Virtual Learning

Hi

I'm new here. Nice to meet you all.
I was referred to this site from a book I was reading about lifelong learning.
I happened to wonder if any of you had used virtual colleges for degree courses or other and what your experiences were!
I live very rural and work strange hours so the usual enlist in a bricks and mortar adult education course isnt the thing for me.
I know that many Uni's and college's must be offering degree programme's completely online now, but where on earth do you start?

Any thoughts?

Cheers

Socrates

What book? And how was it mentioned?

The easiest way to start, IMO, is to look at schools that have the type of program you are looking for, then see if they offer that degree online. The one school I know where you can get a degree completely online is Old Dominion University in Norfolk, VA. I think the major choices are limited though.

Phoney doctor convicted in $4-million medicare fraud

Last Updated Mon Aug 12 14:39:36 2002

HAMILTON - Stephen Chung was given an 18-month conditional sentence on Monday after apparently providing quality health care to people in Hamilton over a period of 15 years.

Chung defrauded the provincial health care system of about $4.5 million, treating about 1,000 patients without ever graduating from medical school.

His 18-month conditional sentence includes 150 hours of community service. The Crown had asked for 18 to 24 months in jail.

The case is thought to be the largest medicare fraud in Canadian history.

Between 1983 and 1998, Chung practised medicine in Hamilton, Ont., earning a good reputation among his colleagues and without a single patient complaint to the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario.

A routine check of credentials by the college four years ago uncovered the fact that he had never graduated medical school.

The degree from a medical school in the Dominican Republic which he presented to get an Ontario medical insurance (OHIP) billing number was a phoney.

After flunking out of medical school at the University of Manitoba, Chung bought the fake diploma in 1981. He took the exams required for people with a foreign medical degree and applied for an internship at McMaster University in Hamilton. In 1983, he was granted an OHIP registration number.

The college checked the degrees of all 25,000 doctors registered in the province after it discovered a Michigan man without a valid degree had been briefly granted a number in 1995.

The college now verifies all degrees before granting a registration number.

As soon as Chung's phoney degree was uncovered, he was stripped of his licence and a police investigation started.

What book? And how was it mentioned?

The book was called Peak Learning by Ron Gross and it really gives the lowdown on self learning techniques rather than being drilled into it in an institutionally based learning enviroment.

The site(the cellar) was mentioned alongwith another one called the echo(San Fransisco) I think. They were recommended as sites which offered chat/discussion in an enviroment relatively nerd/porn/moron free.

You may want to check out Open University.

Originally posted by socrates
What book? And how was it mentioned?
The site(the cellar) was mentioned alongwith another one called the echo(San Fransisco) I think. They were recommended as sites which offered chat/discussion in an enviroment relatively nerd/porn/moron free.

Nerd free? Never. But is it possible that the one in SF was "The Well"? One thing about the Internet is that by the time information gets printed on paper, it may be obsolete. "Peak Learning" was originally published in 1999, and then a revised paperback edition came out in April 2001.

The Well and The Cellar do still exist, which is a tribute to the sense of community they fostered. But you really lucked out that they both still exist, allbeit in very differnt form from their original.

Kind of interesting that Mr. Gross uses the name "socrates" himself..

http://adulted.about.com/library/blchat-082300.htm
http://www.ronaldgross.com/socrates.html

Just a coincidence, right? :-)

Cellar got mentioned in a book?! Sweet!
Nerd free? Gotta be kidding.

Originally posted by jaguar
Cellar got mentioned in a book?! Sweet!

This isn't the first time. Read the history

Just a coincidence, right? :-)

Good catch, Maggie!

I have but its interesting that the web based version got a writeup, i guess this place is pretty unique.

Ron was such a smooth shill for his book here in the Cellar, he should be rewarded for his viral marketing with a little peak at Peak Learning.

I'd bet the book doesn't even mention the Cellar, though.

Like this place is moron free. Really! ;)

Live and learn, eh, Ron?

Originally posted by Nic Name
Ron was such a smooth shill for his book here in the Cellar, he should be rewarded for his viral marketing with a little peak...

Peek. :-)
And if socrates is here pimping his own book (not yet admitted or proven), It's not "viral marketing". It's astroturfing

Like this place is moron free. Really! ;)

*Relatively* moron free. And the ratio certainly has varied over time. :-)

Peek. :-)
And if socrates is here pimping his own book (not yet admitted or proven), It's not "viral marketing". It's astroturfing

Hi guys

I WISH! I dont know if you have had people on marketing their wares before, but I really dont think the author, Mr Gross, needs to.

