The 24 hour engagement.
Long-time lurker.
After some rough patches in my relationship, went on a nice weekend away with my girlfriend. Proposed. She said yes.
Drove her home last night. Got to her place, she took off the ring, handed it to me and said "I can't marry you, and we shouldn't see each other anymore."
As I said, things had been a bit rough lately as we were trying to sort out some issues. Marriage had been talked about quite a bit, and last weekend she said she didn't want to go on this trip...until I said "Ok, let's take the pressure off and just have a fun weekend then." (this trip had been planned originally as THE BIG WEEKEND.) Asked her before we left "So, you said you needed more time...is this something you'll be able to communicate with me about, or am I just going to have to take a chance at some point in the future?" Her response: "Don't tell me about it, don't ask me about it...I want to be surprised."
Thought we'd turned a corner. Thought things were better. Got wrapped up in my head that if I didn't take action soon, it would be worse. I listened to my heart. I proposed. She said yes. We were happy, for a day.
My heart is an idiot.
So I'm sitting here trying to make sense of it all. I'm hanging on to the idea that when it all became more real, she panicked and reacted.
I'm just smart enough to know that there's very little I can do to make things better, but a multitude of things I can do to make things worse. So I'm currently all about giving her time and space. I'm not calling. I'm not driving by her place. I'm steering clear of her friends and family. I'm not standing outside her window with a boombox playing Peter Gabriel songs.
For myself, I'm holding it together hanging on to the hope that it was just a panic reaction and that it could turn around at any moment. I'm kind of hanging on to that to get through today so I can go back to work tomorrow and just busy myself with work to get through the week.
I'm suppressing the ideas that tell me that now is the time to take action, to win her back, to convince her that she was misguided...whatever. Those ideas got me into this mess.
I'm aware that this could be the end of it. I guess I'll have to deal with that as it comes.
But I could use a little advice from any of you willing to throw in two cents.
Consider yourself lucky she ended the engagement now instead of after making a public announcement, sending out invitations, etc. Obviously that's little consolation for you, but man, it could be so messy down the road if she's not committed to you.
How long have you been going with her?
been together 'bout a year and a half. Knew I wanted to have some sort of relationship with her (even just as a friend) from the day I met her. We retroactively considered that our first date.
Sounds like her first instinct, of not going, was the right one. She probably was drawn in by the romance of the trip and the proposal, and after you guys got back realized it was a mistake.
Protip (more pro than I wish I was): never propose during or immediately after a "rough patch". If your girl says she needs time, give her time and don't try to step up the romance or the relationship until things are good and have been good for some time. A lot of people try to "fix" their relationship by getting married or having a kid, and this is a terrible idea... never never do that!
That said, you may have to let this relationship go. Don't push it. Give her the time and space she needs... if she comes back around, that's great. If not, realize that it wasn't meant to be.
I can only speak for myself, but nothing sends me running faster than relationship pressure when I need space... something to keep in mind, perhaps, for future reference.
tough to give any advice with what info there is. you seem to have your head on straight. tiki's advice seems good....but you need to keep in mind that she's a nutter. I don't think I'm qualified to offer any....I married jinx after 7 years of being together....there really was never much question about whether we'd end up together....it kind of just WAS.
just from a common sense standpoint, though....if she has ANY doubt...then I don't think you want to try to convince her. she should WANT to. neh?
Got wrapped up in my head that if I didn't take action soon, it would be worse.
Soon? Marriage is supposed to be forever; that means she has to still want to marry you tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after that. If there's only a limited opportunity window, if you feel like you have to act fast
or else, then you shouldn't be marrying this person.
Tiki: I completely understand that proposing doesn't solve problems. I get that. As I said, I thought we'd turned a corner. It seems that I was wrong that things were better.
Clodfobble: You hear "Wow. I hope he/she proposes soon...or else he/she will lose them" once, and it gets in your head. Insidious. Forever is a long time, especially if you're living with a sense of regret for not getting it out in the open how you feel. Clearly, it's risky. But please, I'm still struggling with the action/inaction thing. I'd love to hear how great it is to know for sure that both sides are absolutely at the best possible point to have some fairy tale thing of being able to wait a lifetime knowing that "tomorrow will be just as sure as today", regardless of taking the chance for actually making a commitment.
lumberjim: Thanks. I thought we were approaching a point of commiseration. I'm hoping she's not a nutter. I'm hoping she saw the concreteness of it and panicked. Time will tell.
BigV: check.
I guess where I'm at is this mess of trying to react to all possible situations. I'm trying hard to focus on her words and her intent and I've got this noise of badly written sitcom plots and nonsense pop psychology constantly eating at my brain and it gets easy to forget what she says or does...
I'm feeling weak, small, and alone.
:comfort:
I don't have much else to say, being pretty hopeless at relationships and understanding women and such. But I say this: your heart is NOT an idiot, and you were right and wise to ask her if it felt right to you.
There is much, much more regret in the things you never dared try, than in the things you tried that didn't work.
FWIW, my guess is, give her a week, and then call her, see if she wants to talk, see how it goes. Just my guess, though, that's roughly driving advice from a guy riding the bus.
I'm feeling weak, small, and alone.
Yeah, a kick in the balls will do that to you.
But you're 33 and rational, so you're not desparate just depressed.
Many's the happily-ever-afters that start with fits and jerks, so be cool and see what happens. You sure as hell don't want to marry her if she's not sure she's committed to it.
Peace, brother. :chill:
lumberjim: Thanks. I thought we were approaching a point of commiseration. I'm hoping she's not a nutter.
AH....I was referring to Tiki. ....being a nutter. ...not your lady.
she took off the ring, handed it to me and said "I can't marry you, and we shouldn't see each other anymore."
I wish I had said this to my second husband. I married him even though a tiny voice in the back of my head kept saying "Don't do it!".
I'm sorry to hear that you've been thru this upsetting episode. I'm sure I'd feel the same way you are feeling today if it had happened to me. I think you are handling it wisely, from what you've said here.
As has been pointed out, it's difficult to know exactly what's going on withought knowing all the details, so I'm not going to pretend to have some awesome insight into what you should do. One thing, though: if (and that's a big IF) she's the kind of person who can change her mind suddenly, you might not want to be marrying her. I don't like surprises.
I do think Tiki is on to something - the lady might have been expecting a lighthearted, 'no pressure' weekend and got a proposal instead. She might have originally agreed out of the momentum of the moment - then later realized she should have declined.
Hang in there. :)
Tiki: I completely understand that proposing doesn't solve problems. I get that. As I said, I thought we'd turned a corner. It seems that I was wrong that things were better.
That's the other aspect I was referring to; the "right after a rough patch" part. If it's getting better, you have to give the "better" a chance to settle in and get comfortable... months or seasons, not weeks.
Again, I'm speaking from my own experience and others may have very different experiences, but a proposal is very heavy and a lot of pressure to drop on a girl who just told you she wanted more time.
Marriage had been talked about quite a bit, and last weekend she said she didn't want to go on this trip...until I said "Ok, let's take the pressure off and just have a fun weekend then."
It sounds, from your description, like she was going to back out, agreed to go anyway because you promised her a no-pressure, fun weekend, and then you ambushed her with a proposal. That may not be how she perceived it, but that's the impression I got from the way you described it.
If you do end up getting back together with her, can I recommend listening and paying more attention to her cues, and not pushing things forward against her wishes because of your own restlessness/eagerness for progress?
I am not trying to make you feel bad, I am trying to shed some perspective on what may have gone wrong and how you can prevent it from going worse, if you do continue seeing this woman.
I hope things work out for you.
AH....I was referring to Tiki. ....being a nutter. ...not your lady.
Highly creative and expressive people with intense depth of feeling usually appear inexplicable and somewhat crazy from the perspective of the very mundane.
Highly creative and expressive people with intense depth of feeling usually appear inexplicable and somewhat crazy from the perspective of the very mundane.
Is that 'crazy chix sp33k' for 'I'm not a nutter?'
No, just "You're boring and shallow and you don't get me." :flounce off in a huff:
well...i AM very mundane......everyone knows....no use pretending.
No, just "You're boring and shallow and you don't get me." :flounce off in a huff:
I didn't flounce off anywhere and I don't even own a huff. I'm just pointing out that Jim thinking I'm insane, especially based on the meager relationship advice I've given here, is a larger reflection on Jim than on me.
i wasnt basing it on this thread. and i dont REALLY think your crazy. you are a bit of a nutter though. you have to admit
Everything said already seems correct, that she realized it wasn't right after the instinctive yes. Maybe then she decided that if she was going to give you a definite no, life together after that would be awkward, so a complete split is necessary. To go from instinctive yes to absolute no in 24 hours is a little weird.
Maybe she has a terrible secret that she thinks makes her un-marriage-worthy.
Old friend of mine was starting to think about marriage when he went to work a summer job at a hospital. They gave him a job working patient records. They asked him to learn the system, so to try it out, he puts his girlfriend's name in. It turned out that she had given birth a few years earlier at the hospital. It was her terrible secret, she gave the baby up for adoption, never revealed to anybody... including her boyfriend of 2 years. When he confronted her with it, she immediately never wanted to talk to him again, blocked his number, and called the hospital and had him fired.
phew
In any case, the best bet right now is a lot of long walks in the park, listening to deep music on your music player. In four weeks, no sooner, you get to write her a careful email just telling her what you life has been and asking what's been up in her life. No dwelling on feelings or suggestions of getting back together.
Also, in 11 days you are permitted to look lustily at that hottie at work. The one with the sun dress.
I didn't flounce off anywhere and I don't even own a huff. I'm just pointing out that Jim thinking I'm insane, especially based on the meager relationship advice I've given here, is a larger reflection on Jim than on me.
(Tiki, sorry if it didn't come through in my post, I was trying to poke fun at LJ, not at you.) :p
i wasnt basing it on this thread. and i dont REALLY think your crazy. you are a bit of a nutter though. you have to admit
I'm in the middle of a complicated divorce, Jim. Who isn't a bit of a nutter when they're under extreme emotional duress?
Nice of you to throw that at me at every possible opportunity, though.
(Tiki, sorry if it didn't come through in my post, I was trying to poke fun at LJ, not at you.) :p
Thanks, hon. :hug:
Why is there not a hug smilie? :(
Maybe?
But they aren't the same species as the regular ones
(Tiki, sorry if it didn't come through in my post, I was trying to poke fun at LJ, not at you.) :p
you wanna piece a me?
I'm in the middle of a complicated divorce, Jim. Who isn't a bit of a nutter when they're under extreme emotional duress?
Nice of you to throw that at me at every possible opportunity, though.
yeah...well...rub some dirt on your feelings, mary. and if anything, I've been holding back on the crazy chick shots.
I like both of 'em! Cute.
you wanna piece a me?
yeah...well...rub some dirt on your feelings, mary. and if anything, I've been holding back on the crazy chick shots.
Because clearly, you're a class act.
that's true.....
I DO try to consider peoples feelings before I step on them.
you wanna piece a me?
"You can't handle the truth!" Yeah, sorry jim. Not buying it.
that's true.....
I DO try to consider peoples feelings before I step on them.
What is up your butt? Do you think I was overly harsh to the OP? I tried to be gentle, but I also tried to be honest about the situation as I perceived it, and give him good advice. I certainly wasn't trying to step on his feelings and I hope he doesn't feel like I did. Not sure why you used it as an opportunity to take a pot shot at me, nor why you're continuing to do so.
well. it began as a kind of a friendly jab. then...the new guy thought i was talking about his old lady...so i corrected him....and then you got all serious.
i assumed you were being sarcastic when you called me a class act, so i dove into the punch and tried to break your fist with my chin by adding that i trample people's feelings routinely.
I can see where you might have interpreted that as my saying that you trample peoples feelings. ...but that's not what i meant.
"You can't handle the truth!" Yeah, sorry jim. Not buying it.
not buying what?
!!have all the women in the world gone MAD!>:??
Why yes jim, yes we have.
Bwaaaahaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...
:lol:
Disenchanted: RUN!!! Sorry. I just have a hard time with women who play the yes/no/yes/no game, which is how I read your post. I could be wrong, jsut saying...
Tiki: The Cellar would be a much darker drearier place without your input - I love your perspective in so many things, but admit it. ALL of us in here are a little nuts. That's why we get along so well. I'll be the first to admit I'm crazy - I don't think LJ meant it as an insult. I take it as a compliment. Like you said - miunderstood by the mundane.
And LJ: FAR form mundane. Feel free to step on my feelings any time. (Bare feet preferred.)
Thanks, Queen. I think he should start by being friendly, before moving on to the friendly jabs. Especially in rather serious threads about failed relationships.
There's a time and a place for all things.
!!have all the women in the world gone MAD!>:??
GONE mad???
GONE??
Have you been paying attention?
Zen, it takes a little madness to achieve greatness. :king:
Especially in rather serious threads about failed relationships.
there are no serious threads on the cellar.
There are serious threads on the cellar.
Clods thread about her son for one. There are many more.
Thanks, Queen. I think he should start by being friendly, before moving on to the friendly jabs. Especially in rather serious threads about failed relationships.
