Cellar car issue
I think it's amusing to put this in Meta.
Need advice.
On Monday afternoon the car wouldn't start. It cranked well, but would not catch. J reminded me that we have an auto plan now, so all I have to do is call them and have them take it to my mechanic. I figured I would have one more go at it that night, but then I forgot.
On Tuesday afternoon I remembered, and I went out to try it. It still cranked well, and coughed a few times as if it was gonna catch. So I kept cranking it, and after about a minute, it started.
I was thinking I'd put it at the curb so that it could be towed easily, because clearly something is up, but then I realized J's daughter was parked behind me, and there was a smell of gas like I flooded it badly, and so I just decided to shut it off and move it out later.
Then I got distracted researching it on the net, and learned that a new starter is like $100 and that it's not too terribly hard to replace it. Then I couldn't be convinced it was the starter... well, Wednesday I went back out and tried to start it again, and damn if it didn't just start right up, BAM, like she has always done.
WTF, now I have to figure out whether to just put it off, or get a starter, or take it to the mechanic and have them do better diagnosis. So I didn't do anything yesterday, but today I had errands to run, and the car started up BAM every time.
Should I just figure that there was some sort of intermittent problem that will never happen again, and if it does I can just crank the car for two minutes until it does start? Should I order a starter and try to replace it myself? (What if I fuck up?) Or should I just take it to a pro? Remember when answering that I still have no available cash at all. Thank you.
When you say "starter" are you talking about the starter motor? Because if it "cranks well" it sounds like the starter motor is just fine.
Or are you talking about the coil?
If it's cranking, it's not the starter. :headshake
Basically, fuel, spark, & timing are the three ingredients.
Yeah, it's not the starter or it wouldn't crank.
Does the distributor cap look OK?
It's either fuel or electricity that's the problem.
Fuel lines gummed up?
Or freezing up, ie water in the fuel.
may have had a clogged fuel pump
put some STP in thar
cap/rotor? If they are fugged up ...
My Saturn had that problem in cold weather. It turned out to be a faulty temperature sensor.
Bet tw's Honda never had that problem.
I don't think it was froze; it was inside the garage, where the temps are always like 10 degrees F higher, and we barely got below freezing this week.
Was it raining there on Monday? Or below freezing? It was warm and sunny in DC, but had rained on Sunday.
Rain could point to electrical problems with the distributor cap and rotor and/or spark plug wires.
Previous recent cold temperatures, coupled with a low level of gas in the tank could mean water condensed in there and messed up the fuel. Is the gas tank almost empty?
Edit: Screw it. I just saw it lives in the garage. I got nothin.
Cap rotor could simply be worn. That can make the starting sporadic or inconsistent. Just remove the top - 2 screws, I believe and take a look at it.
Should look like this:
The problem is there are so many sensors and interlocks. Like it won't let the engine fire until the fuel pressure is up to a level that will let the calibrated fuel injectors provide a rich enough charge, or the oil pressure is sufficient.
I believe that car should be OBD-1 (On Board Diagnostics -1), so the best thing to do would be to check if any codes were set in the computer.
I don't know how Nissan works but American cars have method of reading the codes without a diagnostic analyzer.
GM, you short out the first two slots in the OBD connector under the dash. Some have a sequence of turning things like the key & brake lights on and off in a particular order. Your owners manual should tell if there is one for your car.
Then you count the flashes of the "check engine" light to get the numbers of the codes that are set, and look up the meaning of the numbers. Most of the information should be online.
edit, BTW, you can't sand the points with a matchbook striker anymore. :haha:
Dagnabbit!!
This page explains how to get to the ECU to check the OBD, but instead of two screws,
there appear to be two plastic rivets... no phillips slots in them like the picture suggests and they can't be pried loose after five minutes of trying.
That doesn't seem right. They use the OBD for state inspection, for god's sake, disassembly isn't practical. You shouldn't have to go to the ECU, there should be a connector easily available to mechanic and inspectors???
