Iranian thugs killing protestors
Beating women to a pulp. Throwing them off pedestrian bridges. Killing people with axes. Fuuuck
[youtube]mEtVRgZ3Szw[/youtube]
Snipers taking out protesters
[youtube]dD5Wrh9rt34[/youtube]
What can we do to help? They've got to pull these bastards down.
Unfortunately we can do nothing. The US public would never support any intervention after the years in Iraq and now Afganistan. Any intervention on our part will strengthen the hardliners positions.
I was thinking of more of a people to people thing... assistance keeping information flowing, ..server space? You're right about a Fed Gov intervention being fodder for the nuts. Bottom line it is their fight, I hope they have the depth of support they need.
Unfortunately we can do nothing. The US public would never support any intervention after the years in Iraq and now Afganistan. Any intervention on our part will strengthen the hardliners positions.
Yup, plus, it would throw Iran back into extreme conservative Islam mode. Right now there is a major split between the urban and rural areas of Iran and the last thing the US wants to do is to unite them. The US probably accomplished what it wanted from this, get the Iranian people to believe they have the power to overthrow the government and scare the clerics. This was accomplished.
The most intervention I can see is a bombing of nuclear sites but Israel will most likely take care of that if anything is going to happen.
The Iranians need to take care of this themselves. They can pull it off if they make up their mind to. At this point, I don't think their conviction is strong enough to try it so I suspect things will be back to status quo in a couple weeks.
I hate the religious nutcase bastards.
But I don't think the protestors have either the nerve, the organisation, the weapons, or the numbers, to make a successful revolution.
And what I guess will happen is that the genie will be stomped back into the bottle, then over the next year or two the clerics and their thugs will be extra ruthless in dealing with any reformers, progressives, etc.
The failure of this revolution will probably set the cause of revolution back. The only positive I take from this is that many, many Iranian people ahve seen that the electionw as a fraud, have seen that their government is a tyranny clingin to power by violence, and discontent will fester and spread. There WILL be another round, but it's going to be a while coming.
Unless we point out to the Iranians that when a country allows an election to be stolen by a religious whacko with a beligerent foreign policy, that country does not prosper in the long term. If only we had an example....
Well stated Zen. I agree completely.
Unless we point out to the Iranians that when a country allows an election to be stolen by a religious whacko with a beligerent foreign policy, that country does not prosper in the long term. If only we had an example....
Haggis squared.
Pics from a link from Bruce's post on the volcano.
Pics from the protests in Iran:
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/06/a_troubled_week_in_iran.htmlGreat photos, although I'm pretty sure the 5th one is an O.A.R. concert in upstate NY.
*snip*
So I said Johnny whatcha doing tonight?
He looked at me with a face full of fright
And I said, how bout a revolution?
And he said right.
I say of, you say a
I say revolution, and you say jah
I say of, you say a
I say revolution, and you say jah jah jah
Jahova!
I have an interesting connection to some of this stuff. My aunt by marriage is native Iranian, and has family still living there now (they are, of course, pretty freaking liberal considering their daughter moved to the States to be a college professor, so you can imagine which side of the conflict they're on.) She was hosting a large amount of information, photos, etc. on her Facebook page from a variety of personal connections, but then a few days ago she took down large parts of it. All she would say is that "it occurred to her" that there was some stuff that "could cause problems." She wouldn't elaborate, but I suspect she's genuinely afraid for, or even received direct threats to, her relatives. This is not a woman who typically backs down from freaking anything. This more than anything has convinced me that things are very, very bad over there right now.
I hate the religious nutcase bastards.
Unless we point out to the Iranians that when a country allows an election to be stolen by a religious whacko with a beligerent foreign policy, that country does not prosper in the long term. If only we had an example....
The example we have is the present Iranian government, of course. This is also the example they will be least responsive to, being too close to the problem.
P.S.: Zen, do not imagine for one second I wasn't getting what you were hinting at. I just discount it as complete BS. W could hardly be described as astoundingly religious, but more nearly a standard-issue American Episcopalian. It's the sort and style of religion you've at least heard of. -- UG
Haggis squared.
The haggis-and-oatmeal set bid pretty fair to take over the British Crown in 1745. The hard way.
coughtongueincheekcough
and, err, did you get the memo about "haggis" being the replacement for "lol"?
