Cloud's car stuff
whether or not I can get my flippin' check engine light fixed or NOT; it's clear to me . . . the writing is on the Wall . . . that it's time to think about getting a new car. But Lee! you say, your car is only 9 years old . . . and you only have 54,000 miles . . . and you still haven't learned to change the tire. Tough, I say. It's time if I can swing it. So: this is
a thread for me to talk about cars and car buying. I hope you'll be patient with me, because it's likely to take me a long time.
First:
What's up with all the recalls? I'm reading the car news, and there are recalls or inquiries on Hummers, Corvettes, Dodge Calibers, Toyota Sequoias, Nissan Infinitis . . . and more. My own Honda had a recall on the side airbag.
In terms of the Toyota recall, Consumer Reports says:
So far, 1.6 million (or roughly 70 percent) of the vehicles related to the sticky accelerator pedals have been repaired. Toyota claims to have also repaired 1.5 million vehicles for the potential floor mat pedal entrapment (about 27 percent of the total), and 115,000 (75 percent) of the 2010 Toyota Prius and Lexus models related to the antilock brake system. Over 732,000 vehicles have received both the floor mat and sticking pedal fixes.
That may be fine, but it seems like they've been having lots of reliability trouble spots in the past few years. So maybe I should scratch Toyota off my list? And are there that many more problems? I thought cars in general were more reliable these days. Does that mean the watchdogs are doing a better job?
First: What's up with all the recalls? I'm reading the car news, and there are recalls or inquiries on Hummers, Corvettes, Dodge Calibers, Toyota Sequoias, Nissan Infinitis . . . and more.
In Toyota, these recalls are because Toyoda took over. Then announced Toyota was at step three in a five year corporate failure process. Started demanding transparency and corporate corrections. So a year later, stuff came out.
IOW Toyota is suffering from a mismanagement problem from four and nine years ago. Toyoda is simply cleaning out the closet AND fixing problems created by his predecessor - who was an economist, who never developed a car, and who never worked outside of corporate offices.
Whereas Toyota news is this cleanup, other manufacturers (Hummer, Saturn, Chrylser) continue to have the same problems that have always had.
In about five years, view Chrysler to see if Marchionne has finallly eliminated that automaker’s #1 problem - their management. Toyoda has addressed it in Toyota. GM still is lying. Here we are half way through 2010 and the Volt - their first hybrid - is still not selling. 16 years after Clinton gave them $millions to design one, they still do not have a hybrid.
Your error code says the IACV is defective. The tech has replaced four computers - and still will not replace what would be defective - the IACV? Who is that guy’s boss? Call the Honda regional office. That is why Honda has corporate specialists whose job is to address such problems.
Thanks, TW. The light is off today. oy!
Second: Car Porn! I'm having lots of fun surfing the car manufacturers' sites, viewing the 360 views, the interiors, and all that. Not quite ready to test drive, but I'll get there. I'm just not sure what kind of car I want. For the last 18 years I've driven small Honda coupes/sedans. I miss having some cargo space-I want more versatility. So I'm focusing mainly on the small SUV/wagon sector.
I see you in a Subaru Outback Wagon
going 30 in a 45MPH zone in front of me.
yeah; or a Forester. Outbacks are more expensive, and they pretty much look the same to me (and the Foresters are better rated).
i'm going to take this opportunity to drive a few different styles--a bigger suv, a very small car maybe, even a truck. I kind of miss having a manual transmission--even after all these years, I sometimes find my hand near the gearshift wanting to shift.
I've always really like the Element, and may look at stuff like the Scion XB etc. too; the quirkiness appeals to me.
going 30 in a 45MPH zone in front of me.
Nope!
not that old yet . . .
Do I need to make an appt for a test drive? Should I?
If you know specifically what you want to drive, it would save you some time. Then again, most dealers will make the appointment, and do nothing to prepare. ...because they don't really believe you'll show up when you say you will or that they will be free when you do arrive.
we have a Mitz Outlander , Nice little Suv-ette , plenty of room in the back
Snappy Mivec 4 cylinder , hi 20s Low 30s MPG
I woke up this morning dreaming of a black Chevy Equinox in my driveway.
I did mention car PrOn, didn't I?
The Nissan Rogue is sexier and its transmission will be a CVT, not a GM slushbox.
the Equinox is on the high end of what I might be able to afford, too. Neither the Equinox or the Rogue are "recommended." But the HHR is. And so is the Nissan Murano (too expensive), the Nissan Versa Hatchback (too small?) but not the Cube. I'm talking about the CR recommendation, which is only one criteria I'm looking at, but it's a place to start.
The CVT -- that's the transmission, right? Supposed to be good? What about going for a manual transmission? Cheaper, more fun (I don't typically drive in stop-and-go traffic), sometimes more fuel efficient, but you have to replace the clutch in 4 yrs?
Why would you have to replace the clutch?
CVT = Constant Velocity Transmission
also comes with a 10 yr 120,000 mile warranty
The manuals are fun, yes indeed, but CVT can actually be a little more efficient than manual because it always picks the right gear. Gear being the wrong word for CVT... it has thousands of gears really...
The not speeding up going down hills is pretty cool.
Just curious, but doesn't that put more wear on the engine?
(ADMITTEDLY NOT A CAR GUY)
I thought clutches wear out after several years, no?
I live on top of a big steep hill, so that's a test drive up and down right there. Up the hill with the air conditioning going full blast; down the hill either shifting down or seeing what it does by itself.
I've never heard of that -is that in a particular car? Our Focus in nearly 10 years old with over 100K and no clutch problems.
But if you're not a stick fanatic, why would you consider one? In the UK it's the norm and we enjoy driving stick, so one of our cars is manual transmission, but here it's not the norm, it's not going to save you a bucketload of money, so unless you're really into it....?
I have an 01 Subaru outback. I'm happy with it.
I don't know if this applies to the new models, but for the older ones, the 5 speed manual comes with a low-range option, while the 4 speed auto doesn't.
I'm focusing mainly on the small SUV/wagon sector.
Don't forget to take a look at the Mazda 5 and Kia Rondo. They are in their own category, the wagon/tiny minivan category. Only these 2 cars on the market in that category, and both are recommended by CR, if that's what you value. The Kia has more power and seats 7, and the Mazda seats 6. Both fold down their seats for tons of cargo room. They are small on the outside (for example both have a smaller footprint and shorter wheelbase than a Honda Accord!) and big on the inside. Small enough for driving around every day by yourself, and when you flip the back seats up, you can haul around all the grandkids when they visit. The 3rd row of seats is small in each, but the kids will be back there, so it's fine.
Not gonna turn any heads though. They are both pretty average to look at.
You could always paint go-faster stripes on them
re: clutch -- I'm not a stick fanatic, but I just miss it occasionally. Sometimes you can get a peppier engine and better gas mileage with a standard tran-but not always. Idk where I heard that you have to replace the clutch--something I read.
Probably the Mazdaspeed3 is what I'd be looking at from Mazda. I think the 5 is not what I'm looking for. The Kias . . . if I were to look at any of those, it'd be the Soul. I like the "boxy" segment
would you go for a more expensive car with a cheaper trim? or a cheaper car with a more expensive trim?
If the expensive trim was stuff I wanted (more cyl/hp, sport susp, leather etc) I'd go that route. Sometimes that stuff is standard on a more expensive car though, just have to compare.
Clutches do wear out, depends on driving style, vehicle etc., but you should be talking well over 100K miles, if not 200+, not 'every few years'
Manual transmissions also require less maintenance, no fluid flush and change every 30K
went to a Chevy dealer today and looked at (did not drive) an Equinox and an HHR. Wasn't terribly impressed with the Equinox (rear door heavy, huge blind spot), but liked the HHR--a lot! Much more "me." It's staying on the list.
yes. pretty pictures. I like the funky cars and the boxy cars. My present car is so bland as to be almost invisible--I'd like to change that.
but liked the HHR--a lot! Much more "me." It's staying on the list.
Cicero had one, you should ask her how she liked it.
Saw one in a pretty color the other day, a darker red. Looked like my old "chili pepper red" Jeep.
My hairdryer has more power than the Cube I drove. With the 4 of us in it I wanted to open the door and push with my foot...
.....the Cube I drove. With the 4 of us in it I wanted to open the door and push with my foot...
yah.... ok, miss 'turns the A/C off in her Hemi powered Jeep' to pass minivans.....
I think Jinx regains the hotness points she lost with the ear thingy. :driving:
yah.... ok, miss 'turns the A/C off in her Hemi powered Jeep' to pass minivans.....
They make a vacuum switch that does that automatically. :yesnod:
My hairdryer has more power than the Cube I drove.
So you are A after all!!
:blush: busted...
That was back in my modeling days.... when I was much taller.
ear thingy? you mean Bluetooth? they passed a law in our town you're not even supposed to hold your cell phone in the car, so that's pretty much required now, no matter how dumb it looks
I don't like engines that are too wimpy--they don't seem to age well. The powerful engine on the HHR is only on the highest trim level, and may be out of my price range. And I live on the top of a steep hill.
Don't forget that gas prices might be increasing significantly within the next year or two.
The wholesale price of gasoline went down 25 cents in the last week.
Yes, but she didn't own the car last week.
She did own A car last week. :eyebrow:
I think smaller cars are the way to go in the long run. In the short term, I'm more concerned about power than gas mileage, because of t he hill and my work commute is 5 miles. round trip. I know that could change someday, though.
As far as the HHR goes, there's an intermediate engine too, and the mileage is competitive "in its class." It also has a "flex" fuel ethanol engine thing--not that it's helpful around here (or practical-I don't really know anything about that). And it's ideal for customization, should I be so inclined.
still early days, though! I'm trying not to fall in love with a particular car.
It also has a "flex" fuel ethanol engine thing--not that it's helpful around here (or practical-I don't really know anything about that).
Flex fuel is a scam. Done only because the automaker gets 'government welfare' for each flex fuel vehilce sold. It has no useful purpose to you. And can result in more expensive future maintenace.
Question: Car nose covers (aka car "bras"): helpful? or stupid?
Car nose covers, extraneous spoilers, things that make your car make sounds like your bike made when you put playing cards in the spokes, and poorly done flames or other decorations that look like you scraped your car down a dividing wall = Teh Gheys.
Question: Car nose covers (aka car "bras"): helpful? or stupid?
Has your current bra-less car ever needed maintenance on the front bit of the hood? Perhaps the repeated impact of gigantic mosquitos threw it out of alignment over the years? No? I think you're safe without it.
maintenance? no, but it does show a bit of extra paint wear on the front.
lol - @ Clod. Took the thoughts right outta my head.
so, you would think I was "ghey" -- whatever that means -- if I got a HHR and got some custom paint detailing? Like . . a white one with black stripes (and/or a black nose guard) or something?
Just dreaming. I think it could look pretty cool, frankly.
maintenance? no, but it does show a bit of extra paint wear on the front.