There's a time and a place for all things.
i did try being nice to you. you were too busy giving me lectures about forum etiquette to hear it.
I still insist that I have yet to be mean to you.
this time is coming to an end, i fear. ....you know what the music means....
ooh that picture was rather large.... I'll see if I can edit.
ummmmm...... Clod's thread is called "My Kid is a damn nutter". Yup, that's taking it really seriously. A little on the silly side doesn't hurt, people who insist on zero levity should probably....... EAD :p
but to return to the OP, Dude, that sucks. but frankly, marriage shouldn't change anything except your taxes and maybe address. If there's any rockiness visible in the relationship -recent past, present or future, now is not the time. She may still be the woman for you, but not now. you're doing the right thing by backing off and holding. it does feel like crap. but soon it won't. and on the bright side, you're a bloke -you're not also dealing with the satanic whisperings of the biological clock
Zen, it takes a little madness to achieve greatness. :king:
Of course. I
like the madness. Well, I certainly like the eccentricity. Weird, random, geeky, all good, just don't be boring. Or mean.
Tiki is certainly in the "like" category. I meant that in a good way. :D
I guess it's a matter of perspective. I don't think Clods issues should be taken lightly in any way, and I didn't notice anyone else doing so either. Of course, her thread was just an example. As I said, there are plenty more, and usually people treat them with the courtesy and respect the OP probably needs. That's all I'm saying.
Sometimes it's best to do your bickering elsewhere...like in the post whore thread I guess. :)
Uh, I'm in no place to say how people should or shouldn't respond.
But I guess I was hoping for something other than a breakdown in what emoticons the place should have, or a pissing match between regulars.
I'm still at a loss, but hearty thanks to the people that did respond in earnest and on topic.
It's a good sign, man, a good sign. It means people care enough about your plight to keep coming back. Then without further background information or new development, they amuse themselves, so the thread drifts around a little.
It's like the hospital shows where the cut from the ER to waiting room when things are slow. :handball:
Of course. I like the madness. Well, I certainly like the eccentricity. Weird, random, geeky, all good, just don't be boring. Or mean.
Tiki is certainly in the "like" category. I meant that in a good way. :D
:) thanks.
Uh, I'm in no place to say how people should or shouldn't respond.
But I guess I was hoping for something other than a breakdown in what emoticons the place should have, or a pissing match between regulars.
I'm still at a loss, but hearty thanks to the people that did respond in earnest and on topic.
I tried. And I hope it all works out for you, whether with this girl or one you have yet to meet.
so hey, let me try to drag this back on topic with another consolidated reply.
zengum: I like your line of thinking with the bias towards regretting action vs. regretting inaction. It's just a little academic right now. Depending on how this shakes out, I'll have more insight to whether my bias for action was the right one.
xoxoxoBruce: I'm trying to hang on to hope that it was all panic, but you're right about feeling kicked in the nuts.
alluvial: I probably haven't given full enough detail to say whether I'm a jackass worthy of her being retrospectively glad about her decision.
tiki: I thought we'd turned a corner. There doesn't seem to be a set recipe for how long or how much bliss before it's ok, yeah?
undertoad: big wonky secret is a possibility, sure. But how does one work around or through that?
Queen of the Ryche: It's a small sample set. Right now it's a yes/no. Not quite enough to distinguish a pattern. But I hear you on the possibility of repetitive oscillation (the yo-yo effect)
monster: Aye. There aren't a lot of rules about the significance and temporal locality of troubles though. It's hard to gauge how bad or how recent things are in this sort of decision.
So here's the deal: I'm driving myself batty staying distant, but the longer I go, the more it feels like I'm playing some ill-defined game. I'm not supposed to contact her, yeah? Give her her space, right?
I love her. No matter how fouled up this is right now, a couple days haven't changed how I feel. I'm getting seriously wrapped around the axle on this idea that I'm not supposed to contact her in any way, because it's feeling like a really stupid game. One that everyone has a foggy idea of the rules of (consistent or not), but they hold steadfast to.
I've not contacted her. Game or not, I'm allowing myself the possibility that no contact is the right thing right now.
And for those that say I've not given enough information for specific advice, I'll freely lay out way more relationship history than you'd care to hear. I'm trying to err on the side of "just enough", but you know, I signed up here a couple years ago when I thought I'd found a place that could help me with my last failed relationship.
tiki: I thought we'd turned a corner. There doesn't seem to be a set recipe for how long or how much bliss before it's ok, yeah?
My advice was not based on any set recipe, but simply on observation, and on your description of the situation.
If everything had gone as you hoped, then clearly I would be wrong and my advice would be moot for your situation.
hey there, disenchanted! How did GF leave it? did she say "never darken my door again" .... "What?!?!?!?!? Er no way" .... "Hmmmmmmm I need some time" ......"I'll be in touch"....
IMHO there are no rules, as such, except to listen to your partner, and communicate with them about how you feel. Did she say she needs space/time? Then I'd say that'd be about a week; then contact her with a gentle, "How are things with you" type communication. Did she say "I'll be in touch ..." then leave it to her, however tough that is, however long it is.
We can't tell you what to do, however much information you give us. Only your GF has the clues. Ask her, gently, to share them with you.
Oh, and by the way, xob is right in post #52 ...
undertoad: big wonky secret is a possibility, sure. But how does one work around or through that?
One doesn't, unless given an opportunity to do so by the other one.
The advice we give you has to be pretty general because there is no recipe.
But I can give you one solid fact... the one that loves the least, controls the relationship. Always.
But I can give you one solid fact... the one that loves the least, controls the relationship. Always.
That is so true.
Dis, yeah... we are better at supporting people through problems than actually solving them, unless the solving can be done directly somehow.
Without the lass showing up and working the issues too, we are kind of powerless, but we are a mass of caring people with ideas and ready to share ideas if that helps.
People are sometimes surprised when they get the advice they actually needed, but weren't looking for. Perhaps we can help you through your pain, if we can't help you with your relationship.
And were really good at planning diabolical revenges. :lol2:
today's epiphany: If she's not out there somewhere beating herself up trying to sort things out, then there's probably nothing to save.
It's really hard for my engineer's brain to not be actively working to solve a problem, but I'm still giving her her space. I think on friday I might send her a text along the lines of "Let me know when or if you're ready to talk"
Might not be the best idea, but it gives me something concrete as a plan for the time being.
"I can't marry you, and we shouldn't see each other anymore."
go out with someone else this weekend
lumberjim: think what you may, but I didn't just spend months of soul-searching getting to the point I did to say "Oh, right. Shun me. Perfect meaningless fling opportunity for me now. Thanks."
i did not say go get a hooker.
i said get some perspective.
whatever.
today's epiphany: If she's not out there somewhere beating herself up trying to sort things out, then there's probably nothing to save.
It's really hard for my engineer's brain to not be actively working to solve a problem, but I'm still giving her her space. I think on friday I might send her a text along the lines of "Let me know when or if you're ready to talk"
Might not be the best idea, but it gives me something concrete as a plan for the time being.
Don't text......... jeeze
if she won't talk to you, at least write. Show some labor, some effort.
(also harder to hit "delete" on....) ;)
"I can't marry you, and we shouldn't see each other anymore."
go out with someone else this weekend
lumberjim: think what you may, but I didn't just spend months of soul-searching getting to the point I did to say "Oh, right. Shun me. Perfect meaningless fling opportunity for me now. Thanks."
someone else could be a mate rather than a fling....
A funny thing that seems to be constant in times of relationship distress. There's always somebody ready to tell you you're doing it wrong. (Or maybe I'm just paying closer attention.)
My advice would be not to jump into dating right away. Give yourself time to mourn.
A funny thing that seems to be constant in times of relationship distress. There's always somebody ready to tell you you're doing it wrong. (Or maybe I'm just paying closer attention.)
sorry, I guess I came off a little harsh there.
..but when diving back in (to that relationship), do take the time to show that you mean it/care.
p.s. fwiw, I'm a wife..... (of 15 years today)
A funny thing that seems to be constant in times of relationship distress. There's always somebody ready to tell you you're doing it wrong. (Or maybe I'm just paying closer attention.)
regardless of what you're talking about, people will tel you you're doing it wrong. it's the flip side of the coin that is...people that ask for advice and then argue with you for your efforts.
in the end, you let the opinions of others run through your filters and keep what feels true, whilst discarding the chaff.
hope it works out well for you in the end, bub.
Congrats monster.
dis, I feel sorry for your situation, but I can't help thinking that if she's wishy washy about the relationship now, she probably always will be.
Send her a note or something, but from where I'm sitting, I'd say you're going to have to consider that maybe you have a lot more invested in this relationship than she does.
lumberjim: I found this place after my last relationship went tits-up, which went on a lot longer than this one did. My posting history isn't long, so it's easy to find the last narrative. I came back here because it was a safe place and all of you seem to be pretty free with the conversation. My apologies if I've stepped on some toes, but I'm a bit screwed up right now.
tiki: sound advice on the holding off on dating. I've made that decision before (Hey, I'm going to be a weird guy for a while....), I guess I'm just hoping for a little more closure before going down that road again.
I guess the long and short of it is that if the relationship isn't over, it's going to be screwed up for a while. If it is over, I'm going to be screwed up for a while.
For me, not trying to contact her is something near Herculean. But I already rushed things once, so now's my chance to give her some space. Not really my modus operandi.
... I guess I'm just hoping for a little more closure before going down that road again...
OK, but make sure you hide the body well. ;)
lumberjim: I found this place after my last relationship went tits-up, which went on a lot longer than this one did. My posting history isn't long, so it's easy to find the last narrative. I came back here because it was a safe place and all of you seem to be pretty free with the conversation. My apologies if I've stepped on some toes, but I'm a bit screwed up right now.
tiki: sound advice on the holding off on dating. I've made that decision before (Hey, I'm going to be a weird guy for a while....), I guess I'm just hoping for a little more closure before going down that road again.
I guess the long and short of it is that if the relationship isn't over, it's going to be screwed up for a while. If it is over, I'm going to be screwed up for a while.
For me, not trying to contact her is something near Herculean. But I already rushed things once, so now's my chance to give her some space. Not really my modus operandi.
I wish I could say that I didn't know what you mean, but I do know what you mean. You mentioned having a hard time not seeking solutions; I do the same thing, and sometimes I give into the overwhelming urge to try to make contact and force the reconnection of something that is, beyond my power, disconnected. You're not alone in that. Just try to hang in there from day to day and remind yourself that it gets better, it gets easier, eventually, even if you don't hear from her. If you do hear from her and it isn't what you want to hear, it might make it harder for a while, but even that will pass with enough time. If you need to talk abut it, there are people here who will listen and understand.
today's epiphany: If she's not out there somewhere beating herself up trying to sort things out, then there's probably nothing to save.
It's really hard for my engineer's brain to not be actively working to solve a problem, but I'm still giving her her space. I think on friday I might send her a text along the lines of "Let me know when or if you're ready to talk"
Might not be the best idea, but it gives me something concrete as a plan for the time being.
This is good - it does take two to make a relationship, you can't mend it on your own. How you contact her is up to you - it depends on what is usual, or what might make an impression, between the two of you.
Good luck.
today's epiphany: If she's not out there somewhere beating herself up trying to sort things out, then there's probably nothing to save.
It's really hard for my engineer's brain to not be actively working to solve a problem, but I'm still giving her her space. I think on friday I might send her a text along the lines of "Let me know when or if you're ready to talk"
Might not be the best idea, but it gives me something concrete as a plan for the time being.
I agree with Limey, it does take 2 to mend a relationship and part of me wonders where she has been (head space wise) since the return of your getaway.
Im all for the txt, its a tester of sorts and she will either ignore it (which I think would be a totally low act IMO) or it will start a conversation that needs to happen.
When Friday comes around, I believe you've given her enough time to sort through her thoughts andshe should be willing to open the lines of communication, even if its just with a *I want to talk, but Im not quite ready* type of thing.
Good luck, one day at a time.
I agree with Limey, it does take 2 to mend a relationship and part of me wonders where she has been (head space wise) since the return of your getaway.
Im all for the txt, its a tester of sorts and she will either ignore it (which I think would be a totally low act IMO) or it will start a conversation that needs to happen.
When Friday comes around, I believe you've given her enough time to sort through her thoughts andshe should be willing to open the lines of communication, even if its just with a *I want to talk, but Im not quite ready* type of thing.
Good luck, one day at a time.
I disagree that it would be "low". If you break it off with someone, and they text you wanting to talk about it, no response is perfectly within the bounds of courtesy. It may not be the response he desires, but she doesn't owe him that any more than my ex owes me repeated painful rehashings of why he doesn't want to be with me.
Repeated painful rehashes maybe not. Some kind of explanation, or closure contact is probably courteous to most people.
I don't know how much they've talked about it already, so only he can decide whether it's appropriate to make contact again.
So why's he askin' us?
:lol:
I would say that she does owe him an explanation. Whether that will be forthcoming in the short term is another matter.
I had to wait 5 years for one (particularly enlightening) explanation.
