:
Okay. I've read through this, and I see calls for the Moderators to do something we are not here to do ... censor content.
The Cellar is what it is ... a community. Communities have their ups and downs, arguments, making-ups, conservatives, liberals, swingers, people being supportive, divisive, rarely just plain not caring, why would we show up here otherwise.
The administrator and moderators are not here to be the graphite to your uranium. There is a reason "insufferably annoying" is not further defined.
Go back about your business of posting. Nothing to see here, move along.
I strongly disagree. I think there IS something to see here. Several people have expressed their displeasure with a disruptive presence within the community, and ignoring the problem will only drive away the valued participants and leave those of you who chose not to fight in the company of the few problem posters.
You are right in that it is not a moderator's role to weed out the unpopular amongst us. However, it is the Admin's role to foster an environment that is conducive to maximum participation by all members. Or at least, should be in my opinion. When a few are persistently and apparently willfully ruining that environment, and are unwilling or unable to stop it.....they need to be stopped. Again, IMO.
If, after all of this, Ute decides that inaction is the best course, then so be it. And you'll have more of the same. Won't that be lovely.
I still think the conversation was worth having though. If nothing else I suspect it's drawn some people's attention to what they're doing in here :P
Yeah, I think just the talking about it helps.
If, after all of this, Ute decides that inaction is the best course, then so be it.
Well you offered two courses of action, one impossible, one banning. I'm still trying to figure out which is the better option.
Ban lumberjim and the whole "problem" just goes away!
I would consider TheMercenary to be intolerably irritating if there were nobody responding to his crap.
Totally agree.
Agree. Perhaps I feel this way because Redux is on my side of the political spectrum.
HM - I seriously doubt that you would feel the same if you agreed with his viewpoint.
SG - Hmm, perhaps. I think you may have nailed it.
I took myself out of the equation by putting them on ignore, but I will throw in my 2 cents here...
It seems to me, that over the past year+ any mention of anything negative about the current admin or their "team" gets hammered by the same clique. If there is anything other than praise for their "team" and what they do, then they get shitty.
The pigpile on themerc has been going on for a long time though and I find it very tiring. Redux has his ardent supporters. He comes in right after his posts with the same old tired policy line that one can get anywhere. They the others follow with the snide carping and adolescent worthlessness.
Merc, conversely has... well himself.
More specifically, every current event topic turns into a redux/Cman argument.
Many times I post something I found "interesting" or that I want to share with the cellar. I used to look for your (plural) opinions and viewpoints on that. Lately, all my posting in CE or Politics has been followed with a virtually immediate reply by him where he consistently states his party line or talking points. I can get that on the WH website, huffpo, msnbc... take your pick. My initial post was more often than not, already in response in response to that which was in the news - the party line. No need for him to regurgitate the same thing. The spiral continues. Dissension will not be allowed. You will be talked over. Irritating? Yup. Condescending attitude? yes. His opinion? Those who disagree are less intelligent and or lesser people W/E. I'm sorry, I'm getting off track.
I am not defending my actions. I am guilty of being an ass. Right now, I don't care anymore - I'm disgusted, both with myself and in general. I've been rereading a lot of what I have posted and I'm embarrassed. It is so contrary to the person I am IRL. I've even been discussing this with several current and past dwellars over the last few months. I've censored myself the best I can by putting them all on ignore.
For which I was again ridiculed.
here. I also offered an option
here. Aside from lookout, I was ignored.
I'm really not sure bans or infractions are the way to go tbh. Because two people can do exactly the same thing and that lead to entirely different responses. One may end up getting an infraction and then the other should also get an infraction but maybe doesn't really deserve it.
How do you actually measure what it is that is wrong here? Is it a personal attack? Well, if we can't all tell each other to fuck off, then really it takes something away from us as a group I feel. Is it a style of argument? Well, again, some people use a style and I find it abrasive and unpleasant, whilst others can say exactly the same thing and somehow it doesn't have the same sting.
I don't think my reading of the situation has anything to do with sharing Redux's political views at all. I just think it is unfair to single him out. I also don;t think it's fair to single Classic out. I don't think he does anything particularly wrong. If you actually look at any one of these discussions it is really very difficult to say who is in th wrong ( in terms of style not substance). But I find Merc's particular manner of arguing in political matters very annoying and offputting. There are others (I am not going to start naming names, lets not add to this any further ;p) who have the opposite political views to Merc that I find equally annoying and frustrating.
Ban lumberjim and the whole "problem" just goes away!
ban your face!
Here's a quater, call-------
ban your face!
ban your ƒuckin cock you fat sh!t for brains
ban your face!
ban your ƒuckin cock you fat sh!t for brains
If lumberjim and Flint get each other banned, that'll leave jinx and Pooka for me. Eureka! I've hit the MILF mother lode.
I demand that you ban this motherƒucker!!!1
If lumberjim and Flint get each other banned, that'll leave jinx and Pooka for me. Eureka! I've hit the MILF mother lode.
That brings to mind grim images of breastmilk shooting out of control for some reason...
Classic - I only put that option in there in the interest of total honesty.
My liking for Dwellars is not based on political ideals - Dana and I share an ideology (to an extent) but most people here are to the right of me and I adore them.
I will admit Merc's opinions have ticked me off in the past. Purely his opinions. But I've had much more of a problem with his responses. Until yes, I started to avoid any thread with that kind of conflict in it in case I was drawn to make sniping remarks myself.
I think the Cellar would be damaged far more by censorship than it is by petty arguments. If we are a community, really a community, we should be able to bring pressure to bear without resorting to strong-arm moderation. Isn't that what people say the Muslim community should be doing? (Okay, horrible comparison :)) I value free speech. And that's your (plural) fault. Let's work this out ourselves.
HM - I seriously doubt that you would feel the same if you agreed with his viewpoint.
I wouldn't feel
identical. Being irritated that a troll agrees with me is different from a troll I disagree with. Maybe worse.
you should have posted :
:corn:
I would like to say that many of the people discussed here have been especially kind and/or helpful to me, personally. Mostly because I deliberately do not engage their rant button.
But I really don't know how to manage the political discussions without making everybody crazy. IMO, it's the nature of the beast, which is why I don't usually participate either here or in real life.
Based on my experience in other fora, I probably view moderators differently so I'll quite suggesting that.
Good
Fucking
God.
Wait what? G0d was in pr0n?
I would like to say that many of the people discussed here have been especially kind and/or helpful to me, personally. Mostly because I deliberately do not engage their rant button.
But I really don't know how to manage the political discussions without making everybody crazy. IMO, it's the nature of the beast, which is why I don't usually participate either here or in real life.
Based on my experience in other fora, I probably view moderators differently so I'll quite suggesting that.
I like your discussions. You have good questions and ideas. When it gets heated you withdraw. I can respect your reasons for doing so.
it's not a popular stance here, but maybe we could use a bit more of it in the political discussion threads.
Most of the time, you're not going to change the other people's viewpoints anyway, so--state your viewpoint, discuss it, but don't keep beating at it and inflating the passions of the participants past the point of reason.
I am not defending my actions. I am guilty of being an ass. Right now, I don't care anymore - I'm disgusted, both with myself and in general. I've been rereading a lot of what I have posted and I'm embarrassed. It is so contrary to the person I am IRL. I've even been discussing this with several current and past dwellars over the last few months. I've censored myself the best I can by putting them all on ignore.
I'd like to know if Merc and Redux have any of this same feeling. Do either of you feel at all culpable, or embarrassed that there is this type of backlash attributed to your behavior? Will you make any attempt to modify your posting habits?
Or is this seen as unfair persecution and infringement upon your rights to freedom of speech?
Hmmmm.... I will have to think about that for a bit.
I'd like to know if Merc and Redux have any of this same feeling. Do either of you feel at all culpable, or embarrassed that there is this type of backlash attributed to your behavior? Will you make any attempt to modify your posting habits?
Or is this seen as unfair persecution and infringement upon your rights to freedom of speech?
Culpable...sure. I said as much repeatedly. Embarrassed? Only to the extent that I should have let go of some discussions sooner rather than later and I will keep that in mind....and one set of comments went too far and, as I said, was inappropriate. With regard to most of my posts, not particularly embarrassed at all.
I agree with what both Dana and Jinx posted recently. It was helpful to hear what most had to say and I take it seriously. On the other hand, I got a good laugh out of a few of the others.
Or is this seen as unfair persecution and infringement upon your rights to freedom of speech?
Yes and no.
The angst and double standard is disturbing by those of specific political leanings is quite disturbing, as a measure of setting the benchmark for normalcy and acceptable posting. On one hand if you agree with a liberal point of view I am the enemy, if you have any view contrary, I am the enemy. That is quite disturbing.
Let me mull it over.
In the end, as it seems the overwhelming feeling is that I am "troll", not just a person with contraray opinions, who is not willing to buy into the party propaganda, is also quite disturbing.
Well part of it is your style, which is dismissive without any further real dialogue. I was disappointed when you did not accept a moderated discussion.
Well part of it is your style, which is dismissive without any further real dialogue. I was disappointed when you did not accept a moderated discussion.
I fully understand your point but I just couldn't see the value in having a discussion with a person that I disagree with on so many levels. I believe Redux is a plant whose only purpose is to disrupt and put out the Demoncratic point of view. Very little will be and has been gleemed from any exchange of views other than White House talking points and propaganda. If you look at the websites that support the Dems nearly everthing he says is right out of a playbook.... so what is the point?
I do not expect to change his mind and he should not expect to change mine. He is a tool of the Demoncrats, put here to expouse the propaganda of the Demoncrats. I hate all of them. Republickins and Demoncrats alike, it just so happens the Dems are in charge and have been for the last 4 years, so they get the blame and responsibility for all our ills. Tough shit, sucks to be in charge....
I fully accept my responsibility but please note:
!. I contribute to the whole site.
2. I confine my issues to the current events and politics website and I have been rightly called out for transgressions which poured over to other threads, and I immediately stopped the discussion, which includes chat.
3. I have confined my angst to one other poster whom I believe is a political hack.
so even here, in this thread, you can't help it. you need to sit a few plays out and reflect, bub.
For the record, I am not a plant or "put" here by anyone...nor do I have any affiliation with the Obama administration, the DNC or the Democratic party, other than being a registered Democrat.
UT...I would be happy to have a moderated discussion on posting styles if you think that would be helpful.
Merc, your advantage in political threads is that you're more of a real person in non-political threads. You're a real person, compared to Redux, because none of us get a sense of who he is in real life.
assuming he is a he, and not a she
I will fully accept a temp ban until after the Nov elections if Redux is also banned for the same period of time.
It is June 19th. If you all want to be rid of me, make it equal. And ban us both until Jan 1. 2011
Merc, your advantage in political threads is that you're more of a real person in non-political threads. You're a real person, compared to Redux, because none of us get a sense of who he is in real life.
UT....I dont feel it is necessary to share my personal life, nor should it be, in order to contribute to discussions...If I do want to share, it will most likely be in a PM....but its your house.
I'll be happy share a bit about my professional life if that would be helpful. :)
I support this ban if we still get to kick Shawnee's butt when she pops her head into any of the political threads. ;)
UT....I dont feel it is necessary to share my personal life, nor should it be, in order to contribute to discussions...If I do want to share, it will most likely be in a PM....but its your house.
I'll be happy share a bit about my professional life if that would be helpful. :)
I, for one, refuse to place
any merit on your professional experience BECAUSE you are so adamant about remaining anon. you can't have your cake and eat it too.
I will fully accept a temp ban until after the Nov elections if Redux is also banned for the same period of time.
It is June 19th. If you all want to be rid of me, make it equal. And ban us both until Jan 1. 2011
This made me think. I started this thread as a way of resolving a conflict.
So, what do I want the outcome to be? specifically, and generally.
Generally first:
1. I want the cellar to have a politics forum that facilitates the rational and respectful discussion of 'How humans control the powers that control them'
2. I want a Current Events forum that allows us all to 'Help understand the world by talking about things happening in it'
3. I want to be proud of my friends.
and then, Specifically:
1. I don't want to ban anyone....not even temporarily. I think that the ban hammer is a failure of the community to enfold and encourage the acceptance of all of our unique and individual brothers and sisters to this family.
2. I want TheMercenary, Redux, Classic, Spex, UG, Radar, UT, Shawnee, jinx, griff, Pie, and all y'all sisterfuckers to be more careful to respect each other's political beliefs. Treat it like a religion if it helps you to keep it in context. If you think about it, politics and religion are quite similar. As religions fall away, and Gods lose their power, they are incrementally replaced by political parties, and idealogies. So show the same respect you would if you were discussing religion with a Jew, or a Christian, or a Muslim, Hindu, Budhist, etc.
3. (someone take it from here....I've got to get to bed....
I participate on another board (that one with the horrifying avatar and signature problem) that has two politics forae. One regular one, and one where people don't have to pretend to be civil in their discussions. You have to request an admin to invite you to the gloves-off politics forum.
I participate on another board (that one with the horrifying avatar and signature problem) that has two politics forae. One regular one, and one where people don't have to pretend to be civil in their discussions. You have to request an admin to invite you to the gloves-off politics forum.
The converse of your example was suggested before in the "
Let's Get Rid of the Politics Forum" thread.. There were no takers among either the general membership or the administration. That's why we're back here with this issue now; unless, the issue was never about effective communication in the first place and was actually about control by some people over behaviors by others [in the name of the general welfare]. [COLOR="White"]"Patriotism, the last refuge of a scoundrel."[/COLOR]
If someone's going to create a separate gloves off forum here, why limit it to politics? If it's worth while doing, it's worth while doing well and you've been given an option that would make it so.
I suggest we now let this issue lie for a while. Let's see if having aired the problem and discussed it as a group, the main protagonists change their behaviour.
That's what we did last time: it lasted less than four months. History has already repeated itself with your approach. Lead, follow; or, get out of the way. :eyebrow:
Granted, I do have to sometimes wade through a lot of crap (or carp) to get to any real information on some threads. That is, however, a consequence of this being a BBS. If I want true who/what/where journalism, I'll go to a news site.
Sometimes reading/listening to how people tell a story is almost as important as the story itself. And sometimes I am surprised by a position held by some of the people mentioned here or by their animosity towards an opposing opinion.
If someone wants to be the next Glenn Beck or Rachel Maddow and have a rant, that's their choice. I can apply my filter and skim or ignore without any electronic aids. I do sometimes wish we had a temporary ignore filter on threads so that I could exclude people just during a single view. Still, if I have to chose freedom over aggravation, freedom will always win.
I fully understand your point but I just couldn't see the value in having a discussion with a person that I disagree with on so many levels.
Right here is you missing the whole point of the Cellar.
For the record, I am not a plant or "put" here by anyone...nor do I have any affiliation with the Obama administration, the DNC or the Democratic party, other than being a registered Democrat.
Unfortunately, your style makes that conclusion almost as logical as it is paranoid. You do stick to the talking points which is why the lefties stick with you. Because we don't know you, those of us on the center/right just assume you're recycling the info from the administration emails rather than digesting information and drawing your own conclusions.
To me personally, the complete loss of the politics forum has been a bummer. I need to read real peoples reactions to events to sort out where we're headed. Right now we're getting a sliver of the story from two highly partisan folks who give no indication that they care about this community or the people in it. I have not helped the situation by popping off on each of you when my annoyance over the nonsense gets too intense. I consider Shawnee and Classic to be casualties of this war. They each want to come in on the "right" side but because it isn't actually a discussion nuance is despised.
I'd like to see a separate Politics for Asshats forum that everyone can post in and our two offenders are limited to.
2. I want TheMercenary, Redux, Classic, Spex, UG, Radar, UT, Shawnee, jinx, griff, Pie, and all y'all sisterfuckers to be more careful to respect each other's political beliefs.
Interesting. I didn't realize I was part of the problem. I will try to keep that in mind.
