humans
we tend to neglect looking at ourselves.
our actions as a species as a whole.
our perceptions, beliefs and fears can be blamed for our actions.
[youtube]ggtxA4wuXzY[/youtube]
it is that which seperates us from all others species that causes our retardation.
[youtube]1gKX9TWRyfs[/youtube]
i'd start a revoloution
[youtube]P2Fd4J7se0U[/youtube]
I take no responsibility for what you humans do.:headshake
humans don't look at themselves? on what planet? humans are obsessed with their appearance!
Wtf? WHiP came out of the gambling thread?
Wtf? WHiP came out of the gambling thread?
He's realizing he can no longer be a one trick pony. :3_eyes:
He's ventured into other threads, just not loudly.
Reminds me of how good a shark steak can be.
or long pig inside a shark buried in coals for 24 hrs. mmmm.... good eatin'
The explosives on the Twin Towers section on Zeitgeist movie was a bunch of malarkey. My job for a long time in the Army was to figure out how much explosives it would take to do a job, like dropping a span on a bridge, how many man hours, how many vehicles to haul said explosives and all of the cordage and what not to hook up said explosives. for a job like the one described....the sections with the explosives placed on them would have had to have been uncovered, entire floors stripped so that work teams could have placed the explosives directly on the structural beams...on like every other floor. Wow, truck loads of of equipment and explosives for the size of that building. All while no one working in the buildings noticed?
The work would have had to have started years ago to keep it a secret. I don't think so.
The answer for the guys in the basement feeling the "explosion" first, energy travels faster down the structural beams, which are designed by the way, to transfer energy to ground. The plane hitting the building transferred a hell of a lot of energy, heck yea they felt in the basement.
I think what bothers me the most is that there are people who will watch a movie like this and take as gospel truth.
american minds don't seem to grasp the economical reality in the usa.
these powers they speak of, are not simply anti-human, they are also anti-american.
this shouldn't be a suprise to americans, who's fore-fathers warned of these powers emerging.[george washington, thomas jefferson]
regular joe, what bothers me the most is that there are people who will take anything as gospel truth.
substitute the words [COLOR="Sienna"]god[/COLOR] and [COLOR="Sienna"]jesus[/COLOR] with '[COLOR="Magenta"]pink unicorn[/COLOR]', and you'll see how many people in this world a truly insane.
what is the difference between [COLOR="Sienna"]god[/COLOR] and the [COLOR="Magenta"]pink unicorn[/COLOR] ?
If God is all things then there would be no difference, I suppose.
The fact is that I cannot convince anyone else that God, or Pink Unicorns do or do not exist. We all must go on our own experience. I've had life experience that tells me the part of the movie Zeitgeist that that deals with explosives is wrong. I can tell you what I think about the other two parts, but I really have no experience with theology or banking. It certainly sounds interesting.
I'm not sure what your point is through all of this yet, I think your brain is bigger than mine. Would you break it down Barney style for me?
Where do they sell roasted "Pink Unicorn":p
Both have a penchant for virgins?
One can see both while tripping on acid?
I'm not sure what your point is through all of this yet, I think your brain is bigger than mine. Would you break it down Barney style for me?
I love you
You love me
it's a conspir'cy
the-or-y
put a foil hat on your head
dig a bomb shelter
get yourself an R-P-G.
Pink unicorns are real
as real as god is
One can see both while tripping on acid?
thats about the best answer anyone could possibly give.
I can tell you what I think about the other two parts, but I really have no experience with theology or banking. It certainly sounds interesting.
I'm not sure what your point is through all of this yet, I think your brain is bigger than mine. Would you break it down Barney style for me?
my objective is to get humans to stop pointing at other humans as if they're another species.
humans have a hard time grasping what their own nature is.
your nature is not that of a loving, kind, gentle species.
thats called conditioning, its the result of powers, controlling the masses.
human nature is of war, murder, theft and rape.
even with the man made penalties for some of these natural actions of ours, we continue to do them at record breaking rates.
not a point in our recorded history shows us doing otherwise.
the nature of a species can be determined by observing the actions of a species through-out years of observation.
after observing our kind, it is safe to say, without doubt, that all the above, are human nature, wether you like it or not.
humans tends to create a seperation, between themselves and the rest of humanity, wether it be a religious seperation, or a race seperation, or even a seperation of nations.
imo, this is so wrong..... a christian would say that the people that are doing these actions are all going to hell while the rest of us are going to heaven, or they're black and we're white, or their anti-american and we're american.
regardless of what side of these seperations you're on, you're missing the point.
you are human, what you lack, is the true reality of what that means.
if there is something devine about us, it is not this temporary vessel we're in.
if there is something devine about us, it is not this temporary vessel we're in.
Agreed. And that is a big IF there is something divine about us.
humans have a hard time grasping what their own nature is. your nature is not that of a loving, kind, gentle species.
thats called conditioning, its the result of powers, controlling the masses.
human nature is of war, murder, theft and rape.
The good and the bad go together, but mostly humans are good. Look around you. Seriously. Right now. Look around the room. Everything in your sight was built by another human being. They cooperated with you, or they cooperated with someone who cooperated with you, so you could have all this stuff. You have a roof over your head, and you didn't built it. Don't tell me that humans suck. You owe your entire lifestyle to the kindness of strangers. Who grew your food? Who wove the cloth in your clothes? Who built your house? Other humans.
The good and the bad go together, but mostly humans are good.
there is no good and bad.
your perception of good is actually bad in anothers perception.
most people in ignorance would assume that reproducing is good and murder is bad.
in this day and age, its quite the opposite way around.
reproducing this species when we've already surpassed the 7 billion mark would be a bad thing.
murder on the other hand, given our numbers and actions, is a blessing.
Look around you. Seriously. Right now. Look around the room. Everything in your sight was built by another human being. They cooperated with you, or they cooperated with someone who cooperated with you, so you could have all this stuff. You have a roof over your head, and you didn't built it. Don't tell me that humans suck. You owe your entire lifestyle to the kindness of strangers. Who grew your food? Who wove the cloth in your clothes? Who built your house? Other humans.
these things you mention are our crimes.
serving humanity at the expense of all other life.
what action of ours has benefited anything on this planet, other than ourselves.
what is it that were doing exactly that would place us, in our minds, superior to any other life form... certainly not our actions.
other than the theories of jesus and pink unicorns, which are simply imaginary retardations of our mind, we hold no purpose here, other than the selfish destruction of all that is around us, without an glimmer or respect for anything.
these things you mention are our crimes.
serving humanity at the expense of all other life.
