Priorities

xoxoxoBruce • Aug 27, 2009 3:13 am
Priorities are important in education.
DanaC • Aug 27, 2009 4:34 am
Wow. Just Wow. That's incredible.
ZenGum • Aug 27, 2009 7:05 am
25 years of full-time education ... for this????
Shawnee123 • Aug 27, 2009 8:38 am
Yeah, why DO female tenured and un-tenured professors earn less than their male counterparts? :cool:
classicman • Aug 27, 2009 9:19 am
Thats BS, Shaw - there ought to be a salary set and thats what it is male, female, black, white, red, green, blue, R, D, I, L ... whatever.
Cloud • Aug 27, 2009 9:22 am
"ought to be" -- but not yet. Don't be complacent--women are still struggling for their rights in this country. We're close, but not yet equal.

Athletics fund education, keeping the alma mater fresh in the minds of alums with money. Without the coaches' salary, there would be no money to pay for the teachers and professors' salaries. Or less money.
Shawnee123 • Aug 27, 2009 9:29 am
Cloud;590447 wrote:
"ought to be" -- but not yet. Don't be complacent--women are still struggling for their rights in this country. We're close, but not yet equal.

Athletics fund education, keeping the alma mater fresh in the minds of alums with money. Without the coaches' salary, there would be no money to pay for the teachers and professors' salaries. Or less money.


Good point about women's rights. We've come a long way, baby, but we have far to go.

Yeah, the sports programs bring in an awful lot of money, no matter how you look at.
monster • Aug 27, 2009 9:37 am
Don't imagine for a minute that green bar reflects the salaries of the women's football coaches, either.....
limey • Aug 27, 2009 11:04 am
monster;590451 wrote:
Don't imagine for a minute that green bar reflects the salaries of the women's football coaches, either.....


... or the swim coaches :D
xoxoxoBruce • Aug 27, 2009 11:04 am
Shawnee123;590442 wrote:
Yeah, why DO female tenured and un-tenured professors earn less than their male counterparts? :cool:
'Cause ya already got most of the money, and all the pussy. :lol2:
monster • Aug 27, 2009 11:52 am
limey;590497 wrote:
... or the swim coaches :D


The U of Michigan swim coach is paid quite well I think
monster • Aug 27, 2009 12:01 pm
hm I lied. the swim coach gets 90K, the football coach 300K. And I just found out what all my friends who work for the UofM earn too :eek:
Cloud • Aug 27, 2009 12:12 pm
You don't think $90,000 a year is well-paid?

for something that isn't football? (cough)
xoxoxoBruce • Aug 27, 2009 12:21 pm
Swimming doesn't bring in the money football does,

Women are making progress in Italy.
monster • Aug 27, 2009 12:24 pm
Cloud;590514 wrote:
You don't think $90,000 a year is well-paid?

for something that isn't football? (cough)


Well, it's not more than the professors make. I don't think $90K is huge given the job requirements and expectations. I'm very surprised by the football coach's salary. I think there must be other income in that job.
DanaC • Aug 28, 2009 7:14 am
They reckon there's generally a 17.5% - 20% differential between male and female wages in the UK (in comparable jobs).

If I make it to my dream job (University tenured history professor) I'll earn about £40k - £60k per annum. I'd consider that an excellent wage.
xoxoxoBruce • Aug 28, 2009 11:39 am
monster;590521 wrote:
Well, it's not more than the professors make. I don't think $90K is huge given the job requirements and expectations. I'm very surprised by the football coach's salary. I think there must be other income in that job.
Don't forget the chart is for "Doctoral-Granting Universities", which means the biggies. Most of those have football programs that are in conferences that draw huge crowds, TV revenues, and support from wealthy alumni, that translates into millions of dollars for those schools.
They pay big bucks for coaches that will(might) win, bringing them bowl games and more $upport.
monster • Aug 28, 2009 2:16 pm
The salaries i fouind were for the University of Michigan. You know, Big 10, second largest statium, largest attendance..... granted they've been on the crappy side recently, but I'd still expect their coach to be taking home more than that.
xoxoxoBruce • Aug 29, 2009 2:06 am
You're talking about the swimming coach, yes? Only football brings in the big bucks, so I think you'll find football coaches at all the biggies far outstrip any other coaches.
monster • Aug 29, 2009 11:59 am
the 300K is the football coach
xoxoxoBruce • Aug 29, 2009 6:13 pm
Oh, ok, I missed that. :o

How does Paterno compare to other coaches? He's actually below the average college football coach salary of $950,000. That's not counting benefits, subsidized housing, incentives or any other perks, according to USAToday.com. In fact, 42 of the 119 Division I-A coaches are earning $1 million or more; Oklahoma coach Bob Stoops earns $3 million annually.

Coaches Jim Tresse (Ohio State) and Mack Brown (Texas) are among nine coaches earning more than $2 million. According to the New York Times, some of the highest paid college football coaches include Alabama's Nick Saban with an eight-year deal worth almost $32 million and Texas A&M coach Dennis Franchione with a $2.09 million annual salary. Today, college football means big bucks, for some
.