The converse of your example was suggested before in the "Let's Get Rid of the Politics Forum" thread.. There were no takers among either the general membership or the administration. That's why we're back here with this issue now; unless, the issue was never about effective communication in the first place and was actually about control by some people over behaviors by others [in the name of the general welfare]. [COLOR=White]"Patriotism, the last refuge of a scoundrel."[/COLOR]
If someone's going to create a separate gloves off forum here, why limit it to politics? If it's worth while doing, it's worth while doing well and you've been given an option that would make it so.
i knew very well that the politics forum would not be removed, sexo. That thread was a dramady.
Interesting. I didn't realize I was part of the problem. I will try to keep that in mind.
that is a list of people that are oft involved in the politics forum. I didn't want to keep harping on the same 3 or 4 people.
Why am I not in that list? Why am I always left out *cries* I wanna be a problem too *sulks*
I think LJ invoked the key word: [COLOR="Blue"]RESPECT. [/COLOR]
Why am I not in that list? Why am I always left out *cries* I wanna be a problem too *sulks*
LJ is ascared of you. ;)
I support this ban if we still get to kick Shawnee's butt when she pops her head into any of the political threads. ;)
OK fine...but can I pick "spanking" instead? :p:
I withdraw my suggestion that name-calling type posts be reported to, and deleted by mods.
There seems to be a consensus that name calling is childish. Can you all bear this in mind, and
a) refrain from doing it, and/or
b) refrain from reacting if someone does it to you?
:D
Sure, bitch.
I'm kidding! I kid! Someone was going to do it!
:)
For the record, I am not a plant or "put" here by anyone...nor do I have any affiliation with the Obama administration, the DNC or the Democratic party, other than being a registered Democrat.
Oh get the ƒuck over yourself...are you ƒucking kidding me??? This is truly one of the biggest "WTF" posts I have ever read anywhere on the internet. This person has clearly lost all sense of context. Redux: NOBODY cares about your pointless scribblings on some backwater message board in the outer spiral arm of the vast interwebz. Everything posted on this board is DUST IN THE WIND. We, and I speak for all of us (correct me if I am wrong), enjoy posting here as a way of interacting with other human beings.
Oh get the ƒuck over yourself...are you ƒucking kidding me???
Hey fuckface, if you want to type the word fuck then type the word fuck. Quit dancing all around the word. Do you think you're special because your little f is a little different than everyone else's little f? Fucking elitist.
And Jebus GAWD I hope you're kidding too.
:D
enjoy posting here as a way of interacting with other human beings
Tagline.
But one more thing, now that this rather therapeutic thread has had us talk some of the stuff out: I know Redux a little. I have heard that if I knew merc better I would see that side of him I've heard about. If you knew Redux better you might be more receptive to his posts, sure.
But that's up to him. I'm an open book, you all know that, but still there have been situations where someone is tugging a little too hard. I shut right down on that stuff.
Can it be that some people take longer to "get to know" people in a personal way? This is a poster's interests, surely we don't think we should dictate what that person is and is not willing to give...and when?
We should be able to accept this poster as this poster is...or talk to other posters with whom we share the things we like to share.
...enjoy posting here as a way of interacting with other human beings.
Tagline.
Hey, cuntƒuck--don't attribute that quote to me. That would ruin my image.
Hey fuckface, if you want to type the word fuck then type the word fuck.
I always assume that some people my have profanity filtering on their internet connection at work. I don't want to be the one who gets Cellar content blocked. So when I type ƒuck I do the "F" as Alt+0131 (hold down the Alt key and type 0131 on the numeric keypad).
That's fine Shaw, but like Jim said, "you can't have it both ways". Ie. you can't be an annon political commentator and expect to have the same interactions with the people here as the people here. There's no human aspect to fall back on.
That's fair, and probably Ok with 'dux, though I certainly can't speak for him. :)
I think this thread has been good for most of us. Thanks jim.
I participate on another board (that one with the horrifying avatar and signature problem) that has two politics forae. One regular one, and one where people don't have to pretend to be civil in their discussions. You have to request an admin to invite you to the gloves-off politics forum.
Excellent suggestion!! > probably because I wanted to post this idea too. :) I don't think it has to be invitation only though, I think people should understand if they go there the gloves are definitely off!
Since I've been gone for a while, I just assumed that Redux was a redo of Radar.
That's fine Shaw, but like Jim said, "you can't have it both ways". Ie. you can't be an annon political commentator and expect to have the same interactions with the people here as the people here. There's no human aspect to fall back on.
I would respectfully suggest that you and Jim and others cant have it both ways either.
There is no one right way to participate in a discussion. If my posts are respectful, and I have said they will be, that should be enough.
Since I've been gone for a while, I just assumed that Redux was a redo of Radar.
OUCH! Redux is a registered Democrat.
Radar is a "constitutional scholar" and hardline Libertarian.
Redux if and when all your posts are respectful then of course you are right - no-one expects you to post anywhere you are not comfortable.
It just means that if and when your posts are disrespectful, no-one has anything else to judge you on.
Somebody said something like "I want to hate Griff for his politics, but he built his own house, and that is cool." Bout 8 years ago I think it was said. That's what it's all about.
~
So Dux (I will talk about you here in the third person) posting just to have a lefty voice responding, or whatever, gives his posts an eerie motivation, and grants him all the "Cellar relevancy" as the next Indonesian link spammer. He should no longer wonder why people carp at him. That is why.
In the tavern analogy, he sits and waits for the other tables to have a conversation that he can respond to, and once he hears a keyword, he jumps in, sits at that table, puts in his two cents, and then quietly leaves when the topic changes.
Indeed, if you do an advanced search for threads started by him, you will find only two of them - in about four years of participating.
He has chosen a popular tavern, but basically chosen it because it's the one closest to his house. If the tavern burns down he will have no concern and just move on to the next one down the road. Who is at the tavern, what's on the menu, what's on the jukebox, all sort of irrelevant.
(But if you ask why he is a Democrat, he may answer, compassion for others.)
(I was friends with a self-described Socialist, once, who pretty much hated 98% of people. I still don't quite understand it.)
Ut...I get what you're saying but I just dont agree.
I dont want to come as self-promoting, but I think I contribute to discussions...and in a way that is not purely partisan
Take the recent discussion with Bruce on the Voting Rights Act...it is not a D v R issue...it is offering my understanding the law.
OUCH! Redux is a registered Democrat.
Radar is a "constitutional scholar" and hardline Libertarian.
Redux if and when all your posts are respectful then of course you are right - no-one expects you to post anywhere you are not comfortable.
It just means that if and when your posts are disrespectful, no-one has anything else to judge you on.
Thanks, Sundae.
But others are suggesting that it goes beyond being respectful in my posts. I have to be more of a "community member" in ways they define....and I will consider it.
It's not like we're desperate to know about your personal life, redux. We're just trying to help you understand why you get no allowance for being human like others do.
have it any way you want it, just don't be bitter when we show you no consideration or compassion in matters like this. I don't care about you at all, for example. I actually care more about spexxvet, and I can't STAND that sonofabitch.
It's not like we're desperate to know about your personal life, redux. We're just trying to help you understand why you get no allowance for being human like others do.
have it any way you want it, just don't be bitter when we show you no consideration or compassion in matters like this. I don't care about you at all, for example. I actually care more about spexxvet, and I can't STAND that sonofabitch.
Jim....I'm not bitter.
Quite the contrary, I took the need to be respectful very seriously....but the other rules of engagement make me chuckle.
Now I am off to lunch with friends at a new restaurant. I probably wont report back with a critique of the menu.
Jim....I'm not bitter.
Quite the contrary, I took the need to be respectful very seriously....but the other rules of engagement make me chuckle.
Now I am off to lunch with friends at a new restaurant. I probably wont report back with a critique of the menu.
Oh please! :sniff: We want to know all about it! I do anyway.
I always assume that some people my have profanity filtering on their internet connection at work. I don't want to be the one who gets Cellar content blocked. So when I type ƒuck I do the "F" as Alt+0131 (hold down the Alt key and type 0131 on the numeric keypad).
How's about just not using that word? Or some of the other ones? What is really being added by using profanity? If your argument is a load of crap, it's a load of crap. Cursing someone out isn't going to make it better.
that's just his own particular ƒucking idiom.
For the record, I am not a plant or "put" here by anyone...nor do I have any affiliation with the Obama administration, the DNC or the Democratic party, other than being a registered Democrat.
Oh get the ƒuck over yourself...are you ƒucking kidding me??? This is truly one of the biggest "WTF" posts I have ever read anywhere on the internet. This person has clearly lost all sense of context. Redux: NOBODY cares about your pointless scribblings on some backwater message board in the outer spiral arm of the vast interwebz. Everything posted on this board is DUST IN THE WIND. We, and I speak for all of us (correct me if I am wrong), enjoy posting here as a way of interacting with other human beings.
Huh? Redux was responding to a direct accusation from TheMercenary. He didn't say that out of the blue.
thinkin out loud here....
A little bird told me I should read this thread; I have though it took me two days and my lips are really tired now. I didn't bother with it for at first because I just don't care what lumberjim says anymore. And that still applies. He has his standards, and mostly I don't think much of them. In this case, however, I share his and others' sadness that the quality of the dialog in the politics discussions, and many other places here has declined, due mostly to the way many posts are put into the conversation.
To me, the name calling, the profanity, is nothing at all like a conversation. It is a shouting match. With bullhorns. To extend the popular and useful tavern analogy, when this happens it is like a loud disturbing ruckus. The analogy breaks down here for a good reason. In the tavern, there'd be a fight and some resolution at least to the point where the volume dropped again. But that doesn't happen here, because they can't "settle this like men, once and for all". They're stuck, using the only violence delivery method they have, more fucking shouting. It never gets solved. Mostly because in a shouting match, you're just trying to intimidate your opponent into backing down or running away. That never works here, because it just isn't that scary--oooo he's shouting at me--we're a bunch of internet hardcases, unintimidateable. It makes regular conversations for others nearby difficult or impossible.
But, the very thing that makes it last (on and on) here is the same thing that makes it ignorable. Just read around them.
It is not a conversation. It is not an attempt at an exchange of ideas. It is just noise. Content free noise. And it should be treated accordingly. I mute it or move away from it. If we were in the tavern, telling the shouters to shut up would be unlikely to work. I think it is just as unlikely to work here. Let them rave. I say this because I don't want *my* speech to be judged and censored. I don't think the rule "don't be intolerably irritating" has been violated. I think making more rules is not necessary. I don't think putting the onus on the moderators to protect me from this noise is appropriate (nor would it be successful in the long term).
The Golden Rule works here. Some want to shout at each other, presumably wanting or expecting me to shout back. I decline. I want silence from them, so I show them silence. I want dialog. I want conversation, to exchange ideas. This is the main way I learn.
Huh? Redux was responding to a direct accusation from TheMercenary. He didn't say that out of the blue.
Oops. I don't necessarily always "read" the threads.
Hasn't this been resolved yet?
thinkin out loud here....
A little bird told me I should read this thread; I have though it took me two days and my lips are really tired now. I didn't bother with it for at first because I just don't care what lumberjim says anymore. And that still applies. He has his standards, and mostly I don't think much of them.
This may be the most polite ad hominem insult I've received. But you realize that you've admitted that at one time you DID care what I said. Does this mean you're breaking up with me?
Regardless of the outcome, thanks for the thread Jim. It has led me to look at my own relationship with the cellar and that is a good thing, I think.
It seems the Classic side of this equation has been settled while the Redux/Merc angle is still playing out. Some have said that Merc is a troll and to a degree I agree. In the politics forums he does troll for reactions with his "demoncrat" this and "republickan" that (or whatever his current names are) persistently. I find it unfortunate as I think he has some views which would be quite useful if they were presented in a more professional manner. If this thread causes him to stop and rethink his presentation then great, but I don't really think it will. I may be way off base but I picture Merc sitting at home chuckling to himself as he pushes the popcorn smilie button. It amuses him to stir the shit, which is definitely an attribute of a troll. (which can be fun if not overused) He offsets some of that by actually being a real person in the other threads though, so for me that is a positive.
It seems like the consensus is that Redux is not a troll because he posts grammatically correct spellchecked posts with citations. Fair enough, but imo Redux is every bit as much of a troll as Merc. The only real difference is Redux is better/more subtle at it. His posts drip with condescension for anyone who holds an opposite view. He rarely offers any insight as to why he believes something or what makes him tick. A thread is started and after a couple of people have posted their thoughts (usually without citations) he drops in some citations that would support an opposing view but gives no glimpse as to why his view of the world brings him to hold some things as good and some things as bad. He's like the cellar's resident research assistant, so long as you only want the left leaning research. Without any original thoughts his posts offer nothing of value, imo.
For me, the cellar is about people. 6 years ago I'd try to explain a story or interaction from the cellar to Mrs L and she thought I was an idiot for telling stories about the internet, but after all this time (with only intermittent first hand visits) she gets the cellar. While she doesn't visit often she asks about some of the events described, issues with kids, or someone's view on a particular issue. She understands the cellar is about the people and their personalities, not just a bunch of regurgitated facts. We have political aggregators for each partyline if that's all you're looking for. I don't really value posters, but I do appreciate dwellars.
That being said, this is a self policing community and as such will police itself. If the drama continues more dwellars will drift away which will be a shame, but the cellar will carry on as new people will come in and pick up where they left off. It is up to the individual dwellar to decide if the cellar (or any community) is a net positive or negative in their life and then decide to do something (or not) about it.
Hasn't this been resolved yet?
Some cherry picking trying to confine my observations to Redux and some quotes about and to him.
Redux for the Ban.
I disagree.
it's the only way in your case. We're all sick of you bringing shit from one forum and wiping it all over the board. Even here You are a professional dingleberry. You certainly need to use that as a use title if you don't get banned,
More of the exact behavior described as the problem, what hypocrisy. His "shit" isn't all over the board. Your complaint is that he's so monomaniacal about politics--it just doesn't go all over. You're wrong on the facts. "Professional dingleberry"? Real mature. Way to set an example. Way to be the change you want to see.
DON'T RESPOND! Duh! Yes it does address the problem. no response = no counter-response. Probelm Solved. Only a Dingleberry wouldn't see that.
more shouting... *yawn*
hooyah. ban. Your opinion of yourself is way too high. And your maturity level way too low. unless you are actually 12.
now self esteem is bannable? etc, etc.
No we aren't.
I, too, am not one of the all you proclaim are tired of his shit. You don't speak for me.
ARe you diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome? Or anything on that spectrum?
You're seriously misreading his posts. Completely so.
I don't see that. It was pertinent to the discussion and civilly phrased. How was that cause for banning?
I agree. It's not.
*point 1*Except for that one time you were given suggestions, oh, and the other time, and the one after that, too. Your posts would improve on their own if you actually chose to be a member of the community, because you would actually know the people you were talking to, and that whole "the internet turns everyone into assholes" thing wouldn't be a factor anymore.
*point 2*This is a major part of your problem. Every post is full of this indignant "Tell me how" and "Give me one reason" and "Please explain to me how you" stuff. It's the way a teenager argues with an authority figure. If you have a point, make it. If you have evidence against the other person's point, show it. Anything that starts with "Please tell me how" is useless bickering.
*point 3*And this is the other major part of your problem. Again, like a teenager, you keep falling back on this "he started it" concept, that you expect us to respond "fairly" to you and your adversaries, or you're going to throw more temper tantrums. No one gives a shit. It's been explained to you repeatedly that when you "respond in kind," you make yourself the asshole, end of story.
*point 1*
Redux **is** a member of this community. He is highly unwelcome by some especially vocal members. Many are neutral, and some of us, like me, appreciate his posts for their content.
*point 2*
I hope you're kidding when you make this point. I ask all the time for help, for clarification of other people's points and ideas. It is flatly wrong to say that anything that starts with "please tell me how" is useless bickering. Your whole point here just sounds cranky, which is way out of character for you Clodfobble.
*point 3*
I agree with this point. There's a limit to the validity to "he started it" as an excuse for one's actions as an adult. That limit is greater than zero, and it can be a good starting point for an explanation as to why things started to go off the rails, but only if someone cares. Apparently you don't, so it has little value to you. Fair enough.
