93 Year Old WWII Vet Freezes to Death at Home...
"I've said this before and some of my colleagues have said this: Neighbors need to keep an eye on neighbors," Belleman said. "When they think there's something wrong, they should contact the appropriate agency or city department."
Sadly, this is the only answer. If he was not in a position to come to an agreement with the electricity people - and older people often aren't, having been raised to obey orders and respect authority - then there are no warning signs for the electricity company.
They cannot know whether the user lives with children and grandchildren who are capable of dealing with this, whether he is short of funds and refusing to pay, whether he needs social care. They are a business after all.
I do feel this is very sad (we have cold weather payments in this country to help the 60+ and higher for the 80+) but it could happen here as well. I'd like to think that our OAPs would at least have daily carers that they could speak to, but tbh my Grandad often only mentions things in passing. Like to Mum - there's wires coming out of my bedside lamp. X (carer) mentioned it the other week. Mum went off her nut - why didn't you TELL me?! You could have been electrocuted! And straight off to Argos to get a new one, all the while blaming herself for not checking every single appliance in Grandad's bungalow on her daily visits.
I like this part: "[Bay City Manager Robert Belleman]... said Bay City Electric Light & Power's policies will be reviewed, but he didn't believe the city did anything wrong."
Maybe we need to rethink our definition of wrong and right.
It should be against the law for a utility to pull the plug on a customer for unpaid bills if the temperature is below freezing. Cut him off in the spring.
I agree. Can't a little humanity remain, even if it is business?
Our paper reported that those that found him also found his bill on the kitchen table with a large sum of cash paper clipped to it, so it seems he was going to pay it.
I wonder if he served with Patton's army when it went through Germany in the winter, he might have believed he was reliving that experience.
This article also quotes the medical person doing the autopsy as saying he died a slow and painful death but I think I've read that death by freezing is not so painful as you just slip off into a sort of coma.
It should be against the law for a utility to pull the plug on a customer for unpaid bills if the temperature is below freezing. Cut him off in the spring.
I agree, regardless of what he did in the 40's.
It should be against the law for a utility to pull the plug on a customer for unpaid bills if the temperature is below freezing. Cut him off in the spring.
Why?
it is a business designed to make money. While this outcome is terrible, the reality is it is not the company's responsibility to provide anything for free. The man, family, friends, or neighbors should have been able to spot a problem and take the proper steps to prevent this.
Then where should we set the line cutoff line for those unable to pay and those unwilling to pay?
I could be mistaken, but I believe PA has a law against utilities being shut off if there are children in the home. I know it doesn't apply in this case and it's a different state, but the arguement can be made...if so for children, why not for seniors. He was 93 for Christ's sake!
Edit: I believe the PA law is if there are children in the home AND it is winter. Should have been more clear.
Why?
it is a business designed to make money. While this outcome is terrible, the reality is it is not the company's responsibility to provide anything for free. The man, family, friends, or neighbors should have been able to spot a problem and take the proper steps to prevent this.
It could be a problem of population density and city living as well. I know in places that you tend to live close together more people are apt to just mind their own business, and most want you to stay out of it. And then there is the assumption that someone else is always doing the thing that you considered doing yourself, like checking in on the old guy from time to time.
Do you really think there was some guy sitting at the power company laughing with his buddies and saying, "Watch this poor old bastard. He made it to 93 but I got him now."?
If noone had spoken with the company to raise flags then what are they supposed to do?
***
Mind you I'm not arguing in favor of freezing 93 year olds, but the knee jerk reaction towards the evil company is a little overdone.
Found this in a news story from KDKA...
Under the law, utilities can shut off your service for failing to pay your bills -- even in the winter.
There are exceptions -- for medical reasons, of course -- and here's a big exception.
From December 1st until March 31st, utilities cannot be shut off if your family income is below 250 percent of poverty.
That means for a couple, utilities cannot be shut off if family income is below $35,000 a year. For a family of four, there can be no winter shut-off if your family income is below $53,000.
Do you really think there was some guy sitting at the power company laughing with his buddies and saying, "Watch this poor old bastard. He made it to 93 but I got him now."?
If noone had spoken with the company to raise flags then what are they supposed to do?
***
Mind you I'm not arguing in favor of freezing 93 year olds, but the knee jerk reaction towards the evil company is a little overdone.
I think if the electric company is going to take such a drastic measure in the middle of winter, they should damn well know who is in that house. That's all.
