CyberBully
Thousands turn to cyberbully site
A new website set up to help people being cyberbullied has already prompted tens of thousands of children to look for help.
Cybermentors.org.uk is thought to be the first website in the world where help for victims comes from others their own age through instant messaging and online videos.
Newsbeat went to meet 13-year-old Georgia Woods who, with her mobile phone, laptop and the cuddly toys on her bed is like most other girls her age.
But six months ago it was a different story when she was being picked on by cyberbullies through her mobile, by email and on websites.
She said: "You don't feel like you're safe anywhere. You come home and they can still contact you.
"You go out with your friends and they can still get to you. It made me feel worthless and so down I even thought about taking my own life."
And it wasn't just Georgia's life that was affected, Sarah-Jane's mum felt the pressure too.
She said: "It makes you cry. My whole world, and her dad's, just fell apart."
More than 23,000 people have now logged on to the website.
A series of graphic adverts illustrating teen suicide are also being launched to warn of the dangers of cyberbullying.
Somebody call the Whaaambulance!
Somebody call the Whaaambulance!
Clearly you were never bullied, or at least not by a girl. Girl bullying is
completely different from boy bullying.
You know, anything that will eliminate bullies in the world is fine by me. Bullies suck. And kids are fragile little creatures.
Fuck classic, they're kids. Kids being bullied and made to feel shit about themselves. Whaaambulance indeed. *rolls eyes*
Clearly you were never bullied, or at least not by a girl. Girl bullying is completely different from boy bullying.
Oh really? please share
Fuck classic, they're kids. Kids being bullied and made to feel shit about themselves. Whaaambulance indeed. *rolls eyes*
the Whaaambulance was for her mother's comment.
She said: "It makes you cry. My whole world, and her dad's, just fell apart."
I think thats being A LOT dramatic. But ...
Then you clearly havent been parent to a child whose entire childhood is being blighted by something you are powerless to effect. You don't think watching your child shrink into a shadow of herself and start to want to die might break your heart a little? Really?
I know my mum had sleepless night and sleepless night and I know her heart broke for me a thousand times. Christ, her and dad spent more time in my fucking school than I did some years.
some folks are out there LOOKING to be victims.
just sayin'
I'm with lj. Teach your children to be strong, assertive, and eloquent. If a bully persists, teach them to punch their lights out.
No one has to be a victim if they know the best way out.
Its a fine line....I'm trying desperately to not raise nancy boys, but I am also aware of them going the other way and becoming bullies themselves.
Little turds didnt come with instruction manuals
I'm with lj. Teach your children to be strong, assertive, and eloquent. If a bully persists, teach them to punch their lights out.
No one has to be a victim if they know the best way out.
Not that easy. I did that whole 'face the bully' stuff as a kid. One time having been bullied by a local girl for ages, aftre one occasion when she'd pushed me over or some such, my mum sent me back out the house with these words:
"Get out there and hit her back, or I'll hit you"
She never would have. It was absolute frustration on her part. I did go out and got into a fight with that girl.
That's fine and dandy and works great at 8 years old.
Secondary school is different. No matter how many of those lessons get taught, there is very little you can do if you've been ostracised by every other child in 1200 strong school. There's very little you can do as a parent to stop the hurt when your child is being harrassed and bullied by a gang of kids.
Girls in particular at secondary school age are vicious. I am a tough character. Part of the reason I am quite tough is that I experienced bullying of a magnitiude most people cannot imagine. Years of it. But they couldnt follow me home. Once I stepped into my house that's it they couldnt touch me. The idea that the twats could have followed me into the cybersphere wold be hideous.
The child has my sympathy as does her mother. This is a serious situation. There are a lot of kids driven to suicide or unhappniess by bullshit like this.
Another quick thought.
Being bullied isn't just emotionally distressing it also impacts on your self-confidence and self-image. It makes you feel weak, like a failure. You dont want to tell anyone because that just exposes how weak and unable to cope you are. The victim begins to believe they deserve it in some way: either they're so thick, ugly, unlovable, weak 'bullyable'. Telling someone about it is like confessing to something you've done.
Attitudes like the ones expressed in this thread, by adults shows me that people still don't really understand how distressing and destructive it is, there is still a negative attitude towards the victims of bullying: theybring it on themselves by being weak. I realise that's not specifically whats been said, but its clearly the implication. Some people just want to be victims? And if you only teach your children to be strong and independenet and deal with bullies in the way we all apparently shold know how to deal with them...it places the fault, the blame, the reason for bullying onto the bullied child not the ones making them miserable.
Dana, to take every case of bullying to that degree just isn't right. In the most extreme cases, I don't believe that lasts forever. Its usually a rotating thing where its Johnny this week and Mary next. When it gets to the level where it is one child over years and years... thats a totally different thing altogether. That is not what I was referring to at all. I grasp your perspective on this and I'm sorry if I was insensitive.
Bullshit, classic.
I was bullied constantly from the time I was seven till I made it to college. There were periods (perhaps a month or two long) where I was left in relative peace -- then it would start up again.
And yes, I contemplated (and once attempted) suicide. And no, home was not a safe haven.
Fuck you and your lack of compassion.
Bullshit, classic.
Fuck you and your lack of compassion.
Thanks but no thanks.
Ignorance - apparently, but not a lack of compassion.
Columbine happened because of bullies. They picked on two kids, those two kids got guns and fought back. Fought back against the bullies and the crowd associated with them. I strongly support recent efforts to reduce bullying in schools.
I was rarely bullied in school. It happened only a couple of times, but was very traumatic. I can't imagine what it was like for kids who were routinely bullied.
In addition to glatts note, I would say that we have all read about the case of an adult female who bullied a teen female neighbor who eventually commited suicide. You never can know who is on the other end of any cyber exchange. Eva.
some folks are out there LOOKING to be victims.
just sayin'
I'm always shocked when I see stuff like this from you, Jim. I think of you as a nice guy - wacky but fun. Then stuff like this comes along and completely floors me. It shows such a lack of empathy/compassion that the mind boggles.
I'm always shocked when I see stuff like this from you, Jim. I think of you as a nice guy - wacky but fun. Then stuff like this comes along and completely floors me. It shows such a lack of empathy/compassion that the mind boggles.
He's being a dick on purpose. I ignore him.
Classic, I flew off the handle. I retract the harshness, but reiterate my judgment on your lack of empathy.
