Plane Crash in Husdon River 16th Jan 2009
Everyone rescued! Amazing! Great job people!!!
Yea, I have been watching it live as well. Pretty damm good job by a pilot and a large dose of good luck.
Actually, I suppose it's the 15th over there. Silly me.
Still, it's an impressive fact that everyone survived.
It's a cold day to be sitting in the Hudson River.
Looks like they got them all out of the water pretty quickly though which is a good thing. Hyperthermia wouldn't take long in those temps.
Most interesting was how fast the passenger ferry boats arrived on the scene. They must have some sort of partnership with the coast guard.
You must remember,NYC has a thing about disasters.they pull together when the going gets rough
I think there is YouTube of this plane ingesting a big ole goose in the No. 2 engine -- righthand side -- just on rotation to take off. Big fire, then on-off-on-off orange flame shooting out the pipe. That says that engine was totally wrecked. Just saw the footage on Fox News.
But I think with the ferryboats it was more a case of everybody seeing the plane going in the river: "Holy shit, it's crashing! Get over there!" Good thing the water was shallow. Ended up with all those people wading to safety along the wing.
Outstanding performance on the part of the pilot. Incredible response on the part of New York City.
This could have been a hideous tragedy. Instead, it is an inspirational tale showing the absolute best about America and Americans.
Fuckin' A, bubba.
Oh, come on. "Flock of birds" is a euphemism for "laser guided anti-aircraft missle."
Well, it was a french plane. :rolleyes:
It was 2 flocks of birds.....
It was 2 flocks of birds.....
Mmmm, coordinated attack.
What puzzles me is that they didn't sink a vessel or two on the river - or did they?
Anyway, a big kudos to the crew and captain.
Oh, come on. "Flock of birds" is a euphemism for "laser guided anti-aircraft missle."
Laser guided flock of birds designed by the CIA to bring down another aircraft into the city to blame on a terrorist and raise the threat level to red. The pilot thwarted their attempts.[/tinfoilhat]
Oh, come on. "Flock of birds"
It's those damn pesky Canadian Geese.
This is the excuse we need to invade Canada. We'll need their fresh water eventually. Might as well do it now.
I might support the invasion of Canada to do battle with their so-called 'geese'. Them f*ckers are mean! :mad2:
Oh, come on. "Flock of birds" is a euphemism for "laser guided anti-aircraft missle."
:lol: You've made my day!
I might support the invasion of Canada to do battle with their so-called 'geese'. Them f*ckers are mean! :mad2:
When we lived at Ft. Monmouth, NJ, next to Red Bank, the Geese would use the post as a landing area on the migration, mostly because of the large wide open parade fields. They would crap everywhere, you couldn't even walk down the sidewalks without stepping in the geese grease. Nasty birds. Fun to look at, not so fun to have around.
Saw this on the front pages this morning.
Great rescue effort. Also on the press conference just now, a spokesperson (sorry, I wasn't paying full attention) said that the majority of people were calm and just grateful to be rescued. Wonderful. I'd like to think I'd be the same, rather than having ther screamie-meemies and demanding attention. But if I'd been on a plane that crashed I have a horrible feeling I'd have been in the minority....
Security cam videos have been released. Amazing, amazing job.
[youtube]dFZS7Tbah0A[/youtube]
Subsequent to the splashdown, you see the people standing on the wings, and the plane floating downstream at an alarming rate.
In 50 feet of 32 degree water.
I am, however, uncomfortable with the label "Hero", for the pilot and crew. They did a perfect job, exactly what they had been trained to do. I have nothing but praise for their performance, I still think Hero is not appropriate.
He put her down so smoothly. Amazing.
In 50 feet of 32 degree water.
I am, however, uncomfortable with the label "Hero", for the pilot and crew. They did a perfect job, exactly what they had been trained to do. I have nothing but praise for their performance, I still think Hero is not appropriate.
If he's a hero, then so is everyone who does their job to the best of their ability. I think it fits. Not many people do their jobs that well.
I'm okay with the guy being a hero. I mean, if he'd fucked up severely and killed everyone, he'd sure as hell be a goat.
If he's not a hero, then neither are the marines or soldiers or airforce pilots either.
They're just doing the job they've been trained for.
Wot Ali sed. Bruce, you need to appreciate heroes more, and have some also, and be able to say why. This may be why you and I argue so much. You aren't appreciating some of the things that really make life worth living. Heroism is one of these.
