Earthquake
I've been seeing reports on the earthquake that struck Haiti & the Dominican republic. This is terrible and I have been worried sick. Does anyone know if this affected the cigar factories in the DR?
Well I just found out how bad it is & I regret my earlier joke. They are reporting the capitol is destroyed and over 100,000 feared dead. Hey not even I am this callous of a bastard. Thoughts & prayers out to those affected
It is absolutely tragic what happened in Haiti. Thousands need medical care which they are unable to obtain. Many wait to be pulled from ruins of buildings, but rescuers may not be able to reach them in time and there are shortages of safe drinking water and food. It is feared that many people will become ill due to the lack of safe water and through breathing in the dust from the rubble. :(
Unbelievably bad situation. Better hit a charity... we're going
Red Cross if anyone has another option post it.
A co-worker and his wife have been sponsoring a child in Port-Au-Prince, last I heard they have no news of what has happened to the child or family. Its a very heart wrenching situation.
In addition to giving blood and donating to the Red Cross, I've found
World Food Programme
UNICEF
Salvation ArmyIt's worse than I could possibly imagine... pictures from
Boston.comHaiti is one of the poorest countries in the world. This has destroyed what little they had.
Looking at those pictures, I'm struck by the lack of rebar poking out of the chunks of concrete. I know they are poor, and building practices are different all over the world and throughout the years, but I thought rebar was pretty standard when making stuff out of concrete. Concrete just isn't strong enough when it isn't reinforced internally with metal bar. They didn't have a chance.
It's so horrible and sad. My heart wrenches every time I hear a new report. The poorest country in the world experiences the worst natural disaster in terms of devastation ever...it's impossible to really fathom. :(
How unbelievably sad.
Doctors without Borders gets my dinero.
It makes me want to cry. Those poor people already had plenty of suffering to go around and now this. I'm donating to my church fund and to Oxfam.
Sent what little I could to my church. My brother is on his way there tomorrow to help out.
I wish I had the flexability to go.
In the mean time try this:
Red Cross: Text to Help
KSBI News
Story Created: Jan 14, 2010 at 11:53 AM CST
(Story Updated: Jan 14, 2010 at 11:59 AM CST )
Oklahoma City, Okla. – The American Red Cross urges every Oklahoman wanting to help with the relief efforts in Haiti to take action and pick up their cell phone.
“When a disaster of this magnitude occurs, we understand people want to reach out and help. Everyone can make a difference through a simple text,” said Vince Hernandez, CEO of the American Red Cross of Central Oklahoma.
The public can text “HAITI” to"90999" and a donation of $10 will be given automatically to the Red Cross to help with relief efforts, charged to your cell phone bill.
http://www.ksbitv.com/news/81521772.htmlI hope help gets there soon
Looking at those pictures, I'm struck by the lack of rebar poking out of the chunks of concrete. I know they are poor, and building practices are different all over the world and throughout the years, but I thought rebar was pretty standard when making stuff out of concrete. Concrete just isn't strong enough when it isn't reinforced internally with metal bar. They didn't have a chance.
You're right. I noticed the same thing, last time I poured a concrete wall the rebar cost more than the concrete and insulated forms combined.
That country is poorer than poor. I hope the aid isn't looted by gangs. That would suck.
You're right. I noticed the same thing, last time I poured a concrete wall the rebar cost more than the concrete and insulated forms combined.
ditto
They probably would have to import it making it even more expensive.
This is a particularly financially tight time for me, but I'm gonna come up with $10 at a minimum. Every little bit helps, right?
I think I'm going with the Red Cross. This whole country has effectively been leveled. It's just horrific to see.
Wow. Text 90999. I heard about this in a couple places, and wanted to check it out, so I found
this article.
This is remarkable not just because of the technology, but because it changes the landscape of America's philanthropy.
Less than 48 hours after the deadly 7.0 earthquake devastated Haiti, the American Red Cross received $5 million in donations through mobile texting, all at $10 a click.
It could create a whole new generation of philanthropists. Young adults who sometimes text more than they talk will step into the world of charity the same way they download another ringtone.
"They're not going to donate by direct mail, and they're not going to a $200, black-tie gala," Naegele said. "But this is something they can do."
Looking at those pictures, I'm struck by the lack of rebar poking out of the chunks of concrete. I know they are poor, and building practices are different all over the world and throughout the years, but I thought rebar was pretty standard when making stuff out of concrete. Concrete just isn't strong enough when it isn't reinforced internally with metal bar. They didn't have a chance.
I read an article yesterday which hinted that building codes there are just not enforced for whatever reason. I can't image a concrete code that doesn't require steel rebar. It could hold against idealistic pure compression alright but once put into tension, which is impossible to avoid as well, the concrete loses about 10 times its strength.
I read an article yesterday which hinted that building codes there are just not enforced for whatever reason. I can't image a concrete code that doesn't require steel rebar.
Listed among fallen buildings was Citigroup's new (3 year old?) bank building. That would have been to superior standards.
Appreciate the lesson. Haiti has not had a serious quake in 200 years. The North American and Caribbean plates meet there. About 11 years ago, geologists warned that tremendous pressures had concentrated in this region. Nobody was building for a quake of that magnitude. 200 years and nobody wanted to know.
The New Madrid quake is also overdue. That Missouri quake was the most violent in American history. So the new TN stadium was built without any earthquake protection - to cut costs.
It's not just Haiti. Central USA is ripe for the same problem where everything is built using standard construction. That earthquake typically occurs every 100 years. Is decades overdue.
How serious is this Haiti quake? Well, a 7.0 tremor was followed by at least 42 aftershocks - everyone registering 4+ and 5+ on the Richter scale. That much energy was ready to go. Even the new Citibank building that used standard reinforced concrete techniques completely pancaked - all floors. Even Haiti's 100 year old presidential palace did not disintegrate that completely.
All the reporting is about how much money is being poured into aid. For one, stfu and just send people with crates of water, buckets of drugs and earthquake know-how. I don't care what is costs. I don't care what you label me. Those are real people.
The airport is overwhelmed. Planes full of aid are circling and then flying away to land on other nearby islands because the single runway airport can't handle them. The control tower isn't working and the terminal is heavily damaged. There's no room to park multiple planes once they land.
The seaport is damaged as well.
The airport is overwhelmed. Planes full of aid are circling and then flying away to land on other nearby islands because the single runway airport can't handle them. The control tower isn't working and the terminal is heavily damaged. There's no room to park multiple planes once they land.
The seaport is damaged as well.
Guess we need to send boats with aid. Big boats with lotso little boats that can land on the beaches, ect, to ferret stuff and people back and forth.
All the reporting is about how much money is being poured into aid. For one, stfu and just send people with crates of water, buckets of drugs and earthquake know-how. I don't care what is costs. I don't care what you label me. Those are real people.
The money is to pay for stuff that's already on the way, and the years of aid they'll need in the future. It's important the companies scrambling to put all the shit together are reassured they'll get paid eventually, and not have to worry about being bankrupted.
I was surprised when I went to my employer's internal website, to donate by payroll deduction.
2004 Indian Ocean tsunami = $1 million, plus 100% matching of all employee donations.
Haiti = $50k, plus no matching.
There are so many people/groups collecting, I worry how much will be siphoned off, or just plain stolen? :(
I'm not saying they don't need money, I'm saying the money is not the most important thing to be reporting on. Tell me to send money then show me people getting help, or not getting help, not a groomed clean presenter telling me how much money the government has promised and how that compares to other governments and other disaster. as I switched channels it was all about the money -grand totals, not that more is needed. :(
Google Earth has
overlays that you can install in that program so you can see the latest data from satellite imagery. Each one of these red dot can be clicked on to read details on what it is. Most are collapsed buildings.
You know, this is a good reminder. When the shit hits the fan, whether bum fuck Haiti, or Peoria, Illinois, you best be prepared to take care of yourself, at least survive, for a week or more. It takes that long for governments and large organizations to get up to speed.:eyebrow:
That's true in most cases, but if all your supplies are at the bottom of a pile of rubble, it doesn't help you too much.
Still, there's stuff you can make sure you know - and maybe you can have more than one emergency base
That's why all my supplies are up in trees.
just sayin.
Actually, it'll keep you busy digging for them, instead of just standing around.:blush:
Seriously though, how and where you stash your emergency gear, takes some thought.
I recently bought an emergency radio from the Red Cross when they were on campus for a safety event. It has a flashlight, a radio, of course, and a plug for cell phone charging. It works with a little crank.
But I've never really thought about being in an emergency situation. I think I should have, at least, some water and canned goods somewhere. My bare cabinets wouldn't get me far in an emergency.
You know, this is a good reminder. When the shit hits the fan, whether bum fuck Haiti, or Peoria, Illinois, you best be prepared to take care of yourself, at least survive, for a week or more. It takes that long for governments and large organizations to get up to speed.:eyebrow:
Yeah. :right:
So what do you do if you're
so poor you can't feed your family today, let alone for some unspecified week in the future?
[I]Haiti is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere with 80% of the population living under the poverty line and 54% in abject poverty.[/I]
Are you saying that, since poor people can't be prepared for natural disaster, none of us should be? :confused:
I don't think Bruce was saying these folks should have been prepared, I think he was saying that those of us who can be prepared should think about it.
So what do you do if you're so poor you can't feed your familytoday, let alone for some unspecified week in the future?
You die... bubye.
I recently bought an emergency radio from the Red Cross when they were on campus for a safety event. It has a flashlight, a radio, of course, and a plug for cell phone charging. It works with a little crank.
But I've never really thought about being in an emergency situation. I think I should have, at least, some water and canned goods somewhere. My bare cabinets wouldn't get me far in an emergency.
Don't forget any pets you may have either. I have a stash of canned foods for my cats just in case.
PS Although I can't really imagine any natural disaster happening in the 4 Corners. We don't rest on any fault zones; a hurricane would never make it this far inland; We are on top of a mesa surrounded by desert, so floods are out. It would have to be a freak snowstorm that went on for days or the Navajos finally getting fed up and going for seccesion.
I don't think Bruce was saying these folks should have been prepared
That's exactly how I read his statement -- it's their own fault if they don't have supplies to ride out this disaster.
You die... bubye.
See?
No dummy, I wasn't talking about them, I was talking about us. If you have an internet connection, you can damn well afford to make some preparations for an emergency where you have to be self sufficient for a week or more. :p
And if we stock some extra, we might be able to help a neighbor. Many of my neighbors are old folks on fixed incomes.
You're all set then. With all those old folks around, you can just steal their shit while they're in the bathroom... unless they've got flowmax or something.;)
Nooo, they're all so sweet and friendly! :)
Guess we need to send boats with aid. Big boats with lotso little boats that can land on the beaches, ect, to ferret stuff and people back and forth.
Big boats are out - the port is unusable. The US military is trying to send stuff in using amphibious vehicles and helicopters.