I though you were talking about human nature towards one another. You were talking about war and crime and shit like that. Not pollution.
But even so, we don't live at the expense of
every life form. There are billions and billions of life forms on this planet that owe their very existence to humans. Start with the bacteria in your gut and work your way up through the cockroaches and rat and pets and livestock.
ok - wtf? now I'm really depressed. . . sulks away.
i was talking about human nature.
this planet may be crude by nature, but we take the cake.
what bothers me the most is that there are people who will take anything as gospel truth.
substitute the words [COLOR="Sienna"]god[/COLOR] and [COLOR="Sienna"]jesus[/COLOR] with '[COLOR="Magenta"]pink unicorn[/COLOR]', and you'll see how many people in this world a truly insane.
what is the difference between [COLOR="Sienna"]god[/COLOR] and the [COLOR="Magenta"]pink unicorn[/COLOR] ?
so the man tells the people, and then the pink unicorn said unto me 'yada yada yada'.
who is more insane?
the person talking, or the people listening, believing, and teaching their children what the pink unicorn said through this man?
the real funny thing, is that the people in power today, are still speaking of pink unicorns.... and you're voting for them.
Since the pink unicorn doesn't exist, it really doesn't matter. How could we possibly commit crimes against anything, everything is the result of random mutation, one mutation has more of an advantage over another. There isn't even anything like free will involved, just the illusion. A chemical oddity of our brain matter. Even the guy teaching about the unicorn has no real choice in the matter, he's just part of the fabric.
If this is all true, then why should I be upset about the natural course of things?
Am I missing the point?
Since the pink unicorn doesn't exist, it really doesn't matter. How could we possibly commit crimes against anything, everything is the result of random mutation, one mutation has more of an advantage over another. There isn't even anything like free will involved, just the illusion. A chemical oddity of our brain matter. Even the guy teaching about the unicorn has no real choice in the matter, he's just part of the fabric.
the guy teaching about the pink unicorn is insane, as are the people believing what the crazy person said.
today, the man would be institutionalized.
of course, back then, people were more gullible.... so why do people still follow these crazy people from thousands of years ago?
If this is all true, then why should I be upset about the natural course of things?
no one is telling you to be upset... you can remain content with what you are.
Am I missing the point?
i don't think so, the point is about self realization.
its about our species taking a good look in the mirror.
Thanks for the permission for me to be content with what I am. I appreciate that.
The guy teaching about God, or the Pink Unicorn is insane by whose standard? It really is a matter of perspective and belief, and perspective. Insanity is not a clear view of reality, or a view of something that isn't real. If I believe in God and you don't; you think I'm insane for believing in something that doesn't exist, and I think you are insane for not having a clear view of reality. We are not going to convince each other other wise.
jews believe all gentiles[non-jews], should be killed, and their children.
muslims believe all infidels[non-muslims] should be converted, or else killed.
christianity has killed more innocent people for not being christian than all other religions combined.
the pink unicorn, which ever one of the above he actually is, is one mean motherfucker.
hopefully all 3 pink unicorns are real, then we could erase the crudest species off this planet.... but no, that kind of blessing does not await this world.
Whippin post, did you really do that poorly in the football pool to take it out on all of humanity?:rolleyes:
Whippin post, did you really do that poorly in the football pool to take it out on all of humanity?:rolleyes:
i didn't particpate in the football pool.
not that winning or losing monopoly money would alter my emotions anyways.
whats wrong there classicman, is the topic to intense for you to particpate in?
not at all - Pink Unicorns are one of my strong suits.
By the way smartypants, Didja notice the smilie? (Hold your mouse over it and see what it says. :p
[COLOR="White"](just bustin' your chops there big boy)[/COLOR]
not at all - Pink Unicorns are one of my strong suits.
i don't like pink unicorns.
there's been hundreds and hundreds of various pink unicorns through-out history.
pink unicorns can be held responsible for the stupification of our kind.
who knows how advanced we'd be if we we're free from these blind-folds.
[COLOR="White"](just bustin' your chops there big boy)[/COLOR]
[COLOR="white"]i figured you were, its becoming a daily thing for you.
am i your obsession?[/COLOR]
is the topic to intense for you to particpate in?
This topic isn't intense, just philosophical. The fact that you, being Canadian, directly benefits from a massive genocide and relocation of the native population along with the exploitation of people across the globe is an intense topic. Don't think that just because you live north of us doesn't mean you don't still benefit from the exact same things that you look down on us for.
This topic isn't intense, just philosophical. The fact that you, being Canadian, directly benefits from a massive genocide and relocation of the native population along with the exploitation of people across the globe is an intense topic. Don't think that just because you live north of us doesn't mean you don't still benefit from the exact same things that you look down on us for.
there you go with the seperation thing again.
i'm speaking of humanity, as a whole, without any seperations.
we are a species that includes males and females of all races, from all nations.
all the damages that are made to this planet, are being made by us.
its not the cat or the trees or the fish, its us.
we're the bad guys.
and what is it that is causing us to be the bad guys?
is it not that which seperates us from all other species?
our mind.... which is dependant upon this temporary vessel.
if consciousness isn't dependant on this vessel, than it is a superior tool than this temporary one.
perhaps we're not all mature enough to function beyond this temporary self.
Yeah...our intelligence as a species definitely separates us from the rest of the life on Earth. We can think ahead and strategically, we can figure out our needs and then create tools that help us fulfill those needs, we can mobilize for war and we can compromise in tough situations, we can over consume resources and we can replenish environments.
perhaps we're not all mature enough to function beyond this temporary self.
This question is much more complicated then a simple yes or no. Much of our lifestyle is not sustainable but since we live in a world with boundaries, we will be forced to change.
This question is much more complicated then a simple yes or no. Much of our lifestyle is not sustainable but since we live in a world with boundaries, we will be forced to change.
perhaps it is the mind itself which is our greatest boundary.
speaking on a metaphysical level.
and what is it that is causing us to be the bad guys?
is it not that which seperates us from all other species?
our mind.... which is dependant upon this temporary vessel.
