Separated by a Common Language?
Sometimes, when I'm pootling about, I play with numbers in my head. Other times, language. And one of those language things is the UK/USA differences. We all know about the word differences and the strange pronunciations, and even the occasional grammar quirk, but it's so much more than that. I marvel at (and enjoy) how few things I would say the same way when talking to Brits or Americans. More often than not, there are several words that mean the same thing, and we all know all the meanings, but each country has a different word of preference. Rarely a sentence goes by that doesn't have something in it -and, I think, that's what marks us expats out as Brits (and Aussies) -as much as if not more than the accent- and is maybe why some Americans get confused between the two, when to us our accents couldn't be much more different. Maybe.
Anyway, I keep thinking I should share this with those of you who are interested in this sort of thing using real life examples (those who aren't please move on now, I'll take the "boring!" comments as read...)
(I'm betting the Americans will still be able to spot many Anglicisms in my writing -I haven't gotten ( ;) )to the native level of expertise yet! And I'm sure there will be regional differences in both countries, please don't take offence if I neglected yours, although I'd be very interested to hear about it)
---
I just baked a birthday cake. My oven is electric, so I went over to the range (cooker) to turn it on to preheat. After checking there was nothing on the cooktop (hob/stove), I set it to 350F (Gas mark 5, something in centigrade). Then I went to wash my hands under the faucet (tap).
I may have been here 10 years and generally think in American, but I cook in British. So I got out my kitchen scales rather than my set of measuring cups to make sure I got the right amount of each ingredient.
I was making a sponge cake (like a heavier yellow cake), so I weighed the eggs first, then set them on one side. I weighed out the same amount of butter and of sugar (it would have been caster as opposed to granulated sugar if i was in the UK). Then I beat them together. No need to warm the butter because -being European- we keep the butter in use out of the fridge) Next, I added the eggs. I did take the eggs from the fridge, I would have done in the UK too, but interesting to note that in the UK, eggs are generally not refridgerated in the store (shop) -or weren't when I left on 2001, I don't know if other Brits refridgerate them at home or not. The eggs were actually brown, which is the norm to a Brit, but American eggs are more likely to be white. But we're not doing too badly here on the language differences.
I whisked in the eggs, being careful not to let the batter (mixture) curdle. Then I weighed out the same amount of self-rising flour (self-raising), it should be noted here that it is more the norm in the US to use general purpose (plain) flour and add baking powder. I added some cocoa powder to the flour, then sifted those onto the batter. I folded them in to prevent the air being beaten out again, added some semi-sweet chocolate chips (just chocolate chips to Brits) and then transferred the mixture to the cake pan (tin). The pan is a solid circle, not the bundt style that would be used for coffee cakes. (To Americans, a coffee cake is a cake designed to be eaten with coffee -more than likely cinammon or lemon flavo(u)red and drizzled with icing (which is the Brit term -would you merkins call that white drizzle icing, frosting, drizzle or something entirely different?)- to Brits, a coffee cake would generally be a cake flavored with coffee).
Well, the cake is now in the oven. When the pots are washed, it will be American-style, rinsed in hot water after the soap, and left to air dry. We used to do that in the UK too, but Brit visitors still don't rinse the soap off and want to dry them with a tea-towel (kitchen towel).
Newsflash! the cake is ready! When pressed lightly, It rebounds, it is no longer making a "clicking" noise, and when stuck with a toothpick (pricked with a cocktail stick) the stick comes away clean.
When the cake is cooled, I will fill it with chocolate buttercream -same weight of butter to powdered/confectioner's sugar (icing sugar), flavo(u)red with melted baker's unsweetened chocolate (cooking chocolate), and then it will be frosted (iced) it to look like a target with nerf darts in it. I will make the frosting with powdered sugar, food color (colour) and water.
The cake will be eaten with forks (only posh Brits use forks -and then they have special cake forks for the job) ....yup, for once the Brits are the ones who use their fingers and the Americans silverware/flatware (cutlery). :lol:
very interesting. Some comments:
--I would call the drizzle on coffee cake icing
--Brits. . . don't rinse the soap off pans?
--frosted layer cakes are too messy to eat with your fingers!
Yeah, I wanted to call it icing, but just wondered if that was the Brit in me fighting for recognition?
No, not in the main. The dishes really don't taste soapy -maybe the soap is different, but as someone who is allergic to soap, I've always rinsed, so i'm all American on that one. but go visit an American Expats in the UK board, and that's one of their major grumbles :lol:
British frosting is thinner on top, so less messy, and cakes are genrally a little more solid. But my family fancied themselves as posh, so I'm 50:50 on the fork thing. My MIL used to take the piss out of me back in the UK-for being posh and asking for a fork- but when she came over here and was the only one eating with fingers, we were all amused
Why are eggs measured instead of just counted and why is the cake making a "clicking" noise in the first place?
Eggs are all different sizes and hence volumes. It is actually more accurate to weigh all your ingredients. a packed cup of flour is significantly heavier than a loose cup.
A large egg is about 2 oz. volume, but ex large or Jumbo or medium throw your recipe off.
3 eggs is sort of meaningless when you compare 3 medium eggs to 3 jumbo eggs.
Eggs are all different sizes and hence volumes. It is actually more accurate to weigh all your ingredients. a packed cup of flour is significantly heavier than a loose cup.
A large egg is about 2 oz. volume, but ex large or Jumbo or medium throw your recipe off.
3 eggs is sort of meaningless when you compare 3 medium eggs to 3 jumbo eggs.
That is why sometimes in recipes, they call for small, medium, or large eggs.
