Girl, 6, Handcuffed, Committed Because Of Classroom Behavior
PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. -- A Port St. Lucie first-grade student was handcuffed and committed to a mental health facility because of her classroom behavior, and her parents are furious that the school took such extreme measures.
Mickey Shalansky explained Wednesday what he said happened to his 6-year-old daughter at Parkway Elementary.
"She couldn't put her in two handcuffs because her wrists are that small, so she put them both in the same handcuff and left marks on my daughter's arms," Shalansky told WPBF 25 News' Bob Kaple.
But a St. Lucie County Sheriff's Office report paints a much different picture.
Deputies said his daughter, Haley, got upset and stormed out her classroom when her teacher asked her to do something. The report said it then escalated into a temper tantrum in the principal's office.
According to the incident report, a deputy said Haley was out of control. It said she "kicked the wall, went over to the desk and threw the calculator, electric pencil sharpener, telephone, container of writing utensils and other objects across the desk."
She was then handcuffed.
"I don't think it should have had to come to this -- you know, to put a little girl, 6 years old, 37 pounds in handcuffs and take her away in a police car," Shalansky said.
Even worse is what happened the next day, Haley's parents said.
A deputy was called to the school again after Haley had another tantrum in the classroom and principal's office.
The sheriff's report said she was yelling, throwing things and hit the principal, who is eight months pregnant. This time, she wasn't handcuffed. She was committed to a mental facility.
"I was terrified," mother Kathy Franklin said. "I left work crying, terrified. Where is my baby? What are they doing with my baby?"
Haley's parents said their daughter has a temper problem, but has no history of mental illness. Her mother said the school should have called her so she could pick up her daughter rather than have her committed.
"They have looked at her here," Franklin said of the New Horizons mental health facility. "There is absolutely nothing wrong with my child. I work in daycare. I know what a child that has problems -- you know, I know how to deal with them. I know what they act like."
Shalansky said to have his daughter committed is "just wrong."
The report also said the school has contacted Haley's parents several times about setting up a meeting to discuss her behavior, but they have never shown up.
Franklin said she was supposed to meet with school officials Tuesday but had to cancel because she had car problems.
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The kid is 37 pounds and the put her in handcuffs? Then the next day they had her committed? WOW.
There must be a lot more to this than just this story. I mean how bad do things have to get before a school full of adults has to get the police and a mental facility involved?
"the school has contacted Haley's parents several times about setting up a meeting to discuss her behavior, but they have never shown up."
I read that too - last time was Tuesday - mom had car problems. :eyebrow:
Still - she is 6 and weighs 37lbs.
At age 6, it's a little difficult to have a "mental health history," or much of any history for that matter.
I take calls from parents of children as young as 3 who are doing this sort of thing. Frankly, they should have gone the commitment route the first day, rather than letting there be a second. I've had a 10 year old destroy a secure interview room. I don't have a problem with handcuffs or restraints or forcible medication when a kid is that out of control. Obviously the school can't shoot the kid up, but you work with what you have, including having a staff member do a physical hold to restrain. Been there, done that. The school is responsible for the safety of ALL the children in the classroom, not just the one who is flipping out.
Unfortunately a couple of weeks of hospitalization will not cure the previous 6 years of ineffective parenting.
Bullshit parents...simple enough. Probably the only way that kid will get any help.
Still - she is 6 and weighs 37lbs.
For comparison, my 3.5 year old weighs 37 lbs. This girl is malnourished, among other things--which isn't necessarily an indication that her parents don't feed her, a metabolic disorder may go hand-in-hand with her behavioral problems. Either way, I'm all for the school taking whatever measures it needs to. I actually like the option of committing the girl better than arresting her, since there's really nothing the cops can do to a kid but try to scare them straight, and that usually doesn't work anyway.
I guess I was thinking that they would call the parents FIRST to come get her. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. Thats a part of the story that isn't there.
I would expect that from my kids school. Then again I'd have been up the schools ass long before it got to this point.
It's a no-win situation for the school.
"My kid does no wrong. My kid is perfect."