I strongly disagree. I think there IS something to see here. Several people have expressed their displeasure with a disruptive presence within the community, and ignoring the problem will only drive away the valued participants and leave those of you who chose not to fight in the company of the few problem posters.
You are right in that it is not a moderator's role to weed out the unpopular amongst us. However, it is the Admin's role to foster an environment that is conducive to maximum participation by all members. Or at least, should be in my opinion. When a few are persistently and apparently willfully ruining that environment, and are unwilling or unable to stop it.....they need to be stopped. Again, IMO.
If, after all of this, Ute decides that inaction is the best course, then so be it. And you'll have more of the same. Won't that be lovely.
The nothing wolf is talking about is bannable behavior. I know you don't like Redux's ideas and his posts. You've said so clearly and repeatedly. I do like Redux's ideas and posts. Even you say the role of the moderator is not to ban unpopular members and I strongly agree with that statement. Redux is unpopular with some and popular with others. Redux is **NOT** willfully ruining our environment any more than you are or I am.
Heh. Remember, you actually have the power, yourself, to "stop it". Don't listen to it.
For the record, I am not a plant or "put" here by anyone...nor do I have any affiliation with the Obama administration, the DNC or the Democratic party, other than being a registered Democrat.
UT...I would be happy to have a moderated discussion on posting styles if you think that would be helpful.
and
UT....I dont feel it is necessary to share my personal life, nor should it be, in order to contribute to discussions...If I do want to share, it will most likely be in a PM....but its your house.
I'll be happy share a bit about my professional life if that would be helpful. :)
Merc, your advantage in political threads is that you're more of a real person in non-political threads. You're a real person, compared to Redux, because none of us get a sense of who he is in real life.
and
I, for one, refuse to place any merit on your professional experience BECAUSE you are so adamant about remaining anon. you can't have your cake and eat it too.
These two pairs of posts elicit a rueful laugh from me.
OF COURSE Redux is a REAL PERSON. Are you kidding me? Redux, I caution you to dispense details of your personal life with the knowledge that they will never be private again. They will be known widely or less widely, but they'll be public forever. And even if you gave all of us here all of your details, how could we say even then that we "knew" you? monster imagined in a different thread recently how she'd characterized someone as "most likely to become a serial killer". I believe she said it in jest and in private, but when she found out later that the circumstances in this person's life were dramatically different from what she'd previously and incorrectly understood, she understood her assessment was unfair.
I doubt your situation is different. We know little about you but you're a real person to me. For those who demand more "proof" about your reality, I say keep your cake and let them keep their ignorance.
Some cherry picking trying to confine my observations to Redux and some quotes about and to him.
I disagree.
More of the exact behavior described as the problem, what hypocrisy. His "shit" isn't all over the board. Your complaint is that he's so monomaniacal about politics--it just doesn't go all over. You're wrong on the facts. "Professional dingleberry"? Real mature. Way to set an example. Way to be the change you want to see.
more shouting... *yawn*
now self esteem is bannable? etc, etc.
I, too, am not one of the all you proclaim are tired of his shit. You don't speak for me.
You're seriously misreading his posts. Completely so.
I agree. It's not.
*point 1*
Redux **is** a member of this community. He is highly unwelcome by some especially vocal members. Many are neutral, and some of us, like me, appreciate his posts for their content.
*point 2*
I hope you're kidding when you make this point. I ask all the time for help, for clarification of other people's points and ideas. It is flatly wrong to say that anything that starts with "please tell me how" is useless bickering. Your whole point here just sounds cranky, which is way out of character for you Clodfobble.
*point 3*
I agree with this point. There's a limit to the validity to "he started it" as an excuse for one's actions as an adult. That limit is greater than zero, and it can be a good starting point for an explanation as to why things started to go off the rails, but only if someone cares. Apparently you don't, so it has little value to you. Fair enough.
The nothing wolf is talking about is bannable behavior. I know you don't like Redux's ideas and his posts. You've said so clearly and repeatedly. I do like Redux's ideas and posts. Even you say the role of the moderator is not to ban unpopular members and I strongly agree with that statement. Redux is unpopular with some and popular with others. Redux is **NOT** willfully ruining our environment any more than you are or I am.
Heh. Remember, you actually have the power, yourself, to "stop it". Don't listen to it.
and
and
These two pairs of posts elicit a rueful laugh from me.
OF COURSE Redux is a REAL PERSON. Are you kidding me? Redux, I caution you to dispense details of your personal life with the knowledge that they will never be private again. They will be known widely or less widely, but they'll be public forever. And even if you gave all of us here all of your details, how could we say even then that we "knew" you? monster imagined in a different thread recently how she'd characterized someone as "most likely to become a serial killer". I believe she said it in jest and in private, but when she found out later that the circumstances in this person's life were dramatically different from what she'd previously and incorrectly understood, she understood her assessment was unfair.
I doubt your situation is different. We know little about you but you're a real person to me. For those who demand more "proof" about your reality, I say keep your cake and let them keep their ignorance.
I respect the fact you have the chutzpah to point out the obvious.
Quite a few good points.
Especially the last about sharing information. I don't usually feel especially 'more real' after sharing mine. It just means I am being trusting enough to put some of it up for scrutiny. Not everyone is going to be flying the 'they're a real person now banner' Why would red want to take that step of trust as there is so much animosity.
Red, I still want to hear about the new restaurant though. I won't scrutinize the menu too much.
This may be the most polite ad hominem insult I've received. But you realize that you've admitted that at one time you DID care what I said. Does this mean you're breaking up with me?
lumberjim, no insult was intended. In the past, when I knew less about you, I paid more attention to you. As time went on and I learned more about you, I realized that there was an increasing number of instances when I disagreed with your point of view and found the way you expressed it distasteful. Consequently, I just paid (much) less attention to what you said. This plan has worked well for me.
I get your joke. I usually get them, I usually find them unfunny. Yes, I realize and admit I once held you in higher esteem than I now do. I don't feel the need to reopen any of that shit show now. Nor do I feel the need to insult you. I think you're a smart guy, but with a mean streak. I don't like that, so I give us each the space to get along by mostly ignoring you.
Looking back, I could have made my whole post without that bit. I included it as a demonstration of my willingness to walk my talk. I hope you, and all the others here can find a way to enjoy the interactions here. This is an awesome place. I was just trying to illustrate one way I've succeeded in overcoming a difficulty *I* had that I think is similar to the point you opened the thread with.
ooh look, everyone, Tikiman is here! The caped crusader once again arrives with a flaming torch to save the day, righting all wrongs and putting everyone back in their place. Hurrah!
If the complaint is that the intensity and length of dwellar-on-dwellar strife has increased, and shows no sign of cathartically ending itself or being otherwise resolved, then what caused it? We're talking about 20 years of society changing around the Cellar, during which time the moderation philosophy hasn't significantly changed. I don't really think that anyone named in this thread is uniquely responsible, in the sense that "if only so and so were gone this problem would never again arise."
- in the Cellar's time, the internet has gone mainstream. It's becoming a larger and larger part of people's lives. Does the ever-smaller gap between "stuff on the internet" and "real life" make it easier for people to be passionate about something they read on the internet?
- in America right now we're in the middle of a bubble of pretty strong partisanship, where peoples' political views are mostly either passionate or nonexistant. Is this just how politics are now?
I dunno. But I do think that the Cellar being able to resolve this in a way that doesn't force homogeneity is important, both for the Cellar's wellbeing and as an example of what the future of communities might hold.
Some cherry picking to create drama where there is none and prove what an insane impression of the world I have.
Fixed
that
for
ya
This thread seems to be tending towards that thing it's trying to prevent.
This thread seems to be tending towards that thing it's trying to prevent.
It does rather.
I think we shuold all just go back to what we were doing (except for the obvious of course...).
I think the people who've been particularly singled out have all heard what the rest of have to say. Let's just leave it at that now eh?
I know, right?
I'm sorry. I was going to refute points in V's post, but decided to go for the easy laugh instead.
I will just say what I mean....to Mr BigV:
I know you don't like Redux's ideas and his posts. You've said so clearly and repeatedly
I never argued politics or ideas with redux. I dont read his/her posts. I dont want to know all about him/her.
that's what ive said repeatedly. clearly, you dont read enough of the cellar to know what's going on to give a qualified critique of how we're handling this conflict. So, go back to PD and take your little bird with you, okay?
How's about just not using that word? Or some of the other ones? What is really being added by using profanity?
I try to type in a natural manner of speech. If, in real life, I would say to someone "What the ƒuck are you talking about?!" then I would type that same thing to that same person, online. What is being added, not exclusively by the profanity, but by a variety of editorial decisions, is a conversational quality to the post.
If your argument is a load of crap, it's a load of crap. Cursing someone out isn't going to make it better.
Please elaborate. Do you find a specific "argument" of mine to be a "load of crap" or are you saying that it MUST be a "load of crap" BECAUSE it included profanity? Are you of the mistaken impression that I have implied somewhere the belief that the inclusion of profanity is a guarantee towards quality of content (i.e. what is "being added" mentioned above)? Where is the phantom argument that you are refuting here?
Oh, and, by use of the word "crap" is your own post, is the post itself not completely invalidated (by your own logic)?
There's a cellar cookie about this...
you need to post the recipe for that in the appropriate ƒorum
youbetcha! I can see the nuts from my front porch
...Red, I still want to hear about the new restaurant though. I won't scrutinize the menu too much.
Sky...I responded in the
appropriate forum. ;)
Nobody HAS to do anything... Nobody HAS to post info about their personal life, of course nobody HAS to take their other posts seriously if they don't. The consequences of whatever choices people make are decided democratically (we vote with our feet). This thread, and the discussion it generated, IS the "policing" of this board--it is the "airing of greivances" from Costanza's Festivus.
Speaking for myself, I am only interested in boards that are NOT MODERATED FOR CONTENT.
I myself Flint, prefer the open airing of grievances to hush-hush backbiting. For instance, if you are getting disgusted by your friend's food in their beard, you should mention it, rather than giving up your meal yourself.
I don't remember a time where redux or spexx were active that the shit wasn't consistantly flying in all directions.
Then you have a poor memory.
it's the only way in your case. We're all sick of you bringing shit from one forum and wiping it all over the board.
Posts are not made in a vacuum. If someone says, in one thread, that VA benefits should be cut, then in another thread sympathizes with Buster’s bad experience in the VA hospital, that person should be called on it. Or if someone trashes Shaw in one thread, then asks Shaw not to leave in another, that person needs to be called on it.
I chose to put the individuals on ignore several days ago. I haven't read a post nor typed a word to either of them since. I plan on continuing. If I do I request that I be banned, temporarily or permanently, mods'/UT's choice.
That good enough?
I've censored myself the best I can by putting them all on ignore.
For which I was again ridiculed. here. I also offered an option here. Aside from lookout, I was ignored.
Obviously, your link shows that you read my post. I hope you’ll do the honorable thing. I’m kidding.:blush:
Classic gets wrapped up in the name calling, as I do, and as others do. At least some of Classic posts seem to genuinely seek to initiate a discussion apparently so that he can have a better informed opinion on a subject. He adds much more substance than merc.
here's a theory....
the merc has an irritating rating of 135, but that is mitigated by his willingness to be a real person who we can get to know.....for a -50 irritating effect, netting him a rating of 85 irritating points.
redux has an irritating rating of 85.
equivalent.
Merc, your advantage in political threads is that you're more of a real person in non-political threads. You're a real person, compared to Redux, because none of us get a sense of who he is in real life.
I don’t think someone should get a pass for saying “you have a cute kitten” or “I’m really sorry about ur finger”. That doesn’t solve the problem in the politics and current events forums. If you want to solve the problem, come down equally on ALL offenders.
I don't care about you at all, for example. I actually care more about spexxvet, and I can't STAND that sonofabitch.
Aww… I feel the same way about you, my little douchebag.:comfort:
I think that the ban hammer is a failure of the community to enfold and encourage the acceptance of all of our unique and individual brothers and sisters to this family.
Even me, Jimmy?
In the tavern analogy, he sits and waits for the other tables to have a conversation that he can respond to, and once he hears a keyword, he jumps in, sits at that table, puts in his two cents, and then quietly leaves when the topic changes.
In another tavern, Merc sits at a table with his friends. He hears a keyword at a different table, and walks over to that table and tells the person speaking that he is an asshole for thinking like that, and then goes back to the table with his friends. Is that better? Maybe to his friends it is, but not to anybody else. And many times, the two tables will start yelling at each other, disrupting the whole tavern.
ooh look, everyone, Tikiman is here! The caped crusader once again arrives with a flaming torch to save the day, righting all wrongs and putting everyone back in their place. Hurrah!
Take it to the politics forum, huh? Maybe the “teams” mentioned earlier are not just political “teams”.
If we are a community, really a community, we should be able to bring pressure to bear without resorting to strong-arm moderation.
Like I suggested:
Here's an idea, Jim. You're well respected here. When someone posts a dismissive or insulting post, tell them to stop. Remember how obedient Classic was, when you told him to stop kicking the retarded kid? I'll bet Merc will listen to you, too. I don't want to sound like "they started it", but I will bet you that if you get merc and classic to stop, redux and I will have no reason to be asshats.
Jim is the perfect person to do this. He cared enough to start this thread, after all.
I myself Flint, prefer the open airing of grievances to hush-hush backbiting. ..
That's what chat is for.;)
That's what chat is for.;)
ha, ..na really?:rolleyes:
kind of both in the same..the backbiting and airing of grievances during chat sessions.
ha, ..na really?:rolleyes:
.
No. Not true.
Catharsis, such a wonderful thing.
ha, ..na really?:rolleyes:
.
yes
No. Not true.
I wouldn't expect that from you unless you had a damn good reason. I don't see you as being a snipe.
That's what chat is for.;)
funny you mention that. last night, for the first time in over a year, BigV saw fit to log into chat and act like he was a regular. wonder why he did that. I don't ever recall chatting with you, spex. I wonder how you know what is discussed there.
11:46:44 ‹jim› http/www.youtube.com/watch?v...related
21/06/2010 11:46:50 ‹jim› check that out before you go
21/06/2010 11:47:09 ‹kero› you mutherfucker
21/06/2010 11:47:13 ‹kero› gnight
21/06/2010 11:47:19 ‹jim› lol
21/06/2010 11:47:21 ‹jim› nifght
21/06/2010 11:47:24 ‹jim› thanks
21/06/2010 11:47:35 ‹jim› that pleased me
The song actually started before I realized what had happened. And every time you do it, I always think "never again!"
I think the point spexx is making is that he's a chat peeping tom. He listens/watches unseen in the hope of gleaning gossip/evidence of subplots etc. Just like V does/used to. Or maybe not even unseen, I wasn't in there last night, maybe he unclaocked...
And there are others. How sad.
Not only that but keeping a record of it? And he wonders why he's not a popular dwellar......
I bet he jerks off to zippy telling us about his latest plumbing achievements and jim bitching about just how late he's having to work.
11:46:44 ‹jim› http/www.youtube.com/watch?v...related
21/06/2010 11:46:50 ‹jim› check that out before you go
21/06/2010 11:47:09 ‹kero› you mutherfucker
21/06/2010 11:47:13 ‹kero› gnight
21/06/2010 11:47:19 ‹jim› lol
21/06/2010 11:47:21 ‹jim› nifght
21/06/2010 11:47:24 ‹jim› thanks
21/06/2010 11:47:35 ‹jim› that pleased me
yes, spex, anyone can log into chat any time and see the last 20-30 lines of chat from the previous discussion. it's kind of creepy to do if you weren't involved in the discussion, and you don't get a true sense of context for what you DO see there.
So..... what point are you trying to make exactly with all of this? Is there a chat conspiracy? Do you imagine that the regular chatters are talking about you behind your back? (regular chatters at this point is a very exclusive club) I suppose that I may have expressed some frustration or made some joke about another dweller at some point, and if you had access to ALL of the chat logs you might be able to read it..... You know what else? Me and jinx talk about you all the time too. We try to outdo each other with flowery descriptions of what a sick twisted weirdo you are.