Well then here's what you do: get your new car, and drive it around bra-less for about ten years (show off the knockers while you got 'em, knowhatI'msaying?) When the extra paint wear eventually shows up,
then put a car bra on it to cover it up--and the bonus is it won't look all douchebaggy at that point, because putting it on a 10-year-old car will be all postmodern and ironic.
Aww no...I just see some really bad paint jobs sometimes. I have to look twice to determine if the car is scraped. It's like a bad tattoo that looks like someone kicked someone in the calf.
And YOU wouldn't be Teh Ghey...the car would. ;)
That sounds like a lovely combo you're talking about.
putting it on a 10-year-old car will be all postmodern and ironic.
(lafs)
nothing worse than a 10 year old bra flyin in the breeze.
no purple swirls? (pouts)
If I had to spend my own money for a brand new (realistic) car, I'd have to look hard at the Mazda 3. Wagon.
You can have anything you [strike]want[/strike] can afford.
Or a 2010 Honda Shadow Phantom. Brand new? 8 grand. $8,000. Pretty damn smooth for a ricer.
The Mazda 3 wagon and Mazdaspeed3, as well as the Mazda5, are all on my look list.
I've got three words for you, Cloud.
G
T
I
of which there are NONE in my town or within 75 miles. I'm kinda out in the boonies. Makes it kind of hard to evaluate and obtain.
Cloud, I'm in Minnesota this week on business. We have an HHR as our rental car. I'll give you my opinion of it at the end of the trip. (Unfortunately I'm not the driver so I don't know if that will be worth much.)
thanks; they seem to be popular rental cars. In a "I wouldn't want to own one, but it's nice to visit" kind of way
maintenance? no, but it does show a bit of extra paint wear on the front.
I dated a guy that had a bra on his car. Huge pain in the ass to remove to lift the hood - and the bra itself caused paint wear in the spots where it rubbed.
Turns out he was actually gay too.
The Mazda and Kia wagons look like minivans to me, without the sliding doors, which is the best feature of minivans to begin with.
the Mazda 5 has the sliding doors though I think. I didn't think about the lifting the hood thing.
Went to the Toyota/Scion place today. Took a look at the Scion Xb. I was disappointed--I didn't like it as much as I thought I would. The dash is laid out weird, and the driving position seems uncomfortable. I also looked at the Toyota Rav4, which is, and has been a pretty nice car.
can you put "too much down" on a car? One of the articles I read listed this as a car buying mistake. How could that be a bad move?
Without doing any research . . . Joe Consumer might be talked into buying a car in too high a price bracket. He could also be switched to leasing without his knowledge or consent. And he might also put down too much money. In the F&I Room he might be talked into buying protection packages, road safety kits and extended warranties.
perhaps I'm misinterpreting what this means?
If you are getting zero percent financing, I would put as little down as possible. But if you pay any interest at all, money you put down is reducing what you will pay in interest over the lifetime of the loan. The higher the interest rate, the more you would probably want to put down because you would be saving more.
well, that's what I thought. And I won't be getting any 0% financing, either. They say only 20% of buyers qualify for that kind of deal.
also, most lenders will only lend a certain amount versus the actual value of a car. Capital One, for example won't go over 120% of the invoice or NADA trade value including everything. tax tags, warranties, gap, everything.
Putting minimal cash down limits the dealer's ability to really crack you over the head.
conversely, they set rates based on equity position.....so you could get rates as low as 2.69% for 48 on < 70% LTV (loan to value) ratio deals. There are a lot of factors that go into whether or not putting big money down makes sense.....not the least of which is the availability of said cash....
okay, I'm not sure I understood all that. I'm hoping to put at least 50% down. You see any problem with that?
not as long as you negotiate price separately from payment, and get a payment calculator app for your iphone to check the payments the salesman is giving you. It is a common practice to put 'air' in a payment to make the bump in finance easier. negotiate only price and rate/term. figure the payments out yourself. dinkytown.net is a good resource. get a good warranty, and negotiate that too.
Already got the loan calculator app! getting all my ducks in a row. Told you it was going to take me some time, though.
Cloud, just buy the car from lumberjim - then you won't have to worry about the details.
Buy it from Jim and I will drive it over for the gas. It'll be about $250. Jim's dealership will pay the one-way ticket back from ABQ, which will be similar, so it's even-steven.
not ready, though, guys! I want to save a bit more money and see if I can improve my credit score first. And I need to figure out how to fix and sell my present car.
You know . . . I'm the kind of person who, if I need a white blouse, will go to the mall, go to the most likely store and find a nice white blouse, then--will have to look at every other store in the mall that could contain a white blouse just in case.
Very annoying. But then, sometimes, when I'm ready, I'm ready!
I'm the same way, Cloud, especially with expensive items (i.e. anything more than about $20).
Here's an article I thought interesting on fuel economy myths, and a site where you can compare the official numbers:
Top 10 misconceptions about fuel economy
fueleconomy.govCheck out
http://www.fordcustomgraphics.com/cars.php Ford has a new program in which they'll install vinyl graphics on certain cars. You can
play around with the colors and graphics, which is pretty fun. I'd probably have to get a Fiesta, which makes me cringe, since I had an old Fiesta which was a piece of crap. The new ones look a bit better tho.
Over the weekend I went to a couple more car places.
Went to another
Chevy place to drool over the HHRs.
Went to the
Honda place--the fit is still OK, 'tho the salesman said the front passenger seat doesn't fold flat anymore, which I'm not sure is true. Still liked the Element.
Went to the
Nissan place. Kinda liked the Cube, tho it's not on the CR recommended list and they only had one '09 one. Loved the Murano--very nice car, but prolly too expensive; and the Rogue might be a possibility.
Sill on my list: Mazda, Hyundai, and possibly VW
only buy a VW if the VIN begins with a W.
srsly
for W[COLOR="DimGray"]est[/COLOR] Germany?
Let's break down the Vehicle Identification Number, starting with the first character. (Please note the letter "I" as in indigo, the letter "O" as in orange, and the letter "Q" as in queen are NOT found in any VIN Numbers.)
(We will use the following VIN as an example: 2FTRX18W1XCA01212)
The first character represents the country of manufacture, and can be a letter or a number, each signifying a different country. The most common ones are as follows:
(1 = USA, 2 = Canada, 3 = Mexico, J = Japan, K = Korea, W = Germany, Y = Finland, Sweden)
So using the Auto VIN Decoder in the above example, this particular car was made in Canada.
The second/third characters represent the manufacturer, also known as the make. The most common are:
(A = Alfa Romeo, B = Dodge, C = Chrysler, D = Daihatsu, E = Eagle, F= Ford/Eagle, G = All General Motors vehicles (Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Saturn)
H = Honda/Acura, J= Jeep, L = Lincoln, M = Mitsubishi, N = Nissan/Infiniti, P = Plymouth, S = Subaru, T = Toyota/Lexus, V = Volkswagen)
So using the Auto VIN Decoder in the above example, this car is a Ford or an Eagle..since Eagle is no longer made, it is most likely a Ford.
Other popular makes use a 3-character initial sequence:
(TRU/WAU = Audi, 4US/WBA/WBS = BMW, 2HM/KMH = Hyundai, SAJ = Jaguar, SAL = Land Rover, 1YV/JM1 = Mazda, WDB = Mercedes-Benz, VF3 = Peugeot, WP0 = Porsche, YK1/YS3 = Saab, YV1=Volvo)
The fourth character is the type of restraint system.
In the above example, "R" represents hydraulic breaks using the VIN Decoder.
The fifth, sixth & seventh characters are the vehicle line, series and body style. This will obviously be different across makes and models.
In the above example, characters 5, 6 & 7 are X18: X18 is a Ford F150 Pickup 4WD Super Cab
The eighth character is the engine type.
With the Auto VIN Decoder, W represents a 4.6 liter V-8 engine.
The tenth character represents the year of the car. Pay close attention to this one:
B = 1981 F = 1985 K = 1989 P = 1993 V = 1997 1 = 2001
C = 1982 G = 1986 L = 1990 R = 1994 W = 1998 2 = 2002
D = 1983 H = 1987 M = 1991 S = 1995 X = 1999 3 = 2003
E = 1984 J = 1988 N = 1992 T = 1996 Y = 2000 4 = 2004
For the most recent used model year, 5 = 2005[COLOR=Blue] LIKE THAT[/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue]THRU 2009.....
2010: A[/COLOR]
In the above example, the "X" indicates that this car was made in 1999.
The eleventh character indicates the assembly plant.
In the above example, the C indicates Ontario, Canada
Characters 12-17 represent the vehicle's unique fingerprint. It is these six digits which make every single vehicle in the world different.
So using the Auto VIN Decoder one last time, the Vehicle Identification Number: 2FTRX18W1XCA01212 represents a 1999 Ford F150 Pickup 4WD Super Cab manufactured in Ontario, Canada with hydraulic brakes and a 4.6-liter V-8 engine.
So there you have it, the Auto VIN Decoder. If you are in the market for a used vehicle, use this decoder to make sure that it is indeed the exact model that the seller is claiming it is. Once you have verified the Vehicle Identification Number is accurate, you can proceed with your VIN check and learn everything you need to know about that particular car.
I wonder if I will ever be able to use that information.
I never knew! It's so cool to know. I'm in the know now.
[COLOR=White]
I'm rambling...I'm tired.[/COLOR]
very interesting! tire codes are also quite useful to know
TIRES:
P255 75 R 15
P= PASSENGER CAR
255= MILLIMETERS WIDE
75 = SIDE WALL HEIGHT, % OF WIDTH (191.25MM IN THIS CASE)
R= SPEED/WEIGHT RATING
15= INNER DIAMETER
wait, I thought there was part of the tire code that showed the year manufactured? No time to look for it now tho
okay, found the info on the year made on CR (at the end of this stuff). I remembered this from last time I bought tires.
Size. P235/70R16 is a common one. P denotes passenger-car tire, even though the tire may be designed for light trucks (an LT, or light truck, prefix is for heavy-duty light-truck tires). The number 235 is the cross-section width in millimeters, while 70 is the ratio of sidewall height to cross-section width (70 percent). R means radial-ply construction and 16 is the wheel diameter, in inches.
Load index. This number is based on the weight the tire can safely carry. You'll find it after the tire size; the 104 load index for most of the tires tested for this report correlates to 1,984 pounds. Choose tires with a load index at least as high as the one that's listed on your vehicle's placard.
Speed rating. This letter denotes the maximum sustainable speed and is found directly after the load index. For S-speed-rated tires, it's 112 mph; for T, 118 mph. Speed ratings for other tires include Q, 99 mph; H, 130 mph; V, 149 mph; and Z, 150 mph plus. While such speeds may seem wildly impractical, tires with higher speed ratings tend to provide better handling at legal speed limits. Choose tires that have a speed rating at least as high as the one specified on your vehicle's placard.