The crazy thing is, so much of this stuff is regional even within the US. Just for example:
My oven is electric, so I went over to the range (cooker) to turn it on to preheat. After checking there was nothing on the cooktop (hob/stove), I set it to 350F (Gas mark 5, something in centigrade). Then I went to wash my hands under the faucet (tap).
I would never say range or cooker, the thing as a whole and the inside part are both the oven, and the top burners are the stove. Also, I would wash my hands "in the sink," I wouldn't refer to the faucet at all.
(To Americans, a coffee cake is a cake designed to be eaten with coffee -more than likely cinammon or lemon flavo(u)red and drizzled with icing (which is the Brit term -would you merkins call that white drizzle icing, frosting, drizzle or something entirely different?)-
To me, icing is the kind that is 1.) always white, and 2.) made with pure sugar and little else, so when it dries it is somewhat hard and can flake off. Frosting is the fluffy stuff that goes on cupcakes and can't be drizzled. But I would definitely never call any of it "drizzle," as that borders on obscene. :) And while I wouldn't be taken aback at a cinnamon-flavored coffee cake that didn't actually contain any coffee, I would scoff at a lemon cake being called coffee cake. That's always lemon cake. Also, we call it "food coloring," never just "food color."
But again, this is all just how it is down in Texas. It's totally different up north, as I'm sure you know.
My mother was European, but learned her English (and cooking) in the UK. Your recipe brought back a smile and fond childhod memories. She did use measuring cups as scales were not that easy to get here at the time. ;)
Forks for cake = posh :P
Or ... means you're eating out. Only times I eat cake with a fork (including gataeux) is at a party or in a cafe. Dad used to always eat cake with a fork, even at home. But it just wouldn't occur to me to use a fork at home.
Next, I added the eggs. I did take the eggs from the fridge, I would have done in the UK too, but interesting to note that in the UK, eggs are generally not refridgerated in the store (shop) -or weren't when I left on 2001, I don't know if other Brits refridgerate them at home or not.
I understand that when a chicken lays an egg, it has an unsightly coating on it that prevents bacteria from entering the semi-porous shell. So the egg will stay fresh without refrigeration. The egg producers have found that consumers like to buy clean looking eggs, so this coating is washed off. The egg can now spoil faster, and should be refrigerated.
Do American eggs look cleaner than you remember Brit eggs looking?
Ours sometimes have bit of gunk and feathers.
Why are eggs measured instead of just counted and why is the cake making a "clicking" noise in the first place?
I think the clicking is bubbling -a sign that it's still slightly liquid and not done yet... I dunno, it was just a thing I was taught and I've found that it works. If you take it out before then, even if the stick is coming out clean, it might well be soggy in the middle
Do American eggs look cleaner than you remember Brit eggs looking?
not really, once they'd started putting the "egg mark" on them. But they had much shorter sell by/use by dates
I would never say range or cooker, the thing as a whole and the inside part are both the oven, and the top burners are the stove. Also, I would wash my hands "in the sink," I wouldn't refer to the faucet at all.
Most Brits, however, would use cooker, I think, and most Americans would not. I do find Americans have a greater range of terms for this appliance.
Yes, I would also say "in the sink" but if asked to specify which bit of the sink, to a Brit I'd say tap, to an American faucet.
I wonder if the coffee cake think is due to the Germanic influence up here?
Ours sometimes have bit of gunk and feathers.
Are they refrigerated at the supermarket, now?
Nope; they're still stacked in boxes and shelves.
The crazy thing is, so much of this stuff is regional even within the US. Just for example:
I would never say range or cooker, the thing as a whole and the inside part are both the oven, and the top burners are the stove. Also, I would wash my hands "in the sink," I wouldn't refer to the faucet at all.
But do you say "tap water?" I do.
To me, icing is the kind that is 1.) always white, and 2.) made with pure sugar and little else, so when it dries it is somewhat hard and can flake off. Frosting is the fluffy stuff that goes on cupcakes and can't be drizzled. But I would definitely never call any of it "drizzle," as that borders on obscene. :) And while I wouldn't be taken aback at a cinnamon-flavored coffee cake that didn't actually contain any coffee, I would scoff at a lemon cake being called coffee cake. That's always lemon cake. Also, we call it "food coloring," never just "food color."
But again, this is all just how it is down in Texas. It's totally different up north, as I'm sure you know.
When I worked in a bakery 'drizzle' was a verb. Icing was 'drizzled.' Drizzle wasn't usually a noun.
Coffee cakes of any variety or flavor were typically yeasted, slightly sweet breads, usually with nuts or cinnamon, and meant to be eaten with coffee. Much more bread like than cake like. never a pound cake or lemon cake.
Bundt cakes were made in a ring shaped pan because the batter was especially liquid and would not bake evenly in a conventional pan.
you do realize that the name of this thread is the name of a popular blog on the same topic, right? (although from a reverse perspective; American linguist in the UK). Just in case you don't, here is a link to its food/cooking posts:
http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com/search/label/food%2Fcooking
Yes, I would also say "in the sink" but if asked to specify which bit of the sink, to a Brit I'd say tap, to an American faucet.
My mom's mom would say spigot.
Coffee cake must have those little cinnamon crumb things, and the icing on it it more like a glaze.
But do you say "tap water?" I do.
Yes, but that's to differentiate between that and the filtered water. The faucet is the actual silver piece of hardware, the "tap" is referring to where the water comes from in a more general sense. If the water were dirty, I'd say, "there's dirt, coming right out of the tap! Turn on the faucet, and you'll see it."
you do realize that the name of this thread is the name of a popular blog on the same topic, right? (although from a reverse perspective; American linguist in the UK). Just in case you don't, here is a link to its food/cooking posts:
Nope, and I could (couldn't) care less....