Yep, I've seen the products of those parenting skills. Kids grow up feeling entitled and unable to fight their own battles except through use of violence or running back to mommy or daddy. Doesn't do the kid any favors.
There is definitely something missing from the story there.
The little girl came home from school with marks on her wrists from handcuffs and they sent her back the next day?
I would at least have accompanied my child to school for a face to face meeting at that point. BEFORE allowing her back in the classroom.
I would at least have accompanied my child to school for a face to face [COLOR="Red"]beating [/COLOR]at that point.
:blush:
In a shocking and unusual incident, a 12-year-old school girl has been arrested for doodling on her desk with an erasable marker.
The New York City middle school student reportedly was put in metal handcuffs, not the plastic ties often used, and taken to a police station for her offence.
Alexa Gonzalez, a seventh grader at Junior High School 190 in Forest Hills, was hauled out of school in handcuffs, the Daily News reported on Friday.
Handcuffed for minor infractions - According to a report from MyFox National, a Queens girl was not only hauled off in handcuffs, she was even patted down by officers.
Gonzalez told the Daily News that she was scribbling a few words on her desk Monday while waiting for her Spanish teacher to pass out homework.
She allegedly scribbled: "I love my friends Abby and Faith," adding the phrases "Lex was here. 2/1/10" and a smiley face.
The girl says she scribbled using a lime-green erasable marker and that the doodles could have been erased. But, she was suspended when an offending item was found with her.
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I wonder what the "offending item was. Surely it wasn't just a marker, right?
I mean they must have found drugs or something.
The missing part of the story is that the parents are worse than useless. If my kid behaved that way, I'd prefer they handcuffed him before he seriously hurt himself or someone else, for a start. (yes we all know which kid, and no, we're not far off....
) The age and weight have NOTHING to do with it. (Neither does the pregnancy of the principal.)
The parents are too stupid to realize that they are to blame and that's why they've gone to the press, They don't care about the kid, they want their 15 minutes and see this as a perfect vehicle. And this Junk Reporter is lapping it up. If the principal's pregnancy makes her more vulnerable, then she shouldn't be doing the job. But it doesn't, seeing as she took the right course of action, so it was sensationalism to mention it.
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I wonder what the "offending item was. Surely it wasn't just a marker, right?
I mean they must have found drugs or something.
terrible grammar. It was the student who was offending, not the marker.
) The age and weight have NOTHING to do with it.
6 years old and only 37 pounds (17 kilograms)? That does not imply a serious problem?
A kid so uncontrollable that the teacher, then the principal, then the cops all found her too troubled to handle?
A problem so serious and the parents made no effort to discuss the problem immediately or seek a solution?
A child considered so traumatic that professionals considered immediate psychiatric evaluation necessary?
Every number implies something seriously wrong. And parents are abetting that problem by ignoring it - if not the source of that problem. If your kid is to problematic as to require police - a responsible parent drops everything to address that problem.
Obviously not a problem that anyone here can pass judgement other than to say something is seriously wrong. 6 years old and only 37 pounds (17 Kg)? Why is that not relevant?
They should water-board her... to find out about her parents, what her home life is like.
Offer it eggshells - changelings can't resist them.
6 years old and only 37 pounds (17 kilograms)? That does not imply a serious problem?
A kid so uncontrollable that the teacher, then the principal, then the cops all found her too troubled to handle?
A problem so serious and the parents made no effort to discuss the problem immediately or seek a solution?
A child considered so traumatic that professionals considered immediate psychiatric evaluation necessary?
Every number implies something seriously wrong. And parents are abetting that problem by ignoring it - if not the source of that problem. If your kid is to problematic as to require police - a responsible parent drops everything to address that problem.
Obviously not a problem that anyone here can pass judgement other than to say something is seriously wrong. 6 years old and only 37 pounds (17 Kg)? Why is that not relevant?
Would the behaviour be more acceptable if the kid weighed more and was older? No, it would still point to serious issue that needed dealing with. Therefore it's irrelevant.
If someone is bleeding to death, whether they were shot 20 or 50 times becomes irrelevant.
6 years old and only 37 pounds (17 Kg)?
