FYI: how news was, and is, and will be

Undertoad • May 12, 2010 3:42 pm
1960: biased reporters try to give multiple sides to a story and to be as objective as possible, out of pride in their profession

1980: biased reporters give two sides to every story -- as if all information has only two sides -- so they can avoid looking biased

2000: biased reporters tell their side of the story and include a mocking quote from the "other side" to support their biased narrative... but still claim objectivity because their viewpoint is "correct"

2010: valueless "news" is replaced by comedy hosts aka Jon Stewart, and bloggers who admit their bias openly and honestly, and report directly from it for an audience that shares it

I prefer 2010 to 1980 and 2000, but I don't know if I prefer it to 1960.
lookout123 • May 12, 2010 3:45 pm
I didn't get to see 1960 for myself but I like the sound of it. It sounds, oh I don't know, professional?
Shawnee123 • May 12, 2010 3:47 pm
Worth repeating here:
jinx • May 12, 2010 7:03 pm
Bias is one thing but it seems like the outright lying that Fox News introduced in 2000 has been fully embraced by 2010 - see CNN coverage of AZ immigration law. Sucks.
ZenGum • May 13, 2010 7:09 am
Crappy indeed ... and yet ... it only continues because quite a number of people continue to watch that crap and think it is real.
classicman • May 13, 2010 9:35 am
ZenGum;655971 wrote:
Crappy indeed ... and yet ... it only continues because quite a number of people continue to watch that crap and think it is real.


What else is there for most people? All the "news shows" are biased. Its just that most people hear what they want to hear. It reaffirms their personal opinion. :hedfone:
classicman • Jun 7, 2010 12:31 pm
[YOUTUBE]RQcQdWBqt14&feature[/YOUTUBE]
She has since apologized for her opinion.
After making controversial remarks about Israel, longtime White House correspondent Helen Thomas has been dropped by her speaking agency and is coming under fire from her colleagues, former White House officials and others.

In a May 27 exchange with Rabbi David Nesenoff, which was captured on video and posted, Thomas said Israelis should "get the hell out of Palestine" and "go home" to Germany and Poland.

Diane Nine, president of the speaking agency Nine Speakers, said in a statement it would drop Thomas, who has earned the nickname "Dean of the White House Press Corps," as she has covered the White House since 1960.

Journalist Craig Crawford, who co-authored a book with Thomas, also announced he will no longer be working with Thomas on any book projects.

Former Bush Press Secretary Ari Fleischer said Friday that Hearst news service, for which Thomas serves as a columnist, should fire her, the Huffington Post reported.

"She should lose her job over this," Fleischer said. "As someone who is Jewish, and as someone who worked with her and used to like her, I find this appalling."

Additionally, former Clinton White House counsel Lanny Davis released a statement on Sunday calling Thomas an "anti-Semitic bigot."

On Friday, Thomas issued an apology for her comments on her website.

"I deeply regret my comments I made last week regarding the Israelis and the Palestinians," Thomas said. "They do not reflect my heart-felt belief that peace will come to the Middle East only when all parties recognize the need for mutual respect and tolerance. May that day come soon."

Anti-Defamation League national director Abraham H. Foxman said in a statement that Thomas' apology did not go far enough.

"Her suggestion that Israelis should go back to Poland and Germany is bigoted and shows a profound ignorance of history," he said. "We believe Thomas needs to make a more forceful and sincere apology for the pain her remarks have caused."

In addition, in light of her comments, Walt Whitman High School in Bethesda, Maryland has canceled Thomas' appearance as commencement speaker, the Associated Press reports. Principal Alan Goodwin reportedly wrote in the e-mail to students and parents that the school would find a new speaker for the June 14 graduation ceremony.

"Graduation celebrations are not the venue for divisiveness," he wrote.

Her recent comments, however, are putting new scrutiny on her views and her role in the White House press corps, where she has been highly revered.

Time columnist Joe Klein writes that Thomas should be stripped of her privileged front row seat in the White House press room.

White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said today that Thomas' comments were "offensive and reprehensible."

"She should and has apologized," he said. "Obviously, those remarks do not reflect the opinion, I assume, of most of the people in here and certainly not of the administration."

Link
Link
Shawnee123 • Jun 7, 2010 12:44 pm
She should've just told the Mexicans to go home. She would probably be applauded. :cool:

Racism, so subjective, who would've figured?
classicman • Jun 7, 2010 12:46 pm
Troll.
Update...
Veteran White House reporter Helen Thomas retires following controversial remarks
Veteran reporter Helen Thomas, who has covered the White House since the John F. Kennedy administration, is retiring immediately following her controversial statements about Israel, Hearst Newspapers reports.

Thomas, 89. became a columnist for Hearst newspapers after leaving UPI, where she worked for decades.

Guess that update doesn't leave much room for any discussion.
TheDaVinciChode • Jun 7, 2010 12:48 pm
Why is this person coming under such fire... for telling a group of people to leave the land that they've forcefully occupied? To return back "home?" What is so wrong about that?

Nothing.

Fucking Jewish media. It disgusts me.
Shawnee123 • Jun 7, 2010 12:50 pm
Troll this you crybaby. I'm allowed to comment...it's not YOUR thread.


I'm telling brucie and utie and wolfie and sundie and briie and tullie and chodie...

:lol2:
Shawnee123 • Jun 7, 2010 12:52 pm
classicman;661275 wrote:
[SIZE="7"][COLOR="Purple"]Troll.[/COLOR][/SIZE]
Update...
Veteran White House reporter Helen Thomas retires following controversial remarks

Guess that update doesn't leave much room for any discussion.


Troll this you crybaby. I'm allowed to comment...it's not YOUR thread.

I'm telling brucie and utie and wolfie and sundie and briie and tullie and chodie...

:lol2:
classicman • Jun 7, 2010 12:52 pm
I wasn't referring to you.
Shawnee123 • Jun 7, 2010 12:55 pm
No posts since 5/13. You post something today. I respond. You post again with the word "troll."

Who exactly were you referring to?
TheDaVinciChode • Jun 7, 2010 12:58 pm
classicman;661275 wrote:
Troll.
Update...
Veteran White House reporter Helen Thomas retires following controversial remarks

Guess that update doesn't leave much room for any discussion.


I think that's such bollocks.

What she said... was true. Every damn word.

What she said, is no different than England telling Germany to stop invading other countries, to stop killing innocent people. That's EXACTLY what the damn Israeli cunts are doing... invading another country, killing innocent people... They're no better than the Nazi Party, and they disgust me.

What really pisses me off, is that America is happy to abide... they train, they support (financially, politically, and with weaponry.) Until American leaders stops sucking circumcised cock, until the WHOLE God-damn Western world gets that kosher meat out of their collective mouths, these bastards will continue to do whatever they please.

The holocaust was a VERY long time ago... and we did everything we could (well, England did, other countries kinda slacked, until towards the end, when all "they" really wanted to do, was test their new, big toy, and fuck with the idiotic Japs who, for some reason, decided to piss on them... you know who I'm talking about,) to stop it from happening... Why the fuck should we feel guilty, and through that guilt, allow them to get away with genocide, when we weren't responsible for the harm they suffered, when we tried (and succeeded, eventually) to stop it?

It's bollocks. Besides all that - It was a VERY long time ago. Get the fuck over it. That's like people of a darker complexion, still thinking they're "owed" something, for slavery. Bollocks. It was a long time ago, we've all moved on, and NO ONE alive was responsible for it...

People... Fuck. :mad2:
glatt • Jun 7, 2010 12:58 pm
I think Helen maybe held on to her job a little too long. Hadn't she ever heard of "leave them wanting more?" She should have taken a page from Walter Cronkite. Everyone was sad when he left. But she's leaving in disgrace.

Now if we can only get rid of Andy Rooney.
Shawnee123 • Jun 7, 2010 1:00 pm
(knocks on forehead): NO ONE has posted since May 13th. You post something relevent. I comment. You post back "troll." You WERE talking to me.

Caught in another lie. You're pathetic as you try to dance around yourself, as if I care if you think I'm a troll. Yawn.
classicman • Jun 7, 2010 1:02 pm
Shaw - Go fuck yourself. You and I both agreed NOT to respond to each other. Care to try again?
classicman • Jun 7, 2010 1:04 pm
TheDaVinciChode;661284 wrote:
It was a VERY long time ago. Get the fuck over it. That's like people of a darker complexion, still thinking they're "owed" something, for slavery. Bollocks. It was a long time ago, we've all moved on, and NO ONE alive was responsible for it...


I agree with you there!

glatt;661285 wrote:
I think Helen maybe held on to her job a little too long. Hadn't she ever heard of "leave them wanting more?" She should have taken a page from Walter Cronkite. Everyone was sad when he left. But she's leaving in disgrace.

Now if we can only get rid of Andy Rooney.


That would be the trifecta!
glatt • Jun 7, 2010 1:04 pm
TheDaVinciChode;661284 wrote:
It was a long time ago, we've all moved on, and NO ONE alive was responsible for it...


Obviously not everyone has moved on. And there are still a few people alive who are responsible for it. You've never heard of John Demjanjuk?
Shawnee123 • Jun 7, 2010 1:07 pm
classicman;661289 wrote:
Shaw - Go fuck yourself. You and I both agreed NOT to respond to each other. Care to try again?


No, dear, you started it by calling me a name. Care to try to cover your tracks again? You delete the other post because it wasn't worth the air you breathe to tell me to fuck off, then you post again to tell me to fuck off.

I'm surprised you didn't delete your outright lie post. Again, who WERE you talking to?