Found this in a news story from KDKA...
Under the law, utilities can shut off your service for failing to pay your bills -- even in the winter.
There are exceptions -- for medical reasons, of course -- and here's a big exception.
From December 1st until March 31st, utilities cannot be shut off if your family income is below 250 percent of poverty.
That means for a couple, utilities cannot be shut off if family income is below $35,000 a year. For a family of four, there can be no winter shut-off if your family income is below $53,000.
35K cannot be 250% below poverty. And 53K sure the hell is not.
Look at his date of birth (in their records)? Some sort of logic loop like:
if ($Customer_Age > 70)
{
$action->Followup($family);
}
Now, really, was that so hard?
Why?
Utilities are not your standard business. They get special treatment. They have their wires all over land that they do not own. They are permitted a virtual monopoly to provide power (or gas) in a given area. They get that special treatment because they provide a critical service.
It should be part of the deal they have with us that they follow certain rules before turning off service for lack of payment.
If you are a landlord (and you know this) you have to follow certain rules before you evict someone. Why should it be any different for turning off someone's power when it's below freezing?
How many months can you go without being shut off up there? In Arizona you can go a bit over 90 days before they put the warning tag on your door. The bright red 5 x 11 tag says "Please contact us to make arrangements and avoid loss of power". If there is no contact within a week the power is cut. It isn't a surprise when things get shut off.
When I've gotten shutoff notices from PECO/Exelon, they always have in big print the number you should call right away if there is anyone infirm in the house.
There's a lot we still would need to know. Did he have family close by? If so, why were they not in contact with him or otherwise helping him? Was he suffering from dementia? If so, that would explain his non-response to any shut-off notices.
I agree dmg, but we're talking about one really unfortunate, bizarre example. if it wasn't rare, it wouldn't be worthy of a news story. people fall through the cracks sometimes. sad, but true. my point was simply that the company is not responsible for doing anything more than they did unless they were contacted for assistance.
I agree dmg, but we're talking about one really unfortunate, bizarre example. if it wasn't rare, it wouldn't be worthy of a news story. people fall through the cracks sometimes. sad, but true. my point was simply that the company is not responsible for doing anything more than they did unless they were contacted for assistance.
And my point is that they should be. If they followed the rules and this guy ended up dead, then the rules are bad and need to change.
The utility didn't shut off the power, they installed a current limiter, which restricts the amount of power he could use.
A city utility worker had installed a "limiter" device to restrict the use of electricity at Schur's home on Jan. 13, Belleman said. The device limits power reaching a home and blows out like a fuse if consumption rises past a set level. Power is not restored until the device is reset.
one man fell through the cracks and that means a whole company needs to change the way it does business?
The utility didn't shut off the power, they installed a current limiter, which restricts the amount of power he could use.
A limiter which shuts off the power if he surpasses the "allowed" useage of power. What is allowed? One space heater? Two space heaters? Hell, he could have been asleep when the limiter killed the power in turn killing him.
I agree that it is a bizarre example and one that fell through the cracks. However, how many times have we heard the phrase "if one innocent person is wrongly executed, it's one too many."? Now...I AM NOT saying he was executed by the electric company!!! I am just making the comparison...one slipping through the cracks like this is one too many. Especially someone this age. It's just terrible.
"if one innocent person is wrongly executed, it's one too many."?
You're barking up the wrong tree with me on that one. ;)
However, how many times have we heard the phrase "if one innocent person is wrongly executed, it's one too many."? Now...I AM NOT saying he was executed by the electric company!!! I am just making the comparison...one slipping through the cracks like this is one too many. Especially someone this age. It's just terrible.
You can't be serious. We are about to enter the largest age of what is good for the greater masses and not for the individual. Those on the margins of the bell curve will be left off by design. Better get use to it.
You're barking up the wrong tree with me on that one. ;)
It was just an example...I'm pro-capital punishment myself.
You can't be serious. We are about to enter the largest age of what is good for the greater masses and not for the individual. Those on the margins of the bell curve will be left off by design. Better get use to it.
I hope I'm not on the margain. Although I do feel margainilized much of the time. :neutral:
If he had a working telephone then he need not have gone without power. The media loves this type of story, and they would have kept the power on. It is a sad story but I'm not going to condemn the utility company unless more damning evidence comes to light. And btw, if I cannot afford electricity, please freeze me in winter rather than cutting off the A/C in summer, okay? Thank you!