Nooo, they're all so sweet and friendly! :)
Are you saving them to be your survival rations? Yum, yum, yum?
Don't forget any pets you may have either. I have a stash of canned foods for my cats just in case.
PS Although I can't really imagine any natural disaster happening in the 4 Corners. We don't rest on any fault zones; a hurricane would never make it this far inland; We are on top of a mesa surrounded by desert, so floods are out. It would have to be a freak snowstorm that went on for days or the Navajos finally getting fed up and going for seccesion.
You know pretty lovely Yellowstone? That awesome tourist attraction with the really neat mud pools and geysers?
Its a super volcano. HUGE well of lava storing up underneath. If that thing blows (or any of the other super volcanos around the world blow), we're all pretty well fucked. If Yellowstone blows, the North American continent is especially fucked. I believe Yellowstone is very past-due on its regular eruption.
Oh yes, Badda-Boom... Big Badda-Boom. :mg:
Huh? I had no idea! What about Jellystone, is Jellystone safe?
Better than gallstones, but not safe, no. :headshake
Last April, the US Navy's hospital ship
USNS Comfort spent 11 days in Haiti as part of its 2009 humanitarian aid tour of Latin America. While in Haiti, they treated 6,731 patients and performed 161 surgeries. At the beginning of this week, they were in a state of reduced operations in Baltimore harbor. They normally need 5 days to prepare to ship out. They got the order on Wednesday, will be ready to leave tomorrow morning, and should be in Haiti on Thursday. When they get there, they will probably anchor off the coast, and let helicopters bring patients to them.
The Comfort started life as an oil tanker in the 1970s, and was converted to a hospital ship in 1987. She has beds for 1000 patients.
Around a week and a half from the earthquake until she's on site, but for the people she will treat,
Comfort will be very good to see again.
HA HA HA Bruce beat me to it - nifty site there eh -
[CENTER]Posted by geologist Christopher C. Sanders on January 1, 2009.
"I am advising all State officials around Yellowstone National Park for a potential State of Emergency. In the last week over 252 earthquakes have been observed by the USGS. We have a 3D view on the movement of magma rising underground. We have all of the pre warning signs of a major eruption from a super volcano. - I want everyone to leave Yellowstone National Park and for 200 miles around the volcano caldera."
_____________________________________________________
NEW YELLOWSTONE WEBCAM
RECENT QUAKES IN YELLOWSTONE
YELLOWSTONE CALDERA GROWING AGAIN
COSMIC DUST CLOUD - INCOMING
updated as reports come in
[COLOR="Red"]THIS MAY BE IT!!!
YOU'VE BEEN WARNED BEFORE!!!![/COLOR][/CENTER]
A family member thinks I'm insane because I've got GoBags stashed at different locations (Family, friends, work) around the city. At home I've got sufficient supplies to keep the 4 of us rolling along for more than a month. While we can't prepare for every possibility, my family does have a basic gameplan in case of some emergencies.
If power and communications are lost during working hours, who goes where? Who goes for the kids? How? If we can't reach the house, where do we meet? If the whole valley is jacked, where do we go?
I know I will probably never use any of what I've prepared but I seriously doubt I'll be on my deathbed and regret having wasted time and energy on the preparations.
Fuckin' A, locked and loaded. :thumb:
Eh, I'm not a complete nutter living in a shack in the woods, but I would like at least a fighting chance at keeping my family alive if the shit ever really hits the fan.
and well, to tell the truth, some of the things I've got are a hell of a lot of fun to play with .
Boston.com, 48 hours after.
From the link - Seems like they have their own tw :rolleyes:
How can the Haitian PM refer to this disaster as "Unimaginable" and how is everyone so shocked when for years the Haitian government permitted substandard building codes knowing all along that a fault line ran through their country and a large quake had been predicted. The combination of [criminal] apathy and tolerance of excessive population growth made for an "predictable" and inevitable scenario which sadly has now become a terrible reality...
[SIZE="1"][RIGHT]Posted by RB 2012 January 15, 10 02:06 AM[/RIGHT][/SIZE]
No, we just share our TW with the world. That is the real reason the world hates us. Bush was a minor annoyance in comparison.
I would like at least a fighting chance at keeping my family alive if the shit ever really hits the fan.
Good for you, Lookout. I'm sure your family is grateful for your planning and prepwork.
I guess that's where I fail then -- I'd rather be dead if the shit hits the fan. The only reason I'm still alive is I can't think of anything else to do. :yelsick:
dead doesn't bother me. starving to death bothers me. death from dehydration bothers me. having some dipshit with a gun dictating the rules to me bothers me. I can plan and prepare to hold those dangers off.
A building falling on me? Eh, whatever, death isn't that big a deal.
I recently bought an emergency dildo from the Red Cross when they were on campus for a safety event. It has a flashlight, a radio, of course, and a plug for cell phone charging. It works with a little crank.
But I've never really thought about being in an emergency situation. I think I should have, at least, some water and canned goods somewhere. My bare cabinets wouldn't get me far in an emergency.
I think I need glasses or more sleep.
Good for you, Lookout. I'm sure your family is grateful for your planning and prepwork.
I guess that's where I fail then -- I'd rather be dead if the shit hits the fan. The only reason I'm still alive is I can't think of anything else to do. :yelsick:
I'm same as you Pie. My emergency plan for emergencies will be a gun with 1 bullet. Maybe I should hoard prescription painkillers too, just incase I mess up with the gun.
I think I need glasses or more sleep.
Heh, why, did something in that post read funny? (Funny haha
or funny strange?) :p
The next time i meet a building inspetor i think i'll buy him or her lunch. I dont think the're liked very much.
Depends on the building inspector. We had a great one who knew why the codes were in place and worked with you to help you solve problems.
The new inspector was standing in a room I'd built that had two exits (on opposite sides of the room) that both led to the street. She was going on and on about how the window openings were 1/2" shy of code for egress, failing to note that with the extra exit the room could have been windowless and still would have passed egress inspection. Fenestration, not so much.
The fact the house was built entirely of leaves held together with my spit didn't go over so well, but that's another issue.
OK, but still, what was up with my post that you needed sleep or glasses (curiosity killing the cat, here.)
Read what he quoted, not what you wrote.
Deployed troops are getting emergency leave if they have immediate family in Haiti. I think it is a good move. They did the same thing for troops affected by Hurricane Katrina.
Read what he quoted, not what you wrote.
D'oh! Thanks pierce. :p
I was just checking out my RADIO wondering if I should find a picture of it because apparently my post wasn't explaining it very well. :lol:
So I'm thinking about all this donation business. Some more.
Even stupid people aren't that stupid to think donate a buck today, tomorrow 5 people will get a bottle of water. They see the aid on the way, they figure they don't need to donate as it's already paid for and shipped.....
So wouldn't it be better to run the campaign along the lines of "we're using our supplies to help these people, we need to replenidh them for next time... next time it could be you......"
So wouldn't it be better to run the campaign along the lines of "we're using our supplies to help these people, we need to replenidh them for next time... next time it could be you......"
I disagree. From what I've seen, all successful media campaigns have always appealed to people's emotional side and not their logical side. If a donation campaign has a sense of urgency to it where the audience is hinted that their donation can immediately have an effect, it will probably be more successful. If a donation campaign focuses on people's logical side, it probably won't be as successful.
Maybe a jingle would help. They could have search and rescue workers shouting into collapsed buildings ...
[COLOR="White"][Tony Orlando][/COLOR]
"Knock three times on the ceiling if you want me
Twice on the pipe, if the answer is no."[COLOR="white"]
[/Dawn][/COLOR]
You sick fuck.
:lol::blush:
Eh, I'm not a complete nutter living in a shack in the woods, but I would like at least a fighting chance at keeping my family alive if the shit ever really hits the fan.
Hey, why you dragging me into this?
In general, we Earthlings are coming together to help these folks in their time of great need. Why weren't we there before? Why weren't we able to help them build houses with rebar? Why weren't we there to ensure that they had a couple days of survival supplies?
And why are we so generous to these people, and we don't want to help out our neighbors when it comes to the healthcare issue? Is anybody worrying about the cost of helping Haiti the way some of us are worrying about the cost of the proposed healthcare bill?
Because we tend to only act when we are being affected by something physically or emotionally. This loss of life affected us emotionally so we reacted with aid.
Oh, that and the tax deduction... :)
Seriously, I think the whole texting donation angle has proven to be a huge success. Stick to the groups that you know do the good work, like the American Red Cross. We have slowly donated a good sum over the last few days through various means. Today at Fresh Market we added a sum to our final bill. It is all good work.
In general, we Earthlings are coming together to help these folks in their time of great need. Why weren't we there before? Why weren't we able to help them build houses with rebar? Why weren't we there to ensure that they had a couple days of survival supplies?
And why are we so generous to these people, and we don't want to help out our neighbors when it comes to the healthcare issue? Is anybody worrying about the cost of helping Haiti the way some of us are worrying about the cost of the proposed healthcare bill?
Because this is an emotional hook. A baby in a collapsed in a building??? OMG here's my debit card.
Why weren't we there helping them rebar? Because it is not our fucking job to go do everything for everybody. Why didn't we make sure they had survival supplies? It isn't our fucking job. I'm more interested in whether or not my neighbor has supplies - because that could possibly effect me in the future. Haiti? Like to help but resources are finite.
I can't agree more LO123. But a small donation is appropriate if it fits your budget. If everyone does a small bit it will add up. Anyone who has traveled to third world countries knows that you could give all of your wealth and little would change in the end. But if I can reach out and touch someone or some group for a moment in time I feel that I have at least contributed. It may seem trite but that is my approach. I try to give more closer to home but there should be no guilt in reaching out beyond the borders when in time of crisis.
I think doing what you can right now to help someone is a good thing. Hell, I once knew a guy who gave something to somebody once. I thought that was kind of good. I was commenting more on the "why didn't we do something before" sentiment.
I'm sick of the US trying to fix and help every country in the world when we still have some many in need in our country. So many times, we have rushed to the aid of others to have them become our enemies later. The US has pledged 100 billion and deployed 10,000 troops. These are assets we sorely need in Afghanistan. Why does the world expect the US lead the way in rescuing Haiti? Why doesn't some other nation take the lead?
That all being said, we have Operation Cigar Sarge. Our cigar club is donating all of our money pooled for our monthly cigar order. Plus, we are selling our "cigar reserve" in a fund raising drive for the relief effort. Our goal is to raise $1,000
I know it sounds like I am talking out of both sides of my mouth when you compare the two paragraphs. What can I say?
I know it sounds like I am talking out of both sides of my mouth when you compare the two paragraphs. What can I say?
Nothing you need to say, Sarge. You sound like a human being who has been there and experienced that and is just talking the hurtful but honest truth.