You fuck off you namby-pamby pantywaist. :p:
TheDaVinciChode • Jun 7, 2010 1:12 pm
glatt;661292 wrote:
Obviously not everyone has moved on. And there are still a few people alive who are responsible for it. You've never heard of John Demjanjuk?


One man, or a few men...

Why must the whole Western world bend over for these people, when the vast majority of the people within, helped secure this pitiful* people's future? We didn't need to, we didn't have to, but we did... we've already done more than enough. We should NOT'VE given them Arab land, and we should NOT be helping, encouraging, or turning a blind eye to, them to take over more Arab land.

Did you know that, since the end of WWII, since we gave them Arab land (what right did we have?) that they've been continually expanding "their" territory? Fighting wars, occupying more Arab land... all sanctioned by "the powers that be," despite the fact that, anywhere else in the world, any other people in the world, we'd deplore their actions.

Disgusting, isn't it?

They're owed NOTHING. In fact, they owe the Western world EVERYTHING. We saved their pitiful* existence. We sent OUR people to die, to save them. Our fathers, our sons, our uncles, our cousins, or nephews... all to protect people they didn't even know, for no other reason than decency... something they've NEVER shown, in return.

They're STILL not thankful. Disgusting, isn't it?

Still, whatever... That was a long time ago, and fine, forget being thanked, let's just move on... but when will they move on?

(* I say "pitiful," because they're thankless cunts who feel like they're owed something... who constantly commit war crimes, crimes against humanity, whilst crying that it's fair, because it happened to them. They're no better than the Nazi Party. No better at all.)
glatt • Jun 7, 2010 1:35 pm
OK. So you hate the Jews, and you hate Israel. How do you feel about Hamas, who took over control of the Gaza strip by force and has sworn to wipe Israel from the map?
Undertoad • Jun 7, 2010 1:41 pm
since the end of WWII, since we gave them Arab land (what right did we have?)


You're not exactly a history student, are you?
TheDaVinciChode • Jun 7, 2010 1:44 pm
glatt;661305 wrote:
OK. So you hate the Jews, and you hate Israel. How do you feel about Hamas, who took over control of the Gaza strip by force and has sworn to wipe Israel from the map?


I completely disagree with any religious group, any religious agenda, and any form of genocide.

This is why religion and Government should NEVER mix. (I'm looking at you, too, America!)

As soon as a country is governed by religious fanatics, or overtly religious people, who allow their blind faith to obscure the reality of the world... that country becomes a corrupt cesspit of despair, and, for lack of a better word, sin... completely devoid of normality, logic, and actual morality.

Consider this - Had Israel not invaded Arab land, had they never been "given" Arab land... what beef would those in Palestine have, with them, so far from their home? I'm sure they'd still have a religious beef, but, beyond that...? Correct, sir... There wouldn't be one.

Now, take a look at the casualties, the deaths, an the international backing... tell me - who's got it worse?

... Indeed.

Undertoad;661306 wrote:
You're not exactly a history student, are you?


I know more than you'd assume, good sir.

--

Oh, and I'd like to point out: I don't "hate" Jewish people, or people from Israel. I hate their "general" attitude.

As always, there are exceptions.

(I don't "hate" anyone, or anything... I just have a strong dislike for religion, and religious agendas.)
Undertoad • Jun 7, 2010 2:02 pm
You're not exactly a history student. So here it is.

The Brits ruled Palestine after WW1, but even during the war were puzzled exactly what to do with it, since it was basically filled with two warring factions. (You know which two.)

In general, even before WW2 -- even while the Brits were conquering the land in WW1 -- it was thought that there should be a Jewish state. But the Brits were not interested in enforcing their own decision, had been rapidly abandoning empire anyway, and post-WW2 had their own business to deal with. So they graciously agreed with the UN that the UN should handle it, in the name of the whole world.

So during 1947 the UN went off and had panels and whatnot, and came to the conclusion that the best way to manage this would be a two-state solution with UN jurisdiction over the shared Jerusalem.

The entire world voted on it, and basically the entire world agreed, except for the Islamic countries. And so the Israeli state was created, but the Arabs were furious with the arrangement, refused to set up a state, and went to war with the new Israel on day one.

This then became the war for Israel's independence, and we call it that because they won. They expanded to take as much land as was thought to be needed to protect the new state, as it was thought the 1947 borders were indefensible. And the area that would today be a Palestinian state was then occupied (!!!!!) by Jordan (east bank et al) and Egypt (gaza).

what right did we have?


Well this is how land disputes work. The UN has a go at it, they fail, and then there's a war. The winner of the war gets the spoils.
TheDaVinciChode • Jun 7, 2010 2:13 pm
Undertoad;661314 wrote:
You're not exactly a history student. So here it is.

The Brits ruled Palestine after WW1, but even during the war were puzzled exactly what to do with it, since it was basically filled with two warring factions. (You know which two.)

In general, even before WW2 -- even while the Brits were conquering the land in WW1 -- it was thought that there should be a Jewish state. But the Brits were not interested in enforcing their own decision, had been rapidly abandoning empire anyway, and post-WW2 had their own business to deal with. So they graciously agreed with the UN that the UN should handle it, in the name of the whole world.

So during 1947 the UN went off and had panels and whatnot, and came to the conclusion that the best way to manage this would be a two-state solution with UN jurisdiction over the shared Jerusalem.

The entire world voted on it, and basically the entire world agreed, except for the Islamic countries. And so the Israeli state was created, but the Arabs were furious with the arrangement, refused to set up a state, and went to war with the new Israel on day one.

This then became the war for Israel's independence, and we call it that because they won. They expanded to take as much land as was thought to be needed to protect the new state, as it was thought the 1947 borders were indefensible. And the area that would today be a Palestinian state was then occupied (!!!!!) by Jordan (east bank et al) and Egypt (gaza).



Well this is how land disputes work. The UN has a go at it, they fail, and then there's a war. The winner of the war gets the spoils.


This, I knew, and none of it takes away from my sentiment, or comment.

You're neglecting to mention the constant acts of violence, enacted by the state of Israel, often under the guise of something else, something unrelated, and often backed by powers beyond the Israeli-Arab states.

We still had no right to divide up that land, we had no right to intervene, at all.

We also had no need to do so... it was only through guilt, that the world felt we should help the Jewish people.

Misguided, unjust guilt. :/
Undertoad • Jun 7, 2010 2:34 pm
Guilt? The world anticipated a large Jewish emigration and the one thing they could agree on was that they'd rather it not be to their country. Hey, they have a place to go... and there it is.

You're neglecting to mention the constant acts of violence, enacted by the state of Israel, often under the guise of something else, something unrelated, and often backed by powers beyond the Israeli-Arab states.


At what point in history?
TheDaVinciChode • Jun 7, 2010 3:23 pm
Undertoad;661324 wrote:
Guilt? The world anticipated a large Jewish emigration and the one thing they could agree on was that they'd rather it not be to their country. Hey, they have a place to go... and there it is.



At what point in history?


Six-Day War of June 5–10, 1967.
Lebanon War of 1982.
Sabra and Shátila massacre between 16th and 18th of September 1982.

To name a very select few...

Many others are debatable, whether Arabs, or Jews, started the confrontation... It's a very sordid mess, with neither party being completely without blame... It's give-and-take, that's for sure... but the people (Military/Government, as well as a large portion of the population) of Israel try to claim absolute innocence... and the world lets them. That disturbs me, and annoys the crap out of me.

Currently, I'd side with the people of Palestine, simply because it's clear to any objective observer, that Israel is going over-the-top, showing little-to-no restraint, and, well... acting no better than the Nazi Party they still cry about. They won't stop, either, until certain countries stop backing them, and leave them to suffer the consequences of their actions.

It's a religious sect, within Palestine, that's causing most of the trouble against Israel... It's the Military, Government, and People of Israel, causing all of the trouble, against Palestine.

Who's more to blame? The entire country, attacking the country based on a (comparatively) small group of religious extremists (why does that sound familiar?) or the civilians having to suffer because said group of extremists?

Punish the few, not the many... Apparently, the Israeli people would rather punish the many, rather than the few. :eyebrow:
Undertoad • Jun 7, 2010 3:48 pm
When you say
enacted by the state of Israel, often under the guise of something else, something unrelated, and often backed by powers beyond the Israeli-Arab states


What in particular is it about the Six Day War that meets your description? Especially since you listed it first.
Shawnee123 • Jun 7, 2010 4:09 pm
I'm telling Ziva, and she'll kick all y'alls asses.
TheDaVinciChode • Jun 7, 2010 4:48 pm
Undertoad;661347 wrote:
When you say

What in particular is it about the Six Day War that meets your description? Especially since you listed it first.


The so-called pre-emptive strike, for starters.

History is written by the winners... it's always one-sided. :neutral:

(By the way - I don't need to be a "History Student" to be a student of history.)
Undertoad • Jun 7, 2010 5:05 pm
You would deny that Arab countries had amassed 225,000 troops on Israel's border at the time of this so-called pre-emptive strike.
TheDaVinciChode • Jun 7, 2010 5:12 pm
Undertoad;661369 wrote:
You would deny that Arab countries had amassed 225,000 troops on Israel's border at the time of this so-called pre-emptive strike.


I wouldn't deny anything.

Would you deny that pre-emptive strikes only ever serve to worsen (or possibly ignite what would've otherwise been posturing) a situation? Without the pre-emptive strike, diplomatic missions may've had some measure of success in de-escalating the situation.

This is what they do, though... They do the bad deed, then try to convince us that the deed was merely one of defence.

