Now look what Hezbollah is doing

Just so it's on the record when somebody asks why Israel is bombing locations in northern Lebanon...

WaPo:
Hezbollah's relocation of rocket sites to Lebanon's interior poses wider threat

BEIRUT -- Hezbollah has dispersed its long-range-rocket sites deep into northern Lebanon and the Bekaa Valley, a move that analysts say threatens to broaden any future conflict between the Islamist movement and Israel into a war between the two countries.

*waiting for someone to explain why hezbollah's actions are justified*

That's easy, if they keep the rockets near the border Israel might take 'em out.

Trying to justify drawing Lebanon into the conflict. Trying to say we're the evil ones for helping Israel to kill everyone in the Middle East. Or perhaps Lebanon is finally openly showing it's support of the Palestinian terrorists. Who knows? All I know is, Israel will defend itself no matter where they hide.

lookout123;629528 wrote:

*waiting for someone to explain why hezbollah's actions are justified*

Don't look for justification in any war or conflict. Both sides are concerned with tactics and strategy.

Hezbollah is putting missiles further into the interior because:

1) They can. Lebanon can't stop them and the rockets have the range.
2) They cut out any UN interference.
3) They have more warning of attack or counter-attack.

So basically they have missile sites in the interior of Lebanon for the same reason the US built ICBM sites in Kansas, because it makes tactical sense for them. Politically, this might hurt them in the eyes of the world, but I'm guessing they don't care much. People's positions have mostly ossified and they won't lose their supporters over something like this. While Christians in Lebanon might support or hold a neutral position on Israel, the rest of the country is at the least suspicious. The army is seen as weak because it is.

Lebanon's army has never tried to stop an Israeli invasion. Even though Israel is invading because of Hezbollah, I don't think a lot of the populace blame Hezbollah. I'm guessing that they might see Hezbollah as their militia.

richlevy;629596 wrote:

So basically they have missile sites in the interior of Lebanon for the same reason the US built ICBM sites in Kansas, because it makes tactical sense for them.

Obvious to anyone viewing the conflict from all sides.

Hands down, the #1 source of all conflict stems from Israel’s continuing settlement construction in the West Bank. Other problems created by Israel was the unjustified invasion of Lebanon. Those pesky rockets are less threats than automobiles in Israel. And only exists due to Israel's extremist right wing politics - which actions are the only reason that Hezbollah exists.

A fact unknown to those who did not learn how to view from all sides - whose opinions are based in propaganda.

More propaganda - Hezbollah is a threat to American. Complete nonsense. Hezbollah enforces a 'no attack on Americans' policy. That also known only if viewing the conflict from all sides.

tw;629653 wrote:

Hezbollah enforces a 'no attack on Americans' policy. That also known only if viewing the conflict from all sides.

Skip to 1:40 to hear one million Hezbollah in the Beruit streets chanting Death to America.

[youtube]2tXfIYxPGQs[/youtube]

tw;629653 wrote:

Those pesky rockets are less threats than automobiles in Israel.

I can't agree with you there. While inaccurate, the rockets are accurate enough to hit settlements. Hezbollah does this knowing Israel will have to retaliate. The Lebanese are caught in the middle. The Lebanese army can't or won't control Hezbollah.

Israel has made a lot of mistakes, but they have a right to be paranoid. Almost everyone in that region is out to get them.

richlevy;629716 wrote:

Almost everyone in that region is out to get them.

Jordan? Egypt? Saudi Arabia?

Not likely. Hezbollah only exists and how influence because of Israel's actions. And since Israel’s botched invasion, Hezbollah has never been more powerful and popular.

More interesting was an hour long discussion on Charlie Rose by a Saudi family member. Insight into the world like few have which is why Charlie spent the entire hour only on that interview.

A Middle East peace is stuck on but a few minor points – according to him. However Hezbollah is a problem. Contrary to popular beliefs, Hezbollah remains an independent organization. As influenced by Iran as Israel is controlled by the US. Independent enough that negotiation with Hezbollah are probably necessary to create any useful peace.

Hezbollah has always been available to negotiation. But Hezbollah needs an honest party to negotiate with. Netanyahu is not considered an honest negotiator – which was made even bluntly obvious in his discussion with Sen George Mitchell.

The hype of fear created by those rockets gives Hezbollah credibility. What is the greatest threat to those rockets? A peace settlement that includes Hezbollah as another party.