I wouldn't be surprised if this article had a lot of spin to it since a lot of information was left out. There should have been some contact between the power company and the WWII Vet though, that was a very large mistake (unless that was not included in the article).
TheMercenary, from the picture it looks like he lived in a low density neighborhood. But that could mean anything and that "neighbors should watch neighbors" is a bad argument.
What if we had to chop firewood to survive?
TheMercenary, from the picture it looks like he lived in a low density neighborhood. But that could mean anything and that "neighbors should watch neighbors" is a bad argument.
I didn't say that they should and that was not an arguement I made. What I said was:
there is the assumption that someone else is always doing the thing that you considered doing yourself, like checking in on the old guy from time to time.
My wording was bad. I was commenting on the article making the "neighbors should watch neighbors" argument. The only thing I meant to reference to you is the low density neighborhood part.
And what if he was a very grumpy, irritating and disagreeable old man? If a person has no one in their lives to turn to in times of trouble, chances are they fit the above description.
Maybe he gave the utilities company a serve when he got his overdue notice? Maybe he has a history of not paying bills?
If the utilities company followed normal proceedures, then they've done nothing wrong, particularly if this is an isolated case, which it appears to be. Why blame big business for doing what's considered normal? That being, user pays policies. If you don't pay, you don't get.
And while we discussed this, how many homeless Americans froze to death on the streets? Perhaps even War vets? Who "should" have looked out for them?
but they aren't more important than the 93yo, so how come obama is not responsible for him too?
Who said he wasn't?
To be serous. In the way that our social structure is set up, very nomadic and not very communal, it becomes very tough for people who can not look out for themselves. In other cultures, this person would be living with family and try to find of a homeless Somali.
Point is that our way of life has both positive and negative aspects. This is one negative aspect and when we live in a society that does not have many safety nets for the old and alone, incidents like this will happen. It is sad and I believe we should work to avoid these situations on a reasonable level, but unless we decide to change our culture altogether, events like these are inevitable.
Maybe the dude didn't have anybody to look after him because he was a prick.
[size=1]Come on, it's possible[/size]
Yes, but do pricks deserve to freeze to death? :neutral:
In other cultures, this person would be living with family and try to find of a homeless Somali..
eh?
I ran this through babelfish and it didn't make sense in any language.
eh?
I ran this through babelfish and it didn't make sense in any language.
It is extremely rare to find a homeless Somali because mosques will provide shelter for any Muslim. Our culture doesn't provide as much shelter for the homeless as different cultures do (in reasonable amounts of course). Since our culture differs in this way, one negative aspect is that people can easily get left out in the cold.
The point is that very few resources go into taking care of the homeless because of how our culture works. The same can be said about 93 year old men, especially if they are old pricks.
What do you mean by "our culture"? Do we have only one?
I'm still trying to figure out why we should take care of the homeless ...
Pennsylvania has an emergency heating assistance program for low income individuals and families (LiHEAP), and also won't shut you off when there's code blue or code red type weather going on.
Just...humanity?
This.
Yes they are businesses, but they are also amongst the providers of the country's basic infrastructure. They take on the rewards as they take on the responsiblity.
I just thought someone should note that it was not a business that killed this man, it is a municipal operation.
oh, ok, thanks, goddit now. More punctuation preferred :lol: (not that I would have got it then either, but I at least wouldn't have wasting time wondering how a person living with their family would be helped by a finding a homeless Somali.... :rolleyes:)
I just thought someone should note that it was not a business that killed this man, it is a municipal operation.
I was under the impression the man was killed by extremely cold temperatures... but I get your point.
What do you mean by "our culture"? Do we have only one?
I do not mean to say American culture is completely homogeneous, which is obviously false but I am generalizing. We as Americans do share a general culture, but that doesn't mean their aren't variations or subcultures between them. "Rural culture", "suburban culture", and even "urban culture", while different, share the same basic values as opposed to Arab culture, where the value system is much different.
It would be like commenting on the American political spectrum. Yes, there are Republicans and Democrats and they do have their differences but those differences are very minisual compared to Fuedalism, Fascism, Monarchism, or communism. Both Democrats and Republicans stem from the same basic values while monarchy and fuedalism stemed from different values, hence why they are so different and would never be accepted by Americans.
I was under the impression the man was killed by extremely cold temperatures... but I get your point.