I'm not blind, to history, nor to fact. I don't deny wrong-doings, on either side. I am impartial.
Undertoad • Jun 7, 2010 6:19 pm
225,000 troops is "posturing"? What a joke. 25,000 is posturing. Putting a tenth of a countries troops on a border, that's posturing. Putting them all on, that's war.

And Israel's war of independence was in defense of a pre-emptive strike. And when Egypt and Syria surprise-attacked six years later, this does not similarly de-legitimize their regimes to you, Sir Impartial?
TheDaVinciChode • Jun 7, 2010 6:27 pm
Undertoad;661390 wrote:
225,000 troops is "posturing". I see.

But Israel's war of independence was in defense of a pre-emptive strike. And when Egypt and Syria surprise-attacked six years later, this does not similarly de-legitimize their regimes to you, Sir Impartial?


Should we follow the examples of history, or learn from them?

If we follow them, we're doomed to make the same mistakes.

Let's see how good you are with recent history, good sir: When did I defend the poor actions of the Arab nations? Most notably, the warring actions, or the derogatory comments by certain Arab leaders?

I've been discussing Israel, and the Jewish guilt agenda, that has, so far, encouraged Western nations to either turn a blind eye, or even offer support, to what would otherwise be deemed a deplorable, terrible act of aggression, of war.

I suggest, good sir, that you read up on what they're actually doing, over there. From an un-biased source, of course. Read both sides of the story, and tell me, then, if you believe that the people of Israel are in the right.

Again, we're talking about a group of religious radicals, not the entire population, on one side... and an entire nation, on the other... One nation, warring another nation, because of a sect of religious radicals... thinking they're above law, above order, because they can hide behind the so-called holocaust guilt. Bollocks, sir, bollocks.
Undertoad • Jun 7, 2010 6:40 pm
I've read it continuously for the last 8 years, from all sources.

Would I deny that pre-emptive strikes only ever serve to worsen a situation? The question is not helpful. We see it in the thread. As it is in every case in the conflict, people figure out what event *they* feel was the actual pre-emptive strike. 1967, that was pre-emptive because Israel fighters were the first to take off. 1948, well that wasn't pre-emptive, because the pre-emptive act was the UN resolution.

Pretty soon the game is on and every action is *immediately* rolled back to an ideological defensive ground.

because they can hide behind the so-called holocaust guilt


Simply bullshit, has nothing to do with it if it ever really did.
TheDaVinciChode • Jun 7, 2010 6:49 pm
The first to strike, regardless of posturing, is the aggressor in a war, as they were the first to decide that any attempts at diplomacy would fail, and that military action would be the best/only course of action.

Pre-emptive strikes may cause wars, may end wars before they start... but they're never the right choice, and they will always mark the side that takes it upon themselves to be the one to use a pre-emptive strike, as the aggressor.

Bullshit, or not, it's true. They hide behind the holocaust guilt, to get their way with the Western Governments, and the media.

People need to jump ship, and realise the atrocities being performed, right in front of their eyes... before it's too late, and they wipe them all out.
Undertoad • Jun 7, 2010 7:48 pm
If receiving the first blow is to lose the war, and there is sufficient evidence that the first blow is about to come, you too would strike first. We ignore here the buildup to the war which made it transparently inevitable.

But again, it's part of the game. When side A is attacked, side B was warmongering! When side A is attacking, side B was acting provocatively!

Bullshit, or not, it's true. They hide behind the holocaust guilt, to get their way with the Western Governments, and the media.


How? How exactly would that happen? Would they bring a swastika to diplomatic meetings and request a bowing of the heads before any negotiations?

I notice that the countries that should have the most guilt are lukewarm to Israel, while Israel's biggest supporter has no guilt, except for entering the european theatre a tad late.

I'd also notice that in the last ten years of watching carefully, I have not heard the Holocaust mentioned in any mideast conflict news coverage, except to point out which of the actors are Holocaust deniers. I don't think this is mentioned to provoke guilt, as much as it is to point out which of the leaders are uneducated and dangerous.

I guess I'd also point to your words
Fucking Jewish media
to say that you've given here two opposing explanations here, since the Jewish media would not feel guilt over the event.
TheDaVinciChode • Jun 7, 2010 7:58 pm
Undertoad;661415 wrote:
If receiving the first blow is to lose the war, and there is sufficient evidence that the first blow is about to come, you too would strike first. We ignore here the buildup to the war which made it transparently inevitable.

But again, it's part of the game. When side A is attacked, side B was warmongering! When side A is attacking, side B was acting provocatively!



How? How exactly would that happen? Would they bring a swastika to diplomatic meetings and request a bowing of the heads before any negotiations?

I notice that the countries that should have the most guilt are lukewarm to Israel, while Israel's biggest supporter has no guilt, except for entering the european theatre a tad late.

I'd also notice that in the last ten years of watching carefully, I have not heard the Holocaust mentioned in any mideast conflict news coverage, except to point out which of the actors are Holocaust deniers. I don't think this is mentioned to provoke guilt, as much as it is to point out which of the leaders are uneducated and dangerous.

I guess I'd also point to your words to say that you've given here two opposing explanations here, since the Jewish media would not feel guilt over the event.


It's implied guilt. They play on the fact that Western Governments feel they should've done more to stop it... it's not entirely their fault, either... no, our Governments have been, and continue to, act way out of sorts, when it comes to dealing with Jewish people, since the holocaust.

The Jewish Media = Jewish Controlled Media = Used to propagate Jewish ideals/ideas, whilst making us think they're the good guys. You'll find this, a lot, in America, more so than anywhere else, other than, of course, Israel.

You're right - We have nothing to feel guilty about. Not one thing. As I have already stated; we already did more than we should've, more than anyone could've expected from us, simply by saying "no," and then acting against the Nazi aggressors... but we still feel the guilt, which has never been fully allowed to subside, largely because we're countries of large hearts.

(It's the old "if we'd come sooner, we could've stopped more" guilt trip... A decent person would say "you did more than enough," and never bring it up, ever again... a cowardly, wicked person, would ensure that it's never quite left your mind, in one way or another, so you'll always feel guilty, and thus, become their bitch, through guilt, allowing them to walk all over you, as well as anyone else they choose.)
Undertoad • Jun 7, 2010 8:55 pm
It's implied guilt. They play on the fact


Who is They and how do they Play it?
TheDaVinciChode • Jun 7, 2010 9:13 pm
Undertoad;661424 wrote:
Who is They and how do they Play it?


They use their history, and the knowledge that we feel guilt over it, to their advantage, safe in the knowledge that our guilt will keep us from seeing the true nature of their evil actions.

It's sneaky, is under-handed, it's very subtle, and it's very true.
Undertoad • Jun 7, 2010 9:27 pm
"But you see, I'm right, because of... because of this sneaky subtle thing that only I can detect!"

[COLOR="Blue"][citation needed][/COLOR]
TheDaVinciChode • Jun 7, 2010 9:50 pm
Undertoad;661440 wrote:
"But you see, I'm right, because of... because of this sneaky subtle thing that only I can detect!"

[COLOR="Blue"][citation needed][/COLOR]


Do people still feel guilty, about the holocaust?

Do said people still give the people of Israel more leeway, than they'd (normally) give any other country?

1 + 1 = 2.
TheMercenary • Jun 7, 2010 10:09 pm
TheDaVinciChode;661455 wrote:
Do people still feel guilty, about the holocaust?
No, why should anyone in this day and age feel guilty? It would be like asking me to feel guilty about slavery that happened over 100 years ago in the US and had abolutely nothing to do with me or my ancestors.

Do said people still give the people of Israel more leeway, than they'd (normally) give any other country?
In the US, yes, most likely due to marketing of the Jewish cause and the strenght of the Jewish Lobby in the US. No because they deserve more attention.
Undertoad • Jun 7, 2010 10:11 pm
[COLOR="Blue"][citation still needed][/COLOR]
TheDaVinciChode • Jun 7, 2010 10:15 pm
TheMercenary;661467 wrote:
No, why should anyone in this day and age feel guilty? It would be like asking me to feel guilty about slavery that happened over 100 years ago in the US and had abolutely nothing to do with me or my ancestors.

In the US, yes, most likely due to marketing of the Jewish cause and the strenght of the Jewish Lobby in the US. No because they deserve more attention.


You're right, sir. We shouldn't feel guilty, but a lot of people still do.

Just like a lot of people still do, and many are still EXPECTED to feel guilty about slavery. See this article, for a small snippet of information, about the supposed reparations we're still meant to be making, for something that happened so long ago.

And, yeah, they don't deserve more attention, but they get it, due to the reasons I've previously stated.
TheMercenary • Jun 7, 2010 10:22 pm
You know what, fuck some guilt trip.

I owe no one anything because of any historical wrong they think was put upon their ancestors.

Move along assholes get a life.

You will not get a dime from me on some pity card. I don't give a damm what your color or religion is.

What will happen in 20 or 30 years when the roles are reversed, should my kids expect payment because they are in a minority? I think not...
TheDaVinciChode • Jun 7, 2010 10:22 pm
Undertoad;661468 wrote:
[COLOR="Blue"][citation still needed][/COLOR]


Maybe not factual citation, but someone else's shared opinion of holocaust guilt impacting our reactions to Israel.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/holocaust-guilt-lets-israel-go-unchallenged-14131215.html

Semi-citation... and a good read.

[SNIPPET]
The simple fact is that Israel has the most powerful psychological influence to count on — the world's collective guilt over the Holocaust. This means that although the world may sporadically slap Israel's wrists, no one dare go too far, perhaps out of fear of being accused of anti-Semitism or in any way attacking a people who have historically suffered so much.

[/SNIPPET]
Undertoad • Jun 7, 2010 10:32 pm
Alrighty then, that's an okay cite. Opinion, but I agree it's useful.