It's a famous quote from George Bernard Shaw and predates the interwebs by quite some time...
My mom's mom would say spigot.
I've heard spigot used a lot too -I just forgot about it! Is it regional?
These is what comes to mind when I hear spigot...and it's the one on the outside of the house.
Well, the cake is now in the oven. When the pots are washed, it will be American-style, rinsed in hot water after the soap, and left to air dry. We used to do that in the UK too, but Brit visitors still don't rinse the soap off and want to dry them with a tea-towel (kitchen towel).
By the time I was old enough to help out, my parents had a dishwasher, but I still learned how to wash dishes 'properly' from my grandmother. She taught me that the right way to do it is to first put the kettle on,* so that after you've set the dishes in the drainer, you can pour boiling water over them in order to kill any lingering germs. My grandmother did not have OCD. This is just the way things were done. I doubt many Americans would do that today, but we would run some clean water over dishes to get the soap off. When I've seen English people not doing that, I must admit, I've been [more than] a little uneasy.
You people leave the soap on your dishes? Why?
I dunno, I think it's insane too.... i just didn't realize i wasn't the only one to rinse them off 'til i moved here and ancountered Americans in the Uk complaining about it! :lol:
don't care about the name; just thought you might find the blog interesting. I remembered that I had a blog bookmarked, but not what it was called, and when I found it, I'm like, oh!
lol @ "washing up machine" for dishwasher
These is what comes to mind when I hear spigot...and it's the one on the outside of the house.
properly called a "hose bibb" or "sillcock"
All three of "spigot", "hose bibb", and "sillcock" sound like terrible insults.
That hose bibb at the deli rung up my order wrong!
All three of "spigot", "hose bibb", and "sillcock" sound like terrible insults.
That hose bibb at the deli rung up my order wrong!
Well, it is plumbers we're talking about...
Well, it is plumbers we're talking about...
"I need a 6 inch nipple."
Ineed a new ballcock.
I read "washing-up-machine" in books but I've never heard it called anything other than a dishwasher.
I was wondering whether or not to write about Hector's birthday party -if there was much material in that. I decided not, but then one of the parents must've known because he brought us a bag of zucchini (courgettes) :lol:
Here's the cake, btw
(It's a nerf birthday party)
.
I've heard spigot used a lot too -I just forgot about it! Is it regional?
I think it's more generational... an old fashioned term.
Here's the cake, btw
(It's a nerf birthday party)
.
monster, for someone who doesn't like to shop, you sure have fine domestic skills.
I think the whole purpose of this thread was to make us want cake.
In Colorado the "oven" is just called the hot box, or sometimes tandoor.
And in the kitchen, the water comes out of the dingus. In the bathroom it's called a dongus if it's in the washbasin and a dong if it's in the keeler.
In Colorado the "oven" is just called the hot box, or sometimes tandoor.
And in the kitchen, the water comes out of the dingus. In the bathroom it's called a dongus if it's in the washbasin and a dong if it's in the keeler.
You've got to get out more. :haha:
Are they refrigerated at the supermarket, now?
As Dani says - nope. We get them from the local butcher and they sit proudly on display behind the counter in large egg trays. You have to bring your own eggbox (carton?) as they're local farm eggs and although they're obviously sorted and stamped they are not packed. And yes, they come with feathers and gunk, are varying sizes and sometimes a bit knobbly.
As an aside, I looked all over town for white eggs for Easter. Nope. You can't get white eggs for love nor money in this town. Weird, because it was white or nothing when I was growing up. Still, the dyes worked well on the brown. They would just have been brighter on white.
And we don't put the eggs in the fridge when we come home either. They're out on the counter. Or they will be when I buy some today - I had egg on toast for tea last night.
I've heard spigot used a lot too -I just forgot about it! Is it regional?
Spiggits are biscuits in our family. Comes from my brother trying to say biscuits as a child (more properly s-bicits) Whenever I hear spigot that's what I think of.
Re wiping up. If you have soap bubbles on your plates when they're draining, you're using too much washing up liquid. We wipe up as soon as we've washed up and I don't recall any bubbles on the plates. And after all, you are
wiping them... It would be a waste of hot water to rinse them! Then again, I grew up in a house where three of us would use the same bathwater, for fear of the ruinious cost of hving the immersion on. And we boiled a keetle for our morning wash in the sink.
You could rinse them in cold water.
Do Brits refer to all redheads as ginger - even the dark red kind?
No, the dark red ones are called Maryanne. :lol:
Do Brits refer to all redheads as ginger - even the dark red kind?
And do they have the expression beat like a red-headed step child? And why is ginger a pejorative?
No, the dark red ones are called Maryanne. :lol:
hahah
in the new Sherlock Holmes movie (which I bought and watched several times yesterday) they keep referring to the "ginger dwarf" with some glee. Also, Robert Downey Jr. is completely awesome . . . but doesn't sound too British.
ETA: I note that The Red-Headed League by Conan Doyle is available online for free in the public domain. Bet there are a bunch of spigots and ballcocks in it. Don't know about the ginger midgets.
yes, although it's a little derogatory and it may be more the English than all the Brits. I think it stems from the Irish/celtic thing -the Irish were looked down upon. But they're all ginger and it's not as "sought-after" as a look as it is here. Although that's a little outdated now. But certainly when i was at school, they were all ginger. Your hair colors were blonde, ginger, mouse and dark. Shove me in the mouse category and color me purple.
actually, Colin's my uncle, but I always liked to be a little different.
what IS the difference between a cane and a walking stick, anyway?