I'm always shocked when I see stuff like this from you, Jim. I think of you as a nice guy - wacky but fun. Then stuff like this comes along and completely floors me. It shows such a lack of empathy/compassion that the mind boggles.
Hey stop that. He gets to set the bar here. :rolleyes:
I'm always shocked when I see stuff like this from you, Jim. I think of you as a nice guy - wacky but fun. Then stuff like this comes along and completely floors me. It shows such a lack of empathy/compassion that the mind boggles.
well....dar.....that's where you're coloring in your own opinions of what kind of person I am. and you too, Pie...
that statement is, in my opinion, accurate. there ARE people out there that take satisfaction from being victimized. they need/want the compassion that they get from it.....it's passive aggression. munchausen(sp?) whatever...
I have no idea if the example used in this post is that aspect, or a legit victim. irrelevant to my point.
...the only reason i pointed it out at all was because there is a fucking website for someone to sell advertising on (mention of which made it into the article/advert, oddly enough).....is, most likely, the real reason for it's existence. opportunistic profiteering on the victimization of those 'poor poor teens' who can't step away from the computer, ignore text messages etc etc...
the website encourages a victim mentality. they benefit from it.
now call me a shit some more
i think you're full of yourself and overestimate the value of your so called honor. and i am seldom floored by it. or boggled.
i still love you though, cock.
Lj, you were trolling. Admit it. Then you can 'play the victim' after the inevitable pile-on.
:p
In addition to glatts note, I would say that we have all read about the case of an adult female who bullied a teen female neighbor who eventually commited suicide. You never can know who is on the other end of any cyber exchange. Eva.
I find this highly ironic.
Oh yeah? Well that badass just gave half his paycheck to kids. Kids with diseases.
I don't think lj, classic, or myself are heartless because of our comments. It's a different perspective, to be sure.
My answer was not thought out, and no I don't understand being bullied. Why was I never bullied? I suppose there are a lot of reasons: lack of qualified bulliers perhaps, but I also feel that I never put myself out there for that. I've said before I'm scarily fearless ('cept for spiders) and perhaps I've always carried myself in a way that precluded me seeming victimizable. It's also not that there weren't people in my childhood, or young adulthood, who didn't try to go there. They quickly gave up that effort when they saw I wasn't playing that game.
I do feel compassion for people, more deeply than it must seem. It is only the people I care about I seem to let treat me badly: strangers can take a flying leap because I won't be backed into a corner without a really big fight. I'm not playing toughwoman: this is just the way I am, the way I've always been.
I am sorry if I seemed to make light of your individual situations. My response was to the article, which elicited from me my first thought: stand up for yourself because no one else is going to do that for you.
my first thought: stand up for yourself because no one else is going to do that for you.
I understand your point of view; and it's true, in limited situations. But it becomes neigh-unto-impossible when you have to stand up to 1000+ people for
years.
Most people survive. It does leave long-term scars; bullying is one of the three reasons I will
never have children. My kids are bound to be as ugly as me; there would be no hope for them.
Well Pie, I think you're adorable...you know that. :)
No, I can't imagine what you must have gone through, and again I'm sorry if I seemed heartless.
Lj, you were trolling. Admit it. Then you can 'play the victim' after the inevitable pile-on.
:p
you've got me and The Mercenary confused, Pie.
you've got me and The Mercenary confused, Pie.
:lol2:
I don't think so.
as ugly as me; there would be no hope for them.
cutest ugly chick I know....
Amazin' what 14 years of orthodontia will do for you. :thumb:
I'm not looking for sympathy. I have everything I could want. If a 'bully' were to pick on me now, I would nail his ass to the wall.
What I do have is some remaining empathy for those who are still living it.
note to self: don't mess with Pie. ;)
...the only reason i pointed it out at all was because there is a fucking website for someone to sell advertising on (mention of which made it into the article/advert, oddly enough).....is, most likely, the real reason for it's existence. opportunistic profiteering on the victimization of those 'poor poor teens' who can't step away from the computer, ignore text messages etc etc...
the website encourages a victim mentality. they benefit from it.
What usually encourages a serious victim mentality is personality, combined with dehumanizing physical, sexual, or emotional abuse, neglect, or other serious adverse events during childhood.
it doesn't really come from websites
If somebody has worked out a way for a supportive caring atmosphere to make money, I salute them! I think that being relentlessly bullied for a year helped to turn my panic disorder into social anxiety disorder, but I'd never know without serious therapy. Oh well!
I understand your point of view; and it's true, in limited situations. But it becomes neigh-unto-impossible when you have to stand up to 1000+ people for years.
Most people survive. It does leave long-term scars; bullying is one of the three reasons I will never have children. My kids are bound to be as ugly as me; there would be no hope for them.
My experience echoes this. One of the key reasons I won;t have children is that i don't want my heart broken constantly day in and day out, like my mum's. I don't want a kid with eczema (likely) because that's just a fucking big target sign right there. But it can be something smaller. And Shawnee, you can be as fearless and plucky as y'like but if you have the misfortune to run into a particularly competant bully who can turn it into something bigger, you're fucked. Once it gets past the intimacy of your immediate peers and makes into the class, the year, or the main student body, then changing that is like turning a juggernaut.
I suspect the people who tried it on with you just weren't very good at it. Bullying, real bullying, the sort that exists in both playgrouind and office and can utterly destroy lives, child and adult, isn't about getting the shit kicked out of you, though yes that figures. Its about a character assassination that includes making you responsible for the bullying. It includes painting you axs uniquely deserving of that contempt. It usually involves the bully being painted as the 'victim' of some perceived wrong at the hands of the bullied. I've experienced it as a child. I've seen it as an adult. I've counselled people through it when it's been threatening their health and ability to do their job.
Lj. I hear what you say. BUt to me, you just add to the noise. The hazy cloud that stops people seeing clearly who actually is the victim and where the responsibility actually lies.
So come on. Hey Shaw, Classic and Jim: why don't you tell me now that I asked for it. Tell me, did I paint victim on my back? Was that me?
But it becomes My kids are bound to be as ugly as me; there would be no hope for them.
Bullshit, you cute chicks just don't want competition from younger cute chicks. :p
Little turds didnt come with instruction manuals
You mean they don't have an instruction tag on the bottom? ;)
Dana, did I not concede those very points?