Where are we? How is it the world going easy on IL actions means the state of IL is illegitimate and should be dismantled.
TheDaVinciChode • Jun 7, 2010 11:32 pm
Undertoad;661477 wrote:
Alrighty then, that's an okay cite. Opinion, but I agree it's useful.

Where are we? How is it the world going easy on IL actions means the state of IL is illegitimate and should be dismantled.


The expansion is illegitimate, and their current actions are border-line war crimes, in come aspects.

(Same goes for some Palestinian actions, so don't think I'm only seeing one side of the atrocities being committed.)

Beyond that, they had no honest claim to that land. They didn't take it through means of a declaration of war, followed through with enough military might to take the land... They were handed it, on a silver platter, due to our guilt over the holocaust. We felt bad, felt they needed a place to settle, shoved our oar in where it didn't belong, and gave them Israel.

It's not an illegitimate land, per se, but an illegitimate claim to the land...

I have nothing (fairly) against military expansion of land... it's part of how the world is run. However, there are rules to war, and rules for expansion of territory. Both require admittance of the fact. Israel does not admit to this. Israel constantly claims to be the "poor underdog" that's "defending the home of the Jews," and has "done nothing wrong, nor does anything wrong." This is my main grievance... They hide behind this veil of guilt, knowing we'll not cut through it. At least if they admitted to their hidden agenda (the constant growth of the Israeli home state,) and didn't try to win sympathy, whilst performing gross acts of terror/war/indecency, they'd not be backed by some of the world's most powerful countries.

As it stands, however, they continue to deny their true purpose, they continue to claim innocence, and we continue to ignore, to turn a blind eye, to their blatant disregard of war protocol, of human rights, and of over-the-top collateral damage.

Even killing an American peace protester wasn't enough to get America to see the atrocities being committed... or, most recently, invading that boat, in INTERNATIONAL waters, claiming munitions, arms, etc... when all it was carrying, was aid, and peace protesters.

It's disgraceful, distasteful, and, the U.N needs to start seeing things for how they truly are.

(Normally, I'm against outside interference in countries that aren't our own, but that is why I suggest the U.N itself takes action, being that Israel is a member state of the U.N, and thus, should abide by certain rules/regulations, facing penalty, should it fail to. As for actual interference, direct from our countries... Well, that started this, and many other messes, so we should stay well clear; not fighting against them, and most certainly not supporting them. Fair media coverage, however, so we can understand what is truly going on, without false information, or any form of agenda taking away truth from it, should certainly happen, if for no other reason, than that we can learn from the mistakes of others, and keep a fair record of history.)
Undertoad • Jun 8, 2010 12:16 am
We felt bad, felt they needed a place to settle, shoved our oar in where it didn't belong, and gave them Israel.


This is where we came in. And by the way, if somebody had [strike]given it to them[/strike] officially partitioned the land (FTFY) in 1937, as was considered --

ah, but I'm not allowed to use that argument, because it will make you feel guilty.

At least if they admitted to their hidden agenda (the constant growth of the Israeli home state,)


You didn't notice that, typically on promise of peace, IL has given back conquered territory larger in size than its current territory.

They gave back the entire Sinai peninsula. (Twice!) They gave back the Golan Heights. They left Lebanon. Now they've left Gaza.

They took those lands after being attacked from those lands. They gave it back -- often on the basis of world opinion.

That really fucks your narrative in multiple ways. Can you explain, or does your organization just need to print fresh pamphlets?
spudcon • Jun 8, 2010 12:38 am
UT, you are correct. It's obvious that the Chode hasn't been alive long enough to know about history, or is illiterate by his bigotry. There isn't more than a few fragments of truth in his entire rant against the Jews.
TheDaVinciChode • Jun 8, 2010 12:44 am
Undertoad;661496 wrote:
This is where we came in. And by the way, if somebody had [strike]given it to them[/strike] officially partitioned the land (FTFY) in 1937 -- as was considered --

ah, but I'm not allowed to use that argument, because it will make you feel guilty.



You didn't notice that, typically on promise of peace, IL has given back conquered territory larger than its current territory.

They gave back the entire Sinai peninsula. They gave back the Golan Heights. They left Lebanon. Now they've left Gaza.

They took those lands after being attacked from those lands. They gave it back -- often on the basis of world opinion.

That really fucks your narrative nine ways. Can you explain?


I was aware of the The Peel Commission, and, had the recommendation for partition not been rejected by the Zionist Jews, Palestinian Arabs, as well as, of course, the British Government (due to political changes at the time,) perhaps not so many, if any Jews, would've died, during WWII. (No more so than any other religious group. I may go as far as to say, that the holocaust would never've taken off... which not only would've drastically changed the history of the Jewish people, but may've drastically impacted/altered the war.)

However, take note that it was not only the Arabs, or the British, that caused the recommendation to fall into rejection, rather, the Zionist Jews, too.

"that the partition plan proposed by the Peel Commission is not to be accepted, [but wished] to carry on negotiations in order to clarify the exact substance of the British government's proposal for the foundation of a Jewish state in Palestine".


They wanted more.

Not only that, but the partition would've seen the relocation of some 200,000+ Arabs... and less than 2,000 Jews. Yet, they wanted more? Seems fair.

The reason the Woodhead Commission seemingly absolved Britain of any responsibility involved with Palestine, was due to the growing threat of Germany, and global conflict... The two peoples couldn't come to an agreement, the Jews wanted more, and the Arabs feared the Jews invading their territory, that was no fault of ours.

It's been a constant topic, since the founding of Israel, that the Jewish people are unhappy with the amount of land given to them. They've always tried to take more, whenever they have been able... Many hundreds of thousands of Palestinian civilians being forced from their land, turned into refugees due to Israeli expansion.

They give back land, when under pressure from the outside... Yes? Does that make them some kind of magnanimous people? They only give back what they took, when (somewhat) forced to do so, and that makes them... good people? No, sir, it does not. It's a common tactic of those who want to save face, within the world's watchful eye. They give back a little, and seem like glorious people... and we yet again ignore the atrocities committed.

Their land has successively grown, since the original partition (and even more, since the original recommendation for partition.) They lose pieces, here and there, through, as you say, international pressure... but their current geographical size far exceeds what was originally intended for them.

Care to explain?

(I apologise, but, I used to have several links, detailing this expansion, but I can't seem to locate them. I'm sure a man of your resources, and knowledge, must have some vague idea as to what I am referring to, though?)

spudcon;661506 wrote:
UT, you are correct. It's obvious that the Chode hasn't been alive long enough to know about history, or is illiterate by his bigotry. There isn't more than a few fragments of truth in his entire rant against the Jews.


To quote something I said, earlier - I need not be a history student, to be a student of history.

Age is not a factor, when it comes to knowledge, interpretation of knowledge, or opinion.

As for your comment, suggesting I am bigoted in my views of Jewish people... you're quite wrong. I am disgruntled by the general defiance that Israel has shown to general war practice. I am disgusted by the holocaust guilt that causes us to turn a blind-eye to the atrocities committed. I am against the nation's comments, the nation's war, and the way the nation has treated the people of Palestine... I am not against the individual.

It is an opinion, both based on fact, and interpretation of fact. Everybody is welcome to one, and no one has the right to state that somebody is bigoted, for their opinion, without actual evidence of bigotry. You're welcome to your opinion that I am a bigot, but you're simply making a fool of yourself, through your choice of words.

Disgruntled, yes. Bigot, no. Perhaps you should check the actual definition of "bigotry," before you attempt to call somebody, especially me, a "bigot."

Thank you.
Undertoad • Jun 8, 2010 2:12 am
TheDaVinciChode;661509 wrote:
However, take note that it was not only the Arabs, or the British, that caused the recommendation to fall into rejection, rather, the Zionist Jews, too.

They wanted more.


Wheee the blame game appears! The Joos secretly caused the partition not to happen earlier! I did not see that one coming, but it's super-creative. Bonus points to the pamphlet guys on that one.

But your position is that the amount of land should have been zero, as there should never have been a partition, right?

Their land has successively grown, since the original partition (and even more, since the original recommendation for partition.) They lose pieces, here and there, through, as you say, international pressure... but their current geographical size far exceeds what was originally intended for them.

Care to explain?


Yes, somebody developed a propagandistic narrative on history and you bought into it when you visited their web site.

Why is Israel larger today than when it was partitioned? Because various neighbors keep invading it, and Israel keeps occupying the area it finds is strategically necessary for defense.

You don't believe this why? You would do the same. It's sensible.

Why is Israel far larger today than when it was partitioned? Because half of that is the southern desert area which nobody gives a shit about. But it sure does make it interesting on those web sites, when the area of Israel grows and grows!

I said that Israel has given up more land than the size of Israel. You have characterized this as "pieces here and there." Really? The amount of land Israel has won at wartime and given back is approximately 26000 sq. miles. Israel is approximately 8000 sq. miles.
TheDaVinciChode • Jun 8, 2010 12:06 pm
Undertoad;661518 wrote:
Wheee the blame game appears! The Joos secretly caused the partition not to happen earlier! I did not see that one coming, but it's super-creative. Bonus points to the pamphlet guys on that one.

But your position is that the amount of land should have been zero, as there should never have been a partition, right?



Yes, somebody developed a propagandistic narrative on history and you bought into it when you visited their web site.

Why is Israel larger today than when it was partitioned? Because various neighbors keep invading it, and Israel keeps occupying the area it finds is strategically necessary for defense.

You don't believe this why? You would do the same. It's sensible.