Walking sticks are generally alive, while canes generally aren't.
to me, a "cane" has a curved handle. The ones pictured do not, so that's why I called them walking sticks. It seems to me from reading period romances, etc., that gentlemen carried walking sticks, or "sticks," too.
Canes are alive, too--that's what you call a "stalk" of bamboo, isn't it?
I was going to look this up in my mega dictionary at home, but forgot.
Walking sticks are generally alive, while canes generally aren't.
Hey, it's
Gustav
!
I think the difference is this: a walking stick is an aid to walking, and replaces the much older walking staff. The cane is not an aid for walking, it replaces the sword and also the officer's baton and is one of the fashion marks of a 'gentleman' it's a class indicator rather than a practical item.
Interestingly, when swords started to fall out of fashion, many canes had a sword set inside that cuold be drawn or flicked out of the cane for use in a sticky situation.
since when is a cane not an aid for walking? In current US usage (or, in my usage) a cane is for someone who has a limp or needs assistance in walking; and a walking stick is for hikers. That ornamental gentlemen's stick pictured is neither.
There are such things here as 'walking canes' but in general, a 'walking stick' is a stronger stick with a handle (either curved or whatever: like Dr House uses).
I'm not sure but I think the kind of stick hikers uses may have a different term here; but what you call a 'cane' we would usually call a walking stick. If I were to describe an old man who has trouble walking, I wouldn't say he walks with a cane, but that he walks with a stick, or a walking stick.
An antique dagger cane which Dana mentioned. It was handed down to me when my grandfather passed on. He also had a Civil War sword that I coveted dearly, but that went to a museum:(
since when is a cane not an aid for walking? In current US usage (or, in my usage) a cane is for someone who has a limp or needs assistance in walking; and a walking stick is for hikers. That ornamental gentlemen's stick pictured is neither.
Since we're talking
British English. A cane refers to the fashion accessory type, a stick to the useful type. Full Stop. (period)
One of the great Zatoichi Films, "Zatoichi and Yojimbo" this is the only one I could find that had a decent clip of his sword walking staff, @ ~ 1:20 great sequence in the film, this is a bit truncated as I remember it.
[YOUTUBE]z_Xes0ZpDPs[/YOUTUBE]
In my vernacular a cane and a walking stick are very different. A cane is either a medical aid with a curved handle used for walking, or an ornamental accessory which is used for formal attire and is rarely used. (canes are about waste high)
A walking stick is a stick that can range in length from wast high to the jaw with less workmanship than the average can and has no handle.
Once the stick reached about temple high to just about an inch over the head it becomes a staff or bow( specificity a Korean staff, although ideal length of a Korean staff is from the ground to one's temple but a little extra length can be gotten away with)
When the height reaches beyond the one inch above the head,it becomes a long staff or English staff. Although typically this kind of staff is much taller than person usually about 6 inches to one foot taller. For instances my tapering red oak staff, which would be a long or English staff, is six foot tall ( about two meters) which is almost a full foot taller than I.
Out of curiosity, is English your first language, TK? If so, which type?
yet another Merkin/Brit language divide it seems.
But walking stick is what BrE speakers call what AmE speakers call a cane--a stick, like the one to the right, with a (usually curved) handle and often with a rubber anti-slip bit at the end, used by people with (BrE) dodgy feet/legs/knees/hips/ankles.
http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com/2008/03/sticks-and-canes-walkers-and-frames.html
ETA: and I realized I posted this (re: the cane v. walking stick) in the wrong thread; sorry.
No Shit? :trolleyes:
...the was supposed to be :rolleyes: but I think the typo was Freudian so I'm leaving it.
lol
So basically, the Separated by a Common Language blogger says the same thing I said :P
Out of curiosity, is English your first language, TK? If so, which type?
American English is my first, and only, fluent language. I would like to think I have a regionally ambiguous dialect, although informally I do use some Texas colloquialism, slang, Spanish, and Japaneses peppered into my speech.
American English is my first, and only, fluent language. I would like to think I have a regionally ambiguous dialect, although informally I do use some Texas colloquialism, slang, Spanish, and Japaneses peppered into my speech.
I think i see the Japanese sometimes, although i'm no expert. Sometimes your structures remind me of my friend's husband -who is Ameican-born Japanese. But then sometimes they remind me of my own drunk typing.... so i could just be full of the usual bull. Your vocab is great though -often makes me smile (in a good way). Vernacular was the word that made me ask here.
lol
So basically, the Separated by a Common Language blogger says the same thing I said :P
yebbut common language blogger is merkin so it miraculously makes sense when s/he says it....
sorry for posting this in the wrong thread. I didn't collect at first that it was a geographical difference, y'see.
I think i see the Japanese sometimes, although i'm no expert. Sometimes your structures remind me of my friend's husband -who is Ameican-born Japanese. But then sometimes they remind me of my own drunk typing.... so i could just be full of the usual bull.
I am sure I'm filled to the brim with the usual bull. Much of my sentence structures , expeshaly the less than common ones, comes from literal Spanish translations, British literature( The tragedy of Dr. Faust, John Milton, ect) , and American blank verse poetry.
But I am most influenced by the speech of those around me and the media I consume. For instances if I read a lot of poetry I will speak in verse; After I watched the movie
Brick I picked up their speech patterns for about six hours.
Your vocab is great though -often makes me smile (in a good way).
I am glad for that.
Vernacular was the word that made me ask here.
I am curious here. Is vernacular a British idiom or an Americanism?
[COLOR="White"]I blame this post one
Monster[/COLOR]
neither, it's just a damn good word :)
...but only tends to be used by language-lovers.
I must confess to being a linguaphile.
Have you tried talcum powder for that? :haha:
Sounds like a painful rash.
I must confess to being a linguaphile.