Assuming there was really no more to the dialogue than what he typed in the OP, then yes, I would say she should do him the basic human courtesy of explaining why she's ending the relationship. I didn't want to make that assumption, though, and he hasn't really said one way or the other.
Its possible that she has simply met someone else and that is the reason for the troubles in the relationship. If this was after only a month or two of dating, then simply disappearing is fine. But if it is after a year or so worth, then she is a pig for doing it this way.
Or, she may have realized that he is wrong for her, and have been struggling with it for a while. None of us know. We don't even know if they discussed it at all.
The additional dialogue was that she said I'd betrayed her for not giving her more time. That I'd gone back on my word that it was going to be a no-pressure weekend.
I took her literally when she said "I want to be surprised." I figured that meant it was ok from there on out.
Personally, and I'm sure there will be those disagree, I don't think I betrayed her. In my mind, betrayal suggests malice (or at least forthought.) I, on the other hand, am incompetent.
The additional dialogue was that she said I'd betrayed her for not giving her more time. That I'd gone back on my word that it was going to be a no-pressure weekend.
I took her literally when she said "I want to be surprised." I figured that meant it was ok from there on out.
Personally, and I'm sure there will be those disagree, I don't think I betrayed her. In my mind, betrayal suggests malice (or at least forthought.) I, on the other hand, am incompetent.
Speaking solely for myself, I would also have felt betrayed. Not because your intention was malicious, but because you did not respect the specific request for no pressure. A proposal is as high-pressure as you can go in that context.
Why did you take her at her word that she wanted to be surprised - a vague statement - but not take her at her word that she wanted a no-pressure weekend - a specific statement? Especially since
she almost didn't go and was convinced to by your promise to make it a no-pressure weekend? You lured her into a trip she didn't want to take with a promise you had no intention of keeping.
If I were put in that position, I would feel that it was because you were placing your desires ahead of respect for me, and I would almost certainly have reacted the same way... accepted the engagement under the pressure of the moment, especially because of being a captive audience without the ability to just walk away from conflict and go home if it blew up into an emotional scene.
You put her in a very, very uncomfortable, awkward position, to be quite honest, even though she asked you not to. What was she to do? Turn you down and then... what? She could have no idea how you would react to rejection (unless she does have an idea - only you know) and she was trapped with you away from home. I suppose she could have packed her bags and found transportation somehow, depending on how far from a town you were. Safer to just say yes and play along until she's home, then break it off.
Cowardly? Maybe so. But as a woman, sometimes being a coward is a safer bet.
I don't think it's betrayal. Maybe not listening closely enough, but certainly not betrayal.
It's all fine to be ernest and sincere, but sometimes you've just got to bide your time as you're learning now.
Either way, you'd still be in the same position I think.
Her feelings and his intentions are two different things, IMO. I can understand her sense of betrayal, even though it was not his intention.
I also think that he really really needs to revisit his train of thought when he decided to tell her "no pressure" to get her to go on the trip, while planning the ultimate pressure possible... it was basically a deliberate lie designed to get her to be in a position she explicitly stated she did not want, and yet he seems convinced that it wasn't due to her saying she wanted to be surprised by what he had planned for the trip.
In that context, it seems obvious that the kind of "surprise" that would not conflict with the promise of no pressure would be something more along the lines of lobster dinner or a trip to the sea lion caves.
tiki: I'd be with you on the "taking her at her word and making a specific statement", except, well, she never said that. Yes, she said she had reservations about going, but it wasn't until after we got back that she said anything specific about the deal being it had to have been a no-pressure weekend.
tiki: it was no lie. I was freaking out the whole time deciding if I should or shouldn't go forward.
I was freaking out thinking that if I didn't ask soon my chance would be gone.
But do not try to tell me that my I had dishonesty in my heart. Confused, wrong idea, boneheaded. Yeah. But deliberate lie? Screw you.
tiki: I'd be with you on the "taking her at her word and making a specific statement", except, well, she never said that. Yes, she said she had reservations about going, but it wasn't until after we got back that she said anything specific about the deal being it had to have been a no-pressure weekend.
Oh, ok... I misunderstood, then. I thought the promise of no pressure was what convinced her to go on the trip. If that wasn't agreed on ahead of time, sounds like she's just spinning out on stuff going on in her head.
tiki: it was no lie. I was freaking out the whole time deciding if I should or shouldn't go forward.
I was freaking out thinking that if I didn't ask soon my chance would be gone.
But do not try to tell me that my I had dishonesty in my heart. Confused, wrong idea, boneheaded. Yeah. But deliberate lie? Screw you.
You obviously did not consciously intend to lie, and you also obviously believe you did not lie. However, I came to the conclusion that you lied to her based on what you posted, as I had nothing else to go on.
Marriage had been talked about quite a bit, and last weekend she said she didn't want to go on this trip...until I said "Ok, let's take the pressure off and just have a fun weekend then." (this trip had been planned originally as THE BIG WEEKEND.)
You see, since you then went on to propose, it was not truthful when you told her this. That is the part that I cannot help but interpret as not honest, and I kind of suspect that is the part she also is perceiving as not honest.
If things didn't happen the way you stated they happened, perhaps there was no untruth, but according to your own telling, you misled her. That is the part I think you could stand to re-examine; your own thought processes and motives, and what made you believe it was a good idea, or even an acceptable one, to mislead her in order to get her in a position you wanted her in, but which she had been clear she did not want to be in.
Compare that with:
"Don't tell me about it, don't ask me about it, I want to be surprised...with a lobster dinner"
Or how about:
"I know you've said you need more time, but is this something we're going to communicate about, or am I just going to have to a take a chance at some point....on a trip to the sea lion caves?"
What I said was true at the time. And then I got blinded by a week of things feeling like the best of times. I tried to gauge how things were going with my question.
But you've decided I was being willfully deceptive. Clearly I had spent the entire week twirling my mustache and conceiving ways to trick her into marrying me (you know, provided that I ever untied her from the railroad tracks)
If it's any consolation I don't think anyone else much thinks you deceived her.
I hope you can find a good outcome for both of you though, regardless of what mistakes have been made by whom. :)
Moustache-twirling, railroad tracks ... I note that Dis-E still has some sense of humour about this.
There is hope for him.
Yeah, he'll be OK as soon as his balls drop back down. ;)
I'm just trying to explain that I can see how she would feel misled and betrayed. I don't think he consciously intended to mislead or betray her, I just think that maybe he was so focused on what he wanted that he (unconsciously) chose to interpret her statement about wanting to be surprised in a way that was favorable to what his intentions were.
I wasn't there for the conversation, so, again, I'm only basing it on what he has told us, and my advice is still that I think he could benefit from really examining what his thought processes were when he decided to go ahead with proposing in the face of what seems (to me) like a clear red light, in order to understand why and how he might deal better with a relationship with her or any other woman in the future.
Maybe, knowing what he knows about her and their relationship, to him "Don't tell me about it, don't ask me about it" is a clear green light. I wouldn't interpret it that way, but again, I'm not in that relationship and only have the small amount of context that he has posted.
As I have said as many times as possible, I am posting based on what my reactions, feelings, and thoughts would be if I were in a similar situation. Maybe it can provide some insight about why she is reacting the way she is, or maybe not. Take it as you will
Damn Tiki....let it go already.
Damn Tiki....let it go already.
I take it Pico is the guy who decides when topics are over and people have to stop being interested in them?
Thanks Pico, it's a good thing they found a special job for a special person like you.
And its a good thing that highly aggressive neurotics like you can come here to get their sensitive egos in a defensive twist.
Oooh look, another name-caller! It's like an epidemic.
I'm not as sensitive as you like to pretend I am, but if it makes you feel good thinking that I'm actually upset and not just a fast typist, go ahead and masturbate over it. :)
Don't forget to put on clean socks.
so umm yeah.
I just reread the string twice because the this was..confusing. what I gained from doing this is that the situation..is confusing.
I'm not trying to sound obtuse here but rather make a point:
I get the feeling this woman does not know what she wants so she is sending confusing messages. she is clearly still interested on some level or she would not have gone away with you, you would not have been in a situation that allowed you to propose, etc..but this is actually, at the current moment somewhat irrelevant it seems to me. this only establishes you are in a relationship and not a stalker
one thing I've learned in relationships is to listen to what people say AND do and SAY and do..in other words, if they don't match, and you are getting mixed messages, it doesn't necessarily mean they want one thing or another or are covering it up, what it more likely means is that they don't know WHAT they want, and so they can't tell you
this also, by the way, means they can't give you what YOU WANT. the last thing in the world you want is to marry someone who is not sure or confused. being with her will probably make her more confused. and you more confused. if you are getting % points towards "I want to flee and don't even know if I want to go away with you" this is not a good sign for a workable relationship. at least not at the moment. even if some part of them feels the same way you do
and because she is confused she also probably is not yet clearly analyzing her feelings and there are probably levels of blame. levels of betrayal. and it really doesn't matter where this is your fault.
best thing you can do is back off. way off. until she has some idea what she wants and comes after you. or doesn't. which is to say: she may or may not owe you an explanation. that is also irrelevant to the relationship and merely a matter of justice in general. and anayway, you don't seem want an explanation. you want her or closure. she is in no place to give you either.
leave it.
Tiki, you post yourself in a corner constantly. Maybe being a fast typist isnt a good thing for you to be.
Tiki, you post yourself in a corner constantly. Maybe being a fast typist isnt a good thing for you to be.
Maybe you should start a new thread about how much I suck, and you and Jim and Bruce can have a party in there.
Damn Tiki....let it go already.
And its a good thing that highly aggressive neurotics like you can come here to get their sensitive egos in a defensive twist.
Tiki, you post yourself in a corner constantly. Maybe being a fast typist isnt a good thing for you to be.
Is her posting bothering you? Or are you standing up for disenchanted? I notice you're not taking issue with any of the *content* in her posts. Maybe you think he's heard enough? Why is this even an issue for you? If disenchanted can read or ignore Tiki's posts, surely you can too.
No. No. No. Just me being bitchy. Yup I could, and you could also ignore me if I dont...too.
YEAH...we could all ignore each other...wouldn't that be lovely.
pass that pillow?
No. No. No. Just me being bitchy. Yup I could, and you could also ignore me if I dont...too.
Pico. Playing the "Who's a bigger bitch?" game might make me out to look bad, but it puts you in the same boat, so if you don't like me, you might want to reconsider whether you want to wedge yourself into the same category with that which you despise.
you're just itching aren't you? like a muscle cramp in your psyche. like a hemorrhoid on your soul.
{{carnival music}}
step right up folks, Tiki is taking all comers. See if you can last 3 minutes in the ring! The pugilists among you can't pass up this opportunity to test your metal against the "Island God of Grousing!"
There's only one rule, here folks....but only Tiki knows what that rule is, and she can change that rule at any time! Step right up!
If you can last just 3 minutes in the ring with her, you win a bunch of shitty comments from people like ........well. you know who, dontcha? if you can't......well....you win the same exact thing.
{{/carnival music}}
Pico. Playing the "Who's a bigger bitch?" game might make me out to look bad, but it puts you in the same boat, so if you don't like me, you might want to reconsider whether you want to wedge yourself into the same category with that which you despise.
Logic? On MY internets? BLASPHEMY! Stone the heretic!
you're just itching aren't you? like a muscle cramp in your psyche. like a hemorrhoid on your soul.
{{carnival music}}
step right up folks, Tiki is taking all comers. See if you can last 3 minutes in the ring! The pugilists among you can't pass up this opportunity to test your metal against the "Island God of Grousing!"
There's only one rule, here folks....but only Tiki knows what that rule is, and she can change that rule at any time! Step right up!
If you can last just 3 minutes in the ring with her, you win a bunch of shitty comments from people like ........well. you know who, dontcha? if you can't......well....you win the same exact thing.
{{/carnival music}}
Must you say *everything* you think?
We all got it, the same one thought, the first twenty times you said it. Save some oxygen for the rest of us, ok?
i'M HOLDING MY BREATH AS I TYPE THE FOLLOWING:
"EAT A DICK, SIR!"
Pico. Playing the "Who's a bigger bitch?" game might make me out to look bad, but it puts you in the same boat, so if you don't like me, you might want to reconsider whether you want to wedge yourself into the same category with that which you despise.
Tiki, I would probably like you in person, you have a lot of interests and seem to be a well-rounded open-minded person. I just havent liked the way you have talked to some people on this forum. It really is troll-like and aggressive. And so I poked you. As others have.
disenchanted-
I think you didn't do anything wrong on purpose. I agree with daff that you were probably getting mixed signals. Here's the thing tho, if your girl had agreed to go away for the weekend based on your promise of "no pressure," then she expected it to be "no pressure." When she told you "surprise me" she obviously didn't mean for you to do so that particular weekend. Or at least that seems obvious to me. You said the week leading up to the weekend was great, ya'll were having a marvelous time with each other. Probably due to the fact that you had promised that there would be "no pressure" that weekend. She felt secure that she wouldn't have to be answering such a heavy question and that allowed ya'll to relax and get along better. I'm saying all of this because although I know you listened to your heart, I don't believe you were truly listening to her. "Surprise me" does not mean "surprise me on the weekend we've already decided will not be the weekend."