Why is Israel far larger today than when it was partitioned? Because half of that is the southern desert area which nobody gives a shit about. But it sure does make it interesting on those web sites, when the area of Israel grows and grows!

I said that Israel has given up more land than the size of Israel. You have characterized this as "pieces here and there." Really? The amount of land Israel has won at wartime and given back is approximately 26000 sq. miles. Israel is approximately 8000 sq. miles.


The blame game would hold one party more accountable than the others. It was the constant bickering between both the Arabs, AND the Jews, that caused the original recommendation to be rejected.

Any good strategist would tell you, to use whatever you can, to your advantage, to meet your ideal solution. Now, the holocaust was a terrible thing, but, through that, they were able to broker a better deal, for more land, when the partition solution was re-envisioned. I suppose, in essence, this was the first time holocaust guilt impacted how the world dealt with the Jews, with the founding of a larger Israel than was originally recommended... Funny, how we argued less over the size, and they, too, argued less over the size, during/after the holocaust, eh?

Likewise, any good strategist would tell you to jump at opportunity - Grabbing Arab land in the name of "strategic importance to defence." It's important that I take the land of my neighbours, to defend myself against burglary, but to do so would nor just be morally wrong, due to me putting people out on the streets, but it'd also be illegal... on a larger scale, it'd be considered a war crime, displacing so many civilians, from land that was not my own, for a flimsy, certainly not water-tight reason, that only serves to my own benefit.

The amount of land GIVEN should've been zero. We should've let the Arabs and the Jews fight over the land, if that's where they wished to have the land. If they could muster up enough military might to topple the Arabs, even in a small area... good for them. At least it would've been earned, at least it would've been won, in accordance to war protocol. The fact that they feel so entitled to the land, that it's their God-given right to be there, is what annoys me. It is Arab land, surrounded by Arab land. It was not won, it was (for all intents and purposes) stolen. That is not how things should be, and it further weakens the so-called moral high-ground that the people of Israel try to claim, during their occupation of the Arab land, during their war with the rightful owners.

It's getting close to a million Arabs having been displaced, due to the Israeli-Arab conflict. Now, this is not through choice of their own, rather, through Israeli expansion, and bombardment... stealing what they feel is "necessary defensive land," not giving a damn what happens to the civilians that inhabit it - What's more, they then intercept every vessel sent to provide aid to these hundreds of thousands of refugees.

They're an uncaring people, fighting an unjust war, playing on the hope that we'll not touch them, and continue to turn a blind eye to their illegal actions, through our continued (false) guilt over what happened during WWII.

It's shameful.
Undertoad • Jun 8, 2010 2:21 pm
The amount of land GIVEN should've been zero. We should've let the Arabs and the Jews fight over the land, if that's where they wished to have the land. If they could muster up enough military might to topple the Arabs, even in a small area... good for them. At least it would've been earned, at least it would've been won, in accordance to war protocol.


But you don't believe that. They effectively did fight over the land in 1948. The fact that it was partitioned was just the final straw. You ignore Israel's war of independence for convenience.

And war protocol, you're freely bullshitting again. When Hamas launches rockets, admit it, you come in your shorts. There's nothing protocol about any of Israel's adversaries' war actions. You haven't mentioned their clear and obvious human rights violations any by the way neither does the guilt-ridden European press or UN members.

You know, Hamas kills more Palestinians with Hamas rockets than they do Israelis. They aren't exactly rocket scientists, and not only do some of the bombs land in Gaza, they routinely suffer "work accidents" where explosives detonate while they're working on them.

Relevant to you? Or can Hamas do whatever it likes as long as its charter is Judenrein?

It is Arab land, surrounded by Arab land. It was not won, it was (for all intents and purposes) stolen.


Not exactly a "student" of history...

The Ottomans, who were Turks and not Arabs, captured it in 1512 and held it for 4 centuries. They started the Jewish trend to emigrate there, by inviting them to do so during the Spanish Inquisition. (The Jews who did were not given any flack, due to worldwide guilt over the Inquisition.)

The land was then captured in WW1, assigned to the Brits by the mandate of the League of Nations in 1917 with the express direction that a Jewish state be established there. The mandate in fact read
league of nations, 1917 wrote:
Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people


So: not Arab land since 1512. Mandated by the rest of the world to be the Jewish state two decades before WW2. The More You Know.

It's getting close to a million Arabs having been displaced, due to the Israeli-Arab conflict. Now, this is not through choice of their own,


Now here's another bit of history you were not aware of. After the Israeli war for independence, the surrounding Arab countries persecuted their Jewish minorities harder, many of them actually kicking out their Jews directly, while others just made life hard for them.

Kicked out of the Arab countries, these Jews emigrated to Israel during the 50s and 60s. They and their descendants represent 41% of the population of Israel. That's about 3 million people.

Ironically, these Jews would not be allowed return to their "home countries"; were you aware? And they didn't come from Germany and Poland, where you and Helen Thomas say they should "return" to.

What's more, they then intercept every vessel sent to provide aid to these hundreds of thousands of refugees.


The Gazans are not refugees. They are Gazans living in their Gazan homes.

The vessels are not there to provide aid. They are there to challenge an embargo that prevents Hamas from easily rearming itself and killing more Palestinians. Every aid vessel is told to land in Israel where the boats are unloaded and the aid materials sent to Gaza after being searched for contraband.

Do you know what is happening with the aid sent on the controversial flotilla of two weeks ago? It's sitting in a warehouse in Israel, because Hamas refuses to allow it to be delivered to Gaza. That tells you all you need to know: to Hamas, the PR is more important than the AID.
Gravdigr • Jun 8, 2010 6:00 pm
It was bad news. It is bad news. It will be bad news.

It's what sells.

It sucked. It sucks. It will continue to suck.
Gravdigr • Jun 8, 2010 6:09 pm
TheMercenary;661473 wrote:
You know what, fuck some guilt trip.

I owe no one anything because of any historical wrong they think was put upon their ancestors.

Move along assholes get a life.

You will not get a dime from me on some pity card. I don't give a damm what your color or religion is.

What will happen in 20 or 30 years when the roles are reversed, should my kids expect payment because they are in a minority? I think not...


Sir, there is metric ton of correct in those statments.:notworthy

I don't care if my 5th great granpappy owned your entire lineage, and beat them all to death except the one that begat you, I don't owe anybody anything because of it.:rant:
Gravdigr • Jun 8, 2010 6:14 pm
Wait a minute. I'm Christian, historically, one of the most persecuted religions on earth, ever. WHERE'S MAH CHECK?!
classicman • Jun 9, 2010 9:55 am
Yeh - better keep quiet Digr, they're lookin to get money FROM you!
Shawnee123 • Jun 9, 2010 10:50 am
Gravdigr;661668 wrote:
Wait a minute. I'm Christian, historically, one of the most persecuted religions on earth, ever. WHERE'S MAH CHECK?!


Of the 19 or so major religions, it certainly is ONE of the most persecuted, right up there with the other 18 or so. ;)
Happy Monkey • Jun 9, 2010 12:13 pm
Definitely in the top hundred at least.
Shawnee123 • Jun 9, 2010 12:29 pm
Poor x-tians. Lions eatin' 'em up and all.

I would totally seek compensation from the lions, if I were you!
;)
Pete Zicato • Jun 9, 2010 1:07 pm
Shawnee123;661804 wrote:
Of the 19 or so major religions, it certainly is ONE of the most persecuted, right up there with the other 18 or so. ;)

Nice. Made me chuckle out loud.
Gravdigr • Jun 10, 2010 4:08 am
classicman;661794 wrote:
Yeh - better keep quiet Digr, they're lookin to get money FROM you!


Yeah, well, they can wish in one hand and shit in the other and watch which one fills up first.

I was making a joke. I ain't asking for (or taking) shit from nobody. I ain't EVER, and I ain't starting now.
classicman • Jun 21, 2010 11:08 pm
[YOUTUBE]urUYWCufD5w&feature[/YOUTUBE]
Urbane Guerrilla • Jun 28, 2010 9:19 pm
Shawnee123;661843 wrote:
Poor x-tians. Lions eatin' 'em up and all.

I would totally seek compensation from the lions, if I were you!
;)


.375 H&H solids make fine lion cartridges, if you just settle for revenge. :3eye:
Urbane Guerrilla • Jun 28, 2010 9:41 pm
TheDaVinciChode;661482 wrote:
Beyond that, they had no honest claim to that land. They didn't take it through means of a declaration of war, followed through with enough military might to take the land... They were handed it . . .


Sounds to me like you missed a war, then: 1948. By your thinking, that territory has indeed been legitimized through having been shot over. Five countries invaded Israel that week, in initial aggregate strength of about 25,000, later reinforced. And they lost.

Coupla paras here that explain why Israel was motivated to take all of Jerusalem in '67 -- one could hardly imagine them doing anything else, what with the situation between 1949 and 1967.

1948 Arab-Israeli War -- a bit more depth.
classicman • Jul 22, 2010 4:42 pm
When I'm talking to people from outside Washington, one question inevitably comes up: Why is the media so liberal? The question often reflects a suspicion that members of the press get together and decide on a story line that favors liberals and Democrats and denigrates conservatives and Republicans.

My response has usually been to say, yes, there's liberal bias in the media, but there's no conspiracy. The liberal tilt is an accident of nature. The media disproportionately attracts people from a liberal arts background who tend, quite innocently, to be politically liberal. If they came from West Point or engineering school, this wouldn't be the case.

Now, after learning I'd been targeted for a smear attack by a member of an online clique of liberal journalists, I'm inclined to amend my response. Not to say there's a media conspiracy, but at least to note that hundreds of journalists have gotten together, on an online listserv called JournoList, to promote liberalism and liberal politicians at the expense of traditional journalism.