Of course, no solution is possible as long as the most contentious issue remains - West Bank settlements.

Also interesting (which explains Egypt's recent actions) is Hamas. As the Saudi noted, a peace settlement is easy. Just ignore Hamas. That could completely destroy Hamas. But only if Israel negotiates with the Palestinian Authority in a responsible manner - which was not happening.

That is Mitchell's task. To establish negotiators that have credibility among the counter parties. And yes, many counter parties exist making his task complex.

Undertoad;629684 wrote:

Skip to 1:40 to hear one million Hezbollah in the Beruit streets chanting Death to America.

And Rush Limbaugh preaches what? Rhetoric and reality are not always same. Want to see what extremists in every organization promote? Then simply YouTube Hannity to see how Americans openly advocate the murder of Arabs. Classic misguided propaganda.

So now we have opinions based in one sided view rather than view all viewpoints.

Reality - Hezbollah has a leadership dictate. No harm to Americans.

Now you can hype the accidental death of American. But then forget the Israeli tank that also intentionally drove over an American girl. Which proves that Israelis also want to kill Americans. Or the Israeli spy caught in the US because Israel secretly want to subvert the US.

Meanwhile, back to reality. Hezbollah's policy is to not attack Americans and America - regardless of rhetoric from extremists and single sided viewpoints.

Let’s not forget that American stands for liberty, human rights, and the rule of law. And so we have Guantanamo. How much more rhetoric need we add so that potential peace cannot happen?

tw;629751 wrote:

But then forget the Israeli tank that also intentionally drove over an American girl.

Bulldozer?

Oh, geez I remember that one. If you don't want to get run over don't protest by standing in front of a moving bulldozer.

regardless of the validity of one's cause, standing in front of bulldozer is a good way to get dead.

They're doin' it now while everyone is looking at Haiti. Classic move.

Before 9/11, Hezbollah killed more Americans via terrorism than any other person or organization.

What is the greatest threat to those rockets? A peace settlement that includes Hezbollah as another party.

They aren't interested in peace, because their entire power comes from the 50-100 million dollars of Iranian weaponry supplied to them every year.

They aren't interested in peace; they kill peacekeeping forces.

Meanwhile, notice. Israel left Lebanon. Then they were attacked from there. Israel left Gaza. Then they were attacked from there. So now the "peace solution" is get Israel out of the West Bank? You think it ends there, t? This doesn't seem to work like you think it does.

Undertoad;629807 wrote:

This doesn't seem to work like you think it does.

It may not work like you think it does either. It may not all be propaganda and racism that causes the surrounding people to hate Israel.

Undertoad;629807 wrote:

Before 9/11, Hezbollah killed more Americans via terrorism than any other person or organization.

And how many civilians has America killed. It's true that they were all 'collateral damage', but I don't think their families want to hear that. But we are telling people in Afghanistan and Iraq to move past it.

The IRA/Sinn Fein has demobilized and is part of the executive branch of Northern Ireland.

The PLO demobilized and became the Palestinian Authority.

If we move to insurgent groups for whom terror was not a tactic or at least not a major one we have such notable leaders as:

John Adams - Sons of Liberty
Yitzhak Rabin - Palmach (not Irgun)
Fidel Castro
Nelson Mandela - African National Congress/MK

BTW, of the last four, the Sons of Liberty might have been the most violent, if you consider tar and feathering an act of terrorism.

richlevy;629909 wrote:

The IRA/Sinn Fein has demobilized and is part of the executive branch of Northern Ireland.

How did George Mitchell do that? First he had to get all sides to talk. To recognize the other side had valid gripes. To appreciate that neither side really wanted conflict. IOW he had to attack and dispel the extremism of "We good; them evil".

Mitchell is trying to do same in the Middle East. But the one and only major roadblock, constantly obstructing all conversation and negotiation, is Netanyahu. So far, only Netanyahu has been the only a major obstruction. Reason why would be obvious. Netanyahu is Likud.

Likud remembers what happened to have peace with Egypt. Intends to do everything possible to never let that happen again. Why did Likud all but call for the assassination of Rabin - and get it? It's a rhetorical question that also explains why Mitchell – who could even create a Northern Ireland peace settlement – is only having constant problems with one Middle East party.

Likud will not admit that the West Bank is not theirs. Likud remembers what happened in the Sinai. A political agenda is more important than any settlement.