Thank you Mister Knowitall. ;)
And while we discussed this, how many homeless Americans froze to death on the streets? Perhaps even War vets? Who "should" have looked out for them?
Why would it matter if they were vets?
Maybe the dude didn't have anybody to look after him because he was a prick.
[size=1]Come on, it's possible[/size]
I am so sorry to the dudes family but that was a :lol2:
It is extremely rare to find a homeless Somali because mosques will provide shelter for any Muslim. Our culture doesn't provide as much shelter for the homeless as different cultures do (in reasonable amounts of course). Since our culture differs in this way, one negative aspect is that people can easily get left out in the cold.
The point is that very few resources go into taking care of the homeless because of how our culture works. The same can be said about 93 year old men, especially if they are old pricks.
No comparison. Really, I hear this all the time. It does not matter if it is economics, military issues, politics, etc. There is no way you can compare our society to many of the European and Middle Eastern societies because of many things, and I know that you know all of this. If you are going to compare our society to any other you could use China and Russia based on diversity and demographics alone, but even those cannot compare. I find it funny how people want to compare our healthcare system to those that are about 1/50th the size of ours as one example. The list is endless of poor comparisons. If anyone doubts this hit me up with your best example.
Merc, by your reasoning then no other culture or economy or blah blah can be compared to that of the US considering the situation.
I think it's naive to think that lessons can't be learned from others who are perhaps not so powerful or established or wealthy.
Merc, by your reasoning then no other culture or economy or blah blah can be compared to that of the US considering the situation.
I think it's naive to think that lessons can't be learned from others who are perhaps not so powerful or established or wealthy.
My point is the comparisons are not so easily transferable. That is a fact.
I'm more disturbed that the population of the world doubled in just 40 years.
My point is the comparisons are not so easily transferable. That is a fact.
Well, I don't think comparisons are meant to be an exact science. When making a comparison, you acknowledge both the similarities and the differences in order to reach some conclusive thought.
For example, many people have compared my extended family to that of an Italian or Greek family structure, but we're definitely not the same. For one thing, we speak a different language and eat different food, and there's not the same strict heirarchy, and we have a different religion, and a different culture, but there are definitely some striking similarities in that we all know our second and third cousins and associate regularly, and in general, any minor feuds are patched up pretty quickly for the sake of 'the family' at large in order to create a good environment/example for the kids. We've stuck together when lots of other families are becoming very nuclear.
For example the population of Sweden is aproximately 9,045,389, the UK 60,943,912, Australia' 21,007,310. There is no way in hell you can compare those countries healthcare systems, based on various tax schemes, politics, social issues, demographics, etc based on a country like the US with a population of aproximately 303,824,640. No way.
Plenty of others seem to manage to compare various health care systems world wide.
For example, you could say that compared to the US, the current health care system in Somalia is very bad.
Anyone can make a comparison of any two (or more) things. Just because you don't agree, doesn't mean the comparison is invalid.
No, Somalia's health care plan has never been floated in this country as something to behold and to be emulated. The others have and they would not work in the same way with the same set of rules that those countries have as the basis for their plans.
I think the reason Australian and UK health care systems are compared to that of the US so often is simply because as nations we do share similar (multi) cultures and the basic structures are also very similar.
I'm sure there are some great things about the US health care system, but from what I have learned, I definitely prefer the one we have here because medical assistance seems so much more accessible and affordable for everyone. In saying that though, I have to acknowledge that it is a biased view. If I lived in a rural area I doubt I'd feel the same or if I were an indigenous person living in a remote community.
Each has good and bad points, and I think the point of making the comparison between different countries is to inform ourselves on what we're failing in and what we're succeeding in.
We as Americans do share a general culture, but that doesn't mean their aren't variations or subcultures between them. "Rural culture", "suburban culture", and even "urban culture", while different, share the same basic values as opposed to Arab culture, where the value system is much different.
What about the ethnic subcultures. They have very diverse value systems and care for their ill, elderly or infirm in many different ways.
Plenty of others seem to manage to compare various health care systems world wide.
Most of them would be politicians. Just like statistics, they make their point and then use a comparison, good or bad - valid or not, to justify it.
Most of them would be politicians. Just like statistics, they make their point and then use a comparison, good or bad - valid or not, to justify it.
Well I was implying that everyday people don't seem to have a difficulty in making comparisons. It happens on this board all the time.