My guess is that this and other revelations about JournoList will deepen the distrust of the national press. True, participants in the online clubhouse appear to hail chiefly from the media's self-identified left wing. But its founder, Ezra Klein, is a prominent writer for the Washington Post. Mr. Klein shut down JournoList last month—a wise decision.

It's thanks to Tucker Carlson's Daily Caller website that we know something about JournoList, though the emails among the liberal journalists were meant to be private. (Mr. Carlson hasn't revealed how he obtained the emails.) In June, the Daily Caller disclosed a series of JournoList musings by David Weigel, then a Washington Post blogger assigned to cover conservatives. His emails showed he loathes conservatives, and he was subsequently fired.

This week, Mr. Carlson produced a series of JournoList emails from April 2008, when Barack Obama's presidential bid was in serious jeopardy. Videos of the antiwhite, anti-American sermons of his Chicago pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, had surfaced, first on ABC and then other networks.


JournoList contributors discussed strategies to aid Mr. Obama by deflecting the controversy. They went public with a letter criticizing an ABC interview of Mr. Obama that dwelled on his association with Mr. Wright. Then, Spencer Ackerman of The Washington Independent proposed attacking Mr. Obama's critics as racists. He wrote:

"If the right forces us all to either defend Wright or tear him down, no matter what we choose, we lose the game they've put upon us. Instead, take one of them—Fred Barnes, Karl Rove, who cares—and call them racists. . . . This makes them 'sputter' with rage, which in turn leads to overreaction and self-destruction."

No one on JournoList endorsed the Ackerman plan. But rather than object on ethical grounds, they voiced concern that the strategy would fail or possibly backfire.

Link

I don't know that this type of thing went on in the past. I mean in such an organized way. Instead of reporting, it almost seems as though they chose who they were supporting and helped that candidate as they saw fit.

Yes, this is an opinion piece.
TheMercenary • Jul 22, 2010 5:45 pm
The general Left-wing media biased is well established, which is one of the reasons that Right-wing radio and TV has become so popular IMHO.
classicman • Jul 25, 2010 11:19 pm
CNN Host Calls for Crackdown on 'Bloggers' in Wake of Sherrod Incident: 'Something’s Going to Have to be Done Legally'
Should there be a "gatekeeper" regulating internet bloggers? In the aftermath of the Shirley Sherrod incident, that's what CNN promoted on July 23.

Anchors Kyra Phillips and John Roberts discussed the "mixed blessing of the internet," and agreed that there should be a crackdown on anonymous bloggers who disparage others on the internet.

"There are so many great things that the internet does and has to offer, but at the same time, Kyra, as you know, there is this dark side," Roberts said. "Imagine what would have happened if we hadn't taken a look at what happened with Shirley Sherrod and plumbed the depths further and found out that what had been posted on the internet was not in fact reflective of what she said."

But Phillips replied that the mainstream media "can't always do that."

"There's going to have be a point in time where these people have to be held accountable," Phillips said. "How about all these bloggers that blog anonymously? They say rotten things about people and they're actually given credibility, which is crazy. They're a bunch of cowards, they're just people seeking attention."

Phillips demanded to know what Andrew Keen thought needed to be done. Keen, author of "The Cult of the Amateur: How Today's Internet is Killing Our Culture," who suggested that there needs to be an internet "gatekeeper," had been interviewed by Roberts and quoted in the segment.

"Well what Andrew talked about with me was this idea of a gatekeeper but there are huge first amendment rights that come into play here - freedom of speech and all that. And he said the people who need to be the gatekeepers are the media to check into these stories," said Roberts.

Phillips wanted to go even further, asking if "there's going to come a point where something's going to have to be done legally" about anonymous bloggers.

"There has to be some point where there's some accountability. And companies, especially in the media have to stop giving these anonymous bloggers credit," she said.

Roberts responded that anonymous blogging might benefit from "checks and balances."

"If you're in a place like Iran or North Korea or something like that, anonymous blogging is the only way you could ever get your point of view out without being searched down and thrown in jail or worse," said Roberts. "But when it comes to a society like ours, an open society, do there have to be some checks and balances, not national, but maybe website to website on who comments on things?"

CNN's two regulation-happy reporters, think the Sherrod situation can help bring attention to the "necessity" of blogging reform if she brings a defamation lawsuit against Andrew Breitbart.

According to Roberts, Sherrod has "the power now and she also has the profile to maybe bring this into a new light, so we'll see where this goes."


Read more

And exactly who is gonna do this? WTF? 1st amendment ring a bell?
Lamplighter • Jul 26, 2010 12:27 am
A start will be when everyone that is interested in politics
recognizes the face and name of Andrew Breitbart,
and rejects whatever he says or does in the future.

He puked on his own reputation.
gvidas • Jul 26, 2010 3:00 am
David Foster Wallace, "Host"

The whole article is gold, but here are two of my favorite passages:

More or less on the heels of the Fairness Doctrine's repeal came the West Coast and then national syndication of The Rush Limbaugh Show through Mr. McLaughlin's EFM Media. Limbaugh is the third great progenitor of today's political talk radio partly because he's a host of extraordinary, once-in-a-generation talent and charisma—bright, loquacious, witty, complexly authoritative—whose show's blend of news, entertainment, and partisan analysis became the model for legions of imitators. But he was also the first great promulgator of the Mainstream Media's Liberal Bias idea. This turned out to be a brilliantly effective rhetorical move, since the MMLB concept functioned simultaneously as a standard around which Rush's audience could rally, as an articulation of the need for right-wing (i.e., unbiased) media, and as a mechanism by which any criticism or refutation of conservative ideas could be dismissed (either as biased or as the product of indoctrination by biased media). Boiled way down, the MMLB thesis is able both to exploit and to perpetuate many conservatives' dissatisfaction with extant media sources—and it's this dissatisfaction that cements political talk radio's large and loyal audience.


CONTAINS EDITORIAL ELEMENTS It should be conceded that there is at least one real and refreshing journalistic advantage that bloggers, fringe-cable newsmen, and most talk-radio hosts have over the mainstream media: they are neither the friends nor the peers of the public officials they cover. Why this is an advantage involves an issue that tends to get obscured by the endless fight over whether there's actually a "liberal bias" in the "elite" mainstream press. Whether one buys the bias thing or not, it is clear that leading media figures are part of a very different social and economic class than most of their audiences. See, e.g., a snippet of Eric Alterman's recent What Liberal Media?:

[quote]No longer the working-class heroes of The Front Page/His Gal Friday lore, elite journalists in Washington and New York [and LA] are rock-solid members of the political and financial Establishment about whom they write. They dine at the same restaurants and take their vacations on the same Caribbean islands … What's more, like the politicians, their jobs are not subject to export to China or Bangladesh.


This is why the really potent partisan label for the NYT/Time/network—level press is not "liberal media" but "elite media"—because the label's true. And talk radio is very deliberately not part of this elite media. With the exception of Limbaugh and maybe Hannity, these hosts are not stars, or millionaires, or sophisticates. And a large part of their on-air persona is that they are of and for their audience—the Little Guy—and against corrupt, incompetent pols and their "spokesholes," against smooth-talking lawyers and PC whiners and idiot bureaucrats, against illegal aliens clogging our highways and emergency rooms, paroled sex offenders living among us, punitive vehicle taxes, and stupid, self-righteous, agenda-laden laws against public smoking, SUV emissions, gun ownership, the right to watch the Nick Berg decapitation video over and over in slow motion, etc. In other words, the talk host's persona and appeal are deeply, totally populist, and if it's all somewhat fake—if John Kobylt can shift a little too easily from the apoplectic Little Guy of his segments to the smooth corporate shill of his live reads—then that's just life in the big city.[/quote]
TheMercenary • Jul 26, 2010 4:38 pm
Lamplighter;672631 wrote:
A start will be when everyone that is interested in politics
recognizes the face and name of Andrew Breitbart,
and rejects whatever he says or does in the future.

He puked on his own reputation.
I think he served a great purpose in his posting as dishonest as it was on the face of it. His Big Government website is fantastic. Hard to argue with the facts. The idea that anyone who disagrees with the mainstream left-wing media which generally dominates and has dominated the news for years now has now resorted to calling anyone who disagrees with the socialist agenda as "racist". Now we even have the left-wing moguls calling the whole of Fox News a "racist" news organization, even Joe Blow Hard Biden disagrees with that assessment and said it was a false notion. Most importantly we have seen how important it is to certain organizations to continue to play the race card in an effort to legitimize their existence rather than address the important issues that effect certain ethnic groups in our modern society. It is hard to call "the man" racist when "the man" is now a black president. I fully support an open discussion of the issues concerning race in America, but sooner or later you have to stop blaming the white man for all your ills as much as you need to stop blaming Bush for the failures of a Democratically controlled Congress...
classicman • Jul 26, 2010 4:52 pm
HE LIED and apparently he did so intentionally. That is not OK.
Shawnee123 • Jul 26, 2010 5:01 pm
Sure ain't! Lying is bad.
TheMercenary • Jul 26, 2010 7:10 pm
classicman;672819 wrote:
HE LIED and apparently he did so intentionally. That is not OK.


No, he prematurely posted what he was sent, wrongly; and the very next day he posted the rest of the video which rightly vindicated her.

As for Fox, they never even posted the video until AFTER the Obama scumbags who jumped to the conclusion that there was an issue fired her!

This only points out the failure of this administration to do their homework before they through her under the bus...