Yah there's a connector, but I don't have the tool to read it. This is the back door method for people who don't have the OBD tool.
Oh OK, They don't give you a way to read the codes without a code reader? Pep boys should read the codes out for free, or so I'm told.
Take it to a shop with the proper diagnostic equipment, and let them figger it out it will cost less in the long run. I am a trained mechanic and I know this from experience.
Or freezing up, ie water in the fuel.
I'll go along with this. Temperature changes are a drag on car start ups. I put a half bottle of heet in my tank about every 3rd fillup during the winter months.
If it does it again... a half gallon of gas over the seats and a stick match will work very well.
No no, It's check insurance policy, a half gallon of gas over the seats, and a stick match. ;)
He said it wasn't cold enough to freeze but still could be water.
Nissan has all the codes the same way. They are a series of short/long flashes with each representing a number - then you can look up the code.
I'd still take a look at the cap - it only takes about 5-10 minutes.
How does Nissan activate the flashing?
Correction - looks like it's an OBD-2, my bad.
Thats looks just like my old car Tony, it is right behind there and there is a slot for a phillips head screwdriver to start the OBD computer. I don't recall it being a difficult thing to access.
Oh wait - are those the plastic push screws holding that panel in? I still have a few of them - never could get them back in.
Maybe the previous owner had trouble getting them back in too, and glued them in.
Two types, one with a center pin that can be pulled with pliers so the button can be pried out, and the second kind that gets destroyed taking them out. Fortunately they are cheap(less than a buck), and most auto parts stores have a selection.
fuel pump? filter? carburetor?
ah I dunno
Did you check your 710 cap?
Let's just get Tony a new car.
Good idea Cap, got you covered UT ;)
Sounds weather related my cruiser has been "burping" lately. Advanced Auto, Pep Boys and Auto Pro can read your codes for you free.
Just tell them NOT to erase any, in case they're needed later.
Must be fuel then. I'm a lazy ass. If it were me, I'd pour some of that STP fuel stuff in there to take care of any water, and I'd make sure to keep the tank pretty full for a while to reduce the chance of condensation.
I wouldn't bother to get anything checked out unless it acted up again.
YMMV
It's running now, right? Don't fool with it. If it plays up again, then maybe get your mech-tech to diagnose it.
Let's just get Tony a new car.
Well, all my discretionary charitable money is going to Haiti. If I got Tony a new car, he'd have to pick it up in Port-au-Prince.
If we send him to Haiti, he won't need a car. :haha:
Good idea Cap, got you covered UT ;)
No No No.
This one. I don't think you'll need to worry about paying too much insurance, unless your neighbors store armor piercing ammunition.
And since the company is in the U.K., we can send Dana or SG to do the inspection.
How about an update, UT? Wassup?
Absolutely zero problems since that day. Did a treatment of dry gas.
Great! PMA at it's finest.
OK, the Cellar Car is experiencing intermittent rough engine and throwing the check engine light.
Some might remember that the check engine light was flashing earlier, and that I had to manage drilling out two plastic rivets in order to get to the computer to use the "back door" method to check the code. Before I could do that, the car repaired itself, which it annoyingly is failing to do this time. So I drilled out the rivets.
So the thing threw two codes, one "cylinder 4 misfire", one "multi cylinder misfire".
I looked up online and they said this is often a bad fuel injector, and how to test the fuel injectors. The resistance across each injector's connector spades should be 10-15 ohms.
It turns out that the front injectors are easy to get to and test, and the rear injectors require skill, patience and 3 hours to get to and test.
So I tested the front 3 (of a 6 cylinder engine, you see), and #2 and #4 showed 34 ohms while #6 showed 12 ohms.
So I might get two new fuel injectors and change out the known bad ones to see what that does. That's about $150 at Pep Boys. But it'll suck if one or more of the rear injectors have to be replaced too, and the only way I find out is by replacing the front bad ones and waiting for another check engine light.