Tread-wear rating. Grades for our light-truck tires ranged from 300 to 540. In theory, a tire graded 500 should last twice as long as one graded 250. But the tire makers certify the tires meet the wear ratings.
Traction and temperature scores. These scores denote a tire's wet-stopping ability and temperature resistance. For traction, AA is best, C is worst. For temperature resistance, scores range from A (best) to C.
Maximum pressure. This is a tire's maximum safe air pressure, given in pounds per square inch. But that doesn't mean you should inflate your tires to that pressure, since automakers typically recommend an inflation pressure well below the tire's maximum air pressure. Follow the advice on the vehicle's placard.
When the tire was made. Every tire has a Department of Transportation (DOT) number following the letters on the sidewall. The last four digits determine the week and year the tire was made; for example, the digits 2204 would signify that the tire was made during the 22nd week of 2004. Don't buy tires more than a couple of years old.
I think I heard that they stop doing that thing with the year.
hmm. the information still seems current on the NHTSA and safercar.gov sites.
maybe they stopped putting the plain date, and switched to a code..... It was something
sorry, further investigation reveals that i was talking out my ass.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=172
it's a federal requirement apparently.
I bet the tire manufacturers wanted it taken off. too bad, so sad!
How do you compare/evaluate engines? I get 4/6/8 cylinders; but what about capacity in liters? Is an engine with a bigger capacity always more powerful? And there seems to be lots of other fancy terms I don't understand. I feel like I'm comparing apples to oranges.
I don't want a car with a wimpy little engine. I'd rather get one with a medium powered engine that will get me up my hill and not fade on me as time goes on.
Better to compare what the engine does than how big it is.
What is the horsepower? What is the torque? How fast does it accelerate? What is the MPG? Those numbers will tell you how powerful and efficient the engine is.
There are all sorts of tricks to get power out of an engine, and engine size is only one of them. An important one, but not the only one.
Better still is to drive the damn thing and see if it's good enough for you.
Thanks, glatt, I will look at those numbers. But I don't understand exactly what torque is. "Torque" to me means twisted--but what does it mean for an engine?
Of course I will be eventually driving the cars I'm interested in, and I understand that is a good way to evaluate the engines in a practical way (as long as it's a proper test drive and not around the block),
Torque is what produces the seat of the pants feeling of acceleration. Horsepower measurements are taken at the maximum the engine will produce and usually it's produced at higher engine RPM than you will ever see in normal driving, which makes it kind of a useless measurement for anything but racing and bragging rights. Torque is what you feel.
Trading an '07 HHR LT with 38k on it for $8500 right now.
ooh! (makes frustrated face)
oops! they had to bump it up to $9000... made a mistake on the rebate amount. d'oh!
[joepescivoice]They fuck you on the trade-in![/joepescivoice]
Only buy a VW if the engine is in the back, a 4 banger, and aircooled. The rest of them suck.
I don't think my car aesthetic filter is the same as everyone else's. I like the Element, the HHR, I don' t mind the Rogue and Murano's "smile," and I think the Nissan Juke is really cool looking! It comes out in the fall and looks like a really neat car.
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=imghp&q=nissan+juke&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
but then, why be like everyone else?
I agree Cloud.
And I also like the looks of the Juke, and cool that theyre offering a diesel.
By all means, please yourself. :thumb:
do you thinking buying a new model in its first year is a good idea, though?
I guess it really depends on how much you trust who's doing it, and how much of the car is actually new. If they are hanging new sheet metal on a proven design, if would probably be a safer bet than an entirely new design. Of course entirely new designs are rarer than hen's teeth.
I think you should wait until she's at least 18.
How do you compare/evaluate engines? I get 4/6/8 cylinders; but what about capacity in liters? Is an engine with a bigger capacity always more powerful?
You should have read (here) the expression "Horsepower per liter". That is the very first number to obtain. It tends to say how long the car will last, how durable the interior, how long the tires will last, and how few times it must go into the shop.
To do same as a four cylinder Toyota, GM had to build six cylinder cars. GM would not let engineers design. Therefore Hp/liter identified GM cars as the world's worst even 30 years ago.
A minimum standard for fuel injection is 70 Hp/liter. Any car that does less than that means he should pay you to take the car. Go to Consumer Report to do that arithmetic. Many automakers that made crap would not put both numbers on the sales sticker. They fear you might do the arithmetic - might be informed. The first indicator that a car may be crap - the sticker does not have both Horsepower and Liters.
SUVs typically have the crappiest engines. Do the HP/liter number to appreciate why V-8s still exist. SUV is the excuse to put low technology (1968 designed) engines in a vehicle and hype it as 'cool'. Hp/liter quickly identifies shittiest products.
Minimum for fuel injection is 70. Minimum for turbo charged is 85. Minimum for super charged is 100. GM - the world's most anti-American cars - once sold supercharged engines that were only 65 Hp/liter. Why? They are selling to people who only do what propaganda tells them to believe. Who also knew Saddam had WMDs. It's supercharged. Therefore it must be high performance? No. It is 65 Hp/liter. Therefore the Toyota Tercel even has higher performance.
Honda's S2000 is a performance champion with only a 2 Liter 4 cylinder engine. Its 120 Horsepower per liter engine means those 2 liters do more than a 5 liter V-8 Mustang. But then Mustangs and Camaros often got crappy low performance engines. They were being marketed to people who could even knew Saddam had WMDs. Who are most easily brainwashed.
Another indicator is noise. Patriotic, reliable, longer lasting, high tech cars make less noise. More noise from the engine means it is crap, has less horsepower, consumes more fuel, etc. How can you tell a Lexus is highest performance? It sneaks up behind you and you do not hear it. Lexus is so quiet due to its Hp/liter numbers - typically 83 for fuel injection.
Again, if a vehicle has a V-8, it is the automaker dumping on you the world's crappiest car. What GM did with V-8s, Toyota did same horsepower with V-6s.
Alan Mullay made an interesting comment last month in a meeting. Ford will have four cylinder options for every vehicle. Why? Today's four cylinder engines do what a 1975 big block V-8 did. To have same horsepower (and therefore have a faster car), today buy a four cylinder, 70+ Hp/liter engine. Mullay's statement says that in only ten years (because Ford engineers have only been designing again for 10 years), Ford will probably have replaced every anti-American crap engine with a 70 horsepower per liter version.
GM might have started that program now that Obama saved GM by firing Wagoner. Marchionne would be trying to do same in Chrysler. Now that the world has had that technology (developed in GM in 1975) for so long. 70 Hp/liter engines became the standard from only patriotic automakers starting about 1992.
Did you eyes glaze over with the numbers yet. Then you need to stop and read this again from the top. Every number (even 1992) is useful information for a 2010 car purchase.
Few cars need a V-6. No cars or light trucks need a V-8. Those engines exist so that they can sell a 1968 crap at 2010 prices. So that the most ignorant car buyers can spend more for crappier products and have higher profit margins. For all but vehicles designed to do towing, a minimally standard 4 cylinder engine is more than sufficient.
BTW, what is being discussed for the next generation Indy style racers for post 2012? Six cylinders. So that cars can have the same or more horsepower, be better designed, and do what has always been the mantra for any American patriot. Do more with less.
Gasoline mileage. Which cars will obtain and exceed EPA highway mileage numbers? Those with a high Hp/liter number. GM cars rarely obtained those mileage numbers because their products were doing only high 40's (Tahoe, Suburban, Silverado, Hummer), 52 (older sedans), and various levels of 60s (numbers when Rick Wagoner ruled). When GM was only doing 52 horsepower per liter in all cars, all Honda's and Toyotas were already doing 70.
The deceived have been brainwashed with nonsense such as torque. How to get a car with a higher torque? Downshift. Or change transmission gears so that first gear is even lower. Torque is bullshit used to promote V-8 engines to fools. GM needed you to believe that myth so that you will continue to buy the world's crappiest (1968 technology) engines. So that GM would not spend money on engineering. Torque is nonsense. Your first number in any auto purchase is 'Horsepower per liter'.
Cars that have more than 4 cylinders are often using crap technology. Or have more horsepower than a 1975 biggest block V-8 car. Nobody needs a car with that much horsepower.
The 4 cylinder engines of today match the hp of the V-8s of 1975, because they are controlled by a shitload of computers that all have to work together, as Cloud has already discovered.
The 4 cylinder engines of today match the hp of the V-8s of 1975, because ...
They are simpler. Have less parts. Are machined to tenth of a thousandths of inch. Do not use crappy carburetors. Replaced mechanical advance and retard with electronics. Etc.
Cloud's problem were traceable to one not using his brain. A simple system - only one computer, wire and connectors, and a valve. Only three items. A perfectly good computer was replaced four times. Never once replaced the part that was probably sticking - the valve. Did so because failures are mostly traceable to human failure. A mechanic did shotgunning rather than use his brain.
Fixing cars today is so much easier than it was in the 1960s. Back then we would just keep replacing parts until something worked. Today, that computer error code quickly identified failure only traceable to one of three parts. And still that mechanic could not bother to replace a most likely suspect.
Friends kept having a glowing check engine light on a Honda. The mechanic said to ignore it - that was normal. Therefore he was lying. Eventually, they got stuck - had to be towed. Squirrels had eaten through fuel injection wires. Were using the engine as a warm sleeping area. The mechanic could not even bother to see messed up wires all over the top of the engine? Even the computer told him where a problem was. And he still could not see it. Humans are often the most common reason for failures.
Yeah, I had a friend trade in a year old Ford pickup because squirrels did $2,000 damage to the wiring harness. That didn't happen on 1975 pickups.
Yeah, I had a friend trade in a year old Ford pickup because squirrels did $2,000 damage to the wiring harness. That didn't happen on 1975 pickups.
When the mechanic opened the hood on the 1957 Lincoln, all that remained was an orange cat tail. Repairs were expensive.
do you thinking buying a new model in its first year is a good idea, though?
Yeah, I agree with Bruce on this, it's not completely black/white.
My Commander (XK) is a first year model, and I've definitely had more issues with it than my previous 2 Jeeps (WK and XJ) that it was designed from. BUT it is also more awesome than both those Jeeps in several ways. And later model year XKs were cheapened up a bit.
My biggest issue is the lack of a good Chrysler dealership service dept. around here.
I vote yea for new year's models in Nissan. The ex bought the first year of a new design of Altimas in 1994, and the car had a perfect repair record in almost every way* for a decade. The Cellar car is the first year of a fresh design for Maximas, and it is still an awesome vehicle at 175K miles.
* The interior heating/cooling fan developed a tiny noise. That is literally all that ever went wrong.
I'll take a Juke for a demo when they come out, cloud. I'll let you know how i like it.
Okay, there's some good and useful stuff to go through here. TW, I "heart" your taking the time to respond so thoroughly, but I'm just going to ignore the political comments, 'kay?
My check engine light is still on, btw. :(
I'll take a Juke for a demo when they come out, cloud. I'll let you know how i like it.
thanks. May be too small for me, but that's coming trend, isn't it?