I'm sick of the US trying to fix and help every country in the world when we still have some many in need in our country. So many times, we have rushed to the aid of others to have them become our enemies later. The US has pledged 100 billion and deployed 10,000 troops. These are assets we sorely need in Afghanistan. Why does the world expect the US lead the way in rescuing Haiti? Why doesn't some other nation take the lead?
:notworthy
Wait, why would you need those assets in Afghanistan -another country the US is trying to "fix" and one whose problems weren't aided by natural disaster.
Why should the world look to the US above other countries to help in Haiti? Maybe because it's a huge, rich country, right next door, which is always bragging about how awesome and christian it is?
Wait, why would you need those assets in Afghanistan -another country the US is trying to "fix" and one whose problems weren't aided by natural disaster.
?
I have several friends who are stationed in Afghanistan, and my policatically uneducated knowledge of the the situation is that the assets that are needed there are NOT so much for the citizens of the country as the American soliders who are there on orders from our country. They need goods that we take for granted such as decent toilet paper and sun screen because while we are complaining of the cold, they are fighting in sand storms.
*just my 2 cents worth*
Just pull them out. Like Big Sarge said, why does the US have to be the one to "help"? There's plenty of TP back home. my 2c.
And here's what MLK had to say on the whole issue
"The time has come for an all-out world war against poverty. The rich nations must use their vast resources of wealth to develop the underdeveloped, school the unschooled, and feed the unfed. Ultimately a great nation is a compassionate nation. No individual or nation can be great if it does not have a concern for "the least of these". Deeply etched in the fiber of our religious tradition is the conviction that men are made in the image of God and that they are souls of infinite metaphysical value, the heirs of a legacy of dignity and worth. If we feel this as a profound moral fact, we cannot be content to see men hungry, to see men victimized with starvation and ill health when we have the means to help them. The wealthy nations must go all out to bridge the gulf between the rich minority and the poor majority.
In the final analysis, the rich must not ignore the poor because both rich and poor are tied in a single garment of destiny. All life is interrelated, and all men are interdependent. The agony of the poor diminishes the rich, and the salvation of the poor enlarges the rich. We are inevitably our brothers' keeper because of the interrelated structure of reality."
Very nice, Monster. I just realized that I have been feeling sad all day and didn't know why. Then I thought about it and remembered I'd started my day by reading a number of horrific reports about Haiti. Such tragedy. I wish I could do more to help, just as I wish I could do more about all the suffering and inequalities of this terrible beautiful world we live in.
You can. it isn't all about money. At least not your money. Use your words, your passion to persuade those who can help financially to do so, whatever it is that you feel needs doing. Lead by example. The example being a "can do" attitude, not a "well I'd love to help, but I'm in no position to" kind of thing. You'll be amazed at what you can achieve if you really try. If you have no $$, volunteer to man the donation phonelines or stuff envelopes or drive the aid truck... if you truly want to help, there is a niche for you. And if you truly want to help, you will find it.
I agree with you, monster. When a person spends their time saying, 'someone needs to do something about...' it usually means they, themselves are the ones who need to do the task at hand.
I also strongly believe in 'charity beginning at home'. On a side note, why is it so much easier and less expensive to adopt a child from overseas when we have so many children here in this country who need permanent homes but can't be adopted due to all the red tape the American government places on adoption?
You might be able to get a deal on a Haitian kid right now.
Um... we have plenty of older children here in this country who need permanent homes. There are waiting lists that are years long for healthy newborn babies in this country. It's easy to adopt newborns overseas because they have lots, lots more of them. It's also cheaper, to be sure, but there are lots of couples willing to pay the price of an American adoption, and they still have to wait for years.
Hell, Bruce, I would imagine that most of the adults right now would be willing to be adopted too!
1st: A large number of people who are donating and helping in the Haiti crisis probably have regular causes the contribute to. They could be diverting funds from their norm and less pressing issues, or just giving for the Haiti crisis in addition to their norm. That being said, we (the US) have a large amount of disposable income, and there is a lot of selfishness.
2nd: As much as I want our troops in Afghanistan/Iraq to live decently (I have friends there too.) I'd much rather solve the problem of them having shortages by bringing them home. Plus, that sounds more like a supply requisition failure or mismanagement than a lack of funds. Although the troops lives are in danger, a lack of TP and toothpaste isn't nearly as pressing as having a building on top of you.
3rd: Why be upset about US children not getting adopted in favor of foreign children? What about all the parents who goes through loads of cash for fertility treatments and invitro, they could be adopting. Those medical costs add up to probably the cost of adoption or more, can take years, and potentially hazardous to the health of mom. I personally think of adoption (from any country) as being more beneficial to humanity and the child. That's my personal belief and choice, I'm not willing to force it on others.
The "red tape" in the US may suck, but I imagine it helps children from being adopted and really pressed into various forms of slavery, which does happen in countries with less "red tape." Like 'fobble said, its difficult to adopt a newborn in the US because of supply and demand, not just because of red tape.
Um... there are lots of couples willing to pay the price of an American adoption, and they still have to wait for years.
I am very much aware of that and that is part of my point. Why is it so hard here to adopt? I see kids returned everyday by dfacs to abusive, neglectful parents while childless couples desperately wanting kids (babies or not) get turned down for stupid reasons such as too old, too poor, house not big enough, car not big enough. Basically stupid excuses.
I am very much aware of that and that is part of my point. Why is it so hard here to adopt? I see kids returned everyday by dfacs to abusive, neglectful parents while childless couples desperately wanting kids (babies or not) get turned down for stupid reasons such as too old, too poor, house not big enough, car not big enough. Basically stupid excuses.
Maybe you should look into the reasons for the guidelines before dismissing them as "stupid."
Children being returned to bad biological relatives is unrelated to adults being unable to adopt.
Maybe you should look into the reasons for the guidelines before dismissing them as "stupid."
Children being returned to bad biological relatives is unrelated to adults being unable to adopt.
I stand corrected. My wording may not have been the best choice but my sentiment is the same. Yes, the two instances may be different but are related at the same time. When children are taken out of abusive situations and there are no blood relatives who can (or be willing to) take the children into their custody the children are placed in foster homes. Yes, some of the foster homes are not the best places (NOTE I said some not all). However, occassionally children are placed in foster care and are left there for extended periods of time. About the time the children get settled into a family environment and the foster parents decide to make it permanent, somehow the birth parents decide to be parents again and thus starts the vicious cycle all over again.
I do realize that not every situation is the same so please understand I am not trying to group every instance into the same category.
I stand corrected. My wording may not have been the best choice but my sentiment is the same. Yes, the two instances may be different but are related at the same time. When children are taken out of abusive situations and there are no blood relatives who can (or be willing to) take the children into their custody the children are placed in foster homes. Yes, some of the foster homes are not the best places (NOTE I said some not all). However, occassionally children are placed in foster care and are left there for extended periods of time. About the time the children get settled into a family environment and the foster parents decide to make it permanent, somehow the birth parents decide to be parents again and thus starts the vicious cycle all over again.
I do realize that not every situation is the same so please understand I am not trying to group every instance into the same category.
I don't think birth parents should have a "right" to the child (once they've 1st proven untrustworthy.) Each situation should be investigated and decided which is best for the child, stay with stable foster parents, or go back to questionable birth parents? (Can you guess my bias?) Also, I think that if a couple attempting to adopt from a pregnant woman, go through the process, pay for the medical, buy supplies ect ect, and the biological mother changes her mind after an extended period of time, that the couple should be able to recoup some of their losses from that woman who backed out on the agreement. Yes, I think she has the right to change her mind, but not at the detriment of the couple. I think this would cut down on fraud and rash decisions to "keep my baby" once its popped out.
Hadn't thought of that aspect but you are probably right. Holding the birth mother financially accountable for her decisons could cut down on scammers who prey on other women's strong desire to become mothers.
I have a kid you can adopt. She's 22 and to big to put back.
Thanks Mercenary, but when I married capn I became an instant mother to a 30yr old and 2 grandkids.
Bring the troops home? Then what? Do you think the extremists and the jihadist will leave us alone? Didn't they start this mess? The truth is we have forced them to fight in their own back yard and to expend their resources.
The US has led the fight and we are stretched thin. Other nations can lead the way in Haiti. We no longer are the worldest wealthiest nation. We are deep in debt and China holds our "markers". The Central America & Carribean nations can lead the rescue of Haiti.
That being said, I urge everyone to donate to NGOs to help Haiti.
Very nice, Monster. I just realized that I have been feeling sad all day and didn't know why. Then I thought about it and remembered I'd started my day by reading a number of horrific reports about Haiti. Such tragedy. I wish I could do more to help, just as I wish I could do more about all the suffering and inequalities of this terrible beautiful world we live in.
You can look into a process called micro-loaning (I think it is called that). It is where you loan out a certain amount of money for a small business in a 3rd world country but you get no interest off it. Look at this website:
http://www.kiva.org/
Bring the troops home? Then what? Do you think the extremists and the jihadist will leave us alone? Didn't they start this mess? The truth is we have forced them to fight in their own back yard and to expend their resources.
It will not solve the problem, but Al Qeada and other terrorists groups have specifically said their jihad against the US is because of American troops and influence in Saudi Arabia and other Islamic countries and our support of Israel. They are reactionary to our foreign policy.
But, there is nothing we can do about the past and need to focus on the present and future. Whatever that means...
Al Qeada and other terrorists groups have specifically said their jihad against the US is because of American troops and influence in Saudi Arabia and other Islamic countries and our support of Israel. They are reactionary to our foreign policy.
Paint me cynical if you like, but I don't believe anything they say. <shrug>
"I read that 3,000 soldiers are arriving, Marines armed as if they were going to war. There is not a shortage of guns there, my God. Doctors, medicine, fuel, field hospitals, that's what the United States should send," "They are occupying Haiti undercover."
"On top of that, you don't see them in the streets. Are they picking up bodies? ... Are they looking for the injured? You don't see them. I haven't seen them. Where are they?"
Chavez said on his weekly television show.
Alain Joyandet, French co-operation minister, told reporters at the airport he had protested to Washington via the US ambassador about the US military’s management of the airport where he said a French medical aid flight had been turned away.
Wow its sooner than I expected, but apparently the US isn't doing enough or doing it right.
As I understand it the French medical jet was diverted until they could make room on the ground. Maybe if less reporters were flying in the military could do the job they were sent to do.
As for the Marines arriving with weapons, well yea, they are Marines, that is what they do. I wouldn't want to be in that country without a weapon at this point and time if I were them.
. . . and if I were a doctor or supply person et all, I'd want their protection too.
...Why weren't we there helping them rebar? Because it is not our fucking job to go do everything for everybody. Why didn't we make sure they had survival supplies? It isn't our fucking job...
But it's no more "our fucking job" to dig them out, feed them, and give them medical care after an earthquake. Yet you say...
I think doing what you can right now to help someone is a good thing...
It would have cost less in lives and money if we had been good neighbors proactively.
