What does being a man mean to you?
How would you describe the best virtues of modern manhood? What would you try to teach your son about being a man? Has your viewpoint changed over the years?
I ask because I have no clue (not being a man nor having a son). I'm serious, and curious as to what you think.
Being a man means never having to say you're sorry.
Wait, no, that's love.
Umm being a man means never having to admit you are wrong. If you are single.
It means nothing to me (Vienna).
Umm being a man means never having to admit you are wrong. If you are single.
End of thread, really.
Honestly, we usually play the "in this family we do X" card rather than "a real man does X," because we have yet to come across a quality that we didn't want to have apply to the girls as well. It's ultimately a pride thing--teaching them to take pride in doing the right thing, whatever that may be at the time.
Hector's the one on the right....
It applies to both, but I tried to teach my sons to do the right thing even if no one else was around.
Not having to sit down to take a leak.
Seriously, though, you ask a good question and I am slowly brewing up a proper answer. Gimme a few hours.
Killing the spiders.
Or, preferably, catching them and taking them outside.
Umm being a man means never having to admit you are wrong. If you are single.
And always being wrong if you are married.
Real men don't have to define themselves for anyone ...
... and they don't eat quiche!
Wow this is a loaded question! There is probably no completely right or completely wrong answer due to every person's needs and desires are different which leads women to seek men with different traits. While some women seek the 'bad boys' others seek the men with a softer approach to life. I'm very fortunate to have finally found a man whose core is made of both traits. He is both the 'bad boy' and the 'gentle giant'.
Heavy thread Cloud. Filled with many possibilities. I will have to think on this to give you a proper answer.
Seriously, though, you ask a good question and I am slowly brewing up a proper answer. Gimme a few hours.
Heavy thread Cloud. Filled with many possibilities. I will have to think on this to give you a proper answer.
I'm with these guys. My angle is identifying what qualities should my daughters look for.
I'm with these guys. My angle is identifying what qualities should my daughters look for.
Surely, what qualities/traits they would look for that they wouldn't expect to find in both men and women...
well, I'm getting a lot responses commenting what women look for in a man or relating the question to man/woman relationships; but that's not really what I'm looking for. And I agree, there should be parity of desirable traits for people of both genders. But that's not really what I'm hoping to hear.
You can't tell me that men don't think about "manly" stuff, regardless of whether it's pc to say males and females should have the same virtues. (And by stuff, I do not mean pron!) Expected male behavior has changed so much in the last 50 years, thanks in part to a great deal of hard work by women, that I'm thinking it must be a very hard idea to pin down.
What do modern men think is proper male behavior? Do you still believe it's important to support the family and protect the women and children? To be aggressive and stick up for your friends on the playground? To be a champion burper? What?
Well, I know you're fed up from hearing from me, but it strikes me that it's not an uncommon belief that public introspection is not a manly trait, so you maybe be starting on an uneven keel here.....
an even keel . . . that's a boat thing, so that's manly!
I'm the champion belcher in our house (and I'm a gurl).
What do modern men think is proper male behavior? Do you still believe it's important to support the family and protect the women and children? To be aggressive and stick up for your friends on the playground? To be a champion burper? What?
1. I don't think there is such a thing as proper male behavior. It's defined by every man himself.
2. Everyone has to contribute to a family. Everyone contributes what they can. There are no gender boundaries on contributions. In my relationship I make more money, prepare more meals, fix things around the apartment and do a good share of the cleaning. My girlfriend does more cleaning, takes care of the cat, and washes more dishes.
A man protects anyone he can if necessary and possible. Especially if they are less able to protect themselves.
3. Physical aggression is almost always inappropriate, except in sports. Intellectual and professional aggression is necessary, especially when it is paired with teamwork and cooperation. It's a balance.
4. I think I hit on it in 3. Balance. A modern man is more a balance of traditional, stereotypical and psychological gender traits. This has long been the case in the upperclasses. Now all but the lowliest motherfuckers are a blend of masculine and feminine.
I am sensitive, gentle and share my feelings. I am also aggressive in competition, and can push further and faster when caught up in testosterone-fueled brotherhood. I love babies and puppies. I sometimes break things by misjudging my strength.