I disagree. What renders us capable of wreaking havoc might be our intellects. What actually makes us do it, can usually be found in the older parts of our brain. We just clothe it in philosophy or the skins of pink unicorns as a rationalisation of our animal instincts.
i figured you were, its becoming a daily thing for you. am i your obsession?
nah - just nice to interact a bit with you outside of the gambling threads.
I disagree. What renders us capable of wreaking havoc might be our intellects. What actually makes us do it, can usually be found in the older parts of our brain. We just clothe it in philosophy or the skins of pink unicorns as a rationalisation of our animal instincts.
the brain, thought ...thats what i was refering to.
killing off 90 percent of the shark population over the past 10 years, by catching them, cutting off their fins, and throwing the remaining body back in the water in order to sell a bowl of shark fin soup in the east for 100 bucks a bowl, is due to the belief that sharks have magical powers and keep people from getting cancer[false]
killing 1 miilion women[catholic church] because they had freckles or birthmarks[signs of satan], by burning them at the stake.
the poisoning of the air and the waters across the globe.
the imprisoment of all life forms.
our complete lack of respect when dealing with other species on this planet.
nagasaki, hiroshima... i don't care so much for the people lost, but our total lack of considering the rest of life that was lost and damaged.
we still, to this day have not considered it, not even for a second.
its our thoughts, our brain, our physical mind.... it is the cause for all these actions.
nah - just nice to interact a bit with you outside of the gambling threads.
its all good classicman, i have been out before you know, you must have missed me.
the brain, thought ...thats what i was refering to.
No, you were referring to this:
and what is it that is causing us to be the bad guys?
is it not that which seperates us from all other species?
our mind....
Our mind is what separates from other species and what allows us to cause such havoc. But it's our brains and specifically the older parts of it which lead us to act destructively, and competitively, and selfishly (as individuals or groups) and those parts of our brain are what link us to other species. The instincts which lead to our destructive behaviour are ancient and animal.
[eta] just as an additional point: religion doesn't create destruction and murderous intent; it can however be a vehicle for it. As can any mass concept. Religion stunting our development as a species can only really be argued against specific cases of development, applying it as a factor at a species level is too fraught with additional (often immeasurable) factors to be meaningful. What has potentially stunted our development as a species (and this only works if you believe there is an endgoal to our development, and a timeframe in which we ought really to have reached it, in other words an optimum speed of 'development') is us, specifically, our capacity for/instinctive desire to sublimate ourselves into a larger identity. Given that such an instinctive desire is most likely derived from a part of our brain much older than the mass identities we have fostered and given names to, one could make an argument for this being precisely where we 'should' be in our species' development.
Danac, i'm not quite sure where it is that we disagree.
i'm saying that the physical human brain is to blame for our actions.
you're saying the physical human brain is at fault as well, you're just being more specific.
you wanna elaborate, maybe i'm missing something that you haven't quite made evident
i don't like pink unicorns.
there's been hundreds and hundreds of various pink unicorns through-out history.
pink unicorns can be held responsible for the stupification of our kind.
who knows how advanced we'd be if we we're free from these blind-folds.
My point is that it isn't actually the pink unicorns which have retarded us. We haven't been 'retarded'. There is no end-goal. There is no optimum speed of development. The blindfolds are a part of what we are now. They are where we have developed to. Or more specifically, our capacity for blindfolding ourselves is where we have developed to. You can make specific arguments for the retardation of specific elements of specific societies/groups/communities, by particular stages in a particular pink unicorn's development...but that cannot be applied at a species level in any meaningful way.
I realise that to an extent this is semantic, but semantics are important. I agree with some of what you say. But there are certain points I do not agree with. We both seem to agree that humans are animals and in no way divine. That Gods are merely pink unicorns blindfolding large numbers of people and standing in direct opposition to reason and science. I disagree with idea that religion itself has retarded our development. I disagree that we have been retarded as a species at all. I disagree that what separates us from other species is what has caused our destructiveness. Rather, I think that what separates us is the thing that allows us to 'look in the mirror' as you put it.
What separates us from other species is potentially the thing that will allow us to reign in, or halt our destructiveness. By harnessing the same animal instincts which gave us something to reign in or halt.
I suppose in a sense we are looking at the same thing, but where you seem to view it in a pessimistic way, I don't.
Are you two making distinctions between the mind vs the brain?
It sort of seemed so at one point. Dana is narrowing it down to the primitive brain now.
If we raise up constructs like the unicorn and the church as vehicles to worship or commit crimes that would be the mind? Seems this is what WHIP is saying anyway?
I'm sure you both know better than me.I'm just asking. Mildly curious.*shrug*
you've got the picture skysidhe.
danac, i assume our difference is located at the base of our perceptions.
most would view me as extreme as i see us as secondary to the rest of this world...expendable even, for the good of all.
For the good of all what?
and who is 'us'? The human race? and whatever happened to the good guy wins scenario. There must be something worth salvaging?
I am sure there is as much good as bad. It's just that the good doesn't get as much coverage or recognition.I think people see what they want to see. That too is a mind frame just as dark as any other. Just as the Church looking for witches.
Human life isn't linear to me. It's cyclical. Even if the worst was to happen life would once again emerge and or human life would continue and learn from it's mistakes and progress into something better.
Even if the worst was to happen life would once again emerge and or human life would continue and learn from it's mistakes and progress into something better.
When have humans as a whole ever learned from our mistakes?
Humans will adapt and move on just so we can fuck it up again later. :D
For the good of all what?
for the good of all..... life, this planet, all the things we could destroy in time.
and who is 'us'? The human race? and whatever happened to the good guy wins scenario.
umm, i thought it was safe to assume that i am human, so yeah, us.
the good guy wins scenario would have us[the bad guy] erased, along with this cement jail cell we've built.
There must be something worth salvaging?
yes, this earth, and the non-human life thats on it.
the only way to salvage it, is to get rid of the species that destroys it.
I am sure there is as much good as bad. It's just that the good doesn't get as much coverage or recognition.I think people see what they want to see. That too is a mind frame just as dark as any other. Just as the Church looking for witches.
as above, you wanna enlighten us pointing out some of the good humanity is doing for the rest of life that the media is not covering.
btw,i am the witch the church was seeking.