As for the Marines arriving with weapons, well yea, they are Marines, that is what they do. I wouldn't want to be in that country without a weapon at this point and time if I were them.
I wouldn't have wanted to be there without a weapon, before the quake.:headshake
It would have cost less in lives and money if we had been good neighbors proactively.
OK, Chavez. :rolleyes: The UN had peace keeping people there, something like 5000 of them. What should we have done, invade the country?
Nobody in their right mind is going to invest in an unstable, lawless, country.
It would have cost less in lives and money if we had been good neighbors proactively.
Wow its sooner than I expected, but apparently the US isn't doing enough or doing it right.
:redcard: :bs:
:bs:
You're right: fewer people dies because we did nothing and their houses collapsed on them. Now give more to charity, Einstein.
... Nobody in their right mind is going to invest in an unstable, lawless, country.
We're investing through charities now, though. Hmmm.
You're right: fewer people dies because we did nothing and their houses collapsed on them. Now give more to charity, Einstein.
We gave them nothing? Are you really sure about that? :eyebrow:
As recently as 2006 we gave them 163 million according to one site and another has it listed as 55 as recently as 2008.
We gave them nothing? Are you really sure about that? :eyebrow:
As recently as 2006 we gave them 163 million according to one site and another has it listed as 55 as recently as 2008.
Nothing in terms of the charity that has been pouring in for the last week.
that wasn'ty your point - You said
It would have cost less in lives and money if we had been good neighbors proactively.
"
we did nothing and their houses collapsed on them. Now give more to charity, Einstein.
The US was proactive. We gave them well over $250,000,000 over the last few years. You are wrong.
It would be wonderful if we could help the entire third world - and I'm sure there are policy changes, etc that we could implement to make the aid we do give more effective. But even the US doesn't have the kind of money to give such substantial amounts of assistance to Rwanda, Ethiopia, Brazil, on and on. Sure, if we had a magic ball we could have put money in Haiti ahead of time, the same as we could have warned people about the tsunami's and sent aid to Indonesia, India, etc, ahead of time. Unfortunately, time travel has yet to be invented (no doubt the pentagon is holding out on us).
that wasn'ty your point - You said
"
The US was proactive. We gave them well over $250,000,000 over the last few years. You are wrong.
OK Classic, you win. We did not give them nothing. I exagerated. We did not help our neighbors so much that their buildings collapsed on them because of all the rebar they couldn't afford.
It would be wonderful if we could help the entire third world - and I'm sure there are policy changes, etc that we could implement to make the aid we do give more effective. But even the US doesn't have the kind of money to give such substantial amounts of assistance to Rwanda, Ethiopia, Brazil, on and on. Sure, if we had a magic ball we could have put money in Haiti ahead of time, the same as we could have warned people about the tsunami's and sent aid to Indonesia, India, etc, ahead of time. Unfortunately, time travel has yet to be invented (no doubt the pentagon is holding out on us).
It's a shame. We're very good at being
reactive, not very good at being
proactive.
what's this 'we' shit, white man?
what's this 'we' shit, white man?
Not you. It's the people who are giving to charities since the earthquake.
beauty is only skin deep
ugly goes to the bone
CAIRO – Rare torrential rains across the Middle East swept away homes, marooned resort towns and killed seven people Monday, including a British tourist, in what officials are calling the worst flooding in at least a decade.
The flooding along Egypt's Red Sea coast, the border with Israel and in the south left six people dead. It also damaged the roads leading to the resorts in the Sinai desert and brought down telephone and power lines.
Dam the US! We should have been sending Egypt more yachts. :cool:
beauty is only skin deep
ugly goes to the bone
Are you insinuating that I'm ugly because I think we should procatively help the downtrodden and needy?
Proactive help is a good thing, Spexx, but I think you've lost sight of the scale. Even if we'd gone so far as to give all of Haiti free rebar for life, then the earthquake would have struck rural Mexico instead. Or Costa Rica, or Puerto Rico, or Cuba, or Guatemala... We help a whole lot of countries a fair amount, but you can never predict who's going to end up needing more help than others.
We can't just give them free rebar... we'd have to take over their government, pass a law that they would have to use it and how, and police the construction sites to assure compliance. Chavez would love it. :rolleyes:
i won't argue politics with a socialist. I think you're ugliness goes to the bone because you behave worse than you look.
i won't argue politics with a socialist. I think you're ugliness goes to the bone because you behave worse than you look.
To which behavior are you referring?
Proactive help is a good thing, Spexx, but I think you've lost sight of the scale. Even if we'd gone so far as to give all of Haiti free rebar for life, then the earthquake would have struck rural Mexico instead. Or Costa Rica, or Puerto Rico, or Cuba, or Guatemala... We help a whole lot of countries a fair amount, but you can never predict who's going to end up needing more help than others.
We can't just give them free rebar... we'd have to take over their government, pass a law that they would have to use it and how, and police the construction sites to assure compliance. Chavez would love it. :rolleyes:
Those are good points. But aren't you tired of going around trying to close the barn door after the horse is gone? It's expensive, and what does it really accomplish, in the long run?
Those are good points. But aren't you tired of going around trying to close the barn door after the horse is gone? It's expensive, and what does it really accomplish, in the long run?
Right. We'll just stop sending aid to Haiti right now since it accomplishes nothing in the long run. :rolleyes:
Those are good points. But aren't you tired of going around trying to close the barn door after the horse is gone? It's expensive, and what does it really accomplish, in the long run?
No, that I do by choice. What I am sick of, is dumping [strike]millions[/strike] Billions of dollars into countries all over the world, with no choice as to who it goes to or what they do with it.
No, that I do by choice. What I am sick of, is dumping [strike]millions[/strike] Billions of dollars into countries all over the world, with no choice as to who it goes to or what they do with it.
But you
don't have a choice where your money goes. You do have the choice of whether to give or not. You may choose The Red Cross, but you don't control who they give it to, or what they do with it. And if you find a charity that you know will give it to, let's say as an example, rebar, why didn't you donate, by choice, to them long enough ago to make a difference during the earthquake. Do you know what I'm getting at? We give now, but it's too late. 100,000 people are dead.
Because I don't know any rebar charities and what the Haitians are going to do with the damn rebar. They could sell it to another island for bananas, for all I know.
I know what the Red Cross is doing with my money, paying McGovern over a million bucks a year.
We give now, but it's too late. 100,000 people are dead.
So you're saying we should cut our losses, and funnel all of the aid currently going to Haiti into rural Mexico instead?
No, that I do by choice. What I am sick of, is dumping [strike]millions[/strike] Billions of dollars into countries all over the world, with no choice as to who it goes to or what they do with it.
We actually "dump" less than one penny out of the federal dollar on foreign aid.** I dont think that is too much.
But I think it is misdirected in the sense that most goes to corrupt governments or governments incapable of maximizing the use of the funds....or through equally inefficent international organizations like the World Bank and IMF.
I would give more of that one penny to NGOs with a proven track record of accomplishment in improving economic or social conditions in developing countries.
** excluding military aid and trade assistance.
OK Classic, you win. We did not give them nothing. I exagerated. We did not help our neighbors so much that their buildings collapsed on them because of all the rebar they couldn't afford.
What???? You really believe this was preventable by the US?
It's a shame. We're very good at being reactive, not very good at being proactive.
lol
Not you. It's the people who are giving to charities since the earthquake.
How bout that Tsunami? Should we have given them a 50' high wall?
We cannot prevent natural disasters - Hell we have cities built below sea level right here in the US, ferchrissakes.
We already do help proactively - to the tune of untold BILLIONS upon BILLIONS. We cannot fix every ill in the world. It is not possible. We do the best we can and when something happens we help our "neighbors" (many of whom HATE US) in their time of need as well. Just paying for everything any other country could ever need isn't a solution. Its idiotic actually.
Yeah, but you'd happily give them my money too.
I would give more of that one penny to NGOs with a proven track record of accomplishment in improving economic or social conditions in developing countries.
Would Haiti make the list? :headshake
Those that didn't get aid would probably turn into havens for burkha wearing terrorists too :p
Would Haiti make the list? :headshake
Of course, Haiti, the poorest country in the western hemisphere would make the list of countries where US aid should be directed...but it is also a very good example of a corrupt or incapable government....so in that sense, that very small piece of that one penny probably accomplished very little.
Of course, ...but it is also a very good example of a corrupt or incapable government....
with a proven track record of accomplishment in improving economic or social conditions
huh?
huh?
Read what I wrote....more of that one penny to
NGOs with a proven track record of accomplishment in improving economic or social conditions in developing countries.
NGOs -Non-governmental organizations.
Well, I guess we do everything right. You guys win. Let's not try to save lives, we'll just continue to throw money at dead people.
C'mon Spexx, you can't be that stupid... it's just not possible. Why didn't we do this, or why didn't we do that, in retrospect, is stupid. We can't do it all.
I was reading about how geologists are using satellites to try and figure what moved and how much, to determine if and when a major aftershock might happen. They said there were no monitoring stations in Haiti, unlike there is most everywhere else, because nobody was willing to work there. It just wasn't safe, even after the UN peacekeepers arrived.
To which behavior are you referring?
why didn't you donate, by choice, to them long enough ago to make a difference during the earthquake. Do you know what I'm getting at? We give now, but it's too late. 100,000 people are dead.
THIS
trying to give bruce a guilt trip for not having helped before there was a need? what the crap?
trying to give bruce a quilt trip for not having helped before there was a need?
How did quilted northern get into this thread? Is WalMart also trying to poison their kids?
THIS
trying to give bruce a guilt trip for not having helped before there was a need? what the crap?
That is ugly to the bone.
Read what I wrote....more of that one penny to NGOs
NGOs -Non-governmental organizations.
I missed it and thats why I asked if Haiti would qualify - you said yes.
Would Haiti make the list?
Of course, Haiti, would make the list
Down boy! We're all good.
The US has sent millions to Hatti at every turn.
He was referring to aid BEFORE a disaster.
Down boy! We're all good.
Sheesh! ;)
He was referring to aid BEFORE a disaster.
In 08, we gave about $260 million in socio-economic aid to Haiti through US AID.
http://www.usaid.gov/locations/latin_america_caribbean/country/haiti/Haiti_Country_Profile.pdf
Given that total US socio-economic foreign aid is about $25 billion (of a $3 trillion federal budget) or less than one penny on the dollar.
That would make US aid to Haiti about one penny of that one penny....to a close and poorest neighbor.
IMO, we can do better as a nation (and not discounting at all the outpouring of generosity of the American people in response to the tragedy), but at the same time, we need to guarantee a better bang for the bucks...and that is where the NGOs come in rather throwing $$$ at the Haitian government.
I saw such disparate #'s as to the amount of aid given - Thanks for hopefully clarifying that.
How much have we given over the past say decade? What did they do with it? (Apparently they did NOT buy rebar)
How many people are in Haiti? Whats the breakdown per capita on that aid?