Wow. you're getting quite handy, thar.
Thank you sir. I do know the electrical bits.
UT, you really only need three cylinders - the others are redundant, just like the extra engines on an airplane.
Hmmmm eBay has used parts, tested as good, for half the price... what do...
at the risk of channelling tw, you need know what's broke before you try to fix it by throwing parts at it. if you're getting multi cyl misfire, and you only have two cyls testing bad... how do you know that's the whole multi group? right, you don't. it is *definitely* OK to solve a problem like this in an iterative fashion, fix what you can see wrong in front of you, test again, fix what shows up next. That's a perfectly fine strategy.
I don't know--do you--what the possible repair/replace solution options are for a fuel injector that tests this way? What about cleaning it? Like I said, *I* don't know in this case. As for misfires, there are a hundred and one ways for a cylinder to misfire. fuel/air/fire.. it is a mystical trinity.
What to do, is still a good question. I'd focus on what it would take to get the electrical readings of those injectors you can reach back into the good range. replace or repair and then go from there.
Someone posted earlier about fuel, spark, air etc. Nowadays what with 769 sensors, computers all over the car, about all a regular Joe can do anymore is throw parts at 'em. Start with the cheapest, most pertinent-est ones.
definitely go to the auto parts store and get the code readings. being too lazy to research, what is the year make and model of the cellar car? a good friend, the same one that helped me swap transmissions, is very good at diagnosis and advice. when i get the Y/M&M i will consult him as well. if it is the injectors i recommend changing them all with new ones. another thing it may be is a bad cam position sensor if you have one on there. the Fixed Or Repaired Daily had that problem and would miss going down the freeway under stress (ie going uphill) but always cranked right up so maybe it'snot that. but worth a look see.
I got the code dude. Cylinder 4 misfire. But I can't afford to even replace the single injector that I think is bad.
This is a 1995 Maxima with a VQ30DE engine which is also found in Maximas through 2001 and Infiniti I30s from 1996-2001.
:smack: you did, didn't you. was speed reading and posting.
ok. RC recommends running prestone fuel injection cleaner through the engine even though you already ran STP through it. then let the car run for about an hour or drive it for that long before replacing the injectors. if it does come to it you can replace them with used ones. i'm on the phone with him now discussing this. lmao he just said you can go to pick a part and put them in your pocket and not pay for em. lol you have to know RC, he's got a heart of gold but will save money where he can. but do this in seriousness, take an old injector with you to make sure you get the correct ones. hope this helps.
It took forever for the eBay'd replacement injectors to arrive, but today I replaced the one saying it was bad.
Result
No more codes thrown as yet. Engine runs damn smooth. I've saved $300 by figuring this shit out off the Interwebs.
good Job !!!
Now run some injector cleaner thru it
might as well continue the thread
$800 in brake work needed to pass inspection :mecry:
I'm doing it, but this is a tough one.
You can Do it UT !!!!
Just rember to Chock ( Or scotch , or put a block of wood) behind the wheels
No this one is beyond me... it needs all new rear brakes and rotors, including one caliper replaced, and the e-brake is rusted out to boot.
disc or drum? don't forget to push back the calipers while the old pads are in there. sometimes you can do it by hand or use a c-clamp. keeps you from having to bleed'em.
I can't merge with the other car threads, that would be wrong.
I'm facing the hardest of all car problems... the electrical. I thought maybe summing it up here would get all the facts in order. But first a little history!
The Cellar Car was delivered with the issue of the right rear window being unable to roll all the way up. It was stuck 2.5" (4 cm) from the top.
This was solved in the short order: with duct tape. Put tape across the opening until no air or water will get in, and that's good enough. The only time the duct tape failed was during the folk fest, when it was left in direct sun all day, and the adhesive melted. To resolve this issue, I located a duct tape that was rated for high temperatures, as if when used on actual ducts. This higher temperature tape proved to work well when the next folk fest rolled around, and I was satisfied.