Cloud, you said you were serious and I've been mulling on this for a little bit now, I have some more mulling to do.
Initially I'd like to say that I don't like the push to be equal in all things male and female. I think that is just, well, not what I like. Sure men and women should have the same character traits of honesty and fair play. Men and Women are different in many ways and I think the modern man in many ways is allowing himself to be bowled over by the PC horse hockey machine, which in my opinion would make our society a genderless homogenous, we are all the same blah blah blah.
Well, I know you're fed up from hearing from me, but it strikes me that it's not an uncommon belief that public introspection is not a manly trait,
Truth #1
only by a man posting truth #2 can we lay this belief down.
( mostly I thought it was just very funny )
I call bs on that. Can you name a female philosopher? I'm sure there are some (thinks).
There are no right or wrong answers, I don't think; and I'm not trying to make men justify their relationships or their sensitivity. I don't care if you wash the dishes or if your wife changes the oil in your car. I'm just looking for some simple wisdom about what you think it means to be a man, a father, a brother . . .
take your time, gents.
I call bs on that. Can you name a female philosopher? I'm sure there are some (thinks).
Simone de Beauvoir and Ayn Rand to name two. Wikepedia has a big old long list of them.
My actions are going to be viewed as good and normal by my daughters, setting the bar for their relationships. That means I have a say in the world my Grandchildren will inhabit. I cannot then engage in activities that are corrosive to the family or not be present for my kids. This also has the positive effect of being good for me. Right actions would include treating my love well and exclude being a typical Irish drunk.
I still need to engage my primitive side if I'm going to feel whole, that means building stuff, having guy/nature time, and engaging in something competitive. There is a fuzzy line between being too engaged in self stuff and not doing enough. It takes some reflection and will always be imperfectly executed.
A real man would treat his woman good even if she doesn't deserve it sometimes. We have issues that men don't understand... issues that give us immunity from the things that we might say or do. Men need to understand that they have it easier in life and woman have the right to bitch about it from time to time.
Cloud, have you seen the poem by Rudyard Kipling about being a man? Someone posted it here awhile back. It's got some nice pithy bits.
I'm guessing this is something for your impending grandsons?
yes, it got me thinking. At least one grandson--and the possibility of one more. I'll look for the poem.
@ Griff.great response.
Thanks!
Well, I know you're fed up from hearing from me, but it strikes me that it's not an uncommon belief that public introspection is not a manly trait, so you maybe be starting on an uneven keel here.....
I call bs on that. Can you name a female philosopher? I'm sure there are some (thinks).
Well, that is because women at the time were not permitted to 'think' and so .....we still attempt to overcome the squashing down of of any independent thought. sometimes
Haven't you noticed that the perceived smart females of the day can spit cuss and talk like a man ?
Now you have me thinking cloud. Were there any female philosophers before the 1900's?
yes, I know there are female philosophers, really. There were a few, particularly religious women. There was one in the middle ages . . . Isabel? Santa Teresa? Nevermind! Irrelevant! the point is that there are a lot more male philosophers, so men can be introspective.
What does it mean to be a man?
That I have a penis, and women do not.
Beyond that, there is no answer to this question.
Physically, genetically, biologically, we are different from women.
Beyond that, nothing else matters, because we are all completely different, with different thoughts, different abilities, different desires, etc... not one of these, however, defining us as "men," or being "what makes a man, to us."
The only thing that makes us men, that defines us as men, would be the physical differences inherent in all males.
I call bs on that. Can you name a female philosopher? I'm sure there are some (thinks).
Since when was philosophy purely introspection?
This will probably change as I get older but my generalizing separation is a man will respond to situations logically and not emotionally.
I meant that as man versus boy BTW. It also applies to woman versus girl.
I think your Man Vs Boy rather than Man Vs Woman point is an excellent one, and really helps.
If your point about responding rationally rather than emotionally is correct, then I know lots of very big boys and girls.
On philosophy - female philosophers have been very rare until recently and are still only a small minority - probably less than 25% of tenured academics, at a guess based on personal experience.