I think the point spexx is making is that he's a chat peeping tom. He listens/watches unseen in the hope of gleaning gossip/evidence of subplots etc. Just like V does/used to. Or maybe not even unseen, I wasn't in there last night, maybe he unclaocked...
Wrong.
Not only that but keeping a record of it?
Wrong again. When I go into chat, the last 25 or so lines are still there. I don't peep, and I don't keep records.
And he wonders why he's not a popular dwellar......
Oh, I know why I'm not popular. The truth hurts, doesn't it.
I bet he jerks off to zippy telling us about his latest plumbing achievements and jim bitching about just how late he's having to work.
No, I jerk off to all the backstabbing that goes on.
Now who is getting all nasty, and it's not even the politics or current events thread. You really jump to LJ's defense quickly - does Beest know about your feelings?
yes, spex, anyone can log into chat any time and see the last 20-30 lines of chat from the previous discussion. it's kind of creepy to do if you weren't involved in the discussion, and you don't get a true sense of context for what you DO see there.
So..... what point are you trying to make exactly with all of this? Is there a chat conspiracy? Do you imagine that the regular chatters are talking about you behind your back? (regular chatters at this point is a very exclusive club) I suppose that I may have expressed some frustration or made some joke about another dweller at some point, and if you had access to ALL of the chat logs you might be able to read it..... You know what else? Me and jinx talk about you all the time too. We try to outdo each other with flowery descriptions of what a sick twisted weirdo you are.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. here you go dragging the same kind of shit that happens in the politics and current events forums out into the rest of the Cellar. What's sick, twisted, and weird is that you make me out to be the bad guy, when you did the deed. I just let everybody know. At least you lamely acknowledged what you've done.
BTW, who were the immature ones here? Who started with the insults? Who caled names?
This made me think. I started this thread as a way of resolving a conflict.
So, what do I want the outcome to be? specifically, and generally.
Generally first:
1. I want the cellar to have a politics forum that facilitates the rational and respectful discussion of 'How humans control the powers that control them'
2. I want a Current Events forum that allows us all to 'Help understand the world by talking about things happening in it'
3. I want to be proud of my friends.
and then, Specifically:
1. I don't want to ban anyone....not even temporarily. I think that the ban hammer is a failure of the community to enfold and encourage the acceptance of all of our unique and individual brothers and sisters to this family.
2. I want TheMercenary, Redux, Classic, Spex, UG, Radar, UT, Shawnee, jinx, griff, Pie, and all y'all sisterfuckers to be more careful to respect each other's political beliefs. Treat it like a religion if it helps you to keep it in context. If you think about it, politics and religion are quite similar. As religions fall away, and Gods lose their power, they are incrementally replaced by political parties, and idealogies. So show the same respect you would if you were discussing religion with a Jew, or a Christian, or a Muslim, Hindu, Budhist, etc.
3. (someone take it from here....I've got to get to bed....
Maybe you should want this for the entire Cellar. Maybe you should behave in these ways yourself.
I am still trying to figure out what is so bad about those few lines from chat. Jim rickrolled me and I called him a mutherfucker. I even spelled it wrong, so he would know I was not truly mad. Just playing along.
Spexx doesn't understand that some people find lumberjim to be funny. He believes a rickroll to be damning evidence against him, that we all would be horrified at his behavior if only we knew.
I knew I could count on you to clarify this for me, Clod. :) A rickroll from Jim is like a hug from a normal person. It's just his way.
Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
Spexx doesn't understand that some people find lumberjim to be funny. He believes a rickroll to be damning evidence against him, that we all would be horrified at his behavior if only we knew.
That's not it at all, Clod. There was an insinuation that I couldn't know what was said in chat. I posted the last few lines of chat to show that anybody can see. The content was totally immaterial.
I know, right?
I'm sorry. I was going to refute points in V's post, but decided to go for the easy laugh instead.
I wish you'd refuted points. His post seemed completely reasonable to me, and yours just called him insane. Not so much an easy laugh as a WTF.
I never argued politics or ideas with redux. I dont read his/her posts. I dont want to know all about him/her.
You don't read his posts, but you know he doesn't talk about his personal life enough, but you don't want to know anything about him. You don't like the lack of real discussion in the politics forum, but you won't argue politics or ideas with one of the frequent posters in that forum. You call BigV's worldview insane, but this seems a bit schizophrenic.
So, go back to PD and take your little bird with you, okay?
And now BigV should "go back" somewhere. Like he isn't a real Dwellar.
That's not it at all, Clod. There was an insinuation that I couldn't know what was said in chat. I posted the last few lines of chat to show that anybody can see. The content was totally immaterial.
*blinks*
In what way does you dipping into chat for a second and cutting and pasting the last few lines in anyway let you know 'what was said in chat'?
What about the five hours prior to that?
FFs.
Spexx, even I am pissed off at you now.
You can't know what goes on in chat unless you spend time there. You don't spend time there, so you don't know. All you have is a snippet. That's like saying you understand a book because you read a random paragraph from the middle.
Oh and Why has this suddenly turned into a flame fest? We were doing so well!
And what the hell was sniping about Jinx's comment? She was just disagreeing.
You all suck. Yes you heard me. Each and every one of you sucks big fat donkey dick. Bleugh.
*blinks*
In what way does you dipping into chat for a second and cutting and pasting the last few lines in anyway let you know 'what was said in chat'?
What about the five hours prior to that?
FFs.
Spexx, even I am pissed off at you now.
You can't know what goes on in chat unless you spend time there. You don't spend time there, so you don't know. All you have is a snippet. That's like saying you understand a book because you read a random paragraph from the middle.
...
You're pissed off at me because of the backstabbing in chat, which Jim admitted to. Please explain.
You're pissed off at me because of the backstabbing in chat, which Jim admitted to. Please explain.
Nope, I'm with Dani.
I like you Spex, but you've gone back to the old stand-by of claiming there is a Treehouse Club.
Your cut and paste from chat meant nothing - it baffled me.
All I understood from Jim's posts (in this thread) is that sometimes he slags and moans. You know what? If everyone I'd ever PM'd posted their PMs I'd look like a hypocrite.
Why? Because sometimes I'm mad and I slag and moan too. Not often. And it passes pretty quickly.
I was pretty rotten about LabRat once upon a time. I was very wrong - she was a lovely Dwellar and I really miss her. In my defense I never said anything positive about her on the board until I got to know her, and once I did know her I felt like a heel for my previous opinion.
Don't be a cunt Spex.
Don't take a thread trying to resolve issues and turn it into a spite-fest.
NO-ONE says you have to get on with LJ. There is more than one Dwellar that I have on mental ignore because I find them intolerable. They are not the whole Cellar. They cannot spoil my experience. I could respond snidely to everything they post but I would lose out if I did.
Back off.
I'm not part the Treehouse Club; I do not believe it exists. I'd just rather you let it go. This is only personal in that I'd rather you stuck around without imploding.
But the bottom line is if things here are that hateful and intolerable and biased, you may be better off leaving. I'll miss you, but I won't miss the vitriol - on both sides.
I'm sorry you and Dana feel that way. Not surprised, though.
This just brings up a very good point. People should just flat-out quit stalking chat. If you aren't there to participate, what are you there for? It's creepy.
I love how this subject conveniently diverges from the original point being made. ;)
Besides- I think people here are pretty open about it when they don't like your company (something to like about this board?) :). You being, anyone. Especially Jim. Are we saying Jim is two faced? I feel he is pretty straight-forward about his likes/dislikes when it comes to others, which is why we have this very thread to post this in in the first place.
I wish you'd refuted points. His post seemed completely reasonable to me, and yours just called him insane. Not so much an easy laugh as a WTF.
You don't read his posts, but you know he doesn't talk about his personal life enough, but you don't want to know anything about him. You don't like the lack of real discussion in the politics forum, but you won't argue politics or ideas with one of the frequent posters in that forum. You call BigV's worldview insane, but this seems a bit schizophrenic.And now BigV should "go back" somewhere. Like he isn't a real Dwellar.
I can't go back and do that now. BigV went through this thread and selected things to comment on. I saw it as exacerbating the already tense situation. (I was hesitant to reply to this post for that very reason....but I am only because it's you asking)I recognize that I'm the one that began this thread, but it is quite obvious that I'm not alone in my views.....no more alone than you and redux are.
I can see your side of this. To me, it seems that because you agree politically with redux, you are more apt to see him as a real being. Or maybe it's not because of politics at all. Maybe you honestly think that he contributes something worth while.
I said I don't read his posts.... i did say that. And I don't. I tried a few times... But now I get the impression that he just has his political point of view and offers the same counterpoint to the other political posters that I don't read. I never was much interested in politics. I have made my point about his and other people's domination of those forums. I'll let that stand.
as for telling BigV to go away? like he's not a real dwellar? Well, everyone has their own definition of a dwellar. My reaction there was to his saying that 'a little bird' told him to read this. (I wonder how spex feels about that) I imagine that he drops by occasionally at this point, but spends more time elsewhere. Maybe I'm way off there. In any event, I didn't like the arrogant way he posted his critique of how we were handling this when he is scarcely involved in the cellar. I won't say I'm subtle, but sometimes I make leaps and don't show my reasoning.
I hope we can let this issue settle down at some point and see if we've helped or hurt the atmosphere. Maybe.... If Merc, Classic, Redux and Spex can turn the spite knobs down from 11 to 7 or so..... we can all puull together as a team. I, for one will try not to bicker for more than 3 posts in a row! whaddaya say?! who's with me!?
From the perspective of one of the bad guys, I thought there were many valid and constructive criticisms, but also many questions conveniently ignored.
IMO, if one is assuming the role of facilitator, those questions should have been addressed.
I also got a good laugh out of the strongly urged suggestion to be more "real" and at the same time, the statement that it really wouldnt make a difference.
which questions in particular did you want answers for?
strongly urged suggestion to be more "real" and at the same time, the statement that it really wouldnt make a difference.
that's not what I was suggesting. i was saying that I don't demand to KNOW you. Just that if you
want to be seen as a human, you should appear as one. It is apparently a difficult concept for some to grasp.
Look around the board for examples. People that share their flaws and strengths, fears and pride.....stories and boasts and jokes..... you make allowances for that stuff.... That's how people interact.
Those that argue in ideals and logic and facts..... they can only stand on those legs....and if your basic underlying premise is contrary to someone else, you'll never find any common ground with them.
Redux, DO YOU WANT TO BE A PART OF THIS COMMUNITY OR NOT?
which questions in particular did you want answers for?
that's not what I was suggesting. i was saying that I don't demand to KNOW you. Just that if you want to be seen as a human, you should appear as one. It is apparently a difficult concept for some to grasp.
Look around the board for examples. People that share their flaws and strengths, fears and pride.....stories and boasts and jokes..... you make allowances for that stuff.... That's how people interact.
Those that argue in ideals and logic and facts..... they can only stand on those legs....and if your basic underlying premise is contrary to someone else, you'll never find any common ground with them.
Redux, DO YOU WANT TO BE A PART OF THIS COMMUNITY OR NOT?
Jim....my point that I, or anyone, should be able to be a part of the community in the manner in which we chose....not by some standard that you or anyone else imposes....(and, for example, points not be awarded or deducted based on your personal feelings for someone).
IMO, your biases came through in the end.
.... My reaction there was to his saying that 'a little bird' told him to read this. (I wonder how spex feels about that)
If you're insinuating that I told BigV to read this, you are absolutely incorrect and more than a little obsessed with me.
Well, yes, of course you define the manner of your involvement. but you're fooling yourself if you think that people will be fair minded and treat you like everyone else if you won't even divulge your gender.
Life is a popularity contest at times. that's just a hard goddamn fact of life. People's perceptions are colored by their opinion of the presenter of information.
You are a member of this community. you don't need me to tell you that. but you do get my point, right?
If you're insinuating that I told BigV to read this, you are absolutely incorrect and more than a little obsessed with me.
no, i was just wondering how you felt about he and this undisclosed 'little bird' speaking privately. Wondering if that qualified as backstabbing in your rule book.
Why don't you and I try to be nice to each other from now on?
I'll go first.
I though you posted something funny the other day. I can't remember what, but I lolled.
Well, yes, of course you define the manner of your involvement. but you're fooling yourself if you think that people will be fair minded and treat you like everyone else if you won't even divulge your gender.
Life is a popularity contest at times. that's just a hard goddamn fact of life. People's perceptions are colored by their opinion of the presenter of information.
You are a member of this community. you don't need me to tell you that. but you do get my point, right?
Actually, I divulged my gender a long time ago....there is a pic here somewhere.
Hey, I think you were (are) well-intentioned, but as I said, IMO, unfortunately, your biases came through in the end, particularly with Big V (again, using your own standards of "active" contributor) and accusations of his being "pushed here by Spexx.
no, i was just wondering how you felt about he and this undisclosed 'little bird' speaking privately. Wondering if that qualified as backstabbing in your rule book.
Why don't you and I try to be nice to each other from now on?
I'll go first.
I though you posted something funny the other day. I can't remember what, but I lolled.
Your eyes are a lovely shade of blue.
They're green. quit looking at my tits.
Actually, I divulged my gender a long time ago....there is a pic here somewhere.
Hey, I think you were (are) well-intentioned, but as I said, IMO, unfortunately, your biases came through in the end, particularly with Big V (again, using your own standards of "active" contributor) and accusations of his being "pushed here by Spexx.
whatever dude. I have biases. so does everybody.
what does that have to do with this topic? Do you think I started this thread because I don't like democrats?
so, did you actually have questions that were conveniently ignored, or were you just being dramatic?
Actually, I divulged my gender a long time ago....there is a pic here somewhere.
Hey, I think you were (are) well-intentioned, but as I said, IMO, unfortunately, your biases came through in the end, particularly with Big V (again, using your own standards of "active" contributor) and accusations of his being "pushed here by Spexx.
He wasn't suggesting BigV had been pushed here by Spexx. It was more to do with a big storm that blew through here a while ago and damn near exploded the cellar :P BigV pretty much buggered off after that along with the new member who caused the storm, presumably off to the board from which said storm had arrived.
I'm sorry you and Dana feel that way. Not surprised, though.
Does that mean me and Sundae are in the tree house club?
whatever dude. I have biases. so does everybody.
what does that have to do with this topic? Do you think I started this thread because I don't like democrats?
so, did you actually have questions that were conveniently ignored, or were you just being dramatic?
I think you started this thread to address a problem and IMO, for the most part you were fair and balanced.
In the end, IMO, you lost your objectivity..the questions ignored were those by Big V...but no big deal.
I think you started this thread to address a problem and IMO, for the most part you were fair and balanced.
In the end, IMO, you lost your objectivity..the questions ignored were those by Big V...but no big deal.
I think that's pretty fair. But there is a little bad blood there. It was a very particular situation that led to that bad blood.
I think that's pretty fair. But there is a little bad blood there. It was a very particular situation that led to that bad blood.
Dana, thanks for the clarification. If that is the case, I apologize.
I really dont want to nitpick other posts or comments...but from my perspective, the objectivity as a facilitator was lost at some point .
And, contrary to Jim's assertion/suggestion from yesterday, I am not bitter, just slightly befuddled (by standards of being "real) and bemused (by some of the childish insults and personal characterizations directed my way) that went unchecked.
I am not bitter, just slightly befuddled (by standards of being "real) and bemused (by some of the personal insults and characterizations directed my way) that went unchecked.
You could be specific and direct here, and perhaps get these things cleared up.
Well, if it's any consolation Redux, you seem pretty real to me :P
Good advice from Jinx as well. This is one of those rare opportunities that comes along every so often, to actually get things aired properly.
You could be specific and direct here, and perhaps get these things cleared up.
Sure.
Monster's posts? Dingleberries and Aspergers Syndrome?
Do you really think they contributed to the discussion in a meaningful way. Did I post anything to bring that on?
http://cellar.org/showpost.php?p=664583&postcount=202
TheMercinary's charge that I was a "plant"....yes, that one was too funny and did not really need any request to prove it.
OK, just to clear up the one bit where he quoted me and I didn't respond.
