Apostrophe Abuse/neglect
So..... my kid's teacher "corrected" a poster I wrote....
I have two questions:
1) Which is correct:
a) Intra-Mural Sports' Teams
b) Intra-Mural Sports Teams
c) Intra-Mural Sport's Teams
It's a title referring to several school teams who play a sport against teams from other schools. The teams are the people doing the fundraising the poster is about, so this appears in the "name" section of the headings.
2) Where is that poster people always link to here about how to use an apostrophe, stupid..... (not the Bob the Angry Flower one -the other one)
I'll take (b) -- but I'm probably wrong. Sigh.
my kids picked B too (except Thor -he's asleep)
as far as I can tell without context, your title merely includes sports and teams as plural nouns; no apostrophe required.
B
context:
The Hippie School
Intra-Mural Sport's' Teams
We are raising money for uniforms...blah blah bla'.....
as far as I can tell without context, your title merely includes sports and teams as plural nouns; no apostrophe required.
B
i not entirely sure that sports is not an adjective in this context?
With no prior context, "B" is the correct option.
Don't let this so-called "teacher" direct you to any conclusion, other than the above.
Makes you fear for the child's education, eh?
"A" is never correct.
"C," however, could be, depending on circumstance, and diction.
(Do they all play the same sport, or, multiple sports?)
ENOUGH ALREADY! :lol:
I wrote (B)
he corrected to (A)
I may have to kill him.... but he hasn't yet sent Thor to the principal so perhaps i can show leniency.
(multiple sports)
(a) and if it isn't correct, it should be. Pbbbllllt!
"A" is never correct.
A could be correct (but isn't). It is a plural possesive - there are several sports and these teams "belong" to them.
C is singular possesive. There is one sport and these teams belong to it.
B is my pick - "sports teams" is a phrasal noun, and doesn't need an apostrophe.
Hang on a tick, I'm in a room full of English teachers, I'll ask one.
ENOUGH ALREADY! :lol:
I wrote (B)
he corrected to (A)
I may have to kill him.... but he hasn't yet sent Thor to the principal so perhaps i can show leniency.
(multiple sports)
He corrected it, to the only incorrect answer?
:headshake
English is such a butchered language, these days. I fear for it; My beloved, mother-tongue, warped beyond plausible recognition.
terrific (sarcasm). The teacher doesn't understand grammar. I would ask him to show you his authority for the apostrophe.
I am doing... but I wanted a little back-up before I went gung-ho.....
zen, I agree a is possible, but Sports has to be a noun in that sense and i'm not sure it is here.
Think about it, I could also say... The "Academic Teams" when talking about the Spelling Bee and math games people.... would we add an " 's " to Acedemic there?
The teachers confirm, no apostrophe is needed. Also, the M in mural should be lower case because it is in the middle of a hyphenated word, not at the beginning of a word.
Also my pronounciation of "adjective" is a bit odd, apparently.
2) Where is that poster people always link to here about how to use an apostrophe, stupid.
Moi? I'm in Adelaide.
my kids picked B too (except Thor -he's asleep)
...and so picked ZZzzzzzzz.
It's totally an adjective.
or should we be saying Academics in the first place?
or should we change Sports to Sporting.......
Perhaps I need to say Sport not Sports like Americans say Math not Maths?
pehaps it needs to be IM Sport Teams?
The teachers confirm, no apostrophe is needed. Also, the M in mural should be lower case because it is in the middle of a hyphenated word, not at the beginning of a word..
yeah, it should be -but that's definitely a "When In Rome" thing
no, I think "sports teams" is either a compond noun or a noun phrase. The proper possessive would be sports teams' something. My Chicago Manual of style says this:
"in compound nouns and noun phrases the final element usually takes the possessive form. [such as:]
student assistants' time cards." Except there's no possessive here, right?
for an opposite reaction (thereby making me wrong) it says:
"the line between a possessive or genitive form and a noun used attributively--as an adjective--is sometimes fuzzy, especially in the plural. . . . Chicago dispenses with the apostrophe only in proper nounts or where there is clearly no possesive meaning:
the women's team (clearly possessive)
a consumer's group
It's a pretty hard grammatical problem, but I really don't think there's any possessive there, so I still think no apostrophe
The teams are not a possession of sports.:headshake
yeah, it should be -but that's definitely a "When In Rome" thing
When in Rome, teach the ignorant yokels to speak English properly.