Perhaps the earlist female philosopher (in the modern sense) was Harriet Taylor, colleage and later wife of John Stuart Mill. In the 20th century, De Beauvoir and Hillary Putnam were among the earliest to be significant, and even now it is hard to think of "prominent" female philosophers. I can name several who are a little better-known than average - Cynthia Macdonald and Rae Langton - but even for this I am straining.
My observations of this topic are both for professional and personal :doit: reasons. And no, there isn't much :doit: going on in philosophy departments.
Oh and while some philosophy is introspective - Hume, Kant, much modern European philosophy - quite a lot is dialectical - sit around a table and argue. Perhaps a kind of collective introspection. Facts and empirical research do occasionally make an appearance, but are not always required.
A real man would treat his woman good even if she doesn't deserve it sometimes. We have issues that men don't understand... issues that give us immunity from the things that we might say or do. Men need to understand that they have it easier in life and woman have the right to bitch about it from time to time.
Welcome to the Cellar, Emma. :D We love comedians.
I can name several who are a little better-known than average - Cynthia Macdonald and Rae Langton - but even for this I am straining.
A*n R*nd
Hey just because you don't believe doesn't mean she wasn't prominent
If your point about responding rationally rather than emotionally is correct, then I know lots of very big boys and girls.
I, along with probably everyone else here, does as well. Personally, I felt that one of the biggest change for me in the past few years is that I am starting to act in a more rational "what is the best response to this situation" from my previously impulsive reaction. I fully admit I still act emotionally and I'm sure everyone will to a point but this is more of a generalization then a clear cut rule.
So I wrote a list of required best friend virtues and required man virtues and this was the only one that wasn't on both:
Must have a willy.
"Required" by you? What the hell does what you require, have to do with what we require, how we define, ourselves?
Women will never be equal to men..
until they can walk down the street with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are sexy.
A*n R*nd
Hey just because you don't believe doesn't mean she wasn't prominent
Good point, I wasn't thinking of her as a philosopher though. In a broad reading of the term I guess she has to count. [/begrudgingly].
Psst.... hush now, don't highlight my stupidity.
Welcome to the Cellar, Emma. :D We love comedians.
Well, I'll see if I can find some to join the forum then. :right:
Welcome to the Cellar, Emma. :D We love comedians.
roses are red, violets are blue, girls pee sitting down and so do you.
So I see a Newb has decided to :stickpoke Bruce.
:corn:
High school attention whore with a penny on her hip.:rolleyes:
Penny on her hip?
Is that like a chip on her shoulder? No seriously, I've never heard that expression before.
Well there was Christine de Pizan for a kick off, in the middle ages :P Not to mention the later Mary Wollstonecraft. Worth recalling though, that when Wollstonecraft was writing in the 18th century, she was referred to by some as 'a female politician', an 'Amazonian' and 'an Unsex'd Female'.
Somehow men managed to carve themselves the twin roles of introspection and silence, philospher and plain minded speaker, sensitive romantic and unfrilled defender.
Men can be introspective and still retain a sense of manliness which relies on a lack of the same. There is little about our sense of gender that is not problematic in some way.
So I see a Newb has decided to :stickpoke Bruce.
:corn:
He's not a mod or an admin is he? :confused:
High school attention whore with a penny on her hip.:rolleyes:
Somebody knows who I am... :eek:
Not a real big surprise because at least one member here is also a member on another forum that I post on... that's how I found
The Cellar and I'm very happy to be here.
[SIZE="4"][COLOR="Red"]I'm not an attention whore & I don't go to public high school.[/COLOR][/SIZE]
The mods and the admins here pretty much want to be treated like everyone else, so they don't advertise the fact that they are mods. If you are worried about it, you should assume that everyone is a mod or that nobody is.
The mods and the admins here pretty much want to be treated like everyone else, so they don't advertise the fact that they are mods. If you are worried about it, you should assume that everyone is a mod or that nobody is.
That sounds like something a mod or admin would say... :eyebrow:
To answer your question more directly, it means embracing his differences, emphasizing chivalry, courage, honor and trustworthiness.