If you do get back with her, leave all this behind you. When ya'll talk it out, take the blame. That might seem hard, because you seem to want to find fault with what she said. Its not what she said, but how you interpreted what she said. So don't bring it up. Say you made a mistake, you misunderstood and that you will try better to understand her wants. I don't think you have a chance to truly mend things otherwise.
I'm going off of what I know as a woman, and how I would feel about the situation. I know that I would kick you out the door so fast if you started blaming me.
i'M HOLDING MY BREATH AS I TYPE THE FOLLOWING:
"EAT A DICK, SIR!"
I know you well enough to recognize that is meant as a term of endearment, or an insult, or just the thing you say when you can't think of anything else to say.
I know I have not endeared myself to you. No love lost there. And your ability to insult me is on par with the neighbor's dog barking--a content-free annoyance.
Which leaves only silence-filling, last-word having reflex. I get it. You are saying the same nothing over and over and over again. All I'm asking is that you just say it silently, please. If necessary, sit on your hands.
You are saying the same nothing over and over and over again.
I must admit that I'm curious as to what message or non-message you see me repeating, V? In your words, what is it that I'm saying?
{{carnival music}}
{{/carnival music}}
this is the LJ we know and love
this is the LJ we know and love
lick it
this is the LJ we know <strike> and love</strike>
Fixed that for you.
are you saying you don't love me?
ow: my feelings.
Tiki, I would probably like you in person, you have a lot of interests and seem to be a well-rounded open-minded person. I just havent liked the way you have talked to some people on this forum. It really is troll-like and aggressive. And so I poked you. As others have.
Do you feel my posts in this thread were troll-like and aggressive?
Because I was honestly trying to give the guy my perspective, and how I would have reacted and why, based on what he wrote. It seems to me that there are a few people following me around and jabbing at me off-topic in any thread I post in, to get a rise out of me, and all it does is derail the thread. That, actually,
is trolling.
Actually, here I thought you were just getting defensive after Ali's post...thats why I sugged letting it go. (When she said that no one else here was actually accusing him of betrayal).
But otherwise, in some other threads...yes. Im sure its just your style...you are obviously an intelligent and strong-willed individual who wont take any guff from anyone.
It seems to me that there are a few people following me around and jabbing at me off-topic in any thread I post in, to get a rise out of me, and all it does is derail the thread. That, actually, is trolling.
I gotta cop to this.
I've totally been doing that. I apologize. I won't do it any more.
Do you feel my posts in this thread were troll-like and aggressive?
Because I was honestly trying to give the guy my perspective, and how I would have reacted and why, based on what he wrote. It seems to me that there are a few people following me around and jabbing at me off-topic in any thread I post in, to get a rise out of me, and all it does is derail the thread. That, actually, is trolling.
I think what you do a lot of is reitterate previous points, but you don't need to. Because it's all there for the long term once you've pressed the send button. Say what you need to, and then let someone else have a go. Just because their perspective is different doesn't necessarily mean they think you're wrong, or that you should think they're looking to argue with you.
With regard to this particular thread and the advice that you've given dis, I'd say you've made your point very clearly. That's all Pico was saying. That we all get where you're coming from. :)
Actually, here I thought you were just getting defensive after Ali's post...thats why I sugged letting it go. (When she said that no one else here was actually accusing him of betrayal).
But otherwise, in some other threads...yes. Im sure its just your style...you are obviously an intelligent and strong-willed individual who wont take any guff from anyone.
Oh. I was trying to clarify what I DID mean. Because if someone thinks I've accused them of something, and I wasn't intending to, I usually try to clarify my intentions, in the hope that they'll understand and not go on carrying the idea that I was accusing them.
It seems like maybe my communication style and tendency to try to clarify when I think I've miscommunicated are not typical here? But I would rather reiterate in an attempt to further communication than let a misunderstanding rest.
I gotta cop to this.
I've totally been doing that. I apologize. I won't do it any more.
Thank you. I appreciate that.
It seems like maybe my communication style and tendency to try to clarify when I think I've miscommunicated are not typical here? But I would rather reiterate in an attempt to further communication than let a misunderstanding rest.
I used to do a lot of that myself, and honestly, all it did was annoy people. The difference with this forum is that most people are fairly open minded and willing to consider almost any point someone makes, but there's no way everyone is going to agree with anything anyone says here. There's just too many of us looking in from different angles. Just to reitterate (j/k), that's what I mean when I say to say your bit then let someone else have a go. It's interesting to watch what might spin off sometimes.
It's not like I can stop anyone else from having a go.
I'm not trying to please everyone here, and if I think someone has not understood me, I'm not going to stop explaining to them just because some other person I'm not even talking to might be tired of reading my explanation.
tiki: By all means, if I've got it wrong, keep explaining.
But my current take on your viewpoint is "Admit it, you're a horrible deceitful liar. And even if you didn't think you were being a horrible deceitful liar, just admit that you're a horrible deceitful liar. Once you admit this, then you will know that you are a horrible deceitful liar and I will feel better even if you don't."
I may have gotten that wrong, but it's really coming across like your angle is that I was consciously being deceptive, even if I didn't realize I was doing it (which might contradict "consciously"), so I'm supposed to find something meaningful in admitting that I'm whatever you think I am.
Does that about sum it up?
No, I was trying to explain that I would probably have reacted similarly to the way your ex-girlfriend did, and also to explain why.
Since you asked for feedback that might give you insight into the situation, I thought it might be helpful for you to hear how she might be thinking of it.
And yeah, that means that, like your ex-girlfriend, I kinda think that the way you went about the weekend, going back on your promise, was wrong. But my intent in telling you is so that, perhaps, you would have a better idea of her perspective, and maybe having that, be better able to talk to her from a position of empathy and understanding.
Because you asked.
But maybe you did everything just exactly perfectly right, and your ex-girlfriend is just a total unreasonable cunt.
You're better off without that stupid irrational whore. I don't know why you ever fell for a bitch like that in the first place.
See, here's why I keep getting hung up on this (Hey, I've got a highly emotional and irrational coupon that expires this week), but you keep telling me that the problem is that I broke my promise.
I guess I'd be more receptive to that if, say...I'd promised something? Maybe swore on a stack of phonebooks that I'd do one thing and then gone back on it.
I said "well, let's set the pressure aside and go have a fun weekend anyway." Hardly a blood oath. I think I've made stronger and more specific commitments ordering lunch than a statement like that. Clearly, there was a major mis-communication here. And I'm willing to admit that I should've listened better, and I should've taken the chance that there wasn't the immediacy that I thought. I'm not trying to say I'm blameless, but I am short in the clue department.
As for your latter patronizing comment, my conversation with you is done.
daff0dil: I hear you on the backing off part. I'm doing my best on giving her space (many signs point toward the conclusion that I didn't give her enough time and space before. Might be the best path now.)
I'm thinking I might try to call her this weekend and just say something like "Hi, calling to say hello, thinking of what happened, and thinking of you. Let me know when you're ready to talk."
Would probably work better as a voicemail message, but planning on falling back on "let's not have a serious conversation over the phone" if she answers and things sound like they're getting rough.
I've caused enough difficulty, I'm not looking for adding more. But right or wrong, I know that I'm going to be beating myself up if I don't leave the possibility of conversation. It might be self-indulgent, but I'm aiming to keep it as simple as possible.
After that, I don't know. Limbo. Purgatory. Whatever. It stands to reason that at some point if she doesn't want to respond, I'm going to have to figure out how to move on with my life, closure or not. That's another day's worry, though.
You don't seem interested in hearing about where you might have gone wrong or what you could do differently or why she reacted badly, despite what you said initially... so what DO you want to hear? That she's wrong for feeling that way?
The additional dialogue was that she said I'd betrayed her for not giving her more time. That I'd gone back on my word that it was going to be a no-pressure weekend.
So, despite the fact that she said that, you don't want any suggestions that might lead to insight about why she feels that way? If you won't acknowledge her feelings regarding that, I definitely don't think you should talk to her at all, because it will only rend in her being angry and you feeling more hurt.
I tried to explain why I think she probably feels this way. You don't want to hear it. I don't really have anything else to add.
tiki: I heard you the first half dozen times. Dredging up my words about what she told me versus what was going through my head doesn't change anything. It's already clear that they weren't matching up, alright?
At this point, you're not giving insight, you're not enlightening me, you're just positioning yourself to argue with me in place of her. Maybe you think you're doing something honorable in that.
Way I see it, you've made up your mind about me. That's awesome for you. It just seems like utter bullshit that you keep pretending you're doing it for my own good. I'm not asking for sympathizers, but holy fuck, give it a goddamn rest already, would you? I FUCKING GET YOUR POINT, ALRIGHT?!?
No wonder she doesn't want to be with you. You're kind of a dick. :lol: Fuck you.
I FUCKING GET YOUR POINT, ALRIGHT?!?
Yes but you haven't praised the source, begged forgiveness, and promised never to do it again. :haha:
tiki: Clearly there's plenty of room for you to play victim. This thread has been sprinkled with that, and I hope it's working out well for you.
xoxoxoBruce: My aim wasn't to get wrapped up in some pissing match, maybe my fault was having some aim at all. That said, one grain of salt is diminished while another grows.
Ppphhhhffft! :lol: It's not me playing victim, here. But thanks for the laughs.
tiki: Like I said, I've got a nice "I'm fucked up" coupon (that'll probably expire soon) You, on the other hand, continue to post to get the upper hand.
I know I'm screwed up right now, but I also know that it's limited on how long before people call bullshit on it.
You...well, it seems that likely that you'll keep on doing your thing as long as it gets you attention. I'll give you a hint: You lost all credibility when you posted your little picture flipping off the camera. I was ready to listen until you decided to pull the "Look what a badass I am" card.
I hope life treats you well. I'm sure anyone willing to listen to you in the bad times will have their work cut out for them.
Disenchanted - may I say how sorry (and indeed embarrassed) I am that this thread has turned into a pissing match. There is a thread for that elsewhere ...
I wish you luck in your next contact with your GF - luck in that it moves the situation on ...
limey: Thanks, well appreciated. I'm spun up right now, and it's making it easy to get drawn into a fray that might exist beyond my topic. I think I'd be wise to back off a bit for now.
I've got some hastily scattered notes from the advice I got (both the easy to take, and the not so welcome) and I'm going to mull on those a little. I think I'll call the lady tomorrow aiming more for an indication of "Hey, when it's time, I'd like the chance to talk."
Maybe I've got a lot to answer for, maybe it was just nerves. I don't know right now. I'm going to allow myself the indulgence of trying to make it clear that I'm open to talk, but I'm leaving it at that. Intended or not, I've probably added enough pressure as it is.
tiki: Like I said, I've got a nice "I'm fucked up" coupon (that'll probably expire soon) You, on the other hand, continue to post to get the upper hand.
I know I'm screwed up right now, but I also know that it's limited on how long before people call bullshit on it.
You...well, it seems that likely that you'll keep on doing your thing as long as it gets you attention. I'll give you a hint: You lost all credibility when you posted your little picture flipping off the camera. I was ready to listen until you decided to pull the "Look what a badass I am" card.
I hope life treats you well. I'm sure anyone willing to listen to you in the bad times will have their work cut out for them.
Already been through hell, not quite done with it. I am fortunate enough to have some amazing friends who are seeing me through.
Me reposting my backyard pic for Pico was all it took for you to form a snap judgement? Damn, I'll have to remember that for future reference.
tiki: Good for you. I'm glad you've got your pain to wear as a badge. That must be awesome. I bet it feels really good being right. Hey, this must be like extra laurels on top of all that, huh?
(crap. I was supposed to walk away. Exhibit E on me not good with the thinking things through before responding to the troll.)
I'm not always right, and I know that. And I know that you're angry and hurting and upset right now, and I shouldn't have reacted with anger at you taking offense to my interpretation of what you posted. I'm sorry for that.
As far as badges of pain, we all have those, I think.
tiki: By all means, if I've got it wrong, keep explaining.
I took this at face value.
Errr...ok
Dis - good plan on the non pushy *when its time, I'd like a chance to talk* approach.
Thing with women (some of them anyway) is we are usually proactive, rather than reactive and we have these things analysed, sorted and stored....by the time you guys even get an inkling that there is an issue.
I hope you stick around here, and best wishes for the outcome you are hoping for...or some closure.
Make good use of your fucked up coupon, the expiry dates around here are foooorever.
Big hugs Dis - Us womenfolk are hard to read - (You menfolk too for that matter) - Agreed on the "no pressure" approach to talking to her - maybe an apology for creating pressure on what was to be a no-pressure weekend (doesn't matter if you were right or wrong)? and a let's take it easy, and try to recreate what we had the week that was so good before it went bad? Good luck - If she really is the one, it will all work out fine.
oh man, this is all painful to read
first off, this isn't about tiki and her "issues" whatever they may be, so maybe we can get off that? I thought it was about a broken engagement and finding clarity or closure?
so in that vein:
d: the longer you look for a person to blame or what you did wrong or what she did wrong the longer you will be mired in details that are not, actually, relevant any more.