Back in 1958 the University of Alabama lured Bear Bryant with a promise of $18,000 a year, or the rough equivalent of $130,000 today; last year the university handed Nick Saban an eight-year deal worth roughly $32 million. Several dozen college football coaches now earn more than $1 million a year — and that’s before the books, speeches, endorsement deals and who knows what else. Earlier this season the head coach at Texas A&M, Dennis Franchione, was caught topping up his $2.09 million salary by selling to Aggie alums, for $1,200 a pop, his private football-gossip newsletter.


Sounds like becoming a coach might be better than becoming a pro player, considering the length of time you can reasonably expect to do it.
smoothmoniker • Aug 29, 2009 9:19 pm
classicman;590446 wrote:
Thats BS, Shaw - there ought to be a salary set and thats what it is male, female, black, white, red, green, blue, R, D, I, L ... whatever.


That's how it works in every university I've ever seen. You have a rank and a step. Every year you move up a step, and you go before a review committee to move up in rank. It doesn't matter who you are, what color, what sex, etc. The salaries are set.

The only exception to this are endowed professorships, where the salary is paid by an outside organizations, or a grant, or is in some other way separate from the general budget. Those are flexible, and can be quite high (the endowed violin professor at USC makes $1m per year, and teaches only 3 students).

My guess, and I don't have any data to back this up, is that there are significantly more endowed positions in fields that generally interest men more than women. The sciences have a very high percentage of endowed positions (funded by industry grants, private / academic partnerships, etc.), and those fields attract more men than women.

It's simplistic to simply look at the final numbers and cry "sexism!" I can tell you from experience that academia bends over backwards avoid any instance or implication of sexism or racism. The committees that control advancement are, if anything, MORE likely to advance a female candidate than a male candidate, given the same level of academic output.
Shawnee123 • Aug 29, 2009 9:28 pm
Boy, I was just trying to be funny and act like I didn't notice the big football coach bar. :rolleyes:
Clodfobble • Aug 29, 2009 9:29 pm
I think it's been well established that we don't cotton to humor none 'round here.
Shawnee123 • Aug 29, 2009 9:30 pm
:lol:

Er, I mean :mad:
monster • Aug 29, 2009 9:51 pm
OK, taking a different approach.....

hey! U of Mich only pays their football coach 25% of the average and their other "academic" staff 150% of the average..... but our stadium is still bigger than yours! :lol: ...and Michael Phelps was ours :p
ZenGum • Aug 29, 2009 10:52 pm
I know of a *FEW* professors in the US$250,000+ range.

Very, very few. Generally, some cashed-up US (often, but not always, Ivy League) college wants to raise its profile in some particular area, and decides to poach an entire research program en bloc from somewhere else.
Back in the early '90s, one US college (I think it might have been Bowling Green) offered four Profs. from the Australian National Uni Philosophy program about $250,000 each provided they all came as a group. (They stayed, mostly for family reasons.)

More recently, the Australian government has brought in "Federation Fellowships" which offer salaries around $250,000 and are used for counter-poaching.

Most tenured academics are on less then $100,000; and at the bottom of the pile there are many non-tenured, contract, or even causal workers on mediocre salaries with no job security. Hours depend on enrollments, and these vary year by year.
Undertoad • Aug 29, 2009 11:09 pm
...offered four Profs. from the Australian National Uni Philosophy program about $250,000 each provided they all came as a group...
Four Aussie Philosophy profs! What a coincidence. Were they all named Bruce?

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DanaC • Aug 30, 2009 8:29 am
Hahahahah. very good bruce.
SteveDallas • Aug 30, 2009 11:30 am
The salaries of college & university professors in the US are so variable, it's almost meaningless to talk about nationwide averages. (Harvard Business School professors make more than Central Middle State University professors? Duh.)


Having said that, some of you may find this breakdown by institution interesting. However, it generally does not include adjunct instructors--those who are hired on a contract-per-course basis. This would bring the averages down significantly. It also doesn't account for pay differences between different disciplines.
zaithyn091 • Sep 1, 2009 2:31 am
Wow, I was shocked from that! soon, I want to be a part of them.

________________
DanaC • Sep 1, 2009 8:21 pm
It seems a touch strange to me that in a university the football coach takes the big money. I realise it's a cultural thing...but it always did strike me as very strange. I don't get why football is so important in an academic institution. I understand why management might end up getting paid more than, say a leading academic...just...but a football coach? Nothing against football coaches, but wtf?
TheMercenary • Sep 1, 2009 8:30 pm
xoxoxoBruce;591028 wrote:
You're talking about the swimming coach, yes? Only football brings in the big bucks, so I think you'll find football coaches at all the biggies far outstrip any other coaches.


Not to mention their other perks which looking at those numbers may or may not be included. Somehow I don't think the perks that Univ presidents get are included in the gross salaries either. Cars, car allowances, houses fully paid for, etc.
xoxoxoBruce • Sep 2, 2009 12:09 am
DanaC;591902 wrote:
It seems a touch strange to me that in a university the football coach takes the big money. I realise it's a cultural thing...but it always did strike me as very strange. I don't get why football is so important in an academic institution. I understand why management might end up getting paid more than, say a leading academic...just...but a football coach? Nothing against football coaches, but wtf?


xoxoxoBruce;590819 wrote:
Most of those have football programs that are in conferences that draw huge crowds, TV revenues, and support from wealthy alumni, that translates into millions of dollars for those schools.
They pay big bucks for coaches that will(might) win, bringing them bowl games and more $upport.