There are few if any role models left these days and it is up to fathers to teach and inculcate these values in America's youth. The Boy Scouts try, but fail.
On the other hand, you asked what manhood means to ME.
To ME, it means a lifetime of enslavement, repression, misery, loneliness, sadness and tears. A prison from which I will in all likelihood never escape.
Manhood is as much a societal construct as it is a state of being.
Defining manhood is a difficult thing, any more than defining womanhood is. Manhood means more than the mere possession of a penis and testicles. It is a state of mind as well as being.
Ask any veteran who has lost his to a land mine if HE'S still a man or not. Cancer causes many men every year to lose their testicles. Are they any less a man than an intact one is? What about accident victims? Burn victims?
For that matter, is a woman any less a woman for undergoing a hysterectomy? Or Bilateral masectomy?
Is it the package, which can be altered? Or the state of mind, the personal identity that defines one's gender?
That sounds like something a mod or admin would say... :eyebrow:
No. I'm not a moderator.
Welcome to the Cellar, by the way.
A man's true greatness lies in the consciousness of an honest purpose in life, founded on a just estimate of himself and everything else, on frequent self-examination, and a steady obedience to the rule which he knows to be right, without troubling himself, as the emperor says he should not, about what others may think or say, or whether they do or do not do that which he thinks and says and does.
-Marcus Aurelius Antoninus.
Ole Marcus said it much better then I, and he said it first.
No. I'm not a moderator.
Welcome to the Cellar, by the way.
Oh, thank you very much! I like this place already... I'm hoping everyone with like me too.
[SIZE="4"][COLOR="Red"]But that doesn't always happen...[/COLOR][/SIZE] :rolleyes:
What should being a man mean to you (one woman's perspective):
Being honest, being gentle but not a pushover, being strong but not a bully, being caring but not a pansy-ass. Oh, and honest. And, honest.
(Did I mention honesty? You know, it's hardly ever heard.) ;)
Manhood is as much a societal construct as it is a state of being.
Because that construct is a moving target, that's the rub... balancing what's currently expected, what's politically correct, with what I feel is right.
Is it the package, which can be altered? Or the state of mind, the personal identity that defines one's gender?
State of mind defines me, gender is only one of the things affecting that state of mind.
The package can definitely be altered, from the external events you described, to simply aging, and the contents also changes. ;)
While my perception of right and wrong, my "core values", probably remain pretty much steady, my behavior will change. Behavior in relation to society, is more reaction, than action.
Being true to One's self whether male or female is the ultimate beginning of shaping a person into who they are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
anonymous 
Manhood is as much a societal construct as it is a state of being.
Bruce:
Because that construct is a moving target, that's the rub... balancing what's currently expected, what's politically correct, with what I feel is right.
Quote: anonymous
Is it the package, which can be altered? Or the state of mind, the personal identity that defines one's gender?
Bruce:
State of mind defines me, gender is only one of the things affecting that state of mind.
Truth!I would like a description of the roles (as a man) you adopt after many things have changed through the generations.
What role do you imagine you must fill to be a man? So many things have changed since my parents generation that I am pretty confused as to what is expected as a "norm". Or have things changed so dramatically? Are they (the roles) quite the same for you as your parents? After all of my experiences I am willing to except the answer-there is no norm...but is there for you? I am not talking about the equipment, I am talking about anyone who identifies their self as a man and what role they imagine they fill based on their self-identification. Hopefully this comes close to the original question. I'm curious too...:)
I can only speak for myself, Cic, but as far as what society expects of me, the role "they" expect me to fill as a man, I don't give a rat's ass.
I am what I am, with no apology. I live as I wish, I do what I want, and try not to hurt anybody. But I also don't take any shit, which is probably the main reason I'm not married anymore.:D
Let me first speak to the nature of the debate of manhood and masculinity in the greater American culture.
This is a discussion that I have been intestinal involved in for the last 10 years. In general most of these discussions it are women talking about men with the occasional input from a man. Which is wrong, for you have one group talking about another group. It is as if you had white talking about what it means to be black or men talking about what it means to be a woman.