I understand, you are hurting and you love her and you want to be with her or atleast understand why you can't be.
one day you will probably get all these things, in the meanwhile, I am going to suggest something else:
here is what you know:
-whether or not she wanted to marry you for an hour or a second or a year, at the moment she does not want to, and is so uncomfortable with the thought she doesn't even want to talk to you yet. I would assume she wanted to marry you at some point and that whatever happened had something to do with you and something to do with her.
-she probably will one day want to resume contact, and when she does you can make that easier by briefly letter her know that you still love her, that you are sorry for the way things went down (not sorry you proposed, just sorry that it turned out how it did) and that you are here to listen, when that time comes. if you leave a message to that affect great. that seems perfect. if she picks up I'd tell her the same thing: you love her and are concerned about her and when she's ready to talk you are in need of clarity and closure. in person. remember: at this point, it's about you, not her. you don't know what's going on with her but you know what is going on with you.
-she will never feel good about saying yes than saying no. that just isn't something anyone tends to feel good about unless they are uniquely cruel. so don't hold it against her or find ways as to how or why she did something wrong when she said yes or no. she probably gaved mixed signals. you probably followed them because you wanted to believe them. not because you are deceitful. but you inadvertently misled her in your need.
anyway, that is my ten cents
well, that and about half of you are immature prats far too uncomfortable with your own emotions to witness criticism and conflict with jumping in or exaperbating it with the verbal equivelent of a sledgehammer and a whoopie cushion
well, that and about half of you are immature prats far too uncomfortable with your own emotions to witness criticism and conflict with jumping in or exaperbating it with the verbal equivelent of a sledgehammer and a whoopie cushion
back to the loch with yooo, nessie!
[youtube]ne1tbqIuwzs[/youtube]
yeah, I think that's a good idea. I'm finding these swamps a little murky.
nice meeting you all. well, not all of you. but certainly some of you.
daffodil, that really made sense.
Dis: don't get too hung up on blame, mate. Understanding what went wrong is good, but be kind to yourself.
Hey disenchanted:
Man, I am so sorry to hear your painful news. I think I know how you're hurting, because I have had similar experiences. There's really a lot goin on in this thread...Your original plea for help to make sense of it all, that's my starting point.
I don't know you really, at all, but you suggested you had a number of posts here and I went and reread them. You sound like a good guy. Your posts are clear and serious. You seem very sincere, earnest even. Kinda like me, minus the clarity. I recognize you. So I'll tell you about my thoughts and experience, you take what you want and leave the rest.
Specifically, what I recognize in myself, after reading your story, is an unequal desire in each partner for the other partner. You, unfortunately, desire her more than she desires you. This sucks. You're more invested, your stakes already in the game are higher, your hurt from rejection is greater. (Now, she may be flogging herself without mercy, I don't know. When she shows up here and tells us, I'll recalculate accordingly.) You soared higher, you fell farther, you hit harder. Good for you.
I am not mocking you.
Be yourself, feel deeply. But know (you know now whether you knew before or not) that the risks are great. The rewards are even greater though. This is the first sense making point I wish to emphasize. You're doing it right, at least this part.
But disenchanted, your love is not enough. Not when the other partner does not have a similar commitment to you, and to the relationship. I'm not arguing that the measure of your love needs to be equal to four decimal places, as if love could ever be measured that way. I am saying that your strong desire was enough to prompt you to invite her to join you at the next higher level of commitment. Her desire, not only unequal to yours, does not even meet that minimum threshold. This is important.
Marriage, as you know, is work, shared work. You can not do her part. In this particular situation, your love, no matter how passionate, or how desperate, can not sustain any kind of bond without her active participation. You can't cover for her on this score. You may want to, you may believe you can do it, but you can't. It is easy to miss this because of how love works, how love feels. Countless voices far more eloquent than mine have extolled the magical blindness that accompanies the feelings of love. This is second sense making point I wish to illustrate. You misread her level of commitment to you and your relationship.
To be fair, she missed it too. But that's the thing about love, it has this wonderful positive feedback effect. Probably she has some love for you, and those feelings were amplified by your love for her. It's contagious! The right answer to your Big Question (at that moment) was Yes! But the boost was not enough to carry the day. It was only temporary--the moment had passed--and the remaining level, her level of desire, wasn't enough to justify a Yes! the next morning.
I'm tempted to say that this is sad, and in a way it is sad. A loss like this really hurts, there's no question about that. But I have to confirm the cold comfort offered by many in this thread that it is no small mercy that this decision was reached at this early stage. I have lived this myself. Your belief or understanding of this point in no way alters its fundamental truth. It is a blessing in disguise. A kick-ass (or ass-kicking) disguise to be sure, but an awesome blessing needs an awesome disguise. I do share your pain. I know this hurts and I hate to see you suffer.
As to the communication issue, what do I know? Clearly it went off the rails, soared in a pleasant free fall for a while, then cratered spectacularly on the opposite side of the ravine. Fascinating and horrifying at the same time. Communication is another shared enterprise, like marriage, that can not be done by one. While much of what makes a marriage work depends on communication, the blinding effect of love that makes marriage easier, makes communication harder. Much harder. Much blinder. You heard what you wanted to hear, through the filters of your powerful feelings for her. Same goes for her. Then when the blinding intoxication of love wore off the next day, a review of the minutes from the previous meetings produced a shocked surprise. In my experience, reviewing the transcripts for he said, she said is rarely useful for anything except accumulating more ammunition for more conflict. Don't bother. Start/continue where you are now. Have a short memory. Short and selective. (Yeah, I know that cuts both ways. So sue me.) Recriminations are counter productive. My sense making point: selective hearing under the influence of love, both parties guilty. Move on, move forward.
What else is there? Your future, your immediate future? Ok, I'll bite on that one too. "Giving some space..." zomg. Herculean. And Sisyphean. But noble and worthwhile. If you press, she withdraws. If you chase, she runs. If you pursue, she flees. Proceed accordingly. A friendly suggestion from someone who also feels deeply--pick the maximum distance, psychically, temporally, physically that you tolerate, and double it. Use that as your baseline. Not to get all Johnathan Livingston Seagull on you, but if she wants contact, wants *you*, she'll find you. If you don't hear from her, it's not time yet. Don't despair, this is not permanent, despite how it feels. When you've reached your absolute limit, and then waited some more... you'll cave and contact her. That's ok. You'll learn something and you can recalibrate at that time. It will be ok.
It will be ok. You know this because you yourself said so, and lived this truth based on your previous posts over the years. Yeah, I know it sucks in the meantime. Sorry. At least you have all of us to entertain you while you heal.
Very lucid and thought provoking, V. I am glad I read that.
Thank you, case, for the compliment.
That post was a long time coming. It sprung from the bullshit meanness among the posters and from my own current and former losses, as much as from an upwelling of compassion for disenchanted's situation.
Been there, done that, got the scars.
Dis - just to say I went through something similar.
Flew over to New York for Christmas, and my BF practically proposed on the plane. Not down on one knee, no ring, just said that when my divorce came through we should tie the knot.
Five days later I dropped him off at his house - we'd had a lousy flight home, we were both shattered and wanted to crash in our separate beds. He said he'd call me when he woke up. A couple of hours after I expected the call I got a text. Saying he was sorry, he was back with his ex girlfriend. Not to contact him as she was coming to pick him up.
Fool that I was, I went along with the silly rules and just moped. I should have screamed and shouted. I should have demanded an explanation. But I should have realised that this was always going to be a pattern with him, and that he had no interest in me as a long term partner, and once he realised he could get away with that sort of behaviour, it was always likely to happen again. And it did. Year after year.
Let her go.
Get closure any way you can - burn your bridges if it works for you.
If she's the right person for you, if she feels you are right for her, it's up to her to come back.
You might have forced her hand with your proposal. But it's shown you something you might have had a hard time realising otherwise.
So I allowed myself to call her. It was after she would've been done with work, so it was 50/50 if she'd answer. Ended up leaving a voicemail.
In under 23 seconds, an amalgamation of apologizing for the way things happened last weekend, letting her know I'm thinking of her, and saying "please let me know when you're ready to talk."
Dunno if it was a good idea or not, but in the big question of whether the door is open or not, I at least had my chance to say "Hey, there is a door."
thanks daff0dil and bigv for the longer responses and the reassuring words from others. Sundae Girl, I'm hoping your wrong, but thank you for looking out for the wellbeing of a stranger...time will tell.
And with that, I'm going to go distract myself for the long weekend so I don't sit here trying to rationalize why it'd be ok to call just one more time or whatever.
sometimes people say they want advice, when they really just want to tell you about their problems.
Heh, I was going to say...
You can give all the solicited advice you want, and experience is the hindsight that is 20/20, but until you go through it all yourself all the advice in the world is moot.
yeah...i wasn't complaining about it, btw....if you want to tell us about your difficulties, then cool. many people here will read it all and attempt to commiserate/console/feel you.
I'm not complaining about it either...just pointing out that life's experiences are unique for each of us, and we will all have different perspectives. My perspective is usually that of a hard-case, but what do I know? :)
I wouldn't be so sure he didn't weigh the input before making a decision how to proceed.
I'm glad he was able to make up his mind and do it.
He took action. Whether it was the correct one - who knows? But it was better than doing nothing at all. He has to proceed with his life now. The next move, if there is one, is entirely up to her.
He took action. Whether it was the correct one - who knows? But it was better than doing nothing at all. He has to proceed with his life now. The next move, if there is one, is entirely up to her.
What he said ...
My perspective is usually that of a hard-case, but what do I know? :)
Unless you have a homeless guy mooching off you :)
Which proves your point - it's very different when you are the one in the situation. Life is much less logical once emotions are involved.
Dis - let this draw a line under it, okay?
If she does not answer, don't read any more into it. Painful as it is - excrutiatingly, stomach-punchingly, got you sitting all night at the bar painful, I remember - this is still only temporary. Without further input from her it will very gradually hurt less. Which isn't what you want at all, but is the only consolation I can offer.
sundae girl: I hear you. Let's call it "Nobody gets all the answers they want". It ain't closure, it ain't clarity. But if this is the last interaction, at least I can tell myself that I tried to keep the lines of communication open. She doesn't answer, well, there's not much I can do about that. As it was said well by BigV earlier in the thread, I can't act for both of us.
You can pissed (drunk) with me n watch shitty movies if ya want?
I was freaking out thinking that if I didn't ask soon my chance would be gone.
I've felt this same thing. It's not a good indicator. If a relationship has an imminent expiration date, then you don't want to go down that path. That's starting out with one foot in the grave.
Unless you have a homeless guy mooching off you :)
Which proves your point - it's very different when you are the one in the situation. Life is much less logical once emotions are involved.
Zinngggggg... ;)
So true.
So I allowed myself to call her. It was after she would've been done with work, so it was 50/50 if she'd answer. Ended up leaving a voicemail.
In under 23 seconds, an amalgamation of apologizing for the way things happened last weekend, letting her know I'm thinking of her, and saying "please let me know when you're ready to talk."
Dunno if it was a good idea or not, but in the big question of whether the door is open or not, I at least had my chance to say "Hey, there is a door."
Good for you.
thanks daff0dil and bigv for the longer responses and the reassuring words from others. Sundae Girl, I'm hoping your wrong, but thank you for looking out for the wellbeing of a stranger...time will tell.
You're welcome. I wish you well.
And with that, I'm going to go distract myself for the long weekend so I don't sit here trying to rationalize why it'd be ok to call just one more time or whatever.
This is an OUTSTANDING idea. I hope you don't get this feedback until midweek!
Interesting. Also entertaining. I find it odd that the people with the most "sound advice" are usually the ones from failed relationships.
Carry on.
Well, that would make sense, wouldn't it? I don't have much to add, since the last time I was dumped was in 1991.
Who you going to ask about recovering froma serious accident?
That's right, the chap with the scars.
Now you might not take safety advice from him, or even tips on a good night out, but he knows what he's talking about when it comes to cuts and bruises.
If LJ and Jinx were asking for advice (as if) mine would be noticeable by its absence.
Dis - do I get the feeling you are from this side of the pond? Or is it a holiday for the Merkins this weekend too?
All I remember is looking for love really really sucks. I wasted soooo much time doing that. Its either there or it isnt.
SG, it's Memorial Day on Monday for us merkins. Remember those who made the ultimate sacrifice for citizens and country.
Ah, thank you. We do all that in November, when it's suitably gloomy.
We have a Bank Holiday on Monday because it's the end of May.
It's usually spent complaining about the weather.
So do we, November 11th we honor veterans, but Monday we honor those that died in the wars.
Ah, thank you. We do all that in November, when it's suitably gloomy.
We have a Bank Holiday on Monday because it's the end of May.
It's usually spent complaining about the weather.
And if it's sunny, we spend the entire weekend dicussing the fact that it isn't raining.
Or stuck in traffic, trying to get to some tourist trap on the coast.
memorial day weekend is all about the outdoor pools opening :)
Taking advantage of the drift... we are having cracking Bank Holiday weekend weather. I took some pics with blue sky in to prove it (Aylesbury thread).