I said that Dux comes across as less of a "real person" to us than Merc
V said that this made him laugh and then wrote "OF COURSE he's a REAL PERSON."
Dux, at no time was I suggesting that you are a robot, software program, or any other form of automaton.
I thought that was utterly obvious and would go without saying to anyone not looking for an argument.
I don't want to speak for Monster: but I think you basically copped for all the flak. I suspect her annoyance was actually a little wider than that, but you got into the line of fire :P
I think you started this thread to address a problem and IMO, for the most part you were fair and balanced.
In the end, IMO, you lost your objectivity..the questions ignored were those by Big V...but no big deal.
ok, not to nitpick here, but I just re read all 3 of V's posts. I don't see
any questions. Only one ? and that was him talking to monster.
so...if not his....were there unanswered questions? or not?
the only reason I'm pressing here is because you are claiming that I'm being un-objective..... and If this is why, I'd like to address it.
Sure.
Monster's posts? Dingleberries and Aspergers Syndrome?
Do you really think they contributed to the discussion in a meaningful way. Did I post anything to bring that on?
I believe the argumentative cut and pasted post brought from another thread is what brought that on.
I still think Monnie was a tad unfair in that instance. Redux was defending himself against what was being levelled at him. I'd probably have done the same.
It's just that in doing so, he inadvertently played right into the very thing that's been so annoying elsewhere on the boards. In this instance, I don't see that he was in anyway the main offender.
But see, this is what happens when things get to boiling point. I completely understand how come Monster saw red.
Yeah, I wouldn't argue with any of that.
I'm sorry you and Dana feel that way. Not surprised, though.
Again I echo Dana - you assume we are part of the Treehouse Club.
No.
We are part of this community.
You have completely ignored everything else I have written.
That disappoints me.
What? Should I name the few Dwellars I have a beef with? Should I stir up shit so that you realise I'm not part of a clique?
I'm not in any kind of Spex Hate Group. In any way, shape or form.
I'm not in any kind of LJ Love Group. Ditto above.
And I certainly don't conform to any "typical" Dwellar views.
Spex you are challenging what I love about this place.
Individuals, with very different views, able to air those without personal spite.
I want you to continue as a Dwellar. I will miss you if you don't. And yes, I apply the same standards to Merc et al. You can't control his posts, but you can control yours.
OKAY. This is the end.
No more from me.
SHUSH.
ok, not to nitpick here, but I just re read all 3 of V's posts. I don't see any questions. Only one ? and that was him talking to monster.
so...if not his....were there unanswered questions? or not?
the only reason I'm pressing here is because you are claiming that I'm being un-objective..... and If this is why, I'd like to address it.
Jim...I said I thought you were well-intentioned and objective for the most part. I was referring to the
link from BigV, but you are correct, it was not in the form of a question....and putting, V aside,
HM's follow up post, which raised the question of objectivity.
Thanks for your effort. I mean it. For the most part, it was helpful and constructive...., despite the few laughable (IM0) posts by a few.
If I were UT, I would close the discussion and tell us all to move on.
Well, if it's any consolation Redux, you seem pretty real to me :P
[INDENT][YOUTUBE]Eb5JSKr2m6Q[/YOUTUBE][/INDENT]
lol
For one horrible, terrifying moment, I thought you'd rickrolled me :p
lol
For one horrible, terrifying moment, I thought you'd rickrolled me :p
Fixed it.
I post...therefore, I am.
He wasn't suggesting BigV had been pushed here by Spexx. It was more to do with a big storm that blew through here a while ago and damn near exploded the cellar :P BigV pretty much buggered off after that along with the new member who caused the storm, presumably off to the board from which said storm had arrived.
I don't think BigV ever left to go to anywhere. I believe, that like myself, he simply found it impossible to post in this place without a number of regular dwellars jumping all over his posts and accusing him of particular biases. There are plenty of semi regular posters who don't post much because some people around here make it unpleasant to be here in any real way.
To those people, and obviously you know who you are, I suggest you'd find things a lot more interesting around here if the environment fostered newcommers who actually might feel welcome.
As to the whole incident with PD. Well, I have some pretty strong opinions on who was really in the wrong there, but they're not popular opinions with the people who seem to think they run this place, so I'm not even going to bother.
Oh yeah, and before you decide to have your usual little dog pile, let me get in first.
Just fuck off. You suck and I don't like you, so nothing you have to say matters to me.
Well that's helpful Ali.
*shakes head*
This thread is descending rapidly again. FFs close it before something explodes.
I don't care if it's helpful Dana. My point is it's the same group of people trying to tell everyone else how to behave around here, and anyone who disagrees is turned into some kind of pariah.
I'm sorry if you happen to be friends with that group. My comments are not directed at you, but I refuse to have you or anyone else tell me when my opinion is valid or 'helpful'.
I withdraw neither comment -I had just come back from a week's camp with 4 kids diagnosed on that scale. Your posts made it seem like I was still there. That you should take it as an insult is more telling than anything else. Those kids are all great (well 3.5 of them are at least) -but hard work and very repetative with little comprehension when you try to explain hoew their behaviour affect people socially.
And I love the phrase professional dingleberry, thanks for reminding me. I must save it for the next one I meet IRL.
Furthermore/While I'm at it, BigV has a history of (a) crapping all over the board (b) coming heroically to the defence of any poster who makes it to the intolerably irritating point and causes someone to snap and tell it like it is (c) gunning for me at every opportunity. That's why I don't bother to read the majority of his posts, I don't have time for his little obsessions, don't care what he calls me ofr thinks of me, and certainly have no respect for his opinion on board matters (although I do occasionally gain amusement from his coming back here playing the whiter-than-white knight in shining armor -and calling others hypocrites).
As for the backstabbing thing.... it's only backstabbing if you pretend to like somone to their face. So why spexxvet should be obsessed with it is totally beyond me. ;)
It has nothing to do with who I am, or am not, friends with.
I just thought that this thread seemed to be heading towards something vaguely useful/peaceful/helpful and now we are back to 'Fuck off I don't care.'
oh, now here's a shocker.
the thread looks as if it's in danger of resolving into an amicable resolution....and who turns up?
why it's aliantha~! what a surprise!
and shockingly enough, she's trying to turn the whole thing into her very own pity party!
this NEVER happens!
except for like... the last 3 or 4 times....
christ.
It might have been helpful to some, but from my perspective, it's just more of the same. I don't see too many of the people complaining being the ones that engage much (if at all) with the ones they're complaining about.
Ever since I joined this place, there's always been at least one and usually more people who prefer to post in politics and current events who are disliked and ridiculed by some of the other regular posters here. What's the difference now? Nothing from what I can see. It's just the same people complaining about the same thing. BooHoo! Poor them. It's terrible how people are so mean to them and don't consider how THEY might feel about what's being posted.
FFS! Give me a break.
Grow up!
Oh fuck off Ali. Give it a rest.
oh, now here's a shocker.
the thread looks as if it's in danger of resolving into an amicable resolution....and who turns up?
why it's aliantha~! what a surprise!
and shockingly enough, she's trying to turn the whole thing into her very own pity party!
this NEVER happens!
except for like... the last 3 or 4 times....
christ.
Oh yeah, and like I didn't expect to see this post. As per usual, I'm not allowed to consider the situation and then post something. Oh no...I should post at a time that's convenient to lumberjim and his entourage.
This is the real reason I've chosen to post now.
I've sat here and read this thread for several days without saying much, and the post I made earlier in this thread went unremarked. The fact is, you're gradually getting to have your own little go at all the people you don't like here, as per usual, and you expect everyone to just sit back and watch it happen.
Well, I don't happen to agree with your point of view on most things, and I certainly don't now. You've made my time here virtually intollerable because i never know when you're going to jump on something I post and make it personal, just like you do to anyone else who disagrees with you. I'm fucking sick to the back teeth of it, and so are a lot of others.
You don't own this place, and you don't make it better. You just post here like everyone else. This is not your site. You don't get to call the shots.
Oh fuck off Ali. Give it a rest.
You don't get to be the mediator and the arsehole Dana.
Choose one or the other.
The fact is, you're gradually getting to have your own little go at all the people you don't like here, .
well, that's
one way of seeing it I suppose.
You don't get to be the mediator and the arsehole Dana.
Choose one or the other.
I can't tell you how to post but you can tell me?
I see how that works
I apologise for being rude. I still think you should give it a rest.
Just my opinion like. I just dont see much point in all this martyrdom.
Honestly Dana, my grievance is not against you, and I'd rather not have you take offence at anything I post, but you can't try to be peacemaker in one post and then the very next tell me to fuck off...can you? That was all I meant. There's no need for any apology.
I don't really see it as martyrdom. I'm not putting myself on a block to have my head chopped off. It's just a case of the same people doing the same thing and it irritates me. I don't think it's fair and I hold myself still most of the time, but this thread is going on and on, and nothing is going to change. People will just do what they do and others will let it happen. I guess everyone sees things differently, and that's what makes the world go around, but I am honestly angry that a small group have made it less enjoyable for me to visit one of my favourite places on the net.
I withdraw neither comment -I had just come back from a week's camp with 4 kids diagnosed on that scale. Your posts made it seem like I was still there. That you should take it as an insult is more telling than anything else. Those kids are all great (well 3.5 of them are at least) -but hard work and very repetative with little comprehension when you try to explain hoew their behaviour affect people socially.
And I love the phrase professional dingleberry, thanks for reminding me. I must save it for the next one I meet IRL.
...
I'm not insulted by childish attacks. I took it for what is what and laughed.
Still laughing that you stand by it. :D
Do not lock this thread.
Not to worry, they don't use chastity belts here. You can have all you want.
Now for something completely different ... my Merc impersonation:
:corn:
Pretty good, huh?!
As for the backstabbing thing.... it's only backstabbing if you pretend to like somone to their face. So why spexxvet should be obsessed with it is totally beyond me. ;)
I never said that someone was stabbing
me in the back, Monnie. What were you thinking?
Not to worry, they don't use chastity belts here. You can have all you want.
Now for something completely different ... my Merc impersonation:
:corn:
Pretty good, huh?!
Nice! LOL
To Dana and Sundae.
I didn't bring up "the treehouse club", someone else did. But look at this thread. You can't deny that there are factions in the Cellar, and they're always the same. As much as you deny being in the club, I've noticed that in these situations, you *always* post critically of me. This could be because
A You feel I'm in the right, but there is *some reason* why don't post in support
B It doesn't matter whether I'm in the right or in the wrong, You'll *always* post critically of me
or
C You think I'm *always* in the wrong. Now that's possible. It's as poosible as either of you being *always* in the right or *always* in the wrong. And if you think I'm *always* in the wrong, that's ok - I won't call you a sick, twisted fuck, as I've been called. And please, if you've posted in support of me, just paste it here, and I'll admit I'm wrong.
But I have *NEVER* posted anything to you as dismissive, abusive, insulting, nasty, and rude as you two just posted to me.
I don't 'always' post critically of you in this sort of thread. I posted on this occasion because I disagreed with what you said, and was bemused and annoyed by it.
You seemed, to me, to be just causing trouble for shits and giggles.
And you don't think it is dismissive to simply lump my opinion in to mere factionalism?
ban your ƒuckin cock you fat sh!t for brains
[YOUTUBE]K2oLoBpFmho&start=129[/YOUTUBE]
:lol: @ jim. Love that dude.
Our two friends wrecked another potentially interesting thread. I will avoid the Cellar politics forum for a while. You win Remurk.
I am with Griff here. :) It was a great original post with the type of discussion we used to have. It's a great example of what this thread was seeking to address.
Thanks Cic, it really looked like they'd leave it alone but no such luck.
I think the problem might be that Redux doesn't know what you're going on about.
Nonsense, he/she isn't a dimwit, just a talented troll who has found a mate and a patsy. I'll reduce my already flagging political input to zero for the time being and let Remurk take full ownership. It is his/her forum let him/her have it.
That's bullshit. A couple of guys in a bar won't stop pissing on eachother day after day regardless of other people complaining about the overspray and the only solution is for everyone else to quit going to the bar if they don't like it?
That seems to be the consensus.
Well then, like I said before the cellar will suffer for that. some people will walk away because they tire of the unchecked shitslinging in those forums, but never fear, because new dwellars will appear. Of course, if they stick around it is obviously because the shitslinging is cool with them.
While the cellar is ever evolving do you really want it evolving into a community that either embraces the stupidity or just refuses to enter two of the major forums?
didn't you already say that?
I see no improvement or resolution after several days and 8 pages; but I do see more hurt feelings than before.
I am obviously missing something.
That's bullshit. A couple of guys in a bar won't stop pissing on eachother day after day regardless of other people complaining about the overspray and the only solution is for everyone else to quit going to the bar if they don't like it?
Well then, like I said before the cellar will suffer for that. some people will walk away because they tire of the unchecked shitslinging in those forums, but never fear, because new dwellars will appear. Of course, if they stick around it is obviously because the shitslinging is cool with them.
While the cellar is ever evolving do you really want it evolving into a community that either embraces the stupidity or just refuses to enter two of the major forums?
Dear Griff
Please let me reinforce l123's comments to you.
*I* value your input. Your withdrawal from the political conversations here would be a loss for me personally, and permanently impoverish the cellar as a whole.
I won't tell you what to do. But I sincerely hope you don't quit contributing to the cellar, especially in the political conversations.
Yours,
Big V, Why does it appear that you are trying so hard to regain favor with the regular posters after being gone and absent for so long? Why don't you just rejoin the conversation in any thread?
Hi mercy. Did you have a particular thread in mind? Is my absence conspicuous in some place?
As for your perception that I'm trying hard to regain the favor... what? huh? do you object in some way to me making favorable supportive posts?
That's a couple of pretty unusual questions you've posed for me. I'd welcome some clarification, if you please.
Hi mercy. Did you have a particular thread in mind? Is my absence conspicuous in some place?
As for your perception that I'm trying hard to regain the favor... what? huh? do you object in some way to me making favorable supportive posts?
That's a couple of pretty unusual questions you've posed for me. I'd welcome some clarification, if you please.
Thank you for your respectful and kind reply. It seems to me that after your long absence of posting that you immediately assumed a position of right and wrong concerning my posting style, mostly of which I assumed was a negative perception. If I have been mistaken please let me know and I shall retract any views which seem to be contrary to that position.
Thank you for your respectful and kind reply. It seems to me that after your long absence of posting that you immediately assumed a position of right and wrong concerning my posting style, mostly of which I assumed was a negative perception. If I have been mistaken please let me know and I shall retract any views which seem to be contrary to that position.
My pleasure.
I haven't had a long absence of posting. I have had a great reduction of post volume, but never really an absence. We probably just haven't crossed paths during that period.
I *think* what you're getting at is what is my opinion of your posting style. You say you think I've assumed a position of right or wrong on your posting style. While I do have an *opinion*, my opinion can't be right or wrong about your style, mercy. It's just my opinion.
I'll dare one step further. I *think* you think I have a negative perception about your posting style. I do. When it comes to political matters, your posting style leaves me with a strongly negative perception. I'm not taking issue with your viewpoints, I'm not arguing the facts here. When it comes to posting style, on most matters political, to me, your posting style is little more than noise, and it is often loud and unpleasant. Hence the negative perception.
In the other areas where I've had the pleasure of reading your posts, this voice is absent. We've known each other for a long time and I like you, we get along. I expect that will continue for the foreseeable future.
Yours, respectfully.
Dear Griff
Please let me reinforce l123's comments to you.
*I* value your input. Your withdrawal from the political conversations here would be a loss for me personally, and permanently impoverish the cellar as a whole.
I won't tell you what to do. But I sincerely hope you don't quit contributing to the cellar, especially in the political conversations.
Yours,
I appreciate your sentiment V. I have no intention of leaving the entire Cellar, but I'm not going to waste my time either. The political forum had always been interesting to me because of the subtle differences in perspective. We haven't seen subtlety in a conversation there in a long time. mercenary has always been a problem for me, but he cannot pull down a whole forum on his own. He brought in an earlier left wing foil who also provided more smoke than fire and now we have an anonymous left-winger who plays the assigned role more perfectly. A lot of this is personal, I despise mercs on-line persona. From the beginning, I hoped he was a short-timer, since he posts like one. It is unfortunate but it is, so I'll just stay out of their way.