And it points out how the NAACP uses race baiting to try to prolong the issue of race differences rather that try to truly achieve equality and deal with the issue of race. They were no different than the blogger by focusing on a minority issue to exploit the difference and demonize the group they detest by using the race card. The NAACP is no different.
TheMercenary • Jul 26, 2010 7:47 pm
GEVERYL ROBINSON Nails it again:

Robinson: NAACP shouldn't drink tea

Can someone please explain to me why the NAACP is taking on racism within the Tea Party movement when, according to reports from the Labor Department, the unemployment rate for black youth stands at 50.4 percent?

In addition, the national unemployment rate for blacks is a whopping 17.2 percent and the rates in five states exceed 20 percent, which is a 25-year high, yet the NAACP wishes to focus its attention on Tea Party billboards and the like.

The NAACP is supposed to be an organization whose mission is the advancement of "colored" people. However, recently it seems the only thing the NAACP is advancing is its time on the airwaves.

Do I think the Tea Party leaders need to publicly disavow the racist comments, signs and billboards that appear at some of their rallies? YES! However, I don't believe this is a cause that needs to be championed by the NAACP because there are more important issues at hand.

For example: According to Bureau of Labor Statistics data, "fewer than 14 in 100 young black men actually have jobs." If the NAACP is truly devoted to the advancement of colored people, then why aren't they holding press conferences about the skyrocketing unemployment rates within the black community?

Why are there no forums or "Get Black to Work" campaigns being organized?

Any public denouncement of racism in the Tea Party movement by Tea Party leaders will more than likely be for public relations reasons and nothing more.

If the leaders were truly disturbed, concerned or disagreed with the antics of those within their ranks who have racist attitudes, they would speak out against such actions without the prompting of others.

As someone who has attended more than one Tea Party rally (I was curious, and although curiosity killed the cat, satisfaction brought it back), I can honestly say that there were a few wackos at one of the rallies I attended. But the other rallies were civil. The people I met did not seem to be racists, just mad at the government (and not Obama in particular).

I wanted to go to a few Tea Party rallies to get my own opinion about the organization. I didn't want to base my views on what I saw and heard in the media.

However, the billboard in Iowa sponsored by the North Iowa Tea Party comparing President Obama to Adolf Hitler and Vladimir Lenin was despicable.

I understand that the overall message was to point out the socialist views shared by the three. But whoever thought putting a billboard of the president sandwiched between Lenin and Hitler was a good idea needs to have his or her head examined. The message was definitely lost in the visuals. The advertisement was disrespectful and racist as well.

Having said that, the NAACP needs to regain its focus and direct its attention to the immediate and dire needs of the community(s), which they aim to serve.

Otherwise they run the risk of becoming as useless and ineffective as the Hitler, Obama, and Lenin billboard in Iowa.

I understand their grievances with the Tea Party movement. But right now, the NAACP shouldn't drink tea until they have gotten to the meat of the real issues that plague the people they serve.


http://savannahnow.com/column/2010-07-17/robinson-naacp-shouldnt-drink-tea
Urbane Guerrilla • Jul 27, 2010 3:38 pm
Well, Chode has declared himself on the side of the nondemocracies in the region, and not on the side of the democracy which has had assaults unbroken visited upon it for sixty years of uninterrupted murder.

Well. Antisemitic much? And Chode thinks he ought to be prejudiced, that that is how a human being is supposed to act. Fu-uuuck. With a cholla.
Lamplighter • Aug 7, 2010 6:38 pm
Maybe not a big deal for today's young adults, but for my generation it was transformational...
the image and the constitutional powers of the Presidency
the coverage by the press and the 1st Amendment
the daily national coverage of Congress debating impeachment
even the perception of Nixon's foreign policy achievements (China)
And the battle over Nixon's image continues...

NY Times article...

Watergate Becomes Sore Point at Nixon Library
By ADAM NAGOURNEY
Published: August 6, 2010

YORBA LINDA, Calif. — The sign at the entrance to the largest exhibition room devoted to a single subject at the Nixon Presidential Library and Museum reads “Watergate.” But on Friday, the exhibit was nearly empty, dominated by a 30-foot blank slate of a wall that is testimony to a new battle set off by this still-polarizing former president: how to mark the scandal that forced him from office 36 years ago.


But the Nixon Foundation — a group of Nixon loyalists who controlled this museum until the National Archives took it over three years ago — described it as unfair and distorted, and requested that the archives not approve the exhibition until its objections are addressed.


The foundation’s resistance marks the latest chapter in a long and uncomfortable history between the Nixon loyalists and the National Archives as it seeks to bring the Nixon library, along with an archive of papers and tapes, into the presidential library system.
TheMercenary • Aug 11, 2010 8:33 am
A great example of a group of people trying to re-write history by burying it.
classicman • Aug 30, 2010 1:54 pm
Obama, Democrats got 88 percent of 2008 contributions by TV network execs, writers, reporters
Senior executives, on-air personalities, producers, reporters, editors, writers and other self-identifying employees of ABC, CBS and NBC contributed more than $1 million to Democratic candidates and campaign committees in 2008, according to an analysis by The Examiner of data compiled by the Center for Responsive Politics.

The Democratic total of $1,020,816 was given by 1,160 employees of the three major broadcast television networks, with an average contribution of $880.

By contrast, only 193 of the employees contributed to Republican candidates and campaign committees, for a total of $142,863. The average Republican contribution was $744.


Read more at the Washington Examiner:

I find it a little disturbing that they are the ones so many rely upon for the "news."
xoxoxoBruce • Aug 30, 2010 4:13 pm
3 major? What about FOX? Why were they excluded from the numbers?:eyebrow:
Happy Monkey • Aug 30, 2010 4:41 pm
They were probably trying to use this as a counterstory to the $1 million that News Corp gave to the Republican Governors' Association. As in, "Look, if you add together all of the employees of three other networks, contributing to all Democratic causes, you get $1 million, too!"
spudcon • Aug 30, 2010 8:16 pm
Lamplighter;675084 wrote:
Maybe not a big deal for today's young adults, but for my generation it was transformational...
the image and the constitutional powers of the Presidency
the coverage by the press and the 1st Amendment
the daily national coverage of Congress debating impeachment
even the perception of Nixon's foreign policy achievements (China)
And the battle over Nixon's image continues...

NY Times article...

Watergate Becomes Sore Point at Nixon Library
By ADAM NAGOURNEY
Published: August 6, 2010

And now, the 1st amendment is being tromped on every day, but it's the news media who're trying to silence us.
classicman • Aug 30, 2010 8:53 pm
xoxoxoBruce;679420 wrote:
3 major? What about FOX? Why were they excluded from the numbers?:eyebrow:


As HM said -
Disclosure of the heavily Democratic contributions by influential employees of the three major broadcast networks follows on the heels of controversy last week when it was learned that media baron Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp. contributed $1 million to the Republican Governors Association.
Urbane Guerrilla • Aug 31, 2010 3:31 am
If you don't like what the Democrats and Socialists are doing now that they have the chance, shouldn't you turn to those media that support the Republicans, and Libertarians?
classicman • Aug 31, 2010 10:43 am
Not personally - I don't want the media to play politics. Thats not their business. I just want the facts without all the bias.
Happy Monkey • Aug 31, 2010 11:45 am
Unfortunately, the current definition of "facts without bias" is to report what Democrats say, and what Republicans say, and let the reader decide, because investigating the facts might result in a "biased" answer. And then there's Fox, which does the same, but without "what Democrats say".
xoxoxoBruce • Aug 31, 2010 1:09 pm
FOX doesn't ignore democrats, they report what democrats meant.;)
Happy Monkey • Aug 31, 2010 1:33 pm
And then the rest of the media dutifully reports what Fox says.
classicman • Aug 31, 2010 1:36 pm
lol - nice to know you are as disenfranchised as I am.
TheMercenary • Sep 1, 2010 6:11 pm
Happy Monkey;679598 wrote:
And then the rest of the media dutifully reports what Fox says.


Actually it is well documented that the rest of the media reports generally from a liberal slant and within the last 10 years, what ever the Dems what them to report.
Spexxvet • Sep 1, 2010 6:17 pm
TheMercenary;679919 wrote:
Actually it is well documented that the rest of the media reports generally from a liberal slant and within the last 10 years, what ever the Dems what them to report.


Bullshit.
xoxoxoBruce • Sep 1, 2010 6:21 pm
No, not what the Dems want them to report. The reporters personal beliefs may color their reporting, in the questions they ask, and how they summarize the responses, but the press has certainly reported a lot of stuff that embarrassed the Democrats.
TheMercenary • Sep 1, 2010 6:28 pm
There was a pretty well documented study out of a S. Calif University which shows that the news that was currently reported at the time of the study was decidedly liberal in slant and delivery. And it has gotten even more so IMHO since Bush became president and now that Obama is in office. Fox was the first news site to take a decidedly conservative slant. Since then there are none others. As screwed up as they have been delivering some news they really have not screwed up any less than CNBC or some other more liberal sites. It is hard to argue with the ratings as well, they have been at the top of the Cable News networks in popularity for quite a while. Pretty telling for one conservative news source among all the rest that are liberal. Eh, if I don't like something on tv I just change the channel...
xoxoxoBruce • Sep 1, 2010 6:30 pm
I don't disagree that it's gone to hell since Walter Cronkite retired, Just saying the Democrats don't dictate what/how they report.
TheMercenary • Sep 1, 2010 6:31 pm
xoxoxoBruce;679930 wrote:
I don't disagree that it's gone to hell since Walter Cronkite retired, Just saying the Democrats don't dictate what/how they report.
Yea, certainly an over statement on my part, but hell, within the last two years it would be hard to tell the difference.
Redux • Sep 1, 2010 6:42 pm
There is always the suggestion from Sharon Angle, the Republican (tea party) Senate candidate in Nevada:
"We wanted them to ask the questions we want to answer, so that they report the news the way we want it reported."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/08/sharron-angle-press-should-ask.html

Nows thats what I call supporting a free and independent press!
TheMercenary • Sep 1, 2010 8:50 pm
No different than the lapdogs who sit in the White House press brief every day.
TheMercenary • Sep 3, 2010 8:33 am
Breaking news! Not.