I won't be painted ,either, as a cold heartless person because of what I said. I took another look and gave another post, was that not sufficient?
And Shawnee, you can be as fearless and plucky as y'like
That borders on shitty, very condescending.
Shawnee, their skin is very thin when it comes to this subject and rightly so. They are going to be prickly....let them have it. Count your blessings that you never had to deal with the inhumanly humiliating effects of being a bully's target. Ive been there too, a little bit...its hellish, and life shaping.
Well, there are things I am quite prickly about too (see: only people I care about treating me badly and make your own conclusions) but I don't expect everyone to understand that or even to care.
We have all had crosses to bear.
If I say I'm sorry if I seem heartless one more time will it mean something? Keep in mind I never say anything remotely resembling a lie.
Awww...Im sorry, I dont mean to dump on you, Im just saying we all know that you arent heartless.
Shaw, I never saw you as being heartless, fwiw. As you say, these crosses are individually tailored.
Lj. I hear what you say. BUt to me, you just add to the noise. The hazy cloud that stops people seeing clearly who actually is the victim and where the responsibility actually lies.
So come on. Hey Shaw, Classic and Jim: why don't you tell me now that I asked for it. Tell me, did I paint victim on my back? Was that me?
please don't put words in my mouth. I am quite capable of getting in my own trouble......
:corn:
troll
please don't put words in my mouth. I am quite capable of getting in my own trouble......
troll
Cyber Bully.
Will you two knock it off and get a room already? :rolleyes:
Will you two knock it off and get a room already? :rolleyes:
why don't YOU shut yer Pie hole?
Shawnee. I didn't and don't think you heartless. And yes I was being condescending, but with respect, it was in response to this condescension:
Why was I never bullied? I suppose there are a lot of reasons: lack of qualified bulliers perhaps, but I also feel that I never put myself out there for that. I've said before I'm scarily fearless ('cept for spiders) and perhaps I've always carried myself in a way that precluded me seeming victimizable. It's also not that there weren't people in my childhood, or young adulthood, who didn't try to go there. They quickly gave up that effort when they saw I wasn't playing that game.
Again, it adds to the idea that people who get bullied are drawing the bully. I didn't play the game. I have never been a quiet victim.
I might point out at this time that I have bullied as well. In my defense I considered had reason. Fuck with my friends and I can be unpleasant. And creative. Impulses and ways of interacting which I have long since trained myself out of. Except in politics, obviously.
I see that Shawnee is trying to understand why she wasn't bullied when others were, not that she's being condescending.
Bullying sucks and shouldn't be tolerated, but it is. A place of solace away from bullying is a good thing, but won't really solve the problem.
This thread has made me sad: sad that people are so cruel, sad that the world can be so cold. This is a feeling I've struggled against since I can remember remembering; I've never understood that about people.
Dana, I hope you know I have the utmost respect for you. I certainly don't think you ever "asked for it" and I am sorry to give that impression. My experience is totally different. Yes, I am proud of how strong I can be. Yes, I am constantly dismayed by my weakness.
Now give me some names and addresses so I can go kick some ass. ;)
*chuckles* Shawnee, I know that.
This isn't really about me. What I am, though, is a person you know, and as such I hope that some of the assumptions that get made when it's a stranger (like in that article) are avoided. The only thing that's annoyed me in this thread was the speed with which that girl and her family were labelled complicit in her victimisation. There is a culture (in my country and in yours I believe) of machismo when it comes to bullying. One is not supposed to 'lie down and take it', one is supposed to 'fight back. Those who become victims of bullying are perceived as weak. They must be weak, because they were the ones who got bullied.
It's pervasive. It feeds into every field in life. Whatever is overtly put into the culture in terms of telling someone if you're being bullied, and it's not your fault if you are being bullied; none of that outweighs the deep cultural identification of the bullied as weak and unworthy. Darwinism in action. This is how many people see it. That macho culture makes it very difficult for people to speak out.
Me? Oh I'll speak out. I am unbullyable. But only because I got innoculated young :P
So come on. Hey Shaw, Classic and Jim: why don't you tell me now that I asked for it. Tell me, did I paint victim on my back? Was that me?
What the hell are you talking about? When did I EVER say anything remotely like that? I said that I thought the mother was being overly dramatic - does that count? I also ASKED how "girl bullying" was different. Fuckin A - looked for a little enlightenment and you, Pie and a couple others just "bully" me. great way to show YOUR empathy. Hypocrits, the lot of ya'
Then this beaut ...
I might point out at this time that I have bullied as well.
So...this life altering aberration you described was something you felt compelled to inflict upon another human? Oh... YOU had reason. So that made it ok, i guess.
Personally what you all are talking about is way past bullying - its harassment. My definition of bullying would be more akin to what (no name) has been done here to certain posters...relatively harmless poking or mocking. I believe I even mentioned this in my 2nd post.
What the hell are you talking about? When did I EVER say anything remotely like that? I said that I thought the mother was being overly dramatic - does that count? I also ASKED how "girl bullying" was different. Fuckin A - looked for a little enlightenment and you, Pie and a couple others just "bully" me. great way to show YOUR empathy. Hypocrits, the lot of ya'
Then this beaut ...
So...this life altering aberration you described was something you felt compelled to inflict upon another human? Oh... YOU had reason. So that made it ok, i guess.
Personally what you all are talking about is way past bullying - its harassment. My definition of bullying would be more akin to what (no name) has been done here to certain posters...relatively harmless poking or mocking. I believe I even mentioned this in my 2nd post.
Cyber Bullies in the Cellar? No way.
Hey Merc - Go choke on yer popcorn or just STFU - mmmkay?
**gaging**
Gaging??? As in "Checking dimensional requirement by means of a gage."
I think you meant gagging and I hope it was on your popcorn. As you were. Oh and make sure you wash your hands before you touch the keyboard.
Gaging??? As in "Checking dimensional requirement by means of a gage."
I think you meant gagging and I hope it was on your popcorn. As you were. Oh and make sure you wash your hands before you touch the keyboard.
Yea that. Now join my "social club".
Bullied for most of my school life. Made me HATE school. Stopped going most of the time until college.
Most of the bullies were girls. It was that kind of town. I was taught to NEVER hit a girl. My father wasn't and I wasn't going to be him, no matter what. Bullies are the lowest form of life in school.