Two things....

If I wanted to market my own book, I would not be covert.

I wish I had his money!

Can I ask. Is it normal to be so suspicious of a post?

This is the internet, we're all cynics.

Originally posted by socrates
Can I ask. Is it normal to be so suspicious of a post?

It's quite common to be suspicious of an identity; one can never be sure when one is dealing with a sockpuppet or a pseudo

The topic of online identity was a hot one in 1995-6, when Sherry Turkle published her <i>Life on the Screen: Identity in the Age of the Internet</i> , also at that time Judith Donath wrote <i>Identity and Deception in the Virtual Community</i>

But you haven't answered my question: A coincidence you selected "socrates" as a pseudonym? Or was it by design?

Originally posted by socrates

Can I ask. Is it normal to be so suspicious of a post?

Only abnormal posts.

This post was your first post in the Cellar. You haven't made many since. Your member details are not many, and you specify that you don't want to receive email through this community even though it would protect your privacy.

You haven't contributed much to the community, yet, but have so many questions. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it does raise suspicions in certain other circumstances.

Your first post mentions a book, which you praise in a follow-up post in this thread.

Your member name corresponds to the psuedomyn of the author of that book. The author of that book is very Internet savvy, having recently become a columnist in the adult learning section of about.com, which is the same subject as this thread.

Your first post is in a new thread started with the title Virtual Learning and your first post uses the terms "lifelong learning" which is the buzzword of the author.

You enquire about virtual learning, relating it to your personal situation being rural etc., implying that you might be considering such, but don't actually respond to any of the replies in this thread that deal with the subject of virtual learning ... only responding to those that mention the book.

You enquire about virtual learning, and ask about the experiences of the common folk in the Cellar, yet describe yourself as a sociology scholar in another thread.

You have only participated in three threads ... two started by yourself.

Is it common to be so suspicious of a post? No. Is it common for a post to be so suspicious? No.

While the identity of this member may not be "Mr." Gross (such deference!) it may well be someone from about.com shilling for their new alliance with Mr. Gross and the chats they've been running over there with "Socrates" this month.

You are quite right to suggest that Mr. Gross would be unlikely to shill his book on the Cellar. It probably has more to do with the marketing folks at About.com.

And, if that's the case, they must be delighted with this thread. ;)

Originally posted by Nic Name
This post was your first post in the Cellar. You haven't made many since. Your member details are not many, and you specify that you don't want to receive email through this community even though it would protect your privacy.

Though you present other good arguments Nic, the member details one is not a good one IMO. I don't have my e-mail option on (b/c people can use the PM), not to mention you yourself don't have many details and use a fake URL (or rather, one that doesn't appear to be yours). And many of your initial posts (and still to a degree today) are links or pics. :)

Originally posted by socrates

I know that many Uni's and college's must be offering degree programme's completely online now, but where on earth do you start?

This statement by a "sociology scholar" must certainly have been laying some pipe for a subsequent reference to About.com.

What sociology scholar calls a University a Uni?

As might be obvious, my reference to www.nicname.com a Korean website, was not intended to mislead any dwellar but the most clueless. It's a joke, for those who discover it. I've made it clear that I'm a Canadian, living in Toronto, and have made many contributions to the discussion in the Cellar ... not many rants, though. I have accepted email from members and replied to some providing my return email.

I don't take issue with socrates anonymity ... what's being questioned is motive. Socrates doesn't have to deal with these suspicions. But we don't have to be played for morons by the likes of Mr. Market, Dream Weaver and others who enter the Cellar with ulterior motives, however cleverly disguised.

I could be wrong. And socrates could answer our questions. Or maybe, he'd prefer hemlock.

What sociology scholar calls a University a Uni?


Eh, Me?

I really have chuckled at how these posts go off in tangents. I mean really, are some of you having acid flash backs or is there an air of paranioa gently rolling on the cellar virtual network.

I mean, really, come on,.....

pimping a book, pretending to be someone else..

lol

You are quite right to suggest that Mr. Gross would be unlikely to shill his book on the Cellar. It probably has more to do with the marketing folks at About.com.


Oh jees, stop please lol

My sides are splitting

lol lol LOL

Seems to be quite a bit of lolling around in here.

Originally posted by socrates

I really have chuckled at how these posts go off in tangents.

It's called "topic drift" and it's really quite common. You still haven't answered the question re your choice of moniker: "deliberate or coincidence?" Pushing a little topic drift of your own, maybe? That text laughter is starting to sound a little nervous.