Surely it's just an automatic response which many airlines have in place? I'm sure it'll all be sorted out.
I imagine they recieved the call from CS who probably just had a list of people to call (and might not be too bright) about not using their tickets and the passengers probably went straight to the media with the story rather than go to the airline and put forward their case.
Sensationalism at its worst.
That's it. My next protest song is going to be entitled "Its all about the money".
Please PM me your best examples of insane shit that is done in the name of money.
Surely it's just an automatic response which many airlines have in place? I'm sure it'll all be sorted out.
Yes. Reports are already updated that they're not seeking the cancellation fees after all.
Update
"Spirit Airlines has given the Kolodjay family a full refund and have issued credits to their credit cards. They will not be charged anything by Spirit Airlines.. We applaud everyone involved in bringing these passengers to safety wish the family the best."
Thank the gods that cooler PR heads prevailed.
I think the idiot that called had no idea what that flight # was - just that they didn't use the other ticket and was just following protocol.
If he's not a hero, then neither are the marines or soldiers or airforce pilots either.
They're just doing the job they've been trained for.
That's right. Heroes do more than their job, over and above the line of duty. They are the one's that get medals(sometimes) for extraordinary deeds.
Not sure I agree. I like the everyday kinda heroes much better than those that get the hooraw and fanfare - I find them easier to identify with on one level, and harder to emulate on the other.
A one-off act of bravery can be achieved through instinct alone. A person can in fact be a real shit day-to-day and then redeem themselves by one act of heroism. On the other hand, those that plug away day in and day out in difficult circumstances, don't complain, don't whine about their lot, try to help other people - they are the amazing ones. People that foster troubled children, that hold down three menial jobs to bring up a family, who care for parents who no longer even know who they are, who sit and listen to horrific stories because no-one else will...
The pilot in this story fulfills neither of those criteria I guess. But he did a damned good job in difficult circumstances. He is certainly a credit to his training and his profession. And I'd be very surprised if he didn't receive and award from the relevant body of representatives for that.
I thought his job was to fly the plane from point A to point B. Unless point B was the Hudson river, I think this guy deserves all the accolades he is getting.
I thought his job was to fly the plane from point A to point B. Unless point B was the Hudson river, I think this guy deserves all the accolades he is getting.
But he didn't get to point B.
A one-off act of bravery can be achieved through instinct alone. A person can in fact be a real shit day-to-day and then redeem themselves by one act of heroism.
A hero is defined as someone having done something heroic, but doesn't mean they are not assholes.
On the other hand, those that plug away day in and day out in difficult circumstances, don't complain, don't whine about their lot, try to help other people - they are the amazing ones. [/QUOTE] The amazing ones are called role models and usually means they are not assholes.
Actually, being a role model is harder than being a hero.
being a role model is harder than being a hero.
Very good point, thanks.
Though it partakes of much the same essence. So much so that the one is pretty much the other too.
I think the idiot that called had no idea what that flight # was - just that they didn't use the other ticket and was just following protocol.
In a similar event, a family traveling on AirTrans was making comments such as surprise how close the airplane was to terminal windows. Since they looked Arabic, some lady reported them as suspicious terrorists. They were removed from the plane and questioned. Obviously they discovered to be innocent tourists (I believe headed to Disney World). But they looked Arabic.
They missed their flight. AirTrans refused to put them on any other AirTrans flights. They had to fly US Air AND had to pay full fare. AirTrans refused to reimburse these victims of fear. Thank god we have Fatherland security.
If we had only tortured them. Then maybe we would have found bin Laden.
At least one of them was an American citizen.
We should have waterboarded them. Since that's not torture, it would have been okay.
At least one of them was an American citizen.
We should have waterboarded them. Since that's not torture, it would have been okay.
Good point. Maybe we should waterboard Obama just to see what he knows?
Bush is fair game now too! Oh hell, we all know he don't know nuttin.
Bush will always be blamed for the shit Cheney was doing behind the curtain, unfortunately.
You have to ask yourself if it would have been better or worse had Cheney not been there though.
Better - much better I think.
I'd agree. Bush is instinctively a much better person than Cheney.
Bush will always be blamed for the shit Cheney was doing behind the curtain, unfortunately.
To bad that fact is lost on so many who hate and blame Bush or by proxy all conservatives for anything they disagree with.
Bush will always be blamed for the shit Cheney was doing behind the curtain, unfortunately.