My only recompense, if I can call it that, albeit too late, was the fact that the 3 major trangressors did not fare too well. One was killed by her boyfriend. One had four kids, on welfare and no father in sight. The 3rd has been in and out of rehab and institutions since HS.
Yea that. Now join my "social club".
Fook you and your social shitclub - Its just something else to get bullied about. Kinda like being in the chess club or band or....
We are all adults here, and I think our perceptions come from the experiences we had as kids decades ago. I think things have changed a lot due almost entirely to Columbine. Schools take this shit very seriously now. At my kids elementary school they have a "peacemaker" program. They spend several hours each month going over core values and practicing conflict resolution. There is also a peer mediation program so kids can take conflicts to trained peers if they are afraid to take it to a teacher. Most importantly, the teachers take it seriously. They don't want bullying going on, so they work it out between students if they hear there is a problem.
It's still kids on a playground, but it isn't Lord of the Flies, like when I was a kid.
I saw a lot of bullying and
did nothing about it because I didn't want the bullies to turn on me. That's probably the thing that bothers me most.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you... then you win."
My only recompense, if I can call it that, albeit too late, was the fact that the 3 major trangressors did not fare too well. One was killed by her boyfriend. One had four kids, on welfare and no father in sight. The 3rd has been in and out of rehab and institutions since HS.
Didn't we learn from the Breakfast Club that the bullies are just as damaged as those they bully? Isn't there a similarity to abusive relationships?
Didn't we learn from the Breakfast Club that the bullies are just as damaged as those they bully? Isn't there a similarity to abusive relationships?
Yes they are. But we have a choice. I was bullied and beaten up often. But I never did it to anyone else.
Didn't we learn from the Breakfast Club . . .
No. We did not learn. As somebody said, if history teaches us anything, it's that we don't learn from history.
I was ... beaten up often. But I never did it to anyone else.
Unless they asked for it in juuust the right way?;)
So...this life altering aberration you described was something you felt compelled to inflict upon another human? Oh... YOU had reason. So that made it ok, i guess.
No. It didn't make it ok. What I should have done was advise my friend to talk to her teacher, or indeed quietly talk to one of the teachers myself. What I did instead was serve up a very adolescent form of rough justice. I fed her the meal she'd been feeding my friend. It was the wrong thing to do. But, I, like her, was very young.
Personally what you all are talking about is way past bullying - its harassment. My definition of bullying would be more akin to what (no name) has been done here to certain posters...relatively harmless poking or mocking. I believe I even mentioned this in my 2nd post.
But that's my point Classic. People aren't setting up websites and engaging in a national debate in order to combat teasing, which I believe is what you thought was being referred to. They're trying to tackle a very real and destructive problem. It's something that affects a lot of people, and can have profound implications for their future happiness. Unfortunately there is a tendency within our culture(s) to look at bullying (of the kind I am talking about) and characterise it as teasing gone too far. It's not teasing gone too far it's a different animal altogether.
This subject winds me up a little. Not because I'm angry at stuff that happened to me as a kid. I'm not. BUt that kid and her family put their pain out there in order to try and empower youngsters coping with a very destructive force and I think they deserved a little more benefit of the doubt. I think that's what pissed me off. Our readiness to dismiss them. To mock them, even, as an instinctive response. With a lack of evidence (the ignorance you posit) our initial and instinctive assumptions are unkind and unsympathetic.
Didn't we learn from the Breakfast Club that the bullies are just as damaged as those they bully? Isn't there a similarity to abusive relationships?
Umm...the message I took from that at the time was that being a Basket Case had mileage. It confirmed my own suspicions that the way to stave off bullying was to become a mental. Which I duly did.
huh....and to think....i went around taping all the nerds' butt cheeks together that year
Umm...the message I took from that at the time was that being a Basket Case had mileage. It confirmed my own suspicions that the way to stave off bullying was to become a mental. Which I duly did.
So you changed your behavior or self in some way, and the bullying stopped?
The bullying stopped when I kicked the shit out of Queen Hockey Bitch in the middle of an art class. But I'd already figured out people are less likely to want to fight you if they think you are dangerously unpredictable and suicidally reckless.
It doesn't say it is related to bullying but you have to wonder. Is this what we are coming to?
MILFORD, Conn.
A Connecticut middle school principal has laid down the law: You put your hands on someone -- anyone -- in any way, you're going to pay.
A violent incident that put one student in the hospital has officials at the Milford school implementing a "no touching" policy, according to a letter written by the school's principal.
East Shore Middle School parents said the change came after a student was sent to the hospital after being struck in the groin.
Principal Catherine Williams sent out a letter earlier in the week telling parents recent behavior has seriously impacted the safety and learning at the school.
"Observed behaviors of concern recently exhibited include kicking others in the groin area, grabbing and touching of others in personal areas, hugging and horseplay. Physical contact is prohibited to keep all students safe in the learning environment," Williams wrote.
Students and parents are outraged. They said the new policy means no high-fives and hugs, as well as horseplay of any kind. The consequences could be dire, Williams warned in the letter.
"Potential consequences and disciplinary action may include parent conferences, detention, suspension and/or a request for expulsion from school," Williams wrote.
Many think the school's no tolerance policy goes way too far. Others said it's utterly ridiculous.
"Now it's almost as if it's a sanitized school. Where you have to keep your distance from everybody? And that's not what school is about," one father said.
"What if they are out on the playground at recess, or in gym class?" parent Kathy Casey wondered. "You know, gym class is physical."
http://wcbstv.com/local/school.bans.hugs.2.969949.htmlPeople aren't setting up websites and engaging in a national debate in order to combat teasing, which I believe is what you thought was being referred to.
Thats where I was coming from.
There is a culture (in my country and in yours I believe) of machismo when it comes to bullying. One is not supposed to 'lie down and take it', one is supposed to 'fight back.
That's because over hundreds, maybe thousands, of years, we've discovered it's the only thing that
always works.
The bullying stopped when I kicked the shit out of Queen Hockey Bitch in the middle of an art class. But I'd already figured out people are less likely to want to fight you if they think you are dangerously unpredictable and suicidally reckless.
As you proved for the billionth time.
No I didnt prove it. Because that wasnt the first timei had faced down the bullies. It wasnt even the first time I'd faced down that particular bully. Facing down bullies didn't stop it happening. Not for most of my childhood.