I can't speak for you, but being too small for me is definitely the trend.:blush:
I looked at the Nissan Juke, and all I have to say is YUK!!!
Well, you're not alone. The automotive press is very unkind to anything strange and unusual.
"But I, myself, am strange and unusual."
Yeah, I had a friend trade in a year old Ford pickup because squirrels did $2,000 damage to the wiring harness. That didn't happen on 1975 pickups.
That's because back then, the squirrels had more respect. They didn't wear their pants around their knees, weren't attached to their phones and kept off your lawn....
A woman that reminded me of Cloud was parked next to me when I came out of the market... she was driving a metallic green Kia Soul. She asked me what make my truck is, and even wrote it down on her grocery list.
What's the deal with the "remote start"? I see a few vehicles I'm interested in seem to come with that as standard equipment.
I don't want it! What if it "remote starts" itself right off the lot (I have heard of this happening). I don't trust this. We don't have severe weather here where I could see it being an advantage. Can I get it removed?
you can check for a car bomb from a safe distance.
What's the deal with the "remote start"? I see a few vehicles I'm interested in seem to come with that as standard equipment.
I don't want it! What if it "remote starts" itself right off the lot (I have heard of this happening). I don't trust this. We don't have severe weather here where I could see it being an advantage. Can I get it removed?
That's just silly... I had it on my last Jeep and loved it. Bad weather, cold mornings, groceries in the car on a hot day (turns off after 10 minutes or so if you don't put the key in).
It's the after-market ones that can get wonky, but it just starts it self and turns back off, or maybe turns lights on and shit... not like it unlocks doors and drives off...
I see lots of new cars coming without a spare tire, or you have to pay extra for the spare tire "option." WTF? How could you not need a spare tire?
Are you going to change a flat, or call AAA? Those of us that will actually get out there and change a flat are becoming a minority. So if they can save a couple bucks, make it easier to design, and save a little weight for shipping costs/gas mileage, they will.
[SIZE="1"]Especially on "chick cars".[/SIZE]
I'll call AAA . . . and they'll put on the spare tire. (still confused)*
I make no apologies for "chick cars" 'cause after all . . . I'm a chick. or an old hen, whichever . . .
*ETA: and then I'll drive it to the tire place, where they always tell me I need 4 new tires . . .
what you're seeing is most likely the 'full sized spare' option. 99% of cars come with a spare. exceptions would be cars that have differing diameter tires on front and back..... or cars that don't have the storage space like a 370Z or a Vette.
those cars usually either run RunFlat tires, or provide a compressor and some fancy version of fix=a=flat.
well, it's a good thing I'm not ready, 'cause I really can't find one car that has everything, at least not in my price range. I know there's no "perfect" car, but I'm discouraged and rethinking things.
I would insist on a proper spare wheel.
The repair kits can only deal with minor punctures, and are unreliable.
Space savers tyres are better but you have to drive delicately on them. And what are you going to do with the flat while you're driving for repairs? It doesn't fit in the space-saver bay.
Maybe if you are just running around in cities a space saver would be okay. If you're ever going out of mobile phone range, get a real spare.
Cloud get AAA , worth EVER Penny if yer broke down 20 miles behind the back side of No where ( Where I Live )
Got AAA! And btw, I just noticed that AAA members get free credit monitoring, which is a pretty good deal.
Cloud get AAA , worth EVER Penny if yer broke down 20 miles behind the back side of No where ( Where I Live )
Well surely she could just call you then, couldn't she? I'm sure you'd help. ;)
I find car salesmen have a habit of whisking me off to the back parking lot, or worse, to a secluded residential area for a "test drive." (shakes head). No problems, really, but in hindsight -- Will not go alone, and will not allow this to happen to me again.
and . . . Nissan Rogues are pretty nice.
Did you look into a Pontiac Vibe, Cloud? Ive been considering it (even though CR took its recommendation away).
NONE of the Pontiacs are recommended by CR. They're good looking, but that's not enough to make me take a closer look.
I think I'm waiting for the Juke to come out in October.
Except this Pontiac is actually a Toyota - a Matrix twin, and it gets really good reviews.
NONE of the Pontiacs are recommended by CR. They're good looking, but that's not enough to make me take a closer look.
I think I'm waiting for the Juke to come out in October.
We just got posters of them... very cool
I didn't know it was a turbo! and it has 4 doors, but the back ones are suicide doors with no discernible handles. I'd send you a brochure, but we don't have any yet.
there's a really cool video of the new engine at the bottom of this page
Featuring the first application of Nissan's 1.6-liter direct injected four-cylinder turbo in North America, it will be available with torque vectoring all-wheel drive, so it might just be the driver's car of the bunch, too. Featuring "180+ horsepower and 170+ lb-ft of torque
That tiny four cylinder engine has more horsepower than a 1975 standard Chevy big block V-8.
What was Nissan (and Renault) doing when GM was cost controlling during the late 1990 and 2000s? When all engineering was conducted in the finance department? This current technology says when GM was actually bankrupt. Reasons for GM's bankruptcy appear from innovative companies. Another example of GM spread sheets today only reporting what existed 10 years ago.
Nobody needs that much horsepower in a car. Which says how much smaller that engine should really be because it features the latest examples of current technology.
there's a really cool video of the new engine at the bottom of this page:
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/30/2011-nissan-juke-details-specs-spilled-ahead-of-new-york-intro/
I like the size of the Juke. I'm driving the Suzuki SX4, which has proven to be good in the snow. I wonder how the Juke will match up. It may be too over-powered for good traction.
Thats a good point Griff regarding the overpowered... But she needs to get up a hill not deal with snow ... I think.
it's got a small powerful engine, AWD available, high seating position, and a hatch. CVT or manual transmission, estimated to have great gas mileage, too.
I stand corrected about the Pontiac Vibe. CR has removed it's recommendation temporarily because of unintended acceleration problems. Ouch.
I see the Juke is set to have a "smart throttle" (aka brake override). :)
Is Pontiac even going to be around in 3-5 years? I really cannot figure out why they exist now.
Thats a good point Griff regarding the overpowered... But she needs to get up a hill not deal with snow ...
Big block V-8s standard in the largest Cadillacs were about 180 Hp. That engine had no trouble getting a multiple ton car up any hill.
yes, I'm still 15 at heart
Nothing wrong with that, just don't pierce it, 'cause it'll leak.;)
Body shop: You want us to match what now?
they'd just replace the decal eh?
Found this on the myFICO forums--did you know that auto lenders have access to a DIFFERENT "auto enhanced" FICO score, which the consumer cannot buy or access for himself? (LJ, this is not a dig at you, or car finance people, really! -- it's just for info purposes)
What is an Auto Enhanced score and how do I leverage it?
Most people do not realize there is a difference between your normal FICO score, and the score you are graded on when you apply for auto credit. Your normal credit score is simply referred to as "Classic FICO Score (also referred to as your BEACON score)". The auto score is usually referred to as your "FICO Auto Industry Option". This score it not available for you to purchase and only dealers\finance companies are able to pull it. Here are the major differences between Auto and Classic scores:
-The major difference between FICO scores and FICO auto scores is that the auto scores rate you more on how you've managed your previous auto credit. Most car lenders primarily care about how you’ve paid your auto loans. The auto score gives them this information.
-Have you made late payments on a current or previous auto loan or lease?
-Have you ever settled an auto loan or lease for less than you owed?
-Have you had a car repossessed?
-Have you had an auto account sent to collections?
-Did you include your car loan or lease in your bankruptcy?
How some car dealers "play the spread" to get you to pay more (and increase their commissions)
It's possible that a car dealer has the ability to pull your traditional FICO scores AND your FICO auto scores. That means they'll have six scores on you. It's a guarantee that some of those scores are going to be higher than the others. So which ones will they use when trying to get you financed?
It depends.
Are you familiar with the term "spread"? It's how car dealers make money when they finance you. If they can quote you a higher interest rate than you deserve—then they stand to make a nice chunk of change from the bank that finances you.
The only way to make a killer "spread" is to make you think that you have lower scores.
How to use your FICO scores to your advantage when buying a car?
Fortunately, you don't have to fall for their dirty tricks. Now that you know all about FICO Auto Industry Option scores, you can protect yourself. Here's what I suggest...
When you first walk into the finance director's office, don't tell him what your FICO scores are. Wait until he reviews the scores himself. Then ask him what your scores are. If the scores he reviewed are higher than the ones you have, don't say anything and just go by his scores. However, if your scores are higher, then pull them out and show him. If he has a choice in the type of scores he can use, there's a possibility that he'll be able to use your highest score. And, it will let him know that he doesn't have a fool sitting in front of him. He can't take advantage of you!
How do you find out what your FICO Auto Industry Option scores are before you walk into a car dealership?
You can't. Sorry. They're not for sale—at any price. Only lenders\dealers have access to them.
I mean seriously, up until you read this, had you ever heard of the FICO Auto Industry Option score?
Exactly.
Only a very small percentage of the population even knows they have three FICO credit scores...let alone three Auto Industry Option scores.
So how can you use this information to help you get your next new car financed at the best interest rate?
First, get your three credit reports\scores from myfico.com. Remember, myfico.com is the ONLY place you can get all three of your actual FICO scores. The three major buraeus sell credit scores. There are commonly referred to as FAKO scores and are worthless to you. If you handled your previous auto credit well—your FICO Auto Industry Option scores will be higher than your traditional FICO scores. So expect more from the lender. You can also ask the lender to show you their tier levels. Tiers are basically charts lenders use that have different interest rates based on your scores. You want to see which tier your fall in.
If they won't show you...at least have them break it down verbally for you. (Personally, I like to see it with my own eyes, as I never believe a word that comes out of most car dealers' mouths.)
If you've handled your auto credit poorly...then you should simply try to find an auto lender that uses just the traditional FICO credit scores. When you find a lender that uses a traditional FICO credit score, you'll have your best chance to get the lowest interest rate.
Start by calling dealerships and ask the finance person the following:
-What credit reporting agency do your lenders use?
-Do your lenders use FICO Auto Industry Option scores (or you can say, “FICO auto enhanced scores”) or regular FICO credit scores?
-What’s the minimum score that I need to get approved through your captive lender?
-What’s the minimum score that I need to get approved at the best rate by your captive lender?
-How does a discharged bankruptcy (or other major negative item) affect your loan decision?
-When was the last time you got someone with a [mention whatever concerns you about your credit reports here] on their credit reports approved? Tell me about that deal.
-What factors other than my scores go into your decision-making process?
-Can you dictate which score or which credit reporting agency the lenders you work with use to make a loan decision
from here:
http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/Auto-Credit-and-Scoring/m-p/3684still immersed in carPron. Am drooling over the redesigned (2011 Ford Edge). Prolly over my price range though.
so . . . I want a BLUE car with BLACK leather interior.
really. who cares about performance? or gas mileage?