Then one day J's kid was looking for something to do, so I thought I'd be generous, and give him the work of opening up the door and putting the window in the full upright position. I figured maybe he could jam a 2x4 in there to keep it in place. I didn't care whether it went up and down.
But then the kid's friend comes around, and they're both wrenchers; so they get interested in fixing the whole thing properly. So I give them $40, and they go down to the junkyard and fetch the right window motor to actually move the window up and down.
They come back and fix the goddamn thing 100%, a fine day's work. But in the process of doing all this, they somehow run the battery down; and so at one point they jumpstart it and leave it running awhile to charge the battery.
But the next day, I find that the stereo is just dead. Display won't light up, it's just dead.
Online, people say that sometimes a dead battery does seem to kill this model of stereo, and jumpstarting might just make things worse. I check the car's fuse marked AUDIO, and it's fine, and I check the two fuses running into the stereo as part of the wiring harness, and they're both fine. So I figure the thing is just dead and I have to replace it.
Six months later and I finally find on eBay a "factory refurbished" unit cheap, not my model but one that uses the exact same wiring harness. So I figure this'll be great, I won't have to change out the harness, just slide this new unit in and it'll all work great.
So I get this new unit, and plug it into the old harness... DEAD! Except for one thing: when I hit the CD Eject button, it makes that little eject sound even though there is no CD in it.
Weird. Goddamn.
So I unplug it, and the next day I try it again. And this time when I plug it in, the car tries to raise the rear antenna with its antenna motor. It can't accomplish that, the antenna is bent and won't raise. But it tries for a moment. The whole thing is still dead, and now it won't even make the CD Eject sound.
One other clue. Located just above the stereo are the controls for heating/air conditioning. These controls are lit and a little LED lights up under each button to tell you whether your vents are pointing at your legs or at your face, and such. Well at some point those buttons stopped lighting. The LEDs work, but the lights for the icons are not lit. I don't know whether that has anything to do with it all.
bad ground ??
loose connection
If it's a Honda, ya need a radio code if batt dies. Hell I think.
bad ground ??
loose connection
that's my guess.
I have a multi-meter, so how to diagnose?
OK. Failing that, I have a pair of very nice front speakers that aren't doing anything. Can anyone think of a way to use the lighter socket to power something to then drive those speakers? I just want some sound.
Today the Cellar Car has gone into the shop. Bad wheel bearings. That's something I won't try to do. Hope it's not worse... tomorrow morning will bring the news.
How many miles are on it now?
Today the Cellar Car has gone into the shop. Bad wheel bearings. That's something I won't try to do. Hope it's not worse... tomorrow morning will bring the news.
wheel bearings are actually pretty easy to do. not unlike replacing the bearings for your skateboard wheels. the axle stub, wheel bearing, retaining nut, disc/drum, wheel, hubcap, working from the inside out if you will.
good luck. however they're replaced, you gotta replace them.
Wheel bearings on most vehicles now require a special tool to press them in. No more hand packing..
Well the guy called around noon to ask more questions about the noise I heard, and it seemed like they didn't find bad bearings because why else would he ask?
But the thing is, it's now three hours later, no call. Is that good news or bad news? I'm dyin' heah, I'm dyin!
*giggling*
Give the man some help here folks, he's dying!
It's like waiting for the doctor to call. When my CRX died my car place went to get the owner to break the news it was irretrievable. I knew I was in trouble when they said "um, hang on a minute, let me get Mark."
Maybe you could pawn the Cellar car and get something nice.
what was the noise like? a constant hum, or a clunking?
heresy!
Wheresy? :unsure:
We were in the CVS parking lot, and I was turning 5 degrees right when it first happened. J looked at me and said did you just run over a grate? Because that's exactly what it sounded like, running over a grate. Except that there was no grate, and it was coming from only one tire, the right rear one.