We need a closed debate and stand as men to define ourselves and what it that means in society.
In American society I have seen lack of value of masculine values, a lack of value of what men do, specifically fatherhood.
More on the question latter.
Running 12 miles through 4+ inches of snow in sub-zero wind chills, while the wind blows stinging snow in your face, and loving every minute of it.
WTF? Are you saying a woman can't do that. :mg:
Say it ain't so, Perry, say it ain't so.
WTF? Are you saying a woman can't do that. :mg:
Say it ain't so, Perry, say it ain't so.
Naw, that's not what I'm saying at all. Two women were right there with the rest of the guys.
Just because it's part of what being a man means to me doesn't mean it can't be part of what being a woman means to me. If you back up a step I believe such activities are part of what being a human means to me.
I don't know if that makes sense, I'm pretty sleep deprived.
Some of the best runners I know are women. In fact, the best woman runner I know beat the best male runner I know in a 50 mile race a few months ago.
Yeah, OK, you're off the hook. :haha:
Pretty primal stuff PW. Way to "man up." [COLOR="Yellow"]The preceding was written by the father of two female athletes and in no way disparages girl power.[/COLOR]
Let me first speak to the nature of the debate of manhood and masculinity in the greater American culture.
This is a discussion that I have been intestinal involved in for the last 10 years. In general most of these discussions it are women talking about men with the occasional input from a man. Which is wrong, for you have one group talking about another group. It is as if you had white talking about what it means to be black or men talking about what it means to be a woman.
We need a closed debate and stand as men to define ourselves and what it that means in society.
In American society I have seen lack of value of masculine values, a lack of value of what men do, specifically fatherhood.
More on the question latter.
For most of western history it has been men defining both genders, both at an intellectual level and in terms of assigning value. The lack of value attached to 'fatherhood' is not a lack of value assigned to masculinity it's a lack of value assigned to parenting. Western culture has historically had a slightly schizophrenic approach to the concept of parenting/nurture, at least since the early modern period. It is venerated and yet removed from standard value systems: economically, parenting and nurture is least valued of all available skills in the modern world. Womanhood is most strongly connected in our minds with that skill. Indeed, it loses the name of skill when it is employed by a woman and becomes an expression of nature, a continuation of childbirth. Female nurturing is valued highly in the common imaginary, but it is without economic value. Male participation in that nurturing is not valued as highly, because men are expected to express their value in an economic setting.
Women discussing what it is to be male, indeed, defining that identity culturally, can be seen in two ways. Either it is a colonisation of an area they'd previously been excluded from, partly as an extension of the specialised 'women's studies' into a wider understanding of 'gender' in which the next generation of social academics reacted to the female-centric nature of our understanding of gender and focused instead on masculinity. This then fed into wider popular discussions and cultural preoccupations. Or, it is an extension of the female caring/nurture role extended out into a wider setting.
Worth noting, though, that the preoccupation with what it means to be a man and the sense of a loss of some masculine idyll is not a new phenomenon. Every so often that idea has surfaced, usually along with a cultural accusation of women and their feminising influence on men, or their unwillingness to maintain their own femininity, choosing instead to try and be pseudo-men.
The problem is that on the whole we rarely define gender in terms of what a man is, or a what a woman is, but rather what they are not. We form our ideas of gender in terms of oppositional poles.
Indeed, it loses the name of skill when it is employed by a woman and becomes an expression of nature, a continuation of childbirth.
I think this skill/ability is something that women have actively promoted, probably to compensate for the rarity of opportunities to succeed in the business world. With that world changing, it now continues by tradition, and at least has the divorce courts convinced it's true.
...or their unwillingness to maintain their own femininity, choosing instead to try and be pseudo-men.
As a result of trying to gain traction, and respect, in the business world?
So far "being a man" means EVERYBODY I know asks me the questions. When I have a question, nobody knows nothing.
...as far as what society expects of me, the role "they" expect me to fill as a man, I don't give a rat's ass.
I am what I am, with no apology. I live as I wish, I do what I want, and try not to hurt anybody. But I also don't take any shit...