Lil Lookout is almost 9 years old and 52 lbs. He might have been
40 lbs when he was 6.
Although the age and weight may be important they could just as easily be irrelevent facts.
The point was restraining a child that small - I was QUESTIONING whether handcuffs were really necessary. Thats all, move along.
Would the behavior be more acceptable if the kid weighed more and was older? No, it would still point to serious issue that needed dealing with.
The kid is seriously underweight. The parent appears not concerned when the kid's behavior is so serious that cops are called. And this behavior continues for a second day - requiring psychological analysis. But none of those would be related or relevant?
Average age for a 17 kg kid is four years old. This kid is below the five percentile. No, weight is not relevant - except for other factors that make it relevant.
Of course other factors are not provided. Height was not provided - a relevant parameter. Based only upon what was provided, a child seriously underweight and a parent without apparent concern add up to greater suspicion.
I like the waterboard solution. Flush evil out of her. Eliminates the need for an exorcist.
The point was restraining a child that small - I was QUESTIONING whether handcuffs were really necessary. Thats all, move along.
If someone holds her arms to stop her violence, she'd probably continue to struggle harder and harder. Once the cuffs are on, even a kid would know it's useless to struggle, possibly preventing her being injured.
Or coldcock her. ;)
Duct tape. Covers the mouth, too.
Say, can you do a sleeper hold on a six year old?
Say, can you do a sleeper hold on a six year old?
Another six year old probably could, but an adult has trouble getting the proper leverage. More likely to twist their heads clean off, like a chicken.
I'd go with the Helicopter Spin, or maybe just smashing her face into a turnbuckle.
If someone holds her arms to stop her violence, she'd probably continue to struggle harder and harder. Once the cuffs are on, even a kid would know it's useless to struggle, possibly preventing her being injured.
Or coldcock her. ;)
Can you imagine the uproar if the adults had laid hands on her? Used physical force and manhadled her? Oh, the humanity!
Ya know spex - I guess given that as the only alternative cuffing here was the better of two options, legally. I'm sure there is gonna be some type of lawsuit to follow as ridiculous as that may sound. This is situation is messed up no matter what.
Let me disqualify myself for a moment:
I don't have children. I don't have any children, and it's no accident. I also have never worked at, or been incarcerated in a nut-hatch. I am not now, nor have I ever been a teacher or a principal. I was six once, for about a year. I have never weighed 37 lbs.
That said, here's what the father of that six year old 37 lb girl ought to do, and what I would do, if this were my child:
Go to a bar with a gravel parking lot (if there is at least one motorcycle in the lot, all the better, you're at the right place). Go in, pull up a stool, climb up on it, and tell this story. Then hire three--no, four--of the beefiest guys there (they'll probably work cheap, maybe free). Have them handcuff whomever made the decision to handcuff and commit a six year old 37 lb girl and beat their miserable ass to a pulp. Then employ approximately one gallon of Amoco Ultimate to set this wonderful person fire. But be sure to put them out right before they die from it.
I don't care if the six year old 37 lb girl pulled a knife and held it to someone's throat, their solution was extremely heavy-handed and uncalled for.:rant:
And what would you do if that kid pulled a knife and held it to your throat?
I bet you couldn't do it, Monkey--not without sustaining significant damage to yourself. An out-of-control child can be amazingly strong, and the fight-or-flight response keeps them going long after they should have collapsed in exhaustion or pain.
And after you got out of the hospital, your ass would be in jail for laying a hand on a 6 year old girl. Oh yes, self defense... tell it to the judge.
I bet you couldn't do it, Monkey--not without sustaining significant damage to yourself. An out-of-control child can be amazingly strong, and the fight-or-flight response keeps them going long after they should have collapsed in exhaustion or pain.
Be that as it may, I'm finding it difficult to envision a position where a 37 pound 6 year old could have any leverage on an adult's throat. Jut grab their hand.
This is why I say it's never too late for a late term abortion.
This is why I say it's never too late for a late term abortion.
That is why no one should be allowed to have children if they have not been properly permitted.