What made that particular incident effective was that it was a vicious attack and took place in the middle of a classroom (I also accidentally punched the teacher who tried to intervene). I should not , as a 15 year old, have had to resort to beating someone bloody in order to buy myself a modicum of peace.
Actually, I didn't even beat her up to stop her bullying me. She'd started on my friend. And I had had enough.
The trouble is Classic, I think maybe you have a skewed view of what bullying is actually like. In particular with teenage girls. It's not crowding round you in the playground and stealing your lunch (though that happens) it's not waiting for you at the school gate and kicking the shit out of you (though that also is a part of it). With girls it's more subtle and destructive than that. It's a very social form of bullying with girls.
Social ostracism, jeers, taunts.. it's hard to substantiate beating someone to a pulp when all they've used against you is words.
I would have been expelled and kicked out of the house had I laid a hand on another student.
I've been thinking a lot about this, and remembering how cruel kids could be. There was a girl in elementary school who was picked on quite a bit. For even a few years after HS, she would call me because, as she told my mom, I was one of the few people who was nice to her.
Listening to your stories has opened up a side of the situation I had never really examined before, I guess. I do know that I had cruel moments, but I also remember many instances of being the one who stood up for people. Still, looking back, I wish I had done more.
Kids are kids. The problem is that adults need to be adults and know when to intervene and how to spot signs that a kid is in trouble. That applies both to bullied and bully. If it goes unchecked and the 'code of silence' prevails whlst young, then it sows seeds potentially for later bullying or aggressive and controlling behaviour in adulthood.
Learning how to interact and survive in groups is an important part of growing up and being human. But the environments in which we expect our young to acquire those social skills is quite an artificial one. 1200 kids gathered in one building, loosely grouped in 30s and 40s. It's very easy to get lost in there. As an adult I can walk away. A co-worker makes my life hell, a boss unreasonably focuses on my faults to the exclusion of others, the culture I find myself in doesn't really fit my personality...I can walk away. I have the ultimate sanction on any bullying behaviour in the workplace because I am not legally obliged to remain.
Wtf does a kid do? When they just don't fit into a 1200 strong community. What do they do, if a teacher hates them and keeps picking on them, what do they do if their classmates don't like them, or if they hate going into the building so much it makes them feel physically sick? What if they just can't get past the overwhelming rage they feel and theyre stuck with people who look down on them and call them stupid; maybe they keep getting into trouble, beating up on younger kids and have no idea why theyre doing it. Unless they have parents able and willing to homeschool them, or with the money and resources to try out different schools, they are stuck. Legally bound to be in a place where they are tormented.
If we as adults are expecting them to spend five years or more in an institution with no right to refuse or to argue for terms, we damn well have a duty to ensure they aren't undergoing huge psychological stress whilst there.
I was bullied briefly in the second grade. An asshole who should have been in third (I've always thought that coz he was way bigger than all of us) held out his hand and demanded my milk nickle. So I stabbed him through the hand with a pencil and then again in the back as he ran away.
Funny thing... we never saw that kid again. My mom had to come get me from school and whipped the shit outa me but I was back in school the next day. Never got bullied again. EVAH.
Cyber bullying is way different though in that you can't stab them with pencils online. But you can get your mod to run his IP address and help you locate him and THEN kill him. Or you could just turn your machine off.:eek:
In my situation the adults helped make me a target. A 6th grade teacher was an asshole to me, a 7th grade chemistry teacher slapped me hard across the face after I pushed my friend's books off the table, a 7th grade guidance counselor simply looked the other way. Adults don't protect victims just because they're adults. Sometimes they have the same bullying instincts as the kids do.
I stabbed one of my bullyers with a pencil in 7th grade. It had no effect.
In my situation the adults helped make me a target. A 6th grade teacher was an asshole to me, a 7th grade chemistry teacher slapped me hard across the face after I pushed my friend's books off the table, a 7th grade guidance counselor simply looked the other way. Adults don't protect victims just because they're adults. Sometimes they have the same bullying instincts as the kids do.
I stabbed one of my bullyers with a pencil in 7th grade. It had no effect.
Unfortunately that matches some of my experience UT. Games (PE) teachers were the worst for that, but I recall two other teachers who effectively sanctioned the bullying. For example: once I'd been ostracised by my entire year, I cuoldn't just enter a class and take a seat. Because of overcrowding issues, there were often too few places in a class and someone wuold have to tag themselves onto the end of a desk, making a two place desk into a three place desk. Each time I'd enter my French class I'd try and find somewhere to sit and at each desk I'd get hissed at "Fuck off, dont sit here" " Eww, dont sit here dirty bitch" (dirty = eczema). I'd be fretting and trying not to show it, trying to find somewhere where I am not being hissed at. The teacher on more than one occasion shouted at me to 'Stop fussing and find a seat". She cannot have been unaware. Id been ostracised for nearly a year and I know there'd been a crisis meeting between my teachers and parents.
Not unusual.
Teachers can make it worse by trying to help, too. In fourth grade I was sitting alone on the playground, as was usual and fine with me, and the teacher came up and wanted to know why I wasn't playing with the other kids. Well, the short answer was they didn't like me and I was happier being alone. Oh no, she insisted, that can't be true. She marched me over to the large group of popular kids and ordered them to stop ostracizing me and "let" me play with them. Yeah, that didn't have any unintended consequences as soon as her back was turned again, no sirree.
I should not , as a 15 year old, have had to resort to beating someone bloody in order to buy myself a modicum of peace.
Nonsense, that's the only valid reason, and even if it doesn't stop that bully, others will think twice about piling on. Plus it feels so right.
The trouble is Classic, I think maybe you have a skewed view of what bullying is actually like. In particular with teenage girls. It's not crowding round you in the playground and stealing your lunch (though that happens) it's not waiting for you at the school gate and kicking the shit out of you (though that also is a part of it). With girls it's more subtle and destructive than that. It's a very social form of bullying with girls.
Maybe because girls are more susceptible, they're sensitive to that social standing shit.
Mind over matter... if you don't mind it don't matter.
We social clods can't be socially bullied, gotta get physical with us. That eliminates a lot of the bullies from the git go, and provides the opportunity to stop a lot of the rest right quick. :D
backstabber!
