dar512 • Apr 9, 2009 11:31 am
I find this worrisome.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2009-04-08-power-grid-hackers_N.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2009-04-08-power-grid-hackers_N.htm
xoxoxoBruce;554399 wrote:It's going to take an act of congress, literally, to protect us.
IT IS midnight on 22 September 2012 and the skies above Manhattan are filled with a flickering curtain of colourful light. Few New Yorkers have seen the aurora this far south but their fascination is short-lived. Within a few seconds, electric bulbs dim and flicker, then become unusually bright for a fleeting moment. Then all the lights in the state go out. Within 90 seconds, the entire eastern half of the US is without power.
A year later and millions of Americans are dead and the nation's infrastructure lies in tatters. The World Bank declares America a developing nation. Europe, Scandinavia, China and Japan are also struggling to recover from the same fateful event - a violent storm, 150 million kilometres away on the surface of the sun.
Nice grammar you idiot (stated in a tone only you understand).Not that I care. A wacko like you are so critical of other's grammar when you cannot even write to meet your own wacko standards. Meanwhile, does not matter if you posted. You admit to thinking extremist fears anyway.classicman;554402 wrote:Extremely, I saw this days ago, but didn't post it as I have been labeled and extremist.
wackoboy is a teenager so extremist as to subvert another topic. The topic is the grid. Some only fear enemies hiding everywhere to kill us all. So extremists as to hype hate, fear, and myths. So trivial is the threat. So different is its source. Where does wackoboy post any facts on the topics? Instead wackoboy must again attack one who exposes his myths justified by extremism.wackoboy;554485 wrote:tommy boy . . . you still haven't responded to this or this
"Their foreign intelligence service has been probing our computers, our defense computers, our defense contractors, our power grids, our telephone system. ... I just came from a speech at the national defense university and they were hit by the Chinese trying to get into their systems," Baer said.
"They are testing and have gotten in portals. It's a serious threat."
President Obama has started a 60-day review of all the nation's efforts at cybersecurity...
The Defense Department said last year that military installations are "highly vulnerable" to threats to the grid.
How do you do that? How do you routinely disbelieve yourself? What page of the wacko extremist handbook tells you how to do that?classicman;554528 wrote:I think I'll take the opinions of those who actually know something about this than some blowhard on the internet.
Bullshit. Without going into a long, boring explanation, suffice it to say that there is no way you can tell which country the hackers are coming from. For example, someone in the US could route the hack through a Chinese state computer to make it look like China was behind it. I wouldn't even put the US Government past doing that for political ends.classicman;554528 wrote:Former CIA operative Robert Baer:
...from a speech at the national defense university and they were hit by the Chinese ...
xoxoxoBruce;554399 wrote:What pisses me off is the electric companies, having be given the monopoly that has made them rich, won't do this on there own. It's going to take an act of congress, literally, to protect us. WTF?
So read what is written:classicman;554869 wrote:Excellent link Flint, thanks.
am a retired engineer, formerly employed by 2 electric utilities ... So I (think) I know a little about SCADA systems and how they operate.How can this be if enemies are lurkering everywhere as classicman says?
EVERY SCADA system that I have ever seen use its own dedicated communication network to carry data between the Master Station (the “base”), and the substation Remote Terminal Units (RTU’s) and with the powerplants. The Master Station is manned 24 hours per day, seven days per week, 52 weeks per year. In other words, ALL THE TIME. So if something happens, the knowledgeable, experienced operator can take immediate steps to counteract the event.
Beestie;554597 wrote:Bullshit. Without going into a long, boring explanation, suffice it to say that there is no way you can tell which country the hackers are coming from. For example, someone in the US could route the hack through a Chinese state computer to make it look like China was behind it. I wouldn't even put the US Government past doing that for political ends.
I respectfully disagree.TheMercenary;555189 wrote:With all due respect you are quite wrong.
I am interested - just pick the top one or two in the interest of time.TheMercenary;555230 wrote:I could reference them if you are interested.
tw;555023 wrote:
Reality: risks to the grid are typically traceable to companies with a history of bad management. One company that has long been a concern is First Energy whose president (Anthony Alexander) did not even know how the grid works. Who was even in Seaside Heights NJ blaming those local blackouts on the township - and then the lights went out again while he was speaking.
The real risk to the grid are companies that do not implement industry standard practices...
classicman;555594 wrote:So what you are saying is that the answer to almost ever discussion on the board is more Gov't control.
Redux;555595 wrote:Not quite.
I am saying that there are areas in which government regulation (not the same as government control) would, IMO, be more effective than relying on the private sector ("free market") participation in voluntary guidelines.
National security issues relating to the nation's infrastructure would be one of those areas.
Wall Street (banking/financial services) is another...as are environmental protection, food safety.....
TheMercenary;555613 wrote:AKA, Big Government = Better.
Redux;555617 wrote:Not exactly.
Reasonable government regulation = better than voluntary industry compliance in essential services to protect the health and welfare of the citizens.
TheMercenary;555619 wrote:Previous attempts at that have created big bloated bureaucracies, inefficiency, and cost over-runs. Sorry, I don't buy into that.