Be that as it may, I'm finding it difficult to envision a position where a 37 pound 6 year old could have any leverage on an adult's throat. Jut grab their hand.
True enough. The out-of-control child would not be leveraging that kind of threat like an adult would. They would be flailing, kicking, biting, and a fair amount of stabbing would just happen to get done in the process. As mentioned, my son is still less than 37 pounds, and yet we are at the point where on the rare occasion that he does still need to be restrained, laying halfway on top of him is the only safe way to do it. He has given me bruises that last for weeks, and has come very close to breaking my fingers more than once. (And lest you think this is just because I'm a chick, the same is true for my husband.) "Just grabbing his hand" is laughable. Unless you are prepared to start punching the child in the face, you are at a severe disadvantage, and you simply cannot believe the strength they can wield until you've seen it.
Lil Lookout is almost 9 years old and 52 lbs. He might have been 40 lbs when he was 6.
Although the age and weight may be important they could just as easily be irrelevent facts.
Thor is 8.5 and not yet 50lbs. Hector is 10 and only a few pounds heavier. Doctor is fine with them. Sure, they're below average, but they're heathly and on the regular charts. They're athletic and small.
tw's norms are AFU. But then are we surprised?
Be that as it may, I'm finding it difficult to envision a position where a 37 pound 6 year old could have any leverage on an adult's throat. Jut grab their hand.
You don't have kids, do you?
Even an normal kid in a normal kid tantrum has amazing strength and can be hard to overpower without causing them any physical damage.
kids arms are short and chunky, with a much bigger muscle to length ration than adults of a similar fitness level. They are STRONG.
If you take a kid to hospital to get stitches in their head, they have professional holder-downers. They are all beefy male nurses and you can see on their faces the effort they are putting in to keep the child's body still -and they do that by crossing their arms so each elbow is on a shoulder and both hands on the abdomen.. Someone else holds their head still.
Let me disqualify myself for a moment:
... I have never weighed 37 lbs...
OUCH. :eek:
The point was restraining a child that small - I was QUESTIONING whether handcuffs were really necessary. Thats all, move along.
Been here. Done this. Tough crowd, let me tell you. This thread goes on for many pages. I'll summarize my position: handcuffs on a five or six year old child is wrong.
Let me disqualify myself for a moment:
I don't have children. I don't have any children, and it's no accident. I also have never worked at, or been incarcerated in a nut-hatch. I am not now, nor have I ever been a teacher or a principal. I was six once, for about a year. I have never weighed 37 lbs.
That said, here's what the father of that six year old 37 lb girl ought to do, and what I would do, if this were my child:
Go to a bar with a gravel parking lot (if there is at least one motorcycle in the lot, all the better, you're at the right place). Go in, pull up a stool, climb up on it, and tell this story. Then hire three--no, four--of the beefiest guys there (they'll probably work cheap, maybe free). Have them handcuff whomever made the decision to handcuff and commit a six year old 37 lb girl and beat their miserable ass to a pulp. Then employ approximately one gallon of Amoco Ultimate to set this wonderful person fire. But be sure to put them out right before they die from it.
I don't care if the six year old 37 lb girl pulled a knife and held it to someone's throat, their solution was extremely heavy-handed and uncalled for.:rant:
You're fuckin-A right.
has come very close to breaking my fingers more than once.
My son has done this too. I don't let him get a hold of my fingers anymore. They simply aren't in control of their bodies like we are. Another thing he likes to do is try to break my knees backwards by jumping on my legs when I have my feet stretched out on on the foot stool or coffee table and my knees are unsupported.
Kids can be incredibly strong and have no sense of when they are hurting you. They also get out of control at times.
I would have preferred it if the teachers used some sort of padded straps to restrain the kid. Handcuffs seem so harsh. But I have no problem with an out of control child being restrained, and I think it would be worse if padded straps were standard equipment in a school. Too much potential for abuse.
You don't have kids, do you?
Three younger siblings. But maybe I was able to overpower them with similarly short and chunky kid arms of my own.