So rebar would have prevented this? Uh huh.
So rebar would have prevented this? Uh huh.
When a country is fubar to the extent of Haiti, the issue goes way beyond rebar.
Well,
this certainly sucks.
San Diegans wanting to make a difference in Haiti ran into difficulties getting their medical supplies on board an American Airlines flight Monday afternoon but were ultimately successful, but without aid from American Airlines.
Rescue Task Force and Sempra Energy will be sending a team of six volunteers to Haiti to help with the relief efforts. They are sponsoring an ambulance, connecting electricity, and bringing water into the needed areas. The team is also carrying medical supplies as well as a large sum of money to hit the ground and help immediately. The team is scheduled to leave on American Airlines flight from Lindbergh Field at 5:30 p.m.
The San Diego rescue team wanted to bring three additional pieces of luggage. The group’s team leader, Darryl Hall, told SDNN that American representatives informed him the airline would not let them pay for extra luggage and said the only exception would be if they were media and bringing media camera bags (not medical supplies). The American release states that surf boards, golf bags and other sports equipment would be acceptable to check as part of the bag allowance, while incurring extra fees.
Surf boards ok, medical supplies not ok. Maybe they could tell them a stretcher was a canvas surf board.
When a country is fubar to the extent of Haiti, the issue goes way beyond rebar.
Obviously. I strongly disagree with Spexxvet about the proactive versus reactive stance when it comes to foreign aid of third world countries. First of all, realistically, the potential aid of rebar would have done very little to prevent deaths because normal concrete structures, with rebar, are not designed to withstand 7.0 earthquakes. As far as I know that technology does not even exist yet. We have methods to lower the amount of destruction, but not completely eliminate it. So, just looking at rebar, the cost factor would actually be lower with our current policy. If we include other proactive aid, the cost difference would be even larger. That also makes the assumption we only give that amount of aid to Haiti and not other third world countries that have a probability of being hit with natural disasters as well.
When it comes to foreign aid, I mostly agree with Lookout123 and TheMercenary. We have other bigger problems to focus on in my opinion. We are getting further and further in debt, we are in a bad recession, and our infrastructure isn't that great either (at least compared to first world countries). For now, philanthropy will have to do.
As far as I know that technology does not even exist yet.
The Japs do it, very high tech, very expensive.
The Japs do it, very high tech, very expensive.
I also requires a strict effective government and anal retentive honest building inspectors. Haiti is zero from four.
In other news, the real priorities are being taken care of:
Solar-powered Bibles sent to Haiti
As international aid agencies rush food, water and medicine to Haiti's earthquake victims, a United States group is sending Bibles.
But these aren't just any Bibles; they're solar-powered audible Bibles that can broadcast the holy scriptures in Haitian Creole to 300 people at a time.
The Faith Comes By Hearing organisation says its Bible, called the Proclaimer, delivers "digital quality" and is designed for "poor and illiterate people".
It says 600 of the devices are already on their way to Haiti.
The Albuquerque-based organisation says it is responding to the Haitian crisis by "providing faith, hope and love through God's word in audio".
The audio Bible can bring the "hope and comfort that comes from knowing God has not forgotten them through this tragedy," a statement on its website says.
"The Proclaimer is self-powered and can play the Bible in the jungle, desert or ... even on the moon*!"
*... assuming the almighty would work a miracle and allow sound to travel in a vacuum. :p
Really, they need culturally appropriate aid ... chickens, skulls, face paint, black candles ...
I saw such disparate #'s as to the amount of aid given - Thanks for hopefully clarifying that.
How much have we given over the past say decade? What did they do with it? (Apparently they did NOT buy rebar)
How many people are in Haiti? Whats the breakdown per capita on that aid?
Do the research yourself. Get back to us, and make sure you post some nice colorful charts.
Do the research yourself.
I thought we were finished with your stupidity.
I already tried to do it - which is more than you can say. Apparently Redux has some better source.
Just shush and drink your kool-aid while the adults talk.
If Spexx had proactivly given them all glasses, they would have seen this coming.
I already tried to do it
And failed due to your stupidity. Good response, moron.
And failed[SIZE=4][COLOR=Red] do [/COLOR][/SIZE]to your stupidity. Good response, moron.
i loves me some irony.
i loves me some irony.
I gets your head out of your ass, doesn't it?
Spexxie - you stated your incorrect opinion without any supporting facts or figures. Others proved it wrong with supporting evidence because you were too lazy to do it yourself. Now after you've been proven wrong REPEATEDLY, you call me a moron? :eyebrow:
Of course... he's got nothing else.
i loves me some irony.
Not sure what you're getting at. "Due to" is the correct spelling in this context, not "do to".
However, I believe Spexx should have used the phrase "because of" instead.
http://web.ku.edu/~edit/because.htmlSpexxie - you stated your incorrect opinion without any supporting facts or figures. Others proved it wrong with supporting evidence because you were too lazy to do it yourself. Now after you've been proven wrong REPEATEDLY, you call me a moron? :eyebrow:
What was incorrect? I stated that we're giving all this charity to Haiti after the fact, when it would have been better to have contributed before, when it would have helped. Are you saying that this assertion is incorrect? I'm not saying we didn't give them foreign aid, I'm not saying that we should increase foreign aid - I'm saying that it would have been better if we had contributed to charities that help Haiti before the earthquake. Get it?
We give now, but it's too late. 100,000 people are dead.
That is a completely ridiculous notion.
Do y'all ever get tired of your "strength in numbers" assiness? Stand alone for once, I bet you don't have nearly as much to say, nor will you be nearly so puffed up and stupid looking. Yeah, that'll happen...not a spine between ya.
Not sure what you're getting at. "Due to" is the correct spelling in this context, not "do to".
However, I believe Spexx should have used the phrase "because of" instead.
http://web.ku.edu/~edit/because.html
the irony, dar, was his use of the incorrect spelling whilst calling someone else stupid.
What was incorrect? I stated that we're giving all this charity to Haiti after the fact, when it would have been better to have contributed before, when it would have helped.
We did.
Are you saying that this assertion is incorrect? I'm not saying we didn't give them foreign aid, I'm not saying that we should increase foreign aid - I'm saying that it would have been better if we had contributed to charities that help Haiti before the earthquake. Get it?
You implied and argued that we didn't and you were wrong.
Then you called me a moron for proving you wrong.
What was incorrect? I stated that we're giving all this charity to Haiti after the fact, when it would have been better to have contributed before, when it would have helped. Are you saying that this assertion is incorrect? I'm not saying we didn't give them foreign aid, I'm not saying that we should increase foreign aid - I'm saying that it would have been better if we had contributed to charities that help Haiti before the earthquake. Get it?
No amount of aid would have stopped the earthquake, and I doubt like hell they would have changed the way they built their buildings. Even in retrospect, your theory doesn't hold up.:headshake
the irony, dar, was his use of the incorrect spelling whilst calling someone else stupid.
It's damn near rediculous! ;)
Do y'all ever get tired of your "strength in numbers" assiness? Stand alone for once, I bet you don't have nearly as much to say, nor will you be nearly so puffed up and stupid looking. Yeah, that'll happen...not a spine between ya.
I've been alone in my opinions since I started posting here. There are however, many instances where others have jumped on the bandwagon and far more times its been against me rather than in support of my positions.
And failed due to your stupidity. Good response, moron.
i loves me some irony.
Not sure what you're getting at. "Due to" is the correct spelling in this context, not "do to".
However, I believe Spexx should have used the phrase "because of" instead.
http://web.ku.edu/~edit/because.html
Yeah, I don't get it either. :headshake
What are you doing shawnee?
Trying to figure out why "due to" was incorrect. :confused:
Spexx edited his post obviously.
Oh, I see. Just what merc did with rediculous.
But it's just an old mod trick...only with less window of opportunity.
Aww, don't be ashamed and change your posts for misspellings. Only do so if you regret name-calling and want to hide the proof.
I stated that we're giving all this charity to Haiti after the fact, when it would have been better to have contributed before, when it would have helped. Are you saying that this assertion is incorrect?
In order to have a drastic effect on the amount of deaths due to building infrastructure, the amount of money spent would be MUCH MUCH greater. Rebar is expensive and ineffective against 7.0 earthquakes and to make an effective structure against 7.0 earthquakes, the design is much much more expensive. This would also probably prove to be ineffective due to corruption and low code standards. And that is with the assumption that we only helped Haiti and not the numerous other 3rd world countries that have a probably of natural disasters
Even if we had given them tons of aid, I seriously doubt rebar would have been included, just for the reasons you stated.
Spexx is going to hold on to his argument, no matter what we say. His heart is in the right place, he just hasn't thought the issue through. :rtfm:
Spexx edited his post obviously.
Yeah. i don't go in for that quoting and changing what was said business
Probably one of the best things we could do for third world countries is to provide birth control for those women who want it. Under Bush, the US stopped funding many family planning programs because the religous right connected abortion with birth control. But the US has never funded abortions and they are illegal in many third world countries. Ever growing population densities mean the poor get poorer as there is less and less land and food per capita. Obama has begun to change US policies back to providing birth control methods for third world nations. Haiti is mostly Catholic, though, so I don't know if the availability of birth control would have helped them much or not.
What do you think all those
tetanus vaccine campaigns are about?
They would have been the perfect thing for Haiti. Unfortunately, that article is 15 years old and gives no author, so I am rather skeptical.
the irony, dar, was his use of the incorrect spelling whilst calling someone else stupid.
He must have fixed it after your post then, 'cause it was correct when I read it.
Ok. Here's 2 more on the topic.
Placental transfer of tetanus toxoid antibodies in Nigerian mothers.
The geometric mean of the ratio of cord blood to maternal antibody levels for Nigerian pairs was lower than that of the UK pairs (0.776 vs. 1.306), suggesting a flaw in the transplacental transfer of antibodies. Possible mechanisms involved in blocking placental transfer of tetanus toxoid antibodies may be high maternal IgG levels and heavy malarial placental infection. This block of placental transfer of antibodies affects current immunization programs and necessitates further study.
Fertility regulating and immunotherapeutic
vaccines reaching human trials stageOh, I see. Just what merc did with rediculous.
But it's just an old mod trick...only with less window of opportunity.
Aww, don't be ashamed and change your posts for misspellings. Only do so if you regret name-calling and want to hide the proof.
I do it often because I don't see it until after I go back and re-read it or some spelling nazi jumps on it. ;)
Nothing wrong with making a spelling mistake. But if you are calling someone dumb, or pointing out their grammar/spelling mistakes, and you make one in the same post, well then, you deserve to be ridiculed.
Yea, but I didn't do that. That was someone else.
that's one of those internet rules isn't it? something like calling someone stupid increases the chances of your making a grammatical error by double?
Yea, but I didn't do that. That was someone else.
True. It wasn't you.
that's one of those internet rules isn't it? something like calling someone stupid increases the chances of your making a grammatical error by double?