You old geezer you ;)
As a matter of fact, shonny, I did. Recently, 'tis true. [/old-guy voice]
It'sh really hard to do old guy voische with tongue in cheek...
I hate the religious nutcase bastards.
But I don't think the protestors have either the nerve, the organisation, the weapons, or the numbers, to make a successful revolution.
And what I guess will happen is that the genie will be stomped back into the bottle, then over the next year or two the clerics and their thugs will be extra ruthless in dealing with any reformers, progressives, etc.
The failure of this revolution will probably set the cause of revolution back. The only positive I take from this is that many, many Iranian people ahve seen that the electionw as a fraud, have seen that their government is a tyranny clingin to power by violence, and discontent will fester and spread. There WILL be another round, but it's going to be a while coming.
Unless we point out to the Iranians that when a country allows an election to be stolen by a religious whacko with a beligerent foreign policy, that country does not prosper in the long term. If only we had an example....
I have more faith in the Iranian people than that. OTOH, (I believe it was) Reza Aslan said the other day that Iran was at a turning point, and it would either end up like N. Korea, or China. Every person of Iranian descent that I have seen speak about this on TV has agreed the Iran of yesterday is no more. It will never be the same. That could be very good, or very bad.
I have more faith in the Iranian people than that. OTOH, (I believe it was) Reza Aslan said the other day that Iran was at a turning point, and it would either end up like N. Korea, or China. Every person of Iranian descent that I have seen speak about this on TV has agreed the Iran of yesterday is no more. It will never be the same. That could be very good, or very bad.
I am uncomfortable comparing Iran to any other past country because it is so different from any other country. There are two polarized forces tearing Iran apart at the moment, liberalizing youth urban population and militarized government, each of which can swing Iran in any different direction. Though unfortunately, the military and Revolutionary Guard are both conservative and for limitation so an overthrow of the current government is not a realistic option at the moment.
TV news said: a bunch of dissident clerics have dissed the election results and panned the supreme council for being biased in favour of Ahmedinejad.
I am uncomfortable comparing Iran to any other past country because it is so different from any other country. There are two polarized forces tearing Iran apart at the moment, liberalizing youth urban population and militarized government, each of which can swing Iran in any different direction. Though unfortunately, the military and Revolutionary Guard are both conservative and for limitation so an overthrow of the current government is not a realistic option at the moment.
What was meant by that statement, is Iran could become even more reclusive and militarized (i.e. N. Korea) or it could become more open, democratic and capitalist (i.e. China).
Generalizing, those are the two forces pulling Iran apart at the moment. The mullahs and military want the militarized state and the urban population want a more liberal state.
In reality it is much more complicated (I don't fully understand it either) since there is a large liberal force within the mullahs and the general Iranian population is not pro-western plus a shitload of other reasons but that is a basic overview.
I agree. I was simply repeating something that an Iranian-American said. I don't think he meant it quite so literally either. And, the Iranian people have good cause not to trust us, or well, our government I should say. I think, in general, the Iranian people aren't so anti-American as they are anti-American government.
I agree. I was simply repeating something that an Iranian-American said. I don't think he meant it quite so literally either. And, the Iranian people have good cause not to trust us, or well, our government I should say. I think, in general, the Iranian people aren't so anti-American as they are anti-American government.
It varies on where they live, how old they are, and how they were raised. Though keep in mind that the views of Iranian-Americans tend to differ from Iranians because many left during the Islamic Revolution in 1979. They will be biased just like going down to Florida to talk to Cuban-Americans.
Well that particular person has relatives still living there, as do many of the people who have been on political shows talking about this issue.
I have known quite a few Persians in my life. Some with relatives still there, some not. They are a generally a great group of people, in my experience, although still very patriarchal in nature. They love living here though, and most of them are citizens now.
I think, in general, the Iranian people aren't so anti-American as they are anti-American government.
I think that goes for many Americans too.
Certainly goes for me, in general...
I watched a really interesting show about our relations with Iran over the past 35 years recently on National Gerographic TV. It was called Iran and the West. You should check it out when it comes on again.
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/iran-and-the-west-3337/Overview
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/smallscreen/reviews/article_1484975.php/NGCs_Iran_and_the_West_a_must_see_documentary_June_22