Would it help if I stalked and tormented the shit out of the both of them until their minds collapsed?
I really thought I was the problem, I was wrong - again.
Would it help if I stalked and tormented the shit out of the both of them until their minds collapsed?
Why yes, yes it would. It would be ineffective in the end but enjoyable.
I really thought I was the problem, I was wrong - again.
I don't know how others see it, but I see you as inadvertently giving cover to redux by leaving openings when repeating things which you haven't checked the facts on, providing him/her the excuse needed to take a big crap on a thread. You're being used this way because your habit here has always been to go to fellow Dwellars for fact checking. The rules have apparently been changed, we can only come to political threads with answers not questions, hence the dominance of the tea-bag answer and the democrat answer. You are still a fellow dwellar not a problem as far as I am concerned.
Good fucking God.
The scariest thing on earth has to be me agreeing with merc on something.
_____________________________________________
Who me?
You!
No, them.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh, those two.
No, you and that other one.
Me?
No, you and her.
Him?
Not me, right?
How dare you be mean. You're not in the club.
She's pouting!
He's staring!
Mommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmy!
OK, who was it?
Him!
Her!
Not me? Please not me. I've been so good.
Him!
His dog!
His cat!
Oh, good, not me. You?
Wait til your father gets home.
But he...
But she...
_______________________________________________________
Yes, this applies to everyone. Give it a fucking break.
I almost wish dux really was jim's puppet, so this crybaby crap could finally be over.
Too harsh? Too bad.
I really thought I was the problem, I was wrong - again.
I see you as huge part of the problem because you njoy the fruitless petty arguments so much. It wasn't redux that chased tw around for YEARS prior to the gonorrhea dripping whore incedent. This is all just more of the same crap.
thanks Griff. Yup its a new game and I'm choosing not to play.
Gotcha jinx. Your probably in the majority with that opinion as well.
I've put them all on ignore. I haven't responded to anything since then.
Thank you C, please try to keep it up.
Yes, this applies to everyone. Give it a fucking break.
Your team is represented so you don't have a bitch, got it. Enjoy
your damn forum.
I'll dare one step further. I *think* you think I have a negative perception about your posting style. I do. When it comes to political matters, your posting style leaves me with a strongly negative perception. I'm not taking issue with your viewpoints, I'm not arguing the facts here. When it comes to posting style, on most matters political, to me, your posting style is little more than noise, and it is often loud and unpleasant. Hence the negative perception.
Well... rather than make this out to be me pointing at the numerous other regular posters whom participate in this site and also have extremely negative posting styles, I accept your opinion but of course I disagree.
In the other areas where I've had the pleasure of reading your posts, this voice is absent. We've known each other for a long time and I like you, we get along. I expect that will continue for the foreseeable future.
Yours, respectfully.
Thanks.
Yes, this applies to everyone. Give it a fucking break.
No.
The process of conflict resolution might be annoying to you, but it hasn't gone on nearly as long as the poo-flinging asshole show, and actually might accomplish something. Help or hinder, your choice. Or just ignore it, right?
Your team is represented so you don't have a bitch, got it. Enjoy your damn forum.
Not my team. Not my game. Not my forum. Just me still not learning to keep my mouth shut. ;) I like you, I have no beef with you. A goat, maybe.
Anyway, then, it's still an issue for some. OK. What should be done? The consensus seems to be no banning (I agree) and the consensus seems to be that ignoring those who offend you in those threads isn't an option, and the consensus seems to be that 'those two' are out of line in the politics threads (not otherwise known as the butterfly and candy threads.) So, what can be done?
Now I shall go sew my big mouth shut.
edit: just read your post jinx. Hey, I don't really care to help OR hinder. Ignore is a good idea, though.
I had a strong negative reaction to The Mercenary when he first arrived, but somehow this faded with time and I grew to like him, as a person. Much like MOST of you had a VERY STRONG negative reaction to ME when I first arrived, and I can't say for sure that you all like me now, but you certainly have learned to live with me--and I DON'T make it easy.
These kinds of situations are supposed to work themselves out. There is probably some adjustment and compromise on all sides (although I would never admit to such) and eventually a new "normal" is achieved by everyone.
I don't know about help, hinder, or ignore...but I do enjoy a good "make fun of" while it is happening.
I enjoy making fun of your wang.
I don't know about help, hinder, or ignore...but I do enjoy a good "make fun of" while it is happening.
I know, right? Me too!
I enjoy making fun of your wang.
this, from our resident macro photographer who has an eye for the minutest detail...
I would have bet money that flint's response to jinx's comment would be a misquote that read "I enjoy your wang"
I'm almost disappointed.
All that matters is that jinx is thinking about my wang.
The things you miss when you're not around for a couple of weeks - twenty-three pages of guerilla warfare! Who needs to read the politics forum when you can drop down here instead? You'll have to forgive me for not reading all 23 pages.
Since this is apparently the thread where we can blast anyone we want, I would like to take the opportunity to dump on urbane guerilla. As far as I am concerned, he is the nastiest poster here - far worse than Merc or anyone else folks are complaining about.
I mostly skip UG's posts, but every now and then I read one by accident. Blech! Can he get the dog treatment or whatever it is you all have decided to do to posters you consider evil? :thepain:
The things you miss when you're not around for a couple of weeks - twenty-three pages of guerilla warfare! Who needs to read the politics forum when you can drop down here instead? You'll have to forgive me for not reading all 23 pages.
Since this is apparently the thread where we can blast anyone we want, I would like to take the opportunity to dump on urbane guerilla. As far as I am concerned, he is the nastiest poster here - far worse than Merc or anyone else folks are complaining about.
I mostly skip UG's posts, but every now and then I read one by accident. Blech! Can he get the dog treatment or whatever it is you all have decided to do to posters you consider evil? :thepain:
Hear! Hear! lol
I see you as huge part of the problem because you njoy the fruitless petty arguments so much. It wasn't redux that chased tw around for YEARS prior to the gonorrhea dripping whore incedent. This is all just more of the same crap.
Thank you. I had almost forgotten but the memory of it was surfacing. I was trying to remember who that was without asking. Thanks! Now I know why, it's one of those you are consciously trying to forget. That pisses me off all over again. No worries, the anger will be temporary.
I personally know not to enter the politics unless I want to be served undue personal attacks. Maybe we are due for an overhaul.
I remember the last time I posted, I was diverted from the topic and told to go cry? No one in their right mind would waste their time with debates strewn off course with the personal attacks littering the politics threads. This really is just an indicator, if you would like legitimate political discussion the cellar is not the place for it, currently. Maybe a few of us are requesting a long overdue change.
Who needs to read the politics forum when you can drop down here instead?
Quite. The politics forum really shouldn't look like this, but it does.
It frustrates the heck out of me that Redux is being lumped in the offending group when he certainly didn't start out that way and really did resist the urge to retaliate that way as well, until recently. The main offender, the one who was flinging poo even before Redux showed up, is Merc. AND that he DID carry that style over to other forums. (Remember the cunt calling episodes...anyone?) And Merc is still REFUSING to acknowledge that his posting style in the politics forum is distasteful and foul for the most part. If Merc didn't post in the politics forum the level of discourse would improve dramatically.
It frustrates the heck out of me that Redux is being lumped in the offending group when he certainly didn't start out that way and really did resist the urge to retaliate that way as well, until recently.
I agree. Redux's posts are usually informative and he cites real sources to back up his arguments - NOT the op ed junk that others subject us to
ad nauseum. So, he's a liberal. BFD. If he is personally attacked he gives as good as he gets. I don't blame him. But he seldom starts the shit slinging on his own.
I am weary of all this complaining and name calling - especially on the part of people who wouldn't be caught dead in the politics forum, anyhow.
Tell me how this thread is an improvement over what has gone on before. :banghead: :dedhorse:
And the beat goes on:
It's not "just facts".
Do you think that "Obama: You can keep the plan you have." meant that he would force insurers and employers to never change their plans?
Old plans are grandfathered in. You can keep them to the extent that you could ever keep your plan, before or after this legislation - based on the contract between your employer and insurer. This legislation did not change that.
But it did discourage the continuing worsening of the new contracts, by saying that if you want to increase employees' costs, you have to give up your grandfathering status. So some employees may be able to keep the plan they like longer than they would have been able to before.
Pretty reasonable, respectful post.
Nope, not at all. I would fully expect them to change as they had in the past.
Completely false. Read again for comprehension. That is the main reason why I posted the link.
Uh, no thats not how I read that at all. Unfortunately we really do not know how this is going to play out, but it is beginning to look like things will change based upon what most reasonable people would consider to be technicalities.
Different target, same dismissive, insulting style.
thanks Griff. Yup its a new game and I'm choosing not to play.
Gotcha jinx. Your probably in the majority with that opinion as well.
I've put them all on ignore. I haven't responded to anything since then.
Then either keep out of discussions of my posts or ignore them completely and stop with the childish sniping.
and his post (in the arizona thread, we are left to assume) is somehow worse than you taking it to another thread and chastising him about it there? ...in the thread that used to be about improving this situation, I might ad.
If none of you fuckers will ever take the goddamn high road, and let one go bye, this will never get any better. You're like 13 year old girls feuding over hurt feelings.
cunting cunts.
and his post (in the arizona thread, we are left to assume) is somehow worse than you taking it to another thread and chastising him about it there? ...in the thread that used to be about improving this situation, I might ad.
If none of you fuckers will ever take the goddamn high road, and let one go bye, this will never get any better. You're like 13 year old girls feuding over hurt feelings.
cunting cunts.
From one who sends childish PMs to people you dont like.....setting a fine example yourself!
my shenanigans are cheeky and fun. yours are cruel and tragic. Which... makes them not really shenanigans at all.
Evil shenanigans!
my shenanigans are cheeky and fun. yours are cruel and tragic.
Its all in the eyes of the beholder.
I think yours are childish (not cheeky) as a cover to being mean spirited.
Your personal attacks of some others here (not me) were hardly fun for those you target.
Its all in the eyes of the beholder.
I think yours are childish (not cheeky) as a cover to being mean spirited.
Your personal attacks of some others here (not me) were hardly fun for those you target.
[YOUTUBE]_JR8ols4mYc&start=50[/YOUTUBE]
:thumb:
The double standards never cease to amaze me.
And nice to see you again!
mainly i wanted to say, 'Shut the Fuck up'. but that's such a good song.....
thing is, I'm not at all mean spirited. if you listen to a few people who have some anger and resentment issues, they'll tell you otherwise.... but if you have any kind of a sense of humor about yourself, and can take a little poke in the ribs, I'm nothing to worry about.
if you get all bent and start freaking out, you just look silly. there are a few people who I've mocked unmercifully, but they really and truly deserved it. If you act like a toolbox, I'm going to take the piss out of you, and I don't need to make it personal to do that.
mainly i wanted to say, 'Shut the Fuck up'. but that's such a good song.....
thing is, I'm not at all mean spirited. if you listen to a few people who have some anger and resentment issues, they'll tell you otherwise.... but if you have any kind of a sense of humor about yourself, and can take a little poke in the ribs, I'm nothing to worry about.
if you get all bent and start freaking out, you just look silly. there are a few people who I've mocked unmercifully, but they really and truly deserved it. If you act like a toolbox, I'm going to take the piss out of you, and I don't need to make it personal to do that.
Believe me...I dont worry about you and I frequently laugh..at you, not with you.
You see what you see in others and are blind to what others might see in you.....cant have it both ways, dude.
You judge others (they deserve it), but dont accept or like being judged.
My advice...clean up your own act before you criticize others.
You judge others (they deserve it), but dont accept or like being judged.
My advice...clean up your own act before you criticize others.
This is where you're wrong. I don't get all butt hurt when people tell me about myself. If they're right about it, and I am out of line, I cop to it.
but this isn't about me... it's about YOU. quit trying to deflect the poo we're flinging at you, and admit that your an argumentative little bitch, and no one will get hurt.
this is getting us nowhere. I'd like to see some concrete suggestions to fix the problem instead of endless name-calling and finger pointing. I'd make a few, but they're all pretty much moderator-oriented, which y'all have rejected out of hand. 'Cause we're all so civilized here, we don't need no stinkin' moderators.
[COLOR="White"]
Just in case, here are a few:
1) temp ban a few people for a short period of time to allow things to cool off
2) Actively moderate the politics thread to prevent flame wars (flame wars being defined as overt personal attacks, rather than spirited political discussion)
3) Encourage people "take the bait" when things get heated
4) turn off the quote and multi-quote function in the politics forum
5) delete offending posts or lock threads[/COLOR]
Why pick on the politics threads? This thread has been every bit as bad as anything I've seen in the politics forum. People can and do get nasty anywhere they feel like it.
oh, I agree. But this thread was specifically started to address a problem with the politics and current events threads, right?
The worst thing that could happen is some king of "moderated board" bullshit.
If you feel that you want a board moderated, DO NOT GO TO THAT BOARD. That is the ultimate solution...don't ruin the whole goddamn site. Same with locked threads--DO NOT READ THAT THREAD. Same with banned users--PUT THAT USER ON IGNORE. Some of us can handle ourselves just fine without a net nanny to change our diapers and put a Hello Kitty bandaid on our boo-boos.
you can say that, but no one seems willing to back off or act in a civilized manner. It's like a bunch of two year olds running around with no supervision. After so many pages of discussion, and more and more vociferous name calling among the principals here, we are no better off, and no solution is in sight. And just saying, "we don't need no stinkin' moderators" isn't helping a whit, that I can see.
So, again, if you don't like my suggestions, fine-- come up with better ones. Concrete ones, even temporary ones. Ones that will ameliorate the problem, even a little. I wasn't insisting on them, just trying to offer some practical alternatives to this pathetic display of defensiveness, indecisiveness, and vitriol.
My solution is do nothing. Literally. It is working for me, if it isn't working for you then you must be doing something wrong.
This is where you're wrong. I don't get all butt hurt when people tell me about myself. If they're right about it, and I am out of line, I cop to it.
but this isn't about me... it's about YOU. quit trying to deflect the poo we're flinging at you, and admit that your an argumentative little bitch, and no one will get hurt.
I was respectful through most of this "discussion" (sic).
Now.....its clear to me that you were not interested in resolving the issue as much as you were in playing some role to make yourself feel better and to put down others.
After all, you have given yourself the right to determine if people "really and truly deserved" mocking...and those who disagree with you have no place in the discussion.
If it makes you feel better to call me an "argumentative bitch"...have at it. I'm on to you, dude.
You wanna piss on me....I'll piss right back, big boy.:D
IMO, you are probably the most destructive influence in the Cellar. Its not Merc or me or anyone else...YOU are the one who is so full of himself and the one who apparently gets some childish pleasure and self-gratification in causing discourse.
oh, I agree. But this thread was specifically started to address a problem with the politics and current events threads, right?
Only LJ knows for sure. I didn't realize that current events was included in the new cellar censorship. Can we still post freely in the other forums?
I manage to survive in the politics forum by refraining from overt nastiness, just as you suggest. If other people want to be uncivil that is their problem.
The cellar has never been censored before. Why start now?
There have been plenty of free for alls here in the past. The cellar managed to survive them. If people don't care for the occasional spats here, there's lots of heavily moderated forums out there in Internet land that they can join instead.
The prime confusion here seems to be this: it's not about civility, and it's not about name-calling. There's been plenty of name-calling here in the past. It's about inanity. The conversations in question are so irritating to so many people not because they are negative and mean-spirited, but because they are completely inane. They go in circles and never get anywhere.
It helps if you imagine your conversation being read loudly at a party. If that would make you and your conversing partner look like a couple of single-minded dicks who are incapable of socializing, then your thread is doing the same thing.
I frequently laugh..at you, not with you.
Srsly, dude? Rly? Only schoolkids use this phrase. So lame. And not the first time you've trotted it out. I think you've been copying from your neighbor. Pls try harder with the originality, mmkay? C- report to the detention master after school. This will not be recorded on your permanent record.