So on the drive home it makes this sound a few times. So when I get to my street, I open the windows and drive at about 15 mph, and gently zip-zag so I'm turning right and left. And it happens during the right-turn sway, repeatedly.
The thing is, I needed the money from the pawn shop shift, so the next day I boldly drove it down the expressway and into North Philly. And it didn't make the noise once.
To my mind, this meant the entire assembly had gone completely, and that the entire wheel might now fly off at highway speeds, on the most dangerous road in the state. And then I would be "that guy" who fucks up the Schuylkill at rush hour by driving a car he knew was in disrepair.
But as we know, the Cellar Car is often self-healing.
Still no call... ugh, does their shop close in 25 miinutes?
Did your check wheel bearing light come on? If so, please provide the codes.
Did your check wheel bearing light come on? If so, please provide the codes.
:lol:
My check engine light is on, and my right back quarter panel and wheel well and bumper are off.
What are the codes for that?
grr called them got no answer left message
Ah returned! It turned out to be a sticky brake caliper, which they replaced under warranty since they had done the break work last time. So it is less costly than I thought! Victory!
yeah, i was thinking maybe a strut or the mounting tower. free is much better. go go cellar car, go!
yeah, i was thinking maybe a strut or the mounting tower.
I was thinking CV joint(s)
I was thinking something stuck up in there that fell off at high speed on the highway.
meh - Good win! ;)
:lol:
My check engine light is on, and my right back quarter panel and wheel well and bumper are off.
What are the codes for that?
Sorry, I can't answer that until you answer the Camaro Mullet question in that other thread.
The Cellar Car has car cancer. Rust. (Fuck car cancer!)
I had seen one of the seven warning signs around on the of the bumpers, but it didn't occur to me that it could have spread more widely.
My mechanic, who is awesome, gives it a year. They rust-proofed it (undercoating!!) with a can of some spray to give it the last year run.
That's all fine, it's about what I expected. I'm going to get it to 200k and then plan my next ride.
If all goes well with foot's get rich quick scheme, you'll be able to drive anything you want!
The Cellar Car has car cancer. Rust. (Fuck car cancer!)
I had seen one of the seven warning signs around on the of the bumpers, but it didn't occur to me that it could have spread more widely.
My mechanic, who is awesome, gives it a year. They rust-proofed it (undercoating!!) with a can of some spray to give it the last year run.
That's all fine, it's about what I expected. I'm going to get it to 200k and then plan my next ride.
I know where there is a VW vanagon for $1200. brown and tan. dunno if runs... i just see it on the way to disc golf at french creek. looks like you, bro.
I may need AWD to leave home in the winter
I may need AWD to leave home in the winter
what kind of 4x4 says UT?
First thought is Impreza WRx
An R32 would be better, but they are too damned much money. Top 5 in resale value. Sucks. I want one....
I give props to my SX-4. I don't know what the used market looks like.
My mama is considering giving me her Forester when she gets a new vehicle
There is almost nothing UT about it.
Big enough for band gear though.
what kind of 4x4 says UT?
He needs a full-blown hummer.;)
My mama is considering giving me her Forester when she gets a new vehicle
There is almost nothing UT about it.
yeah, I'm against that.
You'd have guys hitting on you daily.
How else do you think he'd get his hummer blown?
The Cellar Car is in for wheel alignment as it's pulling to the right. When a car has cancer it can go at any time, so if she has to be junked today...
First thought is Impreza WRx
None really available at the $5000 price point
It's gonna be the 1999-2001 Pathfinder?
Should I be keeping an eye out then?
Dunno yet - still waiting on the wheel alignment news!
And with that he called. Thinks my wandering is due to unevenly worn tires. When they rotated back to front, the wheels were in spec and the car stayed in lane.
Hold off on the funeral just yet
That's a good mechanic, just rotating your tires when he could have charged for unneeded work.