Human life isn't linear to me. It's cyclical. Even if the worst was to happen life would once again emerge and or human life would continue and learn from it's mistakes and progress into something better.
decreasing our population should be the number 1 focus for our species at this time, but again, how do you suggest we go about doing that?
china made the first step 30 years ago.
even if the rest of the world followed, it would be too late.
a nuclear bomb over india,[no offense, going by numbers'] would be a good start, but would still not be solving the problem.
aids helps, but we made the mistake of educating the people in how to avoid it.[we're not really learning here]
war has been our greatest blessing as it has kept us under 50 billion.
but still, its not enough, we'd have to be on world war 8 to keep up with our reproductive rate.
maybe a good virus would do the trick, inject a transmitable deadly virus into a large percentage of the world population, and we might actually be on to something....lets see how that works out for us.
Millions of types of critters have died out, and millions of new types came along to take their place. 3 or 4 times 90% of the life on Earth has been wiped out entirely... and came back. All this without our help. The Earth is constanly evolving.
Granted we have the power to steer that evolution some, but don't fool yourself, the Earth will survive long after we're gone, if it comes to that.
Millions of types of critters have died out, and millions of new types came along to take their place. 3 or 4 times 90% of the life on Earth has been wiped out entirely... and came back. All this without our help. The Earth is constanly evolving.
Granted we have the power to steer that evolution some, but don't fool yourself, the Earth will survive long after we're gone, if it comes to that.
no doubt the earth will survive after we're gone.
the meantime is what we're looking at.
Anyone that really gives a damn can volunteer.
Greenpeace
Earth Island Insitute
National Wildlife Federation
Rainforest Action Network
Rainforst Foundation
Nature Conservatory
Worldlife Wildlife Fund
Oraganization Save the Earth Foundation
Mercy Corps
Peace Corps
Humanitarian and International Relief Organizations
Action Against Hunger
American Red Cross
BAPS Care International
CARE
Direct Relief International
GOAL
Global Giving
Habitat for Humanity International
International Federation Red Cross and Red Crescent
Islamic Relief Worldwide
Network for Good
Oxfam International
People to People International
Save the Children
UNICEF
United Way
World Food Programme
World Vision
Anyone that really gives a damn can volunteer.
Greenpeace
Earth Island Insitute
National Wildlife Federation
Rainforest Action Network
Rainforst Foundation
Nature Conservatory
Worldlife Wildlife Fund
Oraganization Save the Earth Foundation
Mercy Corps
Peace Corps
Humanitarian and International Relief Organizations
Action Against Hunger
American Red Cross
BAPS Care International
CARE
Direct Relief International
GOAL
Global Giving
Habitat for Humanity International
International Federation Red Cross and Red Crescent
Islamic Relief Worldwide
Network for Good
Oxfam International
People to People International
Save the Children
UNICEF
United Way
World Food Programme
World Vision
decreasing our population should be the number 1 focus for our species at this time
umm, yeah, how do any of these help us decrease our population?
most of these are for the benefit of humans.
quite the opposite of the objective.
you've not listed any actions of ours that benefit non-human life.
some of these have their focus on attempting to fix problems that we've caused, but that is still a negative against us, not a positive.
its like destroying 90 percent of the rainforrests and then planting some seeds, or like dropping a bomb on a school, and handing out a few band-aids to the few survivors attempting to take credit for helping.
The Earth can support an even greater population then we have today. It will just require a setup that is efficient with resources. If you really want to do something WHIP, work on making creating social setups that do just that. Decreasing the world population is not the only option.
piercehawkeye45, why should humanity continue to exist.
what is it exactly about us that deserves to continue?
lets pretend that i have a button in front of me that by pressing it, humanity sill cease to exist.
i'd like someone to give me a reason not to press it, for at this time, i have nothing to stop me from pressing it.
can anyone think of anything to tell me to defend our kind?
someone with a purpose, stop me.
If everyone swept their own front porch, the world will be clean. The cessation of humanity starts at home.
UPDATE
The curve for population has changed. It is no longer the doomsday scenario: growth is slowing.
Most European nations do not produce enough offspring to even achieve zero population growth.
It's been unequivocally shown that the best way to slow a country's population growth is to improve their education and economic status. All you have to do is make the world a better place, W.HI.P.
Get to it!
lets pretend that i have a button in front of me that by pressing it, humanity sill cease to exist.
i'd like someone to give me a reason not to press it, for at this time, i have nothing to stop me from pressing it.
OMG, he's a suicidal Muslim. :eek:
piercehawkeye45, why should humanity continue to exist.
In the grand outlook of things, there is no reason for anything to exist or not to exist. No matter what humans do, the universe and the Earth will move on. But, I enjoy existence and I'm sure most other humans do as well, so the best reason I have is for the enjoyment of our pointless existence. Its not like any other current animal species will enjoy existence more then us.
OK, thats it, i'm pressing the button.
i give you guys 24 hours to give me a reason not to eliminate humanity.
Europe is not really the problem are of our overpopulation.
overpopulation is not the main objective of this discussion.
also, making this world a better place for humans is not the key.... we've been trying to do that since day 1, but our attempts has only made it worse in the long run.
the problem is what we are.
that seems to be what were having a hard time grasping.
we paint all these pretty pictures around us to hide the reality of what we are.
Can anyone without a fairy tale about a pink unicorn bring some light and purpose to our existence?
can anyone defend us with conviction as to stop me from pressing this button?
Hahaha, did you just find out about the nihilistic argument? Life is hard and unforgiving, I doubt anyone here will disagree, but the best way to get past that is attempting to enjoy it. Remember, whether the glass is half full or half empty, it still has the same amount of water in it. So might as well look at it from the half full side.
Can anyone without a fairy tale about a pink unicorn bring some light and purpose to our existence?
Well duh, survial and reproduction, like every other plant/animal/insect on the planet. Some are successful, some are not.
can anyone defend us with conviction as to stop me from pressing this button?
We don't need defending, we're doing what every critter is doing, we just do it better.
I have wealth, i enjoy my work very much, i love family members, i'm as content as a man can be....this is not about struggle, or the viewing of a half full/empty glass.
what i'm not content with, is the species that i am.
i can't stand our ignorance and disrespect for life.
i would much rather be a cat(any size) ...a much superior species than our own.... i would reproduce as much as possible if that was the case.
but that is not the case, as i am part of a species, who's actions on this planet place us lower than rats roaches.
i would much rather be a cat(any size) ...a much superior species than our own.... i would reproduce as much as possible if that was the case.