...
a) Intra-Mural Sports' Teams
b) Intra-Mural Sports Teams
c) Intra-Mural Sport's Teams
It's a title referring to several school teams who play a sport against teams from other schools. The teams are the people doing the fundraising the poster is about, ...
They are teams fundraising for sports. No possessive.
BTW, if they are playing against other schools, they are interscholastic, not intramural.;)
BTW, if they are playing against other schools, they are interscholastic, not intramural.;)
Oh just don't get me started. I really do try not to cause trouble because I manage enough without trying....
When in Rome, teach the ignorant yokels to speak English properly.
Speak loudly and slowly while pointing
4. Skitt’s Law
Expressed as "any post correcting an error in another post will contain at least one error itself" or "the likelihood of an error in a post is directly proportional to the embarrassment it will cause the poster."
I say b) with a variation:
b) Intra-Mural Sport Teams
dubiously: who says "sport teams"? Maybe if you are only talking about a single sport, but it would then be more common to say baseball teams, or soccer teams.
Teams is a dumb word.
Make it Intramural Athletics.
How about:
School Bake Sale
I'm sure the teacher intended "Intra-Mural Sports' Teams" to mean "the teams of (or belonging to) the intra-mural sports entity."
That only makes sense if there is an "entity" to which the teams belong.
Pardon me whilst I stab myself in the eyeballs with a fork.
Teams is a dumb word.
Make it Intramural Athletics.
The intended audience is somewhat dumber than our 5th-graders ;)
although...... I do like that better, especially since I changed the wording a little so that won't be as repetitive as it would have been..... thanks :)
B is right but I like fobbles idea of side stepping the whole issue.
I'm not too smart but I have made a many a banner.
I would err on the part of discretion and leave the apostrophe off.
I would go with fobble[SIZE="7"]'[/SIZE]s idea too.
:3eye:
:3eye: [COLOR="Red"][FONT="Verdana"][SIZE="4"]HAGGIS[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] :3eye:
I would go with fobble[SIZE=7]'[/SIZE]s idea too.
:3eye:
No capital F? ugg yer slipping.
[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR]
They don't look like they'd slip to me, but might be quite clumsy for side-stepping. ugg indeed :lol:
I did go with fobble ( :eek: :lol:) subject to teacher's "approval" -he admitted he assumed it was possessive.....
I removed the hyphen too, I'll probably get fired for that one ;)
Yeah, they'll take back your whole salary from the last year...
people do not understand possessives, I've come to understand. a terrible failing of our grammar instruction, although it doesn't seem that hard a concept to me . . .
I recently saw ugg boots with dunlop volley soles.
(and steel-cap volleys ... :eyebrow: they're originally tennis shoes!)
my kids picked B too (except Thor -he's asleep)
It's a title referring to several school teams who play a sport against teams from other schools. The teams are the people doing the fundraising the poster is about, so this appears in the "name" section of the headings.
Monster I found a rule for possessives.
Intra _ Mural Sports Teams is descriptive so there is no apostrophe. You were right.
I know you have changed your banner but I thought this an interesting rule page anyway.
[SIZE=3]
Descriptive Phrases (weird!)
One of the strangest rules in the AP stylebook insists that certain things are not possessives (even though they look like possessives) but are "descriptive."
As such, they do not deserve apostrophes.