It's called "topic drift" and it's really quite common. You still haven't answered the question re your choice of moniker: "deliberate or coincidence?" Pushing a little topic drift of your own, maybe? That text laughter is starting to sound a little nervous.

Sorry for laughing, but really.

Anyone care to look at the start of the thread and notice that I was asked for the name of the book. All I wanted was tips on virtual learning, but the secret police in their own self importance wished otherwise.

Next.

Why socrates. Why not. A very popular name. Inspired many people. Ever wondered why you get companies called Amazon ,get software called copernic[us] or get helicopters called cobra's


Maybe it's because someone used a popular name, place or thing from the past or present to label their baby.

The jury is hereby sequestered until resolution. May justice be swift.

Originally posted by socrates

All I wanted was tips on virtual learning ...

What did you think of the Open University?

So, you're saying "It's just a coincidence".

You'll find that folks online will tend to discuss whatever they want to discuss...and while Socrates (the original one) preferred to <b>pose</b> questions rather than answering them, we tend to be a little more bidirectional around here. Don't confuse "starting a thread" with "being in the driver's seat".

My best tip on "Virtual/lifelong/peak learning" is: "learn how to surf the Web". People have dreamed of such a resource for ages ; now it's here on your doorstep at very low cost. Intelligent use of a search engine will teach you more about most subjects than almost anything else you can do in a classroom/office setting.

Originally posted by MaggieL
My best tip on "Virtual/lifelong/peak learning" is: "learn how to surf the Web". People have dreamed of such a resource for ages ; now it's here on your doorstep at very low cost. Intelligent use of a search engine will teach you more about most subjects than almost anything else you can do in a classroom/office setting.

I agree. Learning how search engines really work was one of the best things i've ever learned. Once you know how they work, it's much easier to use them to find what you need.

Once you learn that, you should learn how to sort the "wheat from the chaff", so to speak. Like, if you're searching for one thing in particular, you should be able to click a link, and size up whether or not a particular page might be what you're looking for within 2-3 seconds. If you just sit there reading every web page that google gives you, you will never find what you want. Newbies in real life are always telling met to slow down when i'm trying to find something for them, 'cause when I start looking, I skim pages extremely fast. It's not that i'm not looking very hard, it's just that with 1 million pages in results, you've got to make snap judgements.

After that, no bit of information is out of your reach. So then you've got to decide what it is you want to learn, and then go do it. I learned HTML and Linux completely through online resources.

The subject of Virtual Degrees is covered in a current article in Wired.

As juju and MaggieL point out, the Internet is the key to universal access to knowledge.

Accreditation is another issue.

What is your objective for online learning, Socrates?

Originally posted by juju

Once you learn that, you should learn how to sort the "wheat from the chaff", so to speak. Like, if you're searching for one thing in particular, you should be able to click a link, and size up whether or not a particular page might be what you're looking for within 2-3 seconds.

And tabbed browsing with background loading is the best thing that ever happened to this technique. You can scream though the hit list triggering the load of pages that look like candidates based on the hit context, page title and URL...then investigate the candidate hits as they finish loading. If you're lucky and you're on Mozilla, chances are good you can read important content in the page *before* it finishes loading. Tabbed browsing is already available in Moz, as well as in Opera and recent versions of Konqueror. I'm sure people who insist on using IE will have it eventually; it's simply a feature that's too good not to have. I hear Opera is getting a new rewrite of their HTML renderer too, which might make it more Gecko-like.

The other kick-butt feature for surfing with high productivity is an entry on the browser context menu that lets you highlight text on a page and kick off a search window based on the text. I can think of a couple of enhancements I'd like to see for this: one would be placing quotes around the search text so you only match the entire phrase contiguously ather than pages that simply have each of the search words somewhere. Another nice-to-have would be running the search in a new tab rather than a new window. If I ever take the time to get jiggy with XUL maybe I'll hack out one or both of those features.

A black-belt searching skill is carefully selecting search terms...many English words are "overloaded" with more than one meaning; you're toast if you are searching a secondary meaning of a commomly-used term. Either you have to come up with a synonym that's free of collisions, or identify a synonym for the colliding term, and filter that *out* of the search. Alternatively you can intersect with another term from the target domain and hope it filters out the false hits.

Ferinstance...suppose you're interested in the aerobatic maneuver that involves autorotation of a stalled airplane. That's commonly called a "spin", but you need to block out the noise created by folks talking about the process that creates thread from fibers, the art of controlling public attention and interpretation, and several other topics.