:D
Ever had a black interior? Gets mighty warm...
that's what everybody keeps saying. But everything gets "warm" here anyway. I'll just put sheepskin covers on it during the summer.
My favorite car eva! was a blue boat of a Cadillac with black leather interior. My stupid drunk ex totalled it, and I don't think I've ever forgiven him for that.
Black is bad! Go to a little used street with white lines painted on it. Put one hand on the black road and the other on the white stripe.
If not for the hotness ;) The black will not last nearly as long as a lighter color. It will crack &/or peel sooner... jus sayin'
killjoys! you're just busting my fantasy of rolling around on the leather seats, aren't ya?
No, leather is OK. Black is the hardest to keep clean, and gets hot, as does red, but sheep skins will take care of that.
but . . . gray is ugly (esPECially gray leather) and beige -- see, I have this rule:
[COLOR="Orange"]JUST SAY NO TO BEIGE! [/COLOR]
why would black leather be harder to keep clean than a lighter gray or beige?
Because it shows every speck of dust and dirt, especially in the hard to clean seams and crevasses. Don't you have any black clothing?
dust? I'm not worried about dust. I'm more worried about spills. Leather wipes off.
happy! 'cause I checked my credit score today and . . . I actually have one! (I didn't before) and it's not too bad! so, hopefully I'll be able to get a loan with decent terms this time
gah! very frustrated! After several months of looking and researching, I've identified a few pretty good all around cars for me. But I keep getting hung up on the "big" v. "small" question, and trying to find one vehicle to suit all my needs has been difficult. So .. .
this week, I've decided to KEEP my present car ('01 Honda Civic, 55,000 miles); and get an additional vehicle, one on the bigger side. I have enough cash for a downpayment separate from a trade/sell, I think. Then, in a few years' time, I can get something smaller and zoomier, and gift my Civic to my oldest grandchild. Or something.
I've always liked the Element, and may consider one of those. Although they apparently wallow like a pregnant sow in emergency situations, I've always been intrigued by the "multi-purpose" side of it. They are dead on reliable, and I could just plan to keep that vehicle--forever or until it dies, probably 20 years. Or I may look for something else "big" with similar utility.
When this idea came to me, I thought, "duh!" (head smack). I get soooo uptight with car trouble--this way, I can have a spare! It wouldn't cost me much to keep the Civic insured and running.
I figure, if worst comes to worst, I can sell my Civic for extra cash, pile all my possessions in the Element, and live in it. yeah, so I'm a little paranoid. Wanna make something of it?
Anyway, that's my thinking this week!
Sounds like a no brainer -
[COLOR="Yellow"](thats what I did)[/COLOR]
still really really liking the Nissan Juke. My main dilemma, if I get this car, will be deciding between FWD(and/or manual tranny); and the AWD version, which only carries the CVT.
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/26/2011-nissan-juke-first-drive-review-road-test/Considering your climate, and doubting you do much off roading, you probably don't need the AWD. So it comes down to whether you want to be shiftless or not.
It's cute cloud. I liked the multiple views.
I am now almost certain I will buy a Juke when they become available in a couple of months. Most likely the top trim CVT/AWD version. Won't decide on a final color until I can see them in person. Here's a review:
[YOUTUBE]adjTBEai2qY[/YOUTUBE]
It looks like a winner. I'll be happy to drive it out to you personally.
nah, fire is so cliched . . . .
I'm putting a dragon on it! :D
i plan on taking one as a demo as soon as I can get one. I will take you on a virtual test drive, and all that shit.
I am now almost certain I will buy a Juke
I'll be happy to drive it out to you personally.
i plan on selling you one.
Looks like a win win win ...
I would certainly like to help my Cellardwellars (and be helped by them), but --Don't you think Pennsylvania is a little far from me to consider? I'd have 2000 miles put on the car before I even got it with this scenario, which would make me unhappy.
If I were to consider buying from far away, I might consider Portland OR; then I could combine with visit to BD#2 and drive it back.
of course it was posted in jest
no, I think they're serious. I appreciate the help, guys, really, but I think it's a little impractical.
well I edited Jim's post and Tony has the band gig and all...
no, I think they're serious. I appreciate the help, guys, really, but I think it's a little impractical.
Yes it is, that's why it will come from New Jersey.
here's a famous juke, showing that it's no joke. In honor of football season and the car which I am impatiently waiting for:
[YOUTUBE]cktZYtqtqP8[/YOUTUBE]
some questions about structuring a loan and paying it off asap (note that I have not yet decided whether to keep my present car too, trade it, or sell it myself):
1) Can I ask for my payments to fall within the second half of the month, regardless of the date I sign the paperwork?
2) What's the best way to make extra payments on the principal? Can I make any old extra payments I want? A little extra a month?
3) If I keep my car, and sell it myself later, can I use that money to make a substantial payment on my principal at that time without penalty?
I realize the answers may be specific to each lender, but loan paperwork is tricky! I want to know what to watch out for and ask.
You ought to be able to prepay as much as you want whenever you want, but double-check anyway.
I have definitely been given the option to pick my payment date before, as per question 1.
I have a question that is probably not worth it's own thread.
We are looking for a new-to-us used car, and I've seen several listed with less that 10K miles. In checking CarFacts, these 2009-2010 cars were owned by leasing companies.
Why would a company sell off such "new" cars ?
Should we be leary of them as possible pay-me-now or pay-me-later ?
Any comments or PM's would be appreciated
Now back to Cloud's car stuff....
I think you have to be leary of any used cars. Fleet cars have usually been driven pretty hard, by people who don't care about long term performance.
I drove a Mazda3 hatchback today--pretty nice car. Also looked at a VW GTI. Those are my 2d and 3d picks after the Juke. My local dealer said he would get 3 Jukes in October.
By expressing early interest you're likely to pay a premium, though.
Nissan Juke: 117.5 hp/litre, turbocharged
Mazda3 i model: 74 hp/litre "normally aspirated"
Mazda3 s model "upgrade": 68 hp/litre
VW GTI: 100 hp/litre, turbocharged
that's a possibilty I'm aware of yes. But I want to see the damn thing in person, before I make my final decision.
I may wait until a few more of the cars come in, say in December, 'cause I may be able to make a better deal. The car is so well priced and loaded in the first place, though, I think it's a good value for the money.
So, your numbers: are you equating more horsepower per liter = better? The Mazda3 with the 2.5 litre engine has 167 hp; the Juke has 188; and the GTI has 200 hp. In regular hp numbers.
being turbocharged, the Juke and the GTI both take premium fuel.
And you want it, damnit. :lol:
yeah. trying not to appear too desperate though.
Is it really necessary to drive a new car "gently" for a while to break it in? Some things I've read mention 600 miles, I believe. Eeek! It would take me about (calculates) . . . 4 months of regular driving to reach this number.
What's the purpose of this, and what systems are the most critical to treat gently?
No, that went out with sword fightin' & knickers, except take it easy on the brakes for the first few miles.
Here's an article from Popular Mechanics which supports that view Bruce. It does say to change the oil after 20 miles, not to put protectants on new vinyl interiors, and to apply 3m Paint Protection Film to the front painted surfaces. Hmm
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/saturday-mechanic-blog/how-to-break-in-a-new-carWell that's the kind of driving that I would put on the first 1K miles driven to your location.
I'm on the side of the comments, I think this guy is full of shit. He talks about the difference between regular(mineral) oil, and synthetic oil, like they are whole different animals. They aren't, they are both made up of mostly the same additives, the prime difference, besides price, being if the engine overheats for some reason, the synthetic oil will still work and not char.
As far as the ad for 3-M Clear Bra, yes it will prevent some stone chips in the clear coat over the life of the car. But clear coat chips are easy to touch up, and the Clear Bra will be several hundred dollars to have one cut for your vehicle applied. Otherwise it will look like hell.
Stick to the manufacturer's recommendations... not the salesman, the manufacturer.
well, I mostly ignored the stuff about the oil, since I'm not going to put anything different in there. Change it, yeah.
My present car shows more wear on the sides than the front. If I get the Juke I might invest in a car cover, since I have no garage, and it has a lot of non-metallic trim, which seems to suffer in my climate.
Re: Mud guard/flaps and floor mats
since dealers often add these, are these desirable/necessary/worth the money?
In particular, I thought floor mats were suspect because they catch under the pedals and cause safety problems. Yes?
Personally, if they aren't included, I wouldn't buy them.
But I think it's BS that floor mats wouldn't be included. Do they also charge extra for the wiper blades?
Floor mats didn't come with my Insight. When I finally tried to buy the factory mats they were no longer available.
I'd get the floor mats. The aftermarket ones usually suck, are cheap and DON'T EVER really fit right.
The best thing to do with the floor mats is to hang them vertically in your garage - carpet side facing the wall, btw - and put them back in the day before you sell the car.
vat is dis "garage" you speak ov?
so noted.
and if I don't have a lot of snow, ice, and salt to deal with, are mud flaps desirable?
Do you have a lot of mud to deal with?
not a lot. some, in the rainy season. Lots of dirt and rocks though
Does your car now have mud flaps? Are you happy with your car having/not having mud flaps?
Mud flaps cost extra, look a little ugly, and they reduce the aerodynamics of the car very slightly, but they also help protect it from pebble dings and mud splatter. I'm personally not a fan of them on a car, but there is no right or wrong answer.
Trucks should have them because they usually have larger and more open wheel wells and they help protect other cars on the road.
I think my car does. Not actually sure, hmm. will have to look.
kinda dumb, huh? I know it doesn't have the floor mats anymore, because they were moving around and bothering me. I took them out, and have no idea what I did with them--probably tossed them.
I think my car does. Not actually sure, hmm. will have to look.
Mud flaps that do something are standard on better cars. Better does not mean more expensive. Better is a car designed by engineers; not accountants. My every Honda came with flaps where necessary and standard.
Floor mats should never move about. Earlier mats had points that embed in the carpet. Newer mats attach to two posts located where the mat sits under the seat.
Many crappy car mats do not completely cover the floor. Sometimes I would buy black rubber 'truck' mats. Honda's had so much leg room that car mats were never large enough. A good car mat completely covers the rug and may roll up inches on each side. Simply remove the mat so that all leaves and dirt leave the car. No vacuum necessary. All environments - especially rain or snow - deposit dirt into a car. Any car mat that moves around - even 40 years ago - was completely defective.
Earlier mats had points that embed in the carpet. Newer mats attach to two posts located where the mat sits under the seat.
Our cars both have mats that have points that embed and one post under the seat. Should we worry that they're abnormal? Are they interracial?
MuSimply remove the mat so that all leaves and dirt leave the car. No vacuum necessary.
You don't have kids, do you?
OMG - Thats a frightening thought!
I gotta agree with tw on the car mats though. All my cars have had them where they are locked in place, any that use only the lil rubber things on the back to secure them were, at minimum worthless.
I checked my car and it has mud "guards" -- they're not flappy.
and dirty carpets. ;)
and dirty carpets.
So you can always smell where you have been.