:rotflol: Cats? Superior? You are a sick fuck... push the button. :lol2:
i would much rather be a cat(any size) ...a much superior species than our own.... i would reproduce as much as possible if that was the case.
Well, you could always become a furry.
Laughing at cats are ya?
They ruled this earth a lot longer than we have, and they certainly did a better job than we have.
Even with smaller domestic cats today, anyone who lives with one could tell you that cats see us as their slaves, unlike the dog who tends to worship us as if we were gods.
so yeah, the cat, clearly superior, on every level....even within our rulership of this earth, during the roman empire, tens of thousands of people would watch the fight between a cat and a human, and cheer as the superior species was victorious
Yeah, yeah, and if cats could drive, they would run over you in a heartbeat, and not give it a thought. Survival and reproduction, Baby, that's the bottom line. Everything else is mental masturbation. :haha:
Ever watch a cat torture a mouse before he kills it? Yeah that's real superior.:rolleyes:
also, making this world a better place for humans is not the key.... we've been trying to do that since day 1, but our attempts has only made it worse in the long run.
Haven't studied history much? The last century alone has been an incredible boon to humanity. We've advanced by every measure you can name. Go ahead, name some measures.
Naturally occuring immunity to disease [COLOR="LemonChiffon"](is not one)[/COLOR]
Number of W.HI.P.s posting on internet boards.
Haven't studied history much? The last century alone has been an incredible boon to humanity. We've advanced by every measure you can name. Go ahead, name some measures.
i was refering to the future ut
our attempts has only made it worse in the long run.
these advancments have a cost.
you guys still haven't figured out what we are.
we're food.
those that were meant to feed on us have been long gone, we've simply jumped the fence... like chickens out of the hen.
thats why ya'll can't find a purpose for your existence so you cling to these silly pink unicorn stories.
i bet you all think you're on top of the food chain.
i hate to break it you, even though you've broken the fence and escaped, you are still being fed on by various life forms that are ,without doubt, higher than we are on the food chain.
these higher life forms, given our overpopulation, are our true blessings.
You've got to put down the crack pipe before you can form a coherent thought, man.
We're food.
Except no one eats us anymore.
Except we're arrogant to think no one eats us.
Because things totally do eat us.
This train-of-thought thing isn't working out so well for you.
Its those aliens that we act like don't exist - silly clodfobble
He's channeling L. Ron Hubbard! :eek:
You've got to put down the crack pipe before you can form a coherent thought, man.
We're food.
Except no one eats us anymore.
Except we're arrogant to think no one eats us.
Because things totally do eat us.
This train-of-thought thing isn't working out so well for you.
The whole threads premise is hashed this way and it is irksome.
Whip don't you feel that you have elevated your mind to judge,jury and wishful thinking executioner for the entire human race? You have renounced unicorns but not the one stemming from your own mind.You are looking for purpose. A grandiose reason for life on this earth but don't find one. Purpose in life is individual. Many seek to better the world. Many wish to harm it. Aren't you being what you hate? or is this just for fun?
Lack of purpose in ones own life doesn't condemn the whole human race. If your purpose is the look down on your own race then I refer you back to your original post or two.
I think this is just one big joke thread though. I don't think you are serious any more. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt.
Humans as a race are just a biological organism like any other. We're born, we do our thing, then we die. Whether there's a God or not is beside the point. We just ARE. There's no other point to existence.
You'll put yourself into one of those mind loops and short ciruit your brain trying to figure out the meaning of life.
Don't you know many people of far greater intellect than anyone here have been pondering this question for thousands of years??? ;)
…And then, one Thursday, nearly two thousand years after one man had been nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change, a girl sitting on her own in a small café in Rickmansworth suddenly realised what it was that had been going wrong all this time, and she finally knew how the world could be made a good and happy place. This time it was right, it would work, and no one would have to get nailed to anything.
Sadly, however, before she could get to a phone to tell anyone about it, a terrible stupid catastrophe occurred, and the idea was lost forever.
Laughing at cats are ya?
They ruled this earth a lot longer than we have, and they certainly did a better job than we have.
Even with smaller domestic cats today, anyone who lives with one could tell you that cats see us as their slaves, unlike the dog who tends to worship us as if we were gods.
so yeah, the cat, clearly superior, on every level....even within our rulership of this earth, during the roman empire, tens of thousands of people would watch the fight between a cat and a human, and cheer as the superior species was victorious
Oh my, I haven't been paying attention to this thread lately. I had no idea it had become such a riot.
I'm gonna go out on a limb with my kitty here and agree that cats are the superior species.
Think about it. They don't ask stupid questions like why are we here; they don't question the purpose of existance (its to eat cat treats and climb the curtains, stupid). They don't ever say, we live and we die and then what?
Cats keep an eye on the bottom line. :rolleyes:
samiam, cute post
poetic pie
Humans as a race are just a biological organism like any other. We're born, we do our thing, then we die. Whether there's a God or not is beside the point. We just ARE. There's no other point to existence.
i concur
You'll put yourself into one of those mind loops and short ciruit your brain trying to figure out the meaning of life.
i think we've had enough ignorance with the whole orthodox, believe and do not question law.
those in power, wether they be religious powers from the past, or goverment powers in the present day, want us to not think.
its within their benefit to keep humanity stupid.
and we are stupid......truly.
Don't you know many people of far greater intellect than anyone here have been pondering this question for thousands of years??? ;)
yes, and should continue to do so.
The whole threads premise is hashed this way and it is irksome.
Whip don't you feel that you have elevated your mind to judge,jury and wishful thinking executioner for the entire human race?
everyone i have ever met is racist or biggoted on some level.
the majority of things that have made everyone i've ever met, racist or biggoted to some degree, are actually based on valid observations.
the mistake people make, is seperating themselves from the people that they are racist or biggoted against.
i simply don't exclude myself from the people i'm pointing at.
i'm pointing at humanity, as a whole, without any seperations, and i have the right to do so, being human.
i may sound extreme at times, but maybe my actual view-points are not as much on the edge as i present them.
perhaps the projection to extremes that i point out are to balance the already opposite extreme viewpoints i see in humanity's perceptions.
You have renounced unicorns but not the one stemming from your own mind.
the term unicorn for god, is meant to show any interactions or rituals that involve pink unicorns as insanity.
You are looking for purpose. A grandiose reason for life on this earth but don't find one. Purpose in life is individual. Many seek to better the world. Many wish to harm it.
death will bring forth truth, no need to go believing various things without true knowledge.
as far as making the world better or harm it, this is part of my debates.