Since there's really no other word for the aerobatic manuver, you're gonna have to intersect with other words from aviation, like "stall", "autorotation" or "aresti"(the name of the inventor of a notation for aerobatic maneuvers) if you're interested in deliberate spins. Obviously (and unfortunately, for novices) the more you know about a topic the more efficiently you can search and navigate it, since the semantic web of related concepts is better known to you as you learn more.

Tools like Kartoo and The PlumbDesign Visual Thesaurus can be helpful searching unfamiliar territory, or revealing unsupected connections.

Hey

How are you all?

I am interested in a number of things ftr. Social Science incorporating sociology, economics. Mathematics inc probability. Foreign Languages.

I have just read 'Against the Gods' by Bernstein. Fantastic. Bye the way, before anyone asks, I am not the author or the marketing department or from about.com.{sorry, had to sneak that in}

Maggie, your thoughts struck a chord with me. Yeah, all the stuff about search engines. Where do I start?

What one will I use? What browser? How do I find out more?

What is she talking about? It's this:



I took the above post, highlighted the words I was curious about, and right-clicked. I went down to "Web Search..." Having selected Google as my default search engine, the Google results for those search terms came up in a new window.

The first result was the book itself in Yahoo Shopping, which gave me enough information to be intrigued by it.

All this is available in the newly-released Mozilla 1.1, which you can find at mozilla.org. If you're not ready to convert completely, you can keep IE as your main browser while you play with Mozilla.

But once you find the tabbed browsing feature of Mozilla, you won't go back.

It's like, in order to do well in college, you need to learn how to <i>learn</i>. Well, in order to do well on the web, you need to learn how to <i>find information</i>. It really is a learned skill.

Here's a good place to start.

What Toad said.

For search engine I like Google. I'm currently on 1.0 of Mozilla, but that's basically because I'm lazy. IE is not an issue here because Windows is not an operating system here; this household uses Linux exclusively.

Using a search engine is a skill I've been honing since *long* before there was WWW or Gopher, or even a widely available Internet. The data available to me for automated searching back then was bug reports, documentation and source code for IBM mainframe operating systems and software products. A lot of the same principles applied then as apply today, it's just an unimaginably larger corpus of information available under search.

Certainly is an art to it. I think the biggest problem people have is looking for what they want, rather than the terms that will be on the page.

Once you know how to choose the right search words, search engine and become good at judging the quality of a page quickly, the biggist problem still remains distraction. I find I have to struggle to remain fixed on what it is I wanted to search for in the first place. A technique I have found to help is to keep a text file with a list of interesting topics I have stumbled over and when ever I can if I come across something interesting I try to add it to the list rather than follow it. If I then later catch myself surfing for no reason, like now :), then I reach for the text file and instead follow one of it's topics. At least that way I try to alway have a search focus, and although I still mght be procastinating from work at least I am following genuine interests.

Originally posted by Yelof
A technique I have found to help is to keep a text file with a list of interesting topics I have stumbled over...

Another way to tackle that uses tabbed browsing. When you recognize a conceptual digression like that, launch a new browser window, and spawn the new topic over to it by dragging the icon from the URL in the navbar to it. Then minimize the new browse window until later when you're ready to pick it up. If you need a persistant pointer outside your normal bookmark set, the icon can be dragged to your desktop, or a folder on your desktop, rather than a browser window. This eliminates the hassle of keeping a text file for this stuff.

Also, some folks don't realize you can bookmark a *group* of URLs in Moz. Do bookmarks/file bookmarks; there's a file-as-group checkbox in the dialog box. This saves a bookmark with URLs for *all* the open tabs in it; opening the bookmark opens all the URLs in tabs again. Handy.

So, when Ron publishes "browser tips from the experts", we'll all know where he got it. :-)

eserver.org will keep a virtual scholar entertained for life.

Very cool link, Nic Name and thank you. That is exactly what I was looking for!

Cookie's used to be so simple!
Just mix them up and throw them in the oven and hey presto, snack away!

Now everyone is sending you them!

What I would like to know from you informed and learned regulars is, what kind of information does a cookie hold?

Does it tell a website your computer ID, your ISP address, dial up number, e-mail info, your favourite websites, your other cookie info?

Thanks guys

socrates

Here's a weblog about Online Learning News & Research that might be of interest to this thread's readers.

Soc, I missed that before... basically cookies are much less harmful than they've been made out to be. A cookie is a way for a web site to manage your information, which can be just about anything. There are much bigger security concerns these days.

Socrates, this looks very interesting ...

MITOPENCOURSEWARE

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