Time will tell with the intervention and take over of the numerous banking, credit, and insurance sectors, and now with the auto industry. But they have failed miserably in health care.
Redux;555623 wrote:It succeeded with protecting the environment. It succeeded with protecting food and drug safety. It succeeded with ensuring workplace safety and basic workers rights....
And no one is talking about government "taking over" anything for the long term.
It is fear mongering to compare government regulation with government take-over or government control.
TheMercenary;555625 wrote:... It is not fear mongering when you watch as the Government slowly takes over or gains influence over the major banking, credit, and lending aspects of the private industry while it bankrupts our grandchildren's future with deficit spending.
Certainly.Redux;555638 wrote:A case could be made that if not for the deregulation of banking/financial services by Reagan/Clinton/Bush....perhaps we would not be in this mess where even more stringent short term measures were deemed by many to be needed to right the ship.and those additional deficits avoided.
And government regulation still does not equal government control.It depends. When the government has the power to dismiss a major US car maker and it controls a major portion of our banking, insurance, and credit market, I would disagree.
xoxoxoBruce;555658 wrote:You can't blame the government for that, it's the result of those industries fucking up bigtime, because nobody regulated (controlled) them. Now the government has to step in and straighten out the mess, which is hardly what the government wanted.
They may, or may not, fail in the future, but they were paid for what they produced in the past. I'm sure some will fold, some will survive by changing their product line, and some will continue to make autoparts, but at least they're starting into the future without being in an impossible hole.TheMercenary;555666 wrote:Well now that bankruptcy looks more inevitable what about their hundreds of suppliers and all those small/medium businesses? Isn't much of that going to happen anyway?
I think they are talking about eliminating either the Chevy or GMC line of trucks, which were identical except for trim anyway. I can't imagine not having the choice between 2 or 4 wheel drive, that would suck. Eliminating the choice of 2 or 4 door, maybe. Long or short bed, probably.
I watched an interview with the interm CEO and he said they are going to produce only one pick-up truck in all of the GM family. That alone is huge. Not to mention re-tooling costs, etc. Not to say it is not an inevitable evil anyways, just that we poured billions of tax payer $$ into a hole that would never have been saved in the first place. I don't know. But I am not happy about it.
The longer that GM puts off the inevitable, the worse a bankruptcy becomes. Had GM done bankruptcy in 1991 (they were only 4 hours away), then GM may have fixed itself back then. Nobody (except executives) were harmed. But GM played money games for almost 20 years to avoid bankruptcy rather than fix the company. Even shorted the pension funds; then claimed unfair competition due to legacy costs. As a result, bankruptcy becomes almost inevitable and must now be quite painful.TheMercenary;555666 wrote:Well now that bankruptcy looks more inevitable what about their hundreds of suppliers and all those small/medium businesses?
Government intervention and regulations are directly traceable to how that corporation or industry was run. Some industries must be heavily regulated due to their history. Others that have a long history of innovation - that are more interested in the product than profits - require minimal if any regulation. Learn from history. Finance industry and auto industries deserve heavy regulation according to their history. Auto no where near as stringent as finance. Finance industry historically being one of the most corrupt requires the heaviest of hands. Semiconductor an example of a resposibile industry that requires so little government oversight.Undertoad;555671 wrote:Government intervened to create the public corporation, so I see it as a wash when government intervenes in the operation of such.
Redux;555297 wrote:I think that pretty much sums it up.
IMO, the greatest failure of the last eight years in the area of national security was the near total lack of focus on securing the critical infrastructure - electric grid, water treatment facilities, nuclear plants, etc.
The failure resulted from a total reliance on voluntary compliance by the private industries in question...another failure of the free market that put profit above national security.
I would hope to see more federal spending and more mandatory infrastructure security requirements implemented.
Redux;555623 wrote:It succeeded with protecting the environment. It succeeded with protecting food and drug safety and other consumer products. It succeeded with ensuring workplace safety and basic workers rights. It succeeded with ensuring the safe transportation of hazardous material by rail or truck as well as airline passenger safety (I could go on) ....to no detriment of the regulated industries.
And no one is talking about government "taking over" anything for the long term.
It is fear mongering to compare government regulation with government take-over or government control.
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Thousands of confidential files on the U.S. military's most technologically advanced fighter aircraft have been compromised by unknown computer hackers over the past two years, according to senior defense officials.
The Internet intruders were able to gain access to data related to the design and electronics systems of the Joint Strike Fighter through computers of Pentagon contractors in charge of designing and building the aircraft, according to the officials, who did not want to be identified because of the sensitivity of the issue.
In addition to files relating to the aircraft, hackers gained entry into the Air Force's air traffic control systems, according to the officials. Once they got in, the Internet hackers were able to see such information as the locations of U.S. military aircraft in flight.
The Joint Striker Fighter plane is the military's new F-35 Lightning II. It designed to become the aircraft used by all of the branches of service.
Most of the files broken into focused on the design and performance statistics of the fighter, as well as its electronic systems, officials said. The information could be used to make the plane easier to fight or defend against.
Additionally, the system used by the aircraft to conduct self-diagnostics during flight was compromised by the computer intrusions, according to the officials.