Better than keeping a diary.
we got our first Juke yesterday. One of the salesmen drove it and loved it. Said it's wicked fast. looks pretty cool.. I just got a new demo, so I'll have to wait appx 2 months until I can get in one, ...unless someone sells mine.
are you planning to buy one? Why can't you drive the demo?(a bit confused)
They give him a car to use, and swap it every couple of months, just like the salesmen.
Since he just got a car, he won't have a chance to take a Juke for that long.
are you planning to buy one? Why can't you drive the demo?(a bit confused)
what bruce said. I will probably go take it around the block this afternoon. I was going to take one as a demo and give you a thorough review.
I built one online as if cost were irrelevant.
Turns out, it was relevant, but damn it was awesome.
Anxious to hear the report...cool looking car.
I get it (re: Jim); thanks.
As much as people are saying it's butt ugly, I still think it's a great little car for me. Seems to drive really fantastic.
Some people saying it's butt ugly is a good thing, that means it's got styling. When cars have styling people will like it, or not like it, unlike 90% of the bland blobs on the road that nobody notices.
spencer says it looks like a frog
yeah; it's gotten "frog" a lot. According to Nissan, the front is supposed to look like an alligator half submerged in the water. or something.
A sampling of the over the top "verbiage" from the reviews:
comically swollen wheel arches and taillights; puckerfish; sharp and nimble; the anti-box; lively and well-behaved; hoes a roe of its own; in-your-face city slicker; as if someone took a Mr. Potato Head design kit and handed the pieces to a Red Bull-addled toddler; quick, agile, athletic, tenacious; design anarchy; a pug dog dressed in an oversized studded collar; funny looking; like a VW Beetle trying to escape from a toad; sporty and spunky spirit; segment crossing mash up; carves up the road; weird mix of coupe and crossover; as hysterical as Oprah in a bikini, implants included; utterly distinctive and not entirely unpleasant; scrupulously avoids any hint of practicality;
I was horrified to learn the other day from one of my friends that she never turns to look over her shoulder when changing lanes. WTF?
Apparently, there's a "new" or non-traditional way to set your side mirrors that I had never heard of; different from what I was taught way back when. A little research shows this to be true--set your mirrors to a wider angle and you see the blind spot. Do you guys do this?
http://www.cartalk.com/content/features/mirrors/CarTalkMirrors.pdf
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I'm trying this now, and it takes some getting used to. For one thing, there's a lot of movement in the driver's mirror which you see out of the corner of your eye.
But I'll still look over my shoulder anyway! Do you guys do this?
YESSSSSSS
Whats the point of looking at your own car? You've rendered your mirrors ineffective and by the time you see anything its too late.
I was taught to set the side view mirror to begin where the rear ends. When done properly the two work in unison and virtually eliminate any blind spot.
I also still peek over my shoulder, even though I really don't have to do so.
I feel kinda dumb. New mirror settings; new CPR procedure.
I'm getting too old for all this new shit!
I'm getting too old for all this new shit!
Sometimes it is therapeutic to actually dial an old phone. Little click, click, clicks are so reassuring that the world still works normally.
I believe you still have a rotary phone set up at your place...
For some reason, I have no trouble imagining that in your "parlor"
Yes, I've always put my side mirrors so they start showing just where the view from the rearview mirror is ending. That always seemed to me to be the only logical way to do it.
yes, but I still look to double-check.
No, I don't look over my shoulder. I stay aware of where every car around me is at all times.
If you drive fast enough, you don't need any mirrors. You just look out the front.
Yeah, I think that's part of my success. :blush:
No, I don't look over my shoulder. I stay aware of where every car around me is at all times.
that's key. my dad taught me that very specifically when I was learning. Especially true on a motorcycle. I look into other people's side mirrors and try to tell if they're paying attention too. Also, in traffic, don't look at the car in front of you... look at the one in front if it.
I agree; awareness is key. Pay attention! But you still need to check!
Local dealer called and said they are getting a Juke -- one -- tomorrow and would I like to come look at it "before it sells."
Yes. yes I would! Don't know what color/trim, but I can't wait to see the damn thing in person. Seems like it's going to be a pretty hot item, so may have to wait awhile for a decent selection and deal. Met with my Credit Union loan officer today in a pre-pre-approval interview, and I think I'm good to go! (crossing my fingers)
Saw a juke in the flesh today and got a chance to drive it! Really a perfect car for me. They are trickling into dealers slowly. Will have to wait to get the exact one I want. (black or white SL w AWD and red interior trim)
I'm pretty amazed at the crap things people are doing with their car loans in general. I'm guilty of this also--in 2001 I bought a new car with my crappy credit and got a subprime 18% loan. With interest, I ended up paying twice the amount of the car. Now I know better.
Even on forums where people are supposedly trying to improve their financial situations, I see people buying too much car (if credit is bad, why are people buying $40K cars?); putting down the absolutely minimum down payment, thus putting themselves underwater immediately, having to buy gap insurance, leasing a car which never lets them have no monthly payments, trading in cars with underwater loans, thereby still paying interest on a car they don't even own. getting ridiculously long loan terms (why would you want to be making payments for six years, for crying out loud?) and focusing too much on monthly payments and not total amount owed. (But I got a sweet ride! and my payments are lower!).
I know I'm lucky in that I've managed to save a decent down payment., my car is not dying (even though it's 9 years old), and that I've managed to improve my credit scores and financial situation enough that I can probably get a decent loan, but I'm still left shaking my head at some of the things people will do to get wheels.
but I'm still left shaking my head at some of the things people will do to get wheels.
I have said this often. If one needs a loan to buy a car, he probably has no business buying that car. I will never understand why people borrow money to buy a car they have no business owning.
Because they need the car to get to work and earn the money to pay for the car, which beats sitting at home with no job and no money. Buying a new car is the way to get on the road with minimum cash, especially if you are mechanically challenged.
HA HA HA stop with he reality Bruce - those who live in their self-created alternate reality cannot understand.
Actually, I agree with tw on this. It makes a tremendous amount of sense to pay cash for a car. Better to be making payments into a savings account where you will have interest working FOR you than to be paying someone else and have even higher interest working AGAINST you. If that means making do with a shit car for years while you save up the cash to buy one outright, then so be it. This is coming from someone driving a 15 year old car. Not gonna buy another one until we have the money for it. And then when we do, we'll start saving for the next one right away.
Only way I'd buy a car with a loan is if the interest rate was 0%.
Define a "shit car" please.
I'm choosing to buy a new car rather than used, and a car that's a "step up" from my last one. But this makes sense to me, in my situation and my time of life. Keep the economy moving along, yeah. not saying that people shouldn't buy new cars, or get loans--just that people (me too!) need to be smarter about these things.
there are a lot of things I could be smarter about in my life, frankly
Actually, I agree with tw on this. It makes a tremendous amount of sense to pay cash for a car. Better to be making payments into a savings account where you will have interest working FOR you than to be paying someone else and have even higher interest working AGAINST you. If that means making do with a shit car for years while you save up the cash to buy one outright, then so be it. This is coming from someone driving a 15 year old car. Not gonna buy another one until we have the money for it. And then when we do, we'll start saving for the next one right away.
Only way I'd buy a car with a loan is if the interest rate was 0%.
Unless you can do your own maintenance and repairs, you'll spend more than you would financing a car, unless you can get something reliable. You're not going to get something reliable for a couple hundred bucks, so unless you can get a family hand me down or something, you have to buy a car that's going to cost serious money, at least a few grand. You'll have trouble saving that without a job, and you'll have trouble borrowing that without a job, but you need a car to keep a job.
Now the best financing deals are on new cars, even 0% in some rare cases. That's why I think it's best to go with a new, reliable car, with a warranty, so you can save for what you really want.
The problem with many people is they over buy, only concerned with the monthly nut, not the total deal. Also trading up every year or two, getting deeper in the red with every move, just because as time passes they get more credit. It's a reflection of our times and our values, the same ones that caused this recession and being owned by walmart/China.
Cloud, we are not talking about you, or your situation, we've drifted into new territory.
Well put Bruce. I think there is a HUGE difference between buying a new Hyundai versus a new Hummer or Mercedes.
I think it's fine to get a loan to buy a car or a house or anything... as long as you have a true understanding of what the loan charges make the final price of your purchase and can afford that price in the time you have specified you will repay it.
Unfortunately this is not the case too often. "Trading Up" when you still owe on your previous car -for example- often does not fit this criteria. But then, let's look at who's pushing this idea...
But -to go completely off-topic- I don't think this is the worst scourge right now. I think cellphones are the new cars..... Own up -who's family cellphone plan is more than their car payment? and how often do you "upgrade"? Hmmmm
Yeah Cloud, I'm not talking about you. I'm confident you have your head screwed on right with this purchase. You've given it a lot of thought, and I think it's a good car you are looking at.
Classic, for me, a shit car is a car that is so old, it costs about a grand a year in repairs to keep running reliably. Even at a grand a year, it's still much cheaper than buying a new car. Once the body rusts out, then it's over, but until then, you can keep a car going for much cheaper than buying new.
Bruce, you're right. The hard part of what I'm talking about is getting that first car. I inherited my grandfather's car when I started out, and got a few years out of it. Enough time to buy my first real car with the money I had been saving.
The other option is to spend a couple grand on a car that will cost a grand a year to maintain. Many don't have the funds for that.
Because they need the car to get to work and earn the money to pay for the car,
Yes, a home equity loan also makes no sense for same reasons. Rare exceptions may exist due to abnormal events. But we are not discussing the abnormal. We are discussing a majority who foolishly and repeatedly buy cars with loans.
Why would the exception need a car loan? To never waste money on car loans in the future. To get out of debt and never need a car loan in the future. An exception.
One can buy a Honda or Toyota for $4000. Why apply for a car loan for a $25,000 car (or a $41,000 Chevy Volt) when the owner can only afford $4000? Because he wants to pay more money for every future car?
Consumer Reports is full of inexpensive seven year old cars that are reliable.
Borrowing money to buy something that does not depreciate makes sense (ie a house). Borrowing money to create an income source makes sense (ie a business). Borrowing money to only remain in debt on something that loses value quickly makes little sense.
Why do so many have balances on credit cards? Same 'need'. Makes so sense. But then many (is it a majority?) also do that mistake.
Ironically (and this never made sense to me), many know this is illogical. And still do it. Why borrow money to almost double the cost of a product?
Classic, for me, a shit car is a car that is so old, it costs about a grand a year in repairs to keep running reliably.
Once I got rid of a new Ford, I never put anywhere near a grand per year into any car. That even includes the Chevy that required a new timing belt every 40,000 miles (+/- 500 miles). Driving a car for 12 and 14 years has been routine.
Probably my biggest maintenance expense was new exhaust pipes (and then a cement truck took out that car). BTW, did you know insurance will reimburse for recently replaced parts?