I've used the weather to hang out some washing to dry.
Rock and roll lifestyle...damn right.
and here comes the next phase in the stages of loss: hello, anger.
Take that energy and use it constructively. Thats all I can offer. Build something demolish something chop firewood work out... create, destroy, construct or repair. It keeps your mind and body active.
good luck.
In this situation, anger can be good. Its a form of self-preservation for the psyche.
I say grab another pony and saddle up. Don't waste time wanting someone who doesn't want you.
As soon as I think one thing, she sends me a text message out of the blue that makes me reconsider everything I thought I knew.
So I sent her a text at lunch saying "Do you have some free time this weekend so we can meet somewhere to talk?"
Her response was that she was busy, with the added "You need to give me more time and have a little patience."
I don't know what to make of that in the grand scheme of how I'm supposed to live my life, other than "Air traffic control to airplane such-and-such. We're going to need you to stay in a holding pattern for a while." Fuel be damned, right?
I figure the answer is something like "Just try to live normal, if she calls, she calls, deal with that as it happens."
If it's well and truly over, then, I know I'm going to go into a period (of ill-defined length) where dating isn't part of the equation. Granted, I thought this was the one, so ratios with past relationship lengths might not apply, but I'm sticking with my concept of "it'd be ridiculously unfair to drag this shit into a new relationship"
So if she gets back in contact, I'll have to assess that as it is.
If it's well and truly over...
I can help you with that: it is.
You gave it your best shot and she didn't bite. She obviously likes something about you but its not nearly enough for her to commit without reservation. You do not have the strength or the will to break it off and she doesn't have the guts or the decency to cut you loose to recover and move on. So that leaves you in an indefinite emotional holding pattern. You cannot live your life like that.
When a girl won't see you but asks you to be patient, you are dead in the water.
I wish the news were better and I do sympathise - we've all been in that spot and it sucks mastadon balls but there's no escaping the reality of it.
Take the keys away from your heart and give them back to your brain and ignore the pleas coming from the trunk. Make a U-Turn and get the heck outta there.
You will look back on this when you end up with the right girl and say "dayum that would have been a disaster." Trust me on that.
"You need to give me more time and have a little patience."
Translation: "Stand by for me for a while and if things don't work out between me and this other guy, I may use you for fill in again. And stop trying to figure out if it's over or not. I will tell you that when I'm through with you."
What Cap and Beestie said.
I'm sorry to say that I agree with the Cap'n on this one. After reading your last post, all I saw was I'm seeing this other guy and if it doesn't work out maybe I'll give you another shot. Eff that! As Beestie said grab the keys to your life and get away from this "woman" ASAP.
You owe it to her to wait for HER text message welcoming you back into her life...
...at which point you can text back, sorry I'm seeing someone else.
Maybe that woman at work? The one with that sun dress?
ETA: you're being victimized. Text her saying that if she doesn't want to meet with you, you will go ahead with that woman in the sun dress.
Another vote for the "Turn around and run, RUN, run like the wind" treatment here.
"Hang on while I figure this out" always seems to me to mean "Hang on while I justify this to myself and get to feel a little better about dropping you, then I can drop you more comfortably [for me]", even if there isn't anyone else in the wings.
Sorry, disenchanted.
Do other stuff for a while. Be self indulgent in whichever way works for you.
You've seen the movie War Games right? Sometimes the only way to win is not to play the game. I think this is one of those cases. Back away now and save yourself.
Also, try to learn something from this experience. If you didn't see this coming, you didn't know the girl well enough to propose to anyway.
"Till death do us part" is a long time. You want to make sure you're compatible in addition to being in love.
Translation: "Stand by for me for a while and if things don't work out between me and this other guy, I may use you for fill in again. And stop trying to figure out if it's over or not. I will tell you that when I'm through with you."
This was my first thought, too. She is testing out the waters with someone else, I am sure.
I know it is hard to move on, but for your own sanity, you need to. Be done with her.
Her request for more time is a very bad sign for the relationship. It means she's done. If she wanted to marry you, she would have said yes, and been happy and enthusiastic about it and not changed her mind.
She's already given you her answer with this whole crazy affair. Time for you to move on. Don't wait for her any more. In the unlikely event that she comes crawling back to you in a couple months, you can deal deal with it then. But don't wait for it to happen, and don't expect it to happen. It almost certainly will not.
If you didn't see this coming, you didn't know the girl well enough to propose to anyway.
Alternatively, he did see it coming and rushed the proposal to 'lock her in'. That's what it sounds like to me, anyway.
Alternatively, he did see it coming and rushed the proposal to 'lock her in'. That's what it sounds like to me, anyway.
If so, bad idea. Bad, bad, bad.
If that is the case, at least it didn't work. If it had, they would both be miserable in a matter of months.
Not necessarily another man, could be another woman... or group of women, girlfriends saying, "You can do better than him".
It's possible, but I imagine if that were the case, she would not still be stringing him along.
I don't personally think there's anyone else. I think she's just a coward. She knows it's over. But she's not willing to just say that. She's doing that stupid thing where you just wait and maybe you'll feel differently in the morning... except no one ever does. But if she just keeps waiting, maybe you'll get tired of bugging her, and then she won't have to be the bad guy, right?
I'm really sorry things have worked out the way they have, disenchanted. But seriously, listen to what every single person is telling you at this point: it's over. And even if she did come crawling back at some point, you need to have the ability to recognize that this is not, nor will it ever be, the makings of a marriage. Not. At. All. And Beestie's right--you will look back on this when you really meet the right girl and say, "Holy hell, why was it so hard to see what a bad idea that was at the time? I'm so glad I got out of that one."
No matter what her actual intentions are, she's a game player. Surprise me, don't surprise me. I would like to be with you, oh I never want to be with you again, oh maybe if you just wait longer. This is not the stuff of healthy relationships.
at this point, I'm not looking to take heroic measures to save the relationship. I think it's got doom-stank all over it.
But one conversation. Maybe get a few questions answered so they don't have to haunt me, you know?
Granted, I'm oscillating pretty rapidly between wanting clarity and closure, so tomorrow may bring a different opinion.
Oh, and Undertoad, I work with a bunch of engineers, if any of them show up in a sun dress, I'd be running away. ;)
don't bother asking her the questions, here are the answers:
It's not you it's me, I just want something more, something.... else
the time just isn't right for us
I need more time to find myself
no of course there isn't anyone else
i wasn't lying when i said i loved you it's just that....oh i don't know
this is exactly the problem, you just won't give me enough space
here, have a beer and stop being so damn sexist
monster: you missed "It's not that I don't love you, it's just that I'm not in love with you."
i wasn't sure if you were ready for that one...
here, have another beer. it's OK, it's Bud, I'm not trying to get you drunk
Oh, and Undertoad, I work with a bunch of engineers, if any of them show up in a sun dress, I'd be running away. ;)
Yikes! OK trust me on this, eat lunch with the marketing folks from time to time. Marketing chicks know about the importance of quality packaging!
monster: you missed "It's not that I don't love you, it's just that I'm not in love with you."
That's the one the bastardexfiance[spit - ding!] used on me.
I believe in honesty, but I also believe in trying to preserve someone's feelings. Having said that, what does everyone think is a GOOD way to approach blowing someone off? I tried to let a guy down easy once and he was on his knees bawling and begging and I thought "Um, this is part of WHY..."
You can't really say:
1) When you walk into the room, I become very disappointed
2) When you kiss me, I feel I might heave
3) If I hear you say "I seen him/her at the store" one more time I might kill you
4) Sometimes I visibly roll my eyes when the phone rings and I see it's you
Brutal honesty is always best, but there's a fine line between tact and honesty sometimes. Give the girl a break. I would say, however, that "she's just not that into you."
I say this with my usual sarcasm drizzled over truth.
I tried to let a guy down easy once and he was on his knees bawling and begging...
Aw c'mon, just once? :rolleyes:
Yikes! OK trust me on this, eat lunch with the marketing folks from time to time. Marketing chicks know about the importance of quality packaging!
At my last company, it was Finance or Business Development. Yee-haw!
Monster may well be both the funniest dwellar, and the wisest dwellar, all in one.
My apologies if this has already been covered...I've only read page 1 and page 15. I'll be going back to read through pages 2-14, but it's gonna take a while to read everyone's replies and your responses.
Relationships at this stage (preparing for possibility of marriage) should NOT be so hard or require this much work, and if one person is having to do all of the 'work' and/or compromising...it isn't very much of a partnership, IMO.
Get your answers from her if you wish, but cut your losses and run. Myself, I wouldn't even give them the satisfaction of thinking I thought enough of them to even want to know 'why'. It is enough if *I* know it is done. I don't need to give them an opportunity to think they had me so wrapped up in them that I had to keep coming back for 'answers' I already knew.
Best of luck,
hh
The big question for me right now is "So how long would you have me waiting around to see when you're ready to even talk?"
Whether I'm suffering the loss of my life or dodged a bullet is a function that takes the answer to that question as an input.
The answer to that question has been answered repeatedly. Let it go let, cut her loose and move on. There is no point in waiting for her for one more second, she has answered you already.
I think you are addicted to her, Dis. Having withdrawals maybe? Just saying.
I did once have a guy come back and give me the "good reason" four years after he dumped me... Turns out he was gay. Who knew?? :blush:
The big question for me right now is "So how long would you have me waiting around to see when you're ready to even talk?".
Would you also ask "how tight do you need to squeeze the vice on my balls before you're ready to let me go?" or would you just take the vice off yourself and walk away.
you don't need to know how much she intends to torture you -she's already done enough to demonstrate that you're dodging a bullet.
I think Pie's right. she's gay. :D
I don't have the distance from this to be able to see whether or not it's as cut and dried as the popular sentiment would suggest.
But I also know that I spent a lot of time getting to the point that I was. There was a lot of thought behind the idea of "Am I ready to commit myself to this person for life?"
So right now, I'm faced with the question of "Do I move on?" (even knowing that "moving on" doesn't mean "go find a new relationship tomorrow") I'm grappling with the disconnect of "I was ready to give her my life to share. My whole stupid life. What's that mean if two weeks later I'm to walk away from the whole thing?"
I guess for my own satisfaction, I might need to be a torch-bearer for a bit, even if it doesn't amount to anything but prolonging my being screwed up.
I think you are doing an excellent job of staying as level-headed and objective as you can, dis.
I'm grappling with the disconnect of "I was ready to give her my life to share. My whole stupid life. What's that mean if two weeks later I'm to walk away from the whole thing?"
Its not that you are walking away - she is, or rather she has.
I think you are doing an excellent job of staying as level-headed and objective as you can, dis.
I agree completely.
I think Pie's right. she's gay. :D
D'oh! :smack:
I'm grappling with the disconnect of "I was ready to give her my life to share. My whole stupid life. What's that mean if two weeks later I'm to walk away from the whole thing?"
It means you had not completed the vetting process. Like a lab experiment or building a house, expectations rise as you get closer to the end, but nothing is certain until it's completed. It doesn't make you a failure just because it didn't work out.
I think you are doing an excellent job of staying as level-headed and objective as you can, dis.
Its not that you are walking away - she is, or rather she has.
It means you had not completed the vetting process. Like a lab experiment or building a house, expectations rise as you get closer to the end, but nothing is certain until it's completed. It doesn't make you a failure just because it didn't work out.
I agree with these people. Good luck, disenchanted. You seem to me to be a really great guy - I hope you will find a really great woman to share your life with, when you're ready.
Oh and if you have some pent up aggression or whatever.... just visit the politics forum.:right:
Dis, have you found posting your thoughts here helpful at all? On an intrapersonal level if not that you've had some pretty good advice.
aliantha: Most of the advice seems pretty geared toward the negative. It's over. She's probably found some other guy. There's no way to solve this. Go find someone else. Oh, and from earlier in the thread, I'm probably as bad as she thinks I am, if not worse.
Doesn't seem like there's much hope in this crowd, and maybe it's because I still want to hang on to a little of that but don't have the distance to see it. Or, maybe there's a lot of people here that have their own scars...
I guess it's just giving me a chance to work out the daily nonsense without burning out any one person. Crowd therapy.
You've said you thought it through thoroughly and spent a lot of time getting to the point you did in order to ask for the commitment of marriage.
Apparently, she did not put the same effort into her answer.
I think, if I were you, that I would have very serious doubts about a future with this person, even IF she were to change her mind (once again). :headshake
Stormie
dis, I think no matter who you talk to, they'll have scars. I really don't think the people here are anything out of the ordinary.
What makes me think you're probably not going to get lucky and have her running back to you is simply that you seem to be in different places emotionally, and regardless of whether she's the right one for you or not, it's obviously the wrong time for her. I'm not really of the mind that there's someone else. I think there could be many reasons for her not being ready to commit to you, and maybe it'd be nice if she would share those reasons, but it doesn't seem like she's about to so far.
You never know what might happen, but how could you trust what she says in the future after the way she's treated you now? Do you think she'll ever be ready?
I think that's what people have been trying to say.