Fuckin' A.:devil:
So far "being a man" means EVERYBODY I know asks me the questions. When I have a question, nobody knows nothing.
I will agree with that
I think this skill/ability is something that women have actively promoted, probably to compensate for the rarity of opportunities to succeed in the business world. With that world changing, it now continues by tradition, and at least has the divorce courts convinced it's true.
I'd agree with that to an extent. The value of nurture has changed in recent history. What's intriguing, however, is that when nurture was seen as an exclusively female occupation divorce courts leaned heavily towards giving custody to the father. It is only in the last 30-40 years that women have been preferred in custody questions.
As a result of trying to gain traction, and respect, in the business world?
Partly that yes. But also partly women's participation in public discourse. Often you find that questions of gender become very prominent during times of economic upheaval, or at the advent of major technological change. As work and workplaces change, there is a new struggle to define them in gendered terms. It's fairly understandable that this would happen. Right or wrong, we tend to conceive of gender in hierarchical terms and work in gendered terms, and we assign a greater economic value to masculine skill. When the economic landscape shifts, for example with the introduction of new technology, that throws into question, potentially, the gender of the work. This is particularly acute when a technological shift has changed a job from heavy phyiscal labour, to lighter machine operation; or when a job which is primarily auxillary in nature starts to take on more dominant roles: the role of the nurse in western medicine has expanded from comfort-giving and bandaging, to minor diagnostic and even in some cases minor surgery (very minor, and mainly in the case of practice nurses).
This shift in nursing, intriguingly is mirrored by a subtle shift in its gender assignation: it is more acceptable now that there are male nurses. It is still, however, primarily auxillary to the role of Doctor, which we culturally still see as 'male', despite women's participation in that field. Consequently, we still have a slight cultural discomfort with the male nurse.
Currently a very interesting trend is happening within computing. The more highly technological the field, the more likely it will be coded male, at least at the higher levels. We are over a quarter of a century in to the true 'computer age' and our cultural markers for people who work within the computer industries, both hardware and software are overwhelmingly male. There have always been women working in the field, but it's only relatively recently that women have started to go into it in numbers that could change the landscape. It's quite interesting to watch that change.
K that turned out way more rambling than I'd intended...but in a nutshell, economic and technological changes of magnitude tend to enforce a redefinition, or reinforcement of gender identities, which is played out through workplaces and popular discourse.
To be a man is to live your life by the army values. I taught this to my son & even my two older daughters. They can all recite them. I make my troops adhere to this standard and I think it is a good guide for all. That being said, I have found my life to be more aligned with the Man from LaMancha - To dream the impossible dream..........
I know this all sounds cliche, but if you live those 7 values you'll be a responsible adult
Most of us haven't been in the army. What are those 7 values?
Everybody learns them as they enter service from day one. They do change about every 5 years and people try to redefine them. They are much different from the ones I learned back in the late 70's but they remain pretty close in intent.
These are the current ones:
Loyalty
Bear true faith and allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, the Army, your unit, and other soldier.
Duty
Fulfill your obligations.
Respect
Treat people as they should be treated.
Selfless Service
Put the welfare of the Nation, the Army, and your subordinates before your own.
Honor
Live up to all the Army Values.
Integrity
Do what’s right, legally and morally.
Personal Courage
Face fear, danger, or adversity both physical or moral.
My Mom taught me all those values.
The Army becomes the mother to many.
Wait a second, one of the 7 values that you are supposed to follow in the Army is to follow the 7 Values? Seems like there are only 6 values then, because it's sort of understood that the values are already there to be followed.
Overall, I like them. They are good values.
K that turned out way more rambling than I'd intended...but in a nutshell, economic and technological changes of magnitude tend to enforce a redefinition, or reinforcement of gender identities, which is played out through workplaces and popular discourse.
My Doctor, Dentist, and Boss, are female. They all probably think I'm difficult. :lol:
You can't tell me that men don't think about "manly" stuff, regardless of whether it's pc to say males and females should have the same virtues. (And by stuff, I do not mean pron!) Expected male behavior has changed so much in the last 50 years, thanks in part to a great deal of hard work by women, that I'm thinking it must be a very hard idea to pin down.