Aren't you being what you hate? or is this just for fun?
no, not for fun.
where exactly did i say anything about me hating?
Lack of purpose in ones own life doesn't condemn the whole human race. If your purpose is the look down on your own race then I refer you back to your original post or two.
I think this is just one big joke thread though. I don't think you are serious any more. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt.
sorry to disapoint you.
.
Clodfobble, i guess you're having some trouble grasping the whole food chain thing, thats ok, i'll help you.
above us on the food chain would be viruses, bacteria, who feed off a lot of life forms, including us.
we might consume fungus, but that does not rank us higher on the food chain than the life forms mentioned above.
above us on the food chain would be viruses, bacteria, who feed off a lot of life forms, including us. we might consume fungus, but that does not rank us higher on the food chain than the life forms mentioned above.
♪♫♫♪♫ The ciiiircle oooof liiiiiiife! ♪♫♫♪♫
It's supposed to be musical notes. Sorry.
whip
Imagine the world without humans. I am sure you have some image in your head. What does it look like?
Where is the purpose in that?
Don't mention man or what he has done to ruin it.
Just the natural world as it would be without man.
What purpose would there be in that?
The purpose of a world without man is the same as the purpose of a world with man.
Both comprise the null set.
whip
Imagine the world without humans. I am sure you have some image in your head. What does it look like?
i'm obviously not a religious person, but i have studied religion.
while studying christianity, i did picture what heaven would be like....and you've just described my image exactly.
Where is the purpose in that?
you're speaking like there's some kind of purpose with us in this world.
Don't mention man or what he has done to ruin it.
Just the natural world as it would be without man.
What purpose would there be in that?
i'm thinking of the cement prison that we've built on top of the pillow that existed
i'm thinking of the waters and air being clean.
to sum it up for ya, my images of hell, is that which i've witnessed in this life on this earth we fantasies is ours.
i'm thinking of the cement prison that we've built on top of the pillow that existed
i'm thinking of the waters and air being clean.
to sum it up for ya, my images of hell, is that which i've witnessed in this life on this earth we fantasies is ours.
You live in Canada right?
You live in Canada right?
oui, however, i have travelled 13 years of my life.
Zalgo said what I was looking for or it is at least it is what I was thinking as well.
There isn't a difference. Except the world is a natural world. Maybe if man lived like the American Indians you would find that respect toward the earth those humans had more redeeming.
i'm obviously not a religious person, but i have studied religion.
while studying christianity, i did picture what heaven would be like....and you've just described my image exactly.
I think this bothers you more than you want to admit. I think you want there to be a god and heaven.
you're speaking like there's some kind of purpose with us in this world.
No you are. You keep talking about pink unicorns, religion, the church,pressing the button if someone cannot give you one purpose for the existence of humans and I haven't seen one person arguing that point on a religious level.
i'm thinking of the cement prison that we've built on top of the pillow that existed
i'm thinking of the waters and air being clean.
to sum it up for ya, my images of hell, is that which i've witnessed in this life on this earth we fantasies is ours.
ok
I don't think anyone would argue with that and so it is the heart of the matter finally? I apologize for my confusion but this has been a meandering course of contradictions.
Man's purpose then should be proactive if something about the world is wrong. Man's purpose is always try to improve,learn and become a contributing member for the good of the world in which they live.
Again why not join Greenpeace or some organization like it. There are many that support the natural world.
Man's purpose is to do good in the world before one takes his last breath. That brings meaning to it. Everyone's purpose is different.
There isn't a difference. Except the world is a natural world. Maybe if man lived like the American Indians you would find that respect toward the earth those humans had more redeeming.
American Indians still destroyed the environment, there is really nothing anyone can do to avoid it. Hell, even other animals do it to a point. Cows will eat all the grass in a particular field and will have to move on to another. Humans do the same but just on a much larger scale.
Its just that problems occur when a population stops being self-sustainable.
All this crap about purpose is extremely beside the point. As the Buddha said, we all suffer. We suffer because of our desires. Always we are pulling things toward us or pushing them away. All we have of life is this present moment. The past is gone and the future never comes because its always just today. Treat other beings (especially cats) with kindness and strive to do right action and calm the mind. That's it. No pink unicorns needed. You argue about purposes while your life passes you by.
My point pierce was they originally tried to live in 'harmony' with the land. Nothing is absolute.
Which just reminded me of 'green' technology which attempts to make society become responsible for the earth.
lol sam. ( the part about cats )
My point pierce was they originally tried to live in 'harmony' with the land. Nothing is absolute.
That is more of a stereotype then anything. Every culture destroys it environment. It is true that some native populations were much more respectful to the environment then most "Old World" populations, but I think a lot of "natives living in harmony with the Earth" stuff is highly romanticized, especially when you generalize the entire group of American Indians.
Also, my point is not to be picky but to show that populations that live in harmony with the Earth are extremely rare and romanticized. It is also something that would be impossible for a non-hunter gatherer society to achieve. That is why I would stress sustainability over anything.
i'm thinking of the cement prison that we've built on top of the pillow that existed
i'm thinking of the waters and air being clean.
to sum it up for ya, my images of hell, is that which i've witnessed in this life on this earth we fantasies is ours.
ok
I don't think anyone would argue with that and so it is the heart of the matter finally? I apologize for my confusion but this has been a meandering course of contradictions.
Wrong, I will. The reason for all that concrete, is people were tired of wallowing in the mud, you describe an a "pillow".
You wax poetic about unfettered nature, like the world without people would be a giant Maxfield Parrish painting. Bullshit, go camping in the rain.:eyebrow:
What I think this has been, is an exorcise in mongoso Ego. Really, I'm so damn smart that I know everyone else in the world, that's right, everyone...the entire human race is fucking this place up. It would be better if they were all just gone.
Sure, we will all just drop dead, just for you.
I would stress sustainability over anything.
I said nothing was absolute. They lived sustainably.It's not romanced fiction. Yes you are being picky:p
Wrong, I will. The reason for all that concrete, is people were tired of wallowing in the mud, you describe an a "pillow".
You wax poetic about unfettered nature, like the world without people would be a giant Maxfield Parrish painting. Bullshit, go camping in the rain.:eyebrow:
You crack me up.