I know if I'd met my husband even just a few months before I did, we'd never have ended up married because I just wasn't ready then. It can happen like that.
aliantha: It's a salient point, but I started this thread the night after I last saw her and we're at just over the two week point now. The rush to "Yup, she's over you/you should move on" started within hours.
It's not like I sat stewing on this for six months first.
Maybe I'll be more amiable to joining the "move on" crowd at the one month marker.
Fair enough. I think it's fine to give yourself and her some time anyway. From my honest point of view, I think if you ask someone to marry you and they're not ready for it, they probably never will be. I only say this because I think that when you meet that person who's right for you, you just know it almost from the start even if you do take time to actually go through the formalities.
I hope that makes sense. I'll leave you to it now. I think you're doing well. I'm still sorry things didn't work out how you wanted them to. You seem like a really nice man. For what it's worth, she must be crazy not to see that.
dis, why did you post originally? did you want guidance or sympathy? You asked for guidance -we came through. If you just wanted sympathy, you shoud've said....
It is over, you know it now. You surely didn't expect the cellar to sugar-coat that?
And thus is the nature of my hope, right or wrong, it seemed like we were both on track for marriage from a very early state. The more we talked about it and the more we let all those external doubts in, the more complicated it got.
I chose not to mention that she'd turned to her family a few months back, and they piled on all sorts or religious material (catholic, mostly) to get her...er..."prepared"?, and so in January when she said "Hey, it's really important to me that we be chaste from now on until we get married", I said "Ok, I don't understand it, but I'll respect it" (Seriously, I'm supposed to say "Hey, you don't get a say in that.")
I'm having to sort that all out in my head. Various friends, associates and cronies have expressed some shock that I didn't walk away from the relationship then, but I thought I was doing the right thing, and her insistence that we were preparing ourselves through her ritual was part of what made it so easy to blind myself to any negatives.
Granted, significant midstream religious change has already been added to my list of future warning signs, but I had this mountain of "Yeah, this is clear to both of us." which got held back by a sudden "Um...well....let's wait", and then it felt like the tidal wave was back on...of course it was easy to think we'd passed a minor obstacle and were back on track. And as I told Tiki at least a few times in this thread, I really got blinded by that. Avalanche, avalanche, small ridge, avalanche....we broke through some wall to fall off some cliff.
So yeah, I'm having a really hard time with this, and while some of the crowd might be right that she's stringing me along for her convenience, I just want to hang on to it for a bit longer. Because this wasn't a vetting process like some interview. Because this wasn't me trying to trick her into long-term commitment.
I'm a little lost and confused and right now I can't see whether or not leaving a door open or moving on is the best thing to do.
I'm glad that everyone here has offered their opinions. It's well appreciated, even if I've not been agreeable to all of them, and even if I'm still searching for a little more clarity.
monster: I'm just looking for any voice that can help me make sense of this at this point. More guidance than sympathy, I'm just saying the guidance has been largely one-sided. Maybe that means something, maybe I've not given enough background information, I don't know.
Granted, significant midstream religious change has already been added to my list of future warning signs,...
That's more common than you would think and I don't think it's necessarily a red flag, because I've seen it happen several times and after the wedding they just reverted back to their old selves.
I could even be she got cold feet, not about you, but the prospect of the religious aspect her family heaped on the wedding.
well, I guess, in fairness, I didn't really specify much when I said "rough patch". Maybe that'll color things a bit? Maybe it'll give some fodder to tell me I'm blind.
Couple months into the relationship: Some offhand word's got her convinced I'm looking to part ways. I admit to her that I'd been thinking more about a lifetime together. She tells me I should wait at least until the one year mark. Ok, then.
One year mark comes around. She gets a bit tossed during our anniversary date. I take her home and go back to my place. Next morning she shows up early freaked out about how I'm taking that.
A month or so later I figure I'd been asking lots of people about marriage, but not talking much with her about it, and it dawns on me that it'd effect her more than anyone else, so we have a serious conversation.
January hits and she hits me with the "let's be chaste"
March comes along, we go out to dinner for her friend's birthday. Some guy is hitting on her. I'm uncomfortable, but amongst all her friends, decide that she can stand up for herself and I'll not be the loudmouthed jerk. On the drive home, she indicates I chose wrong. Day later, we're talking and I ask if it bugged her so much, why did she keep talking to the guy? Argument.
Don't talk much for the rest of the week. Meet up that weekend, talk some things out. Marriage is mentioned again in passing.
Things get better, for a time.
Stupid arguments start becoming more frequent. She doesn't come over to my place anymore, citing the chastity thing and "temptation"
Serious conversations happening all the time now. She finally tells me that she doesn't want to go on the weekend away that we'd been planning as "THE WEEKEND", says it was like we'd broken up a few weeks ago and were just dealing with the aftermath. I tell her "What if we take the pressure off the table and just have a nice weekend away?"
Suddenly things are like the best of times again. I get stupid. I'm on the phone with my friends every day trying to figure out what to do. All pieces of advice sound good. Freak out thinking that I should just go through with it and stop whining so much.
And here we are.
That'll probably reinforce some opinions that it's time to move on. It's just hard for me to see that right now. Maybe I missed something. Maybe it's some dumb test to see if I can give her her space. I just don't know.
I don't like to get to involved in relationship reading. Wtf am I to know about successful/unsuccessful relationships, right? But, I have to say, my hackles rise reading this one. She sounds either confused (run, run for the hills) or a games player (run even faster). Dis, I don't know you. And no matter what you type here, there is no way you can ever fully explicate what went on, not in this medium. So, please forgive me if this out of line:
You deserve better than this. She has played (consciously, or unconsciously) on your emotional state in an extremely controlling way. You got it wrong at the party? Sounds like you assessed that she was amongst friends and could handle herself. If she was having difficulty with the guy she coulld have easily moved across to where you were in the room full of people. You failed a test, clearly. Tests are like that. They're testing. Do you really want to live under constant testing? Perhaps she wanted you to be jealous? Well, jealousy feels awful. Why would she want you to feel awful? Perhaps she wanted your protection. But, from what? Must you always be on guard for non-dangerous threats which might provoke this need? The end result, whatever the nature of the test, is that the person being tested is regulating their behaviour and responses to accord with the other person's plan. A party is supposed to be a pleasant and relaxing thing. Convivial and fun. Not an assault course or an examination.
The onus on you to fall in with changing expectations is not fair. Nor is it conducive to an emotionally equal relationship. It is, unfortunately, the basis of a lot of relationships. At some point the person being tested has to make a choice. Either they dig in their heels and say, this is who I am; these are my natural and instinctive responses, take it or leave it....or they must alter who they are and establish new patterns and responses in line with the other person's expectations.
Be careful with yourself Dis. Be wary of giving up yourself in order to gain someone who will absorb you. You are worth more than that.
I've already voted game player, but I'm willing to consider batshit insane. Batshit religious insanity is still batshit insanity.
Physical intimacy forges a tighter emotional bond. Lack of it tears a couple apart. To suggest you should not be intimate is a deep betrayal to the relationship.
It also suggests that she is not capable of serious intimacy. It's not that she's not that into you -- she's not that into anybody.
How is her relationship with her father?
Very good reply Dana, you should delve into this stuff more often..
Dis - One piece of information I haven't seen. How old are you guys? From your last two posts she seems emotionally immature, but then again, I'm an old fart.
thanks Bruce. I missed that. Seems about right. She is not mature enough. I know some people her age who are more into partying and that whole scene. Could be she just isn't ready to settle down, afraid of the totality and finality of marriage, getting overwhelmed by the thoughts of marriage/house/kids..... The influence of her family and their religious views/customs/expectations...
All that being said. I'd still walk. She seems to be jerkin your chain.
Lemme put it this way. Focus on you and your life and what you enjoy and all that for a bit. Just get in tune with "you."
This is much more clear than a "rough patch" to me. When you wrote you had a rough patch it could have ranged from anything from "I beat her" to "we both had the flu and it made us ornery" to "Working out cold feet"
What you are describing is a recipe for failure. I know. I know. I am coming off as one of the many nay sayers in this group, but I'll clarify:
Why I understand the request for chastity was based on some deeply held religious beliefs, and, most likely, a healthy dose of guilt, it strikes me as a very bad idea. I agree that physical intimacy creates bonds hard to describe or quantify. A brief break from sex in a relationship can stoke a fire or make things more exciting. But I think a long break from intimacy when intimacy was previously had just causes tension, confusion and in the end eliminates one of the main bonding activities a couple engage in, with frequency.
I am going to be generous and assume her desire to pursue this path with you was of pure intention, with the intent to make your eventual nuptuals more "special". It was probably not meant to be a game or a tactic.
But in the end I suspect this change created a mounting wall of tensions that could not be dispelled and probably hurt way more than it helped.
I also suspect that this girl is insanely confused and incapable, at the moment, of really knowing what she wants and believes.
She is a romantic, as well, from what you describe, which can beautiful, but also can create difficult and volatile situations.
I guess what I am trying to say is: You need to take a long long time to say goodbye. This will be true whether she provides perfect closure or never speaks to you again. I am of the mind that this girl, while possibly right for you in some ways, is not ready for commitment in any way. That being said, I am also of the mind that this probably will not pan out the way you wish it to.
But that doesn't mean, 2 weeks after the end, you have to be ready to move on. Ofcourse you aren't. Hold tight, process on your own, if you can afford it, maybe see a relationship therapist on your own to process your feelings so that you can move on to your next relationship with less baggage, or in the event this pans out in some way, work with her in ways that provide clarity and avoid this outcome again.
My final thought is also this: when you posted your initial posts things were too fresh. I suspect you were looking for absolution and a certain level of reassurance that you had done all you could and that she might come back to you.
Nothing is ever as cut and dried as that.
So here is my version of that, as this situation is still super fresh.
You acted like a human being in love with someone who had mounting levels of confusion presenting. You wanted to believe that if she saw how good you were together (on your weekend, which seemed to be going well) that realization would overpower her intense confusion and make her ready for marriage, but it didn't.
I think, very simply, it wowed her with it's romance (did I mention she was romantic) but once that overwhelming moment was gone, it also made her finally realize how very not ready for marriage she was.
I'd like to believe that this understanding, coupled with the realization that you were very ready, was probably the impetus to break it off, ultimately. That while she might have felt betrayed or blindsighted, what she really felt was shock and fear that she was involved with someone she loved but would continuously hurt if she stayed involved with them.
There.
Doesn't seem like there's much hope in this crowd, and maybe it's because I still want to hang on to a little of that but don't have the distance to see it. Or, maybe there's a lot of people here that have their own scars...
It's because we all forget. Everyone can look back in their lives and see their own scars, and see how your situation is similar. We all forget just how blinding and hard it was to be in the situation at the time, so the advice given may come off as callous and too cut-and-dried. But even if everyone gave their advice as gently as possible, it wouldn't change the content of it.
Look at it this way: it's not that all of us want to crush all your hopes and dreams--it's that no one here has ever had an experience like yours that went on to become a successful and happy marriage. Like, if someone asked for advice over whether or not to date a coworker, a good number of people would say, "oh HELL no, that's a terrible idea," but at least a few would pipe up and say, "Hey, it worked for me and my spouse, happily married now for X years." Each of us is only providing advice based on what we've experienced in our individual lives. And if no one in a board with thousands of mature, rational adults has ever had a positive anecdote of this nature to encourage you with... well, that's the trend you're trying to interpret, isn't it?
Clodfobble, daff0dil: I hear that. Already it's getting hard to process the good times in light of the wounds (scars to come, I'm sure.) I'm supposed to keep waiting here, for what? Urgh...maybe I don't like that line of thinking just yet. But it's been made clear to me that I'm supposed to do something. What that is, not so clear. She was always very forceful about how she wasn't into tests. "The relationship is the test.", she'd say. The longer the strife went on, the more it felt like her admonitions to that regard weren't sitting right. It might not have been "a test", but it sure came across as one.
So now, I don't have the answers, I'm somewhere between feeling like that stupid kid in class that realizes the test was real and should've been paying closer attention, and some hazy idea of "Wait a second, why the hell am I being tested at all?" There's probably a third (or more) option, but I know I already failed one of her big tests: During one of the serious conversations, she asked if I believed her that she'd never test me, and I wasn't able to give a clear and honest answer. (This failure of certainty was brought up again at a later serious conversation.)
Tonight's new idea is "Holy $#!^, I've ended up in the same relationship again. Someone that's still not quite sure if they could live their life this way, and will (sooner, this time) get busy in the interest of reinventing themselves! Crap!" I'll have to examine that a bit. I'm still reacting to that idea right now. (This isn't sour grapes, but on the surface, there's something that doesn't sit well with someone who on our first date pointed to a building and said "On that roof is the strangest place I ever had sex!" or "Oh, I had counted wrong, you're actually my 21st!"....and then later deciding chastity suited herself better religiously. It's like I got walked into (or caused, who knows) the last day of her "Catholic Girls Gone Bad" period.
Undertoad: Her relationship with her father is crap. I can't blame her for that, as my relationship with my father is crap, but I can see how that doesn't necessarily mean the same thing. I will say that in the latter days, she was more and more upset whenever I'd become exasperated with my father.