Classic, for me, a shit car is a car that is so old, it costs about a grand a year in repairs to keep running reliably. Even at a grand a year, it's still much cheaper than buying a new car. Once the body rusts out, then it's over, but until then, you can keep a car going for much cheaper than buying new.
A grand a year? I wish. I've put over $2000 into my (college student) daughter's "shit car" just in the last few months. It cost about $4000 when she bought it a couple years ago. (without my consult)
If I look at the numbers now, I think I would have been better off spending more and getting a loan for a better car. There would have been far less worry about her safety. The "shit car" is now breaking down more frequently and needs more repair than she can afford. The money saved for the newer car has already been spent on repairing the "shit car."
Conversely, I could have had and planned in advance for a fixed payment instead of having the "shit car" breakdown and/or need repairs at inopportune times where it requires large sums of money on hand to fix it.
The grand a year is an average. You might put 2 grand in one year, and just have to do oil changes the next. You also have to be intelligent about it and not buy a Pinto, for example.
And monster, nice try with the attempt to go way off topic on cell phones. You're absolutely right, or course, but that's too far of topic.
I don't know that it's realistic to require everyone to pay cash for a car. Most people do not have 25K they can slap down, even if they save for years. Especially since i think it's more important and essential to have an emergency fund of a few months' expenses. With that you can walk away from a job if you need to ("fuck you money") save yourself from being homeless, pay insurance deductibles and medical expenses if you're injured, etc. That should be everyone's first saving goal. You don't want to spend your entire wad on the car.
Unfortunately, in most places in the US, a car is a necessity. I know I went without one for 5 years, taking the bus to work everyday in 100 degree heat in the summers--absolutely miserable! I finally bought a car through a windfall. I'm better prepared now, thank FSM.
In addition, not everyone can handle the stress of dealing with "shit cars." I'm terrible at car stuff, as you guys know. I freak out whenever my car's in the shop or unavailable. I live alone. Having an up to date, safe, and reasonably reliable vehicle is a requirement.
I hear you, glatt. I was giving my experience. FWIW - I've owned a grand total of 1 new car in my entire life. I will never do that again without money to burn. (which will be never, given my new life situation)
I can still see where it is basically impossible for some/many to buy a car outright without a loan. Too many do NOT have the discipline to force themselves to save that monthly amount either. I'm not saying its right, just that it is.
And I think monster is more right than not. For example, I know of a family that spends over $600 a month on their cell phones and a couple hundred more on their TV/internet. They have the latest phones all the time and even their youngest kids <10yrs old have phones.
Yes, between phones internet and tv, they spend about $1000 a month.
They are losing their home. The foreclosure should take place mid December.
I don't know that it's realistic to require everyone to pay cash for a car.
Oh, there is no requirement, and there never should be. I'm just talking about what makes sense in a perfect world. Every situation is going to be different, and everyone is going to have different priorities.
I don't know that it's realistic to require everyone to pay cash for a car. Most people do not have 25K they can slap down, even if they save for years. Especially since i think it's more important and essential to have an emergency fund of a few months' expenses.
That is the point. One should be saving for many years so as to slap down $25K.
The emergency fund is not a bank account. The emergency fund is credit cards. Just another reason why no one should ever have a balance on their cards. Otherwise they have even spent their 'emergency fund'.
If one does not save that $25K for a new car, then the new car ends up costing closer to $40K. And that one remains a debtor his entire life. I have friends who love this. Therefore they do little work. And reap serious incomes from so many who never learn how to save that $25K over many years.
We can all appreciate your experience with a 'shit' car. But in your case, it was not the car. It was a mechanic who could not think for himself - kept replacing a perfectly good computer rather than the obviously defective valve.
I do have an advantage. I learned in the early 70s by not just fixing the cars. But learning why failures happen and how to make sure my mechanic has basic intelligence. Your bad experience was directly traceable to a mechanic who did not know how to think. Not due to the car.
One solution to a bad mechanic - never have a car that fails. Therefore start in places like Consumer Reports.
The emergency fund is not a bank account. The emergency fund is credit cards.
Absolutely, positively NOT! Credit is great to have in an emergency, but not as your sole resource. Plus, you need to have some extra cash for periodic and expected expenses that are not emergencies; vet bills, new tires, gifts. Why pay interest on this stuff? I'm sorry, but I don't think that's a wise strategy.
furthermore, you cannot expect to get credit cards if you pay cash for everything. It's a screwed up system, but that's the way it is.
http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/07/28/ten-big-mistakes-8-credit-card-as-emergency-fund/Credit is great to have in an emergency, but not as your sole resource. Plus, you need to have some extra cash for periodic and expected expenses that are not emergencies; vet bills, new tires, gifts. Why pay interest on this stuff?
One does not pay interest on those daily, weekly, and monthly expenses. Vet bills, tires, new exhaust system, etc are normal expenses also paid for in cash (or in less than 30 days on a credit card). One must meet those expenses while saving $25K for a car. Those are not emergencies. Those are normal obligations that everyone must meet while also saving money for a new car.
Emergency fund of last resort is credit cards. Other emergency funds may also exist - investments. Which is why some investments must not be locked in - must be liquid.
One who is meeting his financial obligations meets those daily obligations while also saving $25K for the next car. Anyone who cannot pay for a car is simply paying for the car twice - and will always remain a debtor. Those people need car loans due personal financial mismanagement.
Exact same problem with credit card balances. If one cannot pay for it, then one did not need it. Or it is an 'emergency of last resort' meaning that all other luxuries - a deli sandwich for lunch - are no longer permitted.
Brown bagger – the guy who does not want to spend $50K for a $25K car.
I suspect that most people need to buy their first car on credit. You need a car as soon as you start work and probably don't have the cash to buy even a clunker.
But if you buy a decent car and don't extend the loan payment out forever, then you should be able to buy your second car for cash - if you've been putting the same money into savings once the loan has been paid off.
that's the best way--in theory. Has anyone here actually done that? I'm pretty proud of myself that I've managed to save up nearly 50% down in cash.
furthermore, you cannot expect to get credit cards if you pay cash for everything. It's a screwed up system, but that's the way it is.
The $300 brake job is not an emergency. That is a normal expense in life. We just don't know which normal surprise will happen. But we know a $300 surprise will often pop up - normally. Because I never have car loans, I now have cash for those other routine obligations.
Looks like I will be spending $hundreds soon to fly to a funeral. Also not an emergency. Just another daily obligation. Some days, life costs $10 a day. Other days, it costs $hundreds. And none of those expenses are an emergency.
Meanwhile, I also must be saving $25K for the next car while meeting all those other obligations.
A credit card is an excellent emergency fund. A second function: it also replaces checks and money clips. But only if paid off in 30 days. It not paid in 30 days, the expense must be a real emergency. A $300 brake failure is a routine obligation in life. We don't know which surprise will happen but we know these surprised will occur routinely - another normal obligation.
that's the best way--in theory. Has anyone here actually done that?
I have very few (if any) friends who have car loans. What Pete has posted is what most everyone I know did.
Saving 50% for the next car is a good start. Then the car after that is paid for without any car loans. The car after that is easily bought AND your have another $25K of spare cash. Maybe it takes longer. But the ultimate goal is to always buy a card without any loans. Some can do it on the next car. For others, it may take two cars. But to have money means owning cars without car loans.
well, you have richer/smarter friends than I do I guess. I'll be satisfied with an arrangement where I start out not upside down in the first place, get a low interest rate, a short loan term, and am able to pay it off as quick as I can.
that's the best way--in theory. Has anyone here actually done that? I'm pretty proud of myself that I've managed to save up nearly 50% down in cash.
Yup. When I was young I read in Consumer Reports that the best way to get the most for your money with a car was to buy a good one new, and then run the wheels off it. So that's what Mrs. Z and I did. Every car after the first has been bought for with cash.
Cloud battles the Cartels.
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yep; I like the donut one better tho!
yep; I like the donut one better tho!
are you a cop?
no. I'm a Valkyrie.
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Interesting debate among prospective Juke owners about the center armrest. The lack of one, that is. Some are ruling the vehicle out because of it, I'm left scratching my head, because I never even use mine unless I'm on a long trip.
After some thought, I realized:
--80% of my driving is within town, not on the highway
--I'm right handed, and live in the States where the wheel is on the left side
--My right hand is either gripping the wheel at the top (12 o'clock); or gripping in a more relaxed hold on the center spoke of the steering wheel (3:00)
--Therefore, I'm not resting my right hand or arm off the wheel
--if anything, I'm resting my left elbow on the door, while my right hand does most of the steering work
--My present car is an automatic (so don't need my right hand down by the gear shaft)
so it's not really an issue for me. Maybe if I had a long highway commute it would be. Would the lack of a center armrest put you off?
I don't use it, except to hold papers and shit. If you find out later you wish you had one, you can add an aftermarket item. But it sounds like you wouldn't use it anyway.
I use mine as an armrest on long trips and, like Bruce, to put crap in. I'd prefer one, but I don't know what other storage options there are. It certainly isn't that big a deal to me.
I think it completely depends on the angle of the seat. In Mr. Clod's compact car, I don't have one and don't need one. My arms are fairly bent and held upward a bit to be on the steering wheel. But in the minivan, the steering wheel is lower, and farther away, as is typical for a larger vehicle. My arms are held almost straight out. In the minivan I can't drive without the armrest.
I use the center armrest in my Avalanche all the time, but I have long arms and usually need to rest my elbows on something to prevent fatigue. Also, I store all kinds of stuff in it, from drinks to cell phone to my notebook and pen and crap like that.
The Avalanche isn't designed too well with regards to cupholders, no ashtray (I quit smoking anyway), no keyway on the passenger door or tailgate (cheapskates!), no power receptacles in the backseat or rear cargo area and generally poor dashboard layout. I still like it though.
I agree with clobble.
If the seat is upright, like in a cube or a juke, you may not notice it not having an armrest. In the Altima, where you're pretty well reclined, it would be really weird if it didn't have one.
I think it completely depends on the angle of the seat. In Mr. Clod's compact car, I don't have one and don't need one.
Many neat features in one car become distressingly obvious once the 'new' car had been driven a while.
For example, there must be someplace to properly rest the left foot. New Pontiac became a problem after many days because there was no left foot support.
How headlights are turned on in Chevy's would always get me confused. Headlights and highbeam flashing must all be on one control.
How a radio is setup. That Pontiac had so many buttons. Could not find the volume control without taking my eyes off the road and searching radio buttons. Same for station selection - not the preset controls - how to tune any frequency. At night, I would just keep pushing buttons until something worked.
A C300 Series Mercedes drove me crazy. Everytime when signaling a turn, instead that lever activated cruise control. Recently was asking a new Mercedes owner (her previous car was a Volvo 60 series) what she did not like. Exact same thing. She also kept turning on that cruise control because it was located to be confused with turn signals.
A light to focus on a paper (or map) before you? Often the newer dome light can be too dim. A map reading light that so many do not notice until that one dark night.
Adjustable steering wheel so that you can see every light on the dashboard.