I always thought that was the plan, Bush was the folksy, bumbling, guy people would like to have beer with front man. Electable and manipulable, put up by Cheney, Rove etc. so that they could weild power and deflect responsibility.
The NTSB just released a photo of the suspects who brought down the plane...
You have to ask yourself if it would have been better or worse had Cheney not been there though.
If Cheney was not there, then George Jr would have never been offered the job. We know this relationship from a meeting between Quayle and Cheney eight years ago. Quayle explains the VP job to Cheney. A job full of pomp and image. Cheney then smiled and said, "I have a special relationship with this president."
Every so often, George Jr would decide to act as president. For example, he completely rejected Cheney's list for the Supreme Court. Instead, he nominated his own lawyer - Harriet Myers. So Cheney took revenge. Cheney withdrew all support for that nominee. George quickly had to withdrawal that nomination. This is how Cheney kept his front man in line. This was the special relationship.
Powell made if obvious. After a meeting, the senior staff would leave. Cheney and George Jr would consult for two minutes. Then senior staff would return to be told of "George Jr's" decision.
As Beest noted:
I always thought that was the plan, Bush was the folksy, bumbling, guy people would like to have beer with front man.
So Condi Rice and Wolfovitz spent 18 months before the election teaching George Jr about the world. That was the plan. George Jr was taught the sound byte responses to all questions - to be the front man. Cheney made the decisions.
The movie "W." demonstrates how this worked.
More interesting is how decisions (if any at highest levels) were being made in the last three months. There seems to have been a complete breakdown in that process. Senior staff (ie Paulson and Bernanke) were making decisions independently without any curiosity or coordination from the rest of that administration. Even the Annapolis Conference completely vaporized with virtually no follow up except tepid actions by Condi Rice. It was as if the entire administration had no guidance. Any effort or threat to tow the line appears to have completely disappeared except when George Jr stepped in to change a decision (ie the second TARP request). George Jr apparently had only one objective - to make a smooth transition with Obama.
Events such as no pardon for Libby imply a complete breakdown in leadership in the last three months. What happened in these last three months will make interesting reading.
I'm a bit late, but that pilot isn't a hero. In fact, he's a lousy pilot. If he were any good he would have barrel-rolled his plane through the bird flock and never touched any of them. Then he couldn't even find a bloody airport. Old guy losing his touch. Fire him.
The movie "W." demonstrates how this worked.
So your cite on all this is a movie? ok.
So your cite on all this is a movie?
Obviously not. Maybe 100 different sources are cited. The movie "W." is how the layman can appreciate what hundreds of insiders have been saying for years.
Why would you confuse an example with actual sources?
Maybe 100 different sources are cited.
Why would you confuse an example with actual sources?
tw - are you serious? There is not one cite in that post. Perhaps because the movie is the closest thing to a source provided by tw.
Perhaps tw doesn't know what citing a source is?
He posted his summation of a bits and pieces of information, and speculation, that have been posted on the web and published in a bunch of different publications.
There's probably not one person in the world that knows exactly what went down. The best we can do is add as many pieces of the puzzle as we can find and see how it fits. But that's a hell of a lot of work, like the research good authors do, and the chance of getting 100% right is rarely possible.
That said, we can get a feeling for when the workings of a organization shift direction or seem to have no direction at all.
:headshake
I'd like something - ANYTHING - over "Its true because I said so."
And then when challenged to ignore repeated requests by multiple posters. That doesn't work.
I'd like something - ANYTHING - over "Its true because I said so."
But that is not what you said. You said that you have no knowledge but will accuse anyway.
If you have doubts, then post facts that justify those doubts. You never post any justification for your doubts. It is how you attack others rather than contribute to the discussion.
Meanwhile, what was posted comes repeatedly from many sources who were there - such as Collin Powell. Those who could not bother to read what they said can learn what happened as demonstrated in the movie "W." Posted was what anyone should have or could have read. What Powel, O'Neill, and so many others who were there have said. Said and published.
Moving on from what is known: More interesting is how decisions were being made during those last three months. The process seems to have completely broken down. Senior staff (ie Paulson and Bernanke) were making decisions independently without any curiosity or coordination from the rest of that administration. Even the Annapolis Conference completely vaporized with virtually no consideration or analysis. It was as if the entire administration had no guidance. Any effort to define objectives or 'tow the line' appears to have completely disappeared - except when George Jr stepped in to change a decision (ie the second TARP request).
George Jr apparently had only one objective - to make a smooth transition with Obama. Curious is how and why decision making in the last three months completely broke down.