I prefer fettucine, but I'll take linguaphile w/o clam sauce.
Do you have to let it lingua, do you have to, do you have to, do you have to let it lingua?
My wife is reading a book called Birdman by Mo Hayder, I had to send her to this:
http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/I read that! Can't remember it being particularly replete with local vernacular. But I do remember it ultimately disappointed me. I don't remember why; but the fact I never read the sequal seems proof enough.
Then again (back to words) I've been caught out here many times; something I thought was universal has turned out to be British or English. I think I've only needed cultural references explained in return though - perhaps because America exports so much entertainment.
Yes that totally took me by surprise when I moved here -I was familiar with most Americanisms and just I assumed it would be a reciprocal thing. WRONG.
Only to be expected really. When America exports its cultural product to Britain it does so mainly in the original form. When we export our cultural product to America, it's watched by a few BBC America viewers then remade for an American audience; or in the case of books, rewritten with many of the Britishisms removed.
I find the removal of Britishisms in American media very strange. I'm going to chalk it up to the fact that Hollywood, and most of the world from what I have seen, thinks the average American is dumb.
Not dumb; impatient. I think the media generally anticipates that the viewer will only give a programme/book so much time to sink in before they give up on it. If a britishism is there and potentially will stand in the way of instant comprehension they consider that dangerous.
With regards TV programmes, i don't think it's just about making it 'American' and therefore easier to relate to. It's also about what the average American viewer expects as standard as compared to what the average British viewer expects as standard. Our programmes are made on much lower budgets. The American viewer is, in some ways, much more sophisticated and expects a great deal more from a programme. What they aren't expecting, or expected to do, is to do the mental maths when presented with something that is primarily representational. The American viewer expects to see on screen what a british viewer will add in their minds. Because we are used to programmes that have lower budgets. You guys have much slicker shows in many ways.
Do you think they are wrong?
I think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. By assuming this, the media creates/reinforces those expectations and makes it less likely that people will accept such fare. It also means that American people become less practiced in the ... *thinks* cultural code shifting, that British people, by dint of necessity, are adept at. It's the price of being the dominant culture.
thanks Dana. I missed your post in there and was asking tora if he thought the average American was dumb.
Ahhh *chuckles* gotcha :P
I think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. By assuming this, the media creates/reinforces those expectations and makes it less likely that people will accept such fare. It also means that American people become less practiced in the ... *thinks* cultural code shifting, that British people, by dint of necessity, are adept at. It's the price of being the dominant culture.
VERY true.
Also, being such a large country, you have far less need to look outside your own borders.
First time I heard about the low percentage of Americans with passports I was shocked. I mean really viscerally shocked. It was quite a while later when I really thought about it, and the sheer size of the States, that I began to realise it wasn't due to American xenophobia or ignorance (although my reaction was due to ignorance on my part.)
Growing up on a small island just off mainland Europe with its many small countries is a very different situation to growing up on a reasonably homogenised continent.
the one that always bugged me was the changing of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone to "Sorcerer's Stone." That never made sense to me at all, and it's kinda rude. It implies Americans are too uneducated to have heard about alchemy, but ready enough to believe in sorcerers, and I just don't buy that.
Do you think they are wrong?
I believe that the average American can handle more intelligent entertainment than we are give on average, furthermore, I feel if we are given more multicultural allusions we would pick up more over time.
Yeah, it gave stand-ups some yucks in this country at your expense.
I'm pretty known as a Merkin-phile around these parts, because I I deplore hearing ignorant conversations about "all Americans". I dispute the idea that there is any organised anti-American feeling in this country. But ignorant people like to make "aren't foreigners funny" comments pretty much everywhere and about everything.
OH - something that made me laugh today! I had The Daily 10 on. I occasionally like to hear frothy news about people I don't recognise. In the same way I will sometime have Welsh language programmes on in the background just for the noise of the language.
Anyway, the presenter said to a guest that he was European, not gay (in response to denied gay rumours). He responded, "Actually I'm Australian." Great research there darling. No idea who he was. He and his wife have a book out called something like Little Kids, Big City but I'm simply not interested enough to look it up.
VERY true.
Also, being such a large country, you have far less need to look outside your own borders.
First time I heard about the low percentage of Americans with passports I was shocked. I mean really viscerally shocked. It was quite a while later when I really thought about it, and the sheer size of the States, that I began to realise it wasn't due to American xenophobia or ignorance (although my reaction was due to ignorance on my part.)
Growing up on a small island just off mainland Europe with its many small countries is a very different situation to growing up on a reasonably homogenised continent.
*Winces* I don't have a passport. I did have, once...a one year passport...my housemate used it to roach his joint :P
Anyway, the presenter said to a guest that he was European, not gay (in response to denied gay rumours). He responded, "Actually I'm Australian." Great research there darling. No idea who he was. He and his wife have a book out called something like Little Kids, Big City but I'm simply not interested enough to look it up.
Ha! That's from a couple that appears on Real Housewives (of NYC).
I have a passport!
I use to have 2 passports.
One Blue, one Red.
I don't have a passport. It costs money, the same kind of money I don't have for a trip of any size.
the one that always bugged me was the changing of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone to "Sorcerer's Stone." That never made sense to me at all, and it's kinda rude. It implies Americans are too uneducated to have heard about alchemy, but ready enough to believe in sorcerers, and I just don't buy that.
Sorcerers are easier to believe than most philosophers I've heard. ;)
Hey! I may or may not - albeit the latter in some nearby possible world - resemble that remark!
Not dumb; impatient.
No, dumb.
VERY true.
Sorry, luv. Wishful thinking. A walk through the ocean of average american intelligence wouldn't get your feet wet.