Your post reminded me of one the most interesting experiences camping in the rain I had. I grew up camping so that wasn't the interesting part it was when a few years ago I went camping with blind kids. It rained the whole time and I had to show a blind girl how to take a pee in the rain soaked forest who never had to squat before. I eventually found felled trees which made kind of a seat.
Yes there is a lot to be said for modern amenities.
What I think this has been, is an exorcise in mongoso Ego. Really, I'm so damn smart that I know everyone else in the world, that's right, everyone...the entire human race is fucking this place up. It would be better if they were all just gone.
Sure, we will all just drop dead, just for you.
This is why I love men. Blunt and shooting from the hip.
My point pierce was [the Indians] originally tried to live in 'harmony' with the land.
I said nothing was absolute. They lived sustainably.It's not romanced fiction. Yes you are being picky:p
The ecology course I took in college over 20 years ago put that myth to rest. The main reason they were not as bad to the environment as we are is that their numbers were smaller.
Thomas Morton, Description of the Indians in New England (1637)
Of their Custom in burning the Country, and the reason thereof.
The Salvages are accustomed to set fire of the Country in all places where they come, and to burne it twice a year, viz.: at the Spring, and the fall of the leaf. The reason that moves them to doe so, is because it would other wise be so overgrown with underweeds that it would be all a coppice wood, and the people would not be able in any wise to pass through the Country out of a beaten path. . . .
The burning of the grass destroys the underwoods, and so scorcheth the elder trees that it shrinks them, and hinders their growth very much: so that he that will looke to finde large trees and good timbcr, must [look] . . . to finde them on the upland ground. . . .
And least their firing of the Country in this manner should be an occasion of damnifying us, and endangering our habitations, we ourselves have used carefully about the same times to observe the winds, and fire the grounds about our owne habitations; to prevent the Damage that might happen by any neglect thereof, if the fire should come near those houses in our absence.
For, when the fire is once kindled, it dilates and spreads itself as well against, as with the wind; burning continually night and day, untill a shower of rain falls to quench it.
And this custom of firing the Country is the meanes to make it passable; and by that meanes the trees growe here and there as in our parks: and makes the Country very beautifull and commodious.
So the Indians of New England burned up the land they were in such harmony with because it made it easier to travel and hunt. They burned off nuisance vegetation simply for convenience. All the small animals that lived in that underbrush were denied their habitat so that more light would get into the woods to support larger game and the hunting of that game. They had very small numbers and still had a HUGE impact on their environment.
Columbus just followed the smoke. :haha:
...and found pit bar-b-que?
Of course. They would have to have a pit to throw all the charred animals of the underbrush into
And that, folks, is the meaning of life. We all end up as crispy critters one way or the other.
all these seperations.
next time you hear or say the words, nigger, kike, spick, muslim, cracker, dago, christian, amercian, jew, limey, camel jockey, faggot, coon, crack head, cock sucker, dyke, porch monkey, terrorist, junkie, etc etc, just substitute the word with human.
What, you mean we're not one big happy family? I'm shocked.
Not like a dog, who can walk into any kennel in the world without trouble.
Or horse, that can join any herd in the world, peacefully.
Or Lion, that can join any pride in the world, and be welcomed.
Or bee, that can just stop in any hive, while on vacation.
Or fish, that can hitch a ride with any school going his way.:rolleyes:
i'm pointing out that i'm not the only pointing at humanity.
i'm saying that you point at the faggots, niggers, jews, muslims etc, you are also pointing at humanity.
i've seen no valid arguments from any of you as to defend humanity, to be honest, i didn't expect anyone to find any, as none really exist, other than maybe that we are at an infant state.
who knows what potential we actually have.
one could hope that we are very far from it.
I don't think any of us have been especially trying to defend humanity. Most people just get through life as best they can. Its anybody's guess if we can evolve further or go extinct first. Look at the trilobite. It was around far longer than man has dreamed of being and then one day - blink! It was gone. I'm not very sanguine about our chances. Not really.
Defend the human race for not being some comic book utopian image, somebody thinks it should be? Nope. :headshake
Won't defend it for not developing gills, either.
Whip, what's "the point" of any species on this planet? Why is any other being's existence more important or meaningful than ours? Why do you have to push the button so all of the cats and bacteria can live in peace and harmony? Who's to say another species won't evolve and do all of the effed up stuff to the planet that we've been doing?
I appreciate pondering the what ifs, but heck, you're stuck here for now brother, so you might as well enjoy the ride.
We are very clever apes with very clever brains, opposable thumbs and the ability to conceive of different levels of social identity (that last is pretty much what distinguished us from neanderthals and the most likely reason we thrived and they did not). If any other creature had evolved with our particular skill-set, there is no reason I can think to suggest as to why they would have done any less damage.
Species die out because of the damage we've done. They also die out for a whole host of other reasons. Catastrophic events cripple the survival chances of some, even as they enable another to gain a surer footing. The only difference between an Earth on which humans exist and an Earth on which we have died out, is that there could be no human witness to the latter. The Earth will take time and recover from our technological onslaught. And in the grand sweeping scale of the universe, the damage we did would feature as a blip. Another blip along with all the rest of the blips.
To suggest that we somehow deserve to die off, or that the earth would be better off if we did, is like saying the earth would have been better off without the ice of the ice age. We're here, we are what we are. We may change and find a way to live beyond the wildest dreams of anyone here. Or we may devastate the Earth in ways that make our survival as a species impossible. It only matters in the short term.
I get the sense of frustration when species die out because we've been tramping about the ecosystem in our size nine boots. I get the sense of futility when survival can be so ugly, and come at such a price. But these are temporary and human-centric concerns in and of themselves. You seem to be reaching for a big answer. But the further out you go the less relevant that answer is.
What, you mean we're not one big happy family? I'm shocked.
Defend the human race for not being some comic book utopian image, somebody thinks it should be? Nope. :headshake
Won't defend it for not developing gills, either.
heck, you're stuck here for now brother, so you might as well enjoy the ride.
Came here to say this.
This thread and section has stayed stagnant for so long I went and found a poem about humanity. I think this poet is great. He has such a grasp of the heaven beside us and hell within. [SIZE=1](part song line from AIC.)