Such as it is, here's the logic behind the rule:
[/SIZE]
[LIST]
[*][SIZE=3]
students handbook[/SIZE]
[LIST]
[*][SIZE=3]
It's a handbook for students, not a handbook belonging to students[/SIZE]
[/LIST]
[/LIST]
[LIST]
[*][SIZE=3]
teachers college, writers guide[/SIZE]
[LIST]
[*][SIZE=3]
The same twisted logic applies[/SIZE]
[/LIST]
[/LIST]
[SIZE=3]
Here are other examples from the stylebook. Notice the absence of apostrophes:
[/SIZE]
[LIST]
[*][SIZE=3]
citizens band radio[/SIZE]
[*][SIZE=3]
a Cincinnati Reds infielder[/SIZE]
[/LIST]
http://www.newsroom101.com/NR_exercises/grammar/noun_lesson.htmlWhich also makes it a drivers license and a doctors appointment.
thanks sky. it occurred to me this morning that I have a friend who's an editor and could've answered straight away, but it is nice to have an overwhelming concensus.
newspaper rules do not count
I'm in school again! I was told by my professor to "watch my use of the semi-colon"; in certain cases.
I have abused my semi-colon privileges already: now it's time to beat the heck out of the colon. :)
thanks sky. it occurred to me this morning that I have a friend who's an editor and could've answered straight away, but it is nice to have an overwhelming concensus.
:eyebrow:
I would go with fobble[SIZE="7"]'[/SIZE]s idea too.
:3eye:
Shouldn't that be, I would go with [SIZE="3"]'[/SIZE]fobble[SIZE="7"]'[/SIZE]s idea too?
Intra-Mural Jocks ;)
:lol:
Cellar, Cellar, on the wall*,
who is the analest of them all?
* I acknowledge that this does not make sense. It is a poetic and rhetorical device.
ok - Lemme axe this - so's what's the write friggin' answer?
:Cellar, Cellar, on the wall*,
who is the analest of them all?
You misspelled "analyst".
I'm in love.
With the whole damn (damned?) lot of you.
Like, OMG!
There's no place like home and all that.
Snaps!
newspaper rules do not count
Sure they do. A headline isn't so much different than a banner.
You misspelled "analyst".
I think he did it on purpose as did classic purposefully misspelled 'right'.
ok - Lemme axe this - so's what's the write friggin' answer?
figgin doesn't count
and neither do user names. Those are sky skidies rules.
Newspaper rules are made for typeprinting conventions and to conserve space in narrow columns, and I don't consider them applicable to other forms of writing.
I also reject and resent the idea that being interested in or careful with grammar automatically makes you nerdy, nazi, or anal. In my opinion, it makes for a better communicator, and isn't clear communication essential? It's "let's make fun of the smart kids."
yes, I am Hermione Granger. I have the hair to prove it!
:lol:
Cellar, Cellar, on the wall*,
who is the analest of them all?
* I acknowledge that this does not make sense. It is a poetic and rhetorical device.
You misspelled "analyst".
Hahahahaha...I'm now embarrassed that "analyst" is in my job title.
You wascal!
Now I'm really confused. Can I just go by what spell check tells me? :confused:
Newspaper rules are made for typeprinting conventions and to conserve space in narrow columns, and I don't consider them applicable to other forms of writing.
I also reject and resent the idea that being interested in or careful with grammar automatically makes you nerdy, nazi, or anal. In my opinion, it makes for a better communicator, and isn't clear communication essential? It's "let's make fun of the smart kids."
yes, I am Hermione Granger. I have the hair to prove it!
I don't think anyone is poking fun, in a bad way, at anyone in particular. I think people are just having fun just now. It's ok cloud.
Everyone knows good grammar is important.
Now I'm really confused. Can I just go by what spell check tells me? :confused:
Spellcheck says your name should be Samoan. That answer your question? :haha:
yes, I am Hermione Granger. I have the hair to prove it!