I believe that the average American can handle more intelligent entertainment than we are give on average, furthermore, I feel if we are given more multicultural allusions we would pick up more over time.
Nope, you and the folks you are hanging out with are above average people. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that you and the people you surround yourselves with are a representative slice of America.
intelligence isn't the problem; education is
Good point. One of my high school teachers was fond of saying:
Ignorance can be fixed, stupid is forever.
There's also a danger in taking the 'view from above'. Programme makers make assumptions about their viewers: doesn't mean they're right. It is generally in their interests to target the lowest common denominator in order to increase consumption and reduce risk.
The fact that in a totally commercial environment (which the US entertainment market is) clever programmes do get made and are popular (you just have to look at HBO to see that this is the case) suggests that there is an appetite for challenging television. In the UK we are in a fortunate position of having the gargantuan BBC dominating the entertainment landscape and ensuring that even the commercial channels have to compete against them on the grounds of quality as well as popularity.
That doesn't mean we dont have lowest common denominator programming; but it does mean that such fare cannot dominate in the same way.
That you guys can routinely produce fabulous television that breaks the mold and pushes the boundaries again and again, despite operating in a totally commercial environment is to be admired and gives the lie somewhat to the idea that the audience isn't there, or is ill-prepared to accept the challenge.
After all, only half of us are below average.;)
After all, only half of us are below average.;)
Half are below median.
[SIZE="1"][COLOR="Silver"]Just saying[/COLOR][/SIZE]
Half of me is above average. So I am only half of the half who is half above half the others. Or something.
I've always wondered what the milk fat content of Half and Half is. It's half milk, half cream. But milk can be anywhere from 0% to 4%, and cream can be anywhere from 18% to 36% depending on if you are getting a lighter table cream or a heavier whipping cream. It's a real math problem.
This chart at wikipedia answers this and more.
Half and half is 10% to 18% milk fat. Seems kind of loose to me. If you have a name for something, it should have a specific fat content. Skim milk is always 0%. Whole milk is always 4%. Why can't Half and Half always be say, 14%?
If I ran a dairy, I'd put the fat content in a big font on the label regardless of what was being produced. Butter would have a 100%, skim milk a 0%, and everything in between would be clearly labeled as well.
I thought squirrels preferred nuts
Talking of being separated by a common language, and going back to the perennial topic of US remakes of Uk shows:
I just caught a little of the US Life On Mars: specifically the ending....wtf? They had them actually go to mars??? And then having given it this ridiculously literal ending, they played out with an Elton John track...rather than Bowie's LIFE ON MARS!
Having depressed myself thoroughly seeing this I fell upon a clip of the pilot for the USA Red Dwarf...I didnt know there'd been such a beast. It is truly awful. And pointless.
Will you guys (not here on the cellar, i mean more generally) please learn to cope with non-American versions of the English language and then demand that your tv networks stop destroying great shows? In return I promise we won't remake Frasier, Friends and M*A*S*H....and whilst were at it, if you endeavour not to rewrite all out books, I solemnly swear we'll read Catcher in the Rye in it's original American.
*grins*
sorry. That was unfair. I know the whys and the wherefores and the d'ye mind if I don'ts. I do understand. But it is terribly frustrating at times.
I do understand. But it is terribly frustrating at times.
I don't understand why it would be frustrating. You don't have to watch the American version of your favorite British whatever. Just watch the British one.
Sure, I can understand rolling your eyes or mocking, and we Americans probably even deserve it, but being frustrated is what I don't get.
Heeheee, I have no interest in any of the shows, remakes or otherwise, for me to ponder the difference in the versions.
Unless of course, Benny Hill is in one. He's so goddam funny and all. :rolleyes:
:)
Having depressed myself thoroughly seeing this I fell upon a clip of the pilot for the USA Red Dwarf...I didnt know there'd been such a beast. It is truly awful. And pointless.
Okay, but... Can I say something heretical? I've seen the British version of Red Dwarf, and I didn't think it was funny either. I'm sure the American version sucked too, I'm just saying. I also didn't like Black Adder in the slightest. [duck and cover]
I don't understand why it would be frustrating. You don't have to watch the American version of your favorite British whatever. Just watch the British one.
Sure, I can understand rolling your eyes or mocking, and we Americans probably even deserve it, but being frustrated is what I don't get.
Two reasons:
1: silly and illogical as it is, I feel mildly insulted that we're not seen as good enough in our own right. We love your shows and that's not quite reciprocated. ....yes I know, chip on shoulder :P
2: Some of the best things we've made won't get seen by most Americans and I think that's a shame. Like when I come on here talking about Doctor Who, or even US shows like Dexter, I want the world to see the shows I love :P
[eta] Forgive me, I'm a tv fanatic :P
Okay, but... Can I say something heretical? I've seen the British version of Red Dwarf, and I didn't think it was funny either. I'm sure the American version sucked too, I'm just saying. I also didn't like Black Adder in the slightest. [duck and cover]
Red Dwarf is a little like Marmite: you either love it or loathe it :)
You didn't like Black Adder???? Get thee to a nunnery!
Okay, but... Can I say something heretical? I've seen the British version of Red Dwarf, and I didn't think it was funny either. I'm sure the American version sucked too, I'm just saying. I also didn't like Black Adder in the slightest. [duck and cover]
I suppose it kinda depends when you saw it.
Both series were ground-breaking. I watched Blackadder I from the third episode. That was when the 'rents first got a video. I was too young to watch it as it was broadcast (21.00) Of course I've watched it countless times on video & DVD since - I even have the script book.