The fucker shouldn't have run. I was going for his eye.:mad:
Something that seems to have gotten missed here in this discussion, is that bullying isn't about teasing, it isn't "all in fun," it isn't a game, it's about POWER and CONTROL, plain and simple. Bullies seek to humiliate others in order to gain power over them through FEAR and INTIMIDATION. You could say they are mini-terrorists, without the bombs. After all, they are tormenting people, causing them to feel terror.
It comes from a place of weakness in the bully, weakness of character, fear (they are probably being abused in some way themselves, or neglected), feelings of inadequecy. So in order to feel powerful, and fearless, and OK, they prey on others who are weaker. The really sad thing is, many times the ones who get preyed upon are not really weaker, they are just unprepared to deal with the situation because let's face it, kids aren't given the skills they need to combat that particular kind of cruelty.
While I was never bullied, there was this one retarded girl at my school that other people liked to bully. I always stood up for her. I always tried to shame the people who were bullying or making fun of her. I have always been that way. I also say shit to people when they litter. Or when people are cruel to animals.
I have to say though, a part of me has grown cold to the cruelty in the world. If it wasn't, it would break me. There is just too much of it out there, and nothing is being done about it.
The bullying stopped when I kicked the shit out of Queen Hockey Bitch in the middle of an art class. But I'd already figured out people are less likely to want to fight you if they think you are dangerously unpredictable and suicidally reckless.
Have you ever seen the show WEEDS? (Scene with Shane at his new school in the lunchroom. :D)
It doesn't say it is related to bullying but you have to wonder. Is this what we are coming to?
http://wcbstv.com/local/school.bans.hugs.2.969949.html
What kills me is, they KNOW who the bullies are, so why go to all the trouble of new rules that are stupid? Just KICK THE BULLIES OUT! Geezuz. It ain't rocket science.
Kids are kids. The problem is that adults need to be adults and know when to intervene and how to spot signs that a kid is in trouble. That applies both to bullied and bully. If it goes unchecked and the 'code of silence' prevails whlst young, then it sows seeds potentially for later bullying or aggressive and controlling behaviour in adulthood.
Learning how to interact and survive in groups is an important part of growing up and being human. But the environments in which we expect our young to acquire those social skills is quite an artificial one. 1200 kids gathered in one building, loosely grouped in 30s and 40s. It's very easy to get lost in there. As an adult I can walk away. A co-worker makes my life hell, a boss unreasonably focuses on my faults to the exclusion of others, the culture I find myself in doesn't really fit my personality...I can walk away. I have the ultimate sanction on any bullying behaviour in the workplace because I am not legally obliged to remain.
Wtf does a kid do? When they just don't fit into a 1200 strong community. What do they do, if a teacher hates them and keeps picking on them, what do they do if their classmates don't like them, or if they hate going into the building so much it makes them feel physically sick? What if they just can't get past the overwhelming rage they feel and theyre stuck with people who look down on them and call them stupid; maybe they keep getting into trouble, beating up on younger kids and have no idea why theyre doing it. Unless they have parents able and willing to homeschool them, or with the money and resources to try out different schools, they are stuck. Legally bound to be in a place where they are tormented.
If we as adults are expecting them to spend five years or more in an institution with no right to refuse or to argue for terms, we damn well have a duty to ensure they aren't undergoing huge psychological stress whilst there.
Well said Dana. Adults ARE part of the problem. They seem oblivious to what goes on around them, and even the good ones (at least in this country) have no power to stop it, because of the dumbass rules we have in place.
And in actuality, it's worked pretty well so far, because if you
really look at the issue, that is how the masses are kept under control. Fear and complacency.
You can only kick the bullies out if you have somewhere to kick them out to to. Chances are those are precisely the kids we most need to reach. Just kicking them out of the school isn't the answer. It stops them bullying the kids in that school but it does nothing to resolve the core issues. They're still kids. They're likely suffering a good deal of emotional or psychological pain and/or confusion. They're the ones who most need our attention and concern.
Well then, maybe there should be a special school for problem kids, so all the kids who are there to learn aren't distracted and abused while trying to get an education, and the bullies can get the special education and attention THEY need. I know we aren't dealing with the problem very well here in the states, at least in Savannah.
"The beatings will continue until morale improves."
Well then, maybe there should be a special school for problem kids,....
Who's going to pay for this "special school"? I really don't want to spend another million dollars a year for every kid that needs a slap up side the head.
Just send them to an after-school program where xoB can give them "a slap up side the head". :lol2:
I really don't want to spend another million dollars a year for every kid that needs a slap up side the head.
lol - ya bully!
Just send them to an after-school program where xoB can give them "a slap up side the head". :lol2:
Christ, do I have to do everything? Send them home to their parents, that's their job.
I will never have children. My kids are bound to be as ugly as me; there would be no hope for them.
WWWWWWWHAT. THEFUCK. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
I didn't comment before because I thought maybe I misremembered what you looked like, and there's nothing more patronizing than telling a genuinely ugly person that they are not..... ....but no... you just posted this pic.... you are as cute as all get out.... and I am a non les-type who isn't into all the girly false compliment shit..... so shut up and listen....
Huge brown eyes to drown in, framed by eyebrows (note the plural -nowhere near a unibrow) that architects would die to design. Cheekbones plastic surgeons would use in their after ads... nose and chin so cute disney would design characters around them, and last -but by no means least- a smile that promises way more than any human has any right to expect to get. I'm not even going to start on the hair... much....but it ain't mouse and it knows it wants to be wavy. that rocks in my world.
SO SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY. (But still don't have babies unless you want them.)
I do feel your pain. It's only in the last 5 years -since I found the pictures of me -the fat nerdy bullied 16yo in the cerise bathing suit- and looked at them through my grown-up eyes, that I realised I wasn't actually fat then. i just believed the assholes who said I was. I was still a nerd with bad fashion sense -still am and am OK with that, but it's the fat thing that has always stuck with me and -damnit- turns out I wasn't. Turns out you're not ugly.
I agree with monster Pie. You are cute as hell. ;)
Oh, yeah. The Pie is babe-a-licious. I always said so.
(Well, ever since she first posted a picture)
well....dar.....that's where you're coloring in your own opinions of what kind of person I am. and you too, Pie...
Possibly. Here's what you said: "some folks are out there LOOKING to be victims. just sayin'"
The subtext I heard was "... so they deserve whatever they get."
If that's not the statement you intended to make, then I'm confused as to why you brought up the point.
i think you're full of yourself
Because I try to act ethically and I speak out against unethical behavior? Does that equal stuck-up to you?
overestimate the value of your so called honor.