College football is big business here, Dana, probably as much, or more, money involved than the pros.
monster • Sep 2, 2009 12:27 am
it just doesn't happen in the UK. AT ALL. there used to be amateur football (soccer) and rugby) but it was phased out. NO-ONE is interested in University students and what they can do with their balls. except Loughborough (Luffbra). The ONLY UK Uni sport televised is the Oxford/Cambridge boat race. it's a different Universe.

(Dana -the Stadium of the University of Michigan would shame any in the premier league)
smoothmoniker • Sep 2, 2009 12:51 am
Merc, academia is pretty hefty in the perks department, at every level, not just at the top.

Standard perks include great health insurance, matching retirement contributions, free or subsidized housing, use of an on-campus faculty gym, free public transportation, travel reimbursement for research trips (i.e. family vacations), a 4-figure book stipend, and the biggie, free college tuition for immediate family members (at most colleges, that's transferable to other institutions as well - my kids can go for free at almost any school in the US).

Many things suck about the academic world. The job perks, however, do not.
ZenGum • Sep 2, 2009 1:00 am
And the chicks, Smoov, don't forget the chicks.

Seriously, though, outside US, only a few of those perks apply - generous superannuation, some research travel (the prof only, not the family) and if you want the gym, you pay for it. Books get counted toward pulication points which can mean promotion; we commies have socialised health and semi-socialised tertiary edumacation.
xoxoxoBruce • Sep 2, 2009 1:01 am
Here are the stadiums, and they fill them 6 or 8 times per season. Now that's just the top 17, of thousands of them. Add the TV viewing and there are millions upon millions of people watching college football.
glatt • Sep 2, 2009 9:59 am
smoothmoniker;591953 wrote:
and the biggie, free college tuition for immediate family members (at most colleges, that's transferable to other institutions as well - my kids can go for free at almost any school in the US).


My dad was a professor and it meant the difference between me going to the college of my choice and going to the local state school.
monster • Sep 2, 2009 10:14 am
xoxoxoBruce;591958 wrote:
Here are the stadiums. and they fill them 6 or 8 times per season. Now that's just the top 17, of thousands of them. Add the TV viewing and there are millions upon millions of people watching college football.


Your link opens a reply to topic page. Either I am insane or.....
Pie • Sep 2, 2009 10:43 am
monster;592020 wrote:
Either I am insane or.....

Why is this an either/or statement? :lol2:
monster • Sep 2, 2009 11:02 am
hah! now fixie linkie, I wanna see stadia
Shawnee123 • Sep 2, 2009 11:04 am
monster;592020 wrote:
Your link opens a reply to topic page. Either I am insane or.....


AND it logs me out!
xoxoxoBruce • Sep 2, 2009 11:09 am
:smack: fixed it, thanks.:o
monster • Sep 2, 2009 11:29 am
Michigan doesn't look like that any more! They're nearing the end of a HUGE building project -lots more boxes and stuff. HUGE. And yet they are still exempt from paying taxes to the city....... mutter mutter (I live maybe three miles from the stadium)
Shawnee123 • Sep 2, 2009 12:13 pm
mon, H from Z's said to tell you GO BUCKS!

Not really...

:)
Pie • Sep 2, 2009 12:39 pm
So, my folks both went to UMich (AA), my husband's family is all Ohio State. It makes for fun football-watching experiences. :eyebrow:
Shawnee123 • Sep 2, 2009 12:44 pm
My mom is a longtime Browns fan and my dad is a longtime Bengals fan: I feel your pain!
Clodfobble • Sep 2, 2009 2:01 pm
Neither of my parents likes sports. But they still don't get along! ;)
monster • Sep 13, 2009 11:32 pm
hey Dana (et al in UK and elsewhere) This is how big it is (and also why all British football fans are seen as hooligans.... )

Football fans were relatively well-behaved considering the nature of the game rivalry, police say
Posted: 9:51 a.m. Today
2 Comments. Comment Now

With an attendance of 110,278 at yesterday’s University of Michigan-Notre Dame game, just a relative few got into trouble or needed assistance, said Diane Ward, public information officer for University of Michigan police.

"We ejected more people than we arrested or cited, just because of the numbers of people we were dealing with," she said.


She reported:


Eleven people were arrested - seven for minor in possession, two for disorderly conduct, one on a warrant from another department and one for resisting and obstructing a police officer.


An additional 11 people were cited - eight for alcohol, two for urinating in public and one for illegal ticket sales.


Twenty-nine people were ejected from the stadium - 13 for violating stadium rules, 10 for disorderly conduct and six for alcohol in the stadium.


Emergency medical responders treated 67 people during the day. Eleven of those people were taken to the hospital, but none in serious condition.