I make tons of grammatical error and spelling errors. Eh, I fix what I can see. I think faster than my fingers.
Ok. Here's 2 more on the topic.
Placental transfer of tetanus toxoid antibodies in Nigerian mothers.
Fertility regulating and immunotherapeutic
vaccines reaching human trials stage
I respect the amount of research you have done on the topic of vaccines, but I don't agree with you. I know we are not going to change one another's minds, so lets agree to disagree.
That said, I would be very much opposed to giving ANY woman birth control without her knowledge. The problem with the US program until recently was that birth control methods were not made available to third world women who
wanted them. Every woman has the right to choose her own reproductive destiny. Over population is the root of many ills in the third world. If we could help developing nations put a curb on this problem, it would be one of the most economical and effective methods of aid that we could provide.
I make tons of grammatical error and spelling errors. Eh, I fix what I can see. I think faster than my fingers.
you don't still think we're talking about you do you?
No. It was just a general comment.
... The problem with the US program until recently was that birth control methods were not made available to third world women who wanted them. Every woman has the right to choose her own reproductive destiny. Over population is the root of many ills in the third world. If we could help developing nations put a curb on this problem, it would be one of the most economical and effective methods of aid that we could provide.
Perhaps it belongs in the "accomplishments of Obama" thread, but I agree that rescinding the
Mexico City Policy, under which NGOs could not receive federal aid funds even if they use their own funds for abortions or even abortion counseling, is a good thing.
I also dont think any amount of foreign aid to Haiti would have minimized the disaster, but IMO, and from a larger perspective, the level of US assisstance to our poorest neighbor has been paltry.
And, for the record, my ballpark estimate of $25 billion in total US economic aid was off a bit...its closer to $29 billion, including $6 billion to Afghanistan and Iraq...and still less than one penny of every tax dollar.
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2010/tables/10s1263.pdf (if anyone cares).
Even in the toughest times at home, we can afford more than one penny on the dollar to help those facing even greater day-to-day adversity, if the funding is channeled in a meaningful manner.
And, I would certainly question some of the recipients identified above...but not Haiti.
Or perhaps I am straying too much from the topic at hand...but I agree that we can agree to disagree. :)
Here's my thoughts. Let's cut foreign aid and use the money to help the people in the US. Let the NGOs and the UN handle Haiti. Concentrate our military on completing our missions in Southwest Asia.
I also dont think any amount of foreign aid to Haiti would have minimized the disaster, but IMO, and from a larger perspective, the level of US assisstance to our poorest neighbor has been paltry.
And, for the record, my ballpark estimate of $25 billion in total US economic aid was off a bit...its closer to $29 billion, including $6 billion to Afghanistan and Iraq...and still less than one penny of every tax dollar.
We have no such responsibility to provide aid. The world is filled with a hundred Haiti's. Such is life.
We have no such responsibility to provide aid. The world is filled with a hundred Haiti's.
So why were you so concerned about someone on the other side of the globe that was a threat to no one. Not a threat to us. Not a threat to any adjacent country. And yet you thought we should Pearl Harbor his nation.
Aid makes friends. Unilaterally attacking someone only because you fear is akin to being friends with the devil. Only the devil would hate aid to the downtrodden while unilaterally attacking others based on mythical fears. Why so much hate?
So why were you so concerned about someone on the other side of the globe that was a threat to no one. Not a threat to us. Not a threat to any adjacent country. And yet you thought we should Pearl Harbor his nation.
Aid makes friends. Unilaterally attacking someone only because you fear is akin to being friends with the devil. Only the devil would hate aid to the downtrodden while unilaterally attacking others based on mythical fears. Why so much hate?
Hate is popular. It's all the rage. It makes one look strong and self-supportive. Yeah, I'm not buying it either.
I have no idea what he posts so thanks for the quote.
Hate?
All the rage?
Strong and self-supportive?
WTF?
Assume much?
No, when one assumes, one makes an ass of you and me. ;)
And it was flawless, that point.
Here's my thoughts. Let's cut foreign aid and use the money to help the people in the US. Let the NGOs and the UN handle Haiti. Concentrate our military on completing our missions in Southwest Asia.
NGOs and the UN rely heavily on governmentl funding.
About 1/4 of the UN/World Health Organization (WHO) funding is from US government contributions.
Doctors Without Borders gets over half of its funding from governments, including, most significantly, from the US treasury.
Hate? ... WTF?
Why do the extremists here routinely turn any discussion nasty? Oh. That is what Limbaugh, Beck, etc do. "We want Obama to fail." And so nasty posting from right wing wackos continue. Another post - this time about Haitians - has been converted into another nasty thread of insults. Limbaugh would be proud. How extremists throughout history have gained power. Even 'liberal' use of profanity is expected.
Since the topic is Haiti's earthquake - a small relevant sidebar:
The epicenter was some 20 miles SW of Port-Au-Prince. One would never know from local posting and graphic reports of urban victims. Little has been reported on where the earthquake was possibly most severe.
Viewing satellite photos, damage appreared to be less west (more outside) the city. After wading through reams of useless 'tear jerk' nonsense, reports say getting west (down the coast) was difficult. On Tuesday, the Marines solved that problem. They landed Marine style. From the NY Times of 19 Jan 2010:
LÉOGÂNE, Haiti — The Marine helicopters began landing just before noon on Tuesday in a cow pasture here in this heavily damaged farming town about nine miles south of Port-au-Prince, kicking up strong winds and drawing crowds of the curious and hopeful.
Is Leogane even worse? Too many reports of dead bodies and frustrated rescuers. Little if any word about damage where the earthquake centered.
Now we return you to more personal attacks justified by an extremist political agenda and the need to have Obama fail. Clearly we have no business helpin Hatians because ...
Global News says Canada is going to concentrate on that area.
The plan emerged Monday when Rivard and Brig.-Gen. Guy Laroche, commander of Canadian Forces in Haiti, spoke to reporters — and later when Gen. Walt Natynczyk, chief of the defence staff, and Defence Minister Peter MacKay made a flying visit to CFB Valcartier to personally thank the 1,000 soldiers heading to Haiti this week.
"We understand about 90 per cent of the destruction was in the town of Leogane, extending to the southern coast to Jacmel," Natynczyk said. "These two towns form the north-south orientation of the area that the UN has asked us to focus on."
[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]
Read it on Global News: Canadian aid to Haiti to focus on reconstruction
[/COLOR][/LEFT]
The epicenter was some 20 miles SW of Port-Au-Prince. One would never know from local posting and graphic reports of urban victims. Little has been reported on where the earthquake was possibly most severe.
I've seen several reports on that area, but there aren't many people there and not much to report. The action is in the capitol, where the people are, so no reason for the reporters to go to the hinterlands, even if they could.
I would guess the majority of those in the hinterlands would have had a better time surviving.
I have read that some Haitian officials simply want to evacuate Port Au Prince and build tent cities on the outskirts.
That might cut down some of the violence.
I've seen several reports on that area, but there aren't many people there and not much to report.
That is not what I had heard. But again, facts (due to so many human interest stories) is so difficult to obtain.
Even the western side of Port-Au-Prince appeared (in satellite photos) to be mostly intact. A highway out of Port-Au-Prince looked intact. But again, I cannot find any confirmation on any of this. Relevant facts do not exist (or are buried by tear-jerk stories).
Apparently the military has successfully solved distribution problems by opening more airstrips (including one only for C-130s) and establishing small food and water distribution points.
Interesting was a video clip from a home overlooking the city during the quake. Each rising cloud was a collapsing building. They were numerous - almost interconnecting.
Best I can tell, the violence was mostly overblown by isolated press reports - similar to New Orleans. We need more anchormen like Jennings who would have quashed so many overblown accusations.
No more aftershocks in Haiti yesterday (19 Jan). Almost none over many days. Then today had two. One was almost a 6.0 shock. As if buildings are not yet unstable. Try probing inside collapsed buildings when ...
But the desperation may be deeper outside the capital, closer to last week's quake epicenter.
Things don't sound so good outside Port Au Prince:
"We're waiting for food, for water, for anything," Emmanuel Doris-Cherie, 32, said in Leogane, 25 miles (40 kilometers) southwest of Port-au-Prince. Homeless in Leogane lived under sheets draped across tree branches, and the damaged hospital "lacks everything," Red Cross surgeon Hassan Nasreddine said.
Hundreds of Canadian soldiers and sailors were deploying to that town and to Jacmel on the south coast to support relief efforts, and the Haitian government sent a plane and an overland team to assess needs in Petit-Goave, a seaside town 10 miles (15 kilometers) farther west from Leogane that was the epicenter of Wednesday's aftershock.
I was finally able to make a Red Cross donation tonight. On Friday I will also be donating $5 to Haiti relief in exchange for being able to wear jeans to work.
By far the oddest donation was through the Facebook game Mafia Wars. Either by buying them or gaining them through achievements, the player collects 'Godfather points', game currency to buy objects. Earlier this week the game offered 'voodoo drums' for sale with proceeds going to Haiti relief. I used all the points I could to buy two.
Now I'm used to click-a-day sites like thehungersite translating clicks into food, pet supplies, etc, but I still found it odd turning game currency into real world relief supplies. I believe the voodoo drums were 25 points each. I wonder what donation amount that converted to?
On a related note, check out
this testimonial from Woot.
My name is Bryan Meyers. I have just been evacuated from the Haiti earthquake. One of the things I had with me when the quake started was my cell phone; stuck to its back was the Lumpod LED flashlight that I had received some time ago in a Woot Bag of Crap. I had to walk through the dark streets of Port-au-Prince six miles to get to a secure place. I walked over rubble, bodies (dead and injured), downed wires, back alleys. The flashlight lit my way very reliably. As I said in my journal, THANK YOU, BAG OF CRAP!
If you’re interested, you can read my journal and view some pictures at www.bmeyers.net/haiti or at haiti.bmeyers.net.
I'm a bit of a flashlight nut. I have more than 1 keychain light and two in my car. It looks like it saved this guy some trouble. Hmmm. Amazon carries them for $1.50
http://www.amazon.com/LumPod-Stick-phone-Flashlight-White/dp/B000T6L1LWWe're starting a permanent relationship with
SOS Children's Villages after Pete looked into it.
I thought some people might like to see this.
Haiti 360
Use your mouse to click and drag around the video to change the view. You can also zoom in and out.
Pause and
explore at any time by pressing the
play/pause button under the video to stop and look around. The video below was shot on Monday, January 18, at 9:52 a.m. EST in Port-au-Prince, Haiti.
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2010/01/world/haiti.360/index.html?hpt=C1Well, if you weren't feeling bad enough about the quake, it's now our doing in some of the world's loopier media circles. :headshake Get out your tinfoil hats.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=116834§ionid=351020104
An unconfirmed report by the Russian Northern Fleets says the Haiti earthquake was caused by a flawed US Navy 'earthquake weapons' test before the weapons could be utilized against Iran.