Can you find the window switch (or handle) without taking eyes of the road? Or one problem I so hated in one of those Pontiacs. It would lock all doors as soon as the car started moving (which I did not want). Door unlock switch was buried up front on the door behind the dash board. Could not be seen. Had to go feeling for the switch.
Dash board up so high as to obstruct vision of items in front of the front bumper. A problem often found in cars with lowest performance engines (ie V8s).
Rear window visibility obstructed. Well, Volvos even have a dashboard switch so that rear seat headrests drop down. A kludge solution to a bad body design.
Tinted windows - or how to get into crashes because other drivers could not see your eyes.
Put the car in neutral. Without using brakes, how does the car come to a stop. Only better cars will roll to a stop so gentle that you cannot feel when wheels actually stop spinning.
Superior cars have engines so quiet that sometimes you do not know if the engine is running. With the engine running, try to start it. Only better cars will not engage the starter motor if the car is already running.
If a stick, then get moving without ever touching the accelerator petal. How easy determines quality and performance of the drive train.
Close each door only with your pinky. Superior cars that end up costing less money and last longer will close with less push from that little finger. One of the worst cars in this category was a Jaguar.
Some simple tests to categorize any new car.
the Jukes are few on the ground so far, and most of the ones in so far are not the ones I want. So I "ordered" the specific car I want from my closest dealer. No deposit, no obligation, but it's in my name--and obviously no chance of big discounts or incentives either. But, I'm still happy if I get the exact car I want by the end of the year. (supposed to come in December).
A top level trim Juke SL CVT/AWD, white, with black leather seats and red interior trim. ooooooh! (pic from HonestJohn so it European plates)
not counting my chickens yet though!
no, but you made the decision and went for it.
Crazy question, I know, but what's the listed gas mileage?
depends on the drivetrain, but EPA city 25/hwy 30. it's a turbo, so takes premium fuel tho
We'll probably be looking for an AWD vehicle of some sort to replace my wife's Subaru within the next year or so. That get's about 26 mpg, so it's in the same range.
It looks very good in white, good choice. :thumb:
Did you get the rear roof spoiler? I saw that today and it looks cool.
well on the one I pseudo-ordered, yes I did. I sorta got talked into it, so I'm glad you think it looks good.
well on the one I pseudo-ordered, yes I did. I sorta got talked into it, so I'm glad you think it looks good.
Why spend $400 on something that has no purpose, obstructs vision, and says the owner is so easily manipuated as to ... well I also remember fashion designers said guys should wear four inch platform shoes.
Everytime I see a spoiler, I see someone who can be manipulated even by Karl Rove.
yeah, but you're a wanker with zero social skills, so who gives a fuck what you see? No disrespect, of course....
Perhaps. But I haven't spent a dime yet, and am under no obligation to buy from these people. You want to see what I WON'T spend any money on, and what I told them I wouldn't even consider? I'm aware the spoiler is non-functional, but this crap? $2000 worth! (shakes head)
ADM stands for Additional Dealer Markup
no shit.
and tw.... the spoiler makes the car look better esthetically.... and therefore serves a purpose. when you sell this car, it will have more eyeball, and hence more value.
it also gives you something else to tie your Christmas tree off to.
That won't fly with tw's Mr Spock routine. :haha:
the back end of this car is kind of squashed, in comparison with the front, so I think the spoiler gives it a more balanced look. I'm quite capable of refusing if I didn't want it. I wouldn't say it's functional in an aerodynamic sense, because I strongly doubt it.
aes·thet·ic --- adj
a : of, relating to, or dealing with aesthetics or the beautiful.
b : artistic
c : pleasing in appearance : attractive
Cloud knows. ;)
and tw.... the spoiler makes the car look better esthetically.... and therefore serves a purpose. when you sell this car, it will have more eyeball, and hence more value.
And four inch platform shoes worn by males made them more popular. Complete nonsense.
White wall tires were another scam. Many paid more because advertising told them what to think. More white meant girls would swoon.
True. Some are so vain as to do what fashion designers order them to do. Communism and dictatorships also love such people. See so many of them in Apple's 1982 Macintosh commercial.
It is a car. Rear visibility is already bad - dangerous. So we spend $hundreds to make it worse? Then put obstructions to make snow and ice removal harder? Amazing how many must do what they are told rather than do what makes common sense.
Spend $400 on a spoiler to be popular? To increase its resale value by $40? Borrow money with interest to pay for something that does nothing but depreciate? Well some egos need that spoiler.
A spoiler has negative aerodynamic effects. It is on race cars so that rear tires will grip the road better (and tires wear out faster) when the car is at 120 and 150 MPH. It does nothing useful at 60 and 70 MPH. And are often so badly designed to do nothing even at above 100 MPH. But it says who can be so easily manipulated; cannot think for themselves.
Even proposed race cars (planned for 2014 and later) are eliminating that ugly wing. Suggests what fashion designers will tell us what we must all have in a few years.
What do obsolete technology cars have? Chrome. White walls. Tiny windows. Noisy engines. Hood ornaments. And spoilers.
Don't forget the longhorns. A fuzzy rug on the dashboard. And big ass woofers. Also so necessary so that others will respect you.
Spoiler = ugly && a driver starved for self-esteem.
But don't let me discourage you from spending $hundreds on something that does nothing.
tw drives an appliance, practical, economical, reliable.
He's appalled that everyone else doesn't, also.
Doesn't know, you are what you drive. :haha:
White wall tires were another scam. Many paid more because advertising told them what to think. More white meant girls would swoon.
Thing is, the girls watch those ads too, and a good many of them do swoon.
All bling is sexual display, like a peacock's tail. Look at me, baby, I must be soooo loaded if I can squander money on this glorified toy. You know you want me.
Not necessarily, I know a lot of guys, myself included, that add or subtract items to achieve the look they want, without regard to what anyone else thinks.
maybe you're past breeding age, Bruce ... ;)
:bolt:
Oh yes, at least I hope so. :eek: But that's what Hot Rodding and Customizing is all about, and I've been into that since I was 12. There are millions of us, although many are pussy whipped into minivans.
this amuses me. You should see the shitstorm I caused when I suggested that the spoiler wasn't "functional."
Of course it's functional! It makes the air flow down for better aerodynamics! Uh, no, not unless you're on a racetrack or going over 125 miles an hour. You're wrong! You're just a girl!
If I cared what people thought, I wouldn't be buying this car anyway. I'll gladly entertain opinions and advice, but will make up my own mind in the end.
No vision obstruction....in fact it may improve it by shading that back glass a bit. also, you can't say the spoiler will ad $40 of resale value. If it is being sold privately, it's a whole overall picture that sells the car. appearance MATTERS, trust me.
Nice pics, Jim, thank you!
I was trying to find a full profile pic so that I could evaluate how the spoiler affects its overall appearance. Couldn't find a decent one!
My opinion is that the spoiler really isn't adding any additional value to the aesthetics of this car. In fact I think it takes some away. It looks half thought out and cheap to me.
I like the spoiler in this case. Makes it look less froggy.
Thanks Clod. I admit I didn't go much farther than the first image Google page, but I get easily discouraged. The shorter ones on the white and green cars don't look so bad, but why are they different?
Well you're welcome for my opinion anytime, but it was Bruce who found the pictures. ;)
LOL. I wonder why I did that.
Oh I see, you are right under his post.
:smack:
No vision obstruction....in fact it may improve it by shading that back glass a bit.
So that is the spoiler for this car?
Never Mind.
So that is the spoiler for this car?
Never Mind.
you were picturing one of those silly wing things?
So that is the spoiler for this car?
Never Mind.
So you had no idea what you were banging on about? Well what a shock that is. :rolleyes:
Why buy one, when they are so easy to fabricate. :lol:
excellent. I'mm'a have hector make one for my Windstar (which is bright red with chrome flames in the front wings :lol:)
you were picturing one of those silly wing things?
If it does not look like that, then is it even a spoiler? I am repeatedly amazed how many think that thing on the trunk (and what appears to be another spoiler below it) is 'cool'.
At one point, I could not find any decent car with a stick that did not have some stupid spoiler on the trunk. Some salesmen trying to tell me it was cool. Maybe if I was so dumb as to be told what to believe.
Some 'wings' in that location were designed to channel air across the rear window. To clear road dirt and maintain visibility. And did not cost $400. Have not seen those for at least a decade.
Saw same thing on some mid-1990 Honda Civics. But never heard anyone call that a spoiler. Never knew that thing on a Juke also was a 'spoiler'. Reminds me of fins on 1957 Plymouths and Chevys. Well those owners got their fins for free.
Some 'wings' in that location were designed to channel air across the rear window. To clear road dirt and maintain visibility. And did not cost $400. Have not seen those for at least a decade.
They used to be pretty popular on station wagons, where the rear window gets filthy. They even incorporated them into the roof rack sometimes.
Wait a minute - that kludged spoiler. Isn't that a nissan maxima? UT did you pimp out the cellar car?
Nevar!!!
What we found is that some rear bike racks don't work if there's a spoiler on the trunk, making the Cellar Car the car of choice for that work.
Also the Cellar Car was recently above 100 MPH for the first time, possibly in its life. It was brief, just to see how it would fare. The rear tyres did not lose traction. But IMO tw is right and an upgraded suspension would be a better bet than a spoiler, 100% of the time.
But the Juke spoiler is not a spoiler, but just the usual [strike]Nissan[/strike] car makers trick of putting everything into a Premium package so the dealers can order 19 cars with the Premium package and one for the cheap-ass buyers who tenaciously refuse such items.
still waiting for my car. In the meantime, however, I invite your comments on the best kind of oil to use.
I hear people arguing passionately about the "dino v. synthetic" issue. I'm a bit confused, but seems to me after some cursory research that dino is okay for the first couple of years, then switching to synthetic may be better later. Keep in mind that the car I'm planning on buying is a turbo.
still waiting for my car. In the meantime, however, I invite your comments on the best kind of oil to use.
The difference is that conventional oil feature larger molecules. These were especially important because poorly machined engines contained lots of debris and blowby materials. Synthetic was only used in, for example, jet engines where the oil was not contaminated by burned fuel.
Larger oil molecules made the debris less destructive.
Machining to tenths of thousands of inches and other innovations made synthetics more practical. Oil that was once so fully contaminated in 4000 miles (or 500 miles in the 1950s) is now cleaner even after 8000 miles. So the advantage of larger molecules is no longer as significant.
did you ever get your Juke, Cloud?
I got one yesterday, but I forgot about the spoiler, and of course, the SL I took does not have it. I walked past an SV in bright blue this morning that had it, and was reminded how much better it looks with it. meh.. I still like it a lot.
no, the too-long wait and the numerous reported problems gave me cold feet. I finally got a RAV4 (reported in a separate thread).
Still talk to the Juke people. They have CEL problems, bad fit-and-finish squeaking problems, weird engine problems too. But they all say it's fun to drive!