We very rarely have reports of our health care system being compared to that of other countries in the media here. Mainly it's reports about what's wrong and what should be fixed and how much it will cost according to what person.
I think the reason Australian and UK health care systems are compared to that of the US so often is simply because as nations we do share similar (multi) cultures and the basic structures are also very similar.
I'm sure there are some great things about the US health care system, but from what I have learned, I definitely prefer the one we have here because medical assistance seems so much more accessible and affordable for everyone. In saying that though, I have to acknowledge that it is a biased view. If I lived in a rural area I doubt I'd feel the same or if I were an indigenous person living in a remote community.
Each has good and bad points, and I think the point of making the comparison between different countries is to inform ourselves on what we're failing in and what we're succeeding in.
It reminds me of the time on active duty and while on exchange with UK forces. They marveled at how big our forces resources were while I marveled at the simplicity of their structure. Great observations and there is much we can learn from each other, but to think that we can simply solve each others problems by adapting the others process and structure is pure fantasy. Same goes for our health care systems.
I agree. We have a totally different economic structure here and the UK is different again. I see Australia as being somewhere in the middle of the US and the UK as far as health care goes.
No comparison. Really, I hear this all the time. It does not matter if it is economics, military issues, politics, etc. There is no way you can compare our society to many of the European and Middle Eastern societies because of many things, and I know that you know all of this. If you are going to compare our society to any other you could use China and Russia based on diversity and demographics alone, but even those cannot compare. I find it funny how people want to compare our healthcare system to those that are about 1/50th the size of ours as one example. The list is endless of poor comparisons. If anyone doubts this hit me up with your best example.
Reread my post and the point of my post. I never compared economics, military issues, politics, or health benefits. In fact, you will find out that we are making the same exact point.
What about the ethnic subcultures. They have very diverse value systems and care for their ill, elderly or infirm in many different ways.
Explain what you mean.
Ethnic Somalis living in the United States usually practice Somali culture with obvious American, more African-American in this case, traits. If you are using their value systems I wouldn't call it American.
I don't know if we are on the same page or not.
No PH, I wasn't talking about Somalis at all.
Explain what you mean.
Ethnic Somalis living in the United States usually practice Somali culture with obvious American, more African-American in this case, traits. If you are using their value systems I wouldn't call it American.
I don't know if we are on the same page or not.
Dude, you are drifting out to sea.
No PH, I wasn't talking about Somalis at all.
I was using them as an example. Why didn't you define ethnic subcultures as I asked?
Explain what you mean.
Do you mean Chinese-American versus European American, do you mean rural America versus suburban America, or do you mean something completely different?
Either way, since the Oakland County police officers dealt with the problem, we can conclude that he lived in the bay area. That either means he lived in a urban or suburban environment. In either of those environments, there sometimes is no safety net for people who are alone and this is the result. The government doesn't have a responsibility, the utility company doesn't have a responsibility, his family doesn't have a responsibility.
In both suburban and rural areas, people live a very independent lifestyle so it is no surprise that something like this will happen every once in a while. Precautions should be taken, but they cannot be guaranteed 100% effective.
Sorry PH - my drift was far beyond yours. If you were in the ocean as merc said, then I was nearing Jupiter.
I was going in the direction of the Chinese-American, Asian-American and so on. The many varied cultures in America deal with this type of issue and many similar to it, in very different ways. That is all I was thinking about.
...
Either way, since the Oakland County police officers dealt with the problem, we can conclude that he lived in the bay area. That either means he lived in a urban or suburban environment...
Just a point of clarification - he lived in the small city of
Bay City, Michigan, which is in Bay County, and which is located right on the web (that area where the thumb meets the rest of the hand). Incidentally, this is the town which the
Bay City Rollers named themselves after.
Hmm......thinking about this again.....I really don't think this could ever happen near Oakland.
It should be against the law for a utility to pull the plug on a customer for unpaid bills if the temperature is below freezing. Cut him off in the spring.
They didn't pull the plug. They installed a device at the meter which cuts the power off if the usage exceeds a certain rate. The resident is able to go to the device and turn it back on immediately - just like a breaker. Apparently, there were 61 such devices in service at the time Mr. Schur died. All 61 have subsequently been removed.
Also interesting is that the Michigan Public Service Commission does not allow electric service to be disconnected at all between Nov 1 and April 1 for any reason. However, municipal utility companies are not subject to this regulation. Perhaps that will change now.
While this is indeed tragic, I think the lynch mob mentality being directed at the power company is a bit over the top.