I don't think it is possible to overestimate ethical behavior. It is the basis for trust.
Possibly. Here's what you said: "some folks are out there LOOKING to be victims. just sayin'"
The subtext I heard was "... so they deserve whatever they get."
I think you should think about why you heard a subtext that isn't there. "Deserve whatever they get" is a judgment and not what we're talking about at all. Acknowledging the roles we play in the events in our own lives isn't about judgment, it's about learning, growing, being safe etc...
I can believe that rape is bad and rapists are always at fault and still teach my daughter that she is responsible for her own safety.
If you only address half the problem, you're gonna get a half-assed solution (see Mercs article).
I admit that I have a sensitivity to the subject having been bullied in HS, but I think it was natural to read that subtext into Jims post. After reflection, I realized that I had read that into his post.
I am still confused, however, by just why he would post that. Do you and Jim believe that this is the most common scenario? That bullies pick on those who set themselves up to be bullied? I don't buy that. It may occur, but I'd be willing to bet it is a very small percentage of the cases.
If you think that each person can (on their own) deter being bullied, then you are mistaken. Some of us are smaller or fatter or weaker.
I didnt like his statement either considering the topic, but I read it a little differently than you did, dar. I thought he was characterizing the site - how people are there to play up their victim status.
Possibly. Here's what you said: "some folks are out there LOOKING to be victims. just sayin'"
The subtext I heard was "... so they deserve whatever they get."
If that's not the statement you intended to make, then I'm confused as to why you brought up the point.
so you heard what you expected to hear, and assumed my intent. I already clarified this point, but once more.....SOME people are looking to play victim. as for why I brought it up....it was because the victim DOES play a role in bullying.....and no one had mentioned that yet. hence.....discussion. until you began casting personal aspersions about. yes you...
jinx pointed out something interesting to me...
notice how all of the people that have said they were bullied have lashed out inappropriately at one person or another? sheldon is glad someone is DEAD? wtf?
Because I try to act ethically and I speak out against unethical behavior? Does that equal stuck-up to you?
no...it's not because of WHAT you say...it's HOW you say it. condescending tone that implies your superior sense of honor......constantly. and what behavior of mine was unethical in this thread? I have been making an effort lately to NOT bully or personally insult people unless they go first. you have not noticed this, i expect.....
I don't think it is possible to overestimate ethical behavior. It is the basis for trust.
i agree with that.
notice how all of the people that have said they were bullied have lashed out inappropriately at one person or another? sheldon is glad someone is DEAD? wtf?
Not me. But I think this is the fundamental problem with bullying--in most cases, I think the bullies honestly don't understand the torment they're inflicting. Yes, they know they're deliberately hurting someone, but they can't conceive of what it really feels like. So when someone who has been bullied expresses (or acts on) a desire to inflict equivalent pain, bystanders are shocked at the viciousness, because they fundamentally can't relate to the amount of pain the bullied victim is in.
i don't know about that either....i think a lot of bullies have been or are being bullied themselves.
here's a question......
for those of you that were bullied all throughout school....was it the same bully the whole time? or were there a series of bullies?
One bully, from sixth grade up through senior year. Before she came along I was already a big nerd and not very well liked in general, but she was the only one who made me (and later several of my friends) miserable. And what's more, she encouraged her closest group of friends to be far meaner than they were before she showed up.
I believe I've mentioned here before that summer camp was my sanctuary. At summer camp I was popular, because there were no grades and no one had to know what a big smarty pants I secretly was. It had nothing to do with me, and everything to do with the environment we were put in.
I've remained quite a while here to try and get a grasp upon what you all are trying to express. I was in some less than cool clubs in school. I didn't have any friends that I know of who were bullied nor was I to the degree that you folks seem to have been. I certainly wasn't any more popular then than I am here on teh Cellar.
I never equated bullying with the vicious harassment that most of you do. I always looked at it more like teasing. This is a completely different and foreign reality to me.
here's a question......
for those of you that were bullied all throughout school....was it the same bully the whole time? or were there a series of bullies?
It was more of a group bullying situation... tag team if you will. ("Hey, I'm kinda tired today, you wanna take care of Steve for me at recess?" "Sure thing, bud, take it easy.")
I guess maybe I remind dar of the guy or guys that bullied him?
I must admit, I got a similar impression to Dar's from your original comment on victims, Lj. I'm glad that wasn't what you meant, and clearly it's something that could be taken to mean a number of different things.
Have you considered that rather than reminding anybody of bullies they may or may not have encountered, your comments instead appeared to belittle the problem of bullying and place responsibility for that bullying onto the victim instead of the bully. That you did not necessarily mean that doesn't change the fact that a number of people read it that way. Mainly people who'd experienced bullying. Not because they're super sensitive to being bullied, or that they considered you to be like the bullies, just because it's a kick in the teeth to have something so fundamental belittled and your experience of it disparaged. Intentionally or not.
Oh yeah I was also bullied briefly as a Senior in college, by some guys in my dorm hallway. That one never made any sense to me. I was willing to fight back, at that point I was not victimizable. But I would have been murdered in hand-to-hand combat with the guys doing it. So after about four ridiculous incidents, I fought back with a BB gun, spring loaded, looked like a hand gun. That only made them madder, until one guy actually threatened to kill me with a baseball bat, I mean bat in hand headed for my door, and had to be talked down. At that point everything stopped.
In the semester that followed, three things got most of the guys actually into my favor.
One was that I smoked the highest quality weed they'd ever had, and I would talk at length with them about bong additives. They were convinced that milk was the ideal bong water, because it made the smoke smoother. I pointed out that the fats in the milk would leech some of the THC from the smoke. They were happy to receive this tip. I was happy not to have to deal with the unusual stink combination of bong water plus spoiled milk.
Two, after they egged my door, I repainted it... with the address on the door written in huge letters in spray paint. It looked somewhat ghetto, but memorable. "I live at 100 Mohn Hall." "Oh! You're that guy!" The housing director liked me, so I never caught any shit for it.
And three, one day they were golfing with a nine-iron in the corridor. With a real golf ball. I came out and asked - "What are you guys doing?" They replied, "We're carpet golfing." I came back with "Well, always remember to replace your divots." and turned around and closed the door.
They loved that. Although they never did replace their divots.