First off, gravdigger...I thought your post was hilarious. Really, it made me laugh out loud, well written funny. Funny, like a clown. :p:
Now, about that post: though the big bad men who are jumping on the idea of the ass-kicking of the restraining parties feel pretty puffy right now...did you think that perhaps if the fucking father were involved in the kid's life in the first place it might not have come to that? For instance, if Daddy of the Year had shown up for a meeting with the school about the kid's behavior, there would have probably been steps taken to get the kid help, ya think? Or even, if that kind of parental involvement had been part of the equation since the beginning the kid might not be a psycho snivelling freak-fuck future Dahmer? Clearly, the problem started long ago. Daddy, or Mommy, playing tough parent to a child of god: too late. Sheesh way too many losers procreate.
Oh no, let's teach the kid about shit-kicking and revenge. What's the next step up from Dahmer?
Now you may resume running around with your dicks in your hands, macho dudes.
...Oh no, let's teach the kid about shit-kicking and revenge. What's the next step up from Dahmer?
...
She'll be killing neighborhood cats.
According to the incident report, a deputy said Haley was out of control. It said she "kicked the wall, went over to the desk and threw the calculator, electric pencil sharpener, telephone, container of writing utensils and other objects across the desk."
BigV and Grav, would your feelings change if the electric pencil sharpener that she threw hit one of your loved ones, and did permanent damage? Broken nose, blinded, brain damage? Unlikely, but if she had good aim....
Well ah'll tell ya raht now whut I'd do, I'd take that there kid to a bar, and have the shit beaten outta them for hurtin' mah kid! [/channeling stupid]
Prolly oughta jis kill her ungrateful lil ass...
Or, we could give her a gun and send her to Iraq...
Or, we could burn her...Yeah!! YEAH!!! BURN HER!!!!! BUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRNNNNNNN HHHHHHHEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!
[Channeling STFU]If that was YOUR child, you be going up the goddamn wall. Whatever the fuck she did.[/Channeling STFU]
You'd be wrong. That has the potential to be my child, not through poor parenting but through developmental disabilities. The special education department has safe but firm restraint policies in place that have been explained very clearly to all parents. I wouldn't just be tolerant of the fact that they had restrained my child if he were physically out-of-control, I would expect it. I'd be "going up the goddamn wall" if they had allowed him to continue to endanger himself and others, in fact.
Then again, you can bet that it wouldn't have gotten to the point of arrest and psychiatric commitment for my child, because I would have shown up to the school the first damn time they called.
Seconded. Very smart Chica she is, she is. :thumb:
Bah! And harrumph!
If I had a child with developmental disabilities, I would more sensitive to calling other people (or their ideas) 'retarded'.
Bu, that's me, and she can say anything she wants.
Yeah, if you're black, you can say "the n-word" too.
Well, if you're black, or if you're Flint.
The people and organizations dealing with, or representing, children/adults with learning disabilities, resent them being called retarded. Fine, I'm down with that.
BUT, banishing the valid English word retarded, in all it's other contexts, is not. Retarded in the opposite of advanced. Quick, learning disability the spark before the engine stalls! I don't think so. Saying your idea/suggestion is retarded means not advanced, moving in the retarded (backward) direction.
retard means to slow or impede progress or movement. It's less about going backwards and more about not going forward as fast as otherwise.
Gets used quite a lot in historic analysis.
:) @ Dana, ever the school marm.
wait. Wait. WAIT! Words have more than one meaning? The hell you say.
The people and organizations dealing with, or representing, children/adults with learning disabilities, resent them being called retarded. Fine, I'm down with that.
BUT, banishing the valid English word retarded, in all it's other contexts, is not. Retarded in the opposite of advanced. Quick, learning disability the spark before the engine stalls! I don't think so. Saying your idea/suggestion is retarded means not advanced, moving in the retarded (backward) direction.
You know what she meant.
BTW: I've been writing to a friend, and I address the letters to Big Giant Bird That Rises From It's Ashes, Arizona. They always come back, wonder why?
Also: The word asshole is a valid English word too, but that doesn't mean I'd appreciate being called one.
Who said banish?
There's a difference between being an asshole and having one. ;)