I think so! Good sign. He detailed that the rust hadn't gotten to the suspension yet, and said I should probably change out the two bad tires, and we even agreed on which tire place to use. (Creamery Tire. Sweet, Creamery Tire.)
Ok, cool. Well I'll let you know if we trade anything good just the same. Might be able to get a few $$ in trade for the cellar car. (thanks for not naming it, btw)
score
Nice! Do you remember how many miles are yours?
That makes me smile. Awesome.
The Cellar Car electrical system has always been slowly dying but yesterday's failure is comical. We were driving in the hot afternoon yesterday when suddenly the AC fan quit.
Like a lotta car interior fans, this one works on a knob and has settings from 0 to 4 to vary how hard the wind is blowing. Well the fan only works on "4" now. If you set it from 1 to 3 there is no fan. Set it to 4, and the fan is on, at speed 4.
The knob still controls the AC condenser, because you can hear it turn on when you move it from 0 to 1.
Also I think one of my rear tires is dying. So now we have a race to see whether the Car dies before its appointed end of life in October, when it will fail inspection.
How many miles have you gotten out of it?
30K
It is such a POS now that it's really just funny. The paint is in the worst condition you can imagine. J and her daughter removed snow from it 3 years ago with shovels, and of course they left big scratches in the paint on the hood and trunk hatch. Well those scratches expanded as a layer of paint chipped off. It looks terrible! But I just laugh!
The fan has a resistor array, which has failed, so you only have full speed.
Well that makes sense!
It's just death by a thousand cuts now.
Rear strut mount failure.
oops!
I know a good suspension guy, but he's down here in Pennsauken.
you got this handled, or do you need some help?
I have a local guy I'm waiting for a call back from. I just hope it's just the strut mount and nothing additional. I was planning the end-of-life at the end of October when the inspection runs out.
There was a recall on older pathfinder strut mounts. Email me your vin, and I will ask service about your car.
I just dropped it off with my local guy...!
The entire strut assembly has rotted out. They are replacing it. $300 gets me 10 more weeks of life.
Ok, it's the strut itself, not the tower that it mounts to then.
Regarding PA inspection. ... there are more than one way to inspect a cat.
wink wink nudge nudge knowadimean
Fill the glove box with
this at $2.50 a gram. I've seen "inspections" done for less.
I dunno. I dunno.
I was willing to just sticker it last year, but this thing is getting seriously unsafe. If strut towers are rusting away, what else is? A failure like that at the wrong time could be a disaster. I drive the Schuylkill into the ghetto.
The Cellar Car electrical system has always been slowly dying but yesterday's failure is comical. We were driving in the hot afternoon yesterday when suddenly the AC fan quit.
Like a lotta car interior fans, this one works on a knob and has settings from 0 to 4 to vary how hard the wind is blowing. Well the fan only works on "4" now. If you set it from 1 to 3 there is no fan. Set it to 4, and the fan is on, at speed 4.
....
The fan has a resistor array, which has failed, so you only have full speed.
Well that makes sense!
....
I had this trouble in my "new" second-hand car (a Volkwagen Polo, since you ask). It's fixed now with a new ... uh ... resistor array :)
I dunno. I dunno.
I was willing to just sticker it last year, but this thing is getting seriously unsafe. If strut towers are rusting away, what else is? A failure like that at the wrong time could be a disaster. I drive the Schuylkill into the ghetto.
I lost a transmission last month when the cooling lines rusted through and blew the fluid out.
I know of three cases this year of brake lines failing, but of course they're all dual systems now so you'll be able to stop and clean the shit out of your pants.;)
I'd rather see the strut problem dealt with than a dealer paid off with 420. Your life (or somebody else's) is worth more than that, UT.
I had this trouble in my "new" second-hand car (a Volkwagen Polo, since you ask). It's fixed now with a new ... uh ... resistor array :)
Why didn't you just have Geordie make one out of dilithium crystals?