I've remained quite a while here to try and get a grasp upon what you all are trying to express. I was in some less than cool clubs in school. I didn't have any friends that I know of who were bullied nor was I to the degree that you folks seem to have been. I certainly wasn't any more popular then than I am here on teh Cellar.
I never equated bullying with the vicious harassment that most of you do. I always looked at it more like teasing. This is a completely different and foreign reality to me.
Well there is teasing, and there is bullying. They are really two completely different things, although they may overlap some.
I hope
this, along with bringing back memories for lots of us, makes us
ALL smile.
I must admit, I got a similar impression to Dar's from your original comment on victims, Lj. I'm glad that wasn't what you meant, and clearly it's something that could be taken to mean a number of different things.
Have you considered that rather than reminding anybody of bullies they may or may not have encountered, your comments instead appeared to belittle the problem of bullying and place responsibility for that bullying onto the victim instead of the bully. That you did not necessarily mean that doesn't change the fact that a number of people read it that way. Mainly people who'd experienced bullying. Not because they're super sensitive to being bullied, or that they considered you to be like the bullies, just because it's a kick in the teeth to have something so fundamental belittled and your experience of it disparaged. Intentionally or not.
Thanks, Dana. You said it better than I could have.
I guess maybe I remind dar of the guy or guys that bullied him?
No. Not so much.
It's more that I am sensitive to the subject and anything that sounds like a justification of bullying makes me see red.
There were alot of different opinions and so I'll ask that you excuse the fact I don't use one to base my opinion on. I guess because I just don't get who makes a victim but I think I have a good idea at whose feet the blame of bullying should be laid.
I have never been bullied in school and not because I am a strong person. It just never was something I thought about. I was thought of as shy,reserved and by highschool I could set in with the crowd smoking at the gate but mingled with what we called the socialites.
I actually never knew there were people who could actually not like my flavor of ice cream until I was 28.
Ignorance is bliss I guess.
I do know that some kids in special needs classes get bullied. These days to retaliate with violence causes an incarceration for the victim.
I wish sometimes the boys would be allowed to duke it out since it's what they have been doing since the beginning of time and in preventing a fair retaliation breeds an enviroment more ripe for the bully to do his thing.
I am still ignorant of this bully/victim thing as far as school goes.
I have though come to the conclusion that cyber bullying might be a thing ones draws to oneself out of the inability of some to moderate their thoughts. * points to self*
That said the tragic death of the girl who was targeted was a different kind of cyber -bullying.
[edit- I've been up all night so I am not really sure what I even said makes sense(lol)so if it doesn't make sense, oh well and sorry for that :)]
It's more that I am sensitive to the subject and anything that sounds like a justification of bullying makes me see red.
Thanks, Dar. You said it better than I could have.
Columbine happened because of bullies. They picked on two kids, those two kids got guns and fought back. Fought back against the bullies and the crowd associated with them.
There's a new book on the subject, Columbine
Debunking the myths of Columbine - CNN.
link
"I don't believe bullying caused Columbine," Jeff Kass, who covered the story for the Rocky Mountain News, told CNN. "My key reason for that is they never mentioned it in their diaries."
...
The two killers were far from normal teens. Harris was a psychopath and Klebold battled depression, according to psychologists cited in the book. Even so, they also weren't the extreme social outcasts and loners depicted in the early days of media coverage.
... Klebold took a date to the prom, riding with a dozen friends in a limo, just days before the shooting...
Today, after carefully combing through the boy's diaries, school assignments and police documents, journalists and investigators agree there is no evidence the killers singled out the jocks in a hit list. In fact, their victims varied in race, popularity, religion and age.
I heard they were simply going for the maximum number of kills possible, regardless of who they were. They had a propane "bomb" set to go off during the "A Lunch" and they also rigged their car to kill more. Nothing anywhere confirmed they were going after the jocks. In fact everything proved otherwise.
The only thing I have to add to this thread is that I also think Pie is beautiful and can't imagine why she can't or couldn't see that for herself.
There's a new book on the subject, Columbine
Debunking the myths of Columbine - CNN. link
very interesting. Completely at odds with the news reports I remember from the time, but that doesn't mean this new twist on the story is wrong.
I'm with lj. Teach your children to be strong, assertive, and eloquent. If a bully persists, teach them to punch their lights out.
No one has to be a victim if they know the best way out.
As someone who worked in schools for five years, the problem with that approach is that then they get in trouble too. It might solve the bully issue, but would certainly land them in the principal's office.
OH NOES. The principal's office? The horrors! ;)
edit: meaning...so? Kid goes into the principal's office and says "well you know what, I decided I'm not going to take their crap, do with that what you will."
I was thinking about this thread the other day.
I didn't say it while it was on point, but I was bullied for a while when i was like...11-13 yrs old. not real bad, just teased about being a virgin by kids a couple years older than me...(who, in retrospect, i'm sure, were also virgins) It bugged me then, and I guess that's why they kept on me about it. As bruce said, though....you empower the bully by reacting to it the way they want you to. If you cop to what they are teasing you about and maybe even laugh with them, .....they have no more power over you.....
Phoebe Prince, a recent Irish immigrant, hanged herself Jan. 14 after nearly three months of routine torment by students at South Hadley High School, via text message, and through the social networking site, Facebook.
Prince, a freshman, was reportedly harassed by older girls who resented her dating an older football player. Her death shook the town of South Hadley and prompted the Massachusetts legislature to pass a law introducing an anti-bullying curriculum in the state's public schools.
"The investigation revealed relentless activity directed toward Phoebe, designed to humiliate her and to make it impossible for her to remain at school," Scheibel said. "The bullying, for her, became intolerable."
"Nevertheless, the actions — or inactions — of some adults at the school are troublesome," she said.
The district attorney said school administrators knew of the bullying but none would be charged.
Prince hanged herself in her home, days after accepting an invitation to a winter school dance and only months after emigrating to the small western Massachusetts town from Ireland. Her younger sister found Prince's body in the stairwell leading to the family's second-story apartment.
Six of the teens will be indicted on charges connected to Prince's suicide. Three of the indicted students are girls, charged with violating Prince's civil rights, criminal harassment and disturbing a school assembly.
Two of the indicted students, a 17-year-old male and an 18-year-old male, will also be charged with statutory rape. Criminal complaints were filed against three other students.
Of the six indicted students, three are still students at the school and three were expelled in February.
Link