United States Navy test of one of its 'earthquake weapons' which was to be used against Iran, went 'horribly wrong' and caused the catastrophic quake in the Caribbean, the website of Venezuela's ViVe TV recently reported, citing the Russian report.
After the report was released, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez also made a similar claim, saying that a US drill, carried out in preparation for a deliberate attempt to cause an earthquake in Iran, had led to the deadly incident in Haiti, claiming more than 110,000 lives.
Aw crap, they let the cat outta the bag. :rolleyes:
That is the most outrageous example of fake news I've ever seen.
I didn't know the Russian Northern Fleets was a Fox News affiliate.
They are affiliated with MSNBC - part of the Brzezinski family. :rolleyes:
They are affiliated with MSNBC - part of the Brzezinski family.
Nonsense. This is a conspiracy by the Rothchilds, Rockefellers, and Kennedys to manipulate the world. To keep us all busy fighting each another. Everyone knows war creates profits.
Seems to be working then doesn't it?
Seems to be working then doesn't it?
An indication that they are all too fat and rich? They have been dying.
That is the most outrageous example of fake news I've ever seen.
I didn't know the Russian Northern Fleets was a Fox News affiliate.
Well, Rich, it's not like you're ever going to know the news then, is it? Guess you'll be among the last of the unenlightened, all because you prefer leftist stupidity to conservative wisdom... what a rotten kind of life.
In other fumbling, since when is Russia's
Northern Fleet plural? Somebody hadn't the proper depth of knowledge. Fleets, quotha.
thats a pretty shitty post, if I do say so myself.
I was surprised when I went to my employer's internal website, to donate by payroll deduction.
2004 Indian Ocean tsunami = $1 million, plus 100% matching of all employee donations.
Haiti = $50k, plus no matching.
Noticed tonight, their donation has been upped to a million, they're also matching donations.
Guess they realized how bad it is.
that is interesting bruce, I thought it was pretty clear how bad it was from the onset. Maybe some people noticed it like you did and said something to management.
Noticed tonight, their donation has been upped to a million, they're also matching donations.
Guess they realized how bad that looked.
I'll say.
I think ESPN made the right choice in firing Paul Shirley. ESPN hired him to be a commenter and he made bad/stupid comments. He'll probably get a spotlight on Fox or Rush Limbaugh's talk show, they like this sorta thing.
If You Rebuild It, They Will Come. By Paul Shirley
One line of his that really seems "WTF is wrong with you?!"
Shouldn’t much of the responsibility for the disaster lie with the victims of that disaster?
So....all victims of a disaster are responsible for the disaster? Yep, those rape victims shouldn't have dressed so slutty either!
He's a basketball player, or was. Smart ones are few and far between.
However, it is not outside the realm of imagination to think that the citizens of a country might be able to: A) avoid putting themselves into a situation that might result in such catastrophic loss of life. And B) provide for their own aid, in the event of such a catastrophe.
His assumption would be valid IF we do the same to New Orleans and NYC (disasters due to hurricanes) and to the Memphis area (prone to devastation of equivalent proportions also due to little planning for earthquakes.
In the case of mistakes and warnings as applied to Haiti, I don’t mean to indict those who ignored actual warnings against earthquakes, of which there were many before the recent one.
What warnings? No serious earthquake for 200 years. The only warnings were years previous and too late to do anything. Reality: most warnings were more about an earthquake on the Dominican Republic north shore - not in Haiti.
Meanwhile Haiti was busy still recovering from multiple devastating hurricanes. How were Haitians to be planning for an earthquake that few even suspected?
NYC had an earthquake five on the Richter scale in the 1700s. Is NYC today constructed to withstand a 5+ quake? Since he knows what Haiti should have prepared for, then does he know what NYC should be prepared for?
The problem with his conclusions: facts and assumptions on which it is based are flawed. One is expected to learn facts before throwing stones.
Since New Orleans was built in the wrong location, America should have done nothing to help its citizens? That is his reasoning.
It is the logic - not the morality - of his conclusions that are wrong. They deserve no help because they should have known this was coming? Who knew it? Martians? Certainly not Americans, Europeans, or Haitians.
Well tw, lets take your logic a step further - now that we "know" should we rebuild New Orleans or relocate?
Well, with global warming and rising oceans and more extreme weather to come, I think the entire Gulf Coast should be relocated to Kentucky. :rolleyes:
Well tw, lets take your logic a step further - now that we "know" should we rebuild New Orleans or relocate?
It makes no sense to rebuild a Ninth ward ten feet below sea level. Many parts of New Orleans were dry because not located below sea level.
Clinton solved many problems by addressing the problem rather then playing political games. For example,
Clinton rebuilt cities such as Grafton IL where floods no longer cause damage. Spring 2002 floods no longer caused destructive flooding. FEMA did not build bigger levees. It addressed the problem using product oriented thinking because top management was a good and responsible.
So George Jr goes to Sen Trent Lott's oceanside home (where it once stood) and declares government will rebuild his home in the worst spot possible. Because a rich Senator needs his home rebuilt where it should not be.
Paul Shirley's mistake is to conveniently forget and modify facts to promote his conclusions. At least Memphis knows they have a pending disaster. And have plenty of time to start averting it. According to Paul Shirley's reasoning, when the big one happens, the rest of America should do nothing to save Memphis.
Meanwhile, an intelligent president would not have government rebuild Trent Lott's home. Unlike Haitians, Lott can afford to do it himself. Lott even knew the inevitable was coming. Haitians did not. Therefore Haitians should have no help - according to Paul Shirley. But extremists would rebuild Lott's luxery shore home.
Well, with global warming and rising oceans and more extreme weather to come, I think the entire Gulf Coast should be relocated to Kentucky.
Imagine that daily walk to the beach.
Every city on the west coast of the US is at risk from the San Andreas Fault. Every city on the East coast is a risk from a tsunami from the collapse of a known undersea cliff formation near the Canary Islands. New Orleans is ... well ...
Sorry, guys, but the only safe place is in fact Ohio.
ROAD TRIP!!! Everyone head to Shaw's house immediately!
There is no other safe place and she's probably at work so we could drink her beer and eat her chips before she even knows we are there.
Sorry, guys, but the only safe place is in fact Ohio.
Which is the home of the Davis-Besse nuclear power plant with both a hole in its containment dome AND a known Three Mile Island problem. But it continued operating anyway because mistakes in OH are acceptable.
Or First Energy whose operations were so hazardous as to creat the entire NE blackout from Michigan and Indiana, through Ontario, and all of New York. First Energy happened when bean counters bought Dayton Electric, Todelo Edison, Penn Electric, and soon Allegheny Energy. First Energy also owns Three Mile Island.
Otherwise OH is a safer place.
Texas is pretty safe as long as we're a couple hundred miles inland from the Gulf, right tw? I'm just trying to keep my emergency disaster plan up-to-date.
No place is safe from Mother Nature, you puny humans. Muhahahahahahahaha. :reaper:
ROAD TRIP!!! Everyone head to Shaw's house immediately!
There is no other safe place and she's probably at work so we could drink her beer and eat her chips before she even knows we are there.
I think this is a great idea.
She'll be so overcome with joy she probably won't even notice the potato chip crumbs all over the carpet or mind cellar people fighting over her last beer.
Texas is pretty safe as long as we're a couple hundred miles inland from the Gulf, right tw? I'm just trying to keep my emergency disaster plan up-to-date.
As long as your bus driver does not have burning brakes...
and Saddam does not come back from the grave seeking revenge with his finally located WMDs.
Well, its a big state. And Saddam only had little WMDs. Your probably safe.
That's true, World War III is probably going to be started with Middle Eastern nukes striking New York, Los Angeles, and Crawford. I'm screwed.
I think W sold his place in Crawford (no need to appear to be a common guy any longer), so you're safe. ust as long as the terrorists are up on current events. :)
I think this is a great idea.
She'll be so overcome with joy she probably won't even notice the potato chip crumbs all over the carpet or mind cellar people fighting over her last beer.
First rule: there is always more beer. I'll buy, you fly.
Second rule: any food you find on the floor is all yours. I take no responsibility for any food-borne illness, however.
Third rule: you must shovel snow.
First rule: there is always more beer. I'll buy, you fly.
get a man
I don't fly on orders.
Second rule: any food you find on the floor is all yours. I take no responsibility for any food-borne illness, however.
get a dog. I don't fucking eat shit off the floor even if you think yours is golden
Third rule: you must shovel snow.
get a man.
or someone who is good at shoveling shit.. like ..ah you
Three strikes and I'm out.
Hey beeatch, I was a jokin'
so, um, fuck you.
My house is dirty (my floor is golden? why are you so dumb?) there is snow everywhere, and I was more than happy to drink a beer with you.
Hahahahahahaa...I thought I detected niceness...you're a wily one.
But go ahead, get on the bandwagon. You feel better? Popularity was slipping?
And I have a man, I just don't have to act like a whore to get him to do stuff for me.
And thanks, sky. It's refreshing, how different you are than most people.
get a man
I don't fly on orders.
get a dog. I don't fucking eat shit off the floor even if you think yours is golden
get a man.
or someone who is good at shoveling shit.. like ..ah you
Three strikes and I'm out.
That's a bit harsh.
tsunami warning for Hawaii in wake of Chilean Shaker
Chile earthquake generates cross-Pacific tsunami
February 27, 2010
Tokyo (AP) — People in Hawaii were urgently told to protect lives and property from a tsunami crossing the Pacific as fast as a jetliner after a devastating earthquake in Chile.
Tsunami waves were likely to hit Asian, Australian and New Zealand shores within 24 hours of the earthquake, which struck early Saturday on Chile's coast.
Though notoriously hard to predict, the tsunami was not expected to be as devastating as the waves generated after a magnitude-9.5 earthquake hit Chile in 1960. Most countries, awaiting further data, did not order evacuations Saturday but instead advised people in low-lying areas to watch for further updates.
The Pacific Tsunami Warning Center in Hawaii advised that a tsunami was possible in the northern Pacific, including the U.S. West Coast and Alaska.
"Sea-level readings confirm that a tsunami has been generated which could cause widespread damage," the center said in a bulletin after the magnitude-8.8 quake. "Authorities should take appropriate action to respond to this threat."
The center noted that tsunami wave heights are difficult to predict because they can vary significantly along a coast due to the local topography.
Some Pacific nations in the warning area were heavily damaged by a tsunami last year. On Sept. 29, a tsunami spawned by a magnitude-8.3 earthquake killed 34 people in American Samoa, 183 in Samoa and nine in Tonga. Scientists later said that wave was 46 feet (14 meters) high.
Past South American earthquakes have had deadly effects across the Pacific.