What do modern men think is proper male behavior?
I think nothing about it. I behave the way it seems ... good, proper, appropriate... whatever word you might attach to behave. I go to work. I warn my boss that something's coming down the pike we need to deal with. I make a cup of coffee. I stop to buy gas. I cook dinner. I install molding. I watch
House. I drink Cheerwine. I eat pizza. I read a book. etc. etc. etc.
I do all these things and others because I want to, or because I feel they're necessary for me for some reason--whether for my own well-being or due to some obligation I have to other people. I don't do any of them because "I'm a man" or "Men are supposed to do X."
Currently a very interesting trend is happening within computing. The more highly technological the field, the more likely it will be coded male, at least at the higher levels. We are over a quarter of a century in to the true 'computer age' and our cultural markers for people who work within the computer industries, both hardware and software are overwhelmingly male. There have always been women working in the field, but it's only relatively recently that women have started to go into it in numbers that could change the landscape. It's quite interesting to watch that change.
There is a micro trend within that which is fascinating to me, here in the southern US. Among lower-economic Hispanics, computers are very much
not masculine, they are feminine. This is because they have no exposure to the geeky male model, the only place computers exist for them is in their mothers' administrative jobs--i.e., bookkeeping, human resources, secretaries. Ask a group of Hispanic boys if they want to learn about computers, and they will laugh it off as equivalent to playing with Barbie dolls.
Now that really is fascinating. I love gender questions. They're so fundamental to how we see ourselves and yet so knotty as to be almost unfathomable.
Wait a second, one of the 7 values that you are supposed to follow in the Army is to follow the 7 Values? Seems like there are only 6 values then, because it's sort of understood that the values are already there to be followed.
Overall, I like them. They are good values.
I noticed that too, but I also agree, nevermind. Pretty good ethos for anyone, and especially for an army.
I better ask the Magic Eight Ball. More definitive responses...;)
Hey I am still composing my answer.
Apparently being a man means taking a damn long time to answer a bloomin' question, and even then effectively saying "it's none of your damn business" :p
Mostly it means being able to pee standing up. I am more defined by the fact that I am a computer geek, a musician, and a Christian, than by my gender.
"Obama says" take a moment to be a dad!
"Obama says" take a moment to be a dad!
Awesome Idea! If you have kids. What about all those role models who are males that don't have kids? They are the ones that need to think about that the most IMHO. Black Americans need good male role models.
Black Americans need good male role models.
Like Obama?
Absolutely. But he is hardly enough. Obama is a fantastic contribution to half white half black Americans. And I think he does much to supress the overt disdain that many people have for mixed marriges. That can't be anything but good for America in the long run.
Part of what makes this difficult is defining things that a purely masculine. For example
Homeovestism.
I know what a woman would wear, but what would a man wear.
A man should wear a condom and a large caliber handgun.
Oh, and if he's having sex, spurs.
Apparently being a man means women on the internet will tell you what it means?
Bruce, you cook my haggis.
This one
Selfless Service
Put the welfare of the Nation, the Army, and your subordinates before your own.
appeals to me a lot as a military virtue.
I absolutely despise commanders and generals who do not care for and value their troops.
Caesar, while conquering Gaul, refused to let his men engage the enemy in battle in certain circumstances. His men challenged him, why won't you let us fight them? He explained that they did not have as much of a strategic advantage as he believed they could get by some more maneuvering, and he didn't want to lose
any of them unless he really couldn't help it. I'm sure he said it better, and in Latin, but that was the general point.
By contrast, compare some comments from WWI generals: "What do you mean, we've only lost eight thousand men today? The plan was to lose ten thousand! Send two thousand more!"
Examples abound. Patton's behaviour in Sicily was just as bad, sending a division into battle merely to prevent it from being transferred to a different general (against orders).
Ah, but Patton was sure they could win.
Patton inspired a unique loyalty and spirit in his men that enabled his troops to win quicker and with fewer casualties than everyone else.
Knowing that women use the love word loosely.