Same with Red Dwarf. It was the talk of the changing rooms - I thought it was a mediaeval comedy show (because of the title) and begged the 'rents to tape it. I was gutted that I'd missed so much!
They're dated now, of course. No, reallt - very dated. But those of us who watched them during a comedy drought (being FAR to young to appreciate the live "alternative comedy" explosion happening in London) know selected episodes by heart and can still laugh at them.
I've watched some "classic" SNL sketches and been as unmoved as Mount Rushmore. Given that they're acclaimed by some of my comedy heroes, I think it's less an international divide and more just time and place.
FTR - I'm the only person I know who really reveres the first series of Blackadder and fades away series by series. And I also know people who despise
The League of Gentlemen. And even criticise the award winning
Benidorm. But I know not everyone can have my good taste.
Surely the best Blackadder episode is the third season one where Baldrick accidentally burns Johnson's Dictionary and they decide to write a new one.
E: Very well, sir, as you wish. Let's start at the beginning, shall we?
First: `A'. How would you define `a'?
B: Ohh...`a' (continues this in background)
G: Oh, I love this! I love this: quizzies...Errmmm, hang on, it's coming...
ooohh, crikey, errmm, oh yes, I've got it!
E: What?
G: Well, it doesn't really mean anything, does it?
E: Good. So we're well on the way, then. " `a'; impersonal pronoun;
doesn't really mean anything." Right! Next: `A'... `A-B'.
(Baldrick and Prince ponder over this)
B: Well, it's a buzzing thing, isn't it. "A buzzing thing."
E: Baldrick, I mean something that starts with `A-B'.
B: Honey? Honey starts with a bee.
G: He's right, you know, Blackadder. Honey does start a bee...and a flower,
too.
E: Yes, look, this really isn't getting anywhere. And besides, I've left out
`aardvark'.
G: Oh well, don't say we didn't give it a try.
E: No, Your Highness, it was a brave start, but I fear I must proceed on my
own. Now; Baldrick, go to the kitchen and make me something quick and sim-
ple to eat, would you? Two slices of bread with something in between.
B: What, like Gerald, Lord Sandwich, had the other day?
E: Yes -- a few rounds of Geralders.
Yes, I can certainly believe that is the best Blackadder episode.
UT is lying. That is all.
For me the best episode is "Head", from the second series.
It could never read as well as it plays - you have to be able to hear Rowan Atkinson and Tim McInnerny to appreciate it in full. Aside - I have always maintained that the best comedy (ie what I like) can be listened to on the radio with little or no amendment. Frasier for example.
There are a number of scenes which delight me in this ep, but this is my favourite.
I still say, "We're not at home to Mr Cockup." But no-one gets what I mean :(
Percy is trying not to let Lady Farrow into the gaol because in fact they have already cut Lord Farrow's head off (to save time). Blackadder is about to try to impersonate Lord Farrow so that she doesn't find out.
Percy: Well, yes, there are a couple of other things.
Lady Farrow: I am prepared for the fact that he may have lost some weight.
Percy: Yes, and some height. That's the interesting thing, aaaah, you'll probably hardly recognise him at all actually.
Lady Farrow: You'll be telling me his arm's grown back next.
Percy: Aaaaaah, excuse just for a sec. [running back into the gaol]He's only got one arm!!!
MRP: Ah yes!
Blackadder: Oh well I shall just have to stick it inside the shirt. Which one? Which one?
Percy: Aaaaah, aaaaah, hang on! Em hang on! [back outside] Em, em, eh, how do we know you're his wife?
Lady Farrow: What?
Percy: Em, well, you know, you could be a gloater.
Lady Farrow: I beg pardon!?
Percy: You know, a gloater, aaaah, come to gloat over the condemned man! I mean we're up to our ears in gloaters here. "Can I come in for a gloat?" they shout and we shout back "Oh you heartless gloaters!"
Lady Farrow: (cries)
Percy: All right, all right, I tell you what. I'll believe you're not a gloater if you tell me which arm he hasn't got.
Lady Farrow: His left of course! Now let me see my husband!
Percy: [running back in] Right! it's the left. Good luck!
Blackadder: Gloaters. You really are a pratt aren't you Percy? Right, don't forget in two minutes you interrupt me all right? And no more than two minutes otherwise I'm in real trouble, and don't forget because..?
Baldrick: ...because we're not at home to Mr. Cockup!
Clod, maybe you just caughts ome of series I and were turned off, the comedy style in Blackadder I is different to II-IV, personally I is weak II-IV pretty much golden beginning to end.
I don't even recall the episode UT is referencing so I'm going to quibble with it being the best, personally I like series II the best, I'm not sure I can pick just one.
Dana where did you see the US Red Dwarf, I'd love to experience it.
EDIT: I see it's on youtube, also seems to be a Red Dwarf cartoon
For me it's a toss up between series 2 and series 4: BlackAdder Goes Forth was a work of genius imo. Yes it was funny, but it was also sharp and deeply sad. It got me interested in the First World War and brilliantly portrayed, through satire, the futility and stupidity of the conflict; the naivete of some of the soldiers who were fooled into laying down their lives; the criminal incompetance of the generals in charge : Lions led by donkeys indeed.
Clod, maybe you just caughts ome of series I and were turned off, the comedy style in Blackadder I is different to II-IV, personally I is weak II-IV pretty much golden beginning to end.
It was all Season 1, Mr. Clod was watching from the very beginning on Netflix. Perhaps I will tell him to try again with season 2 sometime. Perhaps.
Series 1 is totally distinct. Different writers, entirely different styles and characterisations. Blackadder is the 'idiot' in series 1. But he's the clever bastard in the rest.
"I may be as thick as a whale omelette, but..."
That phrase alone makes me crack up.