I agree. I don't think any of us really have all the facts her, but it appears as if something went terribly wrong and finding out the truth now will be very difficult as everyone will now be in CYA mode.
I'm sure I read earlier that his wife had died and they had had no children.
So the closest relatives are likely to be nieces/ nephews, who would likely be 60+ themselves, more likely older. And if either or both were an only child (less common 93 years ago of course) they may not even have had that.
It's a horrible thing to have happened, but given that he is supposed to have left a wad of cash out ready to pay the bill it seems just an unhappy chain of events.
It turns out he had $600,000 in assets, which he has left to an area hospital.
and there you have it. the old man died of his own stupidity.
And he left the CEO of the hospital a nest egg. Nice.
I wonder what the assets were - could have been just the house and somme life insurance - who knows? I agree with lookout to a degree in that he was either stupid, stubborn, or had Alzheimers...
and there you have it. the old man died of his own stupidity.
No really fair.
He was 93 years of age.
Both forgetfulness and fear of going out in adverse conditions are the norm at that age.
Not only not fair, but cold and heartless too.
I don't think dementia played a part in this, considering he was ready to pay the bill with the money on the table and paperclipped to it. He knew the bill was due.
My question is why did he let it get so far behind as to let it get shut off in the first place? He found a way to get out to get groceries (or if the grocery store delievered, he at least had contact with someone...via phone or regular delivery service.
The bill should have been paid on time. I don't feel sorry for him. He lived a long life, and served our country, and I hope he's in the place of his belief system that he wanted to be. But I'm *not* pissed at the utility. At all. Not even a little bit.
lol..."don't feel sorry for him." A lot of bloody help that would be (to borrow from my British friends) to a dead man. Wasn't there a movie: Dead Men Don't Need Sympathy?
No offense, it just struck me as funny. ;)
I don't think dementia played a part in this, considering he was ready to pay the bill with the money on the table and paperclipped to it. He knew the bill was due.
Him being aware a bill was due and getting the money ready doesn't necessarily take dementia (or just confusion or more general memory problems) out of the picture. It just means he was aware at the time he was getting the money ready that there was a bill coming up. Whether or not he was able to get out of the house to pay it, and whether or not he was aware of the date and a bunch of other stuff, we'll never know.
My question is why did he let it get so far behind as to let it get shut off in the first place? He found a way to get out to get groceries (or if the grocery store delievered, he at least had contact with someone...via phone or regular delivery service.
Again, we'll never know. We have no idea the level of that man's competance at the time of his death. My uncle Allan used to interact very well with delivery people and customer service people over the phone, and I bet not a one of them was aware he was as mad as a bicycle. Bought all kinds of stuff for home delivery. Knew exactly what he wanted. Knew the cost of all the stuff he wanted. Totally unaware he was being ripped off on his pension by a 'friend' who used to do his regular grocery shopping for him. Competancy isn't absolute. It can be very specific and isn't always easy to quantify.
Can I ask a stupid question? Can they really tell the difference between "froze to death" and "died of natural causes and then was frozen because the regulator shut off the heat and he couldn't go turn it back on because he was dead?" The original article refers to a medical examiner doing an autopsy, so they obviously think they're sure about it, I'm just not sure how they can tell the difference.
I think there are definite differences in decomposition for one. If a person dies in a warm room decomposition sets in right away, and would be noticeable by the time the body froze. If a person freezes to death there are some cellular changes that take place during the process, but I don't remember them off the top of my head.
A good forensics person can tell just about anything from a dead body. It's pretty amazing.
Well, except for why he had 600Grand and an unpaid bill.
I wouldn't doubt depression for a minute. Anyone who's had it will tell you it can be a day's work getting psyched up to go to the mailbox. It doens't matter how much dough you have.
A good forensics person can tell just about anything from a dead body. It's pretty amazing.
My lovely Uncle Charlie died on the toilet (like Elvis - but that's the only similarity between them).
He wasn't discovered for two weeks - at least they assume it was two weeks, that's the longest time he ever went without contact with either of his brothers anyway.
It was summer. Hot (not necessarily a given in this country).
They were unable to ascertain exactly what he died from
because he was too decomposed to autopsy.
Not really relevant, just thought I'd share it. I loved Uncle Charlie, but I do get a ghoulish pleasure from the manner of his death. And I'm pretty sure he'd have got a kick out of that too.