[SIZE=3]2 Centimeters of Brain
As much as it could stupendously perceive; it had the
power to brutally devastate,
As much as it could magnanimously harbor; it had the
power to corrupt the most sagacious of truth,
As much as it could devotionally dedicate; it had the
power to conceive the most unprecedentedly lecherous
existing on this planet,
As much as it could intriguingly fantasize; it had the
power to parasitically drain out every iota of
glorious memory,
As much as it could magically evolve; it had the power
to swipe traces of blissful civilization; in
lightening fractions of seconds,
As much as it could fantastically tantalize; it had
the power to disastrously famish the most invincible;
for centuries immemorial,
As much as it could unfathomably grasp; it had the
power to diabolically relinquish; within a single wink
of an eye,
As much as it could reside in perpetual realms of
solitude; it had the power to fulminate more
treacherously than infinite volcano’s trapped beneath
the earth,
As much as it could disseminate the fragrance of
philanthropic mankind; it had the power to
diabolically crush the immaculately impeccable in the
swirl of its menacing manipulation,
As much as it could majestically accomplish; it had
the power to rampantly deteriorate well beneath the
rudiments of its roots,
As much as it could formidably heal; it had the power
to gruesomely exacerbate the tiniest of wounds; beyond
the corridors of infinite infinity,
As much as it could blossom into an island of
enchanting paradise; it had the power to insidiously
melt; transcending over boundaries of the most
obsolete oblivion,
As much as it could divinely meditate; it had the
power to indefatigably swim in torrential sea deluged
with preposterously ominous sharks,
As much as it could overwhelmingly pacify; it had the
power to trigger malicious fireballs of
discrimination; in religions bonding as united on this
earth,
As much as it could bask in the grandiloquent
splendor; it had the power to recede immortally into
its grave; even though it was animatedly alive,
As much as it could aristocratically relax; it had the
power to tumultuously inundate benevolent goodness;
with insane mad,
As much as it could ravishingly romance; it had the
power to sow the seeds of despairing betrayal; in
every heart it met,
As much as it could unbelievably dream; it had the
power to drown in cloudbursts of cacophonic
manipulation,
As much as it could unsurpassably exist; it had the
power to vanish like pathetic devil; before even the
winds could transgress in azure sky,
And as much as I called it my mind; believe me it had
the ubiquitous power to be anybody’s 2 centimeters of
brain; entrenched well within the skull and shivering
inside….
by nikhil parekh.
[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]
[youtube]MkbvJFEQgJU[/youtube]
Interesting video. I'm not unfamiliar with the ideas.
What are we humans suppose to do with those ideas though? What practical application is there for them?
I don't know if we can evolve into anything kinder. I just think we have to work toward making things better.
There is no way for people to acknowledge a perceived truth as a group and do anything useful unless it is to join a proactive group such as humanitarian aid and wildlife conservation groups.
Otherwise it's just an intellectual safari that leads people right back to where they started.
....because once a perceived truth is recognized by more than five people in close contact with each other, and they do not find a practical helpful application for it, they become something like a religion, group,cult, following or whatever.
People will make up rules and enforce ways of thinking. It either becomes restrictive and oppressive or crude and freely indulgent.
People for the most part are group minded and they will start acting and thinking within the constructs they have put forth and they lose the very thing they sought to find.
Well maybe monks and Buddhists can but still they devote 100 % of their life to overcoming inertia and as far as I know they aren't producing any baby Buddhas. (baby Buddhas? lol)
We can't evolve as species just by acknowledging a perceived truth. We can perceive it and appreciate it but we don't have the tools to be internally conscious of it for more than a few seconds.At least I don't.
I think some humans probably should have been drowned at birth.
I think the video mentioned spontaneous drownings at the hands of other humans too.;)
Humanity i love you
Humanity i love you
because you would rather black the boots of
success than enquire whose soul dangles from his
watch-chain which would be embarrassing for both
parties and because you
unflinchingly applaud all
songs containing the words country home and
mother when sung at the old howard
Humanity i love you because
when you're hard up you pawn your
intelligence to buy a drink and when
you're flush pride keeps
you from the pawn shops and
because you are continually committing
nuisances but more
especially in your own house
Humanity i love you because you
are perpetually putting the secret of
life in your pants and forgetting
it's there and sitting down on it
and because you are
forever making poems in the lap
of death Humanity
i hate you
ee cummings
Humanity i love you
Humanity i love you
because you would rather black the boots of
success than enquire whose soul dangles from his
watch-chain which would be embarrassing for both
parties and because you
unflinchingly applaud all
songs containing the words country home and
mother when sung at the old howard
Humanity i love you because
when you're hard up you pawn your
intelligence to buy a drink and when
you're flush pride keeps
you from the pawn shops and
because you are continually committing
nuisances but more
especially in your own house
Humanity i love you because you
are perpetually putting the secret of
life in your pants and forgetting
it's there and sitting down on it
and because you are
forever making poems in the lap
of death Humanity
i hate you
ee cummings
[Chris] That was awesome! [/Farley]
I could have posted 'My Father Moved Through The Dooms of Love'
There aren't many enlightening humanity themed poems out there.
[SIZE=1][COLOR=Black]challenge[/COLOR][/SIZE]
Tell me not, in mournful numbers,
Life is but an empty dream! —
For the soul is dead that slumbers,
And things are not what they seem.
Life is real! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.
Not enjoyment, and not sorrow,
Is our destined end or way;
But to act, that each to-morrow
Find us farther than to-day.
Art is long, and Time is fleeting,
And our hearts, though stout and brave,
Still, like muffled drums, are beating
Funeral marches to the grave.
In the world's broad field of battle,
In the bivouac of Life,
Be not like dumb, driven cattle!
Be a hero in the strife!
Trust no Future, howe'er pleasant!
Let the dead Past bury its dead!
Act, — act in the living Present!
Heart within, and God o'erhead!
Lives of great men all remind us
We can make our lives sublime,
And, departing, leave behind us
Footprints on the sands of time;
Footprints, that perhaps another,
Sailing o'er life's solemn main,
A forlorn and shipwrecked brother,
Seeing, shall take heart again.
Let us, then, be up and doing,
With a heart for any fate;
Still achieving, still pursuing,
Learn to labor and to wait.
-Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
Very nice poem joe.
[SIZE=1]my favorite part[/SIZE]
Life is real! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.
humans...mostly I choose not to deal with them. more lately than usual.
[YOUTUBE]tL29MQMRUaw[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]BgxufEIu0GQ[/YOUTUBE]