Do you mean Hermione Gingold? :p
Now I'm really confused. Can I just go by what spell check tells me? :confused:
no you cant it is good that you want to be accurete...acurate...um, correct tho.
I didn't think Hermione Gingold was known for her erudition, but I'll take your word for it, Bruce. Seeing has how she was a bit before my time.
:p
Hahahahaha...I'm now embarrassed that "analyst" is in my job title.
You wascal!
And here I thought he meant analest, as in "most anal (retentive)".
psst...he did. Zen's not stupid, in case no one noticed. Undertoad just took it and ran with it...
Undertoad just took it and ran with it...
Is he gonna give it back?
Now I'm really confused. Can I just go by what spell check tells me? :confused:
Putt knot yore trussed on spill chuckers!
It's "let's make fun of the smart kids."
Well shit, why didn't you say so sooner? We'd have been able to bypass a whole bunch of discussion.
COME ON EVERYBODY!!!! PILE ON THE BASTARDS!!!!!!
You want you computer fixed or not, Jock-boy? [/toughnerd]
gerrof you lummoxes! (wiggles) I can't breathe!
It's "let's make fun of the smart kids."
Well shit, why didn't you say so sooner? We'd have been able to bypass a whole bunch of discussion.
COME ON EVERYBODY!!!! PILE ON THE BASTARDS!!!!!!
Where are they? How long will it take to get there? Are we going to carpool?
You know, I read some of this stuff and question every punctuational decision I make. I think there are people who sit around and decide to throw another wrench into the works. Or maybe I've just forgotten more than I care to admit.
Seriously, someone should simplify this English language crap. :bolt:
:lol:
Will there be snacks?
Baked [strike]hobos[/strike] hobo's
I just read;
Halloween is correctly spelled as Hallowe’en.
:eek:
Now I'm really confused. Can I just go by what spell check tells me? :confused:
Yes! You can! Just as long as- "ass" and "as" are spelled correctly, no problem!:D
I just read; "Halloween is correctly spelled as Hallowe’en.
" :eek:
It must be the devil stealin" an" missplacin" all them apostrophe"s and fixin" them to hi"s night of worship! It's an apostrophe catastrophe! Summon the pope! Hallowe''''''en must be banned
It's All Hallows Evening - Hallow E'en
Folks in the olden days liked apostrophes even more than we do now.
Here's a local body art place I blogged about: Do's & Tattoos. I'm not exactly sure what the rule here would be. Technically, to indicate the omitted letters, it would be 'Dos. But I think there's a rule that says if the result is unreadable, you can put an apostrophe in the plural to make it read better. Without the apostrophe, people 'round here would read it as "dos"; i.e., the number two. So, it would be . . .
'Do's.
Here's a link to the blog post, if you're interested (but no biggie):
http://piercedconsumer.com/2009/11/03/dos-tattoos/I'm a professional writer. I know all about apostrophe abuse.
It hurts me. Personally. And I'm not timid about letting those around me know of my pain.
My mother swears she will never write anything to me again. :D
My mother can write to me without tadpole trouble. So can Dad.
My younger brothers' elementary-school English instruction was all fucked up; they never got any phonics and aren't the spellers or the tadpolers I am.
Also my pronounciation of "adjective" is a bit odd, apparently.
You
didn't stress the first syllable?
And yeah, B.
Sports is an adjective modifying
teams. None of the teams are in the possession of a genetic variant.
ha! I got some nasty comments about my blog post. But no one but me seems to care about the blatant apostrophe abuse! Sad, sad state of affairs.
Now you know who the nits are.
You didn't stress the first syllable?
And yeah, B. Sports is an adjective modifying teams. None of the teams are in the possession of a genetic variant.
Oh, come on! How about the Mutant Denver Bronco's from HELL?
And another:
On to other language abuse. Ed Byrne critiques Alanis Morisette's use of the word "ironic".
[YOUTUBE]nT1TVSTkAXg[/YOUTUBE]