But that is not what you said.
That is exactly what I said.
You never post any justification for your doubts. It is how you attack others rather than contribute to the discussion.
Total and complete FAIL
The problem is that tw posts his opinions worded to read as facts, then when asked to back the post up with some substance or supporting evidence tw ignores the repeated requests.
The problem is that tw posts his opinions worded to read as facts, then when asked to back the post up with some substance or supporting evidence tw ignores the repeated requests.
I'm curious.... does anyone think this is stating the obvious? Does anyone disagree with this statement?
It goes without saying...
I always thought that was the plan, Bush was the folksy, bumbling, guy people would like to have beer with front man. Electable and manipulable, put up by Cheney, Rove etc. so that they could weild power and deflect responsibility.
Beest, not having a personal immunity to conspiracist thinking is a very bad thing. Makes you say silly things. And misspell
wield. When you're trying to figure out politics, in my experience there's no place for misplaced, overdone romanticism, which is what conspiracy theory is.
When it becomes history, that we have lived through, it's no longer not a conspiracy theory. :eyebrow:
I think Beest is correct. Bush is a puppet. No, wait, was. Bush was a puppet. :D
Every job he's ever had was a puppet for other people(money) that needed a public face.
I'm curious.... does anyone think this is stating the obvious? Does anyone disagree with this statement?
What's ironic is the same twisting occurs by the poster of the "given" statement. This twisting usually ends with a "who ME" innocent ploy.
It's really a horrible dance to watch. I mean seriously, I'd rather go back to doing The Hustle or The Bump.
I think Beest is correct. Bush is a puppet. No, wait, was. Bush was a puppet.
The question asked in jest is actually a serious question of what happened during those last three months. Curious is a pardon for Libby - Cheney's #1 man. Why did Libby not get pardoned? Did George Jr decide to take a swipe at Cheney? Or did Libby get something not often known about - a secret pardon?
Was George Jr still taking orders from Cheney in the last days? A question asked seriously about an administration that appeared to slowly break down during its last three months.
So... are you saying Cheney was a lame-duck vice-president, and because he was on the way out Bush could muck around?
A question asked seriously about an administration that appeared to slowly break down during its last three months.
I think it broke a long time before that.
Ladies and Gentlemen, not long ago Shawnee tried to twit me about not being enough of an individual -- as if she knew anything about it, what with her never rejecting leftist herd-think as far as I know.
Well, dearie, I'm individual enough not to subscribe to the sort of hogwash I'm seeing in posts 67-73. It is the mere clatter of the not-so-democratic-nor-antitotalitarian, and you know what I think of that. Number 74 is just good all-American fun.
That is a funny pic. I wonder what I could put on those bubbles? :D
herd-think. Now that's funny.
Fuckin' Moo, dude!
You're so clever I almost choked on my cud.
Fuckin' Moo, dude!
You know, most of my opponents seem to think that's a telling, convincing response. At any rate, that seems to be what I reduce them to, just by being calm and sensible. From the hollering and thrashing, I'd say they
hate that... and can't get out from under it.
You're so clever I almost choked on my cud.
And did the experience give you an epiphany? I'm betting not yet.
Everyone is your opponent, aren't they?
herd-think. Now that's funny.
Fuckin' Moo, dude!
fuckin' honk, dudette!
I'm curious.... does anyone think this is stating the obvious? Does anyone disagree with this statement?
Well, I've been gone awhile, but way back in the day, TW would made a statement and then post a link to alots of sources, usually the Economist.
In fact, his posts would drone on for days and Radar used to make it a point to post that he didn't read TW's post because it was so long.
I seem to recall some sort of flap right before I left about how TW wasn't really TW and stuff like that, but don't remember much more than that.
Not that it helps, I'm just sayin'.
Everyone is your opponent, aren't they?
The unintelligent, the incapable, those who haven't drunk deeply enough of the Pierian spring -- these are my opposition. Generally the worse they are, the harder they struggle, and the more pitilessly I scourge them. The idea is to cause them to become dissatisfied with the low-quality ideas that they have hitherto been satisfied with, and Lord, do they bray and kick and scream to be allowed to keep their shoddiness.
But the world does not deal kindly with shoddy thinking, does it? Nor does it attend to whiningly expressed preference to retain shoddiness.
No, UT, everyone is not my opponent. Only those people who delight in second-quality philosophies. I'd prefer they seek wisdom. I'm not convinced I'm getting what I'd prefer.