According to this vote
http://web.archive.org/web/20050317032232/www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/blackadder/vote/
The poignant final episode Goodbyeee (4) wins best episode with 31%
followed by (year):
13% Beer (2)
10% Private Plane (4)
6% Bells (2)
5% Ink and Incompatibility (3)
4% Potato (2)
4% Money (2)
3% Chains (2)
3% Corporal Punishment (4)
The finale gives 4 the edge, otherwise 2 is the preferred season, followed by 3, followed by 1.
A clip from the second series:
[youtube]K71MckOTt1M&feature=related[/youtube]
And some from Blackadder Goes Forth:
)a word of explanation: baldrick's 'coffee' is not really coffee...the sugar is..something fairly revolting and the less said about the milk the better. They ran out of actual coffe and milk long ago :P
[youtube]md-WQ3U7sts[/youtube]
I'd think that the Brits, who are so much more adept at humor that the US, would have left out the awful laugh track that is stepping on every line.
It comes in too early as though the viewers were psychic and knew what the line was before it was spoken.
I'd pay extra for a "clean" version.
That's because they do know what the line is before it comes :p Or rather they think they do. Many of these jokes are running jokes. It was recorded in a studio in front of a live audience. Only in the first series of Blackadder did they shoot on location and then play the tape to an audience for the laughter track.
[eta] oftne they're laughing because ofthe build-up to a joke, it's an expectant laugh. Like with Captain Darling and the coffee: that was the 'punchline' to a joke that had taken the first half of the show to build. Or just because they find the expressions of the characters funny. Often they're laughing at stuff going on in the background: the expression on the face of one of the characters who isn't speaking. It's conspiratorial laugher: they're in on the joke in a way that Captain Darling and General Melchiord isnt.
And of course some of it is simply the tone of Blackadder's voice. Or something as simple as the way Melchett says "Darling".
I'd think that the Brits, who are so much more adept at humor that the US, would have left out the awful laugh track that is stepping on every line.
It comes in too early as though the viewers were psychic and knew what the line was before it was spoken.
I'd pay extra for a "clean" version.
Laugh tracks are the bane of all great humor. I hated it in MASH and it is poorly used here.
Thank you! I finally get a witness!
It'd be a bit difficult wouldn't it to remove laughter that was there in the original recording (as opposed to laid on afterwards)?
Oh Dana, Beest had that Merkin Red Dwarf pilot on. I feel your pain, it just didn't work.... and the guy they had for Lister -all wrong. But I see why they tried.
And here's a bit more on that -this may be a first, and may not be an academic paper on the matter, but I think it's a valid point, so I'm going to quote Jilly Cooper (from her novel Rivals) A young American TV producer talking about buying a British TV series:
The dialogue's far too sophisticated. If you're going to appeal to Alabama blacks, Mexican peasants and Russian Jews in the same programme, you can't have a vocab bigger than three hundred words
The UK is tiny and old. We have many many accents and dialects, but as a nation, we have pretty much shared the same history and backgrounds for hundreds of years and we have probably all met someone from most corners of the country. America is huge, most people's families have only been here for a few generations and they have come from all over the world. Very little shared history, vocab, colloquialisms etc. Even less chance of contact with Brits and their background. Fair enough, I hear you cry, but why the need to make it appeal to everyone? Because almost all TV here is commercial. Advertisers want their commercials to be seen by as many people as possible. Very few would be interested in time during a show watched by a handful of anglophiles and expats. No advertising revenue = no money to buy the show. It needs to be understood by a wider range of people to be worth buying. So it gets Americanized.
Also, I remember hearing there's something to do with the actor's union too, but I can't remember exactly what that was and can't find any corroboration right now. Maybe Clodfobble or UG could help on that?
[YOUTUBE]wYmrg3owTRE&NR[/YOUTUBE]
The UK is tiny and old. We have many many accents and dialects, but as a nation, we have pretty much shared the same history and backgrounds for hundreds of years and we have probably all met someone from most corners of the country. America is huge, most people's families have only been here for a few generations and they have come from all over the world. Very little shared history, vocab, colloquialisms etc. Even less chance of contact with Brits and their background. Fair enough, I hear you cry, but why the need to make it appeal to everyone? Because almost all TV here is commercial. Advertisers want their commercials to be seen by as many people as possible. Very few would be interested in time during a show watched by a handful of anglophiles and expats. No advertising revenue = no money to buy the show. It needs to be understood by a wider range of people to be worth buying. So it gets Americanized.
Also, I remember hearing there's something to do with the actor's union too, but I can't remember exactly what that was and can't find any corroboration right now. Maybe Clodfobble or UG could help on that?
Excellent observations, Monster. I am still surprised by the successful translation of The Office. Into a dozen languages or summat? innit? I think it must have something to do with the universality of that type of awfulness.
You hit the nail on the head there.
That said, The Office only tips the needle at occassionally slightly amusing on my scale.... but i'm lucky enough that I don't have to work in one.
Yeah, I think Gervais is much funnier at standup. I feel really uncomfortable watching either Gervais or Carrel as their Office characters. I don't think I could work in an office.
Gervais gives me the creeps. And he stole my friend's artwork.
that sucks. was it a holdup or an I'm not going to pay you thing?
[YOUTUBE]wYmrg3owTRE&NR[/YOUTUBE]
I did not get any of the American slangs. :neutral: Are these slangs common?
that sucks. was it a holdup or an I'm not going to pay you thing?
John Megahan is my friend, Ricky asked his permission for this, he said no.
[YOUTUBEWIDE]OIcrCZQkSlg[/YOUTUBEWIDE]
![This chart]("http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Milkproducts.svg"){kind=link}