:p:
...
YOU are the one who is so full of himself and the one who apparently gets some childish pleasure and self-gratification in causing discourse.
Now I'm confused. I thought we all wanted to be causing discourse.
Just to clarify, Cloud, my comment wasn't directed at you. Regardless of whether your moderation suggestions would work, I can at least appreciate that you're trying to find a solution.
link
THATS A BAD LINK, CUNTBALLS.
mainly i wanted to say, 'Shut the Fuck up'. but that's such a good song.....
thing is, I'm not at all mean spirited. if you listen to a few people who have some anger and resentment issues, they'll tell you otherwise.... but if you have any kind of a sense of humor about yourself, and can take a little poke in the ribs, I'm nothing to worry about.
if you get all bent and start freaking out, you just look silly. there are a few people who I've mocked unmercifully, but they really and truly deserved it. If you act like a toolbox, I'm going to take the piss out of you, and I don't need to make it personal to do that.
:turd:
if you listen to a few people who have some anger and resentment issues, they'll tell you otherwise....
:turd:
thanks for raising your hand, and all, but I thought we were going to try to be nice to each other?
<bites tongue ... err fingers>
<bites tongue ... err fingers>
Bite my ass
thanks for raising your hand, and all, but I thought we were going to try to be nice to each other?
That wasn't mean or nice. It was a neutral assessment.
honest?
Honest injun, chief!
thanks for raising your hand, and all, but I thought we were going to try to be nice to each other?
Oh, my. That's the funniest thing I've seen posted here yet!
This thread was intended to fix a problem. A portion of us still believe there's still a problem. You want to pick fights as diversion, in this thread,and continue to develop the problem on the politics threads at the same very time!
Come on! You are caught in the very act.
Reverting to the typical name calling and insults is not going to help. I am not requesting moderation.
Moderation of the threads is not the only solution.
Discord. For 500 dollars? Pat? :)
~snip~
Discord. For 500 dollars? Pat? :)
:D
...
Redux, you can try to twist it around as much as you like, but it's just more of the same shit you do in political debate, and it's the reason why people get frustrated with you.
It comes down to something like what clodfobble said. If you acted like you would if you were really interacting with a group of friends, you'd be fine. You clearly have no interest in doing that.
If you can't tell when I'm being funny, and just tugging on your chain (when i said that you should admit that you're an argumentative little bitch I was doing this) and when I'm seriously telling you about yourself (I'm doing this now) then you're bound have issues here.
I'm not going to spend a lot of time trying to help you get this. You've been told before by other people, and I have the sense that you are resistant to introspection. You're much more likely to blame me for starting this and picking on you, and then to justify your responses by saying that you're just giving what you get. The point is that ....well, the point is this whole thread....
This thread is admittedly disruptive, as I said in the original post, but your claim that I'm the biggest disruption to the cellar in general is laughable. Either you get the fucking message here, or you don't. Griping at me, and how mean spirited I am and all that shit is just deflection and obfuscation, and it doesn't change the fact that you are a BIG part of the problem.
It seems to me at this point that you intend to continue blithely as you've been doing. I think that sucks.
This thread was intended to fix a problem. A portion of us still believe there's still a problem.
--snip--
I am not requesting moderation.
Moderation of the threads is not the only solution.
Hey Cicero
I respectfully disagree.
I think the *ONLY* solution is moderation. Specifically, self-moderation. Nothing else will work, without dramatically changing the cellar. There have been a few calls for this, there have been a few examples of this. It does have some problems though. You only know it's been working after it stops working. It's hard. It's invisible. It is often unsatisfying. It is useless as a tool of persuasion. It works poorly when only some people in the room do it and others don't. It is anathema to an extremely popular kind of post: "You're (doing it) wrong!".
I will say for myself that I exercise self-moderation, but I sometimes fail. This isn't a reason to stop though. The "how" of self-moderation can take several forms. Ignoring known sources of inflammation works for me. Composing replies offline. Compassion and respect for others helps me be better at self-moderation. Selective deafness. Giving the benefit of the doubt.
It is hard though. And I can not think of any other ideas that come close to a solution.
Redux, you can try to twist it around as much as you like, but it's just more of the same shit you do in political debate, and it's the reason why people get frustrated with you.
It comes down to something like what clodfobble said. If you acted like you would if you were really interacting with a group of friends, you'd be fine. You clearly have no interest in doing that.
If you can't tell when I'm being funny, and just tugging on your chain (when i said that you should admit that you're an argumentative little bitch I was doing this) and when I'm seriously telling you about yourself (I'm doing this now) then you're bound have issues here.
I'm not going to spend a lot of time trying to help you get this. You've been told before by other people, and I have the sense that you are resistant to introspection. You're much more likely to blame me for starting this and picking on you, and then to justify your responses by saying that you're just giving what you get. The point is that ....well, the point is this whole thread....
This thread is admittedly disruptive, as I said in the original post, but your claim that I'm the biggest disruption to the cellar in general is laughable. Either you get the fucking message here, or you don't. Griping at me, and how mean spirited I am and all that shit is just deflection and obfuscation, and it doesn't change the fact that you are a BIG part of the problem.
It seems to me at this point that you intend to continue blithely as you've been doing. I think that sucks.
Some like what I contribute and some dont....and thats fine with me.
You cant please all of the people, all of the time...particularly those with a pre-determined mindset.
As to the most mean-spirited, disruptive influence, here....I stand by what I said.
A little introspective on your own might do you some good as well. :thumb:
... As to the most mean-spirited, disruptive influence, here....I stand in what I said. ...
Fixed it for ya.
I like a good flame war as much as the next guy. But when it turns into name calling and bullshit I go play some where else. So POO POO on all y'all.
Hey Cicero
I respectfully disagree.
I think the *ONLY* solution is moderation. Specifically, self-moderation. Nothing else will work, without dramatically changing the cellar.
I like your idea to self-moderate. The threads don't need a mod. Temporary bans have worked in the past.
If you acted like you would if you were really interacting with a group of friends, you'd be fine. You clearly have no interest in doing that.
You're really saying he should act like you do with friends. I've no reason to believe Redux, and tw, and UG, don't act the same way in real life, as they do on the board.
You're really saying he should act like you do with friends. I've no reason to believe Redux, and tw, and UG, don't act the same way in real life, as they do on the board.
Yet I've heard over and over what a great guy merc is in real life (real life as it pertains to extended relationships beyond the cellar, I guess...other sorts of contributions of which I do not know.) Can we assume he is NOT like he is on the boards?
I don't seem to have a problem IRL. Maybe it's seeing my face when I joke or get fired up, because IRL people seem to like me, actually want me around. *shrug*
Merc and Classic and Redux have all been very nice to me in PM's and other ways. Yet, they seem to have some male testosterone thing going when it comes down to one another. People are many faceted. I don't think we can make sweeping generalizations about what a person is like in real life based on a message board.
PS Bruce is a sweetie pie no matter what. ;)
Yet I've heard over and over what a great guy merc is in real life (real life as it pertains to extended relationships beyond the cellar, I guess...other sorts of contributions of which I do not know.) Can we assume he is NOT like he is on the boards?
I don't seem to have a problem IRL. Maybe it's seeing my face when I joke or get fired up, because IRL people seem to like me, actually want me around. *shrug*
I agree. For me, a cheeky grin goes along way.
umm on this side of the screen anyway.:blush:
Merc and Classic and Redux have all been very nice to me in PM's and other ways. Yet, they seem to have some male testosterone thing going when it comes down to one another. People are many faceted. I don't think we can make sweeping generalizations about what a person is like in real life based on a message board.
PS Bruce is a sweetie pie no matter what. ;)
Redux has been very kind to me in PMs, as well. I can only judge people by how they treat me, and I will refrain from my other opinions.
I am also very forgiving (my ex is my best friend, ffs.) It's the repeated behavior that shuts me down. "Fool me once, shame on you...fool me 34 times, shame on me." Even I have a point where I am just done.
Republicans support banks, not taxpayers [youtube video]
Reader thinks, "This doesn't surprise me, I'll be the video demonstrates something to this effect."
and George Bush hates black people. I think you've got all the bases covered now Kanye.
Reader thinks, "Ha, that's funny. I suppose it is possible that the original poster over-simplified the situation, but still this doesn't invalidate the original poster's point. Mainly, I like this post because it is funny."
That's some respectful discussion.
Reader thinks, "Well, hell. Now this thread is ruined. I don't even care what the original point was. NOW all I see is somebody acting like a crybaby bitch with no sense of humor."
Bullshit, Flint. That is exactly the sort of snark that others are held accountable for. It didn't seem funny to Spexx because of the history of snark crap regarding such issues.
Even I have a point where I am just done.
I get this. There are posters here that I am done with, because there's just no good to come from me interacting with them. I'm comfortable with that solution, and yet, I'd rather not keep adding more posters to the ignore roster.
I don't know what the solution is though.
Held accountable in what way Shaw?
I dunno, but right now i'm really hoping no-one invokes Rule 34.
Aww, go ahead!
The fun thing about Rule*34 is that most of those depicted seem to be having a good time, even in some of the really infantile "art" where it manages to convey any emotion at all. There are a triple scad of photo-pornsites that don't have that vibe. Mike18 is almost the only exception to that that I've ever seen -- Mike the gay Russian kid always seems to be having a good time in the pics where there is someone else to have a good time with. Too, there's the Australian paysite Abbywinters.com.
Maybe... Rule Six.
Bullshit, Flint.
What do you mean Bullshit? I'm telling you what my reaction was when I read those posts.
That is exactly the sort of snark that others are held accountable for.
When you say "others are held accountable" it shows where your thinking goes off track on this issue. It doesn't matter "who" you are. There are no special "cool kid" clubs. Either you are funny or you are not. This is just like in real life: there are intangible things which make something socially awkward, and knowing what these things are allows you to navigate your way through a social interaction.
It didn't seem funny to Spexx because of the history of snark crap regarding such issues.
We can't go around worrying about what people's reactions will be. What I was pointing out was that someone consciously decided to move the thread from being funny and lighthearted into their personal "my crybaby feelings are hurt" soapbox, and THAT is a party foul.
But I have *NEVER* posted anything to you as dismissive, abusive, insulting, nasty, and rude as you two just posted to me.
Though you have posted that way to others... and have been stared down by every reader of that thread for trying it, not just the three who lined up against you then.
Your...
difficulties... with hoplophobia should be kept in mind, and the terrible consequences of empowering hoplophobia in the political sphere understood. Whatever Radar's sins, hoplophobia was not one of them. I've never suffered it either, and Merc and Classic are reliably immune to it also, as is Griff, I think.
Somebody pass me the popcorn and the shaker cheese.
Merc can be a little rough on the boards, but he's always been kind and supportive in PMs. He helped me move once, and he donated that kidney that one time. He's a good guy when you get to know him.
Classic sometime has a hard time not flinging the poo, but he's also been great with the PMs, and that time we went on vacation together is something I'll always cherish. Remember the para-sailing?
UG is a nut, the old lug. You can't take him seriously on the boards. He's really a good guy. He sharpens all my knives for me. You gotta love that.
Spexvett is on my team, so I love him, plus he set my parents up with all those free bifocals. He's a great guy. I'm not getting any younger, and he's assured me that he'll take care of my reading glasses when I need them.
But Redux. Man, Redux! He's on my team, but he sends me multiple abusive PMs every day and I caught him trying to sell my daughter to the gypsies.
What do you mean Bullshit? I'm telling you what my reaction was when I read those posts.
When you say "others are held accountable" it shows where your thinking goes off track on this issue. It doesn't matter "who" you are. There are no special "cool kid" clubs. Either you are funny or you are not. This is just like in real life: there are intangible things which make something socially awkward, and knowing what these things are allows you to navigate your way through a social interaction.
We can't go around worrying about what people's reactions will be. What I was pointing out was that someone consciously decided to move the thread from being funny and lighthearted into their personal "my crybaby feelings are hurt" soapbox, and THAT is a party foul.
I guess you read it as lighthearted and funny. I did not. Sure, have whatever reaction you want. I dont' think my sense of humor is that far removed from yours. Let me recap: Spexx makes a post about a political issue. lookout makes a 'joke' and calls him Kanye. And all spexx said was "well there's some respectful discussion." An observation, for which you felt it was ok to call him a crybaby.
Where is the name calling? I would say
Kanye and
crybaby fit that category.
The thing is, see, this thread is about the disrespect crap in the politics forum. There are those of us who have admitted to being a part of the problem, and are trying to do better. From the self-proclaimed not even close to being part of the problem, this comment was just business as usual.
Let's face it! We all be part of the problem! The problem is it's fucking POLITICS, people.
I wanted to post about the nightmare I'm going through with my teeth, but I didn't want to be called a martyr. Some words cut right through people, for whatever reason. Maybe you're immune? I wish I were. That sentence right there was martyrish. I'm just a big fucking crybaby martyr. I'm cool with that. Now, can we all admit our faults and try to do better? I doubt it. Too many are above fault.
And I don't give a hot hoot about the cool table or the club or lack of club. I've sat at the cool table my whole life, I don't need to make up any lost time. ;)
So you read one thing as funny, one as snarky, and I read them in the opposite order. That is to be expected--this is all subjective.
However, you state "others are held accountable" as the problem which absolutely indicates to me that a "cool kids club" is what you believe to be the source of the problem. How can that not be what you meant? What DID you mean when you said that?
Merc can be a little rough on the boards, but he's always been kind and supportive in PMs. He helped me move once, and he donated that kidney that one time. He's a good guy when you get to know him.
Classic sometime has a hard time not flinging the poo, but he's also been great with the PMs, and that time we went on vacation together is something I'll always cherish. Remember the para-sailing?
UG is a nut, the old lug. You can't take him seriously on the boards. He's really a good guy. He sharpens all my knives for me. You gotta love that.
Spexvett is on my team, so I love him, plus he set my parents up with all those free bifocals. He's a great guy. I'm not getting any younger, and he's assured me that he'll take care of my reading glasses when I need them.
But Redux. Man, Redux! He's on my team, but he sends me multiple abusive PMs every day and I caught him trying to sell my daughter to the gypsies.
This is really funny, glatt. :lol:
I mean, guy helps you move, that can't be taken lightly. :)
Its all in the eyes of the beholder.
I think yours are childish (not cheeky) as a cover to being mean spirited.
Your personal attacks of some others here (not me) were hardly fun for those you target.
Tw cried victim, with no more success. This post of yours exhibits not merely a great, but also a Coulter-stereotypical, tendency to fuzz into relativism combined with crying victim that the Liberal or the Left have resorted to more and more, leaving the Conservative and the rest of the Right unimpressed. Is la Coulter right about the more leftward of the Democrats, then? Here was one more demonstration of the kind of thing she talks about -- she always did dislike wussification in politics.
So you read one thing as funny, one as snarky, and I read them in the opposite order. That is to be expected--this is all subjective.
However, you state "others are held accountable" as the problem which absolutely indicates that a "cool kids club" is what you believe the source of the problem is. How can that not be what you meant? What DID you mean when you said that?
I don't think it's fair to say to anyone who objects to inconsistency that the perception is (and what it implies) that that one is not part of the club and is therefore jealous or touchy on the subject.
The comment seemed to me (and no it doesn't matter WHO you are) to be The Great Snark 2010, based on what other things have transpired. I was willing to let it go until you brought in crybaby. I suppose if one of those who don't much like me decides to stab me in the eye, I should not say something like "that wasn't very nice" because it might seem as though I'm pointing out some kind of "club." Again, I dont' give a flying rat's rump about any club. If the subject of a kinder gentler cellar has arisen, then inconsistencies will surface, and people should be free to point that out. Otherwise, the way is being paved for those clubs you keep speaking of, and the stage is set for no kind of discussion at all.
@ jinx: sorry, just saw your post.
I think all of us should be free to call others out when they are not trying (and trying is good, ain't none of us perfect) to be part of the solution of more respectful discussion, without someone coming back and pointing at the "crybaby."