The director general of the BBC admitted Thursday that his organisation had been guilty of a "massive bias to the left" but said "a completely different generation" of journalists now works at the broadcaster.



http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.91cc350cfed23f483b23ec44acc183c7.201&show_article=1
classicman • Sep 3, 2010 10:39 am
In reference to 30 year ago ....

"In the BBC I joined 30 years ago, there was, in much of current affairs, in terms of people's personal politics, which were quite vocal, a massive bias to the left," Thompson said.

""Now it is a completely different generation." he added.
lookout123 • Sep 3, 2010 10:51 am
So he is saying the BBC is relatively conservative now?
classicman • Sep 3, 2010 1:01 pm
Keyword - relatively...
Pico and ME • Sep 3, 2010 2:19 pm
I always thought that the 'liberal bias' was mostly just the predominate attitude of the time. Being of liberal bent - which I just thought meant being open and fair-minded, I never saw a bias. However, when Fox News came aboard, I definitely saw the bias there.
classicman • Sep 3, 2010 3:01 pm
Pico and ME;680379 wrote:
Being of liberal bent - which I just thought meant being open and fair-minded

There are plenty of conservatives who are both open and fair-minded. I would verture a guess to say that the vast majority of them are. The problem isn that the Republican party is mostly known for the vocal minority mouthpiece extremists - Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, Coulter and their ilk.
TheMercenary • Sep 4, 2010 8:29 am
Another example of bias in the press, fueling the racist debate...

The Rest of the Story

A few words on hypocrisy:
You may have noticed that all sorts of media from the New York Times on down, made sure their audience knew that the folks at Glenn Beck’s rally in Washington were “overwhelmingly white.”
Reporting on the gathering, the Times described it as “The overwhelmingly white and largely middle-aged crowd.”
Nothing really new here. The “mainstream” media have been calling Tea Party rallies “overwhelmingly white” for quite some time now. Here are a few examples, compliments of the Culture and Media Center, an offshoot of the Media Research Center:
“The crowds turning out for the Tea Party Express rallies are overwhelmingly white.”
Ed Lavandera, CNN “American Morning” March 31, 2010.
“The crowd is still overwhelmingly white.”
Jessica Yellin, CNN’s “Anderson Cooper 360” April 15, 2010.
“The crowd that greeted Palin did nothing to contradict the common description of Tea Party supporters as overwhelmingly white and mostly older.”
Ina Jaffe, NPR “Weekend Edition Sunday” March 28, 2010.
“They are overwhelmingly white and Anglo …”
USA Today July 2, 2010.

“Do you have any concerns when you look out at the crowds and they’re mostly, well, overwhelmingly white people?”
Terry Moran, ABC “Nightline” Nov. 2, 2009.
“You know, one thing to keep in mind about the Tea Party is that it is an overwhelmingly white movement.”
Ron Brownstein, NBC “Meet the Press” April 18, 2010.
And yes, the crowds at Beck’s rally and at Tea Party rallies have indeed been overwhelmingly white. But the folks who turn out to environmental rallies and anti-war rallies and feminist rallies are “overwhelmingly white” too. But for some reason the media feel no need to point that out. They drag race into the discussion only when conservatives are involved — because they see something sinister at these rallies. The ideas put forth are alien to liberal journalists. They’re not mainstream ideas, not as far as liberal journalists are concerned. So noting that the crowds are “overwhelmingly white” is a kind of warning label, not unlike the cancer warning on a pack of cigarettes. This warning label says in essence: BE ON YOUR GUARD. THE PEOPLE AT THESE RALLIES ARE CONSERVATIVES. AND OVERWHELMINGLY WHITE. CONSIDER THESE FACTS WHEN YOU LISTEN TO THEIR RIGHT WING ARGUMENTS.
But there’s another angle here that the media have shown no interest in covering. You see, the crowds at these conservative rallies aren’t the only groups that are “overwhelmingly white.” So are the journalists reporting the story. Can you imagine? So what we have here are “overwhelmingly white” liberal journalists calling conservatives at rallies “overwhelmingly white.” I guess you could call it irony. I prefer hypocrisy.
A few years ago I came up with an idea to make sure we got more racial diversity in our newsrooms – and in all of corporate America, actually. It’s a brilliant idea, if I do say so myself. Here goes:
Every white person in America who thinks affirmative action, as currently practiced, is a good idea, every white person who thinks diversity is important in the workplace, voluntarily gives up his or her job and gives it to a qualified minority person.
That way, instead of waiting another ten or twenty years for “equality” in newsrooms and corporate offices, we’d have that worthy goal accomplished overnight. By tomorrow morning, there would be thousands upon thousands more minority Americans in important jobs. Like I said, it’s brilliant!
I pitched my idea to two network news executives. “Give up your job,” I told them, “and hand it over to a qualified minority.” Both these men were big time advocates of diversity and affirmative action and have given jobs out, at least in part, based on race. Both said it was a very bad idea.
So ends my few words on hypocrisy.


http://www.bernardgoldberg.com/and-now-you-know-the-rest-of-the-story/
classicman • Oct 6, 2010 2:34 pm
American distrust in the media is the high percentage who believe that reporting tilts too far in one ideological direction or the other.

Forty-eight percent believe the media is too liberal while only 15 percent of find that it tilts too conservative. Just 33 percent believe coverage is “just about right.”

Democrats have significantly more trust in the media, as 59 percent indicated that they trust the news to be reported fairly while just 32 percent of Republicans said the same.

The survey of 1,019 adults was conducted Sept. 13-16 and has a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points

Read more

I'm not sure this goes toward what Merc was saying or if its merely the perception at this point in time. Either way I was a little more than surprised at the numbers.
xoxoxoBruce • Oct 6, 2010 2:42 pm
“The crowd is still overwhelmingly white.”

They could be more subtle, like 'The crowd is still overwhelmingly Hockey Fans'. :haha:
Spexxvet • Oct 6, 2010 2:44 pm
classicman;686911 wrote:
Read more

I'm not sure this goes toward what Merc was saying or if its merely the perception at this point in time. Either way I was a little more than surprised at the numbers.


That report is biased.
classicman • Oct 6, 2010 2:54 pm
I agree, but that doesn't change the facts.
Oh, and its just a poll. We all know what they're worth.
classicman • Oct 15, 2010 2:55 pm
Undertoad;655827 wrote:
2010: valueless "news" is replaced by comedy hosts aka Jon Stewart, and bloggers who admit their bias openly and honestly, and report directly from it for an audience that shares it


Link here

...and this kind of crap.
I really cannot say how stupid this asshat is, but I will say that he should be fired. . . IMMEDIATELY.
Happy Monkey • Oct 15, 2010 3:51 pm
If he's fired, the Daily Show will lose another major "moment of zen" provider. They can't afford to lose their two biggest contributors so close together!

And Fox can't afford to set the precedent of firing someone for insulting Muslims.
xoxoxoBruce • Oct 15, 2010 3:53 pm
But the next article down the page, at that link, is good.
tw • Oct 15, 2010 5:48 pm
Why fire a Fox News public spokesman who only repeats the party line? In the constant dribble that says everyone but extremists are liberals ... Bill O'Reilly also went on a nationwide talk show to avidly blame Islam for Terrorism and 11 September. And repeated it bluntly.

After then being chastised by Barbra Walters for reciting the Fox News political agenda, O'Reilly decided to retract his hate statements. No doubt he did so only because of pressure. A liar cannot maintain his claims when confronted with hard facts. O'Reilly promotes hate as any good wacko extremist would. Even David Letterman straight out called him what he is.

How much is this is understood outside of America? After lying to kill off 4,400 America soldiers on lies, and after creating the worst recession in 75 years, promoters of hate are again vying for power by promoting hate.

Hate is not from one Fox News spokesmen. Hate of Muslims is routinely advocated by Fox News people as if Muslims were the new jew or negro. Do those here not from America understand how routine this is now seen in the streets? Hate is openly promoted, but without the expression "We want Obama to fail."

BTW, Fox News advertises itself as "Fair and Balanced".
classicman • Oct 15, 2010 6:53 pm
tw;688495 wrote:
Why fire a Fox News public spokesman


Because he's a worthless piece of shit mouthpiece. Same thing with Whoopi Goldberg and Joy Behar. They both walked out of their jobs. That's grounds for immediate termination. :eyebrow:
TheMercenary • Oct 19, 2010 2:44 pm
:)
xoxoxoBruce;686914 wrote:
They could be more subtle, like 'The crowd is still overwhelmingly Hockey Fans'. :haha:
TheMercenary • Mar 3, 2011 12:14 pm
This was interesting... not new, just interesting.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/03/03/journalists_and_bad_judgment_109095.html
classicman • Apr 5, 2012 11:04 pm
NBC News maliciously edited audio from a 911 call and broadcast that audio on "The Today Show."

NBC News told America that Zimmerman said this:

ZIMMERMAN: This guy looks like he’s up to no good … he looks black.

But that was a lie, we now know the actual conversation went like this:

ZIMMERMAN: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something.
It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.

DISPATCHER: OK, and this guy – is he black, white or Hispanic?

ZIMMERMAN: He looks black.