A tsunami after the magnitude-9.5 quake that struck Chile in 1960, the largest earthquake ever recorded, killed about 140 people in Japan, 61 in Hawaii and 32 in the Philippines. That tsunami was about 3.3 to 13 feet (one to four meters) in height, Japan's Meteorological Agency said.
The tsunami from Saturday's quake was likely to be much smaller because the quake itself was not as strong.
I was just reading up on Tsunami.
To be out of the danger zone it's 2 miles in or 100 feet above sea level.
Depends on topography. The '64 Alaska quake produced waves that were generally less than 70 feet, but over 100 ft in Cook Inlet, and further down the coast, a dead end bay was stripped of all the soil and vegetation, for several hundred feet elevation up the sides of the hills. Kansas in safer.;)
geez
So the bays and inlets suck all the water inland?
As far as Hawaii goes I found it odd that the alarm sirens will ring at the 3 hour mark. I think I'd want a faster head start. A mass exodus out of the danger zone makes 3 hours pretty tight.
They usually narrow down and get shallow quickly, that increases the impact at the end like it was coming through a funnel.
We had one tsunami warning when we lived in Hawaii. It was pretty wild. The highest points in our area of the island were where all the cemetarys were located. So hords of people showed up and just camped for a few hours, had picnics, and drank. It was interesting.
The highest points in our area of the island were where all the cemetarys were located. So hords of people showed up and just camped for a few hours, had picnics, and drank. It was interesting.
It must have scared the shit out of the ghosts.
We were on alert for a tsunami, but in the end the waves that got here were pretty tiny. Dazza is in New Caledonia on business at the moment, so I was a bit concerned for him, but there wasn't too much to report there either.
We were on alert for a tsunami, but in the end the waves that got here were pretty tiny.
Apparently the waves went the other direction - into Chile.
Isn't that where they started from? Due to the earthquake...
Isn't that where they started from? Due to the earthquake...
The earthquake was in the ocean offshore of Maule, Chile. It was an 8.8 followed 30 minutes later by a 6.2. A tsunami would be caused by land movement beneath the ocean and just off the coast.
Apparently Chile was struck by a 10 meter wave.
FOX News seems to think the tsunami knocked Sydney clear across the continent.:rolleyes:
haha...that's just so ironic (if you're not a huge fan of fox news).
That's not even where Darwin is, or any other major city. There are only a few small ports there to support the fishing industry in the gulf, and there are a few mining communities and some aboriginal tribal lands. No huge thriving metropolis. lol
Oh and tw, I'd be interested to know where you got your info from about the 10m waves in Chile. So far, the best I could find were 3.5m waves in the Robinson Crusoe islands.
Hi Ali! [COLOR="White"]<don't hold your breath>[/COLOR]
It's also emerged that the tsunami generated by the earthquake was more severe than earlier assessments and the coastal towns badly affected.
The scenes from small towns near the ocean in Concepcion state show utter devastation.
Boats and cars have been turned over by the tsunami and the earthquake has also caused many buildings to collapse.
http://www.radioaustralianews.net.au/stories/201003/2833749.htm?desktop
It sounds to me that the tsunami in Chile could easily have been 10 feet or more. :eyebrow:
Well 10 feet is a lot different to 10 metres. It's less than a third the size. 10 feet is about the maximum wave size I've been able to find.
Hey Classic. :)
Well 10 feet is a lot different to 10 metres. It's less than a third the size. 10 feet is about the maximum wave size I've been able to find.
With the report were pictures of 50 foot fishing vessels deposited well inland. More than what a 10 foot wave might have done. Reports put the wave penetrating as much as one half or a full kilometer inland. Also noted was one building in which 350 people died or are missing.
Due to the underwater location of that quake, a tsunami on Chile's coast would be limited to a in a narrow region north of Conception.
The effects were felt - however mild - all over the pacific, including in Australia. I wouldn't call that a narrow region.
A normal wave that is ten feet high is maybe 20 feet thick. A tsunami with a ten foot front may be several hundred feet thick. I will be moving faster and so has the momentum to "run-on" inland and up hills. Height aint everything.
That makes much more sense - thanks Zen.
PELLUHUE, Chile – The 40 retirees enjoying summer vacation at a seaside campground nestled under pine trees knew they had to move fast after Chile's powerful earthquake struck.
They didn't make it. The tsunami came in three waves, surging 200 meters (yards) into this Pacific Ocean resort town and dragging away the bus they'd piled into, hoping to get to high ground. Most of those inside were the retired Chileans, and only five of their bodies had been found by Monday, firefighters and witnesses said...
"We ran through the highest part of town, yelling, 'Get out of your homes!'" said Claudio Escalona, 43, who fled his home near the campground with his wife and daughters, ages 4 and 6. "About 20 minutes later came three waves, two of them huge, about 6 meters (18 feet) each, and a third even bigger. That one went into everything."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100302/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_chile_earthquake;_ylt=AoBnOrAtznMl.aDc4oheAwcuQE4F;_ylu=X3oDMTM4c3Nib2hiBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwMzAyL2x0X2NoaWxlX2VhcnRocXVha2UEY2NvZGUDbW9zdHBvcHVsYXIEY3BvcwMxBHBvcwMxBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDdHN1bmFtaXN3ZXB0
So Chile, at least, was seriously impacted by tsunami's. How awful for the poor people on that bus. :(
A 10 foot was is just over 3 meters high.
i think 10 foot was's are scary as shit.
footfootfootfootfootfootfootfootfootfoot?
Oh and tw, I'd be interested to know where you got your info from about the 10m waves in Chile.
ABC News is now reporting one wave was 15 meters. And again, the tsunami (the only part that is significant) would be limited only to a narrow part of the Chilean coast apparently because the quake was in the ocean and directed at the coast - not out to sea. Quake was maybe 100 to 250 kilometers offshore.
The pictures at Boston dot com make it appear as the tsunami did as much damage as the quake, but that may be because it makes better pictures.
But the quake did make our days shorter by
1.26 microseconds.
This picture from Boston.com really intrigued me. I wonder if the rescuers mistook the dog's whining for a human being. Its a sweet picture but shouldn't they have been digging up man, not man's best friend? :eyebrow:
They are searching house by house, and bringing out everything alive, even people.
Here's an interesting tidbit: NASA scientists claim that the massive earthquake that shook Chile on Saturday may have shifted Earth's axis by about 3 inches (8 centimeters) and shortened its days by about one-millionth of a second.
Damn just when I thought Spring was comimg. :headshake
That has to be a good thing.
Here's an interesting tidbit: NASA scientists claim that the massive earthquake that shook Chile on Saturday may have shifted Earth's axis by about 3 inches (8 centimeters) and shortened its days by about one-millionth of a second.
But the quake did make our days shorter by 1.26 microseconds.
:haha:
I'm fairly upset about it. I was having trouble getting all my shit done before. This is just going to make it harder. :rolleyes:
I'm fairly upset about it. I was having trouble getting all my shit done before. This is just going to make it harder.
And then Congress created daylight savings time. Lose even more time.
Is that another hidden tax?
I was just reading up on Tsunami.
To be out of the danger zone it's 2 miles in or 100 feet above sea level.
Sidhe,
this is the biggie.
Re Bruce's link :
1. :eek:
2. there is probably a slight inaccuracy in the way it is written. The headline refers to a wave 1,720 feet tall. The graphs indicate that vegetation was stripped up to this altitude, which still rates as OMG, but does not mean the wave was 1,720 feet tall. That is the "run-on height", the distance the wave climbs up the land before losing energy.
There was a giant asteroid movie about ten years ago - Armageddon? - in which a chunk of the asteroid hit the Atlantic ocean and sent a tsunami onto North America. They got the physics of the wave pretty much right. A 200 foot wave could run a thousand feet up a hill with the right conditions.
Think for a moment about the landslide that started the Alaskan wave. Here are my back-of-envelope numbers, I think I calculated the acceleration correctly but my fellow nerds are invited to check: 30 million cubic metres, at average crustal density of 5 tons per cubic metre, yields about 150 million tons of rock. Falling from 900 metres (assuming no friction) would take about 13 seconds and deliver a final velocity around 130 m/s, or 488km/h - a little under 300 mph.
This picture from Boston.com really intrigued me. I wonder if the rescuers mistook the dog's whining for a human being. Its a sweet picture but shouldn't they have been digging up man, not man's best friend? :eyebrow:
I'd like to think, that if my village was levelled by an earthquake or other natural disaster, the rescue services would pull Pilau from the wreckage if they heard him whining.
Y'just pull out whatever is alive and rescuable.
Of course I would want my kittens rescued. I luv them. But I would feel terrible if they were rescued at the expense of a human life. That was my only concern. :(
I really doubt that if the rescuers heard an animal in one place and a person in another that they would concentrate their efforts on the animal.:eyebrow:
Then again, there are a few animals I'd rather . . . nevermind.
Of course I would want my kittens rescued. I luv them. But I would feel terrible if they were rescued at the expense of a human life. That was my only concern.
Not me. My cats are worth about 20 humans, depending on the humans. No ulterior motives, ya know? They're very clear about what they want, and what they'll do for it. In exchange for food and warmth and lovin's, they return poo and barf and lovin's :)
No, I know what you mean but I doubt it was at the expense of humans. They heard a poor puppy whining and of course got him out.
Sidhe, this is the biggie.
That's pretty freaking impressive.
Sidhe, this is the biggie.
That's really cool, Bruce. Like dropping a bag of sand into one end of a full bathtub and seeing the waves slosh over everything.
Check out this 3 minute, life goes on in Haiti, video.
It's beautiful and not a downer, honest.
Would I lie to you*... my oldest and dearest friends?
*[SIZE="1"]If it didn't involve money or sex.[/SIZE]
Nice clip, Bruce. It all looks so primative, doesn't it?
Haiti peaked in 1802. Been in a decline ever since, since apparently their talented people aren't ethical, and their ethical people aren't talented.
What to do? I don't know -- ask Bill Gates to buy that half of the island as a fixer-upper?
Remember Haiti? Me neither.
Amazing how our attention moves along, isn't it? It was only 5 months ago.
Actually, yes. Just last night I was forced to listen to a schoolkid remake of the Haiti remake of "We are the world". I found myself wondering if it would cause another earthquake. And then I hoped not, because that was not a fun thing.
And then I wondered how the clean-up was going and whether there were disease epidemics and I googled and I found this:
http://newsone.com/world/newsonestaff2/haiti-struggles-as-earthquake-debris-clean-up-continues/ and I sighed because they are dumping the rubble in the rivers and creating more environmental problems down the line... but this was the only recent thing that came up, and nothing about disease and I figured life goes on.
thanks for asking
Actually, yes. Just last night I was forced to listen to a schoolkid remake of the Haiti remake of "We are the world". I found myself wondering if it would cause another earthquake.
Apparently,
it did.;)
that was an hour later -I suspect that may have been me yelling at the kids to put their bloody* laundry away.
*Anglicized for your work viewing convenience