P.S. I don't ignore UG though. He really makes me giggle. ;)
thing is, I'm not at all mean spirited. . .
if you get all bent and start freaking out, you just look silly. there are a few people who I've mocked unmercifully, but they really and truly deserved it. If you act like a toolbox . . .
I've been Cellardwelling since July of 2002, and despite the desire of some to dismiss me as a nutty toolbox, Lumberjim has never felt that urge in all that time... in the political sandbox or out.
UT has bitched at me -- actually bitched -- exactly once.
I suppose it's incumbent on me to point out to some folks who don't get it and don't want to, that there is a difference between being annoying and being crazy. I have values that many of my opponents never attained to, and hesitate to take up...:eyebrow:
ETA: as for whether Spexx is learning anything from this thread, read the bottom end of p. 25 and draw your own conclusions. I have.
What inconsistency Shaw? Who is held accountable for things others aren't, and how?
The comment seemed to me (and no it doesn't matter WHO you are) to be The Great Snark 2010, based on what other things have transpired.
The comment seemed to me to be consistent with the tone and content of the original post.
Parse it however the ƒuck you want, Shaw, you, in YOUR OWN WORDS, stated that you thought the problem is of how "others are held accountable" and in saying "others" you abso-ƒucking-lutely have stated that you believe this is a problem of "groups" or "group identities" and NOT simply "inconsistencies" as you have back-peddled your position to. And HOW the ƒuck is anybody not "free" to do whatever the hell they want? Where is the Cellar police that only let certain people say certain things? Anybody at all is free to be a crybaby, I am free to call them on it, and you are free to disagree with me, and I am free to tell you to take a flying leap. There is absolute freedom and equality here. You are suggesting some kind of injustice that doesn't exist.
Shaw...ya know, if the tables had been turned on that interaction, do you suppose that Spex would have been called out for his snarky comment via this thread? I do. So I totally get your comment on inconstancies. Lookouts comment was snarky and not conducive to civil discussion. It only begged for more snarkiness.
You're really saying he should act like you do with friends. I've no reason to believe Redux, and tw, and UG, don't act the same way in real life, as they do on the board.
This is why I think Bruce is smart.
I've no reason to believe that way either.
Personally -- in a couple of senses -- I figure both tw and Redux are single.
So, does this mean that we should join a Snark hunting club, that we should hunt Snark with a club; or, both?
Parse it however the ƒuck you want, Shaw, you, in YOUR OWN WORDS, stated that you thought the problem is of how "others are held accountable" and in saying "others" you abso-ƒucking-lutely have stated that you believe this is a problem of "groups" or "group identities" and NOT simply "inconsistencies" as you have back-peddled your position to. And HOW the ƒuck is anybody not "free" to do whatever the hell they want? Where is the Cellar police that only let certain people say certain things? Anybody at all is free to be a crybaby, I am free to call them on it, and you are free to disagree with me, and I am free to tell you to take a flying leap. There is absolute freedom and equality here. You are suggesting some kind of injustice that doesn't exist.
Oh my word.
I suggest you take it up with those who are calling for change, and who keep getting mad at the politics threads. I don't care.
I don't even fucking care enough to use a fucking fucked up f. :lol:
Maybe that means somebody will finally do something constructive with that friggin' loose bowsprit, Sexobon.
Not just ". . .kept looking the opposite way/And appeared unaccountably shy."
Tangential to F, I wonder what fonts can deliver the long-S?
The rule should be, anyone can make a snark, but no one can respond directly to a snark. Each snark must stand on its own merits, and each man has the responsibility to decide for himself whether it was funny or unwarranted. Lobbyists must remain 100 feet back from the snarking station.
PUT THAT LAUNDRY AWAY. The rule should be no crybaby bullcrap.
What inconsistency Shaw? Who is held accountable for things others aren't, and how?
The comment seemed to me to be consistent with the tone and content of the original post.
I'm certainly not discounting your opinion here...I just don't see that at all! And I certainly don't see how the subsequent comment got the crybaby comment.
Eh, I'm the snarker and the snarkee, in turns.
But, I thought others have been unhappy with how things were going?
So, to snark or not to snark. That is the question.
I AM WOMAN. HEAR ME SNARK.
Snark-a-doodle dooooo!
(This is all meant to be humorous.)
http://www.cellar.org/showthread.php?p=667918#post667918And I certainly don't see how the subsequent comment got the crybaby comment.
Because, rather than keep it light and funny, somebody CHOSE to cry out "MOMMY, MOMMY, THE BULLY IS TEASING ME--SEE WHAT HE DID THERE?!" Sure sounds like a ƒucking crybaby to me. Was there some other way I could have read that?
I dont shut up I grow up
And when I see you I throw up.
:lol:
ALL he said was "well there's some respectful discussion" after the entire brouhaha about respectful discussion. :confused:
Ugh...you're maddening, my friend. I like you and your style a LOT...but you're maddening. ;)
I will madden your vagina.
UT has bitched at me -- actually bitched -- exactly once.
You don't read as many posts as you write, and when you do, you don't pick up nuance.
just as a reminder of what the initial posts said.
The problem as I see it:
It is nearly impossible at this point to discuss anything political or current event related without Redux, classicman and TheMercenary squabbling and spamming that thread up with their unending partisan BULLSHIT.
that was the problem
as I saw it. It seems that other people have other problems.
I don't have any issue with people having an argument about who is mean, and who is a martyr...or any of that stuff.... that kind of thing is typically contained within a thread or two.
Picture the politics and CE threads as a house full of rooms(threads). Now picture Peter Griffith and the Chicken fighting in that house.
I'm certainly not discounting your opinion here...I just don't see that at all!
Right. We have different perceptions of the same events. Happens all the time. So I think
maybe what you see as inconsistencies is really your expectation that people will respond to things according to your perception, instead of theirs. It's not that you missed the meeting where the responses were planned.
Well, I don't mind being wrong. In this instance, I am sorry, but knowing what I've seen between those two that response was meant to be dismissive (in my opinion.) Note that I let it go until Flint had to explain what a crybaby spexx is.
Even spexx has feelings and deserves a modicum of respect, don't you think?
just as a reminder of what the initial posts said.
that was the problem as I saw it. It seems that other people have other problems.
The problem still holds true..
Griff.
Recently started a thread that devolved quickly into penis size comments,thread destruction in 1 hour tops. Right after I thought how great it was and refreshing to have a legitimate discussion at hand.
What do you mean "even spexx" ...? Are you saying he is some kind of subhuman outcast? You wrong fo dat.
cic,
yes... i should have said 'that is the problem as I see it'. I used past tense because I was reminding people about the initial post, and what I was thinking when I wrote it.
but, clearly, as you say....nothing has changed.
I am sorry, but knowing what I've seen between those two that response was meant to be dismissive (in my opinion.)
About as dismissive of a view point as the original post. Neither comment being anything to get pissed off about though...
Even spexx has feelings and deserves a modicum of respect, don't you think?
To be fair, he is one of the posters I am done with. Have been for a few years now.
What do you mean "even spexx" ...? Are you saying he is some kind of subhuman outcast? You wrong fo dat.
I'm the wrongiest wrong wronger east of the Pecos.
(apologies to Yosemite Sam. I don't know no geology, so I don't know if it should be west or east or south or north or even what the Pecos are. Is it like a mexican dish?)
About as dismissive of a view point as the original post. Neither comment being anything to get pissed off about though...
To be fair, he is one of the posters I am done with. Have been for a few years now.
And that is honest, and your right. We all have those we are done with. Well maybe not ALL of us, but a lot of us. This is normal humanness.
PUT THAT LAUNDRY AWAY. The rule should be no crybaby bullcrap.
And now you're whining about crybaby bullcrap.
stop whining about ƒlint whining
Shut up shuttin' up. (Yosemite AGAIN!)
I'm not done with any of you, yet.
We apologize for the whining in the previous post. Those responsible have been sacked.
I'm not done with any of you, yet.
We apologize for the whining in the previous post. Those responsible have been sacked.
I wish I knew how to quit you. :p:
I can't quit you...... babe.... (not crybabe, just babe)
[YOUTUBE]HFIORuvNa9I[/YOUTUBE]
Now, if this turns into eleventy pages of songs with the word 'babe' in the title...... that would be an improvement.
OK everyone - sit in a big circle and hold hands
.
.
.
.
.[YOUTUBE]vo9AH4vG2wA[/YOUTUBE]
How about this instead?
[YOUTUBE]Oeqyb7D7ZA8[/YOUTUBE]
[youtube]JjD4eWEUgMM[/youtube]
THIS
Swoon. Johnny Depp can cry all over me, all the time, any time. :o
[YOUTUBE]07NMA51D46c[/YOUTUBE]
LOL. (I'm not one of the cool kids so I can't say the H word) Wow, you guys were busy while I was gone. I make a snarky reply to Spexx's post and we get pages of "we should post like..." and "I don't like so and so" posts followed by youtube clips. That's why I can't quit the cellar.
Those video posts were an homage.
LOL. (I'm not one of the cool kids so I can't say the H word) Wow, you guys were busy while I was gone. I make a snarky reply to Spexx's post and we get pages of "we should post like..." and "I don't like so and so" posts followed by youtube clips. That's why I can't quit the cellar.
Stop laughing - Its not funny. You missed sitting in the circle as we all held hands and sang kumbaya. :rolleyes:
Not that there's anything wrong with being an homage, and you can still adopt
I'm not holding hands with any of you fools. I know what you do with them.
Not that there's anything wrong with being an homage, and you can still sdopt
That's still tied up in court but thankfully the right to adopt has been established already.
The H word is for use by all dwellars. No express written consent needed.
Oh nooooooo, I HATE that word. It sounds like someone is afraid of bunnies! :)
Who could be afraid of bunnies?
Who could be afraid of bunnies?
Anya - on Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Those video posts were an homage.
It seems that the general opposition to increased moderation suits both the miscreants in the Politics forum and the drama queens who write about them in Meta. The sad songs reflecting lack of change actually means enthusiasm for the opportunity to do it all again the next time people get bored. HAPPY ENDING!
<throws grenade into happy party>
For the record, I was all for banning and said so several times -
here and
here for example.
What about that report post button/icon... what does it do anyway. Someone mentioned it earlier, but I don't remember much discussion.
I just clicked it, but was afraid to send the report:
Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising messages, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts.
ok - so we can assume that it send a message to ... a mod or UT?
This is ONLY to be used to report [COLOR="Wheat"]spam, advertising messages, and [/COLOR]
problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts.
OK, what am I missing? There is a system already in place to solve the problem.
I think it's called the crybaby button.
I'm KIDDING. I kid!
:bolt:
However, I can't imagine UT or mods want everyone pushing the "button" every time someone is rude. Let's just duke it out like humans!
I think it's called the crybaby button.
I lol'd, and almost fell off the treadmill. Reminded me of
[YOUTUBE]uaFy0x_Uixo[/YOUTUBE]
Here Ill get All the Name callen and insults out of the way
[YOUTUBE]PSEYXWmEse8[/YOUTUBE]
I heard a great one last night:
I'd call you a cunt, but you lack depth and warmth.
I'm harder on myself than I am on others. My favorite self-insult, as I mutter when I am trying to find something when I am getting ready for work in the morning, is: You are such an unmade bed of a woman.
I love that Geico commercial. "Ya jackwagon." I lol'd the when I saw it. They really do have great ads.
Then zippy's link was astounding (I'm a huge movie buff)...I'm sending it to everyone!
I like when he calls him a crybaby and chucks the tissues at him.
Loved that Zip, but they missed this one:
You know, you're in more dire need of a blowjob than any white man in history.
-GMV.
Why did I click back for 5 pages , to get to first post today? Damifino!
Some people don't get enough oppportunity for insulting folks in the real world? :p:
If any of you were wondering (or even noticed) why i haven't been around lately...
that's basically why.
that and college and drinking and smoking and all that debauchery.
eta: that meaning, the issues both discussed and immediately evident within this thread.
Because, rather than keep it light and funny, somebody CHOSE to cry out "MOMMY, MOMMY, THE BULLY IS TEASING ME--SEE WHAT HE DID THERE?!" Sure sounds like a ƒucking crybaby to me. Was there some other way I could have read that?
Sure. How about Spexx doesn't want to start another flamewar in a politics or current events thread. Especially when the post was by someone who said:
I don't remember a time where redux or spexx were active that the shit wasn't consistantly flying in all directions.
Recently started a thread that devolved quickly into penis size comments,thread destruction in 1 hour tops.
IMO the destruction started with merc's post - did you even read that? Please critique someone else's posts and stop stalking me, mmmmmk?
To be fair, he is one of the posters I am done with. Have been for a few years now.
As I have been with you.
Spexx, you started a thread, and I opened it...how is that stalking? This is all that happened...I read the first three posts in a thread and saw (as I read it) #1: original, harmless post, #2: funny, harmless comment, #3: a comment which changed the nature of the thread, which made it be "about" the fighting instead of just letting it be a regular thread. I don't care "who" the posters were...I was commenting that, as I read the thread, I saw the subject of the fighting come up, and I didn't think it was necessary to mention it at that point. That's all. I think the thread, and the site, would have been better off without the tattle-taling. This is just one man's opinion.
You don't read as many posts as you write, and when you do, you don't pick up nuance.
There is that which I shall and should accept, and there is that which I should ignore. I ignore and let pass from me the poor ideas and hemipygian thought that my bitterest opposition frequently comes up with, as things unworthy of me. They may be satisfied with such second- and third-bests; not me. I'm after something better than that, and it shows.
I think you can stop rambling about "nuance." I perceive it well enough to know when it's worth it
and when it's worthless. A lot of the time, it's wholly worthless -- and can you tell when it's worthless? A lot of the time it doesn't appear certain of us can. These impoverished ones are the type to scream at me the loudest.
I'm not holding hands with any of you fools. I know what you do with them.
Yeah, we're wearing our keyboards down to their little putty-colored bones.
You can try to deny that you're not a reader, UG, but
[FONT="Trebuchet MS"][SIZE="6"]Bill Clinton won the Bosnian War[/SIZE][/FONT]
Spexx, you started a thread, and I opened it...how is that stalking? ...
I didn't call you a stalker.
Sorry, I misread that part.
Sorry, I misread that part.
I accept your apology
I'm sorry I called you a crybaby, but that's how I read it. If that's not what you were doing, then I was wrong.
It's ok. My mother called me a crybaby once - ONCE
It's ok. My mother called me a crybaby once - ONCE
Orlly/then what?
:)
[YOUTUBE]aQvtfHJZTUc&start=22[/YOUTUBE]
That's not the way we do things are here, Johnny. ;)
You can try to deny that you're not a reader, UG, but
[FONT="Trebuchet MS"][SIZE="6"]Bill Clinton won the Bosnian War[/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE="4"]Or it [/SIZE][SIZE="5"]was[/SIZE] [SIZE="6"]NATO's win.[/SIZE]
Never forget Bill Clinton pushed the Omnibus Crime Bill of 1994, with its horrible pro-genocide features and its general impediment to your civil rights. He said it was a no-brainer to pass it. He was right. The Democratic Party has exhibited hostility to the Constitution since Clinton's day. Perhaps it is the influence of the Shadow Party, q.v.
One of the few times he was right about something, too. His was an Administration whose appointees had dreadful trouble passing Federal background checks -- a problem Republican appointees aren't having. His Administration never escaped from under a gray cloud of scandal nor the appearance of malfeasance even when actual malfeasance was perhaps not occurring. On those occasions.
No, Mr. Clinton satisfied those people who try to live their lives devoid of values, so of course I slam Mr. Clinton.
And vote Libertarian often.
I'd like to see you come up to that standard; it's really pretty cool.
Well, well well. You saw one of them. That's nice! I made the statement in several threads, and you didn't pick up on the thread that mattered, and it took a week, but fine!
The point was, you always rant that Democrats don't try to win wars, but here is an example of one who obviously did. And it's in your living history, so you might want to use your self-righteous high intelligence to figure out where you went wrong.
Kick him in the ballz!!!1