All: Thank you all for the replies. I've kind of monopolized the section for the past couple weeks, and I appreciate the input, even if I'm still a little lost. I'm going to go reread the thread myself to see what today's perspective on things changes what any of you had said prior.
As for the last test, I don't know. Am I supposed to pursue her and win her back? Am I supposed to give her the space that she wants? I don't know, but if she was right that "The relationship is the test", then what's it say that she was ready to walk away first?
As was said before, the one who loves least controls the relationship. Truth, there. But if she's in control and I'm supposed to act next, then Undertoad (and others) are right that she's nothing but playing games.
I'm sure I'll be bugging you all with my loneliness and screwed up self-confidence soon enough, but I'm having a harder and harder time seeing that there's anything left to wait for.
but I know I already failed one of her big tests: During one of the serious conversations, she asked if I believed her that she'd never test me, and I wasn't able to give a clear and honest answer. (This failure of certainty was brought up again at a later serious conversation.)
My reading : Test: say you believe me when I say I will never test you.
If my reading is correct, there is NO POSSIBLE way to answer this without calling her a liar. In fact, the very question shows she is, frankly, nuts. It looks like manipulation for the power thrill, putting you in an impossible situation to watch you twist desperately to find a way of answering without either lying or hurting her.
I've kind of monopolized the section for the past couple weeks,
No problem, we need things to talk about, if we'd got bored we would have just stopped posting. It's your thread. (except the drift bits, but you get that).
I actually dropped past to post, maybe the reason she said she "couldn't marry you" was due to family pressure to marry someone of the "right" religion. But, reading more, I doubt that.
And anyway, the more I read, the more I think you've dodged a major bullet. More of a white phosphorus grenade really, this one would burn for years if it got in any deeper.
Dr Zengum (a notorious quack, BTW) recommends you delete her number from your phone, remove all traces of her from your home, spend a month or two resolutely single, then with luck, hook up with some other woman - maybe some previous ex-girlfriend, or some new acquaintance - for a quick fling.
If you find yourself wondering about How Things Might Have Been, read Big Sarge's update thread. I reckon you have got off lightly.
I don't know, but if she was right that "The relationship is the test", then what's it say that she was ready to walk away first?
She = Fail.
As was said before, the one who loves least controls the relationship. Truth, there. But if she's in control and I'm supposed to act next, then she's playing games.
You are seeing the light now. Good sign. continue.
I'm having a harder and harder time seeing that there's anything left to wait for.
There isn't, the truth is slowly seeping in...another good sign.
Hang in there - it gets better.
...she is, frankly, nuts.
...It looks like manipulation
...I think you've dodged a major bullet.
...spend a month or two resolutely single...
If you find yourself wondering, read Big Sarge's update thread.
You got off lightly.
I know I already failed one of her big tests: During one of the serious conversations, she asked if I believed her that she'd never test me, and I wasn't able to give a clear and honest answer. (This failure of certainty was brought up again at a later serious conversation.)
Whoa. ZenGum already covered this better than I can, but that's just not right. Not only did she test you, but she brings it up at future dates to rub your nose in it?
Well count me as pop psychologist #423, but her relationship with her father is the basis for her relationship with all men until she has a good bit of life behind her (and maybe not even then)
If she has a loving caring dad, who plays with her and hugs her and is happy for her, she has normal healthy relationships. If there was a lot of chaos in her house, then she will be inclined to create chaos where there is none. If dad beats her, she may become sullen and withdrawn. If dad beats mom, she may become angry with all men. If dad sexually abuses her, she may become a stripper. If dad emotionally abuses her, she may become bulimic, or a "cutter". And so on.
If dad is loving at Christmas, but shitty the rest of the time, maybe she becomes that testing person, wondering whether there is love and endlessly testing for it.
She doesn't even know she's doing it, because it's "normal" for her.
Not only did she test you, but she brings it up at future dates to rub your nose in it?
That is no way to live...in fact, it's horrible. It's not love, and it's not respect.
I take back that she just couldn't let you down easily. ;)
Listen to what you hear, here. A lifetime of reliving every little thing you've done or said "wrong" isn't what you want or need. It's not for anyone. Been there, done that...after time it really messes you up.
A lifetime of reliving every little thing you've done or said "wrong" isn't what you want or need. It's not for anyone. Been there, done that...after time it really messes you up.
Yeh really - look at all of us.
...if dad emotionally abuses her, she may become bulimic, or a "cutter"....
OR a promiscuous drug abuser! don't forget that one!
Or if Dad is loving and caring, but stepdad is an emotioally abusive dick, she may spend her early relationships in constant terror that the seemingly loving, caring boyfriend in front of her will suddenly turn out to be an abusive dick in disguise, and will shield herself accordingly.
[size=1]You know, hypothetically speaking.[/size]
Part of me wants to move forward, part of me thinks there's still something to hold on to.
Her "give me more time and have a little patience" thing tells me either she thinks I'll eventually forget to call (or more precisely, putting it off until some later point at her convenience), wants to see how long I'd stick around, or wants to keep me around for some reason. The last one sounds the closest to positive, and even it doesn't sound that good.
So now I've got to figure out how to move on. I've just got this itchy sense that it's not terribly noble to let go yet.
...or she wants to keep you around as insurance (plan B) just in case studly do-right doesn't fall for her BS like you did.
classicman: yeah, I was kind of alluding to that possibility (even if it's some future studly do-right) as the last reason.
I'm a little mixed up right now. Many signs point to "Just let go already so you can mourn and heal!" and I can't tell if my reluctance is born of doing the right thing, or playing the martyr.
Nobility has no place in this. Now is the time to foster self-preservation.
Hey dis, are you a pack-rat by nature? a hoarder? I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just curious...
Used to be...after the previous relationship went south and I found myself carrying armfuls of crap out to the dumpster, I've been a lot more selective about how much stuff I keep around.
Why do you ask?
because I'm a packrat type and way back when I was dating I found the clean break thing hard
I think this is less me being sentimental and more being a romantic sap. It's hard to let go after spending so much time soul-searching trying to figure out if she was the right one.
But, I've got creeping thoughts around the periphery like "You sure it's not because you hope she comes back and you can be happy so you don't have to take all those dating risks again?"
dis, I think if you have to do soul searching to figure out if she's the right one, maybe she's not.
Of course, this is coming from someone who was engaged twice before being married on the third go. lol
I was the one kid in elementary school whose parents were divorced. It was something I grew up with and a central theme to a lot of my early life. So I told myself "If I'm going to go down that road, I'm going to do it right, and hopefully only once."
So in that context, I thought serious consideration was necessary first, and I don't think it's that much of a symptom for the way this one went down. (Though maybe a symptom of my greater sense of being screwed-up in relationships in general.)
because I'm a packrat type and way back when I was dating I found the clean break thing hard
heheheee, I'm a packrat because I'm lazy and I hate anything domestic-like. :p
Seriously, I still have boxes of crap at my ex-h's house. Eh...it'll keep. When I die it will be a veritable treasure trove of college papers, pictures, cookbooks (double HA)...put it all in a time capsule and let the people of the future know that we didn't have a Rosie the Robot to clean up after our dumbasses!
ssssshhhhh. people will cotton on it's my undomesticity rather than eccentricity -I think I currently still have them fooled. a little.
heheheee, I'm a packrat because I'm lazy and I hate anything domestic-like. :p
Seriously, I still have boxes of crap at my ex-h's house. Eh...it'll keep. When I die it will be a veritable treasure trove of college papers, pictures, cookbooks (double HA)...put it all in a time capsule and let the people of the future know that we didn't have a Rosie the Robot to clean up after our dumbasses!
lol. We musthave been separated at birth.
So dis...how're things going for you now?
I've not heard anything from her.
I'm currently working on the "Grand Unified Theory of [strike]WTF?[/strike] What Happened", and I think my current working model is this:
Her parents' relationship is screwed up. Her mother dealt with it by being super-religious, her father dealt with it by starting a different family. Even though she's getting close to 30, her longest romantic relationship before this one was six months. As much as she's got herself convinced that she understands everything, I'm of the mind that there's some things you just can't read from books, you've got to live them.
Not that I'm any sort of expert, but it's one thing to read about love and another to experience it.
So the big theory right now is this: She didn't understand how the relationship would change once she broached the idea of being chaste. So while I was thinking we were working towards one thing, I became "just a friend" in her mind. So faced with the solidity of a proposal, she freaks out thinking about being committed to "just a friend", and retreats. Her primary source of advice being her mother (who hasn't really had much in the way of adult relationships outside of being committed to her religious belief) and her divorced friends, I'm sure it's been tilted towards not actually communicating.
But I don't know, not having heard anything, I'm filling in with speculation.
For me, I started the countdown clock. I'm going to be a weird guy for a bit, and maybe at the end of the summer I'll think about dating again. It's a good time for me to clean my own house.
-dis
Well hang in there dis. Sounds like you're doing ok, and that's good.
Maybe you could try
redecorating.
zengun: clearly, because I need to find ways to be more repellent towards other people =)
Yeah, not exactly a chick-magnet babe-lair, is it?
Au contraire, what you need is a harem. :haha:
Hey, dis! I'll be thinking of you.
[COLOR="White"](When you're finished at your place, do you want to come over and clean up mine (nothing improper here, just cleaning on offer!).[/COLOR]
Be good to yourself!
Be well Dis. Time will take you far from this.
I've not heard anything from her.
-dis
I think the silence is deafening actually. She is saying an awful lot by not saying anything. If she really cared would she leave you hanging in some sort of sick limbo like this for all this time? Would she let you dangle there knowing how you feel?
I think she is clearly saying that she doesn't care enough to cut you loose and allow you to heal and move on.
Thats what I hear, but as my tag line says...
"Hey, my views aren't popular, they're just mine."
I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think you're the only one she's stringing along. Been there. Been done like that. Learned fairly quickly. A one lesson course, so to speak. Graduated at the head of my class.
I've not heard anything from her.
Lucky you. She must have found some other guy willing to let her drag him face down through the mud.
For some girls, that's their idea of a relationship.
beestie, capnhowdy: I guess that's what's changing in me. Not so much a "Gosh, I hope she hasn't found some other guy", but a "I hope I learn from this, whatever it was."
beestie, capnhowdy: I guess that's what's changing in me. Not so much a "Gosh, I hope she hasn't found some other guy", but a "I hope I learn from this, whatever it was."
We all hope so too. Life is too short to go thru that shit twice.
She sounds broken. Don't waste anymore time or energy thinking about what went wrong. Put your energy into fixin yourself and get back out there.
Trust me I am a doctor.
So I was sitting at a coffeehouse this morning reading a book, looked up and saw an attractive lady in a sundress walk by. So I smiled at her and thought of this place.
A brief update:
I bought a bicycle a couple weeks ago and have been riding like a fiend. 30 miles this weekend alone. I figure I've spent enough of my life sitting on the couch, plus it gives me time to think and an outlet for all the emotional crap that's been stirring. Besides, what's the worst that can happen, I get in shape?
I've not heard from the ex, nor have I tried talking to her. I'm moving on with my life.
Thanks to all of you for the words.
-dis
Good for you, dis. You'll do just fine.
Thanks for the update.
Yep. You got it now. Good luck. Keep us posted.
post a picture of yourself
Oh no, now you're going to have to put up with those bicycle groupies. :haha:
Oh no, now you're going to have to put up with those bicycle groupies. :haha:
Well, I guess that does explain why Lumberjim wants me to post a picture.
Oh no, now you're going to have to put up with those bicycle groupies. :haha:
Well, I guess that does explain why Lumberjim wants me to post a picture.
:biglaugha
Good for you dis. Sounds like you're heading in the right direction now.
I think LJ's more into kayakers.
Good stuff dis. Well on the road to recovery :)
I'm not dead yet. Talked with the person that caused me to spawn this thread a couple times since. Didn't change my resolve to move on.
Happy now, even though life has thrown me a curve ball and I'm looking to walk away from my job and move out of state blind if it means getting out of a rut I've been in too long. Embrace change, yeah?
Anyhow, I appreciate the words of advice (even the ones I didn't agree with) back then. Thanks, all.
-dis
Hey, dis! Good to see you back!
Hi disenchanted--
Thanks for the progress report, always good to hear from not dead yet people. Change is hard (I know you know, I'm just commiserating). Though you launched this thread from painful circumstances, I'd be happy to hear from you in other threads about your other circumstances. "Walking away from a job"... wow, that sounds pretty huge. Care to share?
BigV: 2010 was a weird year. Got in trouble with the law and I'm still dealing with the aftermath of that (I've been told it's rather common and innocuous, but I'm big on personal accountability, so I got myself into this mess, it's up to me to deal with it. Couple more months and the worst will be done.) Rekindled a friendship that goes back 20 years. Once spurned by her, it turns out there is a romantic side as well...she knows the worst about me and accepts it. Been taking a hard look at my life and I've decided that this cycle of wake up, go to work, come home, lather, rinse, repeat needs a little disruption. Scary to walk away from a routine? Sure. I just don't want to wake up in 50 years to realize I could've done more.