Really the title should read "Now look what Iran is doing".

Thread revival. Tuesday Hezbollah withdrew from its position in the Lebanese government, causing the collapse of the government and complete uncertainty at what happens next.

NY Times Op-Ed: Hezbollah's Last Suicide Mission

Why: the UN is about to announce the results of its Special Tribunal, in which they have investigated the assassination of Lebanese Prime Minister in 2005. Hezbollah has been acting as if they will be implicated.

This is an international game of chess where we, as outsiders, don't know much about the rules of the game. All we know is one side just made a huge move, and both sides' Queens seem to be at risk. Worst case is civil war, or there could be even worse cases, who knows.

Watch this space I guess. Thanks for pointing this out.

Undertoad;705442 wrote:

Thread revival. Tuesday Hezbollah withdrew from its position in the Lebanese government, causing the collapse of the government and complete uncertainty at what happens next.

NY Times Op-Ed: Hezbollah's Last Suicide Mission

Why: the UN is about to announce the results of its Special Tribunal, in which they have investigated the assassination of Lebanese Prime Minister in 2005. Hezbollah has been acting as if they will be implicated.

This is an international game of chess where we, as outsiders, don't know much about the rules of the game. All we know is one side just made a huge move, and both sides' Queens seem to be at risk. Worst case is civil war, or there could be even worse cases, who knows.

This is really going to solidify Iran's influence in the area and it's ability to maintain a proxy war with Israel. Now with the collapse of the government they just went from covert to overt.

DanaC;705444 wrote:

Watch this space I guess. Thanks for pointing this out.

UT is right on here. Lebanon is a government and country of so many parties based in religion, ethnic cultures, etc. I believe Lebanon defines 13 officially. The numbers are much higher.

Also among some Arab friends, what happened to Hariri is still "stuck in their claw". He was widely supported by a nation otherwise splintered by so many special inters tests, religions, cultures, and outside forces. Let's not for one minute forget Israel who is the reason why Hezbollah exists.

Hariri's death may be as serious in Lebanon and Kennedy's death was to America. That report will have serious side effects. Hezbollah’s pre-report actions are suspicious.

tw;705696 wrote:

Lebanon is a government and country of so many parties based in religion, ethnic cultures, etc. I believe Lebanon defines 13 officially. The numbers are much higher.

It's really interesting. In a world where borders have been set by ethnicity, beliefs, and language, here is a place more diverse than the US:



Two days ago Hezbollah made a show of force in Beirut by sending vans of black-clad young lads to specific points around the city. They weren't armed this time, is the message. The powder kegs are full. The Special Tribunal may be 6-10 weeks away from any announcement (it's unclear) but the chess game is ongoing.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=123855#axzz1BUwJCcWk

Lebanon Daily Star wrote:

Hizbullah, which has repeatedly denied involvement in Hariri’s assassination, has dismissed the S.T.L. as an “American-Israeli tool” designed to incite sectarian strife in Lebanon.

Groups of Hizbullah members, clad in black uniforms, fanned out in several neighborhoods in West Beirut early Tuesday, creating panic among the residents and leading parents to pick up their children from schools, security sources and witnesses said. The unarmed men, carrying wireless sets and handy phones, were seen in areas from the southern suburb of Hadath to Beirut’s Downtown district.

The men appeared to be well-organized and trained for fighting, the sources said. The groups, which began fanning out at 3.00 a.m. Tuesday, disbanded at 7.00 a.m. after troops and security forces deployed in the areas, the sources said. No trouble was reported during the street gatherings which were apparently linked to mounting tension over the S.T.L.’s indictment.

Hizbullah has made no comment on Tuesday’s incident or on Monday’s indictment handover to Fransen. But a source close to Hizbullah described Tuesday’s public gatherings as “a small message to say that the time for talk is over.”

Hezbollah Chooses Lebanon’s Next Prime Minister

Under threat of violence and more assasinations, after the fall of the government, factions in Lebanon fell to support Hezbollah. Now they have enough support to control the new government.

The United Nations is about to indict them for assassinating the last Prime Minister. Now they get to oust his son as PM, and appoint the next PM.

It is a bad turn of events. The north of the country, where the anti-Hezbollah Sunnis are, are seeing violent protests with the burning of the tires and the closing of the streets.

Civil war in 3... 2...

I wonder which faction is going to blow him up this time?